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Comments on: palmOne Releases Tungsten T5 ROM Update

palmOne has released a ROM software update for the Tungsten T5. The update is being issued even before general retail availability and contains some performance enhancements and fixes some known issues.
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Just stating the obvious

statik @ 10/25/2004 3:24:10 PM #
While it would of been nice if the bugs weren't there in the first place, I'm Glad to see that PalmOne took the reported bugs seriously and got this patch out as fast as they did.

How does this compare in the length of time it took them to release the T3 SD card fix?

RE: Just stating the obvious
CaptMyCapt @ 10/25/2004 4:08:27 PM #
Are you serious? This appears to be the proverbial thumb in the dam! If you were to read the posts on this forum by some T5 owners, there are much "bigger fish to fry here." I don't think the T3 came nearly as close, right out of the box with similar major issues as the T5. More specifically, there appears to be horrible issues with 3rd party applications across the board.

I, Captain

"You will never make progress trying to sail into the wind - chart your course!"

RE: Just stating the obvious
statik @ 10/25/2004 5:05:03 PM #
Yup, I'm serious. Perhaps I haven't been paying attention to all of the T5 issues, but besides the ones listed above, any other error I've heard of has been with incompatibilities with 3rd party apps. Now, I'll agree that a fix for those are important, but they also affect far less people than the built in apps do, so it makes sense to release a patch for the built in stuff first.

Besides that, who said this is the ONLY patch that will be released? I've got my money on another patch in the near future to address some of the other issues.

RE: Just stating the obvious
Altema @ 10/25/2004 5:07:51 PM #
Yeah, the T3 problem was expensive to those who lost cards, but it was the only huge issue. They took a few weeks getting the fix together (with a few other bug fixes), but the problem was fixed permanently and never showed its head again.

RE: Just stating the obvious
CaptMyCapt @ 10/25/2004 6:26:08 PM #
Well, Stitik, you might want to go to the discussion forums and take a peek! they are all over this adn other forums.

Why the hell would a PDA be released with multiple problems with INTERNAL apps? What's up with that? Moreover, who buys flagship PDA and only use the built in Apps? I doubt few do. That's why low-end PDAs exist; to care for those who only want the 'basics.' I haven't used a built in app since Noah lent me his PalmPilot. The very life of Palm/PalmOne PDAs depends on the thousands of 3rd party apps. Take a look at PalmGear and other 3rd party app vendors. They've made a business of it. And, the really BIG developers are impacted, such as Datebk5 and the 3rd party launchers.

Sure, more patches will be released (I hope many, for the users' sake), they had better, or the T5 will be totally useless. I may sould like I'm not pro PalmOne. In fact, I'm one of their more staunch avocates . . . well, up to the T3. Now, I am looking over my sholder hoping no one steals my T3 because its the best thing that has happened to business PDAs to date. Sure PalmOne will sell some T5s, first-time users, maybe some who are upgrading from several releases ago, but not much from those who know what PalmOne is (should be) capable of. Many are now looking far past the T5, hoping the company will come around to its past greatness. So There!

I, Captain

"You will never make progress trying to sail into the wind - chart your course!"

RE: Just stating the obvious
mikecane @ 10/26/2004 8:10:18 AM #
"I haven't used a built in app since Noah lent me his PalmPilot."

-- oh, that was marvelous!

RE: Just stating the obvious
statik @ 10/26/2004 10:19:53 AM #
Ah, CaptMyCapt, you do make a good point. These aren't first time TE users we're talking about. I don't use a launcher replacement myself, but If my copy of MobileDB were to die when I upgraded, I'd be the first one in line yelling for a patch.


Just to bring you a different perspective:

Working in the software industry, I've learnt two rules of thumb:

1) Any software that is released will be buggy.*

2) Once you've released software, any patch, no matter what bugs it fixes will result in users telling you that you spent all your effort on the wrong bug.


* Multiply this by 10 fold if things are rushed, under funded or under staffed. Multiply this by 100 fold if moral is in the toilet :)



Crazy 'bout a Mercury
http://clubs.hemmings.com/clubsites/henryshaulers/

RE: Just stating the obvious
statik @ 10/26/2004 10:48:11 AM #
Whoops, forgot rule #3.

3) Any patch is in fact a software release, so see rule #1.

Horribile industry? Isn't it? :)

RE: Just stating the obvious
CaptMyCapt @ 10/26/2004 12:46:59 PM #
Point well-taken, and I apologize for misspelling your 'handle.' Perhaps you've nailed P1's woes because,out of the shoot, the T5 is already much buggier than other models of recent. If I had a hammer . . . (an inside joke with mikecane)

Thanks for the insight.

I, Captain

"You will never make progress trying to sail into the wind - chart your course!"

and it begins...

A Tom B @ 10/25/2004 3:39:42 PM #
better change the review to read "198MB of user accessable memory"...and there's another fix on the pipeline to address 3rd party issues....which should bring the number even lower.
RE: and it begins...
medevilenemy @ 10/25/2004 3:42:06 PM #
uh, that isnt quite right dude.

It is a ROM update, meaning it will write into memory already reserved for the system (remember, the 40mb heap/OS mem?).

so you shouldnt worry about it eating away at user accessable mem. anyway, even if it does, it wouldnt be much and there would still be PLENTY of mem for usage


RE: and it begins...
Altema @ 10/25/2004 5:05:30 PM #
The extra space is for the installer and updates: The updates get pushed into ROM, and the installer gets deleted. No RAM loss in most cases.

Performance Enhancements?

Strider_mt2k @ 10/25/2004 5:14:32 PM #
Does making it work properly really count as a performance enhancement?

RE: Performance Enhancements?
CaptMyCapt @ 10/25/2004 8:25:26 PM #
I guess they are saying there were performance enhancements included IN ADDITION TO the fixes. What performance enhancements were not delineated.

I, Captain

"You will never make progress trying to sail into the wind - chart your course!"

beta testing anyone?

cbowers @ 10/25/2004 11:39:25 PM #
Does PalmOne not do beta testing these days?

RE: beta testing anyone? WAKE UP: You're the beta tester!
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/26/2004 2:26:05 AM #
Has using the consumer to perform beta testing ever hurt Microsoft?

Mr. Nagel and the defence team rest their case.

;-O

Over the past three years it's become apparent that only masochists buy Palm-branded PDAs within their first few months of release. (I should know - I bought one of the early Treo 600!) Palm really should be embarassed about this Tungsten "5" mess. Since these bugs are extremely obvious and there's no way (I hope) Palm would have released the PDA knowing the bugs were there, I would guess that the software was cobbled together within a few days when it became apparent that Cobalt still wasn't yet ready for prime time.

Whatever the real story is, it isn't very flattering to Palm and brings serious questions to mind about the potential risks of switching to Cobalt - assuming Cobalt ever is released. PalmOS 5.2 is stable and does everything I need a PDA OS to do. Why change to a new OS just because something newer is available? Reminds me of why I stuck with Windows 98 when Windows Me came out...



******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: beta testing anyone?
cbowers @ 10/26/2004 2:25:45 PM #
Er, nope. Not currently buying their crap. I was indeed a beta tester for one of the other licensees though, and I know a good amount of went into fixing Palm's (before they split) bugs.

Not to bust your bubble though but Microsoft Beta tests. And after that, they get their developers to, followed by major corporate accounts.

But when you as Microsoft, start with bloated, flawed, swisscheese code, and your testers have long passed the point of fatigue with release after release, beta testing tends to lose it's effectiveness.

RE: beta testing anyone?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/26/2004 10:30:47 PM #
I was indeed a beta tester for one of the other licensees though, and I know a good amount of went into fixing Palm's (before they split) bugs.

May TRG/Handera rest in peace.

Please, a moment of silence for the greatest PDA company ever. Thank you.



******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

PC? Did you mean "PC running Windows"?

JohnM @ 10/26/2004 12:08:45 AM #
"...and a Mac or PC."

Just a note to say that a PC, does not imply "Windows"...


Independent Palm Software Developer

WiFi Driver?

mikecane @ 10/26/2004 8:12:43 AM #
I hope they realzie they still have this on their ToDo list (if it works on the T5!):

1) Do patch for T5 so people can use the palmOne WiFi SD card

That's right before:

2) Release a Cobalt unit that will actually *please* power users

2a) Preferably with no bugs at launch

RE: WiFi Driver?
eston @ 10/26/2004 5:43:36 PM #
Can't you use the PalmOne Wifi SD card on the T5 already?

..: eston
http://www.hyalineskies.com/

SDIO-cards for OS5

specterss @ 10/29/2004 5:07:03 PM #
I just saw Pretec SDIO cards. They look very exciting. GPS, 1.3 MPIX camera, bluetooth, ultraspeed memory cards.. all compatibile with OS5.x..

http://www.pretec.com/product/Product.htm

T5 Update has its own bugs

alijiwani @ 10/30/2004 2:55:40 PM #
Both a friend and I loaded up the update yesterday and now neither of us can transfer large (3MB or 5MB) files to our palm anymore. It choked during the restore operation - everytime it reached those files we would get a 6410 - connection lost error and windows made the sounds like the USB quit and reset and the palm would display a connection error as well. We removed those files from the backup dir and it finished the restore without a problem. We then tried to load the files from the original source and it chokes on it as well. And now we get it where sometimes it just sits and "hotsyncs" the file for hours on end and nothing happens and once you cancle on both pc and t5, the palm locks up and requires a reset.

:( This t5 is turning out to be a nightmare.

Oh and that hard case...its a piece of cheap plastic crap.

RE: T5 Update has its own bugs! WTF is going on with Palm???
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/30/2004 4:36:35 PM #
Oh dear.

Ever heard of beta testing, guys?

An open letter to Nagel, Mace and every Palm employee that reads posts here at Palminfocenter.

You people need to make quality "Job one" (to borrow the old Ford slogan). Palms used to be about simplicity, reliability and quality. Now that you've added features (to match PPC) and outsourced construction to China, Hungary, Mexico, etc, Palm's quality and reliability have nosedived. Your reputation is already suffering, as people are beginning to associate the Palm name with cheap quality. Why destroy seven years of well-earned goodwill and a great reputation by trying to save a couple bucks and cutting corners on design + construction? Once your reputation is lost, nothing will bring it back. Nothing. It's already almost too late to reverse this trend. Remember: there are plenty of alternatives now available if Palm can no longer execute.

Who's responsible for Quality Control at Palm? Why are standards so low? Do you even care? Do you even use these devices? Have you noticed how poorly constructed Palms now seem to be compared to competing Sony, HP, Dell, Tapwave and Garmin models? Do you think people will blindly keep buying poor quality goods? How stupid do you feel your customers are?

Is one of your Board members a saboteur secretly working for Microsoft?


Signed,
A longtime Palm user




******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: T5 Update has its own bugs
mikecane @ 10/31/2004 10:31:25 AM #
>>>Oh and that hard case...its a piece of cheap plastic crap.

Jesus, can't p1 do *anything* right anymore?

Let's see how the screwed up the new Treo...

RE: T5 Update has its own bugs
rcartwright @ 10/31/2004 3:39:16 PM #
mikecane said:
>Jesus, can't p1 do *anything* right anymore?

Let's see how the screwed up the new Treo...<

Mike I would say that P1 has customer frustration down pat.

Rick C

RE: T5 Update has its own bugs
alijiwani @ 11/2/2004 5:49:40 PM #
update to my previous post:

PalmOne has deep-sixed my Palm, and I have submitted for an RMA. The update appears to break other things including a now total 10 minute reset. The technical support people made me perform a hard reset and seemed a little quick to rule the unit defective. I don't know about Palm as this is my first serious issue with a Palm device, but I have never had a company be soo willing to RMA a brand new device. I have had this problem confirmed by the others I know with these new devices that all used the T5 Update. Anyone else heard about this problem or can comment on it?

RE: T5 Update has its own bugs
nukediver @ 6/24/2005 9:34:09 AM #
I too have had nothing but problems when I tried to install this update yesterday. I wasted a whole afternoon on it :-b

I synced everything just fine, and downloaded the zip file, ran the installer and whammo, things got stuck in this loop of wiping everything out, hotsyncing to restore, and then wiping everything out, etc. etc. When I manually cancelled the hot sync on both the desktop and the Palm (because that seemed to be the only way to get it to stop), I was able to access the Palm and see that things were restored as they should have been. So I decided to also delete the ROM Updater on the Palm, thinking that maybe it would stop initializing every time the device restarted itself. I was wrong.

Even after I thought I had deleted the ROM Updater off of my PC, it STILL got into the same loop. Finally, by the end of the day I uplugged it in disgust, threw it in my bag, and pulled out my Zire 72, which still works fine, thank you very much. I will be calling tech support to tell them what a piece of crap this is, unless there is something really stupid I am forgetting to do. Any thoughts?

T5 crashes all the time, cannot update

MEP @ 3/27/2006 9:37:13 PM #
Ever since I received my T5 (about a year ago) it has been crashing many times a day. Now recently for the first time it kicked out my email setting and that is when I felt I need to do something about it. So I was hoping that the ROM update would eliviate the problem. First I cannot even determine what ROM version I have. That thing with period and 9 in a new memo does not give me a date at all. I then installed the update program in the application folder of my Palm as advised and tried to launch it from within my internal drive. Each time I am getting the following error message: Fatal Exception plus a reset button and I need to hard restart. Only one time I received a "please wait" message and after a while a "not enough space to install this software from the card" (I have more than 40MB free space on the T5). Any help?

The Palm OS on my T5 is given as PalmOS Garnet v. 5.4.5.

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