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Comments on: palmOne Delivers T5 WiFi Drivers, PhoneLink Update

palmOne has posted two new support downloads today. Drivers for the T5 to enable the palmOne WIFi SD card and an update to the bluetooth PhoneLink updater utility.
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T5 Wi-Fi Range and Battery Life

kpr @ 11/30/2004 5:10:45 PM #
Has anyone had a chance to test this out on a palmOne Tungsten T5 yet???

How is the Wi-Fi range, especially compared to a TC?

How long does the battery last while using the Wi-Fi SD Card?

RE: T5 Wi-Fi Range and Battery Life
I.M Anonymous @ 11/30/2004 9:12:09 PM #
The T5 doesn't have Wi-Fi. These drivers enable it to use the Wi-Fi SD card, which is reviewed in the link above. Range of the card should be the same for all devices. Read the review.

RE: T5 Wi-Fi Range and Battery Life
PalmOne Guru @ 12/1/2004 11:48:16 AM #
I set it up on my demo T5 and it didn't seeem to impact the battery to much though I only had it on for about an hour. I worked very well I had it doing wireless hotsyncs through the wifi and browsing pages in less then 5 min.

any benefit to T3 owners?

sremick @ 11/30/2004 5:14:53 PM #
So if we already have a T3 with a WiFi card working, are there any improvements with this updated driver?

Posted via T3+WiFi

http://vtbsd.net/winhelp/

RE: any benefit to T3 owners?
palmdoc88 @ 12/1/2004 7:03:43 AM #
Good question. I am tempted but if it ain't broke.....
I am hoping for a "smarter" driver which will automatically disable Bluetooth when you turn on the Wifi. But I doubt if palmOne has done the obvious yet :(

T3 user
RE: any benefit to T3 owners?
T. @ 12/1/2004 9:34:44 AM #
Nope, doesn't do that.

It does appear to connect a little better / faster but that is a totally unsubstantiated statement. I jump around on a lot of access points on different networks and occasionally have some trouble. So far this one has not had any and during the last day I have been on most of the networks that I use.

RE: any benefit to T3 owners?
sremick @ 12/1/2004 9:41:41 AM #
Well I haven't had WiFi on my T3 long enough to probably notice any subtle benefits from the updated driver. But since at least one person installed it and it worked, I'll probably just do it anyway for the warm fuzzy feeling.

http://vtbsd.net/winhelp/

Bleh

tthiel @ 11/30/2004 6:06:28 PM #
So for only $578, (T5, Wi-fi card, Cradle) you can have something with about half the features of a Dell V50x Pocket PC for only $150 more than the Dell! Way to go Palm.

RE: Bleh
dhchung @ 11/30/2004 7:27:17 PM #
Please compare apple with apple.
dell is PPC based. did you count how many times more palm program there are?
Did you consider how heavy and how big the dell is?
After all, is wifi really an important feature of everyone? To my understanding, No.
and pls check out the street price of T5. it's just about $150 cheaper than the x50v. lol

RE: Bleh
fierywater @ 11/30/2004 8:42:58 PM #
Tungsten T5 size: 4.76" x 3.08" x 0.61", 5.1 oz
Dell X50v size: 4.7" x 2.9" x .7", 6.2 oz

Yeah, that looks a lot bigger to me. Nearly identical dimensions, with the X50v only being slightly thicker and slightly heavier, to the point that few would notice or care.

Tungsten T5 lowest online price: $333, so about $70 less than retail. Take $70 away from the tthiel's price of a T5 with cradle and WiFi, and you're down to the low price of...$508.

Dell X50v price: $424. Built-in WiFi, higher resolution screen.

It's apples to apples if both devices are meant for the same purpose, which no intelligent person could deny.

As for Palm versus Pocket PC programs, if you do a true apples to apples comparison by comparing Palm programs actually maintained and optimized for ARM processors versus maintained PPC programs compatible with WM2003, the count would be nearly even. Yes, there's a million old OS4 programs, but you can crash an OS5 device faster than a Windows ME computer with half of them.

And look at the number of people complaining that the T5 doesn't have WiFi. PalmOne doesn't get it. I'm not going to go into an OS versus OS comparison, as I see them as equal. But PalmOne had an opportunity to blow us away with the T5, and failed. Miserably.

RE: Bleh
superdork @ 11/30/2004 9:41:14 PM #
I'd have to agree with fly on this one. I have a Dell sitting in front of me and i've held and played with the T5. The two devices for intents and purposes are equally sized.
This is the problem I am having with P1 rigth now. They used to offer something special in their devices, wether that be pocketablility, higher resolution(not too long ago), or stability.
All those points have been taken away in the T5 and they have removed features common to just about every device out there, and to top it all off they priced it as a high end unit!
When as big a fan of the Palm OS as I am has a Dell X50V as his main unit, Palm is falling WAAAAY short.

RE: Bleh
superdork @ 11/30/2004 9:44:42 PM #
One thing I might add though. When it comes to Pocket PC manufacturers, they really get on my nerves with these annoying slip covers. This alone is driving me nuts and may sway the size argument. I've looked over the dell and can't find any way; short of using velcro; to attache a flip cover to it.

RE: Bleh
dsaroff @ 11/30/2004 10:09:17 PM #
OK...So, Palm sucks...Palm stinks. Everything they produce is rubbish. Long live, PPC. Get a life!

Jeez. They released a WIFI driver for the T5. So, now a T5 can have WIFI. Should it have WIFI built in...sure. But it DOESN'T. Get over it!

I've seen less acrimony about the Presidential campaign.

RE: Bleh
skeezix @ 12/1/2004 12:21:44 AM #
Just to be contrarian..

(Yes, I know the T|T5 is missing vibro-alarms (vibrolarms?), my support box is full of T|T5 device bugs ;)

But lets just get down to it -- PalmOne and PalmSource still have a pretty good thing going; sure, the T|T5 doesn't offer a lot over the T|T3 (and loses a few things), but if you're looking for a new PDA, the T|T5 is a pretty good bet. Gorgeous screen, decent size, fast processor, good softare bundle, etc etc. Look at it for what it is, and not in relatoin to hat it could have been.. (at least for now.) If you've got a T|T3 or TH55 you don't need to look again (until your digitizer gets shot!)...

Flash ram is *great* for the Treo 650 I'd say; for the T|T5 it'd be nice if they'd used a larger cache chip and provided as much heap RAM as a T|T3 has, but they didn't.. but then again, most people wouldn't notice. Its got a few glitches.. fine. (Well more than a few....) They'll fix most of them. I'm sure you're used to glitches in this world these days.. PalmOne is not alone there.

Once they fix up a few bugs (sector sizing, speed of cache perhaps, etc.), it'll be pretty sweet.

Its the flagship PDA (not smartphone) for PalmOne; compare to the Axim if you will and the Axim wins hands down for hardware value, but its still Pocket PC (you can debate that if you will.) But then compare to the top of the iPaq's.. that new one with the pseudo-glidepoint-mouse on the bottom.. we're talking *tall*.. won't fit in my jeans pocket! Then compare to e800 Toshiba.. same problem.. way too tall. I think the Axim X50 and X50v are pretty good balances, but the other top line PoPC's are missing something badlyin the ergonomics department (but then again, they may wellbe targetted to those who don't mind tall bricky devices.)

Naturally, everyone has to pick what best suits their needs, but I still think PalmOne knows something well -- they know how to make some pretty good mix and match "lots of what people *need* and still fit in your pocket and look attractive". So if you need Pocket PC, go PoPC; if you need Palm, go Palm; if you need a new PAlmOne device.. the T|T5 is pretty good stuff. So its not all that you wanted... what could be?

It *is* depressing to hear so many people talking about switching camps but it works both ways; people are sarming to the PalmOne smartphones, a lot of people sure love their T|E (and presumably their T|E2's if my inbox is anything to say about it). Others who've beed waiting for Wifi so bad it hurts have either moved to T|C, gotten the SDIO card, or moved to Pocket PC; they'll be happy where they go I'm sure, but its for each person to decide..

I'm sticking with my T|T3 baby, but when the Treo 650 comes to Canada I'm jumping in front of that train.

jeff

(If the above makes no sense or shames me, I justify it by being up for far too many hours while being paged constantly.... frazlled! ;)

The Shadow knows!

RE: Bleh
Zippy @ 12/1/2004 1:30:58 AM #
Oh nooo, not again...the whiners are out in full force. Get a PPC and go away.

This post is about the Wifi drivers.

I'm starting to think that all these whiners are paid by someone, MS or the hardware manufacturers to kill Palm's supremacy.

Let it go and move on. Hopefully to PPC sites. Just go away...

BTW the T5 is the best unit ever put out by Palm! This is my opinion and hopefully I can express it freely.

RE: Bleh
svrontis @ 12/1/2004 2:30:44 AM #
skeezix,

Thanks for the thoughtful post. Can't wait for the next version of ShadowPlan (handheld).

(From a grateful admirer of your work.)

RE: Bleh
AdamaDBrown @ 12/1/2004 3:03:11 AM #
fireywater, the X50v is 0.62" thick, not 0.7". Just FYI.

zippy, like it or not, comparing PalmOne's flagship model to the competition's is a valid discussion. You're dismissing the complaintants as trolls or plants without actually thinking about their points. A blissfully Palm-centric website doesn't make the T5 any more competitive.

RE: Bleh
mikecane @ 12/1/2004 8:57:20 AM #
>>>Yes, there's a million old OS4 programs, but you can crash an OS5 device faster than a Windows ME computer with half of them.

Yeah. What he said.

(Although SmartDOC, an obsolete **OS3** program, still runs on my TE. But the Find feature, which OS*4* broke, still doesn't work. Hence, I bought MiniWrite just to do Finds...)

RE: Bleh
tthiel @ 12/1/2004 11:58:16 AM #
The Palm apologists are having to really stretch on this one...they sound like all the Republicans who say if you don't like Bush you should leave the country. I'm sure Palm loves the T5 fanboys who let Palm do their thinking for them. Don't complain, just buy whatever Palm decides to let you have. If you think that atittude is good for the Palm community think again. Then take a look at the sales numbers for this year and think one more time.

RE: Bleh
RhinoSteve @ 12/1/2004 1:23:47 PM #
That 1.1 oz difference in weight really makes a difference between the Axim and the T5. While the T5 is "missing features" who is buying it for all of these features? Wankers on this web site, but not many else.

PDAs follow more consumer electronic trends and not desktop computer "feature hounds." Thus, those who really pay the bills for PalmOne are buying the unit well as shown in the latest market stats.

RE: Bleh
halcyon @ 12/1/2004 5:03:17 PM #
To have a fair price comparison, you should add $30-40 to the Dell x50v for a decent Docs2Go type program.

RE: Bleh
fierywater @ 12/1/2004 9:41:00 PM #
Did I whine? No. Did I declare PPC to be all-powerful and superior to the Palm OS? No. I gave a device-to-device comparison to someone who I thought was being one-track minded and somewhat ignorant.

For whatever purpose, I might as well add that I don't consider the T|5 to be a terrible device. It's a logical evolution; with the exception of WiFi and PalmSource's inability to get OS6 out in a reason amount of time, it's really a good device.

You see user backlash here, and to be honest, it's mostly the people here who are the ones paying $400+ for PDAs. People who are going to spend that much on one of these are generally going to want WiFi and other enhanced features. The PDA market hasn't lent itself to the common person as well as we all seem to have thought; us geeks, if I may use the term, are a large number of the prospective buyers.

So yeah, WiFi drivers. Good for PalmOne, good for T|5 owners.

RE: Bleh
fierywater @ 12/1/2004 9:48:44 PM #
By the way, I still think that PalmOne has the best smartphone line in the Treo series. The Treo 650, despite the memory issues, has the best balance of formfactor and features. Granted, I'm probably buying an Audiovox 6600 as soon as I can get it from VZW, but that's only for lack of a Treo 650 coming to us within the next 6 months.

Also, I agree with the person who said HP and Toshiba have clunky, downright bad PDA designs. In my opinion, neither of them have anything worth buying in the PPC market. The Pocket Loox, the Axim x50V, and whatever Asus has are the only devices with good formfactors on the PPC side.

RE: Bleh
Zippy @ 12/1/2004 10:19:46 PM #
"The Palm apologists are having to really stretch on this one...they sound like all the Republicans who say if you don't like Bush you should leave the country."

If you don't like Palm, go to PPC and stay in the same country. You PPC lovers are really stretching it with a lame analogy like that. Switching from Palm to PPC is nothing like leaving your country.

" I'm sure Palm loves the T5 fanboys who let Palm do their thinking for them. Don't complain, just buy whatever Palm decides to let you have."

I've got nothing to complain about,...duh, You are the one who is unhappy not me. The T5 is a machine custom made for me, it's almost as though Palm was reading my mind! I chose the T5: I could have just as well chosen any number of PDAs including PPC. I'm rich, I don't have any restraints on my spending and I chose a T5. To use a political analogy, which you may appreciate, I think the problem is that you a tyrant of sorts who will not accept dissent and opposing views to your own. You are adamant that you are right in your opinions and that everyone should agree with you.

"If you think that atittude is good for the Palm community think again. Then take a look at the sales numbers for this year and think one more time."

The sales numbers will be just fine without the geeks. Palm is not about Geeks.

BTW is it too much to ask you whiners to stick to the topic rather than rant and rave and lead everyone off topic? Just make a post on your favorite user group and invite all the other whiners to vent there instead of wandering the web messing up discussion groups with your complaints.


7MB is a bit too much IMO

vesther @ 11/30/2004 6:26:42 PM #
7MB is just way too much for a driver IMO. I'm just gonna wait until palmOne releases an "Efficiency and Bug Fix" Flash ROM Update for the Tungsten T5 before going any further. I can just share my Laptop's Internet Connection through Bluetooth and Missing Sync for Palm OS for now.

Powered by Palm OS since March 2002
RE: 7MB is a bit too much IMO
Strider_mt2k @ 11/30/2004 6:38:08 PM #
The article says that the installer takes up that much space.
I'm pretty sure the driver itself won't be that big.

At least I hope not!
Why would some special installer be required I wonder?

RE: 7MB is a bit too much IMO
pmjoe @ 11/30/2004 6:40:22 PM #
"to accommodate the TEMPORARY installer"

RE: 7MB is a bit too much IMO
Admin @ 11/30/2004 7:10:59 PM #
I don't have the wifi card so I can't test myself to see how much actual space the driver takes. Can anyone else chime in?

Like the others have said you just need 7MB free to install the driver, then the app deletes itself after it runs. It does not take up 7MB of space.

RE: 7MB is a bit too much IMO
T. @ 11/30/2004 9:45:15 PM #
Unless I am missing something it is about 440k. That is all the hidden files that start with WiFi, wl55_primary_FL (6K), w155_secondar (62k), Z72 WiF stuff (1k), T3 Wifi stuff (13k), T5 Wifi stuff (1k) and the WiFI Setup and VPN Setup.



Zire 31 -- Ignored, unfortenetly
dmacdonald95 @ 11/30/2004 9:45:28 PM #
"notably absent in this update is support for the Treo 650 smartphone"

They oughta try supporting, say, the Zire 31. Why does Palm only do things like WiFi SD cards that are compatible on their higher-end models? Let people jump in the Zire trap. They buy a Palm Zire 31-compatible SD WifiCard, but want more range after they find out Palm wrote the driver to limit the WiFi range. They purcahse a T|3 so they can get a lot better range, of course, they already spent the money on the first WiFi Card, so Palm people have their paycheck, not to mention they bought the Z31 & The T|3, so what's preventing them from making a Zire 31 SD WiFi Card to make more money? I mean heck, I'd buy it, even though I am only a (student), at 14.

Palm Zire -> Palm Zire 31

RE: 7MB is a bit too much IMO
hkklife @ 11/30/2004 10:44:42 PM #
The vast majority of Zire users (any model Zire) have no desire or even knowledge of things like wi-fi on a handheld. Leave it up to Sandisk (or Cguys) to possibly support a Zire 72 or possibly a Zire31 down the road with a 3rd party SDIO card. Sandisk already has a card that supports the old Zire 71 so anything's possible down the road.



RE: 7MB is a bit too much IMO
vesther @ 11/30/2004 10:48:19 PM #
I have to agree that palmOne should start having some of their SDIOs made by themselves support the lower-end models such as the Zire 31. Man, palmOne would have better sales if their lower-end models were feature-rich and/or their SDIOs had unconditional support for the lower-end models.

Powered by Palm OS since March 2002
RE: 7MB is a bit too much IMO
mikecane @ 12/1/2004 8:59:49 AM #
>>>Like the others have said you just need 7MB free to install the driver

"just 7MB free" -- maniacal laughter. On the 32MB TE, I haven't had that much free space since maybe Day Three of using it.

They've got to offer an alternate way of doing things. I have 500K free RAM on the TE right now. If this was for the TE, would they expect me to hard reset just to install the damned thing and then go through the torment -- and it *is* that! -- of putting everything back on? (Actually, I'd have to *dump* stuff, if the installed files take up app 400K as someone stated above. As free RAM decreases, instability increases!)

RE: 7MB is a bit too much IMO
hkklife @ 12/1/2004 9:15:23 AM #
Vesther & others:

It's all the age-old marketing game. Intentionally omit or "cripple" features at the lower end of your lineup in order to push buyers to the next model higher up. Car companies & electronic manufacturers have been doing this for decades.

I really cannot begrudge P1 for leaving that support out of Z31 & T|E if it really does come down to a power management issue or something. If it's simply a driver issue--well then, do you expect any different from P1?

Now the lack of OS5 drivers for their old Bluetooth card, that's entirely P1's fault. They just want to push the remaining m5xx users to a newer BT model such as the Z72 or T5.

RE: 7MB is a bit too much IMO
LiveFaith @ 12/2/2004 3:07:47 PM #
hkk,

I think the Z72 is already compatible with PalmOne's WiFi card. Correct?

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

Out of Topic

tmuralli @ 11/30/2004 11:24:10 PM #
Hi, I think you guys are going ouy of topic, the news is not sbout PPC vs Palm.

But no matter what Palm has the edge especiallt in terms of User Friendly. I think that is the most important here.

Murali

RE: Out of Topic
tthiel @ 12/1/2004 12:00:52 PM #
Then don't read the comments. Nobody put a gun to your head. I thnk it's very much on topic that Palm has such an inferior solution. Seen the new HP's announced today?

RE: Out of Topic
just_little_me @ 12/2/2004 6:51:42 AM #
P1ss off back to PPC land you moronic troll...!


JLM.

Some advice?

DCE @ 12/1/2004 11:18:20 AM #
When I decided to go to graduate school, I had to give my beautiful laptop back to my employer. I replaced it - to an extent - with a Palm Tungsten E. I received some great advice with regard to applications and wireless keyboards, but now I'm looking to upgrade. The lack of wireless connectivity is something I really miss. I'm considering the Tungsten T5 and a wireless card, but have read mixed reviews. Would I be better off shopping for a used Sony UX 50? Some other model?

I use a Mac running OS X, so I'd prefer to stick with a Palm based device. I've heard that there are syncing options available for Windows CE devices, but the thought of it runs against my brushed metal grain. Are there Linux models I might consider?

My goal is to invest in a device that allows me to take notes and keep organized as I do now, but also to connect to wireless networks and perhaps sync with my computer via Bluetooth.

Thanks!

RE: Some advice?
tthiel @ 12/1/2004 12:02:03 PM #
I use a Mac at home and sync with Pocket Mac. Palm is abandoning the Mac market so your going to have to buy Missing Sync sooner or later anyway.

RE: Some advice?
Caspian @ 12/1/2004 2:36:20 PM #
I use my Sony TH55 with the KB-100 keyboard at work all the time. It is a great solution for me.

RE: Some advice?
Mausoleum @ 12/1/2004 11:06:03 PM #
Get a T3 + BT phone. If you are frequently somewhere with WiFi, consider getting the WiFi card. T5 has no signficant advantages over T3, but:

plastic instead of metal
no voice recorder
no vibration alarm
75USD more expensive
No more UC connector (might not matter to you)

MST

Cellphone compatibility

dave_rein @ 12/1/2004 11:25:17 AM #
I have just checked the list of phones and there is a rider about PhoneLink Updater not providing certain functionality to selected Nokia phones. I have a 6230 and this means no SMSing from my Palm (which, admittedly, has been the case since I upgraded my phone from a 6310i).

What's up with this? Surely infra-red/BT sms's from Palm to phone is sufficiently straight-forward that I should expect it as standard functionality?

--------------------------
Tungsten T|3, Nokia 6230
Johannesburg, South Africa

ARRGGG - No Motorola v710 driver !

talos4 @ 12/1/2004 2:47:58 PM #

The v710 is the *ONLY* BT enabled phone supported by Verizon, THE LARGEST carrier in the U.S.

Good way to drive aways sales.

At the rate that they upate phonelink, it could be 6-10 months before we see another update.

-R

RE: ARRGGG - No Motorola v710 driver !
hkklife @ 12/1/2004 3:04:09 PM #
No Treo 650 support from Sprint either. So both of the CDMA carriers with huge coverage maps and installed user bases, remain ignored by P1. Absolutely sickening. Isn't this the first PhoneLink updater we've seen since the T3's launch?

You're right about the huge delay between updates. I'd at least like to see P1 add a support page to their site on a reliable way to manually configure the T|Tx/Z72/T5 to connect to Verizon's Express Network via BT on the V710.

Eh...some Phonelink update

Candygogo @ 12/1/2004 5:04:31 PM #
Still no update for the NGage (don't laugh!) or Nokia 6800? I can barely see that many new added phones that are supported.



According to the schedule on my pda/phone/gps/multimedia center with built in rice cooker, the Gadget Addicts Anonymous meeting is in 30 minutes.

RE: Eh...some Phonelink update
radleyp @ 12/1/2004 5:33:44 PM #
There is a Nokia 6820 driver, though it is of limited value, as I can still not dial or send SMS (the site notes the latter). Philippe Radley

RE: Eh...some Phonelink update
Candygogo @ 12/1/2004 10:09:41 PM #
Yea, I noticed the 6820 driver, but I have a 6800 phone--don't know how well that driver would work. Oh well, at least I still have my 3650 so I won't be totally a$$ed out.



According to the schedule on my pda/phone/gps/multimedia center with built in rice cooker, the Gadget Addicts Anonymous meeting is in 30 minutes.

RE: Eh...some Phonelink update
alanjrobertson @ 12/2/2004 3:30:38 PM #
They also seem to refer to lots of new phones that they support (e.g the T630), but then still just have the T68i listed in the zip file!

Alan

RE: Eh...some Phonelink update
T. @ 12/2/2004 3:58:00 PM #
phones.txt defines a bunch of phones that use the UPDD.prc file, including the T630.

Drivers & SD Wifi card

srhjacks @ 12/2/2004 9:56:59 AM #
Does anyone know if the new Palm drivers have any impact on the SanDisk Wifi card? I bought one of those on the promise it would someday work with the T3 and obviously have been severely disappointed.

RE: Drivers & SD Wifi card
Strider_mt2k @ 12/2/2004 10:41:47 AM #
Don't buy products based on promises.

Buy based on performance.

RE: Drivers & SD Wifi card
srhjacks @ 12/2/2004 12:19:23 PM #
I bought the SanDisk Wifi card because I also happen to have a PPC that I only use with a very specific piece of equipment. My hope was someday that the wifi card would also work with the T3 and I could get double the bang for my buck. I got what I paid for. I'd never buy something that didn't work in the first place.

RE: Drivers & SD Wifi card
Strider_mt2k @ 12/2/2004 1:54:16 PM #
Ahhh, thank you for the clarification.

Yes, I too would be upset by this, were I in your situation.

Zodiac can now do WiFi!

mikecane @ 12/2/2004 6:11:54 PM #
http://www.tapwave.com/titles_connectivity.html

-- and you can use the SANDISK WIFI SD too!

RE: Zodiac can now do WiFi!
Strider_mt2k @ 12/3/2004 10:53:16 AM #
This story should have been featured here on PIC by now.


Why PPC is Better Here

Gekko @ 12/3/2004 8:26:28 AM #

More standardization among PPC devices, hence more drivers, accessories works with each device.

RE: Why PPC is Better Here
Altema @ 12/3/2004 11:11:42 PM #
I see that you have never dealt with PPC's on very large corporate networks using LEAP...

Pain in the rear, I forget how many device combinations we went through to get one that worked reliably with the security protocols and roaming.

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