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Comments on: Dmitry Grinberg Gets C&D'd by Palm

Well known independent Palm OS developer Dmitry Grinberg, has received what purports to be a 'cease and desist' letter from Fenwick & West, LLP, a Bay Area law firm that represents Palm Inc.

The letter demands that Grinberg: (1) rename his website (formerly PalmPowerups.com) and (2) rename PalmSDHC in order to avoid "consumer confusion." The letter claims that because the product and website contains the word "Palm" it is "likely to give customers and potential customers the erroneous impression that your company has a relationship with Palm, or that the information and products provided on your site have been authorized for release or approved by Palm."

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PlmInfoCenter

mikecane @ 8/14/2008 11:35:11 AM # Q
Has a sort of ring.

RE: PlmInfoCenter
Rastick @ 8/14/2008 11:56:07 AM # Q
A better pair of suggestions
GarnetInfoCenter
GarnetSDHC
or
SDHCforPalm


Using Palm at the start of the name is a good way to run foul of trademark law.

RE: PlmInfoCenter
hkklife @ 8/14/2008 12:23:16 PM # Q
I'd go with "www.pdapowerups.com" personally

or, like Rastick says, just do a "SDHC" type of name solely for the SDHC driver/app.

Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p

RE: PlmInfoCenter
SeldomVisitor @ 8/14/2008 12:56:54 PM # Q
http://www.mobileinfocenter.com/

'Bout time the OTHER sites got some lip service.

RE: PlmInfoCenter
LiveFaith @ 8/14/2008 2:13:29 PM # Q
I was thinking more along the lines of ...

Palm_USR_3Com_Handspring_Palmsource_PalmOne_OrangeBlobPalm_NearlyMotoOS_ALPOS_NovaCollapse.com

... but that might be too long, so maybe ...

BowlOfSpaghettiFanBoys.com might be better? I don't know.

Pat Horne

RE: PlmInfoCenter
BaalthazaaR @ 8/14/2008 3:08:31 PM # Q
How about POSInfoCenter? after all Palm OS = POS = Piece of S...
RE: PlmInfoCenter
ocspub @ 8/14/2008 5:33:41 PM # Q
How about F***PalmInfoCenter... oh, right, *** isn't allowed in a domain name. Guess you've got to substitute some characters...

Visit www.tapland.com for Zodiac news and discussion.
RE: PlmInfoCenter
mikecane @ 8/14/2008 5:49:37 PM # Q
Of course, Palm could always change THEIR name.

How about FAIL?

RE: PlmInfoCenter
joad @ 8/15/2008 10:33:13 AM # Q
Palm Springs, Palm Beach, and Palmolive - you are ON NOTICE!!!


Paying my annual PDA update tax to Palm since 1997.
RE: PlmInfoCenter
SeldomVisitor @ 8/15/2008 10:45:20 AM # Q
> Palm Springs, Palm Beach, and Palmolive - you are ON NOTICE!!!

Forbes has some auto-stock-ticker-finding software built into its financial news site.

This article:

- http://tinyurl.com/palmforbes

got posted under the PALM stock ticker because of this:

== "...a lunch at The Palm restaurant..."

Giggle.

RE: PlmInfoCenter
jfme @ 8/15/2008 1:41:04 PM # Q
This guys are next:

http://www.thepalm.com/

RE: PlmInfoCenter
hkklife @ 8/15/2008 1:46:45 PM # Q
The difference between Palm & The Palm?

The Palm:
http://www.thepalm.com/index.cfm?page_id=257

A-list celebrities paying to enjoy The Palm's fine dining


Palm:

blog.palm.com

D-list celebrities being paid to post for pictures while holding Centros & Palm swag

http://blog.palm.com/palm/2008/01/access-hollywoo.html

Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p

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Palm should give Dmitry the Company

Caspian @ 8/14/2008 11:49:51 AM # Q
At least he cares whether Palm's hardware and software work correctly. Rather than be concerned that people might confuse his site and products with theirs, Palm should try to confuse his site products with theirs. Palm's customer satisfaction level would go up. It might also improve their stock price.

David
Palm III> Palm IIIx> Palm IIIc> Sony T615> Sony T665> Sony TH55> Palm TX
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Shame on Palm!!!!

WenSes @ 8/14/2008 11:58:27 AM # Q
I can't believe that palm do anything against dmitry... It's simply incredible... They made an OS that nowadays it's outdated and several pda's and smartphones that has a lot of failures... and now they bother the only guy that has made something to fix their mistakes???.

This kind of behavior allow us to distinguish between a company that is managed by real leaders or just a bunch of idiots. This shows the lack of good criteria that is making palm failing as company.

Well, dmitry, all my support from here!

RE: Shame on Palm!!!!
hkklife @ 8/14/2008 12:20:54 PM # Q
I am dismayed but unfortunately not the least bit surprised by this.

I've long maintained that Palm is nowadays run by beancounters, spin maestros, smoke & mirrors charlatans and marketing types. There's not a whit of innovating, engineering, or "customer delighting" individuals left there.

In case anyone's forgotten, a few quick examples to job everyone's memory:

-Palm wanted everyone to quickly forget about Graffiti 1 and acted like it never existed once the Zire 71 & T|C appeared.

-Palm tried their damndest to deny any difference between Hungarian & USA-made m505s despite plenty of evidence to the contrary.

-Then Palm wanted everyone to quickly forget about PDAs once the Treo 650 and 700-series appeared, along with trying to make everyone forget that screen resolutions higher than 320x320 exist under Palm OS (thus the constantly changing DIA code etc) as well as wi-fi.

-Now Palm are trying to overlook the fact that memory cards larger than 4 gigs exist, so of course they are going to try to aggravate Dmitry. The C&D letter materializes alongside Dmitry's beta release and the (likely) impending EOL of Palm's remaining handhelds. Thus the lack of support both in-house and the crackdown on guys like Dmitry who are trying to make up for Palm's shortcomings and make a few $ in the process.

Palm only cares about what's the newest/latest/hottest thing from them. Were it not for carrier pressures, I can guarantee you that they'd NEVER release any ROM patches or fixes. The Centro might be TODAY's hotness (at the expense of the Treo 755p/680 etc) but in a few months when those new low-cost WinMob smartphones come out, it'll be yesterday's stale fish as far as Palm's concerned.

P.S. Anyone still think Nova is real and is going to be finished in the next 90-120 days?

Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p

RE: Shame on Palm!!!!
LiveFaith @ 8/14/2008 3:21:15 PM # Q
Palm rounded up the undesirables a few years back too, then just decided to let it go. Apple culture may be to strong this time. This is om par with the Continental Congress accusing Ben Franklin of treason. Dmitry is about the only + thing left of the Palm economy. Baffling!

Pat Horne
RE: Shame on Palm!!!!
joad @ 8/15/2008 10:39:54 AM # Q
Dmitry is one of the few people remaining doing something to SAVE Palm from its own stupidity. Of course he must be stopped.

If Palm had any brains left there they'd be hiring the guy to run their OS6 team rather than just making legal potshots at him. They could buy up his URL registration in the bargain.

Of course, Palm has devolved into a company that seems to spend all their energy flying to Redmond for OS releases and visiting Toys-R-Us' Fisher-Price aisles for the majority of their styling and design cues. And learning how to treat customers with all the sensitivity of a "Best" Buy receipt nazi.


Paying my annual PDA update tax to Palm since 1997.

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I'm sure there are two side to this...

CFreymarc @ 8/14/2008 12:06:23 PM # Q
This is either a final effort of Palm to keep their trademark in order or sheer lunacy of some paralegal that got enough signatures from people too busy to realize what they are doing.

I would like to know if and what communication there was before this came about. Anyone have a public blog that can show the blow by blow on this one?

RE: I'm sure there are two side to this...
Rastick @ 8/14/2008 12:36:10 PM # Q
The bigger question is why Palm let this go on so long.

From my understanding of trademark law, Palm are doing the right thing and have to press their case to avoid losing control of the trademark.

A C&D is the least nasty approach they can take, and that should only require Dmitry to rename his very useful stuff.

RE: I'm sure there are two side to this...
SeldomVisitor @ 8/14/2008 12:55:36 PM # Q
Indeed, Palm is entirely correct in protecting their trademark(s) because to NOT do so would LITERALLY mean to lose them.

Aspirin.

Elevator.

Palm.

RE: I'm sure there are two side to this...
PacManFoo @ 8/14/2008 12:55:52 PM # Q
I don't have the problem with Palm doing this, but like Rastick said, why have they let it go on so long? It's not like Dmitry just started up, in fact this is probably the end of the road for him and Palm devices. Then there is PalmInfocenter of course. If memory serves me right Palm did the same thing many years ago where they sent out c&d's to all the sites with Palm in their name. They then backed off, for many years now.

Actually having Palm in your name is more of a negative today. Palm stands for old, handheld, and in many peoples minds monochrome. Ask the average non techie type what a Palm is and they might describe a Palm III to you.

If there is one thing Palm is really good at though it's severing ties with its fan base.

The last known classic PDA user.
I've recently upgraded from a Palm TX to a Newton MP2000!
http://newtonpda.googlepages.com

RE: I'm sure there are two side to this...
Gekko @ 8/14/2008 2:31:31 PM # Q

either -

1. palm is just trying to protect its brand interests.

2. palm is using it as an excuse to use heavy-handed tactics to beat up on the Russkie for "causing trouble".


Sean Ambrose: [disguised as Ethan Hunt] You keep calling me Dimitri. You really shouldn't.
Dr. Nekhorvich: You are not Dimitri?
[Ambrose knocks him out]
Sean Ambrose: No

BTW - anybody have this video clip they can upload to the 'tube?

RE: I'm sure there are two side to this...
dmitrygr @ 8/14/2008 3:43:22 PM # Q
Play by play:

-i create site
...5 years pass...
-i create plmsdhc and have successful beta
...a week passes...
-the letter arrives
...3 hours pass...
-i move site
-i write responce
...a day passes...
-the news is picked up by most palm-related news sites, some bigger(non-palm-themed news sites) ones are also interested in writing on this

that is all so far

------
Software engineer at PalmPowerups.com
TH55/U + T|X2 + T|E2 + Zire 72 + Zire 31 + Visor Prism + WristPDA

RE: I'm sure there are two side to this...
Gekko @ 8/14/2008 3:49:02 PM # Q

ould you imagine the outrage here if MSFT did something like this?

RE: I'm sure there are two side to this...
joad @ 8/15/2008 11:23:04 AM # Q
Seem the essence of this is Dmitry p155ed off some suit/khaki at PalmInc. by once again showing that something their team of engineers claim can never be done can be whipped up in a weekend by a young hobbyist. Dmitry is doing the unthinkable - developing applications and applications that put the lie to what Palm keeps telling us - that Palm products are unusable beyond what their engineers TELL us they can do.

Remember, these same engineers and beancounters got royally angry at us for informing them that the 15-16MB of usable "RAM" in the Treo 650 was nearly unusable as an "upgrade" from what Handspring gave the 600 before their surrender to Palm. They lied about it for a week, and then finally admitted the 650 had problems and that they would (eventually) release some software patches to make the best of a bad situation. Funny how the Treo 700 and beyond had 50MB+ of available RAM... Thanks for the extra 35MB, Palm - what changed?

So, Dmitry, 5 years without a hassle from Palm, and you made one too many fatal errors of releasing something that clearly showed Palm's engineers (and/or those who control them)that the emperor has no clothes. The King sez "whack his website."



Paying my annual PDA update tax to Palm since 1997.

RE: I'm sure there are two side to this...
Tuckermaclain @ 8/21/2008 6:04:27 PM # Q
The letter claims that because the product and website contains the word "Palm" it is "likely to give customers and potential customers the erroneous impression that your company has a relationship with Palm, or that the information and products provided on your site have been authorized for release or approved by Palm."


Yeah, like I said before, Palm should HOPE people think they approve of his work. Otherwise they would be viewed as a bunch of greedy knuckle-draggers who know nothing about runing a business. Dmitri has probably done as much for Palm as any of their in-house talent. They should thank him.

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PALMSunday Ya Better Watch OUT!!!

ScottG @ 8/14/2008 1:42:38 PM # Q
OK, this just ruined my day!! Are you kidding me?

I would have told Palm to Kiss My Butt Cheeks!

I guess now PALM calls the United States Government and have PalmSunday Renamed to PLMSunday, or better yet How About Palm®Sunday.

The whole thing is just Plain STUPID. Lawyers with nothing better to do with their time, and trying to justify their jobs with a company.

I can Tell you we need to Revolt against all the BS and just Drop the "A" out of the Word in all our correspondence, because I'm afraid to use the work PALM® now in an EMail as they might want me to use their Trademark usage on the name at the end of all my EMails.

What about all the other PALM SITES? Like PalmGear, PalmBlvd, PalmGear, PalmOpenSource, PalmAddict - WAIT!!! Now What? IS "PalmInfoCenter.com" going to be changed to PlmInfoCenter? Because I could easliy be confused

OH, By the way, there is no mention of PALM as we know it in the Dictionary either.

----------

palm 1 |pä(l)m|
noun (also palm tree)
an unbranched evergreen tree with a crown of long feathered or fan-shaped leaves, and typically having old leaf scars forming a regular pattern on the trunk. Palms grow in warm regions, esp. the tropics. • Family Palmae (or Arecaceae): numerous genera and species, some of which are of great commercial importance, e.g., the oil palm, date palm, and coconut.
• a leaf of such a tree awarded as a prize or viewed as a symbol of victory or triumph : the consensus was that the palm should go to Doerner.
ORIGIN Old English palm(a), of Germanic origin; related to Dutch palm and German Palme, from Latin palma ‘palm (of a hand),' its leaf being likened to a spread hand.
palm 2 |pɑ;(l)m| |pɑ;ː;m|
noun
the inner surface of the hand between the wrist and fingers.
• a part of a glove that covers this part of the hand.
• a hard shield worn on the hand by sailmakers to protect the palm in sewing.
• the palmate part of an antler.
verb
1 [ trans. ] conceal (a card or other small object) in the hand, esp. as part of a trick or theft : he would spin wild tales while palming your wristwatch.
2 [ trans. ] hit (something) with the palm of the hand.
• Basketball illegally grip (the ball) with the hand while dribbling.
PHRASES
have (or hold) someone in the palm of one's hand have someone under one's control or influence : she had the audience in the palm of her hand.
read someone's palm tell someone's fortune by looking at the lines on their palm.
PHRASAL VERBS
palm someone off informal persuade someone to accept something by deception : most sellers are palmed off with a fraction of what something is worth.
palm something off sell or dispose of something by misrepresentation or fraud : they palmed off their shoddiest products on the Russians.
DERIVATIVES
palmar |ˈ;palmə;r; ˈ;pä(l)mə;r| |ˈ;pølmə;r| |ˈ;pɑ;(l)mə;r| |ˈ;palmə;| adjective
palmed |pɑ;(l)md| adjective : [in combination ] sweaty-palmed.
palmful |-fə;l| |ˈ;pɑ;(l)mfə;l| noun
ORIGIN Middle English : from Old French paume, from Latin palma. Current senses of the verb date from the late 17th cent.

palm PHRASES
grease someone's palm informal my Uncle Duke would grease the commissioner's palm on Tuesday, and on Wednesday his speakeasy would be serving up booze by the barrel bribe, buy (off), corrupt, suborn, give an inducement to; informal give a sweetener to.
have someone in the palm of one's hand can't you see that Dorrey has you in the palm of her hand? have control over, have influence over, have someone eating out of one's hand, have someone on a string, have someone in one's hip pocket, have someone wrapped around one's finger.
palm off you're not going to palm off that rusty old truck on me foist, fob off, get rid of, dispose of, unload.
palm 2
noun
the palm of victory prize, trophy, award, crown, laurel wreath, laurels, bays.

Traveler's palm or Ravenala madagascariensis, a species of banana-like plant from Madagascar
Palm (unit), unit of length
The Palms, a hotel and casino in Las Vegas, Nevada
The Palm (restaurant), a restaurant chain originating in New York City
Palms, Los Angeles, California
Palm branch (symbol)
Palm Islands, three artificial islands off the coast of Dubai
Palm Breweries, a Belgian company
Palm Pictures, an arthouse film distribution company
Palm Records, a Hawaiian company
Thousand Palms, California
29 Palms, California
PhotoActivated Localization Microscopy or PALM
August Palm, (1849-1922) Swedish socialist activist
Palming, a sleight-of-hand technique
Palmer
Palm reading

ScottG

RE: PALMSunday Ya Better Watch OUT!!!
robin24k @ 8/14/2008 3:21:56 PM # Q
ScottG, it is quite obvious that his site has nothing to do with a holiday or a tree.

"What about all the other PALM SITES? Like PalmGear, PalmBlvd, PalmGear, PalmOpenSource, PalmAddict - WAIT!!! Now What? IS "PalmInfoCenter.com" going to be changed to PlmInfoCenter? Because I could easliy be confused"

The reason is because his site does not mention anything about the trademarks. If you look closely at the bottom of this page, there is a disclaimer there. That's why only he's getting into trouble - he has no disclaimer.

RE: PALMSunday Ya Better Watch OUT!!!
LiveFaith @ 8/14/2008 4:06:16 PM # Q
Dmitry should put the disclaimer in bold letters. that way new visitors would understand he's not affiliated with the corporate spaghetti Palm disaster and give his skills an honest look.

Pat Horne
RE: PALMSunday Ya Better Watch OUT!!!
mikecane @ 8/14/2008 5:49:03 PM # Q
Palm tried to pull this several years ago. FAIL.

Ooh, like when I visit "Apple Insider," I'm all confused that I'm not getting inside news direct from Apple.

*snort*

RE: PALMSunday Ya Better Watch OUT!!!
palmdoc88 @ 8/14/2008 6:58:55 PM # Q
Errr... do I have to rename my blog too? :P

http://palmdoc.net
RE: PALMSunday Ya Better Watch OUT!!!
BaalthazaaR @ 8/15/2008 10:10:25 AM # Q

RE: PALMSunday Ya Better Watch OUT!!!
palmdoc88 @ 8/14/2008 6:58:55 PM

Errr... do I have to rename my blog too? :P

http://palmdoc.net

And your little handle too :-D

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