MobileInfocenter

Comments on: Opinion: Tungsten T5, What the heck happened?

PalmInfocenter reader and forum moderator, Derek Kessler (aka Captain Hair), has sent in a new opinion piece. Derek muses about the long build up and his disappointment regarding the palmOne Tungsten T5 handheld. Read on for the full article.
Return to Story - Permalink

Article Comments

 (117 comments)

The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. PalmInfocenter is not responsible for them in any way.
Please Login or register here to add your comments.

Start a new Comment Down

It's apparently Crap Week at PIC

mikecane @ 1/31/2005 6:04:34 PM # Q
"pa1mOne has stated that the T5 is a new generation device"

-- where did they say this?

RE: It's apparently Crap Week at PIC
Foo Fighter @ 2/1/2005 7:47:20 AM # Q
>> "pa1mOne has stated that the T5 is a new generation device"

Then why does this "new generation" device look suspiciously like the old generation device?

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com

Reply to this comment

Might be the last Palm I'll ever buy

palmdoc88 @ 1/31/2005 6:10:14 PM # Q
I blogged it here:
http://palmdoc.blogspot.com/2005_01_01_palmdoc_archive.html#110721063390114953

But really, unless palmOne comes up with a "power users" palmOS powered PDA, I would seriously think of getting something else. The Dell X50V for instance looks so much better value for money on hardware specs alone.

The only reason why I got the T5 was I got tired of my T3's digitizer problems (replaced twice already).
On the whole the T5 is "okay" as a replacement. It is an interim PDA for me. I am not into the smartphone thing but if palmOne does not deliver this year, I might have to go the PPC way.....


T3 user

RE: Might be the last Palm I'll ever buy
orev @ 2/1/2005 1:25:47 PM # Q
I just bought the axim x50v, specifically to use with a gps, and the hardware specs are amazing. The screen is beautiful, and it just looks great.

However, it runs Windows Pocket PC whatever, and I HATE IT. This is the most horrible handheld OS ever made. It's simply horrible.

Initially I was thinking of switching to it as my main PDA, but after spending a few weeks with the axim, Palm will always remain my main handheld.

RE: Might be the last Palm I'll ever buy
mikecane @ 2/1/2005 3:39:37 PM # Q
>>>However, it runs Windows Pocket PC whatever, and I HATE IT. This is the most horrible handheld OS ever made. It's simply horrible.

Another poor sould lured in by the siren call of better specs -- and then mugged by the inhuman software.

You don't need that GPS to point you back to POS.

But maybe p1 could use a GPS!

RE: Might be the last Palm I'll ever buy
orev @ 2/2/2005 1:31:27 PM # Q
No, I was not lured by the specs, at least not to try to replace my TT. I had originally planned on using a full blown car computer, but then realized I could get the same functionality in a Pocket PC. The GPS software for palm just doesn't match up. If anything, using a PPC has made me more resolute in sticking with Palm.

However, my shopping experience pointed me to a lesson that Palm should have learned a long time ago. Your presence in a B&M store is very important. Palm's simply have no "pop" when sitting next to the new PPCs. If you don't know the power of Palm, you easily gravitate towards the flashy PPC units. Palm really has to compete here.

RE: Might be the last Palm I'll ever buy
wrlee @ 2/3/2005 1:02:50 PM # Q
palmOne does resell a GPS for use with the T5 (well, not specifically, but it does work... it only needs a power cord to be included).

Bill...
[Still sticking with my T3 -- might buy another one as backup]

RE: Might be the last Palm I'll ever buy
batteries4ever @ 3/2/2005 7:06:58 AM # Q
Mike, I may have found a solution to your dilemma.
it's called the Garmin Ique. Absolutely horrible battery life ( about 60-90 minutes with backlight and GPS on). But decent built quality, Hires+, built-in antenna (good for walks). first rate GPS software (i think garmin still has the lead there) and eh... Palm OS! I haven't seen the VGA PPCs, but I feel that my eyes would be the limiting factor at any higher resolutions (pixels/inch)

Older device, but it still fits MY bill........

Garmin 3600 iQue

Reply to this comment

T3: The Last Good Palm Made

Gekko @ 1/31/2005 6:18:50 PM # Q
Period.

RE: T3: The Last Good Palm Made
Masamune @ 1/31/2005 6:40:59 PM # Q
Call me the eternal optimist, but I'd like to think the T3 is the Last Good Palm Made.....so far. Its early days yet in 2005 - lets see what Palm has up their sleeves....

RE: T3: The Last Good Palm Made
Bhalrog @ 2/1/2005 9:09:06 AM # Q
Masmune, if you're the eternal optimist, then at least you'll have company. I'm willing to give P1 one last shot to keep my business. I was very underwhelmed with the T5, and I agree with this article's supposition about its current popularity. I don't think it will last very long.

I do think that P1 needs to keep the 'power user' segment, because it's not just they that use the 'power' features. For example, I don't need to have a voice recorder for most of my day. But when I need it, boy is it handy. And I find wi-fi very handy in general, although I may not use it as often as some power users. I have been very loyal to P1 over the years, despite the ridicule of friends and family, and the T5 has been a huge disappointment, to say the least. P1, this is your last chance!

RE: T3: The Last Good Palm Made
Wollombi @ 2/1/2005 2:36:38 PM # Q
I'll be optimistic too, sure. Just decide on one kind of connector and stick with it though. I'm tired of multiple connectors/cradles/accessories/etc. just because we have two different models of Palm.

_________________
Sean

There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.

RE: T3: The Last Good Palm Made
joad @ 2/1/2005 11:47:12 PM # Q
[QUOTE] I'll be optimistic too, sure. Just decide on one kind of connector and stick with it though. I'm tired of multiple connectors/cradles/accessories/etc. just because we have two different models of Palm. [QUOTE]

Oh, not me. I just LOOOVE having to keep handy a p3 connector, P5 connector, handspring connector, Palm "universal" connector, Treo connector, and (if PalmOne ever builds anything worth buying again) the new "athena" connector. Good thing I dumped the Zodiac and never bothered with SONY's shiny junk.

It would be less of an issue if each connector was noticeably better than the old one, but from holding Athena (making 2 cables out of 1 - brilliant thinking there) it appears that it's LESS able to stay attached to the handheld or Treo than the "Universal" Connector or the Treo 90-600 connectors. The extra power cord gives it one more thing to carry, connect, wear out and get lost. Hey- what they lose in customer satisfaction they gain in sales of accessories - good job MBA's!!


Reply to this comment

The T5 is kind of the last straw for me :(

Puppy @ 1/31/2005 6:58:19 PM # Q
Great article.

I've been a long time supporter of the PalmOS, but I'm literally tonight probably going to place an order for an Axim x50v.

I'm sick of PalmOne's reliability problems. I've purchased 6 PalmOne units over the years, and all 6 have had serious issues.

Vx-completely died three days after I bought it. Returned it for:
IIIxe-The pixels in the corner of the screen turned black the more I used it. Like within a few days the edges of the screen were completely black, and it was creeping inwards. Returned it for:
IIIxe-Worked great for maybe 4 months, then the digitizer started going nuts. After about 8 months it was worthless, even when I tried various programs that claim to fix digitizer problems.
Tungsten T-the screen was somehow mounted wrong so that you could barely see it when viewed straight on. You had to turn it at an angle to view it.
Zire 71 and Tungsten E-both of these had HORRIBLE screen hum, so much that you could hear them over the roar of servers in a server room, or across the room.

And of course Iíve heard all the complaints of the M5xx series that quit syncing through USB, the T3ís digitizer problems and screws falling out, etc. There is SOMETHING WRONG when 6 out of 6 products you buy from a company are faulty.

In between those PalmOne PDAs I had two Handsprings, and 3 Clies, all of which worked flawlessly. Iíd just buy the newest Clie, if they were still available (not that I was crazy about their wacky designs, but at least they were reliable).

At any rate, I accidentally damaged my current Clie, and need a replacement pretty soon. Iíve played with the T5, but:
-You canít replace JOT with Graffiti, and I *hate* JOT.
-Text input lags badly, making JOT even harder to use.
-The first button is hardwired to the launcher (although apparently a third party app fixes this)
-The screen seems to hum, although I canít tell for sure in a store
-No voice recorder! On a business oriented PDA? I thought the Zire 72 was a sign that PalmOne had gotten their act together and was finally going to include recorders on all their mid and high end PDAs (IMO this is the one thing Microsoft really did right with WinCE).
-The buttons donít turn on the unit immediately, meaning you have to hold them down long enough to turn the unit on, but not a second too long, or the application the button loaded will start flipping between different views.
Meanwhile, the Axim line seems to be built well, has graffiti, and amazing features for the price, but the OS is VERY clunky. Even still, I donít trust that a T5 would last me very long, and the combination of sluggish text entry and JOT makes using it possibly at least as frustrating as using a Pocket PCÖso Iím pretty sure Iím just going to bite the bullet and try an Axim. I know Iím not the only one-Palm really needs to get their act together, or we desperately need another big third party like Sony.

RE: The T5 is kind of the last straw for me :(
Wolfgard @ 1/31/2005 10:30:20 PM # Q
Quote: "Zire 71 and Tungsten E-both of these had HORRIBLE screen hum, so much that you could hear them over the roar of servers in a server room, or across the room."

Don't forget the Zire 72 and T|3. I'll never ever buy another P1 device until they fix this problem. Being able to hear the hum (or should I say whine?) while waiting inside a plane spooling up its engines is too much for me. And all those sessions reading in the library/lab really hurts my head.


pen & paper -> m515 -> Zire72 -> TH55 & Handera 330

RE: The T5 is kind of the last straw for me :(
svrontis @ 2/1/2005 3:48:42 AM # Q
Puppy, you have been threatening to buy an Axim for over 3 months now. Here is a link to the Dell website, in case you can't find it-

http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/compare.aspx/pda?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs

Have a nice life.

RE: The T5 is kind of the last straw for me :(
Alric @ 2/1/2005 9:36:05 AM # Q
It was the last straw for me. Sold my T3 and got an Axim X30. Haven't been this happy with a PDA in a long time.

Cheers,

RE: The T5 is kind of the last straw for me :(
Puppy @ 2/1/2005 3:55:55 PM # Q
svrontis, acting sarcastic like that really adds nothing. Palm has a huge problem here. I don't *WANT* to have to buy a PocketPC. I think they're clunky, and have their own set of problems. But it's a fact that a huge number of Palm loyalists are now seriously looking at Dell's offerings (or have already moved-you should see the number of posts in Axim centric forums from people who have had 5 PalmOS pdas, and just got an Axim).

RE: The T5 is kind of the last straw for me :(
joad @ 2/1/2005 11:56:27 PM # Q
Hey- at least with a Pocket PC you get Graffiti 1.... Apparently Grafitti 2 is so good PalmOne won't even LET you put Graffiti 1 on a $400 T5.

I concur with the people that say it's probably PalmOne or Source trying to save face after jamming G2 down our throats. There is a HUGE underground of people that have loaded the G1 library onto their G2-supplied devices.

...And in true Palm customer-oriented fashion, their response to this was not to offer G1 (now that the lawsuit's dead) but to LOCK OUT the ability to even hack back to G1 on the "T5." Talk about putting the nail in the coffin for that device....

RE: The T5 is kind of the last straw for me :(
svrontis @ 2/2/2005 12:55:05 AM # Q
Puppy, I apologize for my post. I acknowledge that you have a lot of problems with the T5 (although, personally, I wouldn't agree with most of the points you raised).

WHAT ABOUT PPC RELIABILITY?
ackmondual @ 2/2/2005 12:56:46 AM # Q
If u poke around, I'm sure u'll find plenty of beefs with PPCs
RE: The T5 is kind of the last straw for me :(
Alric @ 2/2/2005 12:03:22 PM # Q
Not lack of WiFi...

RE: The T5 is kind of the last straw for me :(
InsGuy @ 2/2/2005 12:07:03 PM # Q
Yeah, PPC has some of it's own problems, but I jumped to the Dell X50v, and have had ZERO problems with mine. I admit, I don't add 40+ aftermarket programs, etc..., that many users do, so other than pocket bible, I use the programs that come on the unit. Since I already use Outlook, syncing was never a problem. Also, I like having WiFi, BT, a voice memo, dual CF and SD card slots, etc... I REALLY miss the ease of using palmOS, but now that I've learned how to use PPC for what I need, I'm probably not going to go back anytime soon.

All good things...
RE: The T5 is kind of the last straw for me :(
waltonfc @ 10/3/2005 1:55:44 AM # Q
I really hate to hear you guys argue....but then again conflict inspires innovation. I hope the folks at palm read this stuff and take it seriously. I sense that Palm has become a product of the big gorilla on the block. (Meaning that they don't have to be competitive their competitors do). If this attitude has been incorporated in the palm culture it is a deadly mistake; many failed corporations can attest to this.

What Palm did with the T5 is suspicious. Dropping the LED, vibrator, voice recorder and changing the connector (without providing some type of adapter) is negligent and arrogant to say the least.

To have people criticized for making these observations is nuts because this is how the global economy works---producers produce what consumers want to consume--- and for Palm to be delusional in thinking that they can live on the laurels of their operating system is not fair to them or us the customers.

Where are the cobalt and garnet os systems and where is a true upgrade to the T3.

I like so many others have purchased many (4) palm devices, Iíve had to upgrade accessories to fit the new devices; 2 wireless keyboards, 2 GPS' (Magellan and tom-tom), various cradles and sync cords all of which will not fit on the t5. I have purchased a fortune in software and software updates, these purchases have kept me loyal to Palm (along with the great graphics, and operating system) now that the new devices will not fit my accessories I may as well look elsewhere if Palm will not produce what I want to consume.

My T3 battery would not hold a charge longer then 25 minutes so I bought and replaced the battery; it now last about one hour. I would like to upgrade to a new device.
Thank you, svrontis but I already have the links to dell, compact and everyone else, I will wait till December and then I will decide.

Palm people I hope you read this and are working on a new knock out device using customer enhanced research.


This is my third palm unit and I have invested heavyly and stuck with the Palm name

Reply to this comment

Don't Forget

Gekko @ 1/31/2005 7:42:21 PM # Q

More T5 Issues
1. Find Bug - can't find data strings more than 8 hits. Palm says "Go pound sand and buy a 3rd party app."
2. Calendar Bug - I think fixed with a patch but just sloppy programming.
3. Dialog Box Bug - I think fixed with a patch but just sloppy programming.
4. DIA Static - NVFS strikes.
5. Long Sift reset times, 3 Minute Hard Reset Times.
6. Very Poor Backward Software Compatability yet such a "minor" OS upgrade.
7. Crash happy right out of the box.
8. NVFS stores data in BIG chunks sucking up memory at a much faster rate than normal RAM.
9. SLuggish operation - NVFS strikes again.
10. Some crashes require a "ZERO OUT RESET" - which ERASES ALL OF YOUR DATA DESPITE THE "VIRTUES" of NVFS.

Also - Captain Hair - what is your source that says this PIG is selling well??

RE: Don't Forget
Puppy @ 1/31/2005 8:03:25 PM # Q
What's the find bug? Do you mean it can't return more than 8 search results?

Who designed this thing? The only thing I like about it is that it's the first PalmOS device with a 320x480 screen and a normal form factor...but everything else seems wrong.

RE: Don't Forget
Gekko @ 1/31/2005 8:08:27 PM # Q

Support Knowledge Library




Solution ID: 38782


'Find' function shows the same eight Contact matches when it should show more

The "Find" function searches through all the databases on your device. palmOne has discovered an issue in which the "Find" function displays a maximum of eight matches in the Contacts application, although there may be more matches in Contacts.

What do you mean by "Find"?
We're talking about the global search function on the Tungsten T5 handheld. "Find" is launched when you tap the small magnifying glass icon in the status bar at the bottom of the screen. When you enter the search term and hit OK, the Tungsten T5 searches through the index files for its databases, application by application.

What is the issue?
In order for this particular issue to occur, all of these factors must be present:


You have more than eight Contacts with the same string of text in their Contact info
Example: you have more than eight people whose last or first names, email addresses, web sites, AIM names or home addresses begin with "sm" ó Smilla Anderson, John Smythe, smartypants@palmone.com, www.smittenwithpalmone.com, etc.


You use the built-in "Find" function to locate that text
Example: you search on "sm"


The item you're looking for does not appear in the first screen of Contacts, so you tap Find More.

The same eight Contacts are displayed every time you tap Find More. You can't continue searching in other applications once the eight Contacts are displayed.
What should I do?
The "Find" function is a subsystem of the Palm OS. It is a rudimentary feature of your handheld that performs basic searches. There are third-party search utilities on the market that offer robust features and flexible searching options beyond the basic "Find" function included with the Tungsten T5 handheld (and which do not encounter the issue with displaying only eight Contacts). Search the palmOne Software Connection for third-party handheld search utilities, such as IntelligentFind.

Note: the presence of a third party product in this article should be not be construed as an endorsement of that product, nor should its absence be considered a denigration. palmOne does not manufacture any third-party products mentioned above, and cannot provide support for them. If you purchase a third-party product and require help with it, contact the manufacturer.



Reply to this comment

yaaawwwwn

gidora @ 1/31/2005 7:50:12 PM # Q
Tired old, pointless perennial favorite regurgitated from the discussion forums. What's the occasion for this 1500 word drivel? (...the "peg" in journalspeak)

"Why if those corporate cronies at P1 don't acknowledge the business acumen of us loyal (albeit vaccillating) users soon, we'll, we'll, errr...buy a PPC."

How about some informative articles on NVFS/T5/connectivity (or whatever!) for a change?


Casio(256k)>Psion Siena(1M)> Visor Prism(8M)> TungstenT(16M)>T5(256M!)

RE: yaaawwwwn
Gekko @ 1/31/2005 8:32:44 PM # Q

>TungstenT(16M)>T5(256M!)

another sucker



RE: yaaawwwwn
svrontis @ 1/31/2005 8:47:51 PM # Q
What he said. How dare you make a sensible observation here on Palm Carping Center. If you don't have petulant complaints, then we don't want your kind here. (sarcasm intended)

RE: yaaawwwwn
RoadKnight @ 1/31/2005 8:55:07 PM # Q
Agreed. I'm glad I'm not the only one who's sick of seeing the same old regurgitated whiny flames by the same set of 15-year-olds with too much time and too much money on their hands and no real world experience in the design, development or marketing of technology products.

Yes, I'm calling all of you out. You know who you are.

Move out of your parents basements, get a job in the mobile industry and start doing real work to affect the change you want to see in the industry.

STOP trying to pass off your whiny rants as opinion pieces and your "My Ultimit PDA" drawings you make in history class as business plans.

Granted, Palm should not get a cakewalk here, they have screwed up, but the T5 has been out for MONTHS now. Get OVER it .

PIC USED to be interesting and informative.

Now it should be renamed PSC for "Palm Slam Center" because that's really what makes up most of the content here. It's like continuous re-runs of "Steve-Dave" and "Walt The Fanboy" from the Kevin Smith movies except you're talking about PDAs instead of comics.


RE: yaaawwwwn
Gekko @ 1/31/2005 9:37:30 PM # Q

well considering that all three of you schmucks have 20 or less posts here each, you don't bring much to the table anyway. stop biatching and hit the bricks if you don't like it here. no one is going to miss you.

RE: yaaawwwwn
rcartwright @ 1/31/2005 10:41:24 PM # Q
Gekko,

Its the quality of the posts, not the quantity. That said, I have to say that PalmOne needs a "wow" product in 2006.

"Many men stumble across the truth, but most manage to pick themselves up
and continue as if nothing had happened."
- Winston Churchill

RE: yaaawwwwn
Gekko @ 1/31/2005 10:57:29 PM # Q
>"Its the quality of the posts, not the quantity."

their quality sucks too.

RE: yaaawwwwn
relyons @ 2/1/2005 11:25:28 AM # Q
Gekko said, "their quality sucks too."

The posts from svrontis, RoadKnight and rcartwright in this thread are high quality posts.

The administrators of this site continue to allow the useless people to pollute the message boards. Channel your frustration there.

RE: yaaawwwwn
Strider_mt2k @ 2/1/2005 12:34:25 PM # Q
Try this one for size:

Palm Daycarecenter

RE: yaaawwwwn
Gar @ 2/1/2005 1:29:22 PM # Q
It really comes down to what you use the device for. The author has needs that require a new Palm that has a slider and the other 'features' they need. I have a need for a device that I can flip the cover open and have access to the full 320x480 without a slider. Just the way I use it. The T5 happens to be pointed to folks that use the device like I do. Sadly for Palm I need WiFi and quick access to a camera so I'm sticking with my TH55. That doesn't mean the T5 is wrong for everyone.
If this isn't the perfect match for someone's uses, the next unit will be wrong for someone else. I have a T|C and can't use the keybord, my wife has it now, can't live without it and will be heading to the Treo 650 when Cingular releases it. It has the features that she 'needs' in her life. Others hate the 650, it doesn't mean Palm got it wrong. Just wrong for you.

-----------------
My wife has to sell a lot of candles (www.ccandles.com) to buy her new Palm.
RE: yaaawwwwn
joad @ 2/2/2005 12:17:39 AM # Q
>"it doesn't mean Palm got it wrong. Just wrong for you."

In a way, I agree with you. Though in the case of the last two models out of PalmOne, the T5 and 650, they are touted as "upgrades" to previous models. Even the numbering system coincides: T3->T5, Treo 600->Treo 650..


Now I don't know about you, but "industry standard" as I understand it usually means that when something's an "upgrade" it is actually an upgrade - people who have the old model will be able to have the at least as much functionality as the model it allegedly replaces, plus some potential extras that make the $400-600 a little more bearable.

Now I'm not saying it's necessarily "right" or "wrong" to remove vibrating alarms on the T5, or have 33% LESS memory than a Treo 600 in a Treo 650, but it's sure not any sort of improvement and most sane people would call it a "downgrade."

Why PalmOne made these decisions is up to them, and perhaps their declining sales numbers can be seen as feedback about how well the market enjoyed being offered less for more as they "discontinue" more usable models.

Nonetheless, "right" and "wrong" is for the philosophers to chew over as they apply layers of duct tape to their older and older Palms as hope springs eternal that PalmOne will release REAL upgrades soon.

RE: yaaawwwwn
InsGuy @ 2/2/2005 12:12:05 PM # Q
>TungstenT(16M)>T5(256M!)

another sucker


That's good :) The "We the Suckers" thread was one of the longest in recent memory!

All good things...

RE: yaaawwwwn
waltonfc @ 10/3/2005 3:06:27 AM # Q
From my previous post to T5 may be my last I stated
"I really hate to hear you guys argue....but then again conflict inspires innovation. I hope the folks at palm read this stuff and take it seriously. I sense that Palm has become a product of the big gorilla on the block. (Meaning that they don't have to be competitive their competitors do). If this attitude has been incorporated in the palm culture it is a deadly mistake; many failed corporations can attest to this."

This is my third palm unit and I have invested heavyly and stuck with the Palm name
Reply to this comment

What T5?

hotpaw4 @ 1/31/2005 9:53:16 PM # Q
We probably haven't seen the T5 yet. Only the relabled and repriced T|E2.

The only question is what will they call the real T|T5, since that name is already taken.


RE: What T5?
Captain Hair @ 2/1/2005 9:20:48 AM # Q
T|T7

"People who think they're smart annoy those of us who are."
RE: What T5?
vesther @ 2/7/2005 7:56:34 PM # Q
Agreed here. Probably the Tungsten T7 MUST have the following:

* METAL CASE!!! Anodized Aluminum. This is MANDATORY.
* Flip Cover reminscent of the Tungsten T3. Amalgamation of T3 and C
* Vibrate, Charge Indicator, and "Speaker" on the FRONT!!! Voice Memo TOO!!!
* 8-Button/9-Directional D-Pad Layout.
* High-Performance Motorola iMXl Processor or Intel 624MHz PXA27x Processor
* 802.11g Certification PLUS Bluetooth 2.0 Compliance!!!
* Give us a CRADLE!!! Yes!!!! CRADLE, DOCK, I don't care, I prefer CRADLES!!!
* Dual SD/MMC/SDIO
* Durable, Rugged Design
* Palm OS Cobalt

If the Tungsten T7 does not alleviate palmOne's mistakes from the Tungsten T5, I'm probably gonna have to write the entire company up for their poor, unsatisfactory performance, and someone at palmOne could lose their job. The company is in jeopardy right now because of their poor quality standards.

Powered by Palm OS since March 2002

Reply to this comment

Why no WiFi

kevdo @ 1/31/2005 10:09:54 PM # Q
>No Wi-Fi? Nobody can really figure out what the thought process was behind this one.
I believe someone from PalmOne was quoted as saying that the Tungsten C didn't sell too well, hence the "demand" for WiFi isn't that great.

Which makes sense only if you ignore several flaws with the T|C such as the cost, lack of updated PIM apps, mono headphone jack, and (for some) the thumb board and 320x320 resolution.

Not sure why we can't have a T|5 without WiFi and a T|5+ with it included (no, not for $100 more, please). THEN you'd have a real case.

-Kevin Crossman, Palm Powered Software Champion

RE: Why no WiFi
svrontis @ 2/1/2005 3:33:50 AM # Q
> Not sure why we can't have a T|5 without WiFi and a T|5+ with it included (no, not for $100 more, please). THEN you'd have a real case.

Yes, you're right. Maybe they need to release a T5KS ('KS' for 'kitchen sink') version - with Wi-Fi, voicerecorder and all they other things that were left out. Personally, I wouldn't buy such a unit, but maybe this would satisfy some people.

The big problem for us is that p1 might jump too far as a result of all these complaints. What I would hate to see is for p1 to fell they need to pack all sorts of gizmos into ALL their units. I think there is still a lot of room for basic units, like the TE.

RE: Why no WiFi? Because Palm's just too ******* cheap.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 2/1/2005 10:38:15 PM # Q
The big problem for us is that p1 might jump too far as a result of all these complaints. What I would hate to see is for p1 to fell they need to pack all sorts of gizmos into ALL their units. I think there is still a lot of room for basic units, like the TE.


Except this is now 2005. To try and sell a PDA for $400 in 2005 and omit those "gizmos" (vibrating alarm, voice recorder and Wi-Fi aren't exactly "gizmos", by the way) is ridiculous. Especially when every PPC maker has no problem including those "gizmos" in PDAs costing the same or less than the T"5".

Leaving features (but NOT quality) out of a basic $200 model like the Tungsten E is perfectly acceptable, though. Compromises are expected at that price point. Anyone spending $400 on a PDA has the right to expect good hardware with most of the "gizmos".

Most of the people buying T5 just don't know any better - they could easily get a TH55 for the same price and save themselves a lot of headaches.


******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Why no WiFi
joad @ 2/2/2005 12:31:50 AM # Q
...unless you absolutely HATE the memorystick proprietary system and SONY's lousy support and awful buttons.

Palm to world: Who needs Wi-Fi???
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 2/2/2005 9:57:57 PM # Q
...unless you absolutely HATE the memorystick proprietary system and SONY's lousy support and awful buttons.

I'll take excellent build quality + reliability, nice seceen, decent camera, voice recorder, charging light and dual wireless with my Sony.

You take your horrible foreign tech support, tragic build quality, lack of Wi-Fi + lack of reliability with your Palm.

Come back in three years (or even next year) and let's see who's PDA is in a landfill...



******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Why no WiFi
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 2/3/2005 12:16:18 AM # Q
nice seceen

For those without a Dyslexic <-> English dictionary, "nice seceen" = nice screen...


******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Why no WiFi
mikecane @ 2/3/2005 9:32:17 AM # Q
>>>tragic build quality

Hah! Good one. It is indeed a tragedy.

Reply to this comment

Poor quality Flip covers

Foo Fighter @ 1/31/2005 10:35:57 PM # Q
PalmOne seems to be having problems lately with the quality of T5 flip covers, or lack thereof. I am now on my third cover with the same issue; defective leather hinges that are stiff and barely bendable. The problem is so severe that after a period of time, the hinge begins developing cracks. The first one I had looked as though it were stuck in a microwave for 10 minutes. Where are they getting the cows for these things? Someone needs to cover them with number 10 sunblock before skinning the herd.

By the way...I'm posting this from my new Mac Mini! w00t!

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com

RE: Poor quality Flip covers
Gekko @ 1/31/2005 10:44:36 PM # Q

they're pleather. suck it up.

https://www.senacases.com/



RE: Poor quality Flip covers
Foo Fighter @ 1/31/2005 11:05:33 PM # Q
Cases add bulk. No thanks, I have no use for them..I prefer flip covers. The T5 flip cover isn't so bad, except for the rawhide hinge.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com
RE: Poor quality Flip covers
svrontis @ 2/1/2005 12:52:21 AM # Q
> Someone needs to cover them with number 10 sunblock before skinning the herd.

That's a great line.

RE: Poor quality Flip covers
vesther @ 2/7/2005 7:52:45 PM # Q
The Tungsten C and Tungsten T3 flip covers were high-quality, but the Tungsten T5 flip cover, if I was one of the palmOne shareholders, feel that this warrants some disciplinary action against the whole team who developed the Tungsten T5. Frankly, I am UPSET over how the Tungsten T5 turned out--I might rage mad and like I said, if I was one of the shareholders, would write the entire company up for poor, unsatisfactory performance.

Powered by Palm OS since March 2002
Reply to this comment

T5 solved some problems, but created others

adamsmark @ 2/1/2005 1:37:30 AM # Q
The T5 finally gave Palm users the option of a full screen without the slider (granted, many users, like me, prefer the slider). It also added more memory and memory that would not be so easily lost. In theory, it sounds great.

It's what the T5 lost that killed it: cradle, LED, vibrating alerts, voice recorder, Universal Connector, and metal case. And it really comes down to pricing. Palm DOES NOT make a high-end PDA anymore. Rather, they sell a mid-range PDA at high-end prices. The T5 brought nothing to the table except greater memory, which considering SD card prices is unremarkable.

Normally, I buy the newest Palm, but nothing has tempted me to buy a T5. Any remote temptation generally leads me to conclude that I should plop $400 down on a high-end PPC, and considering Palm's recent move, that doesn't make me sick anymore.

I'll wait till the next generation of Palms, but I'm not holding my breath. Question is, does Palm know they made a dud and do they care?

RE: T5 solved some problems, but created others
vesther @ 2/1/2005 9:40:52 AM # Q
I'm not sure. palmOne made excessive mistakes with the Tungsten T5 IMO. I pity the Plastic Case--it feels WAY OUT OF PLACE for a $400 handheld. It feels more like an enhanced Tungsten E instead. Plastic tend to break more easy than Metal Cases. I would personally use Anodized Aluminum as the next Metal Case.

I hope palmOne knows what their biggest mistakes are from the Tungsten T5, though. For now, I want palmOne to know what their mistake is regarding about the Tungsten T5.

Powered by Palm OS since March 2002

Reply to this comment

Should have called it something else

potter @ 2/1/2005 9:14:50 AM # Q
Derek Kessler wrote on January 31st, 2005:
> pa1mOne has stated that the T5 is a new generation device, not a
> sequel to the T3.
And thus I think they should have called it something else, say the Tungsten M, thus minimizing the comparisons with the T3, and the features lost.

RE: Should have called it something else
vesther @ 2/1/2005 9:35:34 AM # Q
I agree here--palmOne IMO should've called this pup the Tungsten M (M meaning Memory Inside) rather than the Tungsten T5. This is the least innovative product I've seen in my life (even though it might be more user-friendly than the Tungsten T3, but it suffers from excessive third-party boo-boos here and there).

I'm really irritated about the plastic casing, the crappy flip cover, the lack of Vibrate, the lack of a Cradle/Dock, the lack of Vibrate, not using smooth, anodized aluminum metal casing, the lack of Voice Memo (I don't use Voice Memo at all but I see this important on a High-End Handheld), and other goodies detracted from the Tungsten T3. The absence of the slider is great, but the key areas I have with the Tungsten T5 is more than enough for me to write a letter of upset to palmOne. More likely I'm gonna have to go ahead and buy a Tapwave Zodiac instead in the future.

Powered by Palm OS since March 2002

Reply to this comment

Pilot 1000 came first

potter @ 2/1/2005 9:18:42 AM # Q
Derek Kessler wrote on January 31st, 2005:
> They bought the original Palm Pilot when it first came out. Then
> they bought the Pilot 1000. And a III, IIIx, ...
The first Palm devices were the Pilot 1000 and the Pilot 5000, running Palm OS v1.0. The second generation-devices were the PalmPilot Personal and the PalmPilot Professional. The third generation device was the Palm III.

RE: Pilot 1000 came first
Captain Hair @ 2/1/2005 10:59:47 AM # Q
Oops. Sorry 'bout that.

"People who think they're smart annoy those of us who are."
RE: Pilot 1000 came first
mikecane @ 2/1/2005 3:43:38 PM # Q
>>>"People who think they're smart annoy those of us who are."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Sorry.

Had to get that out.

RE: Pilot 1000 came first
Captain Hair @ 2/1/2005 5:30:22 PM # Q
Mike, it's been there for a year.

"People who think they're smart annoy those of us who are."
RE: Pilot 1000 came first
mikecane @ 2/1/2005 6:55:24 PM # Q
Are you absolutely clueless?

Let me answer for you: Yes!

Reply to this comment

Graffiti 1

sremick @ 2/1/2005 11:32:42 AM # Q
Just thought I'd remind people of this point:

There's no way to get Graffiti 1 on the T5.

Also... last I knew, Xerox lost the latest round of the court battle, so Palm is free to use Graffiti one again. The T5 came out AFTER Xerox's loss.

And the ultimate slap in the face? You can use a PPC and use Graffiti 1 on it just fine. If MS can use G1, why not Palm? The irony of it all...

So yeah... want G1? Get a PPC. Thanks, Palm.

Sorry... not only do I consider G1 to be more-efficient than G2 (due to fewer strokes), it's specifically better for ME because I have many YEARS of G1 already programmed into my brain/hand. And I am not alone. It's like Palm gave all us long-time loyal users the middle finger.

It should be an option, at least. But it isn't even that. So add it to the list of "strikes".

(I use a T3 w/ replaced files for G1)

http://vtbsd.net/winhelp/

RE: Graffiti 1
hkklife @ 2/1/2005 11:52:30 AM # Q
Hear, hear. But you/we are just preaching to a brick wall on the G1 issue. You know, and I have used this analogy before, if Dell suddenly started shipping ALL of their new PCs & laptops with a DVORAK keyboards (with a proprietary plug so that no QWERTY aftermarket boards could be added) there would be the biggest uproar the industry had ever seen. The immediate aftermath would either be Dell:

1. Going back to QWERTY
2. Offerng customers a choice of keyboard at time of purchase or their exclusive Dell-branded Qwerty board for $29.99 for existing owners
3. Choosing to ignore the protests of the masses and slowly fading away into obscurity/oblivion as their dwindling customer base jumped ship.

The Graffiti 1 issue is EXACTLY the same as the little scenario I outlined above. We've yet to receive any official statement from Palm Inc/P1 on the sudden loss of Graffiti. Why are all of the developers in Palmland suddenly so unmotivated that they cannot come up with a better alternative than the sorry Tealscript? Look at the MILLIONS of Pilots---->T|Ts sold worldwide.

Something is also funny with the Palm developer world as well. You have developers trying to force GBA emulation onto a Palm depiste the looming threat of Nintendo's lawyers and yet no one wants to take a crack at getting G1 back onto current OS 5 units? Something's NOT right with that situation!

Someone please take a look at ballpark figures for the total # of Palm units in service worldwide (all brands) with standard G2 or Jot and, even with a generous percentage of those handhelds collecting dust in a drawer somewhere, tell me with a straight face that there is not a huge market out there amongst those users who would GLADLY a few bucks for an official, licensed, fast and stable G1 plugin. I don't mean a hybrid G1/G2, a "make yer own strokes and hope for the best" program, I mean a RAM or ROM patch that overwrites the G2 libraries with the original G1 character set. Sure, it'd have to be tweaked very slightly to accomodate landscape and 320*480 DIAs but if a HACK works as well as it does on the T3, then imagine how well the real thing would do.

Case in point:

1. There are still oodles of "old timer" Palm users (say, T|T and earlier) who are handing onto their old, dying units. Each passing day without G1 makes it less likely that they will upgrade to a product produced by P1 or one of the few licensees remaining.

2. Then you have the users like myself, Cap'n Hair, Gekko, and sremick who are currently using hacked T|Es/T2s/T3s that have seen their best days. Assuming P1 lives long enough to release another handheld, what are we going to do when everything is T5-style and cannot be hacked back to G1?

3. I am sure that there are more than a few individuals, casual AND power users, who left Palm OS in disgust after getting snared by a G2 model in the past two years. Merely offerng G1 wouldn't be enough to bring 'em back into the fold but offering a kick-ass T7 unit with user-selectable G1/G2 or a free downloadable G1 plugin would certainly be the icing on the cake.

P.S.

Voice, do you or any of your sources have ANY insight into who is the culprit for this fiasco? Is it P1 or Xerox? Heck, you'd think PS would pick up at least pick up a G1 license and add that to the patchwork quilt that has become OS 5.x.x If it's going to become SO convoluted at least give us options!!

RE: Graffiti 1
hkklife @ 2/1/2005 12:11:14 PM # Q
P.P.S.

Ryan, can we add a poll to the front page breaking down people's input methods? Keyboard, Jot, G1, G2 or otherwise (onscreen keyboard pecking etc)?

Or, simply, how about "Would you pay $20 for a legitimate, professional developed G1 plugin for your OS5 device?"

It's time more of a stink was made about this. It's nearly 2.5 years since the last G1 models shipped and ud disgruntled users STILL haven't been offered ANYTHING by anyone (PS, P1, Xerox, 3rd party developers).

Btw, Good article, Hair. I'm impressed you can still find enough things to like about the T5 despite the otherwise scathing review.

RE: Graffiti 1
twrock @ 2/1/2005 7:44:13 PM # Q
Yep, I'm one of those using a hacked TT2 with G1. It's truly not about the money. I bought TealSript, used it for a while, tried very hard to tweak it to recognize my G1 input better and still ended up with more mistakes than I get using the standard G1.

[rant] PLMO, PSRC, WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?!!!!! Is it just because you made some crazy proclamation back when you came out with G2 that it was so much better that now you're so intent on saving face and don't dare give us what we want even though it should cost you nothing to do so? Did you make some kind of contractual agreement with Jot or someone else that now procludes you from including G1? Are we somehow not seeing your very good reason for not including G1 as an option? Please, at least come out with an honest statement explaining what the problem is. We aren't totally without understanding. [/rant]

RE: Graffiti 1
Sleuth255 @ 2/1/2005 8:58:00 PM # Q
Sombody pleeeeezzzzzeee do this!!! I'd replace my "hacked" G1 libraries in a second because they stop recognizing dot commands after about two uses...

RE: Graffiti 1
rcartwright @ 2/1/2005 9:45:24 PM # Q
have to say after I got my T3 (after the T5 I had to do something about my m515)I hated and cursed G2 in at least 3 languages. However, after a while it has grown on me. Admittedly like fungus, but its grown on me.

"Many men stumble across the truth, but most manage to pick themselves up
and continue as if nothing had happened."
- Winston Churchill
RE: Graffiti 1
hkklife @ 2/1/2005 10:22:08 PM # Q
Aaron Ardiri, if you're still out there, care to take a crack at it? You guys have faced down bigger legal demons than Xerox in the past! *grin*

G1 libraries on my T2 were fine but they are flaky when in full-screen and/or landscape on my T3 and, as Sleuth said, don't like dot commands well at all. After the T3s are all gone then we'll REALLY be in bad shape. Come to think of it, I'd actually prefer a Treo 650-style thumbboard over forced G2. I have been practicing G1 since 1996 and have NO intentions of changing ANYTIME soon.

Oh, there IS a new beta out of TealScript where rudimentary T5 support has been added but I'd imagine it's still pretty buggy. They haven't had an official release since last summer.

RE: Graffiti 1
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 2/1/2005 11:02:52 PM # Q
Voice, do you or any of your sources have ANY insight into who is the culprit for this fiasco? Is it P1 or Xerox? Heck, you'd think PS would pick up at least pick up a G1 license and add that to the patchwork quilt that has become OS 5.x.x If it's going to become SO convoluted at least give us options!!

Palm isn't insane enough to put G1 back on its handhelds after facing some VERY expensive litigation. If Xerox appealed + won, they could potentially force Palm to recall ALL of their PDAs or else suck every remaining penny from the company. Leaving G1 off new PDAs is a wise move.

Most users don't care (or don't know any better) what type of character recognition system comes with their PDAs. The rest of us adapt with stolen G1 hacks, TealScript, keyboards, or learning G2. I tried TealScript on my UX50, but it crashed horribly and I couldn't be bothered with trying to wait for the bugs to be fixed. Now I use the keyboard exclusively and don't miss G1 anymore.



******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Graffiti 1
twrock @ 2/2/2005 12:09:20 AM # Q
So is there no limit to how long Xerox (insert favorite derogatory statement here) has to file an appeal in this case? Will they never go away? How about bringing back G1 with just one obscure symbol requiring two strokes (the trademark symbol comes to mind)? (Yeah, I know, I'm just kidding.)

The original lawsuit was absurd and so will any appeal be. I hate this kind of litigation.

RE: Graffiti 1
svrontis @ 2/2/2005 1:09:31 AM # Q
Sleuth 255 said > they stop recognizing dot commands after about two uses...

I had this problem too. Then I noticed that the ROM seems to have some Graffiti Anywhere code in it. I remembered that GA had instructions to the effect that dot commands should be preceded by an upstroke (from bottom right to top left). With this work-around, dot commands with G1 have been working OK with this. Thought I should pass this on.

Here's why G1 is DEAD:
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 2/2/2005 2:05:33 AM # Q
http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/33999.html


******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

And this is why bogus lawsuits are DESTROYING America:
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 2/2/2005 2:17:37 AM # Q
http://unames.com/gen-eric/archive.htm

Don't feel like working for a living? Here's how to get rich quick in 5 easy steps:

Step 1: Come up with a very general idea that's so vague that you know dozens of companies will inevitably be using the process.

Step 2: Patent it.

Step 3: Wait a couple of years.

Step 4: Find + sue every (profitable) company you can find that sells anything using a component even slightly related to your patent.

Step 5: Hope they'll cut their losses + either settle out of court or licence your "technology".

Microsoft has lot several BILLION dollars in the past two years alone due to bogus lawsuits. They even lost a ridiculous lawsuit filed by Be when that company got its a$$ kicked in the OS wars. (Be probably made more from that lawsuit than it did from several years of selling their varions OSes.) Can't compete in business? No problem - just sue your way to success. Suing big/wealthy companies has now become such a major industry that several companies now take out/purchase patents solely with the intent of using the patents to pursue litigation.

The sleazebag company RIM (a.k.a. "Lawsuits In Motion") has probably set the record for suing anyone and everyone they felt was a potential competitor. Just ask that poor little start-up, Good Technology how it feels to have been RIMmed:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/03/28/good_technology_settles_with_lawsuits/

The courts have seen more RIMming in the past three years than Mike Cane did on his last trip to San Francisco. Poor Mike! The little guy must be jealous...


******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Graffiti 1
svrontis @ 2/2/2005 3:52:26 AM # Q
> Step 4: Find + sue every (profitable) company you can find that sells anything using a component even slightly related to your patent.

> Step 5: Hope they'll cut their losses + either settle out of court or licence your "technology".

TVOR is right.

I have a friend, an attorney in Colorado, who has taken this to a higher level. He gets his staff to go through Patents Office records, usually focusing on patents which are about 5 years away from expiry or IT related patents. He then talks to engineers and consultants about who may be using similar techonology. If there is the possibility of a case against a big company, he goes to the patent owner (in many cases a widow or a near bankrupt company) and gets permission to sue on their behalf. The writs start flying soon after that, usually followed by a settlement within a year or two. Settlement moneys are split between the attorney (who covers all the expenses this way) and the patent owner. I can tell you, my friend is doing very well for himself.

RE: Graffiti 1
mikecane @ 2/2/2005 10:28:30 AM # Q
If G1 is ipso facto dead, then guess what?

So is the Palm-over-Linux "OS" --

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-3513_22-5291403.html

Linux lawsuit risk
twrock @ 2/6/2005 12:59:35 AM # Q
Re: sueing the life out of Linux. Since it is not likely the "friends of Linux" that will start it, I really hope Microsoft doesn't go there. I hate this kind of litigation. But if Microsoft does start the attack, I really hope that the rest of the software industry simultaneously and with deliberate intent retaliates and tries to sue the life out of Microsoft.

Reply to this comment

PalmOne Complacency

jwmayo @ 2/1/2005 11:46:46 AM # Q
I agree with Captain Hair, PalmOne's complacency and lack of innovation will be their downfall. Other "leaders" that come to mind who stopped innovating are IBM (PC), Apple, VisiCalc, Lotus 1-2-3, Quattro Pro, etc. Unless PalmOne gets back to an innovative mentality, power users will have no choice but to migrate to PPC.

RE: PalmOne Complacency
jolo @ 12/5/2005 12:56:04 AM # Q
GREAT commentjwmayo,

I would like to add the the complacency that is also that of customer service and taking their customers totally for granted. I would like to add to those that you have posted, who in addition to stopping technical innovation, became arrogant and treated their customers poorly.

I would start with Palm and their amazing act of taking their large market share, having a stongly superior OS to Windoz and then having executive management strip the organization of its reasources, then split into two companies. Palm had to have had one of the most loyal customer basis of any electronics/computer product I have experienced and to see the Executives crap on all of of and their product, really hurts me. So know they are running to Microsoft, to get some more easy money.

Let us not forget companies like Ashton-Tate, Word Perfect, Hewlett-PAckard (went from the best quality to the word quality), Compaq, etc, etc.

get me out of the forums

Reply to this comment

"Too Many MBAs" minus "Zen of Palm" = T5

RhinoSteve @ 2/1/2005 2:36:18 PM # Q
This device screams product planning done by the classic generalist MBA-types. The T5 specifications were determined with all the big name school management and market models. The guys running this product planning didn't know the customer on the trade show floor at all.

Generalizations can kill you in the consumer space. Sony has survived all these decades by doing bazillions of special design twists of devices. Anyone doing Palm devices needs to learn the same thing -- even Sony corporates and not the Palm people they moved to Tokyo to do the CLIE.

Overall, PalmOne "lost their soul" when they did the T5 with Jeff reading reports about rat brains under MRI scans as he wrote his book. With the PalmOne CEO ace'd, it is time for the founders to come home and put this ship back on course.

While the T5 was definately a wonk of a product release, it shook the keel good to make the crew more alert. I predict very good news from Palm this year with the generalists off the ship as the remaining crew gets back to their roots.

Like Apple and McDonald's in the last two years, we are going to see a very good turnaround in 2005 for PalmOne and PalmSource. Cobalt units will ship sooner than anyone here thinks.

RE:
hkklife @ 2/1/2005 3:03:15 PM # Q
With "sooner" likely being spring '05, fall '05 or not until '06, Steve? Your best educated/insider guess, of course. My T3 isn't going to hold out forever!



RE:
mikecane @ 2/1/2005 3:45:50 PM # Q
>>>Overall, PalmOne "lost their soul" when they did the T5

I don't think they ever had a soul. Hawkins never planned for it to be anything but an electronic daytimer. One Palm, Inc. (when it was that) rep who came to a Palm Day event at RCS in NYC made sly comments about what a bunch of jerks we were (basically for *being* there!). And now look at the I-Can't-Find-More-Than-Eight-Things "bug" reply Gekko got.

I didn't call my last piece "We the Suckers" for nothing...

And as for those Palm Apologists Gekko rightly bashed in a past post -- they've moved on. TO POCKET PC!

RE: "Too Many MBAs" minus "Zen of Palm" = T5
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 2/1/2005 11:23:59 PM # Q
Cobalt units will ship sooner than anyone here thinks.

Don't give up the day job, Bubba.

Send my love to your hard drinkin', brawlin', gang bangin' luscious creampie of a wife.



******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: "Too Many MBAs" minus "Zen of Palm" = T5
RhinoSteve @ 2/2/2005 2:28:28 PM # Q
And from you, that is a complement. You still and don't ever get it.

Just watch! PalmSource in May is going to be full of so many surprises, your type will wonder why you didn't get invited to the real party and effort.
RE: "Too Many MBAs" minus "Zen of Palm" = T5
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 2/4/2005 12:02:47 AM # Q
And from you, that is a complement. You still and don't ever get it.

Just watch! PalmSource in May is going to be full of so many surprises, your type will wonder why you didn't get invited to the real party and effort.

No, everyone here gets "it". Just ask your hard drinkin', brawlin', gang bangin' luscious creampie of a wife.

I'll refrain from commenting on your B.S. about PalmSource. Did George ask you to post this nonsense?




******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Tungsten T5, What the heck happened?
RhinoSteve @ 2/4/2005 1:13:00 PM # Q
"At the center of any good production, those that really call the shots, you not find sophisticated gentlemen who started the show. Unstead, you will find a group of pirates and bums who risked everything, had the ability to keep it when 'ligitmate' businessmen try to take over and are still keeping it strong." -- P.T. Barnum

And you "Voice" are no pirate nor bum. That is for sure!

Reply to this comment

This would have been a better T5

mikecane @ 2/1/2005 3:36:39 PM # Q
http://www.hitachi.co.jp/New/cnews/month/2005/02/0201.html

-- running POS, of course. And with GRAFFITI CLASSIC.

RE: This would have been a better T5
Foo Fighter @ 2/4/2005 2:36:50 PM # Q
Not really. It looks like a sweet product, to be sure. But this device is one or two years too late to market. This is what SHARP should have launched years ago instead of the sloppy Linux-based implementation. I don't know if Hitachi is going to have better luck or not, but I highly doubt it. And if the pricing is anything like its Zaurus cousin, this thing is going to fall flatter than a stack of pancakes at IHOP. The days of $700 PDAs are over. Nobody wants a PDA anymore (other than computer geeks), let alone one that costs as much as a decent Notebook PC. Even prices on VGA mobile devices will be falling soon thanks to Dell's cutthroat pricing.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com
Reply to this comment

Totally agree :-(

jackl @ 2/1/2005 5:12:27 PM # Q
I'm a business power user (lawyer) and a T3 owner who's been a Palm owner since 1999 (III -> Vx -> m515 -> T1 -> T2 ->T3). I also thought the T5 a big disappointment and big step backward and am not upgrading at this time.

My biggest issues: plastic-y case, no LED, no cradle, **FUGLY** TE design (most unforgiveable), no voice recorder, new connector/cable obsoleting my Power to Gos, modem sled, charger cables, etc.

I use TealScript for G1 emulation and it works OK for me. Does the T5 not run TealScript (or do some others have issues besides the cost?).

Is there any indication that ANYONE at P1 gets this? Does anyone feel our pain or think this is an issue? Is there anyone who doesn't just think that since PDAs are supposedly a "mature" market that there's no point in innovating or caring anymore?

Does Hawkins get a paycheck from P1 for doing anything PDA related (does he get paid by P1 for writing pop science books)? Are the lights on at P1 and is anyone home? Do they spend any time thinking about great PDAs, or is it just working their obscene golden parachute payouts, polishing their resumes, planning their next great vacation and planning when to jump ship?

Maybe the next candidate for president or CEO should commit his golden parachute payout to R&D. I don't see how the company can survive to do anything when all of its profits seem to go out the door with every gemoke whose been a company officer for a few months time with those multi-million dollar payoffs.

Oh, and aside from being a disgruntled power user, I'm also a disgruntled Palm, Inc. ex-shareholder who (ignoring typical investment advice not to buy tech stocks with your "heart" because you thought the technology was great) had my position finally sold this year by an e-trading company (for account inactivity) fees...but at the time, I'd already seen a ~$2,000 investment go to ~$180, so it was time to write it off anyway...

J


RE: Totally agree :-(
mikecane @ 2/1/2005 6:58:58 PM # Q
>>>I'd already seen a ~$2,000 investment go to ~$180, so it was time to write it off anyway...

The shareholder "owners" have their wealth reduced while the parachuting execs have their wealth increased.

What is wrong with this picture?

(Everything...)

RE: Totally agree :-(
Gekko @ 2/1/2005 7:09:40 PM # Q

>"The shareholder "owners" have their wealth reduced while the parachuting execs have their wealth increased. What is wrong with this picture?"


MikeCon - before you attack capitalism, understand that this is not capitalism, it's THEFT.



RE: Totally agree :-(
joad @ 2/1/2005 11:44:28 PM # Q
Capitalism...theft... please explain the essential difference.
RE: Totally agree :-(
Captain Hair @ 2/2/2005 12:07:15 AM # Q
[b]Capitalism:[/b] Economic system in which goods and services are produced, exchanged and owned by individuals with minimal governmental regulation.
[i]Ethics plays a big part here. The vast majority of companies/individuals are good, moral orginizations/people, but a small minority of greedy bastards ruin it for us all, therefor requiring government regulation. Is there an alternative that you prefer?[/i]
[b]Theft:[/b] The act of taking something from someone unlawfully.
[i]Stealing, while becoming a larger problem in the financial worls (i.e. identity theft), is an inherent side-affect of capitalism, people taking their liberties too far.[/i]
One a side note: More than 3/4 of students think the [url=http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002166500_students01.html]First Amendment goes 'too far'[/url] in providing freedoms. Idiots.

"People who think they're smart annoy those of us who are."
RE: Totally agree :-(
mikecane @ 2/2/2005 10:18:00 AM # Q
Gekko: Given the handle you adopted -- the main character from "Wall Street," who was a crook -- I wasn't sure you knew the difference.

RE: Totally agree :-(
RhinoSteve @ 2/2/2005 4:16:07 PM # Q
Conservatives / Capitalism = theft is legal for everyone who starts a business

Liberals / Socialism = theft is a monoploy held by the goverment

RE: Totally agree :-(
RhinoSteve @ 2/2/2005 4:18:19 PM # Q
Frankly, the problem I see is not the system of shareholding but pretty much the by-laws that are incorporated by PalmSource. Other companies can have proxy votes to cancel bonuses to performing execs.

The problem I see is that too many stockholders are too passive in the companies they buy and trade. Most only look for a quick buck from a bump in the market. If you really care for the company, find the other shareholders, hold shareholder meetings that are not run by the executive board and start to make some influence.

This has been done many times by shareholders of other companies and is in fact allowed and encouraged by current SEC laws. In many cases, what some financial press calls a "takeover" is in fact a shareholder revolt. The HP proxy vote a few years ago that got a lot of press is an example of this.


Reply to this comment

I love my T5! It's flawless!

Zippy @ 2/1/2005 6:38:50 PM # Q
Without sounding like this is just flaming, I really love the T5. I've had every new Palm since the 3X.

I think there is a widening gap between those who use their Palms for more basic and "serious" needs ei: important imformation for the conducting of one's business and those that are insanely lusting after more and more features and gimmicks, madly running around "sniffing" for wi fi spots or whatever else you try and do in your restless and frantic altered state of geek consciousness.

I was the man they targetted the T5 for and they succeeded with flying colors: business user who is not interested in running his microwave oven from his Palm unit but only interested in accessing countless tidbits of information stored therein (and checking his email via bluethooth NOT Wifi, Ugh.) That's it!!

For everything else, there is my trusty desktop Linux box and my less exciting desktop Windows PC.

May I be so bold as to suggest meditation or medication to chill you all out ;-)



RE: I love my T5! It's flawless!
mikecane @ 2/1/2005 7:00:57 PM # Q
Oh stop it. If the T5 is good for you, that's fine.

But there is an entire class of user that p1 has been sticking it to -- the very class that made them a success.

Starting epidemics requires concentrating resources on a few key areas. Connectors, Mavens, and Salesmen are responsible for starting word-of-mouth epidemics, which means. . .your resources ought to be solely concentrated on those three groups. No one else matters. -- Malcolm Gladwell [DoCoMo - Japan's Wireless Tsunami: How One Mobile Telecom Created a New Market and Became a Global Force - John Beck & Mitchell Wade; pg. 34]

RE: I love my T5! It's flawless!
Strider_mt2k @ 2/1/2005 7:33:19 PM # Q
Zippy, your post rings of corporate shillery.

To paint a completely negative picture of the T5 is unrealistic as it does have one or two redeeming features.

To paint a 100% rosey picture of the T5 is just plain absurd however, because you, me, and the rest of these fine folks simply know better!



RE: I love my T5 also, but it's not "flawless"
Cheetah @ 2/1/2005 10:23:30 PM # Q
For me, the T5 is near perfect. I like the full screen/virtual graffitti, hi-res screen, NO slider, lots of memory.

However it's not flawless - I had many compatibility problems when I first got it, and the price is too high considering no cradle and no power light.

RE: I love my T5! It's flawless!
Foo Fighter @ 2/1/2005 11:15:28 PM # Q
Wow! Your T5 is flawless? Can I have it then, because I have yet to find a single PDA let alone T5 which is without flaws.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com
RE: I love my T5! It's flawless!
ackmondual @ 2/2/2005 1:13:13 AM # Q
Surprise surprise. There WILL be ppl who like the T5 b/c:

-They don't miss/need the VR, vibration, LED lights
-make good use of ALL that extra RAM (I've said it bef and i'll say it again, a GIGANTIC SD card isn't a substitute for internal/built in flash RMA)
-no slider is preferred by them.
-don't give a crap about what's missing (cradle, accessory compabitility, etc.)

Well... i do. What bugs me most is not that the T5 is subpar for T3 users, but that the T3 is discontinued and seems to be drying up in stock as the days pass by. The T3 and T5 can coexist, but i shudder to think of a world w/no more T3's

[signature0]the secret to enjoying your job is to have a hobby that's even worse[/signature0]
[signature1]My PDAs: Visor --> Visor Neo (blue) --> Zire 71.... so ends the "marathon", for now[/signature1]

RE: I love my T5! It's flawless!
Zippy @ 2/2/2005 1:15:33 AM # Q
NO you can't have it: I love it, remember.

RE: I love my T5! It's flawless!
gidora @ 2/2/2005 5:56:11 PM # Q
My T5 works okay *stock*, but I like it tricked out so I can be more productive. Unfortunately that's where the T5 suffers most - maybe it's the price you pay for any bleeding edge technology. My nearly bullet-proof TT also had a pile of hacks, mostly to offset the DISFUNCTIONALITY of its "novel" slider. Ditto my Visor Prism when it was the only color PDA on the block.

I posted a thread a while back on some workarounds for T5 issues. I was hoping others would do the same which is why even bother to poke around PIC -- not engage in witless banter with hardcore ideologues.

http://tinyurl.com/4pfx9


Casio(256k)>Psion Siena(1M)> Visor Prism(8M)> TungstenT(16M)>T5(256M!)

RE: I love my T5! It's flawless!
Entropy @ 2/18/2005 7:56:18 AM # Q
I got a (second-hand) T5 recently to replace my Visor Prism.
Bottom line - I like it a lot.
It's light, is pretty thin and has excellent battery life and a good screen.
The lack of WiFi that seems to have some very vocal people upset matters not at all to me - everywhere there is WiFI for me to hop onto, I also have access to screens larger than 4 inches or so, and prefer using those.

So - is it ideal?
No, I totally agree that the current text entry method is clunky, and inexcusably laggy.
And I feel that a PDA should always ship with a good cover, a flip cover doesn't cut it (regardless of material!). But this is fixable at a cost.

But there are unexpected positives, such as a headphone jack that has sufficient output for less easily driven phones, and the battery life when used as an mp3-player (shuts down screen) is enormous. And the OS features such as screen orientation switching is smoother than expected, and the updated PIM apps are really nice.

I'm not a gadget freak. I'll use this PDA for as long as it does its job, and nothing else comes around that does something new that I absolutely want. And the only thing I'd _really_ want is a good OLED screen. I care very little for tech cool, but care a lot about the day to day functionality. And there, the T5 does a very good job.
All IMHO, of course.

Reply to this comment

Goin' backwards

hmgreen @ 2/2/2005 10:01:09 PM # Q
I own a Tungsten C (early adopter - mine will be 2 years old this May). Let's see - it runs OS 5, has a thumbboard, will run Jot or Grafitti, has built-in (if "kludgey") Wi-Fi, a high-rees color screen, 64 M of RAM, a 400 MHz chip, a universal connector, runs (at this point) a 512M SD card, vibrates on alarms, has an LED that shows both charging AND Wi-Fi activity. What does it NOT do? No stereo for MP3's (which if I want that I will buy an IPod), no bluetooth (but I don't use this as a modem so who cares), and no slider (OK - I would like a bigger screen and horizontal mode but ya' can't have everything .... ). Sure some PPC's have more RAM, but then their apps are memory hogs, so no gain there.

In other words, with a few additional tweaks, the "C" would have been for many people the perfect PDA (add a bigger screen, more RAM, bluetooth, an extra slot, and telephony and you would have had it ALL) and not only is it a 2-year old (in this business, read "ancient") model, but Palm no longer makes or sells it and few people talk about it except current owners. In its place we have had $400 machines with larger screens with all the shortcomings mentioned above as well as bad digitizers, etc.

Palm needs to wake up, and start to improve on a model that provides real functionality! They should have been either a) improving on the "C", b) merging it with the "T" series, or c)combining it with the Treo (notice how the Treo's resemble the "C"? Just add the functionality mentioned above and there it is!).

OK, don't flame me. I'm done venting. Maybe someone from PalmOne will read these complaints (no, I am not holding my breath) and do something to provide users with something compelling - or they can just lie down and wait for everyone to go to the PPC because they are sick of waiting for a high-end unit.



Reply to this comment

Have Palm's pricing department had a reality check?

Masamune @ 2/4/2005 2:51:30 PM # Q
One of the comments I've picked up on about the T5 again and again is that it's not fit as a successor to the T3. I've noticed on certain websites that the price is starting to fall. If the price were to fall to just above the price of a TE - would you honestly consider buying one?

My point is that if Palm HAD launched it as a successor to the TE rather than the T3 at an appropriate price - would people still be flaming it? Not half as much as they are now...

RE: Have Palm's pricing department had a reality check?
mikecane @ 2/4/2005 2:59:18 PM # Q
No. I would not buy it even at a TE price.

1) Too incompatible

2) They messed up the Photos app

3) No G1

I could go on, but this has been hashed over and over and over...

RE: Have Palm's pricing department had a reality check?
twrock @ 2/5/2005 8:33:09 PM # Q
Tough call. I'm not sure what the T5 would have to drop to before I would consider it. And I don't ever envision it coming down to the TE price range. On the other hand, I'd definitely pay $25 more for a TE2 with full-screen.

Reckon the Number of the Beast
Gekko @ 2/5/2005 9:08:48 PM # Q
"Woe to you Oh Earth and Sea
for the Devil sends the beast with wrath
because he knows the time is short
Let him who hath understanding
reckon the number of the beast
for it is a human number
its number is T5"


RE: Have Palm's pricing department had a reality check?
mikecane @ 2/6/2005 7:56:08 PM # Q
Gekko's right!

It's all right here:

antichrist.com

The top SINGLES FEMALE resources on the net

http://www.antichrist.com

RE: Have Palm's pricing department had a reality check?
mikecane @ 2/6/2005 8:00:17 PM # Q
Reply to this comment

Proofreading?

sub_tex @ 2/7/2005 3:07:06 PM # Q
No way to know if itís charging unless I turn it one?

you better through in a cradle.

absence of the sproing stylus

pa1One had a release schedule to conform to

;)

RE: Proofreading?
Akula_dude @ 3/28/2005 12:02:12 PM # Q
Okay...

I've read enough.
What would YOU GUYS want in a "Palmone Tungsten T7"?
Personally I'd want a VGA screen (almost impossible to find one that's not PPC), 512mhz processor, 128mb ram, SDIO now!, WiFi, Bluetooth class 1 v1.2 or 2.0, slider design (or flip-twist, dont mind), and a USER REPLACEABLE BATTERY!!!

And call me hopefull, but for less than 250 british pounds (I think that's more or less about $450)

Let me hear what you would want

Akula

Reply to this comment

T3 to the Rescue!

aytaylor @ 4/11/2005 3:13:46 PM # Q
Derek,

You are so on the mark with your comments. I have been on the phone iwht PalmOne for months and finally got my T5 working half decently; but in the end... I still fell back to my old trusted T3.

PalmOne truly disappointed me on this one!


Reply to this comment
Start a New Comment Thread Top

Account

Register Register | Login Log in
user:
pass: