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Comments on: Study Predicts Steep Decline for PDA Market

The traditional PDA is heading for significant declines in sales, and in fact is nearing the end of its life as a major product segment, according to In-Stat. Shipments reached only 8.7 million units in 2004, down from 10 million in 2003, the high-tech market research firm says.
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We'll See

Wollombi @ 3/2/2005 1:54:14 PM # Q
While some of what they say makes some sense, overall it is still nothing more than throwing the bones and trying to predict the future by they way they fall.

The market for traditional PDA's may shrink, or they may evolve into better, more capable devices. Personally, the more I can do with a device that fits easily and comfotably in my pocket, the better, but only in a device that does all of it's functions well enought that I don't miss a dedicated unit for that particular function.

_________________
Sean

There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.

RE: We'll See
RhinoSteve @ 3/2/2005 4:23:43 PM # Q
I second this. This is a "throwing bones" article to say the least.

Remember the people who write this stuff are mostly failed marketing types that have become journalist hacks that instinctively follow instead of innovating and following.

Eight years ago, these guy were also predicting that Apple was going to go broke. Frankly, there is always an innovation around the corner that smacks complacency heavy. That is what I love about this space!

Reply to this comment

With products like these... no duh!

adamsmark @ 3/2/2005 1:49:23 PM # Q
Let's face it:

1. PDA's are too expensive. The PalmOne T5 is $400 the HP iPAQ hx4700 (the nicest PPC I've every seen) is $649. For a small hand-held computer, that's pretty steep. These are great machines, but in a world of Mp3 players, digital cameras, and cell phones, are these appropriately priced?

2. PDA's haven't kept up with expectations. This really isn't anyone's fault, but ever since the Apple Newton, users' expectations have been unrealistic--text recognition, battery life, etc. Nevertheless, PDA manufacturers should at least try to keep up with expectations.

3. PDA users never get what they really want. Some want their PDA to replace their laptop. But since companies keep changing their connection points, how are users to keep up. Having to buy new accessories every time you upgrade your handheld is quite irritating. With Palm, when will we get Wifi and Bluetooth in one unit? When will we get G1? When will be get the top-of-line, full-size screen (one that doesn't hum). When will we get a unit with decent battery life?

The PDA market will decline because PDA manufacturers really aren't giving us a reason to shell out more bucks.

RE: With products like these... no duh!
palmdoc88 @ 3/2/2005 2:30:18 PM # Q
"The PDA market will decline because PDA manufacturers really aren't giving us a reason to shell out more bucks."

Amen to that.

T3 & T5 user

RE: With products like these... no duh!
LiveFaith @ 3/2/2005 5:00:50 PM # Q
I agree too. Being a Palm OS user with a T3 gives little or no incentive to upgrade for going on 18 months now. I'm not whining, but this is true.

At $400 & $600, we need to be seeing nice hard drives for movie & music, multi-wireless, GPS, larger screen on the same real estate and legitimate cause to dump the laptops. Hope springs eternal this spring. Maybe the Veld cometh! Hehe

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: With products like these... no duh!
Midknyte @ 3/2/2005 5:22:25 PM # Q
"2. PDA's haven't kept up with expectations. This really isn't anyone's fault, but ever since the Apple Newton, users' expectations have been unrealistic--text recognition, battery life, etc. Nevertheless, PDA manufacturers should at least try to keep up with expectations."

My expectations are not unrealistic - all I want is the inclusion of off-the-shelf technology.

MiniHarddrive!
MiniHarddrive!
MiniHarddrive!


RE: With products like these... no duh!
Patrick @ 3/2/2005 6:55:37 PM # Q
I upgraded every year (sometimes more often than once a year) until the T5 came along. I had the bucks, all P1 needed was to produce a device that gave me more, not less. Alas, my bucks are still in my bank, not P1's.

Phisical style or form factor
Roberto_tores @ 3/2/2005 9:22:04 PM # Q
one important factor in the declining sales is the form factor. Compare the T5 and iPAQ hx4700 to the palm V and iPAQ 1910. PDAs are gettin bulky square and plastic.

if new devices like the palm V and iPAQ 1910 appear again the market will increase

RE: With products like these... no duh!
svrontis @ 3/3/2005 6:32:19 AM # Q
Roberto tores, I agree with you brother.

Sorry to interupt all the gloomy predictions, but has anyone noticed that that the Discussion Forums are just as full as ever with posts from Newbies (bless them) asking really basic questions about their new palmpilots? Someone had better tell these guys that the whole palmpilot industry is doomed and that they wasted their hard earned money (as have the likes of M$, HP, Dell, etc).

RE: With products like these... no duh!
cbowers @ 3/3/2005 1:24:09 PM # Q
"My expectations are not unrealistic - all I want is the inclusion of off-the-shelf technology.


MiniHarddrive!
MiniHarddrive!
MiniHarddrive!"

Then I guess you might have bought a HandEra. People were putting Microdrives in them 4 years ago.

It's why the PocketPC camp has their hardware heads on straight with dual slots, SD/CF. You can plunk in the same 3/4/6 Gig CF hard drives that the likes of the Ipod Mini, and other MP3 players are sporting.

RE: With products like these... no duh!
Bexa @ 3/4/2005 6:05:27 AM # Q
Hey! I'm still carrying my Tungsten T around. With a 1 gig SD card and my Sony-Ericsson bluetooth phone, it's hard to justify any kind of upgrade. I wait for the killer Palm PDA that will tempt me away from my current configuration...but I'm not holding my breath. And I'm not tempted to go over to the "dark" side either.

Reply to this comment

I'm moving on.

angerson @ 3/2/2005 2:33:35 PM # Q
I'm a PDA junky. I've owned dozens of PDAs from the Newton up to the T3 and I'm generally an active community member on PDA sites, I mean heck I even designed the new PDA Buzz website (sorry). I just love tech gadgets and while the "cool toy" factor of these devices somewhat always outweighed their usefulness, I did rely on my handheld to help me run my business.

With that said, this past Friday my business burned down due to a fire in an adjacent restaurant. I lost simply everything, including every PDA I still owned. While insurance will cover a small portion of my loss and will allow me to purchase new equipment, I have to admit I surprised myself when a PDA did not make it to my list of replacement items. I've decided that moving forward, at least for the short term, I'm not going to replace my T3.

Maybe I'm just jaded because the company formerly known as Palm appears to be floundering without direction. Maybe I'm upset because although I've owned many PPCs, the software never lives up to the hardware. Or maybe I just realized that I'm strapped for cash and plunking down $300 - $500 for an organizer that doesn't have an essential position in my current workflow is simply not a wise move on my part.

Who knows? The point is, at least for me, it's time to move on. Sure I'll be back, but it's gonna take something a bit more revolutionary than yet another repackaged Palm or clunky, five-clicks-to-quit-an-application PPC. And sadly I suspect a lot of people feel this way. Without an incentive to upgrade, we just won't.

RE: I'm moving on.
rav @ 3/2/2005 3:58:37 PM # Q
I must agree with your comments... after owning almost every PDA out there I don't think I'd replace my T2 if something would happen to it. No WiFi, falling-out screws, change of connectors on new models (and most of the new P1 PDAs don't even have a hotsync/charging cradle anymore), high price (paid a ridiculous $350 for the T2 new about a year ago), plus the loss of Sony as a major player, re-empahsizes the doom of the PDA market.

If anything, I would probably invest in one of those $25 Casio or Sharp organizers to store names and addresses and might look into getting one of those micro laptop computers (a la Dell 700m or Sony T150) instead of ever buying another PDA again.

Thanks Palm, P1... you were on the leading edge of technology at one point and in the past few months you have dopped the ball (can you say T5) on the market that you once owned...

RE: I'm moving on.
LiveFaith @ 3/2/2005 5:06:30 PM # Q
rav,
Just visualize all that cavernous flash RAM ... breath in, breath out ... relax ... very good.

Are you ready to plunk down the $400 now? P1 is bundling the TE2 with keyboards, cases, SD cards ... hopefully they'll even throw in a T3? :-o

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: I'm moving on.
joad @ 3/7/2005 1:13:15 PM # Q
"Just visualize all that cavernous flash RAM..."

Yes, the addition of NVFS seems to be all the major "innovation" that Palm has produced in the last 18 months or so...

Gee thanks, PalmOne- you designed an "upgrade" to the Treo 600 with 60% of the RAM... making it unusable as an upgrade. The nice thing is that since it will sit in a drawer unused - years from now when you plug it in you will still be able to see all your old data!

You would think a company in the financial condition of PalmOne would aim to get all the guaranteed sales of "power users" that they would have had with better units, rather than design underpowered garbage that we must leave unsold on the shelves because they are WORSE than our 1-2 year old units. Not that I don't appreciate having the extra spending cash ;)

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PDA Market

JarJar @ 3/2/2005 2:59:43 PM # Q
The move from PDA to smart phone is neither good nor bad; it is neither cause to gloat nor despair. It is simply a natural evolution of the market.

If Palm (both of them) is paying attention they need to be players in this market. They need to have products in the lower and higher ends of the market. I expect a lower priced product to have fewer features (but not intentional crippling). I expect lower margins at both ends.

I am not so naive as to demand a cheap device that has all features.

The mobile phone market has tighter margins. Unless Palm is equipped to accept this, they will die. If they maintain PDA style margins, they will do better in the short run and shoot their own foot in the long run.

RE: PDA Market
LiveFaith @ 3/2/2005 5:09:12 PM # Q
Oh, that my T3 had about a 1500mah battery and GSM/GPRS/EDGE. Just like it is and I would be in hardware heaven. Keep the PDA-centicity and add the phone aka T|W style. Don't know if the market is there tho?

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: PDA Market
Wollombi @ 3/3/2005 2:07:32 PM # Q
Given how the original Blackberries did, I would say there is definately A market, but it's not THE market. Traditional Blackberries did very well. Now imagine if they had all that Blackberry goodness while running the PalmOS...

Excuse me....I need to go cry.

_________________
Sean

There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.

Reply to this comment

Really Appreciating My Tungsten T3

Sid_Sid @ 3/2/2005 3:39:17 PM # Q
It's news like this that really makes me appreciate my Tungsten T3, the last great PDA from Palm. I'm not looking forward to the day that I need (not want) to replace it, so I'm hanging on to it for as long as possible.

RE: Really Appreciating My Tungsten T3
rikster @ 3/2/2005 4:32:58 PM # Q
Same here mate. I'm sticking with my T3 - it certainly is the best handheld palmOne ever made. It will probably become the best handheld they ever make - as now they are producing high priced plastic impressions with features missing.

RE: Really Appreciating My Tungsten T3
MarcusRonning @ 3/3/2005 11:31:23 PM # Q
I have been a Palm loyalist, guru, you name it. From a PIM standpoint the Palm Rules.

But Palm must not be reading the PDA websites or seeing all the Pocket PC's with built in Wi Fi. If the trend continues and the Palm users are spat on again and again.....where do they think we are going.......

Wake up Palm, or the Pocke PC will be next to my PC soon.

I agree the T3 rocks, still my Palm of choice. The T5 took out my voice recorder, are you kidding.....I am in sales and leave about 15 voice reminders a day..... Thanks to the 1GB SD Card...

I am sorry but I can't use the Treo, I want the full screen...

The Black Berry with a Palm OS would be very nice!!!

Palm is in big trouble unless they change their ways, and quickly.....

Plug the holes, right the ship, and wake the hell up!!

Reply to this comment

Add hard drive or 6 GB Flash / Rinse / Repeat

pkuhns @ 3/2/2005 4:31:38 PM # Q
I know this market is tanking courtesy of amazing cell phones like this one:

http://www.infosyncworld.com/news/n/5787.html

But Palm can keep their margins and set themselves apart. If they don't get bought by Apple, then tell them to MAKE A HARD-DRIVE BASED PALM!

Yes honest injun its that simple. Make a device similar to this:

http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/consumer/consDetail.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&oid=49164278#

Just make it the same size as the Palm V or Zire 72. The Palm OS is refined and has thousands of apps. Beat M$ to the punch by placing a 6 GB flash or 40 GB hard drive and release some software similar to Photoshop.

Price it at $299 (the sweet spot). Every digital photographer, mp3 junkie would move to Palm devices and the market would continue...

NX70 addict...

RE: Add hard drive or 6 GB Flash / Rinse / Repeat
Surur @ 3/4/2005 3:00:36 PM # Q
I suggest this device (The MDA IV) will get the PDA converts, not a stupid input deficient smartphone.

http://www.infosyncworld.com/news/n/5819.html

Surur

Reply to this comment

The Death of Connected PDAs

EdFrmBrighthand @ 3/2/2005 4:49:12 PM # Q
This is just another article pointing out that sales of non-cellular-wireless handhelds are declining. Sales of handhelds with built-in cellular-wireless modems are actually increasing.

Therefore, it's clear that handhelds aren't dead; instead, unconnected PDAs are on their way out. I think it's a little too soon to close the coffin (millions of unconnected handhelds are still being sold each year) but that's definitely the direction we are headed.

Also, this article ignores that many non-cellular-wireless handhelds are using Bluetooth-enabled mobile phones as modems.

So take this study with a grain of salt. When it says "PDA," you should fill in "PDA with no wireless capabilities at all." And the fact that non-wireless PDAs are going to be eventually phased out has been clear for most of the last 5 years.

There's nothing exciting at all in this report. It's simply pointing out the obvious. It's only its poor choice of terms that makes it seem important.
.

-----
Editor-in-Chief
Brighthand.com

RE: The Death of Connected PDAs
mikecane @ 3/2/2005 6:29:35 PM # Q
It's good to see that not being able to edit Comments has finally hit *you* too. "Death of Connected PDAs" -- ha!

Reply to this comment

Smartphones Overestimated

Gekko @ 3/2/2005 5:23:01 PM # Q

i think everyone is overestimating the smartphone market just like they overestimated the pda market back in the late 90s. Back in the late 90s, pda demand was going to grow to the sky. REMEMBER THAT??????????????? And remember when the bottom dropped out??????

history repeats. palmone is a one-trick donkey that will hit the wall with overpriced niche smartphones just like they did with pdas. all of a sudden you wake up and demand has retarded and you got inventory backlog and the bottom drops out. mark my words.

(reposted from my forum post)



RE: Smartphones Overestimated
mikecane @ 3/2/2005 6:30:33 PM # Q
That's why PalmSource went and bought CMS. When they fear their fat paychecks are on the line, they smarten up fast. Expect to see a PalmSource (NOT PalmOS!) OS for El Cheapo Chinese Fall-Apart Phones before we *ever* see a full-fledged Palmix running on a conventional PDA!

As for Cobalt... just as in the old Soviet Union, it is now an unperson. Never existed. Got that?

And Gekko, you won't be able to complain one damned bit about this, you running dog of the UberDollar. They will just be doing what makes *economic sense*.

RE: Smartphones Overestimated
mikecane @ 3/2/2005 6:37:28 PM # Q
And let's all remember something:

palmOne is a *hardware* company

PalmSource is a *software* company

**NEITHER** one has to stick with PalmOS.

Think about that for a moment.

Scary, ain't it?

RE: Smartphones Overestimated
mikecane @ 3/2/2005 6:58:59 PM # Q
Which brings us to this interesting question: Will PalmSource change its name? PhoneSource? At least they get to keep all the monogrammed corporate shizzle...

RE: Smartphones Overestimated
Gekko @ 3/2/2005 7:01:19 PM # Q
>And Gekko, you won't be able to complain one damned bit about this, you running dog of the UberDollar. They will just be doing what makes *economic sense*.

no man. penny-wise and pound-foolish is a bad strategy.



RE: Smartphones Overestimated
mikecane @ 3/2/2005 8:31:28 PM # Q
Where's the pound foolish?! You just Uzied their idea of smartphones! The low end is the fat end, when it comes to the market. Gates is low-end, Apple is high-end. Who brings in the most loot?

Get over it. PalmOS is dead. You'll be glad to have its functionality in a phone you can pick up for $50 and throw away when the paint starts to rub off on your hand. Which, given your sweaty palms... should make everyone involved much money!

RE: Smartphones Overestimated
Foo Fighter @ 3/2/2005 11:14:31 PM # Q
"Gentlemen, please! You can't fight in here! This is the War Room!"

...a little quote from Dr. Strangelove.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com

RE: Smartphones Overestimated
mikecane @ 3/5/2005 10:51:26 AM # Q
"Mein Fuhrer! I can walk!!"

You ain't the only cultured one here, Foo...

Reply to this comment

Maybe they need to do a real study?

AJG @ 3/2/2005 7:02:27 PM # Q
I know some of the greatest marketing minds probably helped in this study *cough* but I have a problem with it. They are only looking at numbers but not why it is happening. Although It does seem to hold true that handheld sales are down, for me it isn't about not getting a traditional PDA it is about getting a really good PDA. I have had my Tungsten T2 for some times. I have not upgraded because there isn't a PDA out there that can fit my TT2's nitch. The T3's battery life was mediocre, the T5 got rid of the sliding design and didn't add Bluetooth. I've thought about PocketPC but there is the problem that I don't want to return to a Windows based OS. I'm not ready to get a smartphone... they are too big and I am not willing to got out to a bar with a brick in my pants. I still want my small phone. So... when the PDA (PalmOne I'm talking to you!) makes something that I feel can replace my TT2, then I will buy it. Until then, myself and I feel many others, are going to stick with their current ones. I still have a friend with a Palm Vx because there isn't anything out there he wants. Is the PDA industry dead or are the upgraded models not worth upgrading to?

-AJ
RE: Maybe they need to do a real study?
Gekko @ 3/2/2005 7:15:08 PM # Q

True. As a leader, it's PalmOne's and PalmSource's responsibility to create innovative, high quality products to DRIVE growth and demand. Look at MSFT, INTC, DELL - and even APPLE (post Jobs) - they are constantly stimulating demand by DRAMATICALLY LOWERING COSTS WHILE AT THE SAME TIME INNOVATING/ IMPROVING PRODUCTS!

RE: Maybe they need to do a real study?
svrontis @ 3/2/2005 8:38:47 PM # Q
> the T5 got rid of the sliding design and didn't add Bluetooth.

Actually, the T5 does come with Bluetooth. It doesn't have WiFI. It doesn't have a 12-volt lead acid car battery either (which would be necessary if you want to run WiFi for any length of time).

RE: Maybe they need to do a real study?
cbowers @ 3/3/2005 1:59:40 PM # Q
Please. That's a tired and inaccurate argument. Do the math before you post (or at least ask a Tungsten C user about their battery life). And then look around and see that we're getting to be about the only platform that hasn't embraced WiFi.

Or maybe do a continuous ping rundown test with a bluetooth network connection and shock yourself at your battery usage rate.

The battery life issue with bluetooth vs. wifi has little to do with milliamps and more to do with usage profiles.

If all I was to do with WiFi (pretending it was possible) was dial the odd phone number (PDA to Cellphone), a hotsync once or twice a day, or stream a few several minute phone calls to a headset, my wifi radio wouldn't be on very much either.

But use your bluetooth connection for the same network heavy tasks, for the same extended periods, and you'll be wanting a 1500mAh battery in your bluetoothed Tungsten as well.

RE: Maybe they need to do a real study?
svrontis @ 3/4/2005 4:32:35 PM # Q
You're right, I have not done the math. However, I believe that p1's decision to go with BT (and not WiFi) in the T, T2, T3, Zire 72 and T5 was based largely on an engineering decision - WiFi just uses more power that BT. Which leads to a trade off: (a) do you add WiFi and a bigger battery, which necessarily means a bigger and heavier palmpilot? OR (b) do you go for a more reasonable size/weight? (Compare the size and shape of the TC with the T5 to see what this trade-off means.)

Many of the posts here at PIC claim that p1 are not innovative because they have not included WiFi in many of their models. Personally, I think that criticism is unfair. Don't forget that the TC was one of the first models on the market with WiFi - which means that p1 have the knowhow to add WiFi if they wanted to. But I think that engineering issues drove them away from WiFi.

This whole debate reminds me of what happened with the m505. Remember the howls about how dim the screen was on the m505? Clearly, the engineers had set the screen brightness in a way to preserve battery power for as long as possible, but a lot of users didn't seem to understand this. p1's reaction was to set screen brightness much higher on later models, to the detriment of battery life. The result is that I now have a wonderful TE, which even on the lowest brightness setting chews up the battery power pretty quickly. So I now have to run the EnergyDimmer application to set brightness to level much lower than the lowest factory setting, so as to preserve power. (Which means, of course, that p1's engineers were right in the first place!)

I fear that p1 will react to the current complaints by adding WiFi to most of their units in the future, which will require a bigger battery, which in turn will result in future models being the size of bricks. That is absolutely the last thing I want (especially as I have no desire to use WiFi), but this is probably where we will end up.

Sorry for the long post. Sometimes I think people get carried away with their demands for hardware features, without thinking about what it means in terms of the inescapable design/engineering compromises.

Bullsh!t
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 3/5/2005 12:03:49 AM # Q
OK, svrontis: why is it that other manufacturers (Sony + numerous PPC manufacturers) can ship PDAs with Wi-Fi + great battery life, but Palm can't? What's that? Can't hear you.





*************************************************************************************

Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

*************************************************************************************





******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Maybe they need to do a real study?
svrontis @ 3/5/2005 5:47:43 AM # Q
OK, here goes:

1. The title to your post is as eloquent as ever.

2. The TH55 is the only Sony WiFi enabled model (which I know of) which had a reasonable size. The battery life on the TH55 has been rated at about 3 hours with WiFi switched on (refer to mobiletechreview.com).

3. With the exception of the iPAQ 4150/4155, all of HP's units with WiFi are bricks (and ugly bricks at that). The iPAQ 4155 was rated at about 2 hours of battery when using WiFi (refer to the review at mobiletechreview.com).

4. The details on the Dell Axim X50v are a little sketchy - mobiletechreview.com rates the battery life at about 3 hours, but they ran a WiFi connection for only an hour during their test.

5. I don't know about you, but 2 or 3 hours between charges doesn't cut the mustard, not the way I use my palmpilot.

RE: Maybe they need to do a real study?
mikecane @ 3/5/2005 10:53:29 AM # Q
Geez.... listen! I use a *TE* -- NO BT, NO WiFi and I *still* have to charge it TWICE a damned day. Having to go through THAT, I'd GLADLY change *THRICE* a day if WiFi was built-in, dammit!

RE: Maybe they need to do a real study?
mikecane @ 3/5/2005 10:55:06 AM # Q
Yeah, yeah... damned typo. change = charge

(No comments from you, Gekko, about my clothing habits...)

To my pal, svrontis:
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 3/5/2005 3:16:31 PM # Q
OK, here goes:

1. The title to your post is as eloquent as ever.

2. The TH55 is the only Sony WiFi enabled model (which I know of) which had a reasonable size. The battery life on the TH55 has been rated at about 3 hours with WiFi switched on (refer to mobiletechreview.com).

3. With the exception of the iPAQ 4150/4155, all of HP's units with WiFi are bricks (and ugly bricks at that). The iPAQ 4155 was rated at about 2 hours of battery when using WiFi (refer to the review at mobiletechreview.com).

4. The details on the Dell Axim X50v are a little sketchy - mobiletechreview.com rates the battery life at about 3 hours, but they ran a WiFi connection for only an hour during their test.

5. I don't know about you, but 2 or 3 hours between charges doesn't cut the mustard, not the way I use my palmpilot.

Buddy. The TH55 with Wi-Fi ON gets better battery life than many of Palm's current PDAs get with no Wi-Fi. Same goes for a few Dells and HPs. Compare their battery life when not using Wi-Fi to Palm and it's a blowout. Is there some reason a T3 or TE WITHOUT Wi-Fi can only last 2 or 3 hours on a charge? It's not as if these models are pushing the envelope in terms of packaging...

1) Thank you.

2) Sony's UX50 is even smaller than the TH55. But for extended Wi-Fi use you really need to get the EB40 extended battery.

3) HP's current designs are a step backward. Look at its previous generation for better models.

4) The Dell gets good battery life and I believe an extended battery is also available.

5) No one really cares how YOU use your PDA, but if non-Wi-Fi Palms are now only getting 3 hours battery life, getting the same time with a Wi-Fi PPC or CLIE sounds like a pretty good deal. Think about it.

Have a seat, Buddy. Next time try to come up with an argument that actually makes sense.







*************************************************************************************

Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

*************************************************************************************





******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

Another Wi-Fi CLIE that makes Palm look bad:
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 3/5/2005 4:14:50 PM # Q
I forgot to mention the TJ37 also has Wi-Fi and is tiny.

Most of us that have been around for a while remember that for years Palm claimed no one needed color screens, video, MP3 and other advanced features on their PDAs. They claimed this was because the "Zen of Palm" prized simplicity over features. In reality, they excluded those features just to save money (in development + manufacturing). Eventually Palm had to start adding in the missing features (or else watch sales nosedive).

Fast forward to 2004-5 and we see Wi-Fi still MIA. Why? Guess.





*************************************************************************************

Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

*************************************************************************************





******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Maybe they need to do a real study?
svrontis @ 3/5/2005 9:19:23 PM # Q
Are you saying that the mobiletechreview.com stats are inaccurate? If so, please provide details (rather than your usual vague assertions).

By the way, grasshopper, when you refer to Sony models you should use the PAST tense because, in case you hadn't noticed, Sony have withdrawn from the palmpilot market.

RE: Maybe they need to do a real study?
cbowers @ 3/6/2005 12:08:37 PM # Q
Dunno, maybe so.

Just looking at the Dell x50 and the HP 4700. They're both slightly smaller than the Tungsten C in most dimensions. And all 3 are essentially the same weight.

And yet both PPC's have dual slots, a larger display (and more pixels being VGA screens), faster processors (624Mhz), bluetooth and wifi, swappable batteries (not only handy but to the Tungsten C specs detriment, takes up more space), and the burden of the MS operating system.

They pack a lot more into the same or smaller package, and the battery life is still in the same ballpark (all things considered), maybe better.

Brighthand puts the HP 4700 in the 6 hour range, and the x50 in the 3-4 hour range. My tungsten in minimum brightness and no wifi is in the 7 hour range, but that's again with a smaller display, slower processor, and a less burdensome OS.

The HP has a larger battery than the Tungsten C, and the Dell has a smaller one. But now I'll blow the Tungsten C's 7 hour battery life figure out of the water and mention that the above battery life figures for the Dell and HP includes Wifi usage (in Ed's words "did a good bit of Web surfing, checked my email.. that sort of thing"). Throw in WiFi on the Tungsten C and I charge every day or so, switch it on between 10 and 40 times a day, and over the last 2 weeks (according to BatteryGraph) have used it a maximum of 5hrs 27min and an average of 2hrs per day. All of that a minimum brightness (which I find is still too bright).

Seems to me the competition is less brick-like than my Palm, and worse they manage to pack a *lot* more per inch/oz/$ into their devices than PalmOne can. And manage to keep respectable/comparable battery life in despite the disadvantage of the OS.

-Craig

----------------------
The specs

Tungsten C: 4.8" x 3.07" x .66; 6.27oz Battery: 1500mAh
HP hx4700: 5.2" x 3.0" x .6"; 6.6oz Battery: 1800 mAh.
Dell x50: 4.65" x2.85" x .7"; 6.02oz Battery: 1100 mAh


You're amazing srvontis. Did Mike Cane train you?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 3/6/2005 2:08:40 PM # Q
Are you saying that the mobiletechreview.com stats are inaccurate? If so, please provide details (rather than your usual vague assertions).

By the way, grasshopper, when you refer to Sony models you should use the PAST tense because, in case you hadn't noticed, Sony have withdrawn from the palmpilot market.


As a disciple of Cane-style Rant-Fu, you must understand the ancient techniques of arguing a point until death despite overwhelming evidence showing you are wrong. I won't even tell you what I found personally testing various PDAs, since you'd no doubt claim I made the numbers up. Instead, go out and find other tests yourself and we'll see if you have the temerity to show your cur-like face around here again. Begone! Return only when you have achieved enlightenment. (And please stop stealing my "Grasshopper" line.)

Yes, Sony CLIEs might not be available these days, but that doesn't change the fact that Sony's PDAs set the standard. The standard that pa1mOne seems unable/unwilling to achieve. Sony leaving only will hasten the demise of the PalmOS platform, so if you like PalmOS you'll regret their decision to pull out.

When reading reports on battery life testing, pay attention to whether or not the tester is using wireless actively, what screen backlight intensity is used, whether or not the PDA is used continuously, which size battery is in use, reprodicibility, sample error, battery condition, whether or not the tests are done using real world use or a looping battery test program, etc, etc. Because all of these variables are rarely mentioned or controlled for, I've found the only reliable tests are the ones I do myself: real world use + using a battery timer. But sincn I enjoy biotch slapping you so much, here are a few sites to get you started:

http://www.bargainpda.com/default.asp?newsID=2258&review=Dell+Axim+X50

"Battery

All the X50s come with a removable, replacable 1100 milliamp-hour Lithium Ion rechargable battery. If you need more battery life, you can buy a second 1100 milliamp-hour standard capacity battery to swap into the Axim when the first battery runs low, or get a high-capacity 2200 mAh extended battery that increases the size of the device, but offers significantly more runtime between charges.

All battery tests listed were performed with the standard 1100 mAh battery. Dell didn't send me one of the extended batteries, so I can't offer any definite tests on them. However, it's reasonable to extrapolate from capacity, meaning that the twice-as-large battery should offer about twice as much life. In wireless tests, WiFi self-deactivated at 25% battery remaining, and Bluetooth was active until the device shut down. These first tests are mostly pessimistic in nature, meant to measure a bare minimum of projected battery life, rather than actual everyday usage.

X50 Advanced
Max. brightness, processor active: 3 hours, 59 minutes
50% brightness, processor active: 4 hours, 25 minutes
50% brightness, wireless on: 5 hours, 52 minutes


X50v
Max. brightness, processor active: 2 hours, 43 minutes
50% brightness, processor active: 3 hours, 26 minutes
50% brightness, wireless on: 3 hours, 44 minutes

The tests leave no doubt that the sharper screen and faster processor on the X50v can eat into its battery life. However, I also ran another test, this time optimistically, designed to find out what the maximum battery life of the X50v is. I turned the screen to the minimum level of brightness--which is actually still quite bright--and left the processor mostly idle, as it would be for simple tasks like reading, typing, and PIM.

X50v maximum life: Approximately 8 hours, 30 minutes [AND REMEMBER, THAT'S USING THE STANDARD 1100 MILLIAMP-HOUR BATTERY!]

Not bad at all if you're not trying to kill the battery, and the X50 Advanced would probably be even better. It's an inescapable fact of mobile computing that if you crank up the screen brightness, turn on the wireless, and get that ultrafast processor cooking, your battery life will suffer. That's part of the reason that I wanted to include the results of this test, because the pessimistic torture-testing performed above doesn't reflect real use."

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/articles.php?action=expand,33593

http://www.mobile-review.com/pda/review/sony-th55-en.shtml

"The TH55 is equipped with the non-replaceable Li-Ion battery. Our tests revealed that the handheld can provide 17 hours 15 minutes (including 30 minutes browsing the Internet via Wi-Fi and 40 minutes of Flash cartoons at the maximum backlight) in the mp3-mode before the charger level drops to 15%. A fantastic performance indeed! The company claims 24 hours 30 minutes of continuous work in the mp3-mode (the screen and buttons blocked). Real battery performance almost equals that suggested by the manufacturer. In the video mode (full screen, the maximum backlight) the battery lasted 4 hours 20 minutes with 20% charger level remaining, that exceeds planned figures by 20 minutes. Then the device worked for another couple of hours as organizer. The time declared for the video mode with the minimum backlight amounts to 7 hours 30 minutes, however we assume it can be even higher. As for other PDA modes see the list below:

Mp3 with the screen switched on – 7 hours;
Dictaphone recording to Memory Stick (the screen and buttons blocked) – 19.5 hours;
Dictaphone recording to Memory Stick (the screen and buttons unblocked, default backlight) – 6 hours;
Continuous work with Wi-Fi (the minimum backlight) – 14 hours!!
Continuous work with Wi-Fi (the maximum backlight) – 5.5 hours
;
30 minutes everyday as organizer (backlight on) – 15 days;
30 minutes everyday as organizer (default backlight) – 9 days.
Sony TH55 enjoys the longest battery life for color screen PDA outpacing the recent leader Asus A620. We mean only standard batteries. Well, our respect to engineers from Sony. Such outstanding off-line performance is achieved also with the help of the processor developed by Sony."

http://www.tomshardware.com/mobile/20041231/axim_x50v-10.html (here's one in your favor)

http://www.mobiletechreview.com/Dell_Axim_X50.htm

http://www.mobiletechreview.com/Dell_Axim_X50v.htm

http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=6073 (Ryan's well-written description of the T3 battery life + why you need to be careful in interpreting published figures)

"Battery
The battery inside the T3 is a 900mAh lithum-ion rechargeable, the same found in the TT, T2 and Zire 71. According to Palm, with software improvements minus the extra battery required for the larger screen and additional memory, battery life should be about the same as the original TT. While that may be optimistic, it certainly was not the case with my review unit. Granted I don't think my T3s battery was conditioned properly either, as it had been used before it got to me. Generally I've found that charging up for at least four hours, prior to turing a device on, and then completely draining and fully recharging the battery will provide optimum battery life.

With my fairly hefty usage (lots of Bluetooth, audio, web browsing and games) I would see about 3-4.5 hours of use between charges. How much life you get out of the battery will depend on what you use, how long you use it and how frequently. It's a complex thing to pin a absolute number on, so your millage may vary."

http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=7210 (T5 review)

"Battery
The T5 has a non removable 1300 mAh rechargeable lithium ion battery. This is a good increase over the T3's 900 mAh supply. The Flash RAM in the T5 also allows for a greater keep alive time, as the handheld does not have to supply power to the RAM in order to preserve the memory contents. I've only had the T5 for less than a week, and its tough to draw conclusions from the limited time. I can tell initially that the battery life is improved over the T3, but not significantly. I was able to get about ~5 hours of time out of my first charge. (I will come back an update this section after I've had more time with the T5.)"

http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=6604 (TH55 review)

"Battery Life:
In general I've found the battery life on this handheld to be superb. I decided to give it a heavy use test, and spent 24 hours after a full charge wirelessly web surfing with the power save off, playing video games, reading, listening to music, and watching videos with the screen brightness on medium or high. This made up for a total of about 5 hours of use. The battery never went below 80%. The other test has been going on for several days now, and is my typical light usage. I keep the backlight at whatever level is most appropriate. This means that during the day, under the fluorescent lights at work it's typically on high. The rest of the time it's medium to low. I use alarms, have data automatically backed up to the card, look at pictures and videos, write in Docs to Go, use the PIM functions, sync daily and use the PC Link to transfer data to and from the MS, etc. After about 5 days of 1-2 hours use each day, the battery is currently at 54%. And, no, I haven't been charging the handheld while hotsyncing. I've essentially abandoned my charging cable until I get a low battery warning, just to see how long it'll last.

It's worth mentioning that the battery software seems to display percentage not just based on volts, but on current energy draw (which I think is pretty common). So, after playing about 15 minutes of videos with the backlight all the way up, the battery had dropped from 85% to 77%. A little while later it was back up to 80%. I plan on using the handheld without charging until I reach my first low battery warning. I honestly have no idea how long it will take, and Sony's website claims 15 days of "normal" use. This review will probably be posted before I charge my TH55 again."


Like Martha Stewart said: "Your my biotch now." Don't ever forget it. (And you too, Geeko.)






*************************************************************************************

Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

*************************************************************************************





******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Maybe they need to do a real study?
svrontis @ 3/6/2005 6:07:53 PM # Q
OK you win. I'm wrong; you're right. I'll try to refrain from posting here in future so as not to subject you all to my incorrect views.

RE: Maybe they need to do a real study?
mikecane @ 3/7/2005 9:28:23 AM # Q
It's just as Gekko said: he mans a PDA counter, probably at Sam's Club. How else would this eejit get all these PDAs he's allegedly *cough* expert *cough* in?

What Noise of unReason leaves out is the CPU on those CLIEs -- 125MHZ max, is it? So frigging INADEQUATE for REAL video that you have to TRANSCODE stuff to get it down to like 12-14fps. Sure, it still looks good, BUT WHO THE HELL WANTS TO JUMP THROUGH THOSE HOOPS?!

Would the iPod had been as popular if people HAD to transcode their MP3s to AAC?

Case closed. Sony exited, tail between its legs, and STILL doesn't understand why.

Now Howard Stringer is in charge? This is to laugh.

Kutaragi waits in the wings for his inevtiable ascendance...

BTW: Want a PSP? Come to NYC. The gray-market rip-off-the-dumb-tourists electronics stores have plenty of them. Just don't expect that Spider-Man II game/UMD or whatever it is.

Reply to this comment

PDA = Smartphone?

phoneboy @ 3/2/2005 8:55:41 PM # Q
As a PDA-phile, it sounds like bad news to me. But, why separate the two categories? Aren't smart-phones just PDAs with an extra feature (ie GSM/GPRS or CDMA radio built in)? Sure, smart-phone sales distribution is different (wireless providers instead of traditional retailers, but they are still great devices.

If you count smart-phones and PDAs in the same category, how big is the decline? How are the needs of PDA customer being fulfilled? Certainly not by palm-sized PC’s, yet.

Smart phones are cool, but I still prefer having two devices: a small phone in my pocket linked via Bluetooth to my full-featured PDA.

RE: agree
Cheetah @ 3/3/2005 12:23:56 AM # Q
For now, the best setup for me is a cell phone and separate PDA. Why?

1. cell phone screens are too small for my PDA purposes
2. cell phone battery life is too short already. If I used my cell phone for PDA functions it would last only a day or less.
3. I often access my PDA while talking on my cell. The only way to do this with a cell/pda combo (e.g. Treo) is with an ear bud, which I really don't like

RE: PDA = Smartphone?
MarcusRonning @ 3/3/2005 11:39:04 PM # Q
Bingo you are correct,

I like the cell phone seperated from my PDA!!!

Palm needs to research!!!

I guarantee a handful of PDA enthusiasts know more than the whole fricking marketing dept. at Palm.

No WiFi accept the C...and the Wi FI SD card, great where is my other SD card going. Hello MC FLY at Palm...Pull your head out, Bill Gates is eating your lunch...You had the market, and blew it......Take the Treo and stick it.....I want a Powerful PDA. I have a $25.00 Blue tooth USB plug that gives me internet on my T3, but geez what an effort to get it set up, now I can BBQ and check my e-mails and respond.

Take the T3, keep the slider or not, I like the slider but removing it I will live with. Add Wi Fi!!!! and we got a winner!!

Look I save your research dollars....Geezzzzzz Don't make me buy a Pocket PC.

RE: PDA = Smartphone?
Marshall Flinkman @ 3/4/2005 9:58:29 PM # Q
"I often access my PDA while talking on my cell. The only way to do this with a cell/pda combo (e.g. Treo) is with an ear bud, which I really don't like"

Try a Bluetooth headset with a Treo 650. Works well. I'd suggest a Sony Ericsson one.

Reply to this comment

Too complicated-

Geek Geezer @ 3/3/2005 1:01:30 PM # Q
I think you could make a case that the segment is failing because it takes a geek to make a PDA really useful. I know a friend of mine in sales who gave up his PDA when he discovered (the hard way), that when the battery ran out, all his information evaporated. He hadn't bothered to set up hot sync because we're an Outlook house here and (at the time) a third party app was required to sync with Outlook. He's not going to open that can of worms, and our tiny little IT group doesn't support PDAs. So now he lugs a laptop.

Dunno if you can make that example a general case, but as a business tool, the pda takes some effort to become really useful and the skills required may be beyond the typical. The sweet spot for business users may well be basic PDA functionality on a phone. Unfortunately there's lots of ways to skin that cat without requiring a general purpose OS.

What the PALM device is, is a handheld computer with a general purpose OS. I love it, but then, I am a geek. I'm willing to put the time and money into buying the apps to extend the device to do all the nifty things it can do. The market of geeks may be limited. For the rest of the world, a more focused function device, like the Blackberry, or a phone with calendar & address book functions sync'd to an Exchange server, or a $25 organizer may fit better.

Areas which exploit the power and flexibility of the processor/OS combination would be vertical apps, like medical/pharmaceutical. In those cases, it would pay back to hire a geek to integrate the application and make it usable by the guy on the street who has other things to do than play with this stuff.

GG

Reply to this comment

Just lovely

cbowers @ 3/4/2005 4:30:03 AM # Q
PalmOS has for a good while now not been particularly restricted in the screen resolution possibilities. There been plenty of talk up how we could expect more tablet like devices. Except we'd still have the driver issues (lack thereof), and generally a lack of useful ports.

Yet another category we're getting clobered on:
A chinese companies WinCE product:
http://www.e683.com/en/htm/products_services/Products_show.asp?id=3

Micro-Processor
INTEL PXA255 400MHz

Memory
64MB FLASH, 128M SDRAM

Display
7" TFT color screen 16 bits ? resolution 800x480

I/O
Wire-less (wifi) Communication

In-built GPRS/ CDMA 1X module;Compatible with 802.11b wireless module

Expansion Slot
SD/ MMC

Microphone
In-Built Microphone, ? 3.5mm

Speaker
In-built stereo speaker

Earphone
Stereo Earphone, ? 3.5mm

Keyboard
PS 2 interface keyboard

Video Output
VGA Standard DB 15 CRT

Communication terminal
Host USB A, V 1.1
Device Mini USB B, V 1.1

Network interface
RJ45, 10M/ 100M
Mini RS 232

Dock Station
Standard PS2 interface;
Standard USB (V 1.1) interface;
VGA; Serial Interface;
RJ 45.

Power Supply
Rechargeable li-battery,
continuously operating,
3500mAH.Replaceable

Reply to this comment

Time for the iPda?

cnegrad @ 3/4/2005 7:14:58 AM # Q
It would be be the final nail in Palm's coffin if Apple released their own iPod-styled PDA right now. Can you imagine the world flocking to get a pda that matches the look of their iPods and MacMini's? If they had Blackberry and WiFi it would be all over, and Apple would be king of the world.

-cnegrad
RE: Time for the iPda?
cnegrad @ 3/4/2005 7:35:24 AM # Q
That should've said Bluetooth, not Blackberry. That'll teach me to post so early in the morning.

-cnegrad
RE: Time for the iPda?
tinaa @ 3/5/2005 9:36:42 AM # Q
I think Palm is really missing the boat on this one.

Hardware wise, transform something like the T5's form factor, but less fugly, and a few models at different price points: say 6 - 60 gB and choice of 320x480 or 480x640 screens.

Now the really important part: software. What they should do is reverse engineer iTunes so that they can play Apple's Fairplay DRMed AAC files from the iTunes music store on this Palm. That is, figure out how to allow the Palm to act as one of the 5 authorized computers an iTunes user is allowed. Real has successfully reverse engineered the DRM, so I don't see why Palm couldn't do it. They could collaborate with Real considering they already put Real's audio players in a number of their devices. Or make the Palm mimic an iPod so it can sync with iTunes on a PC/Mac.

Then licence WMA10 from Microsoft. Now Palm can legitimately claim they've got the only truly universal portable media player.

Importantly, develop GOOD software on the palm for playback of audio (with advanced features like gapless playback) and video and picture viewing.

With video output and documents to go built in, this could easily run a powerpoint slide show off a video projector, giving the corporate types a reason to write-off the toy......

Make things really nice.... put a USB host controller in there so third party peripherals can interface using standard components. You could, theoretically, use your Logitech gamepad to play video games off it, or just use it to pull pictures off your digital camera or movies off your 250 GB USB drive...

Obviously, compromises will have to be made to make the thing affordable enough for anyone to buy. But my point is, I don't think phones are the best form factor for a full fledged PDA. But a full fledged PDA, with a good design, can easily do what an iPod or any other media player can do. Rather than being cannibalize by the smart phone market, the PDA market should start cannibalizing the media player market.

___________
I've got the whole world in my Palm. But the slider's stuck shut.

The iPalm has already been done, folks. It's dead.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 3/5/2005 4:34:29 PM # Q
CLIE VZ90 :

b. 2004
d. 2005

R.I.P.





*************************************************************************************

Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

*************************************************************************************





******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Time for the iPda?
tinaa @ 3/5/2005 6:46:12 PM # Q
That Clie actually looks pretty nice...

But no hard drive and it doesn't really count when the company kills it before it's even marketed. Did it even come out in North America or Europe?

Actually, now that Sony's finally given up on the silly ATRAC thing, and reportedly been snubbed by Apple at least once, it would be nice to see them do it right, and sell it at a tiny margin to pick up some of that market share... The Clie Walkman. It's got a certain ring...

___________
I've got the whole world in my Palm. But the slider's stuck shut.

Sony's iPalm: the iPod killer
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 3/5/2005 7:08:05 PM # Q
That Clie actually looks pretty nice...

But no hard drive and it doesn't really count when the company kills it before it's even marketed. Did it even come out in North America or Europe?

Actually, now that Sony's finally given up on the silly ATRAC thing, and reportedly been snubbed by Apple at least once, it would be nice to see them do it right, and sell it at a tiny margin to pick up some of that market share... The Clie Walkman. It's got a certain ring...

The VZ90 is amazing. Add one or two 1 - 2 GB memory cards and you'll see why Sony was SOOOOOOOOO close to making the ultimate portable device. You could even also add a multi-GB CompactFlash harddrive.

Sony never sold it outside Japan and only a few people have imported this model into the US, since it only comes with a Japanese version of PalmOS. I reviewed a version that I converted to an English OS and eventually will post the review. Unfortunately, the VZ90 is pretty heavy - over 1/2 pound of creamy CLIE goodness... If Sony could mix the best features of the UX50 and VZ90 they would finally achieve PDA nirvana.





*************************************************************************************

Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

*************************************************************************************





******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Time for the iPda?
twrock @ 3/6/2005 9:01:26 AM # Q
TVoR wrote: "I reviewed a version that I converted to an English OS...."

So what did that take? There is a single VZ90 sitting on the shelf at a local computer mall. I recall they were trying to unload it very cheap because it was only in Japanese (and everyone here wants Chinese).

RE: Time for the iPalm?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 3/6/2005 3:51:40 PM # Q
TVoR wrote: "I reviewed a version that I converted to an English OS...."

So what did that take? There is a single VZ90 sitting on the shelf at a local computer mall. I recall they were trying to unload it very cheap because it was only in Japanese (and everyone here wants Chinese).

Use the Web, Luke. Google is your Friend.

- Lord DV (your father)







*************************************************************************************

Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

*************************************************************************************





******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Time for the iPda?
twrock @ 3/7/2005 7:56:23 AM # Q
"Lord DV (your father)"

No. No. That's not true. That's impossible!!!

Nooooo! Noooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (as he throws himself into the abyss)

English CLIE VZ90: Sweeeeeeeet!
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 3/7/2005 9:59:08 AM # Q
;-)





*************************************************************************************

Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

*************************************************************************************





******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

Reply to this comment

This is just wrong.

tompcox @ 3/5/2005 8:54:37 AM # Q
The problem with the market for PDA's right now is that no company is offering anything that looks attractive. Sales have decreased because there is not a combination of features that we want to buy. I personally was hoping the Sony systems would be my next machine, but then they left the market. Since then I've been waiting for Palm to come up with another machine. Everyone seems to be panning the T5, my machine and some of the other Tungstens have chronic digitizer error problems, Zires are too much like toys...what else is out there.

RE: This is just wrong.
Strider_mt2k @ 3/5/2005 9:26:00 AM # Q
Go ahead and buy a Sony!

By the time these laggards catch up it should be ready for replacement and the features may be close to the same.
3-5 years.


Reply to this comment

Another nail in the PalmOS coffin

mikecane @ 3/5/2005 11:04:32 AM # Q
Myst for Pocket PC released
http://www.pdalive.com/showarticle.php?threadid=8127

-- I mean, WTF?!!? Hello, Tapwave! Why isn't this on the Zod?!

Guess it'll be on a *PSP* before YOU guys ever have it... make sure you pay your electric bills on time, and turn out the lights when the company dissolves...

RE: Another nail in the PalmOS coffin
hkklife @ 3/7/2005 11:03:17 AM # Q
Mike, did you forget? Tapwave is not a MEDIA-focused mobile company. Mobile entertainment is a secondary concern of theirs! In all fairness, this should've been their approach from the start. Before the iPod hit critical mass and before the DS & PSP were solid, the Zod could've been sold as an Archos-style portable video player without the HD but with PIM capability, wireless and a few nifty games.

Here's my quickie take on how to fix Tapwave (mind you I do not, nor have I ever owned a Zod but I've been seriously considerng buying one for the past two months to replace my aging T3). I absolutely love the RAM configuration, dual SD, big battery and solid construction of the Zods. I REALLY want a Z2 and can live with the FF but I hate the launcher and I have to hit the web at least 2x daily via BT.

Glaring current issues with the platform:

1. Non "business" formfactor & appearance. Put the Z1's specs in a T5esque plastic cheapie case and you've got a winner in the short-term (why not, everyone else has fallen in love with plastic housings nowadays). Put the same specs into a nice T5-but-metal style case and you have a homerun.

2. NO web browser that supports portrait & landscape full-screen modes. They have a decent wi-fi solution now so PLEASE get Netfront, Web Pro 3.5 or Blazer on this thing ASAP!

3. Spotty retail distribution-the local CUSA's Zod area is in increasingly worrysome disarray every time I go there. Not a good sign.

4. Both models need to be PERMANENTLY reduced in price by $40-$50. Not a weekend-only promo, I mean a permanent price drop. No bundles either. Price drop. Discontinue the Z1 & the MMC games if necessary to get the # of SKUs down but a Z2 needs to be right at $300 or less. You can get a Zod in the UK cheaper than Stateside. Again, not a good thing.

5. Sandisk needs to hurry up and get 2gb SD cards out ASAP. Imagine a Zod with a 2gb SD in one slot and a 256mb wi-fi SDIO card in the other. Yum! This isn't a Tapwave issue but still not good for all of us SD users in general. Hal2000 has a similar config on his Zod, IIRC.

6. Tapwave announcing there'd be no new hardware untill '06 at the earliest. Hello!? Lack of new product is tantamount to corporate suicide and/or throwing in the towel in the face of the PSP juggernaut. Just keep mum if there's nothing new to offer!

Free/cheap suggestions to Tapwave:

1. Ofer an option to drop the laundher back into the bog-standard Palm OS 5.2 default. Just like a T3 in landscape mode. Makes it easier for n00bs.

2. License G1 libraries from Xerox. Sell the plug-in on your site for $30. Watch the $ pour in (relatively speaking) from hardcore G1 fans!

3. Get a real WWW browser onto the platform pronto. Keep tweaking the wi-fi beta software for increased performance, compatability, and stability.

4. Discontinue the Zod 1, cut the price on the Zod 2 and release a Zodiac "2.5" with a bigger battery & minor OS update. Now that there's some solid wi-fi & BT options out there, expect to hear more battery life complaints as users log major wi-fi usage on their Zods. Even better, assuming it can be done, extend the SDIO slot a bit further into the Zod so the wi-fi card is completely internal in the Zod. Yeah, range would suffer but then we could leave it in there ALL of the time!

5. Give up on the expensive retail packaged MMC game titles and instead try to build up some serious support for at least one flagship title per developer. Something like Warfare Inc 2.0 or a licensed Quake would be a true killer app (wasn't someone working on this?). Or just try to sell licensed emulator & game ROM bundles--Sega classics, Konami classics, Atari classics etc. heavily Zod enhanced. Older PC titles--Syndicate, System Shock, Warcraft, GTA 1&2 etc would all translate nicely as well.

And Mike---since when did you care at all about "frekkin' zoom zoom games"? ;-)

RE: Another nail in the PalmOS coffin
hkklife @ 3/7/2005 11:31:52 AM # Q
Change the "not" to "now" in my second sentence above.

RE: Another nail in the PalmOS coffin
mikecane @ 3/7/2005 1:21:41 PM # Q
Myst is hardly zoom-zoom! And I only care because this is further evidence of the decay of the Palm marketplace.

Jeff Kirvin rightly points out that Tapwave has already shifted their focus from games to *media*. You are a bit behind the times. But then, so is Tapwave. Too little, too late.

http://www.writingonyourpalm.net for Kirvin's take.

RE: Another nail in the PalmOS coffin
mikecane @ 3/7/2005 1:23:56 PM # Q
Oh yeah, I'm glad to see someone *else* does that damnable "now" "not" typo. Must be a virus. Probably from Microsoft. ("Hey, Bill! Lookit this! He types 'I'm now buying a Palm' but it changes to 'I'm not buying a Palm.' Sweet, eh?")

RE: Another nail in the PalmOS coffin
hkklife @ 3/7/2005 1:37:22 PM # Q
Mike, the "zoom zoom" comment was merely a good-natured jab--I figured you consider all games in all genres "zoom-zoom" and therefore a waste of time. ;-)

I really think that Tapwave has more pressing issues with their own hardware line & its core software so be worrying about what ports PPC gets vs. what POS doesn't. I mean, I/we could come up with a list a mile long of titles POS *should* have but doesn't (for any number of reasons). Again, getting this thing into more retail channels is imperative. The Handera 330 was only available at...Sam's Club and online. Look how far that got HE!

The best hope for the Zod remains with SD carts with increasing capacities and plummetings costs coupled with a strong set of Zod-enhanced emulators and licensed ROMs. Focus on getting (legal) rock-solid emulation down pat and you have a slew of titles ready to go with little effort required. Porting something like Myst is going to be substantially more resource & $-intensive.

Besides, most consumers have a been there, done that mentality towards Myst since it's been ported to nearly every CD/DVD-based platform out there in the past decade +. I do agree with your basic points about the erosion of the market but the gaming sector was lost long, long ago. Best to now circle the wagons and focus on PIM/wireless/media playing!

RE: Another nail in the PalmOS coffin
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 3/7/2005 3:35:49 PM # Q
Pong has just been released for PPC. This PROVES that Palm is dead!

http://www.mikecaneislosinghismind.com





*************************************************************************************

Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

*************************************************************************************





******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Another nail in the PalmOS coffin
mikecane @ 3/8/2005 12:54:33 PM # Q
It's just like you to post an outdated link.

RE: Another nail in the PalmOS coffin
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 3/8/2005 8:39:11 PM # Q
The link is not outdated. In fact it's working for everyone but you.





*************************************************************************************

Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

*************************************************************************************





******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

Reply to this comment

Apple, not OQO, kills the PDA

mikecane @ 3/9/2005 12:59:42 PM # Q
Coming Soon: Voice eats his iPoo
mikecane @ 3/9/2005 1:00:48 PM # Q
See above post.

Don't know, I won't gloat *too* much when you ditch that UX... Come to the Light!

Hell, even Kutaragi will have one!!

RE: Apple, not OQO, kills the PDA
pmjoe @ 3/9/2005 1:25:28 PM # Q
I hope this is true. I wonder how Apple would market this. They wouldn't want to compete with the iPod too much.

If this were based on a reduced flavor of OS X, this would be a dream for developers to work with, IMHO.

RE: Apple, not OQO, kills the PDA
mikecane @ 3/9/2005 1:32:25 PM # Q
OK.... that had to be the weirdest typo my fingers ever committed. know = worry.

Yeesh.

RE: Apple, not OQO, kills the PDA
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 3/9/2005 4:28:43 PM # Q
Did you not get your crack fix this a.m.? Crack is killing you, Mike. Get help. Before it's too late.





*************************************************************************************

Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

*************************************************************************************





******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

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