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Comments on: palmOne Conference Call Highlights

palmOne held a quarterly conference call yesterday with investors, analysts and the news media. The company shed some insight on performance and goals going forward and talked about the upcoming handheld and smartphone releases.
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What about PDAs?

Wolfgard @ 3/18/2005 2:14:46 PM # Q
Seems like PalmOne is more focused on smartphones now. Bad news for all of us.

pen & paper -> m515 -> Zire72 -> TH55 & Handera 330
RE: What about PDAs?
LiveFaith @ 3/18/2005 2:20:42 PM # Q
Wow. 66:28 ratio (almost 2/3 - 1/3) of PDA sells to smartfones. Now I'm sure the gross revenue is near 50:50, since no $99 or $199 cells are in that mix, but I was under the impression from the December report that it was closing in on 50:50.

How are phone sales even calculated? Do they trickle out the door or is it based on Sprint signing a contract for 150,000 Treos for example? Does this skew the #s.

Looks like the T|C2 with some serious multimedia and T|E2 are coming. No Zire 73?

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: What about PDAs?
LiveFaith @ 3/18/2005 2:27:31 PM # Q
Boy. That T|E has just been a cash cow for PalmOne. Amazing what happens when you hit the pricing sweetspot, plenty of channels, and with a solid and attractive product. T|E2 should milk it for a while longer with software and wireless upgrades.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: What about PDAs?
svrontis @ 3/18/2005 7:18:05 PM # Q
Agreed.

Note also that the TE is so light on features/gimmicks that it was never considered worthy of a review on PIC. Kinda suggests that there is a reasonable market out there, in the real world, for the kind of palmpilots which geeks like us would shun.

Confession: I use a TE every day - and love it - I even have a spare for the dreaded day that the first one goes to meet the big engineer in the sky! My T2, with all its features, sits 'alone and palely loitering' in a cupboard.

I just hope that the forthcoming TE2 is thinner and lighter than the TE, with better battery life. I fear, however, that it will be spoiled by the inclusion of a BT radio or, worse still, a WiFi radio. (shudder)

RE: What about PDAs?
hkklife @ 3/19/2005 12:38:12 PM # Q
Remember, BT can be toggled on or off at will. Size-wise, it won't add anything to the T|E--the new Athena connector will change the formfactor more so than anything else.

Keeping BT off will always significantly increase a handheld's battery life. With the (hopefully) 1300mAh or so battery that P1 will put in the T|E2, battery life with BT off should be improved over the BT-free T|E.

RE: What about PDAs?
AdamaDBrown @ 3/19/2005 3:55:59 PM # Q
Actually, turning Bluetooth off does not significantly improve battery life. Turning it off on the T5 saves about 5-10 minutes of battery life.

'Worse still, a WiFi radio'? We'd be so lucky for PalmOne to include WiFi on a TE2.

RE: What about PDAs?
svrontis @ 3/19/2005 8:52:26 PM # Q
Thank you for sharing your opinions. My own view is that a thinner and lighter TE (with better battery life) would be much more useful than one with BT and/or WiFi radios.

RE: What about PDAs?
Calroth @ 3/21/2005 6:02:24 PM # Q
If PalmOne had listened to us (the majority in PalmInfocenter) in the first place, the only model they'd be selling would be a souped-up Tungsten T6 with the lot, and they'd never even consider making a lightweight m515 replacement (that's the Tungsten E), because as a bunch of power users, the majority of us wouldn't buy it...

Good thing they listen to actual representative consumers then, eh?

RE: What about PDAs?
AdamaDBrown @ 3/22/2005 5:00:31 PM # Q
The TE is not even close to being an m515 replacement. The m515 was high end and well built. The TE, not so much. The form-factor is really all they have in common.

RE: What about PDAs?
hkklife @ 3/23/2005 10:11:38 AM # Q
The V/m500s were sleek and had a lovely little wedge shape at the bottom (more pronounced on the m5xxs) that made it very comfortable to hold in your hand. Additionallly, all of them had aluminum housings--even the cheapish m500 had a plastic back panel with an aluminum front. The T|E reeks of cheapness all the way around with its construction & finish. While it was a fine set of specs for the $ at the time of its launch and you cannot really expect better in a budget model, it should NEVER be mentioned in the same breath as the classic V/m500 formfactor--the definitive, classic PDA shape.

IMHO, the m5xx remains the paradigm of handheld design. The stylus was superb, the case rail has yet to be matched, and it fit perfectly in the hand. The T|E is thicker and more more squarish in shape, not too terribly comfortable to hold and the finish is sort of slippery and prone to fingerprint smudges. Quite simpply, it looks cheap & clunky. The V/Vx/m500s do not. That's the difference between classic Ideo styling & P1 in-house design.

RE: What about PDAs?
e_tellurian @ 3/24/2005 9:59:40 PM # Q
Some folks asked the same question five years ago here on PIC and some other places on the Internet. ("Spam")

Raven may have some thoughts on the future of ones wallet. New engineering will require a prototype.

Some are thinking about creating a we-com industry so we may all interact together with our wallets of choice.

Anyway we may have a solution for the people that work in the tech industry and the people that may choose new choices. The planning must work so that no one is out of work in the event of a PDA enhancement. Smart phones will need work too as will PDAs for those that do not want an all in one choice.

Just some thoughts.

E-T

e-tellurian

completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution

Reply to this comment

Some additional goals

lncualop @ 3/18/2005 2:11:11 PM # Q
I think PalmOne should also focus on supporting customers who made investments in their previous handhelds. I've been a Palm user since the Palm Pilot Professional, and what disappoints me is that PalmOne seems to be more inclined to abandoning the older handhelds for the newer, "better" ones. Even the relatively recent Tungsten T and T2 have been relegated "discontinued" status even when they can still perform the exact same tasks as the T3, and run almost all the same software. PalmOne sometimes doesn't realize that the reason for their success is partly due to the early adopters who bought these units, and that they should be rewarded for their loyalty. One case in point is the lack of OS upgrades for the Tungsten T, the original OS 5 flagship. It can certainly handle the newer OS 5.2 and Garnet. How about it PalmOne?
RE: Some additional goals
IanJD @ 3/18/2005 2:37:06 PM # Q
Not enough Flash RAM in the T for an upgrade.

RE: Some additional goals... NOT!
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 3/18/2005 3:00:41 PM # Q
Wrong. They don't need support headaches ("This upgrade killed my Palm!") and they make more from you buying a new Palm than they would from selling you an OS upgrade. Economics 101.

Handera was the only company that was good about supporting users with upgrades and look where they are. (I went from 3.1 to 3.52 to 4.x on my TRGpro, all at no cost. That didn't help Handera's bottom line - even though it generated a lot of goodwill. But goodwill doesn't pay the rent.)





*************************************************************************************

Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

*************************************************************************************





******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Some additional goals
LiveFaith @ 3/18/2005 4:00:59 PM # Q
Ian, maybe for an incremental from 5.0 - 5.2.1? I know that things tight. So is the T3 really. I agree with VoR here, but it seems like they could make some $$$ if they went for it at say $30? Then again, remember the m5xx upgrade that did not support XP and everyone tried it anyway ... Palm Inc got slayed for that.

Probably been thru enough tek-support nightmares to just depend on repurchases now.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Some additional goals
lncualop @ 3/18/2005 4:10:54 PM # Q
Yes, what it all boils down to is money, there is no question. OS Upgrades can also be made into a source of revenue for PalmOne. They did charge for the 3.5 and 4.1 upgrades when they did come out, and it's pretty much a matter of software engineering to make the upgrade work properly on each handheld. They already charge you for phone support. All the PalmOne hardware is pretty much regulated by PalmOne itself, and so there is practically no difference between 2 units of the same model, especially if the upgrade does a hard reset on the machine before applying itself, which OS 3.3, 3.5, and 4.1 upgrades did. It's not like upgrading Windows 98 to XP. RIM did it for the Blackberry with their 4.0 firmware, and it just gives added value for people who already own the handhelds.

PalmPilot Professional -> Sony Clie N760C -> Palm Tungsten T ->PalmOne Tungsten T5
RE: Some additional goals
hkklife @ 3/18/2005 4:37:55 PM # Q
Well, the upgrade only worked for XP if you had a serial cradle or cable IIRC. Otherwise, for USB you had to run it under Win 2k or Win 9x/ME. That was just incompetent programming on Palm's part. If I can flash my asus mobo from within Windows then P1 can certainly get a working flash install process in XP.

Palm should implement some of policy of one or two minor freebie bugfix type updates for all models and then a paid optional OS & ROM app upgrade for all Tungstens, or all models above a certain price point or something.

Example: $30 gets you latest version of Kinoma, Versamail, Web Pro, Media, and OS 5.2.8 on your T3. Bingo! Instant revenue source. Attach a disclaimer to it that it's not Palm's fault if you hose your handheld and you're all set. My no-name $30 CDRW drive has had several firmware updates made available as has nearly every no-name settop DVD player and mp3 player out there so Palm should not think they are above the upgrade process. Done properly, there's a tidy little revenue stream awaiting them. just think how many users have had to resort to legally dubious methods just to get WebPro 3.5 on their Tungstens. Many would have gladly paid for it were it made available!



RE: Some additional goals
IanJD @ 3/20/2005 1:35:43 PM # Q
There is 4Mb of Flash in the US version of the T. No post-5.0 device has fitted its OS into 4Mb, for well-documented reasons.

A smart Palm will NEVER offer OS updrades.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 3/20/2005 3:29:22 PM # Q
Attach a disclaimer to it that it's not Palm's fault if you hose your handheld and you're all set.

It's nice to see someone as naive as you posting here. Don't ever lose that innocence! Unfortunately, in the real world, Palm is subject to class action lawsuits for the most inane of "problems" that were supposedly its fault. I agree 100% with their decision to not provide OS upgrades.

I expect over 99% of Palm's customers have no interest in doing OS upgrades - in fact, most people don't even know what version of PalmOS runs on their PDA.

So let's do the math: say Palm sells 4,000,000 PDAs + smartphones per year. Less than 40,000 would pay for an upgrade. (Probably less than 10,000 if you factor in the fact that the people doing upgrades probably are more likely to be warez-aware/friendly!) Charging $30 per ugrade brings in Palm a whopping $1,200,000/year. Whoop-dee-doo. Now look at the support costs: creating the upgrade, testing and idiot-proofing the OS flasher, dealing with idiots that STILL manage to fry their Palms, the inevitable lawsuit from an idiot or two that was "victimized" and "horrendously and savagely scarred by Palm's egregious OS update", etc., etc. Then factor in all the sales of shiny new PDAs that would be lost to those people that have used the OS update to extend the lives of their old PDAs. If Palm would have made $100 profit from the sale of a T"X" and loses that because someone updated their old Tungsten with a $30 OS flash, how does that help Palm? Suddenly, you can now kiss any hopes of Palm profitability goodbye.

Palm tried offering OS updates before when times were good. It was a disaster. They know the exact percent of users that upgraded and how much it cost the company to offer the upgrade to its customers. Palm won't make that mistake again.

Be careful what you wish for.





*************************************************************************************

Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

*************************************************************************************





******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Some additional goals
hkklife @ 3/20/2005 3:44:56 PM # Q
If P1 were not so hell-bent on adding Graffiti 2 into everything post OS 5.0 and were selective with their featres, at least a bugfix ROM update could very well fit in a T|T. The main thing added by 5.2 was basically BT improvements, UI changes and G2. Leaving the "fluff" out of the ROM update and concentrating on just addressing some of the major T|T bugs could have asily been done. But Palm Inc. would rather just push that model out of the way and pretend it never existed.

On the forums of PIC or Brighthand, there are even posts & pics of an Oslo prototype that someone bought running OS 5.2 (using an internally-leaked, never released beta flash for T|Ts).

In fact, Pat aka LiveFaith used to possess a couple of hybrid T|Ts that were running software on hardware that was never commercially available IIRC.

RE: Some additional goals
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 3/20/2005 4:55:51 PM # Q
If P1 were not so hell-bent on adding Graffiti 2 into everything post OS 5.0

Palm stopped shipping G1 because the a**holes at Xerox tried to screw Palm with a bogus lawsuit. Palm beat the suit (so far), but Xerox has said they plan to appeal the decision. Palm would be insane to start shipping G1 again, even though many of us hate G2.

Palm has finally seen the light and will be cutting down on its number of models to 4 this year. The T|T is EOL (and has been for 2 years!) and to expect Palm to issue an update at this point is unrealistic for the reasons I'd listed before. Palm has done a lot of things wrong in the past, but I don't think you have a legitimate argument with them in this instance. Bugfixes for "obsolete" models is definitely not a priority in a company struggling to stay alive.

The T7, TE2, Treo 650/Sprint 700, and new Zire are a reasonable starting point, but I doubt Palm has what it takes to create new models are a rate to keep up with the competition.





*************************************************************************************

Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

*************************************************************************************





******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Some additional goals
hkklife @ 3/20/2005 11:23:15 PM # Q
Voice, sorry for not making that clear earlier--I didn't mean that Palm should issue a bugfix *NOW* for the T|T. It was essentially EOL as soon as the T|C & Z71 were released. A proper ROM update should have come sometime shortly after the T|T2 shipped in summer '03 and then the T could have been put out to pasture properly.

At any rate, OS upgrades are a thing of the past. I WOULD like, however, to see P1 implement some sort of one-freebie-per-handheld of the built-in ROM apps, either as a freebie or for a nominal fee. All of the T|C owners out there have a handheld that's basically dated only by its software bundle and not by its hardware specs. I'll refrain from commenting on Xerox here and the G1 fiasco as everyone knows where I stand on the issue anyway...

Is that 4 PDA models or 4 models counting the Treo(s)?
I figure cheap Zire 31, midrange Zire 73, cheap Tungsten E2, high-end Tungsten T6 or a new flagship model-Veld, LifeDrive etc.

I'd much rather see a tightly-knit, solid lineup of models anyday than the overlapping lineup of stragglers and past-their-prime handheld that have comprised the roster for the past 4 years or so.

RE: Some additional goals
Masamune @ 3/21/2005 5:07:27 PM # Q
Personally, I would be happy to exchange upgrades for regular updates on PhoneLink and bugfixes...

RE: Some additional goals
hkklife @ 3/21/2005 5:20:24 PM # Q
Phonelink & bugfixes should be free & a given, at least for $200+ devices (T|E and up).

Updates would be appreciated, even with a nomimal fee attached to them (like $5 per each built-in app or something).



Reply to this comment

My $0.02 worth...

Masamune @ 3/18/2005 7:15:58 PM # Q
First off - its good to have some concrete info about P1's future plans, rather than third hand rumour.

More than 80% of the companies engineers are software engineers

This could be an indication of the forthcoming arrival of Cobalt or possibly a P1 PalmLinux device. I'm concerned that device quality will suffer with this ratio of engineers - I'd rather have a solid quality Garnet device than a poor quality Cobalt.

The bulk of new investments is going into smartphones

I'm open minded. A PalmOS P910i would be great but I don't want to see an endless line of Treos. Also would PDA design & build quality suffer from a lack of funds?

The company is diverting R&D and money to deliver more phones on more networks faster

This is a double edge swod. Great news about handhelds becoming available on a wider range of networks, especially here in the UK, where Orange is the only supplier of the Treo at present. But diverting funds away from R&D - I rather wait longer and have a good quality device than a rushed out piece of s&%@.

The company is committed to improving the core applications to create and unparalleled user interface

Sounds like a Cobalt reference to me but I'll believe it when its in the Palm of my hand.

In the past quarter the company shipped 279k smartphones, and 659k handhelds, with the Tungsten E still the top seller

See above comment about smartphones. Seems odd to muck around with a winning formula but P1 has become rather stale of late - a big change could see some interesting Treos appearing with features such as Wifi amongst other things.

The next generation of handhelds will be released this quarter or early in the next quater.

* One focuses on Business productivity tools and heavily on mobile entertainment
* The other will be the successor to the best selling Tungsten E (rumored Tungsten E2)

There you have it folks - fresh from the horses mouth. My guess is that this multimedia device will try to rival the hp rx3715 or possibly the offspring/ convergence of the Tungsten and Zire lines, with the confirmed E2 being the last of the series.

RE: My $0.02 worth...
hkklife @ 3/18/2005 9:20:24 PM # Q
Might the mythical "Veld" line finally make an appearance? What about some sort of enhanced Apple integration/tie-in (ie the ballyhooed "LifeDrive" that's making the rumor circles)?

I predict one of thbe following for the OTHER new unit--the T|E2 is self-explanatory.

1. A mini-tablet style OS5 device with dual wireless and two expansion slots--SDIO & CF. There's a chance it'll be bundled with a Microdrive of some kind. This might not even be called a Tungsten.

2. A Zire 73 with a large (512mb-1gb) internal flash drive. Expect a beefy battery and an improved camera.

3. A T5 with nothing more than the features the T5 shoulda had originally--voice recorder, wi-fi, bigger battery & more internal storage.

My $ is on #2 based on P1's recent history and the needs of the current lineup. At any rate, today's news is the best sign of life we've seen from those ol' boys at Palm since the launch of the T3 18 months ago.

What worries me more than anything else with Collagen's conference call talking point highlights is the dual focus on "business productivity tools and heavily on mobile entertainment" Usually jack-of-all-trade devices end up not being particular adept at anything. Having "business" anywhere in the description makes me tend to rule out a built-in digicam and lean more towards scenario #3.

W.r.t. Cobalt et al...
SeldomVisitor @ 3/19/2005 7:30:55 AM # Q
...try not to forget that PalmOne and PalmSource are two separate companies. PalmOne makes a phone and some PDAs that have PalmSource operating system(s) in them. PalmOne in the past has expressed faily significant dismay at PalmSource for their Cobalt OS (I forget the exact comments but it was along the line of "If PalmSource ever gets their act together with Cobalt"...).

The phone product from PalmOne uses an old version of PalmOS that was considerably hacked by Handspring programmers. It appears that tradition continues.

But PalmOne having gajillions of software engineers on their staff (somewhere in the world, not necessarily California) has little relevance to whether or not Cobalt exists in any real form.

Note - PalmSource outright acknowledged that they did not have their act together with Cobalt - they actually came out and said something virtually the same as "We're gonna implement the higher layers of Cobalt - essentially the User Interface - on top of a Linux Kernel since we can't get the multi-tasking kernel stuff right".

But in any case, don't confuse PalmSource and PalmOne. One is a software company that's looking really strong to lose its SINGLE customer (pretty much), the other is an outsourced-almost-entirely "hardware company" that's looking really strong to go the uSoft route soon.

RE: My $0.02 worth...
acidreflux @ 3/19/2005 10:44:09 PM # Q
"At any rate, today's news is the best sign of life we've seen from those ol' boys at Palm since the launch of the T3 18 months ago."

Well said.


"A mini-tablet style OS5 device with dual wireless and two expansion slots--SDIO & CF. There's a chance it'll be bundled with a Microdrive of some kind. This might not even be called a Tungsten."

Sure. Rather, I would bet my money on a new Zire and E. Already a few mistakes by vendors posting the model of a new Zire (just like with the T5); and the admission of the E.


"The company is diverting R&D and money to deliver more phones on more networks faster."

Does that mean increased or decreased specifications/features for future devices? Second, how great was their research and development anyways?


"When asked Colligan confirmed the Verizon Treo 650 would support the high speed EV-DO standard."

Big farking deal. Verizons Vcast service is lame to say the least.


"Kinda suggests that there is a reasonable market out there, in the real world, for the kind of palmpilots which geeks like us would shun."

I think that is the most true statement said yet.

Reply to this comment

Biggest news in the story

treo007 @ 3/18/2005 7:34:37 PM # Q
" When asked Colligan confirmed the Verizon Treo 650 would support the high speed EV-DO standard."

This is the best news I've heard in a while. I'd actually switch to Verizon for this.

Reply to this comment

Next salvo from MSFT/DELL coming

Gekko @ 3/19/2005 8:30:23 AM # Q

PalmOne's/PalSource's product lines will continue to stagnate and MSFT/DELL/HP will continue to RELENTLESSLY push ahead. Some of you schmoes think that innovation is bad for business, the mass market customer is dumb and doesn't want value for the dollar and doesn't want a rich feature-set. I think you are wrong. Zen, arrogance, and incompetence will continue destroy Palm's market share. Windows Mobile 2005 will be out soon and MSFT will have most likely polished up the rough edges. Combined with incredible new hardware from DELL/HP/INTEL, even the Palm apologists will be running for the exits. A BUGGY, rehashed T5 or Treo with an old OS, crappy NVFS and some GIMMICK doesn't cut it.

DELIVER VALUE TO THE CUSTOMER OR DIE!


RE: Next salvo from MSFT/DELL coming -- HAHAHAH!
mikecane @ 3/20/2005 11:42:55 AM # Q
Gekko:

http://blogs.msdn.com/mglehman/archive/2005/03/19/399175.aspx

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

And *this* from *hp*!

RE: Next salvo from MSFT/DELL coming
Masamune @ 3/20/2005 3:55:22 PM # Q
I remember PDA Essentials chief comment on the 6315:

"It's as ugly as sin."

Having seen and used one of the things briefly, I'm inclined to agree with the link above.

You are scaring people to pocketpc's
Surur @ 3/20/2005 7:16:32 PM # Q
...........................
Hi -
I was considering buying a Palm until, after reading their message boards, I ran away screaming.

So now, I am considering a PocketPC. I know absolutely nothing about them - including how one "writes" information. Is there a Graffitti type program that works on these?
Thank you -
...........................
http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=334094

Is this part of the death spiral?

Surur

RE: Next salvo from MSFT/DELL coming
TooMuch @ 3/20/2005 7:56:24 PM # Q
Before you run from Palm because you read message boards of a few hundred troubled (many simply because they aren't familiar with the product and/or add some troubled freeware) users, you better read the thousands of Pocket PC troubles. Take from someone who learned the expensive way (buying products), Palm is as solid as it gets.

As for Gekko's stuff...That's just him and his stubbornly blind loyalty to hammer Palm. Blow it off as him having fun. It's been the same alarm of how Palm can't survive for about 7 years now.

Basically, here's the thought to keep in mind:
Apple's computers work while PC's get worked on.
palmOne's products work well while PPC's work (though bulky).

:)

RE: Next salvo from MSFT/DELL coming
TooMuch @ 3/20/2005 8:13:48 PM # Q
Oops. I meant to say "clunky."

----------

"...while PPC's work (though bulky)."

RE: Next salvo from MSFT/DELL coming
relyons @ 3/22/2005 12:45:01 PM # Q
TooMuch said, "As for Gekko's stuff...That's just him and his stubbornly blind loyalty to hammer Palm."

And what was Gekko's response to PalmOne's fourth straight profitable quarter?

"PalmOne's current product line is inferior to future product lines from competitors that have not been announced and have no release date."

Pathetic.

RE: Next salvo from MSFT/DELL coming
arielb @ 3/23/2005 11:45:44 PM # Q
Gekko, if Palm goes under, you're not going to see much pda innovation in the future from MSFT and Ipaq either.
I really wish Sony was still in the game. The future for *all* PDA's doesn't look so good right now

Nagel is no Bill Gates and Colligan is no Michael Dell!!!!!!
Gekko @ 3/24/2005 7:55:54 AM # Q
>Gekko, if Palm goes under, you're not going to see much pda innovation in the future from MSFT and Ipaq either.
I really wish Sony was still in the game. The future for *all* PDA's doesn't look so good right now.

I disagree. Companies like MSFT, DELL, INTEL, CSCO are constantly charging ahead. Look at how Windows has evolved in the last 10 years - even with MSFT's "monopoly". People like Bill Gates, Michael Dell, Andy Grove, and John Chambers are WINNERS. The reason they are winners is because they are PARANOID and they don't rest on their laurels. These guys are worth BILLIONS yet they keep fighting and scratching to make their products better and better and BRING INCREASINGLY MORE AND MORE VALUE TO THE CUSTOMER!!!!!!!!! Also, these guys are FOCUSED AND SMART. The problem with PalmOne and PalmSource is, they do not smart, focused, paranoid management running the companies. They have LOSERS running the companies - I repeat - LOSERS. These LOSERS are lazy, arrogant, incompetent, and dumb - and they're all in over their head. The LOSERS are not driving the company ahead. Benhamou, Nagel, Colligan, et al and those that preceded them - Yankowski, Bradley et al are all LOSERS. And shiit all falls down hill. It's all part of the "NEGATIVE SPIRAL" that Gates talks about. If I could blame one man for the destruction of these companies, it would be BENHAMOU because this is the prick that hand picked all of these past/present failures.


ONLY THE PARANOID SURVIVE!

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0385483821/qid=1111669412/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i2_xgl14/104-4261996-7679959?v=glance&s=books&n=507846



RE: Next salvo from MSFT/DELL coming
mikecane @ 3/24/2005 3:04:26 PM # Q
I keep meaning to ask, Gekko -- what is preventing you from going with a Treo? Someone in your (ahem!) position must rely on a cell alot -- so why not a Treo?

RE: Next salvo from MSFT/DELL coming
Gekko @ 3/24/2005 3:41:09 PM # Q
>"I keep meaning to ask, Gekko -- what is preventing you from going with a Treo? Someone in your (ahem!) position must rely on a cell alot -- so why not a Treo?"

I tried the Treo 600 - I sent it back 3 days later. It's an OK PDA and a POOR cell phone. Too big/bulky to take out on the town. Very buggy (too buggy for a cell phone). 160x160 sucks. Poor build quality. Fragile. Bottom line - too many compromises for me to switch from my T3/Nokia 6560. The T650? I will NEVER buy a Palm with NVFS. Same issues with form factor, quality control etc.



RE: Next salvo from MSFT/DELL coming
Gekko @ 3/24/2005 4:00:00 PM # Q
RE: Next salvo from MSFT/DELL coming
mikecane @ 3/24/2005 4:26:13 PM # Q
Did you read the PIC link at the side?

http://biz.yahoo.com/fool/050324/111168649317_1.html

RE: Next salvo from MSFT/DELL coming
svrontis @ 3/24/2005 4:36:07 PM # Q
There is another angle to consider: why are all those WINNERS over at M$, HP and Dell so busy copying what those LOSERS are doing over at p1/PalmSource? This doesn't make sense. And yet the fact remains that HP and Dell are busy churning out palmpilot wannabes. Why is that?

RE: Next salvo from MSFT/DELL coming
Masamune @ 3/24/2005 6:34:47 PM # Q
Gekko

I know you're not a fan of the GSPDA, but the Qool QDA 700 looks quite promising. Smaller than a Treo with all the wireless connectivity. It does lack bluetooth but makes up for it by having SDIO support for Wifi. There's a couple on eBay for about $500 / $599. If you want to get one froma retailer check my update in the general forum section.

As an added bonus, it also comes with Docs to Go 7.

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Dilemas, dilemas.

twrock @ 3/20/2005 12:21:41 AM # Q
"The next generation of handhelds will be released this quarter or early in the next quater.
* One focuses on Business productivity tools and heavily on mobile entertainment"

Hmm..., I thought I had just made a decision about my next PDA. A local shop has a single T3 sitting on the shelf for $300 (US dollar equivalent). I was going to pick up the "last great Palm," but the quote above got me wondering.

One of the things I hate about my T2 (along with the buzzing screen, digitizer drift, and inconsistent graffiti recognition) is the slider. I really don't want another unit with a slider, but I really want full-screen display and virtual graffiti (spoiled from my years with a HandEra 330). The "dumbed down" T5 is not what I want either. But now I'm hesitating. What's the possibility the P1 will finally get it right? You know, every once in a while they hit a homerun. Maybe by accident, but it does happen periodically. (If they just put a 320x480 screen on the TE2, I could probably lived with that too.)

RE: Dilemas, dilemas.
Masamune @ 3/20/2005 5:53:59 AM # Q
If I were you, I wait and see what comes out first, then if you don't like it there are plenty of online stores and eBay where you can pick up a T3. I don't know about the US but in the UK, the sellers market for the T3 has gone way down - you can get a recon TŁ for $160.

RE: Dilemas, dilemas.
skratt @ 3/21/2005 4:35:32 PM # Q
Where can you get a T3 for 160? On eBay they are going for $200 and up.

Let me know. I would like to upgrade to a T3 but not for more the 180.

Thanks

RE: Dilemas, dilemas.
hkklife @ 3/21/2005 4:53:03 PM # Q
$220 seems to be the going rate in 'real world' transactions. I just unloaded mine with a decent amount of peripherals for $265. The fre stores that still have new units left are pricing them (Staples, Office Max) between $325 and $350, it seems.

RE: Dilemas, dilemas.
Shotokan @ 3/21/2005 4:57:49 PM # Q
I purchased the T3 over a year ago and the only two things that I did not like were Bluetooth connection to my phone and the slider. I ended up keeping it open all the time. I bought a Zodiac2 and use it all the time. I use it all my documents, reference books and email. Bluetooth works great for email. It is bigger than the Treo650, but weighs less. Power is great and the screen is incredible. We have Dell PPC in here also and their users like the Zodiac better.
RE: Dilemas, dilemas.
twrock @ 3/21/2005 7:54:43 PM # Q
"...you can get a recon TŁ for $160."

I really don't like purchasing reconditioned units, and the one on the shelf here is new. Interesting that new ones are going for a little over $300 in the USA. That means the price here is pretty good. We usually have to pay a bit more for this kind of hardware, even though it is likely made just across the straits in China.

Still, I'll probably wait until after I get back from vacation next week and see if the world is still here.

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nextel 650

tritan @ 3/20/2005 9:30:32 PM # Q
You think rolling out on other carriers that they will hit the huge Nextel Iden market? Every carrier has the 650 but nextel.

May the Palm os be with you
RE: nextel 650
hkklife @ 3/21/2005 11:43:20 AM # Q
With Nextel's acquisition by Sprint in place, I don't think you'll see a ton of $ spent on new tech for the existing Nextel network. They will just try to milk the current stuff out there while they transition everyone over to Sprint's PCS network for voice and somehow shoehorn Nextel's PTT capabilities onto Sprint. Sort of like how there was the slow, gradual migration of the tons of Cingular & AT&T TDMA customers over to GSM phones & plans over the past couple of years.



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The Smell of Stagnation and Death

Gekko @ 3/22/2005 12:08:04 PM # Q

This place smells of stagnation and death. Nothing to get excited about in Palmland anymore. New products? A rehashed warmed-over TE and T5? Too bad.



RE: The Smell of Stagnation and Death
mikecane @ 3/22/2005 1:22:38 PM # Q
That's not a smell, Gekko. It's a STENCH.

palmOne thinks the Treo will be their savior.

Just wait until they see all the PalmSource licensees making jillions of bucks from those El Cheapo "feature phones" running POS PIMs! Bye-bye Treo!

Thinks aren't very bright on the WinMob front, either. They finally got wise to that hp PPCPhone. Expect the other ones to be dumped too.

And what licensees are pushing metal here except for hp and Dell, eh?

RE: The Smell of Stagnation and Death
Surur @ 3/22/2005 2:14:48 PM # Q
Oh please!! The HP 6315 was junk from the start! 200 Mhz processor? Ugly snap on keyboard! It was a joke. For real innovation on the platform you have to look at HTC. Have you even seen the HTC Jam and HTC Universal?
http://www.msmobiles.com/news.php/3668.html

"As well as winning excellent reviews, users of the Xda generate more than three times the level of mobile data traffic than the second most data-oriented handset - the Nokia 6310i - and on average use up to 4.0MB per month. The average revenue per user (ARPU) of the XDA is around 35% higher then average post-pay ARPU across O2's footprint."

http://www.3g.co.uk/PR/Oct2003/6006.htm

These devices are making european networks very happy indeed.

And if you are looking for a pureplay PDA, the FSC Loox 720 (again, not HP) is also top of the list.

http://www.mobile-review.com/pda/review/vga-comparing-en.shtml

Surur

RE: The Smell of Stagnation and Death
relyons @ 3/22/2005 2:33:19 PM # Q
If this place smells of stagnation and death, why is Gekko still here?

Gekko must be stagnant and/or dead.

Gekko doth protest too much...

RE: The Smell of Stagnation and Death
Masamune @ 3/22/2005 3:49:58 PM # Q
Gekko is here for the same reason you are, I am and everyone else is. Hope. Hope that they will be proved wrong and the next device will be a true competitor to the new models hp and Dell are pushing.

Cobalt is a sore point with everyone. The T5 was a let down for existing users - newcomers had little to complain about. Quite a lot of people don't like the design of the Tapwaves (whingers! - =P). This is why they are hoping that PalmOne will be able to finally deliver a good Palm OS device.

RE: The Smell of Stagnation and Death
Gekko @ 3/22/2005 6:21:56 PM # Q

Masamune - Thanks.

MikeCon - that HP phone is getting replaced:

http://www.msmobiles.com/news.php/3587.html



Not bad for PPC....
Masamune @ 3/23/2005 4:35:52 AM # Q
This new one is a marked improvement over that crock of s*** the hp 6315. The nice design could draw away potential Treo customers...

RE: The Smell of Stagnation and Death
mikecane @ 3/23/2005 9:36:11 AM # Q
Feh! Small Square Screen. Forward to he Past, hp!

This will be a crock too. After all, it runs WinMob!

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