Comments on: palmOne Conference Call Highlights

Wow. 66:28 ratio (almost 2/3 - 1/3) of PDA sells to smartfones. Now I'm sure the gross revenue is near 50:50, since no $99 or $199 cells are in that mix, but I was under the impression from the December report that it was closing in on 50:50.

How are phone sales even calculated? Do they trickle out the door or is it based on Sprint signing a contract for 150,000 Treos for example? Does this skew the #s.

Looks like the T|C2 with some serious multimedia and T|E2 are coming. No Zire 73?

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

Agreed.

Note also that the TE is so light on features/gimmicks that it was never considered worthy of a review on PIC. Kinda suggests that there is a reasonable market out there, in the real world, for the kind of palmpilots which geeks like us would shun.

Confession: I use a TE every day - and love it - I even have a spare for the dreaded day that the first one goes to meet the big engineer in the sky! My T2, with all its features, sits 'alone and palely loitering' in a cupboard.

I just hope that the forthcoming TE2 is thinner and lighter than the TE, with better battery life. I fear, however, that it will be spoiled by the inclusion of a BT radio or, worse still, a WiFi radio. (shudder)

Actually, turning Bluetooth off does not significantly improve battery life. Turning it off on the T5 saves about 5-10 minutes of battery life.

'Worse still, a WiFi radio'? We'd be so lucky for PalmOne to include WiFi on a TE2.

If PalmOne had listened to us (the majority in PalmInfocenter) in the first place, the only model they'd be selling would be a souped-up Tungsten T6 with the lot, and they'd never even consider making a lightweight m515 replacement (that's the Tungsten E), because as a bunch of power users, the majority of us wouldn't buy it...

Good thing they listen to actual representative consumers then, eh?

The V/m500s were sleek and had a lovely little wedge shape at the bottom (more pronounced on the m5xxs) that made it very comfortable to hold in your hand. Additionallly, all of them had aluminum housings--even the cheapish m500 had a plastic back panel with an aluminum front. The T|E reeks of cheapness all the way around with its construction & finish. While it was a fine set of specs for the $ at the time of its launch and you cannot really expect better in a budget model, it should NEVER be mentioned in the same breath as the classic V/m500 formfactor--the definitive, classic PDA shape.

IMHO, the m5xx remains the paradigm of handheld design. The stylus was superb, the case rail has yet to be matched, and it fit perfectly in the hand. The T|E is thicker and more more squarish in shape, not too terribly comfortable to hold and the finish is sort of slippery and prone to fingerprint smudges. Quite simpply, it looks cheap & clunky. The V/Vx/m500s do not. That's the difference between classic Ideo styling & P1 in-house design.

Wrong. They don't need support headaches ("This upgrade killed my Palm!") and they make more from you buying a new Palm than they would from selling you an OS upgrade. Economics 101.

Handera was the only company that was good about supporting users with upgrades and look where they are. (I went from 3.1 to 3.52 to 4.x on my TRGpro, all at no cost. That didn't help Handera's bottom line - even though it generated a lot of goodwill. But goodwill doesn't pay the rent.)





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Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

Yes, what it all boils down to is money, there is no question. OS Upgrades can also be made into a source of revenue for PalmOne. They did charge for the 3.5 and 4.1 upgrades when they did come out, and it's pretty much a matter of software engineering to make the upgrade work properly on each handheld. They already charge you for phone support. All the PalmOne hardware is pretty much regulated by PalmOne itself, and so there is practically no difference between 2 units of the same model, especially if the upgrade does a hard reset on the machine before applying itself, which OS 3.3, 3.5, and 4.1 upgrades did. It's not like upgrading Windows 98 to XP. RIM did it for the Blackberry with their 4.0 firmware, and it just gives added value for people who already own the handhelds.

PalmPilot Professional -> Sony Clie N760C -> Palm Tungsten T ->PalmOne Tungsten T5

There is 4Mb of Flash in the US version of the T. No post-5.0 device has fitted its OS into 4Mb, for well-documented reasons.

If P1 were not so hell-bent on adding Graffiti 2 into everything post OS 5.0 and were selective with their featres, at least a bugfix ROM update could very well fit in a T|T. The main thing added by 5.2 was basically BT improvements, UI changes and G2. Leaving the "fluff" out of the ROM update and concentrating on just addressing some of the major T|T bugs could have asily been done. But Palm Inc. would rather just push that model out of the way and pretend it never existed.

On the forums of PIC or Brighthand, there are even posts & pics of an Oslo prototype that someone bought running OS 5.2 (using an internally-leaked, never released beta flash for T|Ts).

In fact, Pat aka LiveFaith used to possess a couple of hybrid T|Ts that were running software on hardware that was never commercially available IIRC.

Voice, sorry for not making that clear earlier--I didn't mean that Palm should issue a bugfix *NOW* for the T|T. It was essentially EOL as soon as the T|C & Z71 were released. A proper ROM update should have come sometime shortly after the T|T2 shipped in summer '03 and then the T could have been put out to pasture properly.

At any rate, OS upgrades are a thing of the past. I WOULD like, however, to see P1 implement some sort of one-freebie-per-handheld of the built-in ROM apps, either as a freebie or for a nominal fee. All of the T|C owners out there have a handheld that's basically dated only by its software bundle and not by its hardware specs. I'll refrain from commenting on Xerox here and the G1 fiasco as everyone knows where I stand on the issue anyway...

Is that 4 PDA models or 4 models counting the Treo(s)?
I figure cheap Zire 31, midrange Zire 73, cheap Tungsten E2, high-end Tungsten T6 or a new flagship model-Veld, LifeDrive etc.

I'd much rather see a tightly-knit, solid lineup of models anyday than the overlapping lineup of stragglers and past-their-prime handheld that have comprised the roster for the past 4 years or so.

Phonelink & bugfixes should be free & a given, at least for $200+ devices (T|E and up).

Updates would be appreciated, even with a nomimal fee attached to them (like $5 per each built-in app or something).

Might the mythical "Veld" line finally make an appearance? What about some sort of enhanced Apple integration/tie-in (ie the ballyhooed "LifeDrive" that's making the rumor circles)?

I predict one of thbe following for the OTHER new unit--the T|E2 is self-explanatory.

1. A mini-tablet style OS5 device with dual wireless and two expansion slots--SDIO & CF. There's a chance it'll be bundled with a Microdrive of some kind. This might not even be called a Tungsten.

2. A Zire 73 with a large (512mb-1gb) internal flash drive. Expect a beefy battery and an improved camera.

3. A T5 with nothing more than the features the T5 shoulda had originally--voice recorder, wi-fi, bigger battery & more internal storage.

My $ is on #2 based on P1's recent history and the needs of the current lineup. At any rate, today's news is the best sign of life we've seen from those ol' boys at Palm since the launch of the T3 18 months ago.

What worries me more than anything else with Collagen's conference call talking point highlights is the dual focus on "business productivity tools and heavily on mobile entertainment" Usually jack-of-all-trade devices end up not being particular adept at anything. Having "business" anywhere in the description makes me tend to rule out a built-in digicam and lean more towards scenario #3.

"At any rate, today's news is the best sign of life we've seen from those ol' boys at Palm since the launch of the T3 18 months ago."

Well said.

"A mini-tablet style OS5 device with dual wireless and two expansion slots--SDIO & CF. There's a chance it'll be bundled with a Microdrive of some kind. This might not even be called a Tungsten."

Sure. Rather, I would bet my money on a new Zire and E. Already a few mistakes by vendors posting the model of a new Zire (just like with the T5); and the admission of the E.

"The company is diverting R&D and money to deliver more phones on more networks faster."

Does that mean increased or decreased specifications/features for future devices? Second, how great was their research and development anyways?

"When asked Colligan confirmed the Verizon Treo 650 would support the high speed EV-DO standard."

Big farking deal. Verizons Vcast service is lame to say the least.

"Kinda suggests that there is a reasonable market out there, in the real world, for the kind of palmpilots which geeks like us would shun."

I think that is the most true statement said yet.

I remember PDA Essentials chief comment on the 6315:

"It's as ugly as sin."

Having seen and used one of the things briefly, I'm inclined to agree with the link above.

Before you run from Palm because you read message boards of a few hundred troubled (many simply because they aren't familiar with the product and/or add some troubled freeware) users, you better read the thousands of Pocket PC troubles. Take from someone who learned the expensive way (buying products), Palm is as solid as it gets.

As for Gekko's stuff...That's just him and his stubbornly blind loyalty to hammer Palm. Blow it off as him having fun. It's been the same alarm of how Palm can't survive for about 7 years now.

Basically, here's the thought to keep in mind:
Apple's computers work while PC's get worked on.
palmOne's products work well while PPC's work (though bulky).

:)

TooMuch said, "As for Gekko's stuff...That's just him and his stubbornly blind loyalty to hammer Palm."

And what was Gekko's response to PalmOne's fourth straight profitable quarter?

"PalmOne's current product line is inferior to future product lines from competitors that have not been announced and have no release date."

Pathetic.

>Gekko, if Palm goes under, you're not going to see much pda innovation in the future from MSFT and Ipaq either.
I really wish Sony was still in the game. The future for *all* PDA's doesn't look so good right now.

I disagree. Companies like MSFT, DELL, INTEL, CSCO are constantly charging ahead. Look at how Windows has evolved in the last 10 years - even with MSFT's "monopoly". People like Bill Gates, Michael Dell, Andy Grove, and John Chambers are WINNERS. The reason they are winners is because they are PARANOID and they don't rest on their laurels. These guys are worth BILLIONS yet they keep fighting and scratching to make their products better and better and BRING INCREASINGLY MORE AND MORE VALUE TO THE CUSTOMER!!!!!!!!! Also, these guys are FOCUSED AND SMART. The problem with PalmOne and PalmSource is, they do not smart, focused, paranoid management running the companies. They have LOSERS running the companies - I repeat - LOSERS. These LOSERS are lazy, arrogant, incompetent, and dumb - and they're all in over their head. The LOSERS are not driving the company ahead. Benhamou, Nagel, Colligan, et al and those that preceded them - Yankowski, Bradley et al are all LOSERS. And shiit all falls down hill. It's all part of the "NEGATIVE SPIRAL" that Gates talks about. If I could blame one man for the destruction of these companies, it would be BENHAMOU because this is the prick that hand picked all of these past/present failures.

ONLY THE PARANOID SURVIVE!

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0385483821/qid=1111669412/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i2_xgl14/104-4261996-7679959?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

>"I keep meaning to ask, Gekko -- what is preventing you from going with a Treo? Someone in your (ahem!) position must rely on a cell alot -- so why not a Treo?"

I tried the Treo 600 - I sent it back 3 days later. It's an OK PDA and a POOR cell phone. Too big/bulky to take out on the town. Very buggy (too buggy for a cell phone). 160x160 sucks. Poor build quality. Fragile. Bottom line - too many compromises for me to switch from my T3/Nokia 6560. The T650? I will NEVER buy a Palm with NVFS. Same issues with form factor, quality control etc.

Did you read the PIC link at the side?

http://biz.yahoo.com/fool/050324/111168649317_1.html

Gekko

I know you're not a fan of the GSPDA, but the Qool QDA 700 looks quite promising. Smaller than a Treo with all the wireless connectivity. It does lack bluetooth but makes up for it by having SDIO support for Wifi. There's a couple on eBay for about $500 / $599. If you want to get one froma retailer check my update in the general forum section.

As an added bonus, it also comes with Docs to Go 7.

If I were you, I wait and see what comes out first, then if you don't like it there are plenty of online stores and eBay where you can pick up a T3. I don't know about the US but in the UK, the sellers market for the T3 has gone way down - you can get a recon T£ for $160.

$220 seems to be the going rate in 'real world' transactions. I just unloaded mine with a decent amount of peripherals for $265. The fre stores that still have new units left are pricing them (Staples, Office Max) between $325 and $350, it seems.

"...you can get a recon T£ for $160."

I really don't like purchasing reconditioned units, and the one on the shelf here is new. Interesting that new ones are going for a little over $300 in the USA. That means the price here is pretty good. We usually have to pay a bit more for this kind of hardware, even though it is likely made just across the straits in China.

Still, I'll probably wait until after I get back from vacation next week and see if the world is still here.

With Nextel's acquisition by Sprint in place, I don't think you'll see a ton of $ spent on new tech for the existing Nextel network. They will just try to milk the current stuff out there while they transition everyone over to Sprint's PCS network for voice and somehow shoehorn Nextel's PTT capabilities onto Sprint. Sort of like how there was the slow, gradual migration of the tons of Cingular & AT&T TDMA customers over to GSM phones & plans over the past couple of years.

That's not a smell, Gekko. It's a STENCH.

palmOne thinks the Treo will be their savior.

Just wait until they see all the PalmSource licensees making jillions of bucks from those El Cheapo "feature phones" running POS PIMs! Bye-bye Treo!

Thinks aren't very bright on the WinMob front, either. They finally got wise to that hp PPCPhone. Expect the other ones to be dumped too.

And what licensees are pushing metal here except for hp and Dell, eh?

If this place smells of stagnation and death, why is Gekko still here?

Gekko must be stagnant and/or dead.

Gekko doth protest too much...

Masamune - Thanks.

MikeCon - that HP phone is getting replaced:

http://www.msmobiles.com/news.php/3587.html

Feh! Small Square Screen. Forward to he Past, hp!

This will be a crock too. After all, it runs WinMob!