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Comments on: palmOne Announces the Tungsten E2 Handheld

palmOne Announces the Tungten E2 HandheldBuilding on the popularity of the Tungsten E handheld, which has sold nearly 2 million units worldwide, palmOne today announced the Tungsten E2 handheld. Some of the additions include a brighter color screen, flash memory, Bluetooth wireless technology and a more powerful battery.
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Nothing Unexpected

I.M Anonymous @ 4/13/2005 12:11:54 AM # Q
Looks like the rumors were true (and, surprise surprise, the FCC photos weren't fake).

Nice to see that the WiFi card is supported.

RE: Nothing Unexpected
E Ben G @ 4/13/2005 12:32:26 AM # Q
You know, on the one hand, updating the T|E is sorta boring. On the other hand, this is a nice update to a successful little unit.

1. Bluetooth - nice.

2. The 200 MHz chip might help reduce the terrible screen noise some T|E users (including myself) had. (I'm going out of my technical depth to say that...I'm just going off of the results I got in reducing the noise by overclockinng)

3. As the 1st poster pointed out, wifi support is a good correction to a silly oversight on the E.

Not bad. I think $250 is a little high, especially compared to what you can get from Dell. But overall a good update.


Attn: Ryan! Misinformation from P1 or a typo?
hkklife @ 4/13/2005 12:42:25 AM # Q
It says there's 26mb free early in the release then a few paragraphs down it says 28mb is available. Any idea which figure is correct?

I imagine a lot of users will be starved for space upgrading from T2s or T|Es and those 2mb of RAM might make a noticable difference in being able to have some breathing room.

I have to admit being quite disappointed the price is $250. For $250, the memory should be double what it is now, NVFS or not! Part of the original attraction of the T|E was that it offered SO much bang for the $ at $200. While I could see $220/$225 for the E2 at launch, $250 is simply far too much, especially when you can get the lovely Zire 72s that trumps the E2 in multimedia features, formfactor (arguable), styling (arguable), and 32mb of old fashioned RAM. By the time this thing drops to $225 by this fall or the magical $200 price point by '06, there' no telling where the PPC market will be.


Also, I doubt too many users will know/care about the Athena connector on the E2 as peripherals are still very scare and it doesn't come bundled with a cradle. Still it's nice to FINALLY see a serious commitment to a connector; it's somethign we haven't seen since '02 when every single model Palm released had the UC other than the first Zire.


RE: Nothing Unexpected
twizza @ 4/13/2005 12:49:39 AM # Q
See review here: http://www.bargainpda.com/default.asp?newsID=2484

Its 29.8MB usable actually. The screen is quite awesome, no pic will translate how much better it is than anything besides the m515. I like it and think that the consumer market will, if not for any other reason than the NAND RAM (which my intital survey of PG County employees is a nice thing to have compared to even wireless abilities).

antoinerjwright.com

RE: Memory space
Admin @ 4/13/2005 2:13:56 AM # Q
Yes, the release I got from palmOne must have had a type on the available RAM. After a hard reset, the TE2 shows 29.7 MB free. Thanks.

-Ryan

RE: Nothing Unexpected
svrontis @ 4/13/2005 5:46:17 AM # Q
twizza, thanks for the link.

Here is another review:

http://www.mobiletechreview.com/palmOne_Tungsten_E2.htm

Two points
mikecane @ 4/13/2005 12:57:22 PM # Q
>>>The Tungsten E2 handheld has a new, 30% brighter 320x320 color display

Maybe the battery-friendly FRAM would make a difference... maybe I could crank up the backlight, but on the TE, I use SilkDimmer to drop it down to 6% to not have to recharge 5x a day. Would my 6% now look like 8%? For that matter, have any of the under-NDA-so-long reviewers even bothered to *try* SilkDimmer? (I can see the rush to get the software right now...)

>>>p32MB of non-volatile flash memory with 29.7 MB actual storage capacity gives Tungsten E2 handheld users more than enough room to hold their calendars, contacts, applications, photos, spreadsheets and presentations.

What kind of pills are these people popping? I wouldn't be able to transfer everything I have from the TE to this!

RE: Nothing Unexpected
twizza @ 4/13/2005 1:06:06 PM # Q
MC: Maybe the battery-friendly FRAM would make a difference... maybe I could crank up the backlight, but on the TE, I use SilkDimmer to drop it down to 6% to not have to recharge 5x a day. Would my 6% now look like 8%? For that matter, have any of the under-NDA-so-long reviewers even bothered to *try* SilkDimmer? (I can see the rush to get the software right now...)

On the E2 you dont need this program. It is much more efficient than the TE was, it walks that same power drain line the T5 does, and the T5 is a beast - not as nasty as the TH55, but quite better than most else out there.

MC: What kind of pills are these people popping? I wouldn't be able to transfer everything I have from the TE to this!

Mike, the RAM has been tweaked from what you saw with the TE and even with the T5/Treo650. For one, you get more usable RAM than the TE (29.8 versus 28.8) and faster performance. Pull your fingers out your mouth and come play with the older kids :)

antoinerjwright.com

RE: Nothing Unexpected
twizza @ 4/13/2005 1:17:55 PM # Q
Sarcaism is just light on my part, anything more than that would be crossing the line on my end. I try to stay away from the need to use stars and what have you. I have more than just myself that I represent when I am online try not to cut up too much. That being said, some of the sniping that has been happening on PIC lately is quite childish. I appreciate one's opinion as much as another's but the personal attacks frankly add nothing to the content of the convo. No need to call out names or anything, but just in general, I try to hold myself to a higher standard than the norm.

[stepping off the soap box now]

I think Mike that the E2 would be right up your alley. I surmise from your S320 and TE days that you look for value predicated functionality. The E2 more than fits that, and gives you enough without being fluffy. Seeing also that the E2 supports the palmOne wifi card (soon to be $99 - which means even less at other places) makes for a nice solution for the mobile writer such as yourself Mike.

antoinerjwright.com

RE: Nothing Unexpected
mikecane @ 4/13/2005 1:19:17 PM # Q
Oh look at this! twizza forgets his Bible training! Want a freakin smack, do you? Turn the other cheek afterwards, so I can do it too! Covering up that you didn't try SilkDimmer, are you?

RE: Nothing Unexpected
twizza @ 4/13/2005 1:23:33 PM # Q
No forgetting of Bible traning, just stepping up a bit, and as I said in the last post, I am stepping back.

I'll try Silk Dimmer, but never really *wanted* it. I usually dont try programs that I wouldnt forsee a need for. But in this case, I'll do that and the G1 hack for those who've asked.

antoinerjwright.com

RE: Nothing Unexpected
mikecane @ 4/13/2005 1:27:01 PM # Q
Thanks, twizza. That'd be appreciated. I'm eager to know about Silk and *everyone* wants to know if G1 has been resurrected. Geez -- will we have to go through all this for G1 with *Cobalt* too?!

RE: Nothing Unexpected
Gekko @ 4/13/2005 1:27:34 PM # Q

"Born again?! No, I'm not. Excuse me for getting it right the first time." - Dennis Miller

"The trouble with born-again Christians is that they are an even bigger pain the second time around." - Herb Caen



RE: Nothing Unexpected
mikecane @ 4/13/2005 1:29:04 PM # Q
Oh, just saw your other post, twizza. Well, having this loaner TE from Ryan has been pretty traumatic. The G area has been crap since Day One and there's been a creeping paralysis of the entire digitizer that is still progressing. Otherwise, the speed compared to the S320 has been a revelation. And color is a great step up too.

RE: Nothing Unexpected
mikecane @ 4/13/2005 1:31:08 PM # Q
Gekko, that was uncalled for. You and I snipe at each other because we like to. Denigrating twizza's beliefs like that is poor form. But then, you never have good form, do you?

And twizza, I'm sure, knows I was being a **** (my asterisks, put as many as you like for a proper label).

RE: Nothing Unexpected
Gekko @ 4/13/2005 1:36:44 PM # Q

oh lighten up!

RE: Nothing Unexpected
I.M Anonymous @ 4/13/2005 2:01:19 PM # Q
They added 180mah to the battery, so that combined with the NVFS should improve battery life.

RE: Nothing Unexpected
RhinoSteve @ 4/13/2005 2:16:08 PM # Q
This works for me. At $250 it will sell well sans the moaning college students and retail slaves that post here.
Apologies Are An Order
twizza @ 4/14/2005 1:01:01 AM # Q
VOR:
One of my fav scriptures is in Matthew 7 where it says simply to judge not lest that same judgement come back to you. I know that I laid myself out there when I said that, and do not mean to take it back. More often than not I try to read above the comments people do back and forth and just get to the meat of the issue. I didnt this time. If doing that offened you or anyone, please accept my apologies.

MC: If I offended you, didnt mean to. Not to justify it in saying that I was being sarcastic. I said what I felt at that moment. If I offended you, I apoligize.

Now that I have done my part in taking this part of the thread off topic, I will sign off for the night. Peace and blessings to all.

antoinerjwright.com

twizza: NEVER apologize for brutalizing Cane
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 4/14/2005 1:58:21 AM # Q
First of all, I was joking. Secondly, you need to learn how to make Cane sob like a quivering tub of Jello. (Step 1: post photos of PalmSource BDSM (femme) afficionado, [edited by PIC]. Step 2: don't post MPEG of same FemBot (remember Steve Austin?) in "action". Step 3: Enjoy said video on your OLED-screened VZ90 while MC Yammer remains stuck using his flaccid stylus on the unresponsive digitizer of his "borrowed", disintegrating Tungsten E. Life is good™.)

I do not want to corrupt thee, 'Toine, for thou art reborn in the Holy Spirit. Bless you, my son.

"Blessed be the CLIE users, for they are the Chosen Ones. Let him that hath understanding reckon the number of The Beast. For it is of human number. And its number is Tungsten 5."
-Hawkins 7:3

"Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water. Biotch.”
-John 4:10




------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

Ruth 3
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 4/14/2005 2:31:31 AM # Q
One day Naomi her mother-in-law said to her, "My daughter, should I not try to find a home for you, where you will be well provided for? Is not Boaz, with whose servant girls you have been, a kinsman of ours? Tonight he will be winnowing barley on the threshing floor. Wash and perfume yourself, and put on your best clothes. Then go down to the threshing floor, but don't let him know you are there until he has finished eating and drinking. When he lies down, note the place where he is lying. Then go and uncover his feet and lie down. He will tell you what to do."

I will do whatever you say," Ruth answered. So she went down to the threshing floor and did everything her mother-in-law told her to do.

When Boaz had finished eating and drinking and was in good spirits, he went over to lie down at the far end of the grain pile. Ruth approached quietly, uncovered his feet and lay down. In the middle of the night something startled the man, and he turned and discovered a woman lying at his feet.

Who are you?" he asked.
"I am your servant Ruth," she said. "Spread the corner of your garment over me, since you are a kinsman-redeemer."

"The LORD bless you, my daughter," he replied. "This kindness is greater than that which you showed earlier: You have not run after the younger men, whether rich or poor. And now, my daughter, don't be afraid. I will do for you all you ask.

W T F???




------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: Nothing Unexpected
mikecane @ 4/14/2005 9:51:27 AM # Q
Oh look. S/he learned a new word today: "Vile." No doubt by looking in the mirror. You must have thrown a party yesterday -- implants are coming back. Better buy as many as your CLIEs!

twizza: I wasn't offended. If anything, I was surprised that came from *you*! There are Bad Influences here. Satan lurks. Don't forget: PPC = 666!

Reply to this comment

where's my T|C update?

drw @ 4/13/2005 12:43:21 AM # Q
Take a treo 90 shell, put a bright 480x480 screen, loose the flip lid, put bluetooth, wifi, media player which plays native files without conversion, file manager, palmBEOS 6, 600mhz processor, 256meg nvram and call it a day.

My T|C is getting old and when I pull it out of my pocket sometimes the styles goes flying out. Something as thick as the current T|C should have a 20 gig harddrive in it at least.

Puleezz palm one update it pretty please!!!!

---
David

RE: where's my T|C update?
kleung21 @ 4/13/2005 2:52:45 AM # Q
I have the same problem with my stylus on my older TT. Try wrapping a single layer of scotch tape around the stylus, that should do the trick.

I suggest you do this now as I lost a stylus when i just ignored the problem (hoping it would go away on its own).

RE: where's my T|C update?
Geezer @ 4/13/2005 8:25:34 AM # Q
I like the specs above - just right. Why doesn't Palm come up with another keyboard unit. Once you get into it you won't go back. the stylus is also useful but not for dealing with text entry.

RE: where's my T|C update?
JonAcheson @ 4/13/2005 2:31:23 PM # Q
My competing proposal:

Take a Game Boy Advance SP. Make the case metal. Mount a 320x320 screen in the lid. Put a d-pad, two app buttons and a keyboard where the GBA controls are. Put in two SD sockets, add WiFi card support. Add built in bluetooth, and a replaceable battery.

Sell for $250.

Step 3: profit.


"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."

RE: where's my T|C update?
Wollombi @ 4/13/2005 3:00:53 PM # Q
That sounds eerily similar to a Sonly UX50...

_________________
Sean

There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.

RE: where's my T|C update?
AdamaDBrown @ 4/13/2005 3:38:08 PM # Q
Except it's affordable.

RE: where's my T|C update?
hkklife @ 4/13/2005 4:05:16 PM # Q
...and it'd be guaranteed to have better hardware buttons/d-pad!



RE: where's my T|C update?
JonAcheson @ 4/13/2005 6:44:09 PM # Q
And it would have a decent screen and keyboard.

I looked at the UX50, but the screen was so dim, and the keyboard so mediocre, that it wasn't even tempting. Plus, there was the Memory Stick issue, which is a show-stopper now that I've bought into SD for my devices.

"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."

RE: where's my T|C update?
gfunkmagic @ 4/14/2005 12:18:18 AM # Q
Yeah it is kinda strange that there hasn't been a followup to the TC form factor. It seems like a year ago, thumbboard integrated pdas were the rage with the TC, Treo 90, hp 4300, clie Ux and etc. OEM's all seemed to be releasing pdas with integrated thumbbaords. Now you can't seem to find them anywhere except for in smartphone/pda-phone devices. That's too bad imo...

I support http://Tapland.com/

--------------------
GNM

RE: where's my T|C update?
Geezer @ 4/14/2005 4:02:09 AM # Q
Lack of a keyboard is what cripples all the other Palms - even I think this up-coming Life Drive (as well as the fact that its processor is really no faster than a T|C, I mean 16 Mhz).
The big drawback to a PDA is getting the data in, particularly text, with a keyboard on the unit its made a lot easier.
DocsToGo is very good and syncing with the desktop is great but you have to get the text in somehow in the first place to make the PDA an effective tool.
I wrote large parts of a book using memo pad and a Palm VX (sometimes with a fold up keyboard) sometimes just using the stylus and it was a nightmare.
The T|C changed all that. But newer models won't/don't even use G1...

RE: where's my T|C update?
dagwud @ 4/14/2005 2:13:32 PM # Q
Geezer Wrote:

Lack of a keyboard is what cripples all the other Palms - even I think this up-coming Life Drive ... The big drawback to a PDA is getting the data in, particularly text, with a keyboard on the unit its made a lot easier.

I respectfully disagree. I hate thumbboards. I'm at least twice as fast with Graffiti as I am with a thumbboard. And if I really need to enter text, I've got a portable keyboard.

The buttons on thumbboards are too small to be useful for me. I have difficulty pressing just one at a time. And I know others who share my opinion of thumbboards.

Lack of a thumbboard may make using a Palm difficult for some. Others of us are glad for the absence.

--
Palm Pilot Pro -> III -> Vx -> m500 -> m515 -> ???

RE: where's my T|C update?
JonAcheson @ 4/14/2005 10:33:40 PM # Q
So don't buy a device with a thumb-board. You at least have plenty of options. We who like them don't, hence our complaint.

"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."
RE: where's my T|C update?
dagwud @ 4/15/2005 8:31:30 AM # Q
I completely agree that those who like thumbboards don't have many options in the Palm PDA market save the TC and the Treo 6xxes. And there probably should be more thumbboarded models.

But the point wasn't about availability of thumbboard equipped PDAs, it was about whether or not the lack of a thumbboard is a "crippling" design flaw.

It's not.

Annoying for those who want a thumbboard, to be sure. But hardly "crippling."

--
Palm Pilot Pro -> III -> Vx -> m500 -> m515 -> ???

RE: where's my T|C update?
JonAcheson @ 4/15/2005 3:29:00 PM # Q
I see your point.

Though, "crippled" certainly sums up my thoughts on text entry with G2. Your mileage obviously varies.

I'm curious: do you view your handheld as primarily a text-based device? Because for me, it's very much a replacement for a paper notebook.

Jon Acheson

"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."

RE: where's my T|C update?
dagwud @ 4/17/2005 9:28:01 PM # Q
On the postion that G2 is a "crippling" feature, you and I agree. I don't like the changes made to make G2 function.

As for my use, I use my Palm as a replacement for my paper dayplanner. I also use it for some basic wordprocessing and note taking (Wordsmith). I do a little budgeting on it (Quicksheet). And I use it to take some of my frequently needed databases with me (Smartlists To Go).

Of course, there are some games on it as well. But most of my use of my m515 is interactive - that is, I don't read ebooks or websites. I'm using it for data or text entry and recall.

It's a handy little tool, and the m515 still looks stylish - unlike some of the recent offerings (Tungsten T series aside).

--
Palm Pilot Pro -> III -> Vx -> m500 -> m515 -> ???

Reply to this comment

Good feature set, but should have listed for $199.

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 4/13/2005 1:45:23 AM # Q
$199 would have appealed to a LOT more people than $249 will. $199 is the most important "sweet spot" for PDAs these days. At "less than $200", the Tungsten E was more or less an impulse buy for a few people in brick & mortar stores. The TE²'s extra $50 is likely to cost Palm quite a number of sales.


The PDA sections in many retailers like CompUSSR and Staples has been reduced to an embarassingly-small 6 foot counter littered with old, broken display models. On the surface, at least, the TE² appears to have what it takes to steal the spotlight from the lower end PPCs.

I only have one major concern with the TE²:Will the construction quality be as shoddy as the TE and Palm's other recent models? If Palm tries to get away with offering only a 3 month warranty, I guess we'll have our answer on the Quality Control issue...


Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: Good feature set, but should have listed for $199.
Masamune @ 4/13/2005 4:44:51 AM # Q
I think a small price drop could help sales. It's also worth mentioning that the TE is the best selling Palm handheld ever, so I can understand P1's reluctance to mess around with a winning formula. As for why it didn't have 64Mb RAM, with that amount it could damage sales of the T5.

RE: Good feature set, but should have listed for $199.
dq @ 4/13/2005 7:09:07 AM # Q
This is "pricing by the book". You start at a higher price point to get money out of people who will buy it just because it is new, it also helps cleaning any TE inventory that is left. Latter you drop the price.

Daniel

RE: Good feature set, but should have listed for $199.
InsGuy @ 4/13/2005 10:56:16 AM # Q
I don't really think it has that good of features.

Price: $250

Compare it to the Zodiac1, which costs about the same. Both have 32MB memory (tho the E2 is nifty flash memory), the Zodiac has a much bigger and higher res display, both have bluetooth, the Zodiac has TWO card slots, both have 200Mhz CPU's, the Zodiac has a higher capacity battery, the Zodiac has stereo speakers etc.

The Zodiac is TWO YEARS OLD.

So here's PalmOne, TWO YEARS LATER - asking $250 for a device that is IN MY OPINION already (mostly) old tired technology. It's not worth $250. Even $200 would be too much.

But it's Palm. So it will sell to the faithful.

All good things...

TE2 runs Palm OS Garnet v5.4.7. They missed a few decimals..
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 4/13/2005 10:48:55 PM # Q
I wonder if we'll be seeing PalmOS 5.9.9.9.3.4.1.2 on new releases in 2015?


------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: Good feature set, but should have listed for $199.
ackmondual @ 4/14/2005 1:03:59 AM # Q
Palm Inc./PalmOne lagging behind the times? That's history....

Palm Inc. was always a step or two behind Handspring

.... behind Sony
.... behind HP
.... behind Dell
.... and now Tapwave

Let's see where this list goes from here...
But yeah, ppl 'll get it b/c of a combo of the following:

1) it has the P1 name on it.... much like how the superstitious crowd is still wary of AMD even it pretty much is another Intel roughly in terms of performance. Ppl may either never have heard of Tapwave Zodiac or just feel safer with something with the Palm logo on it (the front of the handheld)

2) it looks more business liek than the Zods. It wouldn't be a major deciding factor for me, but it is nice to have a T3 at work or classes and get away with vids and games on it :D

[signature0]the secret to enjoying your job is to have a hobby that's even worse[/signature0]
[signature1]My PDAs: Visor --> Visor Neo (blue) --> Zire 71 --> Tungsten T3[/signature1]

DON'T FORGET
ackmondual @ 4/14/2005 1:09:12 AM # Q
and oh, i forgot to mention, 2 areas where the T|E2 are better:

Zod1 only has 24MB of user RAM... the TE2 has 29.7MB. That 5MB or so of RAM may make all the difference in the world to some .... (assuming the NVFS issue of ballooning apps gets fixed)

Despite both having the same clockspeeds, the TE2's Xscale processor may be better in architecture than the Zods' Motorala one.... if that's true, than the TE2 may yield better performance

[signature0]the secret to enjoying your job is to have a hobby that's even worse[/signature0]
[signature1]My PDAs: Visor --> Visor Neo (blue) --> Zire 71 --> Tungsten T3[/signature1]

RE: Good feature set, but should have listed for $199.
twrock @ 4/14/2005 6:07:20 AM # Q
Compare it to the Zodiac1, which costs about the same.

Now can we get the Tapwave people to hacksaw off the end with the analog joystick, keep everything else the same, and sell the unit for $199? The "problem" with the Zod's in many people's minds is that it was designed to be a serious game machine. Euchre and the occasional solitaire are about as "gamie" as I get.

Reply to this comment

Where's the beef?

kleung21 @ 4/13/2005 2:54:42 AM # Q
I agree with the previous user... I think this is a good update on the Tungsten E... BUT!

Where's the high end model... We've (all?) been disappointed by the so-called T5 so hopefully, they'll have a T/C or better high end model released soon. ??? Lifedrive??? Why the delay in the announcement?

Reply to this comment

RAM size?

fanoush @ 4/13/2005 4:37:16 AM # Q
There is nothing on plamone site or in the reviews about RAM size. 32MB/29MB is probably size of flash/NVFS memory, not RAM.

How big is dynamic heap for programs?
How big is cache for NVFS? Where is the OS stored, also in ram like on T5? How much it takes in ram and flash? Are there some hidden internal drives like on T5, how big?

RE: RAM size?
twizza @ 4/13/2005 9:00:00 AM # Q
I need to load an app that will check the swap file size, but from teh performance it is the same as the T5.

32MB total, 29.8 usable

antoinerjwright.com

Reply to this comment

It realy looks like a 515-2

rlutz @ 4/13/2005 7:35:18 AM # Q
I have had a palm since the Pilot days, I have upgraded only becasue of failure of the older unit, though I did get a 515 for Christmas a few years ago. I am really happy with my 515. It could be faster, have a better screen, have more memories or something else. but the main reason I have it is to carry around my PC's MS outlook and not much more. I love some of the special programs that do this and that, and I am addicted to reading E-books but the main thing is my schedules and contacts and I think this is a great successor to the 515 even kind of looks the same

I think therfore I am overqualified to work here....
RE: It realy looks like a 515-2
Eraserhead @ 4/13/2005 7:47:03 AM # Q
This is, in my oppinion, what PalmOne does best. A great looking small and eligant device with good screen, good battery life. Bit they should really start thinking about there upper class devices, if they want to hafa a upper class selection in the first place.

Current mobile setup:
HP iPAQ 2215 With 1GB CF, 256 SD, CF Wifi

Psion Series 7 with 128 MB CF card

Sony Ericsson T68i with Bluetooth headset.

RE: It realy looks like a 515-2
twizza @ 4/13/2005 9:01:03 AM # Q
I agree. If you liek the m515 and are looking for an update, this one will be more than enough. The T5 will serve those who need to be even more mobile in terms of storage space.

Remeber, the E2 doesnt have Drive mode so you will want the T5 or purchase Card Export if you want this functionality.

antoinerjwright.com

Reply to this comment

Does TE2 NVFS store data in 512-byte blocks?

Gekko @ 4/13/2005 9:03:37 AM # Q

Does TE2 NVFS store data in 512-byte blocks?



RE: Does TE2 NVFS store data in 512-byte blocks?
Frenchie @ 4/13/2005 9:13:49 AM # Q
No, they store the information now into 16 and 32 byte blocks.

The world will end in 2006. Just as it was predicted in the bible along with the release of Microsoft Longhorn.... :p
RE: Does TE2 NVFS store data in 512-byte blocks?
Gekko @ 4/13/2005 9:15:37 AM # Q

Frenchie - how exactly do you know this?



RE: Does TE2 NVFS store data in 512-byte blocks?
Frenchie @ 4/13/2005 9:31:08 AM # Q
I'm just assuming that P1 took the update for the Treo and jammed it into the E2. I'm just guessing, it would make perfect sense if you think about it.

The world will end in 2006. Just as it was predicted in the bible along with the release of Microsoft Longhorn.... :p
RE: Does TE2 NVFS store data in 512-byte blocks?
Gekko @ 4/13/2005 9:38:28 AM # Q

Frenchie - do me a favor. Don't "assume" and "guess" when you attempt to answer my questions - especially so definitively.



RE: Does TE2 NVFS store data in 512-byte blocks?
archie@PIC @ 4/13/2005 10:22:36 AM # Q
The answer is all over the net.

Here is one clipping I happened across:

"The switch to flash memory does mean that there will be slightly less storage space on the Tungsten E2 than on the Tungsten E. Several additional applications that let the E2 play MP3 files, browse the Internet, and view photos are included by default on the E2, accounting for some of the extra space taken up by the files on the device, Doshi said. Users will have access to 26MB of flash memory out of a total of 35MB on the device, as compared to the 28.3MB of RAM available to the user on the Tungsten E.

When PalmOne switched the Treo 650 to flash memory last November, it also slightly reduced the amount of memory available to the user, but that situation was exacerbated by problems with the file system used to store data. That file system, based on the FAT (file allocation table) system used by older versions of Microsoft Corp.'s Windows operating system, stored data in large chunks that were often several times bigger than the file itself.

All data was stored in 512-byte chunks, while a simple calendar entry or contact phone number actually required much less space. This meant that 20MB of data stored on an older RAM-based handheld, for example, would require around 26MB storage capacity on a flash-memory based handheld.

PalmOne has fixed the problem and the Tungsten E2 ships with the ROM update that PalmOne made available shortly after the release of the Treo 650 to correct that issue, Doshi said. Tungsten E users who wish to ditch their Palm PDAs and switch to the new E2 should be able to move RAM-based data to the flash memory with only a very small increase in the amount of storage space required, he said."

Frenchie is correct.

RE: Does TE2 NVFS store data in 512-byte blocks?
Gekko @ 4/13/2005 10:43:13 AM # Q

>The answer is all over the net.

yeah - everywhere but in the PIC article.

Thanks for the info.



Reply to this comment

They must be joking....

Alric @ 4/13/2005 9:09:35 AM # Q
...if they expect people to pay $250 for no WiFi and square screen. If the LIfeDrive is real is going to cost >$500!

RE: They must be joking....
Gekko @ 4/13/2005 9:18:41 AM # Q

$499 per CNET

RE: They must be joking....
InsGuy @ 4/13/2005 10:49:40 AM # Q
...if they expect people to pay $250 for no WiFi and square screen. If the LIfeDrive is real is going to cost >$500!

Couldn't agree more.

All good things...

RE: They must be joking....
benjin @ 4/13/2005 11:37:30 AM # Q
$250...? $10 more gets you the Zodiac 1.

E2: 200mhz 32mb Bluetooth 320x320 screen 1100 battery
Z1: 200mhz 32mb Bluetooth 480x320 screen 1500 battery

E2: Cool memory
Z1: Dual memory slot

E2: Killer bundle
Z1: Comparable bundle, but no Documents to go.

E2: Plastic
Z1: Solid Aluminum

The list goes on, the Zodiac is a serious contender, and I don't even care about games.

RE: They must be joking....
benjin @ 4/13/2005 11:43:35 AM # Q
"Solid Aluminum"

Dang, that sounds bad :-)

RE: They must be joking....
InsGuy @ 4/13/2005 12:30:16 PM # Q
Like I posted a few lines above; and the Z1 is TWO YEARS OLD!!!

All good things...
RE: They must be joking....
twizza @ 4/13/2005 12:32:10 PM # Q
Ok, I see your Z1 but let me raise you on this:

If you are in a store with little to no knowledge of PDAs and see the Z1 adn E2 side by side. The Z1 will win out if the person is concerned with appearance and the form factor. The E2 on the other hand has a nice software bundle and a more recognizable name - which do you think will sell then?

Of course, beacuse you cannot find the Z1 but in a few shops, that makes its visiblity less and therefore mainstream consumer confidence will be lower.

I dont say this to say that the Z1 isnt a better deal, in many respects it is. What it isnt is more visible and accessible to the same clientel palmOne is reaching for with the E2. Hence, better value means nothing but bragging rights against water in a desert.

antoinerjwright.com

RE: They must be joking....
InsGuy @ 4/13/2005 2:19:14 PM # Q
twizza,

I agree 100% with you; my point was that this was, at best, a SMALL, INCREMENTAL, upgrade. I think for $250, more should've been included, that's all.

All good things...

RE: They must be joking....
twizza @ 4/13/2005 2:22:20 PM # Q
InsGuy;
I agree with you, but dont know what more they would be able to include and keep the T5 on the shelf. Right now Drive mode, 160+MB of space and HVGA have the E2 trumped. But this is at least a nice starter model for a ton of folks. I had been clammoring for this feature set with teh original TE; but it sold well despite of it. The E2 can do even better - I've already sold quite a few people here in my office on it and most of them have desk ornament PDAs (aka never charged them).

antoinerjwright.com
RE: They must be joking....
userwaldo @ 4/13/2005 5:25:52 PM # Q
If you look around you can even find the Zodiac 2 for $250 and the Zodiac 1 for $200. Doesn't look good for the TE2.
RE: They must be joking....
ackmondual @ 4/14/2005 1:18:06 AM # Q
Last i checked weeks ago, compUplus had Zod2s for $264 while the Zod1 was around $230 or so.

But yeah, i agree with the "brand name recognition" scheme. Even tho both say Palm on the back, it doesn't say "palm" on the front of the Zods.... which isn't in stores anyways, and ppl don't really take a good look at the back of a handheld.

It's like the Intel vs AMD issue. AMD is still only mainstream with gamers while ppl who are clueless and/or uninformed simply buy all mighty Intel processors.

RE: They must be joking....
viqsi @ 4/15/2005 6:42:02 PM # Q
...or it could be that they are quite well informed, and just have made a choice not to go down that route.

"Sometimes, in other words, I just want to go to Disneyland." --Neal Stephenson

Reply to this comment

Infrared range?

WileyCoyote @ 4/13/2005 9:26:50 AM # Q
Any info on how powerfull the IR is ? Can you use this as a universal controller with a decent range?
RE: Infrared range?
twizza @ 4/13/2005 12:36:02 PM # Q
NOviRemote and other programs would work fine. I havent used one of these in a while, but you really dont need that high powered of a remote if you are within 12ft or so of the screen. Any further than that I had issues with a Zire71.

antoinerjwright.com
Reply to this comment

This is innovation?

PDASuperfreak @ 4/13/2005 9:18:40 AM # Q
I have a Tungsten C. Despite all the screen woes and some issues with the card slot, it has worked well for me. I have waited patiently for the "next" power machine, and it has been a long time. Nothing that has come out since the C is much of an improvement. I don't want a Treo with a smaller screen. I don't want a machine without Wifi. I don't want a machine with half the ram, and half the speed. I want:

Something like the Tungsten C, but...
- without the little keyboard that I don't really use
- with wifi and bluetooth
- with a battery that can handle wifi at decent speed
- with a screen that doesn't stop working every 6 months
- with a card slot that keeps working
- with increased memory
- with increased speed
- with a stylus that stays attached
- with MP3 stereo sound through a typical headphone jack.
- with lots of on-board software

If Palm doesn't come out with something like that soon, I'm leaving Palm for greener pastures.

- Steve


RE: This is innovation?
benjin @ 4/13/2005 10:26:34 AM # Q
Sounds to me like you don't want a Tugsten C at all. ;-)
RE: This is innovation?
Alric @ 4/13/2005 10:31:03 AM # Q
You described my Axim X30.

RE: This is innovation?
InsGuy @ 4/13/2005 10:50:54 AM # Q
He described my Axim X50v. :)

All good things...
RE: This is innovation?
JKingGrim @ 4/13/2005 4:48:50 PM # Q
Sounds to me like he wants a LifeDrive...

RE: This is innovation?
vesther @ 4/13/2005 5:50:41 PM # Q
Well palmOne better not disappoint us with the LifeDrive. Should the LifeDrive upset us, then alas, who knows what would become of palmOne?

Powered by Palm OS since March 2002
RE: This is innovation?
jdfdc7 @ 4/13/2005 9:35:43 PM # Q
lifedrive coming 2010 from Palm

TH55 is what you need
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 4/13/2005 10:33:01 PM # Q
I want:

Something like the Tungsten C, but...
- without the little keyboard that I don't really use
- with wifi and bluetooth
- with a battery that can handle wifi at decent speed
- with a screen that doesn't stop working every 6 months
- with a card slot that keeps working
- with increased memory
- with increased speed
- with a stylus that stays attached
- with MP3 stereo sound through a typical headphone jack.
- with lots of on-board software

The best fit (ignoring processor speed, which actually is not very important) for you needs sounds like the European version of the CLIE TH55. It's probably the best traditional form factor PalmOS PDA that we'll ever see and sells for more now than it did when it was available from Sony.

And for the knee jerk anti-Memory Stick Cultists: memory is memory (but yes, Memory Stick is more expensive than CF or SD).

I have yet to meet anyone who has been disappointed in purchasing their TH55 - and that's probably over 200 people!




------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: This is innovation?
mikecane @ 4/14/2005 9:58:36 AM # Q
>>>I have yet to meet anyone who has been disappointed in purchasing their TH55 - and that's probably over 200 people!

I do indeed believe you've, ahem, "met" 200 people. The question is, was the Board of Health able to track all of them down for shots afterwards?

RE: This is innovation?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 4/14/2005 10:02:33 PM # Q
I do indeed believe you've, ahem, "met" 200 people. The question is, was the Board of Health able to track all of them down for shots afterwards?

Not hard - your mother was the index case.



------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: This is innovation?
mikecane @ 4/15/2005 9:45:13 AM # Q
Yours is no doubt in Potter's Field, having kept the secret of who she was to the very end. Keep dreaming that you have a lineage. With the injections, pills, and now implants, you don't even have an identity. How are the two kids back in Michigan?

Reply to this comment

T3 no longer available.

benjin @ 4/13/2005 10:45:58 AM # Q
I just noticed that the T3 is no longer anywhere to be found on the PalmOne website.

Fairwell old friend.


RE: T3 no longer available.
Frenchie @ 4/13/2005 3:35:33 PM # Q
go back to axim site trolls...

The world will end in 2006. Just as it was predicted in the bible along with the release of Microsoft Longhorn.... :p
RE: T3 no longer available.
I.M Anonymous @ 4/13/2005 5:27:01 PM # Q
^Umm, wrong thread?

Reply to this comment

Beat a dead horse!

jlbunting @ 4/13/2005 11:38:08 AM # Q
This is nice, BUT I am still waiting for OS6! I not giving up my T|3 until I see a device running OS6.

I also know that the T|E2 is not targeted for people like me.
I just thought I would complain about something. :-)


RE: Beat a dead horse!
pmjoe @ 4/13/2005 12:16:41 PM # Q
It is PalmOne that is beating the dead horse. They sold PDAs with essentially the same OS and features 3-4 years ago. I have an almost year old iPaq with Bluetooth, WiFi, fingerprint recognition, real Java development support, etc. on my desk that I am going to start using next week. I am past done waiting while PalmOne continues to put out the same garbage year after year. Even if this E2 had dual Bluetooth/WiFi, there isn't a VPN client for it that'll let me use it on the office network. Why, because they continue to use a hacked to pieces OS 5 that lacks any modern APIs, requires PalmSource licensing to do any serious device level development, and discourages any developer who enjoys working with the latest and greatest systems.

Thank God Apple reclaimed their identity and pushed on to OS X. Excited developers eventually bring along excited users. Under the Palm model Apple would still be cobbling along with a hacked OS 9.[5.4.7] wondering where their zen went. Wither Palm.

RE: Beat a dead horse!
PDASuperfreak @ 4/13/2005 2:21:03 PM # Q
I posted the note above about my dreams for a LifeDrive that goes beyond Tungsten C. Obviously, E2 does not. My question as a non-techie who has been using PDAs since the original Sharp Wizard OZ 570 days, is what you meant by your comments on the board about palm having an inferior operating system. Are you saying that any OS 5.?? is inferior to what I can get with Dell or HP machines that run on Microsoft’s operating system? So even if the “LifeDrive” answers all my prayers but has Garnet, I would be better off with the HP? (That assumes the LifeDrive is more than a rumour.)

- steve


RE: Beat a dead horse!
twizza @ 4/13/2005 2:25:46 PM # Q
Same OS and features to an extent, but you dont have to carry extra power packs so that you can use your new features after an hour ;)

For those who arent techies, the E2 will do more than enough. WinMob devices could be simpler, but more often than not have used the power of the OS to push the mini-computer mantra. Not that its a bad thing, just not what 1.7 million people wanted over the last 17 months (that number is the amount of palmOne Tungsten E devices sold since it was introduced; it was a best seller). WinMobile devices do have a place though. And seeing people [finally] get a clue as to what they want will keep the PalmOS and WinMobile markets pushing each other ahead.

antoinerjwright.com

Reply to this comment

T3 gone.

T. @ 4/13/2005 11:50:03 AM # Q
I don't go on the web site much, but I noticed the T3 is now officially gone from the list of products. I assume this just happened with the TE2 update.

RE: T3 gone.
Frenchie @ 4/13/2005 7:36:38 PM # Q
Still there


http://www.palmone.com/us/products/handhelds/tungsten-t3/index.epl

The world will end in 2006. Just as it was predicted in the bible along with the release of Microsoft Longhorn.... :p

RE: T3 gone.
ackmondual @ 4/14/2005 1:25:14 AM # Q
yeah, but the link to buy it is long gone. It's pointless to advertise something u can't sell... like a mantra or glory of its former past
Reply to this comment

There needs to be a RAZR-like Tungsten model...

gfunkmagic @ 4/13/2005 11:33:26 AM # Q
First of all, let me say the E2 seems like a nice pda, if only slightly overpriced at $250. It makes sense for PalmOne not to tweak too much a model that sold so well (almost 2 million by other press accounts) for it. Thus, I'm sure the E2 will sell well for PalmOne...perhaps one of the few traditional pda models that will considering the onslaught from smartphones, ipods and etc for PIM functionality...

However having said that, the E2 is tremedously boring design-wise. In fact there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of innovation in the pda industry in this regard, especially when you contrast with what's going on in the mobile phone industry. What I would like to see is an introduction of a super slim handheld in the vein of the old Handspring Visor Edge and HP 1900 series. The latter especially sold well as I recall. IMO there is a vacuum right now in the market for this type of device. If some one could integrate the features of the T5+wifi or even the E2 into a super slim RAZR-like form factor, I bet it would sell like hotcakes!

I support http://Tapland.com/

--------------------
GNM

RE: There needs to be a RAZR-like Tungsten model...
kevdo @ 4/13/2005 12:03:14 PM # Q
The Tungsten E **is** the razor model for PalmOne. It is light and is the successor to the Palm V/m500.

I guess you're not enamored with the execution of this product? And for $250 you shouldn't.

-Kevin Crossman, Palm Powered Software Champion

RE: There needs to be a RAZR-like Tungsten model...
twizza @ 4/13/2005 12:29:52 PM # Q
A RAZR like model would be good, but like the RAZR probably be too expensive. Then there is that durability issue of compoents when you get too thin and start skimping on the battery (check it out for the RAZR, it aint nice at all). But I do agree that palmOne would be wise to make the E3/Tx an edger design somewhat like BMW did with the 3/5/7 lines some years ago (and yes I like the edgy 7 and not this new Lexus clone).

antoinerjwright.com
RE: There needs to be a RAZR-like Tungsten model...
gfunkmagic @ 4/13/2005 12:47:15 PM # Q
>>>>The Tungsten E **is** the razor model for PalmOne. It is light and is the successor to the Palm V/m500.

I guess you're not enamored with the execution of this product? And for $250 you shouldn't.

Like I said, I think the E2 will do well. Besides, selling almost 2 million TE's means they excuted something well! What I was referring to was something additional that could be developed. I disagree that the the E2 is supposed to the the 'razr' or thin model from P1. It could thinner and asthetically designed much better...

I support http://Tapland.com/

--------------------
GNM

RE: There needs to be a RAZR-like Tungsten model...
hkklife @ 4/13/2005 2:17:51 PM # Q
A smudging plastic body and a navigator that looks like a melting cough drop isn't quite the hallmark of industrial design that the famed V and m500 series were/are. Also add the Visor Edge to the short list above--IMHO the only revolutionary product Handspring ever produced FF-wise (Yes, that's right, I consider the Treo 600 revolutionary for reasons aside from sterling build quality and/or ergonomics and edgy styling).

Imagine if the Edge formfactor could be resurrected and crammed with at least T|E2 or T3 style specs! The stylus mounting would have to be improved somewhat, of course.

P1's going to have a hard time selling a "bare" (one screen protector aside) T|E2 for $250 that looks SO similar to a T|E. The T|E was or is still being sold as a $200 bundle with a hardcase and a bunch of games. That's a pretty powerful bundle.

Heck, P1 should have just gone with a matte black finish on the E2 just to distinguish it--have you ever seen how sharp looking the black Moto Razr looks!?


RE: There needs to be a RAZR-like Tungsten model...
archie@PIC @ 4/13/2005 5:15:00 PM # Q
> First of all, let me say the E2 seems like a nice pda, if only slightly overpriced at
> $250. It makes sense for PalmOne not to tweak too much a model that sold so
> well (almost 2 million by other press accounts) for it.

OR... they are not tweaking it too much because all developement for the current Palm OS has stopped.

The only thing they have added are things that have already been incorporated in other models (ie. brighter screen, support for wi-fi, built in Bluetooth and new inefficient memory architecture.

As much as I hate to say, we have to bid goodbye to the Palm OS as we know it.

RE: There needs to be a RAZR-like Tungsten model...
gfunkmagic @ 4/14/2005 12:13:56 AM # Q
>>>>>>>>>>The only thing they have added are things that have already been incorporated in other models (ie. brighter screen, support for wi-fi, built in Bluetooth and new inefficient memory architecture.

Yes, these features can all be found in other models, but never at this price point from PalmOne and that is the point! They've tweaked and upgraded the feature-set while relatively maintaining the price point. Besides, in a few months the price of the E2 will drop to $200 anyway...

I support http://Tapland.com/

--------------------
GNM

Reply to this comment

This would have been acceptible 3 years ago :(

lorettaboy @ 4/13/2005 2:13:50 PM # Q
The subject line says it all. Yet another dissapointment from PalmOne. The only people who will buy this are those that have no clue about PDA's. I left the PalmOne camp as soon as they released the T5. What a disgrace. I am now using a PPC with 650 Mhz processor, 128MB of RAM, Wifi and BT.
PalmOne releasing the E2 is like Sony releasing a new 32-bit gaming console. Sad, so very sad.

RE: This would have been acceptible 3 years ago :(
m130fullbutcontent @ 4/13/2005 2:34:35 PM # Q
I think how it sells will answer if it's sad or not. :-)

RE: This would have been acceptible 3 years ago :(
lorettaboy @ 4/13/2005 3:20:57 PM # Q
Even if it sold millions of units it will still be a sad, ancient, piece of PDA crappola. PPC manufacturers must be loving this stuff.
Every time PalmOne announces a new device they send thousands of loyal customers to the dark side.

RE: This would have been acceptible 3 years ago :(
Patrick @ 4/14/2005 2:30:39 AM # Q
I don't see how the TE2 selling millions of units and the PPC manufacturers loving it fit within the same argument.


RE: This would have been acceptable 3 years ago :(
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 4/14/2005 2:38:28 AM # Q
Every time Palm falls futher back on the technology curve, more people switch to PPC. Eventually, a critical mass of PPC users is reached and suddenly EVERYONE dumps PalmOS. Overnight.

If Dell sells a VGA screened, dual expansion, Bluetooth/Wi-Fi, PDA for, say $300 in 2005, how many more people will switch to PPC just to be able to use that hardware? It's already happening. Now in 2005 we've reached the point where PDA OS is actually LESS important (to the average consumer) than the hardware that OS runs on.

See Netscape, WordPerfect, Apple, etc. for for demonstration of how NOT to survive vs. Microsoft.




------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

Reply to this comment

Now how about the Tungsten T5?

vesther @ 4/13/2005 5:48:23 PM # Q
When will the Tungsten T5 get the Efficiency Update it needs?

Or do I have to dwell with this 512K Block curse with this handheld?

Powered by Palm OS since March 2002

RE: Now how about the Tungsten T5?
ackmondual @ 4/14/2005 1:28:52 AM # Q
It's not out yet! I guess they figured that since T5 users have 50MB of user RAM and 160MB from their drive mode... they would be least affected and would be lower in priority unlike those poor folks with only 23MB of user NVFS RAM on the tr650.

And i think u mean 512B curse... NOT 512>K

RE: Now how about the Tungsten T5?
vesther @ 4/17/2005 8:06:53 PM # Q
Oh, sorry. Thanks for correcting me Ackmondual. I meant "512 Byte Curse". Sorry guys.

Powered by Palm OS since March 2002
Reply to this comment

The whine -- is it gone?

tartacus @ 4/13/2005 7:08:22 PM # Q
I'd like to know one thing for certain about this new unit and it's bright new screen -- the annoying whining screen noise that comes from the TE, is it gone?

RE: The whine -- is it gone?
I.M Anonymous @ 4/13/2005 7:30:34 PM # Q
The whine was caused by the digitizer being too close to the screen, and was fixed in later T|Es (Palm will RMA a T|E for a whining screen, or you can fix it yourself as shown at http://discussion.brighthand.com/palmhandhelds/showthread.php?s=&threadid=64429

RE: The whine -- is it gone?
tartacus @ 4/13/2005 8:35:17 PM # Q
Well my question was really about the new TE2 -- has the whining noise been eliminated? With regards to the TE -- looking at recent discussions on PIC and the PalmOne support site suggests that it is still a common problem (on the TE and other models) and P1 still considers it normal operating behavior. I am not interested in pulling apart my TE to fix a built in problem. I have already decided to abandon my TE for a m515 purchased on eBay. I'm just wondering if the TE2 might be an option for me in the future. No noise = maybe, with noise = definitely not.

RE: The whine -- is it gone?
m130fullbutcontent @ 4/13/2005 8:49:08 PM # Q
Tartacus, many threads I've read back your view up. It's a widespread problem according to many user posts, on most colour screened P1 units since 320x320 arrived. I have a fairly recent T3 which whines and T5's have been reported as whining also.

I've read of a number of causes suggested. One example is said to be simply a lack of care/cost cutting in matching certain components. Another example is that it's (sadly) just a characteristic of the type of technology used in making these type of screens.

I hope it's been fixed in this and following models, but I'm not holding my breath.....

RE: The whine -- is it gone?
twizza @ 4/14/2005 11:07:07 PM # Q
In a word: no.

The E2 i have does wine but I had to get in a quiet place and place it next to my ear to hear it. Is there a chance of it getting louder, yup. I did the same thing when I got my T5 and it did get louder. weird part is that I can now tune it out most times. You can call palmONe for a replacement, but for the most part, it is just a facet of the manufacturing. My guess is that WinMob devices suffer this too, I'll get near them soon and get back to ya on that.

antoinerjwright.com

Reply to this comment

The Regression of PalmOne and it's PDAs

ChiA @ 4/13/2005 9:07:04 PM # Q
I used to think the science-fiction story Null-P by William Tenn, where humanity in pursuit of the average regresses to the point where it's enslaved by dogs, to be pure unthinkable fantasy. Disturbingly, PalmOne's recent PDA offerings only go to show that this is disturbingly possible!

Why and what's it got to do with the E2?

Well the E2 is really a T5 where:
a. They've used an eight year old processor (compare 200Mhz XScale with 200MHz StrongArm processor as used in Newton MP2100, 1997 ) in place of the T5's 416Mhz.

b. Stripped out the 160Mb flash drive

c. Put in a shorter screen

in other words a step backward from the T5, which in itself (in most respects) is a step backward from the T3.

It's true the E2 is an improvement on the original E but after considering their similarities, I'd be surprised if the E2 and T5 were not developed at the same time. Had the E2 been launched last year and the T5 now then the T5 would have been seen in an even poorer light than it is now.

With this state of affairs we shall see the T7 programmable calculator from PalmOne in 2006 and the T9 digital wristwatch in 2007 followed by the T11 abacus in 2009.

Needless to say, the LifeDrive may be the dark horse that hopefully proves me and my Null-P fears wrong but after the T5, anything is possible! After all, I don't need to remind regulars of the wait for the near mythical PalmOS 6 handheld.

RE: The Regression of PalmOne and it's PDAs
VampireLestat @ 4/13/2005 10:57:27 PM # Q
I am so sick of people claiming the T5 is bad. Before it was invented people all over the forums where screaming: "Weeeeeeeinnnnnnn we want an M505 kind of unit! weeeinn!!". Now the T5 is here with major upgrades like better sound, better buttons, no slider, 320x480 with launch bar, 416mhz, new power saving -- data protecting rom technology, a thin ergonomic design in a rugged solid nicely colored casing, a stylish cradle, an easy to access stylus, a nice power button, OS 5.4 with many new features, 256 MB of memory, etc.

The T5 is not only NOT a retrograde model or some ****amania "side upgrade", it is the world's best PDA for most people.

I find it outrageous that the obvious is being denied with such negative energy.

RE: The Regression of PalmOne and it's PDAs
VampireLestat @ 4/13/2005 11:05:34 PM # Q
Oh yes, and the TE2 is a very intelligent marketing move by PalmOne. It is a very well thought out and nice upgrade to the TE.

Good job PalmOne.

Will the REAL VampireLestat please stand up?
Gekko @ 4/13/2005 11:09:41 PM # Q

RE: How do we know that the new Treo will run WM?
VampireLestat @ 3/13/2005 7:31:21 PM

I had enough of this. I no longer trust Palm. Here are my concerns:

- Palm Inc. splitting into PalmOne and PalmSource.
- Sony quitting.
- PalmOne focusing on phones and not handhelds.
- Millions of $ invested in OS 6. Two years later, no units use it.
- Senior and brass staff quitting left and right.
- Stocks tumbling.
- Consumer WiFi revolt being ignored by PalmOne. And now some ****amania idea of shipping that silly WiFi SD card that protrudes 1" from the SD slot.
- Cost and production problems. Lack of value. Still no T5 cradle available. And why should I have to pay 70$ CAD for it? I paid 599$ for the T5.
- T5 software compatibility problems. More updates needed, faster.
- Palm rarely offers flash OS upgrades.
- PalmLinux. I don't believe that a small company in such a wild market can pull this off in time.
- The pool of Palm developers is always drying up and moving to PPC.
- PPC programs come out first and then Palm users have to wait for ports, if any at all.
- Microsoft has all kinds of plans to improve WM with version 2005 and beyond. They have 3D gaming programming plug-ins coming, DirectX, etc. Palm has what and is planning what?
- The PalmOne support in India is poor and costly. HP is located in North America, free shipping, speak a good english and resolve things very quickly.
- PalmOne does not believe in Palm OS. The Treo 670 with WM proves this. They want to boost revenue and will try to justify WM as being their offer of giving consumers choice. Fact is, they don't believe Palm OS enough to ensure their prosperity. I don't see Dell and HP making Palm OS devices to ensure their prosperity.
- PalmOne seemingly backstabbed PalmSource by forcing them to develop PalmLinux, then they around and make plans to sell a WM Treo.

Well Mr. Colligan, I agree with you that WM is the future. You go right ahead and make your Treo 670. I will buy the new HP HX2700 and make sure I never ever buy a PalmOne product again. YOU are mainly to blame for Palm OS' undoing and I will not support you with a single penny.

If Palm was smart, they would fire Colligan, halt Treo 670 WM development, reunite Palm Inc., bring Dataviz on as a closer partner to ensure continued and better Microsoft Office integration on Palm OS. Put all resources into OS 6, put more money into making tiny high performance home/multimedia entertainment devices. Make the device the size of the HP 4150, put WiFi, a replaceable battery, add a video coprocessor, an OLED screen, a cradle with every unit, etc.

When consumers walk into the store, the salespeople should be able to easily use this kind of sales pitch: "Get a Palm. It is faster than WM, it is easier, it offers photo like screen quality, you can store your family pictures, a free DivX encoder/player comes with the unit, you can even play high quality MP3s, like on the iPOD. You also get a cradle, WiFi, full Microsoft Office support, and it is tiny in size that it can even fit in a shirt pocket. It is a complete multimedia device on top of being a great organizer!". Right now, salespeople usually push PPCs because everyone knows and trusts the Windows brand name.

Apple was able to survive the Microsoft behemoth by being relentless in their creativity and will to survive. Palm does not currently have that spirit. Making a Treo 670 simply shows that Colligan and company are out to make an easy and quick buck, regardless if it means undermining their core product.

The focus on Treos disappointed me, the turn to PalmLinux worried me and now the move to a Windows Mobile Treo has confirmed my gut feeling that Palm is not around for long. At this point, I will put up with HP and Windows Mobile drawbacks until Microsoft irons out the problems with WM2005 and on. I trust Microsoft. I don’t trust PalmOne/PalmSource/Colligan. I had enough and am moving on.


RE: The Regression of PalmOne and it's PDAs
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 4/13/2005 11:18:31 PM # Q
VampireLestat vs Vamp1reLestat

Who will survive? The fate of pa1mOn3 hangs in the balance.


------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: The Regression of PalmOne and it's PDAs
ChiA @ 4/14/2005 7:21:15 AM # Q
> > The T5 is not only NOT a retrograde model or some ****amania "side upgrade", it is the world's best PDA for most people. < <

The 160 seat Boeing 737 plane may be the best for most airlines but it isn't the largest (500 seat Boeing 747) or fastest (F/A-22) aircraft which Boeing manufactures.

The T5 is PalmOne's top of the line PDA model. It represents the best in craft and skill which PalmOne has to offer, a title previously held by the T3. When a company improves a product, it does so by improving features WITHOUT REMOVING EXISTING FUNCTIONALITY. The T5 is the first time in Palm handheld history that a handheld lacks features which it's predecessor possessed. It's like BMW introducing a new top of the range 7 series which carries more people but leaves out the cruise control and air conditioning.

Because the T5 has left out features which it's predecessors and (more importantly) competitors posesses, it can't be regarded as the best PDA.

RE: The Regression of PalmOne and it's PDAs
lorettaboy @ 4/14/2005 10:16:41 AM # Q
"The T5 is not only NOT a retrograde model or some ****amania "side upgrade", it is the world's best PDA for most people."
VampireLeStat, please come back to your senses! The T5 was an utter dissapointment when it came out. Just go to the original announcement of the T5 release: http://palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=7193
Now count the 100+ people that jumped ship in the hours following the bad news. I was one of these people. Now you can count the 5 or 6 people that were still intent on "upgrading". Yeah, the T5 was a real winner....

RE: The Regression of PalmOne and it's PDAs
twizza @ 4/14/2005 12:13:51 PM # Q
I dont know that I would call the T5 a regression per say. Was it unpolished, sure. But regression, I dont know. When i look at the E2 and T5 side by side, I get that feeling that the T5 was just the first step in making business people devices. I know for a fact that its not looked at as the top of the line device, Treo 650s own that distinction.

I think that for those who had a T3, yes, its not what they would expect. For TE owners who didnt want the T3, the T5 is a nice enough step up. The E2 is a bit nicer as it is not as expensive (albeit missing some features).

I have this thought that the Tungsten line is modeled after the BMW lineup. The E2 reminds me of the refreshed 3, the T5 is a 5 series that hasnt had the M treatment, and then I would think there would be one more (LD maybe?) that is the ultimate yet a style all its own like the 7. In that viewpoint, the T5 was just a new designer/engineer stretching their legs. Maybe its not what people here wanted, but palmOne seems quite happy with those that have moved to it.

Counterpoint: From another perspective, I can see how the T5 is misrepresented as the top of the line PDA. It shuold have the features of the T3 plus a few added tweaks. The launch seemed a bit botched and there are still issues with the builtin programs. Its not a black eye, but palmOne sure does stumble after this and needs devices like the E2 (which is quite solid) to jab back at the perceptions of the long time users.

antoinerjwright.com

RE: The Regression of PalmOne and it's PDAs
lorettaboy @ 4/14/2005 12:26:10 PM # Q
I find it humerous that PalmOne's top of the line device (Treo 650) only has 32MB of RAM. And rumours have it that the new lifedrive will only have 32MB as well. Very dissapointing. And please, spare me the "32MB is more than enough" comments. Go to any Treo forum and you can read scores of posts about how fast 32MB gets used up.

32MB
Gekko @ 4/14/2005 12:53:10 PM # Q

lorettaboy - I agree about the 32MB RAM. I think PalmOne believes that 32MB (minus OS, Heap, Cache, etc.) is enough for PIM data and RAM-resident databases and apps for your average user. The problem is - will your average user spend $500 for a PDA? I have 3,200+ Contacts, 4,200+ Calendar Events, 1,155 Memos (many are 32k+) on my T3 and these keep growing exponentially. I will not buy the LifeDrive if I must shoehorn in all of my present/future PIM data into 32MB (minus OS, Heap, Cache, etc.). I also LIKE running apps and databases from RAM! RAM stored data means FAST ACCESS and be easily backed up via SD Card. RAM is cheap - if you want to do the Hard Drive - that's fine - but at least give me 64-256+ MB of **REAL** RAM! What's the least expensive yet most bang-for-the-buck performance option you can buy for a PC? RAM!!!!!!!!!! Now granted, a PDA is not a PC, but the similiarities remain. 32MB is NOT ENOUGH!


PalmOne - # 1 in the Lowest Common Denominator (LCD) market
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 4/14/2005 10:10:32 PM # Q
The T5 is the first time in Palm handheld history that a handheld lacks features which it's predecessor possessed. It's like BMW introducing a new top of the range 7 series which carries more people but leaves out the cruise control and air conditioning.

Correction: "It's like BMW introducing a new top of the range 7 series which carries more people but leaves out the wheels, engine and gas tank."



------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: The Regression of PalmOne and it's PDAs
viqsi @ 4/15/2005 6:55:09 PM # Q
Rewriting analogies to suit your prejudices does not an intelligent conversation make.

(admittedly, convoluted sentence structure and oversized vocabulary selection doesn't do it either, but at least it's less inflammatory.)

Yoda? Is that you, girl?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 4/16/2005 2:04:22 AM # Q
























.


------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: The Regression of PalmOne and it's PDAs
viqsi @ 4/16/2005 4:17:24 PM # Q
*blink* Who?

Okay, you have the gender correct, but at no point in my life have I been named after anything Star Wars related.

Reply to this comment

This is a good move for Palm

Cheetah @ 4/13/2005 11:13:23 PM # Q
Update the record holding T/E handheld, with features that this middle-market wants...e.g. better battery life, better screen and protected data with a dead battery.

I also differ from the other posters that the $250 price is too high. I expect Palm to bundle some extras or discount the price within 2-5 months of introduction, as they did with the the T5.

I think some people forget that their needs are different then many of Palm's customers.



RE: This is a good move for Palm
benjin @ 4/14/2005 6:37:03 AM # Q
Ya know, you're right, it is hard to believe anyone could be not as excited as I am to VNC control their office of PCs via VNC on a fatty pda with wifi and a battery that lasts.

I betcha 95% of the people that own a TE use it 99% of the time for PIM. The E2 is perfect for that. I also believe that you couldn't get a better PIM machine running windows mobile for the same price. Admittedly, the X30 is comparable, and for $20 more grabs you wifi.

I'm hoping we'll see an E2 price drop as soon as all the old TE's are completely liquidated from store inventories... and only because I think it'll help palmone.

RE: This is a good move for Palm
lorettaboy @ 4/14/2005 10:12:10 AM # Q
"Admittedly, the X30 is comparable, and for $20 more grabs you wifi."
These two PDA's are on completely different levels. You can't compare a basement PDA like the E2 to the X30.

RE: This is a good move for Palm
benjin @ 4/14/2005 11:31:57 AM # Q
"You can't compare a basement PDA like the E2 to the X30."

Oh yes you can.

RE: This is a good move for Palm
Rome @ 4/14/2005 1:48:20 PM # Q
I think it is $30 more for a Axim X30 with wifi and bluebooth. $279 vs. $249.

I have always believe that buying personal tech devices is very much a personal decision. Hardware features are only part of the decision-making process. One needs to look no further than Apple iPod to realize this.

Reply to this comment

Marketing tactics

svrontis @ 4/14/2005 5:54:16 AM # Q
Have you noticed how many favourable reviews were released at the same time as the launch of the TE2?

It kinda looks like p1 got pre-release devices to various people, under NDAs, on condition that they had to publish their reviews on the launch date.

Why? To get some marketing 'momentum' and 'buzz' happening is the most obvious answer.

There may be another reason. It may have been part of a strategy to limit the fall-out from the inevitable critisms by trolls on messageboards like PIC. Look at it this way - when a reporter prepares a review, it would be natural for the reviewer to look at comments made in the internet forums, as a kind of cross-check. Lots of negative comments are bound to influence the reporter, so that a 'good' draft review ends up being less than 'good'.

Ergo, by getting reviews published on the day of the official launch, the reviews should generally be more positive, because they are on-line before competitors get a chance to ramp up their 'fear, uncertainty and doubt' campaigns.

This is outright speculation on my part; perhaps I'm being too Machiavellian (that's not a kind of expresso). However, if I'm right, p1 may have managed to out-smart all the M$ employees who troll here at PIC.

Whoever came up with this trick, he/she deserves a bonus.

RE: Marketing tactics
Surur @ 4/14/2005 7:47:46 AM # Q
However, if I'm right, p1 may have managed to out-smart all the M$ employees who troll here at PIC.

Why pay some-one when there is so many volunteers ?

Surur

RE: Marketing tactics
Surur @ 4/14/2005 9:40:22 AM # Q

Also this ignores the fact that the harshest critics of Pa1m0nes offerings are the long time users, who have been waiting ages for simple features like wifi. All pocketpc users do is compare and contrast.

Surur

RE: Marketing tactics
Rome @ 4/14/2005 1:38:41 PM # Q
"Also this ignores the fact that the harshest critics of Pa1m0nes offerings are the long time users, who have been waiting ages for simple features like wifi. All pocketpc users do is compare and contrast."

What makes you think that wifi is a simple feature. Most common users don't even know how to set up security on their own wifi router.

And if wifi were so demanded by P1 users, how come Tungsten C is not the best selling Palmone PDA, but rather Tungsten E.

RE: Marketing tactics
AdamaDBrown @ 4/14/2005 2:07:44 PM # Q
PalmOne has been issuing pre-release review units for quite awhile, and I don't think they could really care less what people say on PIC. Evidently. (Rolls eyes)

RE: Marketing tactics
tmp12 @ 4/14/2005 2:11:35 PM # Q
Rome wrote:
> What makes you think that wifi is a simple feature.

Using it even on a 4 year old Palm-III-clone might qualify?
Or what's your point?

> Most common users don't even know how to set up security
> on their own wifi router.

What's that to do with *using* WLAN?
Actually, 'users don't even know how to set up security on their own wifi router' nicely increases the number of available hotspots :-)

> And if wifi were so demanded by P1 users, how come Tungsten C
> is not the best selling Palmone PDA, but rather Tungsten E.

For me, the T|Cs Wifi doesn't outdo it's drawbacks.
So I stick to my old stuff and wait...


Gruß
Uwe

RE: Marketing tactics
InsGuy @ 4/14/2005 2:39:26 PM # Q
Rome,

Where did you get the information that 'most common users don't know how to set up their wifi'? Was this published in a magazine? On another forum? Where?

If someone who purchased a ppc unit, or ANY unit for that matter, doesn't have the intelligence to set up their wifi, then their opinion has NO weight as they are too stupid to own a pda.

All good things...

RE: Marketing tactics
Gekko @ 4/14/2005 2:48:38 PM # Q

My message for all of the Palm apologists:

Excuses are like a**holes, everybody's got one.



RE: Marketing tactics
Rome @ 4/14/2005 3:17:23 PM # Q
InsGuy wrote:

"Where did you get the information that 'most common users don't know how to set up their wifi'? Was this published in a magazine? On another forum? Where?"

Read the following story:

http://channels.lockergnome.com/it/archives/20040823_lets_talk_about_wireless_security.phtml

Same story in my neighborhood.

"If someone who purchased a ppc unit, or ANY unit for that matter, doesn't have the intelligence to set up their wifi, then their opinion has NO weight as they are too stupid to own a pda."

But their money is just as good as yours.....good thing that you are not running P1's marketing department.

RE: Marketing tactics
Rome @ 4/14/2005 3:22:43 PM # Q
TMP12 wrote:

"Using it even on a 4 year old Palm-III-clone might qualify?
Or what's your point?"

Does your mother or grandmother use a PDA with wifi? If it were so simply, how come they are not using them.

"What's that to do with *using* WLAN?
Actually, 'users don't even know how to set up security on their own wifi router' nicely increases the number of available hotspots :-)"

None. My point was what wifi setup is not as simple as most tech folks think.

"For me, the T|Cs Wifi doesn't outdo it's drawbacks.
So I stick to my old stuff and wait..."

So wifi is not the killer app for a PDA after all....at least not for you.

RE: Marketing tactics
Surur @ 4/14/2005 3:55:49 PM # Q
Wow! Thats a worrying attitude. Maybe Pa1m0ne went to the P.T. Barnum school of Management. Or maybe they heard the old quote from H.L. Mencken who once observed that nobody ever went bankrupt underestimating the intelligence of the American public.

Maybe that explains those two million T/E sales. Maybe they are right. At least on the "Dark Side" there are devices available which dont only cater to the lowest common denominator.

Surur

RE: Marketing tactics
tmp12 @ 4/15/2005 4:08:56 AM # Q
Rome wrote:
> Does your mother or grandmother use a PDA with wifi?
> If it were so simply, how come they are not using them.

Bad example as both don't use any PalmOne PDA at all.
For my grandmother a Treo would be a nightmare - why is PalmOne selling these? ;-)


> My point was what wifi setup is not as simple
> as most tech folks think.

You are right. Shouldn't prevent PalmOne from integrating it - and eventually they will.

> So wifi is not the killer app for a PDA after all
> ....at least not for you.

Completely wrong. I am using a wifi'ed PDA and I won't buy a new one without. Prior to the 'must-have-Wifi' though are pocketable size, a screen as big as possible and a remarkable battery.


Gruß
Uwe


RE: Marketing tactics
svrontis @ 4/15/2005 5:14:29 AM # Q
> Maybe Pa1m0ne went to the P.T. Barnum school of Management. Or maybe they heard the old quote from H.L. Mencken who once observed that nobody ever went bankrupt underestimating the intelligence of the American public.

Or maybe p1 got tired of being trashed by trolls who are paid to spread 'fear uncertainty and doubt' about p1's products.

RE: Marketing tactics
pmjoe @ 4/15/2005 8:07:01 AM # Q
> Most common users don't even know how to set up security on their own wifi router.

Most common users don't know how to set up security on their PC or PDA, for Bluetooth or any other computing device. Singling out WiFi and using that as an excuse for not including features that have been on competitors' devices for years is ridiculous.

Reply to this comment

TE sold well because it was $199

Gekko @ 4/14/2005 9:27:54 AM # Q

We'll see if this 2 year old warmed-up 1 1/2 year old pancake can sell at $250. Don't confuse the lure of a cheap-looking price with a great product.



RE: TE sold well because it was $199
twizza @ 4/14/2005 9:37:09 AM # Q
I agree with you there Gekko. I think there is enuogh in terms of new features that too many people wont be up in arms abuot it. Heared already one place is selling them for $220. Like with the T5, palmOne will get what they can early and then stablize it lower if need be.

antoinerjwright.com
RE: TE sold well because it was $199
svrontis @ 4/15/2005 12:25:38 AM # Q
> We'll see if this 2 year old warmed-up 1 1/2 year old pancake can sell at $250. Don't confuse the lure of a cheap-looking price with a great product.

Don't worry, HP and Dell will probably get around to copying the TE2 in about 12 months. If so, then you will be able to praise a 3 year old warmed-up pancake for $350.

OTH, just think of all the sales p1 will steal from HP and Dell in the meantime.

Reply to this comment

Ratio screen/device area

tmp12 @ 4/14/2005 2:25:33 PM # Q
The TE2 is not meant for me.
Overall it looks nice to me, though.
What scares me nevertheless is this ancient Graffiti area.
Strange thing, to see a supposedly modern PDA where the usable (information presenting) screen is only half of the device's area.
Argh. Nostalgia?


Gruß
Uwe

Reply to this comment

NVFS Strikes Again

Gekko @ 4/14/2005 9:34:22 PM # Q

"Although the company ramped up the (TE2) device with a 200MHz Intel XScale processor, we experienced small but noticeable delays when switching screens and programs."

http://reviews.cnet.com/PalmOne_Tungsten_E2/4505-3127_7-31326434.html?tag=cnetfd.sd



RE: NVFS Strikes Again
twizza @ 4/14/2005 11:12:08 PM # Q
Seriously, I dont know what they were using, but I dont have that issue. I am slowely getting the E2 into daily duty as I am beginning to test programs and can admit that it isnt as fast as the TE always, but no where near being enough to be called slow. walking with it right beside the T5 it is blazing in speed.

antoinerjwright.com
RE: NVFS Strikes Again
Gekko @ 4/14/2005 11:15:23 PM # Q

Twizza - are you saying the T5 is sluggish compared to the TE2?



RE: NVFS Strikes Again
Gekko @ 4/14/2005 11:17:43 PM # Q

p.s. where are our answers on Igor's G1 patch, etc.?

RE: NVFS Strikes Again
E Ben G @ 4/14/2005 11:21:39 PM # Q
"Twizza - are you saying the T5 is sluggish compared to the TE2?" - Gekko

Excellent question.

And if so, why???

RE: NVFS Strikes Again
twizza @ 4/15/2005 9:14:24 AM # Q
Yes the T5 is sluggish in compairson when running one app, but not when running more than one app (i.e. music i teh background while playing a game from RAM). My guess is that the RAM optimizations present the the SPrint Treo 650 patch are applied. There is some evidence of it when compairing the size of applications over the T5 and E2. But I am not sure as I do not know what files to look for that would indicate that - no Sprint Treo 650 in my library unless someone wants to "donate" :)

I'll look at the G1 patch this weekend. I have a nice sized report that has to be done by Monday so I am going to be swamped. The good news is that many apps already updated for teh T5 do work just fine on the E2. I have also tried Card Export (v. 2.00.250) and it works fine as well. I have a thread over in the Tungsten forum at 1src that is detailing the programs that I am going thru. I am starting with what I have and working my way out to what people have been asking for. So if you ask, I'll get there.

antoinerjwright.com

RE: NVFS Strikes Again
twizza @ 4/15/2005 9:18:20 AM # Q
Oh yea, I didnt notice the delays with the built in apps, but when I started to add apps I began to see the delays that CNet displays. It seems that the larger the program, the more noticeable the lag. This would definitley confirm some sort of transfer to RAM going on.

If anyone knows a program that will show me what the size of the heap RAM is, please recommend so that I can confirm that.

antoinerjwright.com

Reply to this comment

TE2 is fatter than TE

bdholmes @ 4/15/2005 12:36:52 PM # Q
Tungsten E thickness: 0.5"
Tungsten E2 thickness: 0.59"

I see Palm is continuing its policy of making bigger and bigger PDAs. Funny that they didn't draw attention to this in the press release. While most other technology miniaturises, Palm's PDAs grow. Perhaps in a few years time we'll be back to using Palm Pilot size devices again. Oh well, another one I won't be upgrading to.

Keep up the good work Palm!

Brendan
Palm VX

RE: TE2 is fatter than TE
twizza @ 4/15/2005 12:54:35 PM # Q
It most likley needs the space to accomidate the processor and BT radio. Also, there isnt as much wine on this as on the T5 and TE, so that too may be a product of the extra thickness.

But really fam, if you are going to complain about .09in of additional thickness, then there are a few mountains on your toe nail that I should warn you about. :)

antoinerjwright.com

RE: TE2 is fatter than TE
Surur @ 4/15/2005 1:03:55 PM # Q
twizza wrote
It most likley needs the space to accomidate the processor and BT radio.

0.59"=15mm.

Mmm if BT radio and 200Mhz processor makes it thicker, I wonder how thick a pocketpc with dual slots, wifi, VGA screen and 625 Mhz processor must be. It would have to be a brick like the Tungsten X. Or maybe its also 15mm.

The above if just one of the very many poor excuses I read from palm apologists.

http://www.mobile-review.com/pda/review/vga-comparing-en.shtml

Surur

RE: TE2 is fatter than TE
twizza @ 4/15/2005 1:04:03 PM # Q
I see in your sig that you use a Vx. After the m500, there hasnt been a move to make thin PDAs but ones that feel good in the hand without being too think. Check out the current TE and E2. Really, that arent as fat as you might think.

antoinerjwright.com
RE: TE2 is fatter than TE
twizza @ 4/15/2005 3:07:55 PM # Q
There is space considerations needed to be taken. Even still, the Vx/m500 were the thinest devices to date. Everything else has needed more space for one thing or another. 15mm you say...i need to get a ruler. The E2 feels thicker than the T5 even though the measurements say otherwise. Me dunno. My coworker has a Vx and it actually feels too thin after using the TE/E2/T5 devices.

antoinerjwright.com
RE: TE2 is fatter than TE
svrontis @ 4/15/2005 5:11:21 PM # Q
> Mmm if BT radio and 200Mhz processor makes it thicker, I wonder how thick a pocketpc with dual slots, wifi, VGA screen and 625 Mhz processor must be.

You neglected to mention that, even without the extended battery, the Loox 720 is 28% heavier and 144% more expensive than the TE2. That is an aweful lot of 'overhead' for an electronic organiser (and the Loox is a poor-excuse-for an organiser, at that).

If your reference to 'palm apologists' is intended to be insulting, then you have failed again. Remember this is a forum run by Palm enthusiasts for Palm enthusiasts. (If that bothers you, then why don't you go over to the firstloox site where you can enjoy reading all those posts from people complaining about their devices?)

RE: TE2 is fatter than TE
Surur @ 4/15/2005 5:32:53 PM # Q
You cant be serious. If it has a smaller battery it should be thinner, not thicker. If its less capable, it should be smaller.

Lets look at specs.

  Height Width Depth Weight Specs
Tungsten E2 4.5 3.1 .59 4.7 200Mhz processor, Bluetooth, 32Mb Ram, non-removable battery
HP 4150 4.47 2.78 .5 4.67 400Mhz processor, WIFI AND Bluetooth 64Mb Ram, 1000mah battery

Lets face it, two year old technology wipes the floor with this "new" device.

Surur

HP 4150 smaller and better specd
Surur @ 4/15/2005 6:00:15 PM # Q



RE: TE2 is fatter than TE
bdholmes @ 4/15/2005 6:56:39 PM # Q
"Perhaps in a few years time we'll be back to using Palm Pilot size devices again."

I need only wait weeks not years. According to this site's headline, the Tungsten X will be as thick as two Tungsten T5s. The regression is complete. Whatever happened to that company that used to make excellent personal organisers?

RE: TE2 is fatter than TE
svrontis @ 4/15/2005 10:35:27 PM # Q
You neglected to mention that the iPAQ 4150/4155 was selling for a price 80% above that of the TE2, and that it was so successul that the whole line was discontinued.

Reply to this comment

Svrontis, I'm not a troll, just a frustrated Palm OS User...

ChiA @ 4/16/2005 7:55:30 PM # Q
...who'd like to have a new PalmOS handheld with a voice recording feature. What PalmOS device will you sell me?

The T3 has been discontinued and I don't want anything secondhand.
I've settled for a Treo 650 but my mobile carrier in the UK (Orange) haven't released yet; it's been on their website for the past month as 'coming soon', whatever soon means to them.

Worse still, there is NO MENTION WHATSOVER of the Treo650 on PalmOne's UK website.

There's a company in the UK that sells a Treo650 without contract for 514 British pounds (970 US Dollars) and I'd still have to buy third party software in order to get the voice recording function.

This is the only way I can get a new PalmOS handheld with voice recording. At that price it may be cheaper for me to get PocketPC versions of my favourite Palm apps and buy a PocketPC instead, much to my own disdain as I'm not keen on PocketPC.

Ironically, when I bought a Newton I wasn't keen on the Palm OS and I still view Newton OS as being the superior of the two (not to mention I lost the voice recorder). Necessity forced the switch and I'm concerned that for me, personally, history may repeat itself.

RE: Svrontis, I'm not a troll, just a frustrated Palm OS Use
svrontis @ 4/16/2005 9:55:08 PM # Q
ChiA, I apologise - I didn't mean to call you a troll. If you are a palmpilot user who just wants to see p1 improve their products, then all power to you.

There are, however, some people you have made hundreds of posts here at PIC, practically all of which are critical of p1. The TE2 for instance doesn't have enough features for them (even though it is supposed to be a bottom-of-the-range unit), the T5 is said to be a 'downgrade' from the T5 (even though it has caused a revolution in palmpilot design with its capacious memory and improved battery life), etc. They have even got to the stage where they are tipping buckets of bile on the rumoured TX, which has not even been launched (for goodness sake). Nothing p1 does seems to be good enough for these people. There are even people who say they own devices produced by competitors and they delight in telling us (in a misleading way) how superior p1's rivals are. There are others who demand that p1's management should be fired for having the temerity to profitable products. You can only wonder why it is these people keep coming here day after day.

As a consumer, you have the right to buy anything you wish - it's a free country. But that cuts both ways - because it's a free country, p1 has a right to produce whatever devices it chooses.

If you want to make suggestions as to how p1 can design better products, then go for it. That's what PIC is all about (and I would be interested to see what you have to say). If p1 has any sense, they will take your requests into account. But I ask you to bear in mind that designing a palmpilot involves thousands of compromises - it demands a balance of features, form factor and price - it is impossible to have everything.

On the other hand, if you want to make the same old boring complaints (eg, product X is garbage because it doesn't have feature Y), then please do so at some other forum (preferably a WinCE/PPC/WinMob/whatever messageboard).

I appreciate that I am just a 'lone voice' around here. If you disagree, then you can take comfort in the fact that you are in the majority, some of which are blatant trolls.

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