Comments on: Gartner Reports Strong Sales for the Wireless PDA Industry

Wireless PDA:

Did PalmOne never see this coming? Only one unit with built-in WiFi in the past 3 years! Bewildering.

How hard is it to take the same radio and use it across the brand in the other devices? The average person looks at the battle as PPC vs Palm, even tho neither makes hardware. Palm has looked like a joke with Sony weaned out and PalmOne offer substandard hardware vs Dell, HP & Toshiba. To the average person it looks like WinMob is powerful and Palm is weak. Thus the figures and the marketshare.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

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Foo Fighter @ 5/5/2005 3:27:11 PM

It ain't called Pocket PC no mo, yo. It be Windows Mobile from here on out. Word!
/QUOTE

Not gonna happen. Not as long as people still call Palm OS devices Palm Pilots and PCs IBM Compatibles. Heck, look on the system requirements of any PC game that came out in the last 10 years or so and they still say "IBM PC or 100% Compatible"

[signature0]the secret to enjoying your job is to have a hobby that's even worse[/signature0]
[signature1]My PDAs: Visor --> Visor Neo (blue) --> Zire 71 --> Tungsten T3[/signature1]

Microsoft Windows Mobile is the umbrella term used to cover the their three mobile platforms - Pocket PC, Pocket PC Phone Edition and Smartphone. Magneto is the next version of Windows Mobile - coming quite soon. The Pocket PC, Phone Edition and Smartphone names will persist. Anyone who thinks these names are going away anytime soon is mistaken.

Yes, but not that bad as someone tries to tell. Something needs to be done for sure. PalmOS 5 is OK for TE2, but absolutely not good for device like LifeDrive. PalmSource is the key, not palmone I think. Where is Linux Palm?

PS. HTC is the king, actually=) This war is inside one company. They make Treos and HP's and Loox, Imates and Dells.

That's not one millon Treo sales. That's one million sales total for PalmOne. In other words, 385,000 Treos in the first quarter.

HTC is doing wonderfully. Its revenue increased by 66% and its profit by 99% last year. Its sure its on the back of win CE market growth.

http://www.msmobiles.com/news.php/3550.html

Surur

Palm isn't doing amazingly well at the moment. However, in the smartphone stakes, Microsoft hasn't exactly got plain sailing either - everyone seems to have overlooked Symbian. Nokia is a very powerful company and with increasingly sophisticated Series 60 phones, the every popular Nokia Communicator line and Sony Ericsson UIQ series, I think even Microsoft is going to have trouble with this one, especially given the number of programming languages Symbian supports (OPL, C++, Java) and of course its also attractive to developers who don't like the Microsoft OS and way of working...

Sorry, I did mean purely in PDA terms, rather than as an overall company. But if you want to put sales of Symbian Smartphones head to head with Microsoft Smartphones, it will show that Symbian at present has a colossal advantage, although it does depend on how you define a Smartphone.

Perhaps too steeped in Star Wars hype, someone is. ;)

Did not one of the PalmOne big boys just recently state that the company employees 80% software engineers and 20% hardware? Don't expect to many heavy hitters in the design area if this is true.

I know Palm OS is customizeable, but maybe this is why the glut of software folks at the supposed "hardware company"?

It seems to me that P1 could have copied the TC & T3 hardware designs and features while implementing incremental upgrades along the way to stay technically competitive. Why do so much adjusting for the Z72 & T5 when using nearly identical flagship hardware on second teir devices would suffice without re-inventing the wheel each time.

P1 is putting less features on their devices and having to work harder to do it. I know a 400mhz PXA255 is not as efficient as a 416 PXA270, but hardly anyone would notice the difference if the T5 had simply been a T3 refresh with NVFS and refreshed apps. In fact, we would have all been relatively happy I think. Why do all the internal and external redesigns at huge expense, and leave out all the previous feautures which took huge investments to develop?

Surely, P1 can't be saving that much on the parts for vibra-alarms, LED and to leave the function for tapping the center of the 5-way to turn on the device to see the date/time for 2 seconds. That last one just baffles me and makes me wonder if these guys are not about to just collapse.

PS - I know the T5 is a lot cheaper to mftr and service than the more complex T3 tho.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

IDC and Gartner both have strange ways of defining what's a handheld versus what's a smartphone. I much prefer Canalys' numbers, which include everything: unconnected, WiFi/BT, smartphones, and mobile communicators like the Blackberries. This provides a much more accurate picture in terms of platforms, though I don't think it's broken down by what categories are selling. Still, that's not much of a mystery--the only smartphone selling in any large quantity is the Treo, at ~350k units per quarter, and most of the mobile communicators are either RIM or PPC.

It's all a question of perception really. Personally I don't believe mobile devices with built-in cellular radios should be included with PDA sales, or vice versa. A cellular equipped PDA is a Smartphone. I don't care if the Treo 650 runs the same OS as my T5...they're not in the same category. One is a phone...the other is an organizer. Why Gartner thinks that Blackberry devices should be lumped in with Tungstens and Axims is beyond me. This study is based on a flawed definition of what gets counted and what does not.

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Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com

PalmOne couldn't switch entirely without losing a huge chunk of their market. They utterly dominate the under-$200 segment, partly because it's a place PocketPCs can't go due to the cost of good color screens. Not that I think they would completely switch, but I'm just saying.

Surur @ 5/5/2005 5:06:17 PM

Maybe its because the OS is more demanding that the Windows Mobile hardware is better. Either way sticking with Palm OS means going down with a sinking ship. The other windows mobile companies are doing well having a small slice of a large and ever growing pie. If P1 switched to windows mobile there is every chance they might start growing market share vs slowly fading away.

Surur

No, PPC hardware is better simply because pa1mOne decided to sell cheaper, more profitable hardware, just as Sony decided to sell more expensive (but better built) hardware. Conscious marketing decision + product placement. Sticking with PalmOS is in NO way "going down with a sinking ship". PalmOS still is capable of doing what 99+ % of people need/want a PDA OS to do. It's all in the details. Tapwave, Sony, Handspring and HandEra have all shown in the past few years precisely how flexible PalmOS can be if a little effort is put into it. Sorry, Bubba, but the OS has a LOT more life left in it. We just need a few companies like Sony/Sony Ericsson, Samsung, Apple, Motorola, etc. to create the kind of high quality hardware that PalmOS deserves. Another iPod or Vx to create some excitement. And pa1mOne will be "swinging both ways" for a while, hoping it will increase their chances of getting lucky. Not a bad strategy, since it involves no risk (Sprint already committing for PPC Treo 700s) and no effort (pick up the phone, call HTC and ask them to retool the Treo 650 to work with PPC). Still milking Handspring's design after all this time... How sad. And remember, pa1mOne is now the ONLY player in the PalmOS market. Everyone else is gone. As Apple has learned over the years, you can still do quite well even if you become a "fringe" OS - as long as you don't get too ambitious.

Foo Fighter @ 5/5/2005 5:54:17 PM

It's all a question of perception really. Personally I don't believe mobile devices with built-in cellular radios should be included with PDA sales, or vice versa. A cellular equipped PDA is a Smartphone. I don't care if the Treo 650 runs the same OS as my T5...they're not in the same category. One is a phone...the other is an organizer. Why Gartner thinks that Blackberry devices should be lumped in with Tungstens and Axims is beyond me. This study is based on a flawed definition of what gets counted and what does not.

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Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com

Exactly. The definitions of the categories have always been suspect, but they allow for spinning of stats to better suit certain clients. Remember, these "research" firms have to make a buck somehow - and it's not from providing Palminfocenter readers with free market data.

lorettaboy @ 5/5/2005 8:24:19 PM

Man, I just can't imagine PalmOne making products that run on the Windows Mobile OS. It just wouldn't be right if you know what I mean? To me, it would be like Apple dropping the mac os and shipping their systems with Windows XP.

If Steve Jobs felt he could make a buck by selling Apple hardware running XP, he'd do it in a second. And probably sell his own mother while he's at it if the price was good. But XP Apples (expialidocious) would be so anathema to the Apple Cultists that the fallout and resulting damage to the Mac Mystique wouldn't justify the extra sales to fashionistas looking for Apple Style with XP universality. Palm, on the other hand, either thinks PalmOS can withstand the damage to its credibility that PPC Treos will inflict or else sees PalmOS as being potentially less capable than PPC/Windows Mobile. In any event, with no competition in the PalmOS PDA sector, pa1mOne can do whatever the he11 they feel like doing - if you want a new PalmOS PDA, who else can you get one from these days? Monopolies are A Bad Thing.

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Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

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Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
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Say hello to my little friend...

The Treo is STILL the best smartphone design available, so it makes sense to release a version with PPC on it. But putting PPC on any other pa1mOne hardware would be ridiculous, since besides the Treo, pa1mOne is selling pure sh1t. Pure sh1t.

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Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

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Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

Since when have Gartner reports ever been taken seriously? They were saying Palm was dead back when the Palm V was all the rage.

Bush declares war over in Iraq - May 2003

But the opposition is not eliminated

Sorry, kinda got lost on a political side track there of which I have no informed opinion - Gekko I'll take your word for it...

Back to the point - Palm is not dead. The stats and predictions of doom on this site are not new. Why do I feel like a troll posting positive comments about Palm on this site? There was a time when PPC advocates would be shouted down. I'm not sure PPC has squashed Palm in the market place but it sure seems to have squashed Palm on this site.

Gartner's definition seems to require that the machine be in a phone form-factor and be designed foremost for that use in order to be a smartphone, otherwise it's a PDA.

Devices such as the Treo 650 and BlackBerry 7100 are clearly voice first, data second devices. Their designers intended them to be operated with one hand. Very few people would carry either of these AND a separate phone. They are smartphones, intended to combine PDA and phone functions.

The iPAQ 6315 and most BlackBerries are clearly data-first, voice second devices. You generally need two hands to operate them. In fact, most BlackBerry users still use a cellphone.

Of course, in any market segmentation, there are going to be devices such as the Treo and Nokia 9300 that are close to the dividing line.

Throwing everything with a cellular radio into one group would be stupid. Look at the Tungsten W or some of the older BlackBerries - did anyone ever think those were phones?