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Comments on: palmOne Renews Palm OS License From PalmSource

PalmSource and palmOne today announced that palmOne has renewed its license of the Palm operating system. As part of this new agreement, palmOne can continue to develop and market smartphones and other mobile devices based on the industry leading Palm OS through 2009.
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New names for Palm OS and PalmSource?

Sam H @ 5/24/2005 11:43:04 AM # Q
PalmSource will also adopt a new brand identity during this period.

Interesting...

RE: New names for Palm OS and PalmSource?
wilco @ 5/24/2005 11:49:02 AM # Q
Be Mobile? Hey! Jean Louis Gasse (formerly of Apple and Be, Inc.) is now chairman of PalmSource, so resurrecting an old trademark is a possibility, that is if the original Be, Inc. is still around to sell the trademark to them.

Whatever, hopefully they sound better than Garnet and Cobalt...

But I have a feeling that PalmSource is about to under a major change in its strategy from selling OS to selling an extra platform layer, so that you could have Palm on Linux, Palm on Cobalt, Palm on Windows CE, Palm on Mac OSX, Palm on Symbian, and Palm on whatever...

RE: New names for Palm OS and PalmSource?
Sam H @ 5/24/2005 11:58:31 AM # Q
Palm on Cobalt, Palm on Windows CE, Palm on Mac OSX, Palm on Symbian...

Nah.

Cobalt = Dead in the water

Windows CE = Resource hog (among other things)

OS X = Not a mobile device OS

Symbian = Smartphones only

RE: New names for Palm OS and PalmSource?
mikecane @ 5/24/2005 1:04:13 PM # Q
Trolltech QTopia, Linux for PDAs -- NOW!

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Suggested new names

mikecane @ 5/24/2005 12:53:40 PM # Q
Be Dead

Be Gone

-- essentially, that's it.

This is all legalese. PalmSource is for all intents and purposes DEAD.

RE: Suggested new names
jkirvin @ 5/24/2005 12:56:22 PM # Q
And suddenly, not getting the job back in March doesn't seem so bad...

RE: Suggested new names
mikecane @ 5/24/2005 1:01:30 PM # Q
Hell, Jeff, I should have seen that as an omen right there.

Besides, you would have been the ONLY person who, after leaving that company, would have written the TRUTH about it.

They couldn't have that!

It's a good thing for you too: the rest of your life would have been taken up giving depositions for all of the forthcoming licensee and investor lawsuits!

I'm sure Gassee has regularly been parking his money in the Caymans -- and then to Switzerland. Cherchez those Euros, Jean!!

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The Chinese Factor

mikecane @ 5/24/2005 12:56:13 PM # Q
Beijing, China --

The Happy Lucky Landfill Company (China), LLC today announced the total acquisition of the company formerly known as PalmSource, Inc.

In keeping with the brand that has gained notoriety in China since its exclusive contract with palmOne, Inc. made it very very rich through an exclusive contract for the disposal of the failed Tungsten T5 line of pocket disorganizers, the new company will heretofore be known as The Happy Lucky Operating System Company (China), LLC.

Please note that this statement contains forward-looking statements, and since we are Chinese and intend to rule the rest of you dogs within twenty years, make your time.



RE: The Chinese Factor
Masamune @ 5/24/2005 3:25:48 PM # Q
"All your OSes, are belong to us" ?

I think I hear Symbian calling...

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PSource now claims FORTY-FIVE licensees!

mikecane @ 5/24/2005 4:30:42 PM # Q
>>>More than 45 companies worldwide have licenses to PalmSource software

http://tinyurl.com/d6yx4

Which are the Infamous Eleven?

RE: PSource now claims FORTY-FIVE licensees!
Surur @ 5/24/2005 4:45:05 PM # Q
"More than 45 companies worldwide have licenses to PalmSource software, including Fossil, Garmin, GSPDA, Kyocera, Lenovo, palmOne, Samsung, Sony, and Symbol Technologies."

Surur

RE: PSource now claims FORTY-FIVE licensees!
mikecane @ 5/24/2005 5:18:37 PM # Q
Ah, my self-flagellation streak comes out. surur, you'll like this one:

>>>Nagel went on to share his thoughts about the fragmented Microsoft Windows Smartphone approach, "Microsoft says it has more than 25 licensees [for its Windows Mobile software] but I challenge anyone to name more than five. Most of them will never bring out products," he said. "Itís crazy to take a small market and slice it 25 ways. Nobody makes any money."

http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=6117

RE: PSource now claims FORTY-FIVE licensees!
Surur @ 5/24/2005 6:19:06 PM # Q

Ah Mike, this is a big part why I come to this web site. Brighthand and 1src is just plain boring. Its wonderfully entertaining here!

Surur

RE: PSource now claims FORTY-FIVE licensees!
mikecane @ 5/24/2005 6:22:24 PM # Q
We aim to please.

I, however, aim for the head.

RE: PSource now claims FORTY-FIVE licensees!
rsc1000 @ 5/24/2005 9:28:20 PM # Q
>>Fossil, Garmin

Well - I am not arguing with your point, but Garmin does still license Palm OS and fairly recently re;eased a new version of the iQue 3600 (the 3600a is the 'aviation version' of the 3600) released after the Win Mobile version. So it is not correct to say they do not license the OS. But you are right - where are the major licensees?

RE: PSource now claims FORTY-FIVE licensees!
chzhd @ 5/24/2005 9:37:53 PM # Q
I can remember when PIC was an interesting site to visit with intelligent postings from informed Palm users. It is a shame to see what it has become. For the sake of everyone visiting this site, if you don't have anything remotely interesting to post, please don't. If Palm is dead in the water, the OS is obsolete and Palm users are idiots for buying PalmOne devices, why do you even bother?

PalmSource Licensess at 12
borgiaX @ 5/24/2005 11:37:49 PM # Q
PalmSource dosnt have 45 licensees, its website dosnt claim that.
The 45 claim seems to be a misunderstanding.


Flagrans Veritatis Studio

RE: PSource now claims FORTY-FIVE licensees!
just_little_me @ 5/25/2005 2:32:57 AM # Q
It says "Palmsource software", not "Palm OS"...


JLM.

RE: PSource now claims FORTY-FIVE licensees!
mikecane @ 5/25/2005 2:41:46 PM # Q
>>>borgiaX @ 5/24/2005 11:37:49 PM

>>>PalmSource dosnt have 45 licensees, its website dosnt claim that.
>>>The 45 claim seems to be a misunderstanding.

Are you an idiot (as if you could even answer *that* question)? It comes from their own damned press release!

RE: PSource now claims FORTY-FIVE licensees!
ackmondual @ 5/27/2005 3:28:33 PM # Q
^^

I was wondering why you didn't include other licensees like Handspring.... and all those other older, more obscure ones that die relatively quickly

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P1 sees OS as profit - not their hardware

MleB @ 5/25/2005 8:30:19 AM # Q
Once the de facto PDA for business people, students and home users alike, Palm's market share has slipped precipitiously.

Moreover, if P1's recent PDA offerings (and the Company's increasingly dreadful Support - both to retailers and users) are anything to go by, it would seem that the Company would really rather prefer to give up on the PDA market entirely and simply be a provider of smartphones to the wireless industry - distancing themselves even further from the user of their product.

Hardly surprising therefore that they want unfettered access to the OS. Providing they can stop screwing around with it and make it stable again, that, with wireless, may be their way 'out of the darkness'.

RE: P1 sees OS as profit - not their hardware
Surur @ 5/25/2005 9:06:19 AM # Q

There is nothing stopping Palm from running their user interface on top of Win CE (not pocketpc or windows mobile), and styletap has shown that they wont have to lose compatibility with their old software either.

Just because they are running on win ce does not mean they will be competing with Dell. Whats under the hood does not have to be visible to the end user, except for the greater stability of new software, which would also be able to multi-task. The old OS is a millstone. The UI can easily be copied to run on top of any OS.

Surur

RE: P1 sees OS as profit - not their hardware
Dr Opinion @ 5/25/2005 12:16:40 PM # Q
That's simply dumb. Why add additional cost just to add a buggy WinCE layer? The only reason PalmOne hasn't used Cobalt yet is because they don't want to pay the higher license cost (as has been suggested, maybe they can get the assets on the cheap later), yet you're proposing a massive license cost to microsuck?

"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience or imagination."
RE: P1 sees OS as profit - not their hardware
Surur @ 5/25/2005 1:49:07 PM # Q

MS licenses are quite cheap actually. The OS is also quite stable and proven in the market, vs the POS which has just become buggier with time.

Surur

RE: P1 sees OS as profit - not their hardware
AdamaDBrown @ 5/25/2005 2:13:52 PM # Q
Licensing cost has absolutely nothing to do with the lack of Cobalt devices.

RE: P1 sees OS as profit - not their hardware
mikecane @ 5/25/2005 2:43:38 PM # Q
>>>he OS is also quite stable and proven in the market

*cough* *cough* *gag!*

RE: P1 sees OS as profit - not their hardware
Surur @ 5/25/2005 2:46:30 PM # Q
It is!! I promise!! :)

I certainly don't soft-reset 6-9 times per day.

Surur

RE: P1 sees OS as profit - not their hardware
Wollombi @ 5/25/2005 4:19:25 PM # Q
I don't even reset 6-9 times in any given quarter (that's 3 months).

_________________
Sean

There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.

RE: P1 sees OS as profit - not their hardware
Surur @ 5/25/2005 4:24:09 PM # Q

Maybe you're running an Old PalmTM

Surur

RE: P1 sees OS as profit - not their hardware
svrontis @ 5/25/2005 11:23:34 PM # Q
No, he's running away from WinCE/PPC/WinMob/whatever - the only sensible thing to do really.

RE: P1 sees OS as profit - not their hardware
cbowers @ 5/27/2005 6:24:38 PM # Q
"... in any given quarter (that's 3 months)."

But only because we take your coins at par...

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Where is Mace NOW?

mikecane @ 5/25/2005 4:44:06 PM # Q
QUOTING:

http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=2966

Do you want to drop any hints on future licensees?

We've said in public that we're working on Asia. Beyond that I'd end up screwing up the negotiations if I dropped any specific hints.

I don't want to set the expectation that all of a sudden there are going to be 15 Palm OS licensees because we don't want to flood the market with so many licensees that no one can make money. It would be easy to really screw up this market by doing too much licencing too fast. On the other hand, there is room for more licensees and you'll see us go after some folks aggressively. There is more to come.

==============

Note to Mace: You DO NOT get to count palmOne/Palm! That should make things easier...

RE: Where is Mace NOW?
Gekko @ 5/25/2005 4:50:53 PM # Q

Here he is -

-----

What we'll do

>PalmSource has not said what it will do after the transition period is over.

We'll have a new name.

There was a huge amount of confusion about what the Palm name meant -- hardware devices, software, etc. We frequently ran into customers and even reporters who couldn't keep track of the difference between PalmSource and palmOne.

Benjamin Franklin once said something to the effect of: when you realize you have made a mistake, the worst thing you can do is keep supporting that mistake. Trying to share the brand between two companies didn't work, and now we've fixed it. The name was more closely associated with hardware in most customers' minds, so it made sense for palmOne to have the name.

Mike
CCO, PalmSource Inc.
Michael Mace
05-24-2005 06:20 PM

http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?threadid=118473



RE: Where is Mace NOW?
mikecane @ 5/25/2005 5:17:53 PM # Q
Good for Timothy Rapson over there:

>>>I am flattered that Mr. Mace repsonds here at Brighthand's humble forum, but his comments continue to show he doesn't get it. It is not the name that has caused PalmOne to fall behind in market share; it is their failure to deliver.

CCO, C yourself!

RE: Where is Mace NOW?
mikecane @ 5/25/2005 5:22:22 PM # Q
Good for Gekko too:

"Reorganizing can be a wonderful method for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization."

And does Mace *really* believe this?

>>>Check out how things look in 2009, when we'll have the new name and four years of marketing behind it.

Mace = The New Criswell?

"We are all interested in the future, because that is where we will live."

Pull the Strings, Mace!

RE: Where is Mace NOW?
jkirvin @ 5/25/2005 5:27:27 PM # Q
Cane thus quoteth Rapson: "I am flattered that Mr. Mace repsonds here at Brighthand's humble forum, but his comments continue to show he doesn't get it. It is not the name that has caused PalmOne to fall behind in market share; it is their failure to deliver."

Out of curiousity, deliver *what* exactly? I think we're kind of in a vague "42" kind of area here. What exactly was PalmOne supposed to deliver that they didn't do?

RE: Where is Mace NOW?
mikecane @ 5/25/2005 5:31:35 PM # Q
Nit, nit, nit. I think he meant PalmSource, although both companies have fallen from their real peak (Palm) and Nagel-hallucinatory peak (PalmSource).

You could -- well, *Mace* could --- say that he is proving his (Mace's) own assertion about the name confusion.

Still waiting for those Eleven Licensees of Nagel's...

RE: Where is Mace NOW?
Gekko @ 5/25/2005 5:32:08 PM # Q

"It depends on what your definition of is is." - Chief Senior Palm Apologist



RE: Where is Mace NOW?
jkirvin @ 5/25/2005 5:37:28 PM # Q
Mike sez...
"Nit, nit, nit. I think he meant PalmSource, although both companies have fallen from their real peak (Palm) and Nagel-hallucinatory peak (PalmSource)."

Have they really? Okay, I'll grant that Cobalt hasn't caught hold nearly as fast as anyone hoped. I'm worried about that myself. But from PalmOne's perspective...

Here's another line from the same Rapson post Mike quoted earlier:
"the company has not delivered a really satisfying product of the level of the Palm V."

This is demonstratably not true! The Tungsten E outsold the Palm V. The Tungsten E was the most popular model Palm ever made. The E2 is selling well, and might topple the Vx. Personally, while I detested the Palm V design, I loved my E and I love my E-like T5. (Not to say Palm didn't have their lemons, too; the T3 sucked.)

This is devolving quickly into jilted fanboy ranting. It's all subjective. How do you define "really satisfying," anyway?

RE: Where is Mace NOW?
mikecane @ 5/25/2005 5:46:20 PM # Q
>>>I'll grant that Cobalt hasn't caught hold nearly as fast as anyone hoped

Caught hold?!!? "Hoped"?!!?

Hey, NAGEL EXPLICITLY ANNOUNCED WE'D HAVE COBALT DEVICES BY NOW.

From the looks of things, only *Group Sense* (whoooo?) will deliver one -- and 4Q this year (and probably only in China?!!?).

Stop excusing failure. These guys were paid a frikkin FORTUNE. It's people like these that make me want to warm up lampposts...

RE: Where is Mace NOW?
Davy Fields @ 5/25/2005 11:37:32 PM # Q
Michael Mace is, obviously, working and presenting at the PalmSource developer conference, where all the people that actually affect and contribute to the Palm OS platform are currently... they'll be back tomorrow, so maybe then they can come and talk about the future based on something other than personal opinions and soapboxed ideas.

-Davy Fields

RE: Where is Mace NOW?
Foo Fighter @ 5/26/2005 9:10:41 AM # Q
It should be obvious to even the blindest zealot that PalmSource, and the platform as a whole, are in deep trouble. Windows Mobile now dominates (over PalmOS anyway), while PalmSource presides over a shrinking list of licensees (failing to attract new ones), an orphan OS that nobody wants, a pie in the sky vaporware Linux project (which the company desperately hopes will save its ass), and now this shuffling of the deck in management.

The resulting effect of this broken road of mishaps, missteps, and mismanagement is that confidence in PalmOS is eroding. Right now it's is beginning to take on that sweet pungent odor of death. Who would want to hitch their cart to a dying horse? That's the line of thinking that will permeate the minds of would-be developers and potential licensees. Unless something dramatic takes place to reverse these trends, I don't hold much hope for seeing any device with a "Palm-powered" logo on back in 2009.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com

RE: Where is Mace NOW?
Surur @ 5/26/2005 10:04:58 AM # Q

I know this will sound like I'm just jumping on the bandwagon, but if I was a Palm developer with a fanatical following like Pimlico Software I would be preparing a port of my product to windows mobile, and automatically cash in on all the users jumping ship.

People praise the UI of Palm software a lot, but in the end the "look and feel" of a device can be replicated on any other device.
e.g.

vs.

http://www.resco.net/palm/explorer/screenshots.asp

The Palm one just looks purtier

Surur

RE: Where is Mace NOW?
Surur @ 5/26/2005 11:08:28 AM # Q
http://www.resco.net/palm/explorer/images/screen_014.png
http://www.resco.net/pocketpc/explorer/images/Explore_13.png



RE: Where is Mace NOW?
Foo Fighter @ 5/26/2005 12:44:37 PM # Q
I think the Palm version is actually uglier. At least in the sense that there are too many damn buttons.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com
Beware a blast from the past...
Masamune @ 5/26/2005 3:40:59 PM # Q
The things, even if P1/Palm/Whateveritsfrikkinnameis closesup completely, I still won't go to M$. Have you seen the 7710 smartphone? Its not a phone - its the first Symbian PDA. Same goes for the UIQs and Communicators. This is why Palm will have trouble in the smartphone market - not because of some half assed phone OS that M$ knocked together in a couple of minutes. Remember Symbian's origin - Psion. And Psion were a pain in the ass to Palm way back when Palm ruled the market..
RE: Where is Mace NOW?
Foo Fighter @ 5/26/2005 4:00:17 PM # Q
The only reason Symbian dominates is due to the popularity of Nokia phones. Consumers aren't buying these phones because of the OS they run...they're buying them because of the hardware and brand recognition. If Nokia ran SmileyFaceOS that would be the dominate platform. And I would hardly call WinMobile something MS threw together in two minutes. That's just silly slander talk.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com
RE: Where is Mace NOW?
Surur @ 5/26/2005 4:25:23 PM # Q
Masamune, you just demonstrated that you are just part of ABM (Anyone But Microsoft). Usability and software obviously mean nothing to you. BTW the attractive Nokia 770 runs Linux and some previously unheard of Maemo development platform. The 7710 runs Symbian. Are they both equally wonderful to you? I'm sure because they are A.B.M.

Surur

RE: Where is Mace NOW?
Gekko @ 5/26/2005 5:26:35 PM # Q
>The only reason Symbian dominates is due to the popularity of Nokia phones.

Exactly. And LIFE ISN'T FAIR.



RE: Where is Mace NOW?
Gekko @ 5/26/2005 5:27:23 PM # Q

Mace used to post here all the time. You *KNOW* he's still here lurking though.



RE: Where is Mace NOW?
Surur @ 5/26/2005 5:42:11 PM # Q
Gekko Said

--The only reason Symbian dominates is due to the popularity of Nokia phones.

Exactly. And LIFE ISN'T FAIR.

Agreed. I hope you can agree that Windows Mobile is competing on merit in the PDA/Smart-phone field (vs the campaign of dirty tricks MS have always been accused of in other areas) and that they are coming from behind against a company with a huge brand and installed base.

From what I've heard about MS culture, this is the kind of fight they like. To their advantage is the low public awareness of the Symbian OS vs Windows, and the high turnover rate of mobile phones.

They have a huge fight on their hands. May the best OS win.

Surur



May the best OS win
Gekko @ 5/26/2005 6:11:12 PM # Q

exactly.

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