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Comments on: Is the business of Making Native Apps for Mobile Devices Dying?

Michael Mace has published a new editorial on his Mobile Opportunity blog. The fascinating piece is less editorial and more of an up-to-the-minute analysis of the ailing mobile software industry from the perspective of a seasoned mobile tech executive. Long-time Palm watchers will recognize Mr. Mace as the former CCO and VP of Product Planning at Palm, Inc. as well as VP of Strategic Marketing at PalmSource and director of Mac Platform Marketing at Apple.

While I highly recommend anyone with even a passing interest to not only the Palm-conomy but the wireless industry in general read the full piece, Mr. Mace’s summary analysis is that he feels the influence of the carriers is choking what little momentum native mobile apps possessed in the halcyon days of the late 1990s and early 2000s. In short, Mr. Mace advocates any remaining mobile developer to move to web-based services due to the myriad of competing carriers, numerous semi-interoperable standards, and a glut of feuding OSes.

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So, does anyone still think...

SeldomVisitor @ 2/27/2008 7:00:29 PM # Q
...Palm is gonna have PalmOS compatibility with Nova?

RE: So, does anyone still think...
Ronin @ 2/27/2008 9:10:42 PM # Q
I have mixed feelings about this. I certainly have enjoyed and appreciated the rich software ecosystem that has grown around the Palm OS over the years. But I also know that the Palm OS has to die and be reborn as something new. OSes that have to shoulder the weight of legacy compatibility almost always suffer because of it in terms of overhead, bloat and stability (particularly when running those legacy apps). So I'm thinking, retaining backwards compatibility might not be such a good idea.

Besides, if the new Palm OS is good enough, open enough and rich enough it will draw developers to it and a new ecosystem will grow around it that might even be better than the old one which has be beaten up and bloodied beyond recognition.

In the Spirit of Umoja,
Ronin

RE: So, does anyone still think...
RussianGuy @ 2/28/2008 6:08:47 AM # Q
Palm's most important asset and the only remaining differentiator at this point is the ecosystem and users married to their PALM OS applications. Thus they MUST to capitalize on this!. SV is way off on that topic. Also, I don't think making a well-integrated POS emulator will be much of a hassle for them.
Yet, they have to put a lot of effort into building the best developer relationships compared to any other device - easy-to-use over-the-air application store with no commissions would be a great start...
RE: So, does anyone still think...
SeldomVisitor @ 2/28/2008 7:00:45 AM # Q
> ...Thus they MUST to capitalize on this!. SV is way off
> on that topic...

We'll see in a few months!

I think the lack of SOLID words about this from Palm tells the story, however.

RE: So, does anyone still think...
hkklife @ 3/7/2008 11:13:59 AM # Q
I have a theory:

Palm is in the process of circling the wagons with a few dozen of "big name" developers still supporting Garnet. When they came out with this new orange logo "Designed for Palm Products" initiative last year I thought they were crazy and it was waaaay too late to try and get anyone on board the Palm OS bandwagon. But now I think that this is an easy way of saying "well guys, sorry to tell you this but only "certified" apps bearing this official seal of approval will run under Nova"

And, the best part of it, is that no one will lose sleep trying to get DocsToGo 8.x running under Nova because we all know there will be a new version released to coincide with Nova. What the long-time (5-10+ years) Palm OS users need/want is backwards compatibility with custom software solutions for their business or a handy old freeware app that hasn''t been updated in years or to run a program whose developer has long since closed up shop or abandoned the market.

I think Palm will be spectacularly pleased if Nova is compatible with, say, 20-30% of the installed base of Palm OS programs on the market. Sort of like Sonh & Microsoft''s seldom-if-ever-updated list of a select number of PS2 & Xbox games that run on the software backwards compatibility modes of the PS3 and XBox 360.

https://pdn.palm.com/regac/pdn/index.jsp

At any rate, I think keeping 2-3 Garnet devices in production to run the legacy programs might just end up being a better solution overall for Palm.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Verizon Treo 700P-->Verizon 755p

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Great article

Nycran @ 2/27/2008 7:16:46 PM # Q
This article is on the money. Retail for mobile software has retracted and carriers are making it harder and harder to install software (i.e., requiring digital certificates, compliance with their rules, etc). It's going to be very interesting to see what freedoms Apple grants to developers when they release their SDK.


It's a sad state of affairs though. Which ever way you look at it, native apps on a mobile device are superior. They have access to native hardware (scanners, blue tooth, printers, etc), and fast local storage. What does someone relying on their mobile phone for work do when all their productivity apps are web based and the connection drops?

What say you PIC people? Any insights?

RE: Great article
Ronin @ 2/27/2008 9:15:09 PM # Q
I agree that something has got to change but I don't think that web apps are the answer.

I am not even remotely interested in the notion of having access to my data at the mercy of some third-party. I am even less interested in the notion of when and where I can have access to my apps at the mercy of a carrier and signal strength.

In the Spirit of Umoja,
Ronin

Reply to this comment

the masses don't want no native apps

Gekko @ 2/27/2008 8:47:34 PM # Q

mobile email/SMS, mobile word/excel, and mobile Google accomplish 99.9999% of what they want to do.

RE: the masses don't want no native apps
Gekko @ 2/27/2008 8:48:36 PM # Q

p.s. and of course, basic PIM.

RE: the masses don't want no native apps
mikecane @ 2/27/2008 8:50:57 PM # Q
Gekko, are you dressed all in black? One of your heroes have assumed room temperature, as the Fat Boy says.

http://mikecane2008.wordpress.com/2008/02/27/quote-william-f-buckley-jr/

RE: the masses don't want no native apps
Gekko @ 2/27/2008 9:06:20 PM # Q
RE: the masses don't want no native apps
sremick @ 2/28/2008 3:02:15 AM # Q
There's no signal where I use my Palm most of the time.

Even if there was, I don't want to have to pay 2X what I pay now for unlimited data on my cell plan just so I can do what I already do now with my Palm and native apps for no monthly fee.

Anyone who things wireless apps will take over is utterly clueless.

RE: the masses don't want no native apps
Poopie @ 2/28/2008 3:41:25 PM # Q
The masses want a really good, complete set of native apps with their mobile device out of the box -- they don't want a mobile OS platform that needs 20 add on apps to be fully functional as they see it.

And here's a clip of Android running webkit, quake, and google street view on a nice 320x480-ish mobile reference device:

http://feeds.gawker.com/~r/gizmodo/full/~3/242852481/andy-rubin-shows-off-quake-google-maps-street-view-on-android


Reply to this comment

Not dying... evolving

Poopie @ 2/27/2008 9:17:17 PM # Q
Perhaps the *business* of native apps isn't growing, but the amount of *CODE* that runs on mobile devices _is_ growing.

Mobile devices are basically small computers. They really don't need a completely different OS and completely different applications with completely unique codebases

Look at at Ubuntu Mobile - http://news.digitaltrends.com/news/story/15876/new_details_emerge_on_ubuntu_mobile


To give device manufacturers and application developers more control, Ubuntu Mobile allows custom users interfaces to be developed in HTML, Flash, Clutter, Python, GTK, C/C++, GTK and Java. It also offers full AJAX fidelity for Web 2.0 applications.

System requirements for Ubuntu mobile include an Intel Silverthorne processor, 256MB of RAM,and 2GB or more of flash or hard drive space. Although it will eventually see a public release in 2008, right now Canonical is courting manufacturers with pre-release versions of the system for upcoming mobile devices.


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It was suicide

T_W @ 2/27/2008 10:27:13 PM # Q
The mobile app market imploded because the device vendors all bought the Gartner swill and voluntarily stopped making devices.

We'll see how dead the market is when the iPod touch SDK is released.

RE: It was suicide
hkklife @ 2/27/2008 10:43:08 PM # Q
Let's say Joe Six-pack owns a TX, iPaq whatever, or any similar "unconnected" device. He buys the device for X dollars and can merrily use it with the built-in/bundled PIM apps. After a while he beomes an avid user of this device and decides to load it to the gills with freeware. After that he begins purchasing, on average, 1-2 pieces of software each month for this device.

Fast forward a year or two. Joe replaces that device with a Treo/Centro/other smartphone. Joe is of fairly modest means and is now getting clobbered with at least $50/month in service charges (usually more). He doesn't have that disposble income to drop on buying apps/games every month. So, naturally, everyone (PocketGear, Handango, the PIC etc etc) feels the pinch.

**********************************************
Palm's beloved Treo-centric lineup is a one-trick pony if I've ever seen it.
The sorts of people who buy PDAs are also the sorts of people who buy/try/download/pay for lots of mobile apps. When I went from a TX to a Treo, I cut back drastically on my gaming (less RAM + the lame SSS) as well as trying new software out of fear of sending my Treo into an endless reset loop and losing my mission-critical phone in the process. Of course, since I stopped using my Treo as a telephone that solved that problem nicely.

Between the constricting market, utter lack of compelling new hardware, improved software bundles from Palm, the misery of Garnet and the iron fist of the carriers, it's no wonder the market is in shambles. And for every Astraware or Hobbyist Software you have someone like Dataviz that tries to nickel and dime their customers at every possible opportunity ("download insurance" etc). DTG 8 & PTunes Standard still shipping on the Verizon 755p? A device that was released AFTER the Sprint Centro that comes with DTG 10 & PTunes Deluxe standard? AT&T crippling PTunes on their version of the Centro to try and sell the ridiculous XM streaming service? More and more apps being tied to the hardware ID of a device and being indifferent to paying customers who have had to replace devices due to faulty hardware and can no longer register the program they bought (here's lookin' at ya, TomTom!)

And a MOUNTAIN of blame can be placed directly at the feet of Palm for not overhauling the Palm Desktop YEARS ago to include some kind of mini-browser with the capability integrated to painlessly do one-click software downloads & installs. Heck, when I saw the Treo 650 released with a pitiful amount of available RAM I figured it was some master plan of Palm's to squeeze the life out of not only the PDA market but the mobile Palm OS software market as well.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Verizon Treo 700P-->Verizon 755p

RE: It was suicide
Gekko @ 2/27/2008 10:52:44 PM # Q

i know a lot of "joe six-packs" and a several "joe champagnes" that bought/were given mobile devices. none of them ever downloaded any software. we are the minority. and i only have a few apps left on my treo myself. could i live without them? sure, easily. do i use them much anymore? nope. it's just like my laptop - most people (including me) use what came with the computer - that's it.

mobile apps are a tiny small niche market relative to the number of devices out there. the growth demand of third-party mobile apps DID NOT/WILL NOT scale up proportionately with the growth in mobile smartphones.

let me repeat that -

the growth demand of third-party mobile apps DID NOT/WILL NOT scale up proportionately with the growth in mobile smartphones.



Reply to this comment

Nah

freakout @ 2/28/2008 2:25:13 AM # Q
Mace makes a lot of good points, but I can't agree with his overall conclusion that the market is fated to die off. It hasn't even gotten properly started! There have always been two major barriers to entry for the average consumer that no company has yet cracked. For starters, the distribution of native mobile apps has always been crap: no hardware vendor has yet provided a one-stop shop for mobile applications. Instead, you have dozens of different online stores, many with god-awful interfaces and arcane registration processes. Part of the reason mobile apps have yet to take off is that people just can't be bothered to go hunting or browsing through all the dross.

Second, once they finally do download something, installing and managing said app is even more clunky, due to the complete lack of consistency in the process. And if you want to go uninstalling anything, it all has to be done on the device itself with all the limitations that entails - small screen, fiddly input etc. So not only is it difficult to find good apps, it's a pain in the bum to manage them as well.

Is anyone really surprised most people don't bother?

Neither of the above two points is difficult to fix. Indeed, Apple might be about to do just that: if they choose to distribute iPhone apps through iTunes, and the (now late?) SDK actually goes open up the iPhone good and proper, then we'll see whether or not native mobile software has a future.

There are many, many good reasons for carriers and hardware vendors to encourage exclusive native apps, the most appealing of which is that they just may come to rely on one of them and then you have a customer for life. Look at the rabid game console market as an example: you currently have three expensive machines competing largely on the strength of their exclusive games. Many of those are published by the manufacturer themselves, but each also has exclusive third-party hits. I don't think the mobile software is poised to die so much as become consolidated into groups of major vendors.

The fact is that there are just too many different ways for people to live their lives for any one set of built-in software to ever satisfy everyone. Wireless coverage is too damn unreliable and likely will be that way for decades to come: web applications are not the answer. Native software has always had a place and it always will. It's just that nobody has capitalised on it properly yet. Not even the pioneers at Palm.

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

RE: Nah
freakout @ 2/28/2008 2:30:50 AM # Q
the most appealing of which is that they just may come to rely on one of them and then you have a customer for life.

'They' should read 'consumers'. stupid brain.

RE: Nah
PacManFoo @ 2/28/2008 11:57:34 AM # Q
I agree with some aspects of the article but I also think the software developers are part of the problem. How many developers started only making 320X320 version software for the Palm platform. The numbers indicated that TX owners bought more software then their Treo counterparts yet they ignored this base of users. Yes the numbers would gradually decrease from the TX users but they chose a sudden decrease instead. I think the developers are somewhat lazy. A lot of these developers will jump to new platforms to make their next quick buck but I for one will not forget how these developers have ignored me and I will do the same back to them in the future. On the other hand there are developers who have continued to not only support the TX but other classic PalmOS based handhelds even now. For them I am grateful and will continue to support their future products.

PDA's Past and Present:
Palm TX (Number 2)
Palm - IIIxe, Vx, M500, M505, Tungsten T, TX
Handspring - Edge, Platinum, Deluxe
Sony - SJ22, UX50
Casio-EM500
Apple - MP110, MP2000, MP2100
RE: Nah
twrock @ 2/28/2008 9:19:26 PM # Q
As I read Mace's post, I was left with the feeling that what I have come to love about a PDA might very well die because of the convergence of a lot of factors, not the least of which is that the masses are ignorant and only "want" what is spoon fed to them. But I do hope he's wrong.

What I love about my PDA (TX at the moment) is that it is a standalone mini computer in my pocket on which I can choose apps to install and can use it any time, any where. That is of no interest to the telco carriers; they don't make a cent off of me when I use native apps or my own network to browse the web or get email. If they could somehow get me to do all my mobile computing "through" them, they'd start making real money from me. And it of course won't hurt them at all that all of the apps and all of the data is on the web and thus only accessible through their "much slower than native apps" connection.

It's one thing for me to be sitting at my desk with my always-connected computer and go to some website to do a conversion of length from feet to centimeters. It's another thing for me to be able to do that while I'm standing on site somewhere on my TX with Unit Converter Pro without having to wait to connect to anything or pay anybody for that connection time. When I think of the number of different apps I use in an average day, I can only reach one conclusion: I want native apps on my handheld device.

So I'm hoping Mace is wrong and David Beers is right:
"So, the market got saturated with all the old kinds of apps people used to buy for their PDAs. So, there are more operating systems out there than you can shake a stick at. Are we not technologists? If the difficulties you list are big enough to stop what I see as the coming Golden Age of mobile software from happening and force us all back to the browser, which has no concept of the user's physical environment aside from what they poke into it, then it's not native software that's dead: it's innovation itself." (quote from his comment)



"twrock is infamous around these parts"
(from my profile over at Brighthand due to my negative 62 rep points rating)

RE: Nah
skeezix @ 2/29/2008 10:50:20 AM # Q
pacman --

For most of us devs, I don't think it is lazyness or the urge for a quick buck (though obviously there are those elements for many.) Making an application fully compatible across even the T|X and the Treos is a difficult thing -- even some of the OS built in applications fail to do it properly (!!). Factor in history .. different development APIs for Sony, Handera, multiple for Palm, and all the many other brands out there. We end up having to build the resize-for-virtual-grafitti code 6 or 7 different ways, all in one application. Likewise for the jogdial, 5-way, and so on. It was not managed well, so in the end the code is difficult to maintain and grow, and very difficult (sometimes impossible) to do right. (Then factor in the fact the official development tools, CodeWarrior, have been out of production for years and the new tools mis-aimed at OS6 and so forth.. the devs do not have it easy. Its about as hostile as it gets, which is one of the issues Michael Mace brought up.)

The near-constant is 320x320 (or 160x160), so most go with it.

jeff

The Shadow knows!

Reply to this comment

No surprise

tftp @ 2/28/2008 9:31:11 PM # Q
Is anybody surprised the mobile software market is stagnant? Let's face it, 25000 apps later, there aren't many things left to develop on the Palm: Palm didn't advance the platform and let non-connected devices whither and die. Blackberry cuts off developers at the knees because so many companies lock out third party apps.

The only viable market left for mobile apps is the iPhone. Oddly, it will be successful for many of the same reasons Palm was successful: to fix some of the inherent flaws in the system. And I'm sure we'll see our old friends at Splash Data make a series of apps for the iPhone.

Reply to this comment

forest for the trees ... or vice versa

pmjoe @ 2/29/2008 5:22:08 AM # Q
What Michael Mace really misses is what happened historically. Around the turn of the century Palm was thriving as a developer's platform, tens of thousands of apps and probably as many excited developers ... but the Palm OS was reaching its limits. It was, and still is, very hardware bound to a 160x160 screen Motorola dragonball architecture, with an unusual memory model ... exciting enough to do some cool PDA apps, but certainly not ready for the next generation of mobile devices where gigabytes of flash RAM were cheap, multimedia was a necessity and multiple forms of wireless connections were common.

For a while, developers held on. There was an announced path from Palm OS 4 to Palm OS 6. Palm was also heavily active in the Java 2 Microedition effort for the CDC platform which also looked sufficient for multiplatform PDA development. It was an exciting time, anticipation was high.

What happened? The Palm OS stagnated and Java CDC lost probably its biggest market when Palm dropped participation in that working group as well.

Six years later with the iPhone/iPod touch SDK and Google's Android, it looks like the idea of exciting development platforms may be coming to fruition. I'd say that the new day of "native" (more like non-web based, or device hosted) mobile apps is just beginning!

Also, I'd suggest that his idea of a web-app based business model for your typical low-budget mobile app developer is somewhat flawed. The business model for a device hosted app is rather simple, a developer just needs to provide a license key system, allow users to pay, say via PayPal for the software, and make copies of the software available on popular download sites (usually for free). A web-app based system is far more complex. You're required to keep a reliable web server up at all times, and might be responsible cost-wise for your site's bandwidth if it becomes popular. You become responsible for people's data that is stored on the server ad infinitum. I'm not sure what the donation/pay frequency rate is on freeware/shareware apps, but if you give away a device hosted app, there are no real costs on the developer ... it's quite a different story if you're hosting a website for non-paying users, a subscription-based model is far more likely. Also, at least in what I'm seeing for the iPhone/iPod touch, some sites are already customizing their content for specific mobile devices ... so the idea that you're going to write a web-app once be done with it isn't quite right either.

Anyhow, I think with the iPhone and Android, we're about to see a rejuvenation of the device hosted mobile software market. That will trickle down to the lower-cost devices with time and consumer demand. Much like everything with Palm ... Michael Mace's opinion piece is a few years too late. Mobile web apps are last year's news ... if you aren't already doing it, you may have already missed out.


Reply to this comment

Could your timing have been more precise on the news of Palm.

husk3y @ 2/29/2008 6:32:41 AM # Q
webmaster@pdaperformance.com to me
show details Feb 27 (1 day ago) Reply


Dear Customer/Beta Tester,

This was an extremely difficult decision for us, but certainly a critical one that we had to make. Our most recent development efforts, namely LineUp and Saguaro, relied primarily on the success of Palm. You’ve most likely heard about the struggling Palm OS economy. Unfortunately, it’s affecting us as well in ways we never could have predicted.

We’ve poured our hearts into making both LineUp and Saguaro and agonized over every last detail in both the code and design. During development, if a portion of our code wasn’t exactly right, we’d redo it to perfection. We’re that fanatical about our software. But when it comes right down to it - we’re a team of entrepreneurs, programmers and designers that have to eat, too.

Many thanks go to all of our fans and customers who have supported us throughout our development. We’re sorry to say that after six successful years, we have to go. We’re sure there are many more opportunities that will present themselves in the future. So don’t worry about us. We’ll be fine. Chances are, someday you might find each of us out in unique industries doing what we love most – innovating.

Best Regards,
The Team @ PDA Performance

RE: Could your timing have been more precise on the news of Palm.
mikecane @ 3/13/2008 9:55:10 AM # Q
It's too bad they didn't release specific numbers, testing downloads versus actual purchases. That would finally tell us all just how bad the Palm Economy has crashed.

Reply to this comment

emulator

NuShrike @ 2/29/2008 5:10:38 PM # Q
The writing is on the wall. Help Styletap with their PalmOS emulator, and you can migrate off Palm's dying back.
Reply to this comment

Apple says Developers get 70% for selling their iPhone apps

SeldomVisitor @ 3/6/2008 2:23:08 PM # Q
During the (ongoing) "apple SDK" talk, apple says developers get to keep 70% of their selling price for the apps they develop for the iPhone and sell via Apple's "Apps" application.


RE: Apple says Developers get 70% for selling their iPhone apps
tompi @ 3/7/2008 3:32:16 AM # Q
You are aware that there is no other way of selling your app, right? Either you distribute your app through Apple, or you don''t distribute at all. The iPhone is a big step backwards for mobile devices.

RE: Apple says Developers get 70% for selling their iPhone apps
freakout @ 3/7/2008 4:32:27 AM # Q
^^ I think it's a giant leap forward, actually. Apple say it'll be open to pretty much anything, so long as it's not offensive or whatever. It'll help entrench the idea of personalising devices with applications, by putting it up there with music and movies as an integral part of iTunes. It'll make it easier to find and download an app that solves your needs; no more remembering logins and passwords at a dozen different online sites.

And given the vast river of money that flows through the iTunes store on a daily basis, which developer wouldn't want to hop on the gravy train?

RE: Apple says Developers get 70% for selling their iPhone apps
SeldomVisitor @ 3/7/2008 6:49:12 AM # Q
I have no personal preference about software distribution methods; the reason for posting the original of this thread was simply to note the 30% commission rate since somewhere on PiC there was a small discussion about some Palm-software distributor charging something like 50%. I was simply too lazy to try to track down that not-that-long-ago discussion to post there.


RE: Apple says Developers get 70% for selling their iPhone apps
jca666us @ 3/7/2008 7:50:29 AM # Q
Some notes:

- if your app. is FREE - then you get charged nothing.
- The 30% (as per apple) is used to pay for hosting, deploying, and marketing the app. - They probably pull a percentage of that as pure profit...

RE: Apple says Developers get 70% for selling their iPhone apps
nastebu @ 3/7/2008 11:04:56 AM # Q
Actually, this thread about the death of native apps for mobile devices seems perfect to talk about Apple''s decision. One of the complaints in the article is the fracturing of the distribution model. In that light iTunes distribution seems a big step forward.

Also:
2.) the SDK seems designed to be powerful, easy to use, and widely accessible. That seems intended to create as broad a base of development as possible.
3.) There''s a 100 million dollar fund being set up to support iPhone development.

I wonder if those three things don''t change the article''s outlook? Certainly Google, Microsoft, Palm etc. will have to adjust and try to create similar development eco-systems around Android, WinMob, and Nova. Otherwise in a year or so the iPhone will have a vast ocean of applications (what Palm regards as one of its primary advantages).

I would think the bar is raised and the small developer just got a big boost.

RE: Apple says Developers get 70% for selling their iPhone apps
mikecane @ 3/7/2008 11:19:51 AM # Q
>>>I wonder if those three things don''''t change the article''''s outlook?

Oh for fek''s sake. It was by Michael Mace. The guy who thought the Foleo was as significant an intro -- if not moreso! -- than the original Mac.

PUH-LEEZE!

RE: Apple says Developers get 70% for selling their iPhone apps
mikecane @ 3/7/2008 11:20:27 AM # Q
Hmmmm... why is PIC suddenly turning apostrophes into double quotes?

RE: Apple says Developers get 70% for selling their iPhone apps
SeldomVisitor @ 3/7/2008 11:48:35 AM # Q
double quote "
apostrophe '

RE: Apple says Developers get 70% for selling their iPhone apps
SeldomVisitor @ 3/7/2008 11:51:40 AM # Q
Quoted double quote - don''t

Quote for sure double quote - double quote "

Quoted apostrophe - it'll

Visually in my Firefox the first line's original is a double quote while the copy quoted is actually TWO apostrophes

RE: Apple says Developers get 70% for selling their iPhone apps
Ryan @ 3/7/2008 12:06:09 PM # Q
will look into the quote issues, thanks.
RE: Apple says Developers get 70% for selling their iPhone apps
Ryan @ 3/7/2008 12:47:09 PM # Q
Should be resolved now.
RE: Apple says Developers get 70% for selling their iPhone apps
mikecane @ 3/7/2008 7:58:46 PM # Q
>>>>>>I wonder if those three things don''''t change the article''''s outlook?

Frikkin-A. It's only in the line I quoted.

But now that I've copy&pasted it - it's done it double!

Yeesh.

Reply to this comment

Apple iSDK: Is ACCESS scared?

mikecane @ 3/7/2008 8:01:10 PM # Q
I'm disappointed El Lefto didn't come to my blog to bray about my being wrong about the date for the iPod Air intro.

But what I'm really keen to know is what he thinks of the iSDK.

No multitasking.

No file access.

Ouch.

Eh. I think he's saving that for the iPod Air.

See if you agree:

http://tinyurl.com/2le3mp

RE: Apple iSDK: Is ACCESS scared?
twrock @ 3/7/2008 9:25:31 PM # Q
"What truth?"
"That you are a slave, Neo. Like everyone else, you were born into bondage. Born into a prison that you cannot smell or taste or touch. A prison . . . for your mind."

"We have survived by hiding from them . . . by running from them. But they are the gatekeepers. They are guarding all the doors, they are holding all the keys, and that means that sooner or later, someone is going to have to fight them." (The Matrix)


http://preview.tinyurl.com/3areaq (and please don't tell me how terrible the hardware is; that's not the point)

http://preview.tinyurl.com/35yqb9 (the whole "iPhone SDK: 5 Reasons to Love/Hate" article)
http://preview.tinyurl.com/3aj5b7


"twrock is infamous around these parts"
(from my profile over at Brighthand due to my negative 62 rep points rating)

RE: Apple iSDK: Is ACCESS scared?
twrock @ 3/7/2008 9:27:24 PM # Q
(Sorry. I didn't notice I was pasting the "preview" links.)


"twrock is infamous around these parts"
(from my profile over at Brighthand due to my negative 62 rep points rating)
RE: Apple iSDK: Is ACCESS scared?
akalefty @ 3/7/2008 9:55:29 PM # Q
Scared? Of an SDK that can't even support a background thread or multitasking...? One that completely sandboxes access to data, so that you can't even communicate with other applications?

I enjoyed the paragraphs and paragraphs of reasons for which Apple can deny your application access to their mandatory-sole-distribution-channel-for-thirty-percent-off-the-top, carefully detailed in their developer agreement. Not to mention the hundred page, also mandatory, human interface guidelines.

There's the little bit about how "an application may not itself install or launch other executable code by any means, including without limitation through the use of a plug-in architecture..." So no Firefox, no Thunderbird, no Trillian, etc., etc... I guess Quicktime gets a pass.

And then there's the $99 mandatory certificate, required to even submit your app for consideration. This fee applies whether you plan to charge for your app or not.

I wonder if the wait time to get an application into the "iTunes App Store" will be longer or shorter than the three months or so it takes to get a podcast into the iTune Music Store directory. I also wonder who the EU is going to be taking an interest in now that they've extracted a billion and a half from Microsoft. This whole arrangement smells tres monopoliste to me, worse than the music store, which already had them upset...

(If Amazon wrote an app that downloaded MP3s from their site to the iPhone, would Apple allow it in their store...?)

Anyways, it's March, I thought your Mac-Air-i-Touch-Book-Pod thingy was supposed to be out and "self-cannibalizing" the rest of the product line by now. If I was going to taunt you about something, it'd be that. Frankly, I don't really give you all that much thought, Mike, sad as that must be for you. From my point of view, and compared with your weird fantasies, there's a lot more interesting stuff going on.

On that note, I'll be presenting a talk called "How Open is 'Open'?" at the iPhone Developers' Summit in New York week after next. Yesterday's announcement did not make my job the least little bit harder...

And I'm still waiting to see them get A2DP support in there.


RE: Apple iSDK: Is ACCESS scared?
SeldomVisitor @ 3/8/2008 9:38:10 AM # Q
But...but...but...ya wanna know what =I= wonder?

I wonder how reliable an ALP-based phone is going to be!

Because to me, a phone MUST be a phone at all times.

Period.

When it turns into a brick, even transiently, and ceases to serve as a phone it's a ...well... brick.

When a device is wide open to anyone I cannot imagine that device NOT playing brick with ease.

No thanks.

[and, unfortunately, there is MORE than ample SOLID evidence that unvetted software guarantees brickdom]

RE: Apple iSDK: Is ACCESS scared?
twrock @ 3/8/2008 11:19:03 AM # Q
...unvetted software guarantees brickdom

"Vetted" by whom?
"Guarantees" in what way?
So does that mean that if the iPhone was truly "open", every conceivable piece of software that did not pass through the Apple iOrifice would be "guaranteed" to reduce the iPhone to a state of "brickdom"?
So then that must mean that somehow Garnet is a more stable OS than the iPhone's since people can install who knows how many "unvetted" pieces of software on it without bricking their Treos. Silly me; I thought that Apple had a really good OS in their iPhone. Garnet can at least handle some unvetted software, but the iPhone can't handle any!


"twrock is infamous around these parts"
(from my profile over at Brighthand due to my negative 62 rep points rating)
RE: Apple iSDK: Is ACCESS scared?
mikecane @ 3/8/2008 12:27:33 PM # Q
twrock: That "standards blog" post was hilarious. Please show me the similar screed he did for the Zune and Zune Marketplace. Oh, he didn't? Why am I not surprised? And he mentions Android? Yeah, right. An OS that isn't even running on something people can buy being compared to the iPhone's OS X.

lefty: Oh come on!

>>>(If Amazon wrote an app that downloaded MP3s from their site to the iPhone, would Apple allow it in their store...?)

I know u iz a man of limited IQ, but to sink to parroting *that* line is simply sad. Tell me you've downloaded from the amazon MP3 store (which is CRAP!). What, you haven't? Nor have tens of millions others...

>>>Anyways, it's March, I thought your Mac-Air-i-Touch-Book-Pod thingy was supposed to be out and "self-cannibalizing" the rest of the product line by now. If I was going to taunt you about something, it'd be that. Frankly, I don't really give you all that much thought, Mike, sad as that must be for you. From my point of view, and compared with your weird fantasies, there's a lot more interesting stuff going on.

Eh. The frikkin SDK wasn't even done and apparently still isn't. Jobs must have made the mistake of hiring some people from Palm. He's moving at palmspeed. Next iPod Air ETA is now June, when the SDK is done.

The only weird fantasy around here, leftoid, is that ACCESS will have more than one customer. Hey, how's that "study" with DoCoMo going? I thought so...

RE: Apple iSDK: Is ACCESS scared?
SeldomVisitor @ 3/8/2008 12:57:11 PM # Q
TW-etc - you REALLY need to simply sit on your hands because your replies are so ill-thought out.

No kidding.

Perhaps a course in elementary logic might help.

REALLY no kidding.

RE: Apple iSDK: Is ACCESS scared?
mikecane @ 3/8/2008 1:57:36 PM # Q
I guess DoCoMo finished "studying" ALP. Here is their conclusion:

Two new LiMo phones to challenge Android
http://tinyurl.com/2oa53b

RE: Apple iSDK: Is ACCESS scared?
nastebu @ 3/8/2008 4:28:12 PM # Q
I'm confused about the lack of multi-tasking and background processes on the iPhone. It certainly feels like Safari runs in the background. Pages load in the background anyway. And how can you have an IM client that doesn't run in the background?

Anyway Lefty, you're not worried about this as competition? Whatever the shortcomings, it's obviously extremely popular. The Apple servers were jammed after the announcement, which is pretty crazy for an arcane, unfinished, software tool that really should be of interest to only a select number of developers. It's more evidence of how much traction the iPhone has gained.

And Jobs re-affirmed the 10 million by the end of the year figure recently, so they still think they're on track.

RE: Apple iSDK: Is ACCESS scared?
TreoAnon @ 3/8/2008 8:37:17 PM # Q
With iTunes being the rock that the iPhone is built on, perhaps David S. (aka Lefty) could comment why have Access so neglected their local server product, PalmDesktop? You still can't install, backup or restore files with blocks greater than 64KB, even though PalmOS has supported blocks of greater than 64KB for some time. And it still remains a tricky product to use.

Note: Palm didn't get the rights to PalmDesktop when they go the rights to the OS, so this is still, I believe, an Access product.

Chris Dunphy, a former PalmSource (pre-Access) employee, posted an interesting article to the Palm Entrepreneurs Forum about Apple's software distribution scheme for the iPhone...


I heard from a few people yesterday saying essentially: "You must be
sitting here watching this saying 'that is exactly what I tried to
make!'"

Indeed - the infrastructure and ecosystem Apple has built looks almost
exactly like the direction I was trying to take PalmSource three or
four years ago. The Installer that did make it out the door was only
the tip of the iceberg. My goal was to make every piece of the chain
between developers and users just as simple, including even having an
on-device application manager handling updates and helping developers
sell upgrades.

I think Apple's $99/year fee for developers to be able to sign
applications is the same price I was shooting for, and I was trying to
make the signing / certification process as cheap (if not free) as
possible. The premise was to start off with an assumption of trusting
the developers, and if they break the rules - we know who they are and
we can revoke their certificate. Contrast this with crazy expensive
(and ultimately pointless) upfront testing and per-device and per-
carrier certification programs. Those programs will never work for
small developers, they do not scale to a large and diverse market, and
they will never let a broad economy thrive.

The path Apple is heading down is the right way to do things.

The one major difference was that I intended to support multiple
storefronts - there was no established gateway like iTunes in the
PalmOS world and I needed to build something that PalmGear and
Handango and the like would not rebel against too strongly. I wanted
to also build an infrastructure that would allow developers to sell
direct, and I think Apple is missing out on an opportunity here.

Sadly - the device manufacturers and mobile operators had a very hard
time understanding the value of a broad and unleashed developer
ecosystem. And PalmSource itself had a hard time understanding why it
was important to support existing users and not just future OS6
licensees... It was a constant fight uphill, until the whole project
was eventually scrapped because no one could really understand the
return on investment that comes from helping a developer ecosystem
thrive. You can only begin to imagine how frustrating fighting some
of those battles was.

I can't help but imagine what the Palm economy might have looked like
by now if we had managed to do this right...

Apple seems to really understands that the ecosystem and the business
model is just as important to get right as the technical bits. And
Apple is courageous (and large) enough not to be groveling for the
approval of the mobile operators every step of the way.

RE: Apple iSDK: Is ACCESS scared?
twrock @ 3/8/2008 8:45:23 PM # Q
Perhaps a course in elementary logic might help.

But..., but..., but, I was only using the fine logic I learned from you! If it works for you, why can't I use it?

SV, are you actually believing the stuff you spread on this site?! (And does obvious sarcasm completely escape you?)

Mike, no doubt he has a huge agenda (like someone else we know), but I (1) thought it was interesting and (2) did see a couple of nuggets in there. Please don't mistakenly assume I entirely agree with things I link too. That'd be using SV "logic".

I gotta run, but I'll feel much happier as I go throughout my day knowing that the iPhone is really now "open". And since they released the iSDK and established the iOrifice I can now go right out and buy an iPhone and be assured it will never be tainted by any aberrant piece of software that hasn't been hand picked and "vetted" by Steve Jobs himself. It is so nice knowing that I will only ever want what Steve tells me is good for me. I can remain pure and unspoiled by all of that other nasty software that might taint me and my blessed iPhone and cause it to turn into a brick.

(strains of "Peaceful Easy Feeling" by the Eagles play softly in the background)


"twrock is infamous around these parts"
(from my profile over at Brighthand due to my negative 62 rep points rating)

RE: Apple iSDK: Is ACCESS scared?
mikecane @ 3/8/2008 10:03:10 PM # Q
>>>The one major difference was that I intended to support multiple
storefronts - there was no established gateway like iTunes in the
PalmOS world and I needed to build something that PalmGear and
Handango and the like would not rebel against too strongly. I wanted
to also build an infrastructure that would allow developers to sell
direct, and I think Apple is missing out on an opportunity here.

==================================

>>>>And let me show that I've been ahead of the curve here on what people will start whining about in a few months — the iTunes Store should be opened:

This entry was posted on August 31, 2007 at 3:54 pm:
Should Apple Turn iTunes Into A Platform?
http://mikecane.wordpress.com/2007/08/31/should-apple-turn-itunes-into-a-platform/

- from: For The Record: Apple and eBooks
http://mikecane2008.wordpress.com/2008/03/03/for-the-record-apple-and-ebooks/

tw, if I have an agenda, it's this:

1) The Finnish company must diediedie!

2) Palm can go rot in hell

That clear enough?

RE: Apple iSDK: Is ACCESS scared?
akalefty @ 3/9/2008 12:19:01 AM # Q
Tell me you've downloaded from the amazon MP3 store (which is CRAP!). What, you haven't? Nor have tens of millions others...

Yes, I have, Mike, many times, at least a dozen or more albums now. I even wrote about it on my blog within the last several weeks. Amazon's MP3 downloading works perfectly in my experience, and it's universaly cheaper than the iTunes store.

Your having managed to work out how to capitalize the word "CRAP" does not constitute a critique.

RE: Apple iSDK: Is ACCESS scared?
twrock @ 3/9/2008 1:09:35 AM # Q
Palm can go rot in hell

Very clear (and you have been very clear, so I haven't been wondering about that).

Now, here's what I'm curious about: why are you here then? It's an honest question on my part; I am wondering, and I don't understand. Here, let me go at it from another angle, and you can tell me why I don't get it.

I current use two Palm devices: a TX that I carry with me at almost all times and a Zodiac2 that is currently being used only as an MP3 player connected to my home stereo system. My wife uses a T2. I have a significant investment in this platform and still will for at least the foreseeable future. I might point out (and even rant about) what I see as the short-comings of Palm Inc., but I do "root" for them and would really like to see them somehow succeed in spite of all of the stupidity that has gone on.

BUT...

If I decide I am done with Palm and move on to some other platform, I'm gone from here. I can't see the point in hanging around here when my interests and investments have changed and I believe I have truly found something that works better for me. So if I were to stick around, there would need to be some other "why" that I haven't come up with yet. Maybe I just haven't thought of that yet. Maybe there really is some other good "why" for sticking around here even though I wouldn't be using the Palm platform nor have any intention of doing so in the future.

So, why? It seems (if I am reading you correctly) that your involvement here is in some way an attempt to hasten the death of Palm Inc. If so, good luck, but I don't think you will have much affect on that. Personally, I wouldn't waste my time on it, but maybe I'm missing something.


"twrock is infamous around these parts"
(from my profile over at Brighthand due to my negative 62 rep points rating)

RE: Apple iSDK: Is ACCESS scared?
twrock @ 3/9/2008 1:14:55 AM # Q
And what's with that "USB Humping Dog" advert on that site you linked to?! Yep, I'd really like to have some dog humping the USB port on my computer; that'd be so cool!


"twrock is infamous around these parts"
(from my profile over at Brighthand due to my negative 62 rep points rating)
RE: Apple iSDK: Is ACCESS scared?
mikecane @ 3/9/2008 11:03:30 AM # Q
>>>Yes, I have, Mike, many times, at least a dozen or more albums now. I even wrote about it on my blog within the last several weeks. Amazon's MP3 downloading works perfectly in my experience, and it's universaly cheaper than the iTunes store.

Why don't you give an URL to your blog so I can see?

It's cap CRAP because it is. Only a programmer would consider the amazon interface consumer-grade. Give me a break. I crine now thinking of what ALP is really like.

tw -> Yo, fat fingers. I still have a LifeDrive I use. Now KMA.

RE: Apple iSDK: Is ACCESS scared?
mikecane @ 3/9/2008 11:04:40 AM # Q
Always the typo.

crine = cringe.

Although if crine is such a word and would also convey my anticipatory horror, fine.

And tw can still go KMA.

RE: Apple iSDK: Is ACCESS scared?
twrock @ 3/9/2008 11:32:05 AM # Q
I still have a LifeDrive I use.

So even though there are better options (you do believe that, don't you?), you continue to use that horrid LifeDrive of yours? Mike, what does that say about you?

Sure, I complain about my TX too, but at least I don't believe there is anything better to move on to at the moment (for a variety of reasons). When I do, I don't intend to hold onto my TX and keep whining about it. Dude, you need to move on already.


"twrock is infamous around these parts"
(from my profile over at Brighthand due to my negative 62 rep points rating)

RE: Apple iSDK: Is ACCESS scared?
mikecane @ 3/9/2008 12:30:24 PM # Q
>>>So even though there are better options (you do believe that, don't you?), you continue to use that horrid LifeDrive of yours? Mike, what does that say about you?

tw, KMA. Draw any conclusions you wish, you eejit.

RE: Apple iSDK: Is ACCESS scared?
twrock @ 3/9/2008 9:16:11 PM # Q
Did I hit a nerve there Mike? :) And be careful what you wish for Mike. I really don't think you want me "kissing" any part of you.


"twrock is infamous around these parts"
(from my profile over at Brighthand due to my negative 62 rep points rating)
RE: Apple iSDK: Is ACCESS scared?
mikecane @ 3/9/2008 9:18:51 PM # Q
tw, that you should think I have to give an account of myself to you in any aspect of my life is laughable. Piss off.

RE: Apple iSDK: Is ACCESS scared?
akalefty @ 3/10/2008 1:54:35 PM # Q
Why don't you give an URL to your blog so I can see?

I've provided it before: http://opensourcetogo.blogspot.com. There's this cool thing called "bookmarks"...

It's cap CRAP because it is.

Another thoughtful and incisive analysis. Is this substantially different than, oh, "Because I say so!"...?

Only a programmer would consider the amazon interface consumer-grade. Give me a break.

What "interface"? I click on the button for an album, the download starts up in the background and downloads the tracks, and then drops them directly into iTunes.

What on earth are you talking about? Have you ever downloaded any tracks from Amazon yourself? It seems not...

I crine now thinking of what ALP is really like.

It's certainly not worth "crine" over. Buck up, ya big sissy.

If you want to see what ALP is "really like", rather than imagining and weeping, you can download the SDK.

RE: Apple iSDK: Is ACCESS scared?
mikecane @ 3/10/2008 7:37:15 PM # Q
Bah. Right now all I'm getting is a Blogger status page. Thinks are scrood.

Nah. I'm not interested in the SDK. Waste of disk space (that's only slightly an insult; since I'm no coder, what use would it be to me? I didn't get the iSDK, either).

I gave amazon a shot the way I'd use any service - searching for something I wanted. FAIL FAIL FAIL = CRAP.

RE: Apple iSDK: Is ACCESS scared?
Gekko @ 3/10/2008 10:33:50 PM # Q

sorry lefty, but Access and ALP will barely be but a sad footnote in the history of mobile computing.

go back to teaching high school math where you belong.

RE: Apple iSDK: Is ACCESS scared?
TreoAnon @ 3/11/2008 12:54:29 AM # Q
This juvenile name calling is just not appropriate! Neither are the irrelevant personal attacks. If you can't be civil and reasonable rational, spend more time with your personal mental health professional and less time posting to PalmInfoCenter.

I don't know whether Lefty's ALP, Palm's new system (aka Nova) or Goggle's Android are going to be competitive, high volume products, but there are a bunch of smart, motivated people trying very hard to make each of those products work.

I do know that with the notable exception of the iPod, Apple has an impressive record of making low volume, high margin niche products. The natural arrogance of Steve Jobs has generally worked against more general acceptance of what are usually pretty good products.

Apple have created a temporary niche on the mobile phone business of a high margin, medium volume product, but that niche is too valuable to be left to them. This is money and margin that the carriers themselves are accustomed to pocketing. As a result there is tremendous market pressure for viable alternatives.

RE: Apple iSDK: Is ACCESS scared?
mikecane @ 3/11/2008 9:56:52 AM # Q
>>>This juvenile name calling is just not appropriate! Neither are the irrelevant personal attacks. If you can't be civil and reasonable rational, spend more time with your personal mental health professional and less time posting to PalmInfoCenter.

Listen, kid, you don't get it: We've been around here a long time and are used to abusing one another. We don't (usually) do it to strangers.

Gekko, what? No appropriate quote for ACCESS/ALP?

RE: Apple iSDK: Is ACCESS scared?
TreoAnon @ 3/11/2008 11:12:31 AM # Q
You, "MikeCane", need to develop some basic webiquette. You are posting rants, personal attacks and other obnoxious behavior that would not be tolerated in person. If you have something relevant to say, say it in a civil and rational manner.

Stop the abuse!

RE: Apple iSDK: Is ACCESS scared?
akalefty @ 3/11/2008 6:27:47 PM # Q
Oh, I'm completely used to Mike, the Lizard and others behaving like children here. I'm not sure what Gekko's remarkable ability to predict the future might be attributed to, by I'm inclined to suggest a combination of spite and an overactive imagination. As far as Mike goes, I've never actually seen him make particular sense, so there's not much of a baseline for comparison...

Sorry, guys, I understand that you find it disappointing, but dire predictions notwithstanding, we're not planning on shutting down the company any time soon.

Sorry For The Inconvenience.


RE: Apple iSDK: Is ACCESS scared?
akalefty @ 3/11/2008 6:39:01 PM # Q
I gave amazon a shot the way I'd use any service - searching for something I wanted. FAIL FAIL FAIL = CRAP.

I've never had even the slightest problem finding what I was looking for, unless it was simply nonexistent on Amazon (in which case, you won't likely find it on iTunes, either.) I type in an artist or album name and hit search, and the results come up. If fact, for the albums to which it applies, "Download MP3 album" shows up directly in the search results.

Frankly, Mike, I strongly suspect "pilot error" here.

Now, if you want to talk about "CRAP" software, let's talk about iTunes. I just had the unfortunate experience (for the second time in the past six months) of having Apple's software crap all over its library.xml file, which means that it no longer knows Thing One about a single one of the 8,000-odd tracks I have in my library.

This means that I have no real recourse but to reimport the entire library into iTunes.

That means that the next time I resynch my iPod, iTunes is going to feel it necessary to resynch the entire library.

Do you know how long it takes to put 110 gigabytes of music and videos onto an iPod Classic? I do: the better part of three days. During which time my choice of music to listen to will be substantially limited. The only upside I can see is that I guess it defragments the disk...

That's "CRAP" software, Mikey.


RE: Apple iSDK: Is ACCESS scared?
Gekko @ 3/11/2008 6:50:01 PM # Q

it sounds like someone is very jealous of msft, apple, and google.

access who?

RE: Apple iSDK: Is ACCESS scared?
akalefty @ 3/11/2008 7:59:59 PM # Q
I guess if I were actually "jealous" of any of those organizations, I'd go work for 'em: they've all made efforts to recruit me in the past year...

(I already did my ten years at Apple. I know how the place works, and I'm definitely happier doing what I'm doing now. Google is kinda like Apple without the style sense, and Microsoft is, well, in Washington... They also don't make a single product that holds any particular interest for me...)

By the way, Apple still has yet to place any orders for NAND parts in 2008, even though they're currently selling at or below cost. Why do you suppose that would be...?


RE: Apple iSDK: Is ACCESS scared?
mikecane @ 3/12/2008 9:33:33 AM # Q
>>>You, "MikeCane", need to develop some basic webiquette. You are posting rants, personal attacks and other obnoxious behavior that would not be tolerated in person. If you have something relevant to say, say it in a civil and rational manner.

Shut up, you moron. You don't get it. You're a stranger coming into a group of people who've known each other for some time and thinking they need some manners. What you're witnessing, you dimwit, is *familiarity*. And, unlike you, twerp, I use my real name online. What excuse do YOU have to hide?

Lefty - you should have taken them up on their job offers. ACCESS has no future. And, hey, if you don't like iTunes, why not switch to a Zune? Oh wait, you're not going to tell me a big, muscular haXXor such as yourself paid for AAC tracks? And what's a haXXor like you doing with either AAC or even MP3? I thought it was mandatory for you guys to use Ogg Vorbis! The Linux crowd will defrock you when they hear this!

RE: Apple iSDK: Is ACCESS scared?
TreoAnon @ 3/12/2008 11:06:33 AM # Q
"shut up you moron" is another example of behavior that would not be tolerated in person.
"What you're witnessing, you dimwit, is *familiarity*." is very disturbing statement that perhaps illuminates the underlying issue here. You should notice that your rants, personal attacks and name calling are generally one sided.

Stop the abuse!

RE: Apple iSDK: Is ACCESS scared?
BaalthazaaR @ 3/12/2008 11:37:53 AM # Q
TreoAnon, Mikie there feeds off of posts like this... Ignoring the ranting lunatic is the best way forward. Unless of course, you feel that the comments section is too quiet and you're baiting him.
RE: Apple iSDK: Is ACCESS scared?
mikecane @ 3/12/2008 1:47:00 PM # Q
>>>Stop the abuse!

Go home to your momma and cry to her.

Hey, lefty. Did you see this? -

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8aBByl9ZY4g

What's with the freakin two-second delay due to that shrinking screen? That's efficient design? Do you have any inkling how irritating power users will find that? And what size screen is that? The G area that comes up at one point looks squished.

Also, some questions: Is ALP only suited to phones? Is ACCESS only going after phones? I was wondering, since we're seeing cheap subnotebooks with flavors of Linux on them, if ACCESS had any appetite for that?

Video is the future, lefty: http://tinyurl.com/2s8abs

Tell your ACCESS masters they should be putting up some video demos. No one who isn't a dev wants to d/l an SDK.

RE: Apple iSDK: Is ACCESS scared?
akalefty @ 3/12/2008 6:06:20 PM # Q
Lefty - you should have taken them up on their job offers. ACCESS has no future.

So you keep on saying (without any particular supporting evidence, but hey!)

Thanks, but I'll manage my own career. But the very instant I need guidance from someone who's completely ignorant about both the technical and business issues relevant to my choice of prospective employers, I promise, you'll be the first person I think of.

And, hey, if you don't like iTunes, why not switch to a Zune?

Because it's an even worse device...? If I were going to switch to something (and I use the iPod because I was given it as a gift from some friends at Apple), it'd be to a Creative device (for the vastly superior sound quality).

Oh wait, you're not going to tell me a big, muscular haXXor such as yourself paid for AAC tracks?

No, Mike, I'm not. I haven't purchased a single AAC track, in fact. I told you: I've only bought DRM-free tracks, mostly from Amazon and eMusic, or taken MP3s off of CDs from my collection.

That's a nice strawman, though; does it take you a lot of effort to knock it down...?

And what's a haXXor like you doing with either AAC or even MP3? I thought it was mandatory for you guys to use Ogg Vorbis! The Linux crowd will defrock you when they hear this!

You seem to believe an awful lot of things which are demonstrably untrue. No, none of "the Linux crowd" has expressed the slightest bit of consternation or dismay over either the content of my music collection or the format of the data. You clearly don't seem to know much of anything about the open source community; I'm not sure where these fantasies about what is or isn't "mandatory" come from...

(You might note, for instance, that there are a good variety of open source programs to enable one to sync the MP3 files on one's iPod to a Linux desktop. A small amount of research can easily keep you from making yourself look foolish, you know.)

So what other kinds of ridiculous things do you imagine to be true...?

RE: Apple iSDK: Is ACCESS scared?
nastebu @ 3/12/2008 6:56:32 PM # Q
For what it's worth, the SDK had massive downloads. Here's an article: http://www.cnbc.com/id/23593709/site/14081545?__source=yahoo%7Cheadline%7Cquote%7Ctext%7C&par=yahoo

Whatever that means, it shows the degre of interest in the platform. If that many people are downloading the software development thing, there is clearly a market for the actual applications.

RE: Apple iSDK: Is ACCESS scared?
mikecane @ 3/13/2008 9:51:07 AM # Q
Yeah, lefty, go on, tell us all about the similar massive d/ling of the ACCESS SDK.

Or, you mean if I'd taken up your offer to d/l it, that would have doubled the total ... to two?

Poor lefty, it's so easy to bait him. So much fun to watch him jump on a soapbox and issue his "corrections" to what are obviously my I-don't-give-a-damn assertions.

If ACCESS had a future, lefty, you'd be too busy for this nonsense.

RE: Apple iSDK: Is ACCESS scared?
mikecane @ 3/13/2008 9:52:03 AM # Q
Notice he didn't answer the questions I posed about ALP?

RE: Apple iSDK: Is ACCESS scared?
nastebu @ 3/13/2008 12:20:32 PM # Q
Lefty, seriously, from the youtube video Mike posted, its hard to take Access seriously. The software looked good, but not very exciting. Even the interviewer, seemed to be giving it no more than polite attention, and the video has only 4800 downloads, which says something. Even if under the hood the software is much better than Apple's, ALP is starting from such a disadvantage in the market, it's hard to see how it can catch up.

And it's much worse for Palm. At least ALP has something decent to show. When is Nova supposed to be on an actual device? December at best? What will the market look like then? The iPhone with 10 million devices, lots of applications, and a year and a half of debugging. Android, ALP, and of course the Blackberry and WinMob. What a tough challenge Palm is up against.

RE: Apple iSDK: Is ACCESS scared?
akalefty @ 3/14/2008 2:17:08 AM # Q
Notice he didn't answer the questions I posed about ALP?

Sigh. Mike, make up your mind. Are you going to insist that I answer your questions in your unspecified timeframe, or are you going to insist that ACCESS is doomed and I'm "easy to bait" when I do respond to you...?

I actually do have plenty of other stuff to do: I've been involved in LiMo meetings as well as the Open Source in Mobile conference this past week; Saturday, I'm off to New York for the iPhone Developers' Summit, at which I'm presenting. Off to Korea the week after that.

So have it your way: I guess I am too busy to bother with you after all. Happy now?


RE: Apple iSDK: Is ACCESS scared?
mikecane @ 3/14/2008 9:56:27 AM # Q
Your sleight of hand is so frikkin transparent!

Hey, even a doubter like me at least *mentioned* ACCESS:

http://tinyurl.com/3ydy32

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