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    Comments on: New Major PalmSource Licensee Expected SoonDuring the company's fiscal fourth quarter conference call interim CEO Patrick McVeigh announced that PalmSource has signed a new "Tier 1" licensee.
Detailed Comment View (76 Total Comments)
The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. PIC is not responsible for them in any way. login or register for free in order to post comments.  What's a Tier 1Mr T @ 6/29/2005 6:32:14 PM #
What does a "Tier 1" licensee mean? Does it take a certain minimum number of sales to qualify?  RE: What's a
It means a real one I think. Tapwave, Garmin and Sony all show up on the list, but only ship 263 devices per year for a total profit after expenses of $11.95. About enough to get a Mexican lunch of the quick menu. :-) This is goot nooos tho! RE: What's a
When asked he stated Tier 1 meant one of the top five global handset producers. -Ryan webmaster@palminfocenter.com RE: What's a Tier 1
What are the top 5? Off the top of my head? Nokia RE: What's a Tier 1I.M Anonymous @ 6/29/2005 7:41:32 PM #
In 2004, the top 5 were: Nokia Now Samsung is already a licensee, and SonyEricsson and Nokia are both dedicated to Symbian, which would lead me to believe that it is either Motorola or Seimens. Personally, I am hoping it is Motorola, since I would love to see of PalmOS version of the WinMob Razr they just announced. RE: What's a Tier 1Timothy Rapson @ 6/29/2005 7:43:28 PM #
So the Yopi is finally going to ship with Palm OS instead of the Linux PDA they promised 5 years ago? Great news. I am buying Palm stock right away in big quantities at any price. These guys at TweedlePee and TweedlePalm are such rotten liars. RE: What's a Tier 1gfunkmagic @ 6/29/2005 10:55:10 PM #
OKay, here is a breakdown of the top 5 handset vendors: Nokia - will never be palmOS lisencee b/c have too much invested in Symbian Consortium (founding member and largest shareholder). Moto - possilbe, has hands in other 3 major smartphone platforms (M$ WM, Linux, Symbian) and thus could also lisence palmos. Furthermore, was once a palmos lisencee prior looong time ago I recall... Samsung - already Palmos lisencee... Siemens - recently sold off its handset business to Benq which is a MS WM lisencee based in Taiwan I believe. Recall Benq developed the WM based P50 Treo clone which just received FCC approval. I doubt Siemens, a founding member of Symbian Consortiums, wouls lisence palmos... Sony Ericcson - This would be a dream come true for PalmOS. Recall there were previous rumors of SE becoming a palmos lisencee back in 2003: http://www.brighthand.com/article/PalmSource_Talking_with_SonyEriccson Thus, it may indeed be possibility that this has finally happenned. Of course, Sony is already a palmos lisencee now!!! Finally, another OEM I would love to see lisence PalmOS is Sanyo!! They make great handsets and would seem a perfect fit for palmos IMO!!! -------------------- RE: What's a Tier 1I.M Anonymous @ 6/30/2005 1:14:54 PM #
In 2004 they were. I didn't have the 2005 list. RE: What's a Tier 1
I recall Sony saying some while ago that they would like to own Palm OS - it was in an article on The Reg. RE: What's a Tier 1Timothy Rapson @ 6/30/2005 3:32:46 PM #
Sony BUY PalmSource? You couldn't pay someone to take it. RE: What's a Tier 1AdamaDBrown @ 6/30/2005 6:04:50 PM #
Masamune, that was something like three years ago. RE: What's a Tier 1
Sony-Ericsson is also a member of the Symbian consortium. Before Ericsson and Sony decided to pool their loss-making mobile phone businesses into one, Ericsson joined the consortium. I can't see S-E going back to Palm now with so much invested in Symbian. It's a damn good OS. If I were a betting man I would say Motorola would be the more lilkely candidate. It's US owned, where Palm is still big, and they also have a habit of provinding handsets in all flavours, with Symbian and Windows Mobile. LG is a good possibility too. They don't have any smart-phones yet but are big in the 3G market now. Remember Symbian is still no. 1 in the world outside of America for phones. Unless a firm is trying to break into the US market or trying to expand their range ourtside of one supplier I don't think you'll see everyone jumping on the Palm bandwagon. Also look China. They are the second biggest mobile phone market now. It may be a local producer there. Mark RE: It's LG
Dammit, you beat me to it.
This is what I get for listening to Morrissey on my PC and not surfing... Ah well. Continue with your Death Pools, kids. 
SHARP
Probably Sharp. This looks like a new OS6, VGA PDA/Phone combo! http://www.churchoflivingfaith.com/images/sharpos6.jpg RE: SHARP
... That is unless he's referring to Samsung and the OS6 Treo Killer coming from them? http://www.churchoflivingfaith.com/images/samsungi750.JPG RE: SHARP
If you're going to photoshop a fake phone you should at least pick a model number that isn't already in use.
Motorola or Sony Ericsson
Since Samsung is already a licensee, I am guessing that either Motorola or Sony Ericsson is the new Palmsource licensee. If I had to pick one, I would go with Motorola. RE: Motorola or Sony EricssonTimothy Rapson @ 6/29/2005 7:47:00 PM #
It's Motorola. In fact, the last time this almost happened Sony put a Motorola ARM processor in one of the Clies instead if I recall. Moto has lisences for all the OS and has so far shipped practically Zero really smart full-featured OS models with any of them. Motorola was already once a PalmOS lisencee in the past...gfunkmagic @ 6/29/2005 10:46:35 PM #
If you recall Moto had been a palm os lisencee looong ago! In fact, Moto was once the supplier of old dragonball proc that powered palmos devices in pre OS 5.x era! Since then, Moto ended its lisencing agreement with Palm, became a founding member of the Symbian Consortium, then sold off it stake in Symbian while still retaining its lisence, proclaimed it's focus on supporting Linux as a future smartphone platform, and finally also became a Microsoft WM lisencee!!! Thus to summarize, Motorola has at one time or the other been involved in ALL major mobile platform OS's!!!! Heck if you recall, there was once even a rumor that moto and palm were working on a palmos-based smartphone a few years ago: http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=1261&MODE=FLAT If Moto does lisence palmos, then it would imo be a fitting culmination to a looong relationship that palmos has had with Moto over the years... -------------------- RE: Motorola or Sony Ericsson
Hmmm..., any connection?
"Linux moves into midrange Motorola phones" http://tinyurl.com/cpxjk
RE: Motorola? Doubtful.I.M Anonymous @ 6/29/2005 7:57:06 PM #
Hey, if Palm can do a WinMob Treo, Motorola can do a Palm Razr. RE: Motorola? Doubtful.gfunkmagic @ 6/29/2005 10:53:04 PM #
Nothing is doubtful... except trying to cite a source like msmobile for anything!! YUK!!! I support http://Tapland.com/ -------------------- RE: Motorola? Doubtful.
This would be a more likely candidate...and it's not the figment of a website admin's imagination. _________________ Sean There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. RE: Motorola? Doubtful.
Ooops....here's the link
http://promo.motorola.com/ProductPreviews/slvrV8.html _________________ Sean There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.
Worldwide Mobile Sales
Table 1 1Q05 Market 1Q04 Market Note* This table excludes ODM to OEM shipments. RE: Worldwide Mobile Sales - Tidied up table
Worldwide Mobile Terminal Sales to End-Users (thousands of units) 1Q05 Market 1Q04 Market Nokia: 54,943.1 (30.4) 44,259.1 (28.8) Note this table excludes ODM to OEM shipments. (I've taken the liberty of tidying up the table - I found it a touch difficult to decipher at first). so much for a nice looking table
Guess I've learned the hard way that the PIC comment parser isn't too keen on multiple spaces...
Oh well, we live and learn!
Nagel Redux
Announcing a Licensee is one thing. Having that Licensee actually produce a mass quantity of phones that are actually sold on the market is quite yet another. Don't get it twisted. My guess is that this is more of the same Nagel-esque type B.S. by McVeigh in order to prop up the stock price. At the end of the day, you or I will never see this phone in the flesh let alone be able to buy it. Where's Nagel's 11 Cobalt phones for 2005? Fool me once... RE: Nagel Redux
Ok, guys, don't argue now. I have inside information. Actually, two licenesees will be announced at the same time, they are: HP and DELL. RE: Nagel Redux
Gekko,
Relax. 6 months left in 2005 ... that's less than 2 new Cobalt devices per month. Should be no problem. :-o
Gain 1 licensee, lose 2. Easy come, easy go...The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/30/2005 1:42:03 AM #
Congrats on licensing ******** [edited], but they won't be shipping phones (i.e. won't be paying per-device license fees) for over a year. The baker's dozen of PalmOS licensees dips to 11 but then skyrockets to 12. Woo hoo! High five Nagel! The Motley Crue of PalmOS licencees (a.k.a. the Lucky 13 Gang™): Aceeca - Who? Don't make us laugh. AlphaSmart - Aquired by Renaissance Learning in June 2005, PalmOS contract now cancelled. (How come it's so easy for companies to get out of their contracts with PalmOS? Remember how easily Sony dumped PalmOS overnight with NO financial penalty?) Fossil - Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha. Ha. Garmin - Will they ever ship another PalmOS device or is it only Windows from now on? GSPDA - Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha. Ha. Some of the worst built phones I've ever seen. A fitting choice to introduce the first "official" Cobalt device. Kyocera - Any new products in the past 4 years, guys? Lenovo - More fun and games in Beijing. Shiping squat. palmOne - Wisely shunned Cobullt (PalmOS 6), need to release a Windows Mobile Treo 700, but also need to buy PalmSource back for $50 - $75 million in 2006. PiTech - a tiny ODM wannabe that makes nothing you can buy. Samsung - purveyor of a full lineup of Vaporware PalmOS Smartphones. At least they sell phones in China, though. Sony - Currently PalmSource is receiving ever-diminishing revenues from this so-called "licensee". Less than $200,000 per quarter for shipping nothing. Why even bother keeping Sony on the list of "licensees"? Because it looks good, that's why. Symbol Technologies - shipping ancient (1999-vintage) hardware in low quantities, but has been a good licensee. Tapwave - RIP. Soon to be a "former" licensee. The Palm Economy = Communism™ RE: Gain 1 licensee, lose 2. Easy come, easy go...gfunkmagic @ 6/30/2005 3:05:41 AM #
>>>>>lphaSmart - Aquired by Renaissance Learning in June 2005, PalmOS contract now cancelled. Where did you read this? Please provide a link to substantiate. AFAIK, Renaissance Learning, Inc/Alphasmart will continue to lisence PalmOS for the Dana line... -------------------- RE: Gain 1 licensee, lose 2. Easy come, easy go...The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/30/2005 3:09:15 AM #
The PalmOS contract was bought out. It is unknown what the new parent company will do at this point in time. You can confirm this with PalmSource yourself. Or do I have to spoonfeed/breastfeed you some more? ------------------------ Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted. ------------------------ The Palm Economy = Communism™ RE: Gain 1 licensee, lose 2. Easy come, easy go...
>>The PalmOS contract was bought out. Ahh - but thyatb is completely different then : >>PalmOS contract now cancelled. In fact - given that you obviously have a brain and that you obviously have a lot of time to kill coming up with propaganda for this site (such as this post above) - that would make you a liar. Further - Garmin has put another Palm OS unit since introducing it's Pocket PC unit. RE: Gain 1 licensee, lose 2. Easy come, easy go...
What has Garmin put out recently? They did the 320*480 3600 unit--nice first try but had some bugs and was way overdue to hit the market. How overdue? It was originally slated to have Graffiti 1 onboard, that's how overdue it was! Then they did the quick stopgap of the 320*320 3200 model which was otherwise identical to the 3600. AFAIK the 3200 has already been put out to pasture and Officemax now has the 3600 on clearance starting this week. Not a good sign if you ask me. I know that Garmin did a PPC-based 3600 variant and then a newer unit recently...I would imagine they will try to liquidate existing stocks of the 3600 and just quietly fade away. The Voice makes a good point. Of all of the licensees mentioned above, the only one shipping NEW product to US retail (still the lion's share of where where people get PDAs/Smartphones) is P1. Symbol will probably milk their PIII/m500 era tech as long as humanly possible but I wouldn't anticipate them putting any $ into future POS development. So short of buying a new P1 device, your best chance to see POS in action is to sign for a DHL or UPS package. Tragic.. I would assume that Motorola is the new licensee. It would make MORE sense to get a strong asian company with strong ties to the SD consortium *COUGH*, Matsu****a or Toshiba, *COUGH* who could use their leverage to get things like OLED screens etc. Toshiba should can their partnership with Audiovox (ugly, cheap feeling and cheaply built handsets), pick up PalmSource & P1 in one fell swoop, and use their expertise & $ to get a new generation of Treos & GigaBeat/LifeDrive mobile media devices out. Now THAT'D be a nice lineup! RE: Gain 1 licensee, lose 2. Easy come, easy go...
I think the reference was to the 3600a aviation model which is their most recent release. It comes with custom cradle hardware with integrated controls, and aviation tailored software. http://www.garmin.com/products/iQue3600a/ RE: Gain 1 licensee, lose 2. Easy come, easy go...
In additions to the lies you guys have already found, here's something else VoR doesn't know. Aceeca is actually doing very, very well in vertical markets. There's still a lot of industrial use for OS4 devices and they're cleaning up. VoR's nothing but a troll trying to boost his own self-image. Give him the attention he deserves. Nothing. RE: Gain 1 licensee, lose 2. Easy come, easy go...
Ah Kirvin. I have something here you are allergic to - Numbers. In Q1 PalmSource shipped 1,131,310 OS licenses. PalmOne shipped 1,009,040 units. That leaves 122,270 devices to share amongst the 10 other licensees. What's that? 12 000 each? They must be doing VERY WELL. http://www.palmzone.net/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=477 Surur RE: Gain 1 licensee, lose 2. Easy come, easy go...
As others have pointed out, Sony and Kyocera aren't shipping too many devices at all these days. I know Aceeca is doing well in the industrial market. Those 12,000 per company aren't distributed evenly. VoR dismissed them, and I pointed out that he doesn't know what he's talking about. You, Surur are a banned Pocket PC troll, so we really have no reason to believe anything you tell us. You're about as antagonistically biased as can be. Why you're so insecure about your own platform is an excellent question that I suspect has a very telling explanation. RE: Gain 1 licensee, lose 2. Easy come, easy go...The_Voice_of_Reason @ 7/1/2005 3:36:46 AM #
In additions to the lies you guys have already found, here's something else VoR doesn't know. Aceeca is actually doing very, very well in vertical markets. There's still a lot of industrial use for OS4 devices and they're cleaning up. VoR's nothing but a troll trying to boost his own self-image. Give him the attention he deserves.
Nothing. As others have pointed out, Sony and Kyocera aren't shipping too many devices at all these days. I know Aceeca is doing well in the industrial market. Those 12,000 per company aren't distributed evenly. VoR dismissed them, and I pointed out that he doesn't know what he's talking about.
The fact that PalmSource spent even five minutes interviewing you for a position (even if it was for the job of Pastry Chef) shows how far out of touch with reality they've become.
The Palm Economy = Communism™
Motorola & Treo
If I'm not wrong (which I may very well be), Motorola makes the phone components for Treos, right? So P1/PS and Motorola already have some business going on.. RE: Motorola & Treo
Maybe true, but Sony has chips in Pocket PCs too. That does not mean that Moto wants to market a Palm OS phone tho. I hope they do market a RAZRPalm phone with HVGA, BT, OS6 and I'll be showin em the $$$. Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com RE: Motorola & Treo
THAT might actually make me embrace convergence. But only if well executed and the features (i.e. Memory, or card slot) are there.
_________________ Sean There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.
Why not Apple ?
Tier 1 but Tier 1 of what .... If it is handheld devices it could be iPod ?? Furthermore, Apple will announce something on July 7th ! It would be a good thing an Apple PDA :) JP RE: Why not Apple ?
Hmm, how'bout Motorola Cobalt iTunes combo? ;) Yummy mix isn't it? LiveFaith, could you give us a sneak peak into visual side of this thing once again? ;) RE: Why not Apple ? BECAUSE...
...in the conference call [Palmsource CEO] McVeigh did say that the company is one of the top five global handset providers. And last time I checked Apple didn't manufacture any mobile handsets, much less be amongst the top five of handset providers. I also doubt that PalmSource dropping support for the Mac in Cobalt endeared Apple to the idea of becoming a PalmSource licensee on a whim anytime soon. Quite frankly, with PalmSource's market cap of $158m and Apple having $7 billion dollars cash in the bank, if Apple desperately needed anything from PalmSource it's more likely to buy it. However when you consider: I don't think there's anything PalmSource can bring to Apple's table. RE: Why not Apple ?
Is APPL top 5 in anything besides inspiration? Here ya go texonite ... the hens are coming home to roost. :-)
RE: Why not Apple ?
LiveFaith said: Is APPL top 5 in anything besides inspiration? http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/apr/13results.html compare with: In other words Apple has shipped more iPods alone in three months than PalmOne has sold devices in a whole year. I think it can be safely said Apple is in the top 5 of mp3 player shippers! The question we should all be asking is what can the new PalmSource licensee to for the Palm OS world? RE: Why not Apple ?
Pat, you should've used Cobalt screenshot - that's almost my dream-device.;-) Cmon, I'm waiting for you! Cobalt, come here! RE: Why not Apple ?
Good answer Chia. Forgot about that music thingy they sell. :-o Tex, Cobalt sounds like it is OVER. Plinux will have it for smartphones, but the PDA Cobalt will never see the light of day it seems. :-( What could have been ... RE: Why not Apple ?
representing a 43 percent increase in [Macintosh] CPU units and a 558 percent increase in iPods
and I'll just add that increases like that are not just PalmOne's but every PC manufacturer's wet dream in this current market!
Symbol IS MotorolaTimothy Rapson @ 6/30/2005 9:00:15 AM #
I have had a new thought on this. I am a letter carrier. Our current handheld scanners are made by Legend, the huge Chinese computer maker. We are supposed to get new ones any time now. Anyway, I would be happy to find that our new scannners (some 800,000 of them) are going to be PalmOS. Maybe I can beam my own apps to it and won't have to carry my scanner AND my Zire all day at work. .....Yes, I know that is not going to happen, just joking. Between Symbol and Motorola, there is a LOT of knowhow available. Motorola has made all the hardware you could imagine for the mobile world, right down to their ARM processor. Symbol has made all sorts of specialty model adaptations for many markets, though mostly vertical (remember "verticle" markets? the buzzword of the late 1990s. Whatever happened to that?) I wonder if Legend might qualify as a top teir producer? The probably OEM smartphone models for many of the top 5 though they don't put their names on any at the consumer level. RE: Symbol IS Motorola
Motorola has not bought Symbol. There's no documentation of a deal like that on the Motorola site, the Symbol site, or in any financial news site I checked. I think it's more likely that the wireless networks that your scanners will support will be supplied by Motorola. RE: Symbol IS MotorolaTimothy Rapson @ 6/30/2005 3:48:31 PM #
Thanks Bcombee. It looks like I missunderstood the Moto/Symbol connection when I was trying to figure out why they were calling our new scanners Motos when they are obviously Symbols (by looks) I guess they just partnered for this product. Anyway, my point stands. This will be Motorola and I would guess that Symbol will also partner with them on the design and manufacture of this new product which will surely be a smartphone. I could go for PalmOS in one of those clamshell PPC models Moto recently dropped before ever shipping in volume due to design flaws (too slow, low battery life, etc.) HTC is going to slaughter Motorola if they go head to head in PPC PE (Or whatever they are calling it these days) OS phones. The Motos look great at shows, but they don't work or sell well at the store counter. RE: Symbol IS Motorola
>>"I wonder if Legend might qualify as a top teir producer?"<<
Hmm...I don't remember Legend making phones, but IIRC, Legend became Lenovo, and Lenovo is now going to be........IBM. Yuk. I can't wait to get my IBM branded e-machine. There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.
RE: Could it be RIM?
What would possibly motivate RIM in such a direction right now? They are currently #1, and have a compelling new CrackBerry unit out right now. They don't NEED Palm. Palm, OTOH, is badly in need of BBConnect, which, while on one or two items in the Asian market, is basically vaporware anywhere else.
_________________ Sean There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.
RE: Not Moto
Not gonna be BenQ. Acer=BenQ and they just settled a very nasty round of litigation/bickering with Palm(source). IIRC, Acer just shipped one or two Palm-based handhelds back in '02 for Asian markets only. LG is a good possibility. Make way for a Zenith-badged smartphone, gang! (just kidding, btw). Pat--you could have some fun photoshopping that one, huh? Put a 160*160 mono screen on top of an old Zenith Space Command remote control and have a stub antenna sticking out of the top...
New Palm OS LicenseeBungalow Bill @ 7/1/2005 10:33:13 AM #
The top three are certain:
1) Nokia Moto & Samsung, however are always seemingly only a few points of market share apart. The next two are a toss-up due to constantly changing market share and the sale of Siemens to BenQ, etc. LG is probably number 4, although Siemens/BenQ could be as well as Sony Ericsson. Sony Ericsson is on a nice upswing right now, while LG which was doing really well for several quarters seems to have slowed down a bit...and Siemens which was struggling and sold its handset division to BenQ was likely not in the top 5 as of the last quarter. I believe BenQ is already a Palm licensee and I believe Sony, one of the two parents of Sony Ericsson is already a licensee (although I don't know if that license automatically covers Sony Ericsson). Nokia signed a license agreement with Palm a long time ago (about 5 years ago?), so they are probably not the one. It would be interesting if it was Motorola as Moto has talked about its OS strategy being a two-pronged strategy with Microsoft and Linux as its two operating systems of choice. With Palm moving to a Linux platform, this might make a lot of sense for Motorola and would make the Palm OS more attractive for them. However, LG lacks any sort of real Smartphone product, so they could be interested in jump-starting their high-end handset portfolio with a Palm OS device...
SHOCKING Revelation about Palm and Nokia
Nokia and Palm Computing ally to develop a new pen-based product category for smart phones October 13, 1999 http://press.nokia.com/PR/199910/775579_5.html I found this when looking for info about Nokia being a Palmsource licensee. The question is whether any of this agreement is still in place and honoured by Palmsource/Palmone or if it was cancelled when Palm was spun off from 3com. RE: SHOCKING Revelation about Palm and NokiaBungalow Bill @ 7/1/2005 12:16:35 PM #
Nice bit of research on finding that! I'm sure both companies would have preferred to let that one stay in the dustbin of history. Yeah, I wonder if/how Symbian benefitted from that agreement and if/how Palm could extract anything from that agreement to help itself today. RE: SHOCKING Revelation about Palm and Nokia
This is not shocking at all, except to those who haven't been to this site for the past several years. This is the infamous PalmOS-GUI-on-EPOC/Symbian agreement that was covered here at PIC way back then. Nothing came of it. And that's not a shock, either. RE: SHOCKING Revelation about Palm and Nokia
Yeah, what Mike said. Remember, despite "Palm" (either of 'em) being basically an also-ran, laughing stock of the mobile industry in THIS millennium, back in '97-'99, people couldn't associate themselves with Palm/3com fast enough. Palm and its Zen were the darlings of the tech industry, especially in light of the mountain of flops throughout the 80s & 90s for portable computing/PDA-style devices.
Just look though the archives to see the the slew of vaporware announcements and "partnerships" that were announced in the golden years of POS with little of significance--or simply nothing at all--coming to fruition (Palm w/ Compaq, Palm w/ Moto, Palm w/ Nokia, Palm w/ Acer, Palm w/ Kodak, Palm w/ IBM etc etc)
BOO!!!
I was momentarily excited, thinking a new big company was going to fill Sony's niche. (How about Dell! Toshiba, ANYONE.)
But nope, just another stupid "smart phone". Whoop de do.
RE: Apparently LG Electronics is the new LicenseeGalley_SimRacer @ 7/6/2005 10:15:50 AM #
I read the same thing elsewhere. -- "I'm not a cool person in real life, but I play one on the Internet". Galley RE: Apparently LG Electronics is the new Licensee
Don't be surprised if, by the time the smoke clears two or three years from now, a Korean or Chinese entity ends up picking up all of the Palm Pieces (OS & hardware) for a relative pittance.
I've never been a fan of their cellphones but LG's recent consumer electronics (TVs especially) offer a tremendous bang for the buck and pretty nifty styling too---even decent remote controls.
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