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Comments on: LG Electronics Licensees the Palm OS

PalmSource today announced that LG Electronics has signed an agreement to license Palm OS worldwide. Under terms of the agreement, LG Electronics can develop and market smartphones based on Palm OS.
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Just like Samsung

Timothy Rapson @ 7/6/2005 1:09:17 PM # Q
Most every LG phone I have ever seen looked just like Samsungs. They are most often in the US (afaik) rebranded by the phone companies, so they don't even say LG on them.

I suppose it is possible that something good would come of this, but I don't see "Samsung lite" as likely to produce any surprises.

RE: Just like Samsung
cypher76 @ 7/6/2005 1:20:52 PM # Q
Your post is completely untrue. I've never seen a rebranded LG, just look at Verizon and Cingular's websites. They both feature LG phones, all featuring the LG name and logo. Some LG and Samsung models have similar features and looks, but many are distinctively different. Samsung has no models that can compare to the LG VX8000 or VX4650/VX4700 on Verizon, or the F9100 on Cingular. With the broad variety of regular mobile phones LG offers, I have a lot of faith in the diversity they can bring to the Palm platform.

RE: Just like Samsung
siralien @ 7/6/2005 2:18:23 PM # Q
Very good phones, especially in the 3G lineup which they seem to dominate in Europe and Asia-Pacific. Have had two now. Bought one while in Russia and the build was excellent. All metal, red colour and wonderful quality.

Appreciate the similarity with Samsung phones but they are direct competitors in the same market. Never seen an LG rebranded under another brand. Could happen, but never seen it. Would cause too much confusion. If rebranding does happen it would be in a market where LG isn't selling directly.

I hope to see a 3G phone here on '3' or 'Vodafone' soon with Palm OS-Linux or Cobalt.

Mark

RE: Just like Samsung
siralien @ 7/6/2005 2:18:23 PM # Q
Very good phones, especially in the 3G lineup which they seem to dominate in Europe and Asia-Pacific. Have had two now. Bought one while in Russia and the build was excellent. All metal, red colour and wonderful quality.

Appreciate the similarity with Samsung phones but they are direct competitors in the same market. Never seen an LG rebranded under another brand. Could happen, but never seen it. Would cause too much confusion. If rebranding does happen it would be in a market where LG isn't selling directly.

I hope to see a 3G phone here on '3' or 'Vodafone' soon with Palm OS-Linux or Cobalt.

Mark

Yeah, probably.
Timothy Rapson @ 7/7/2005 11:22:51 AM # Q
" RE: Just like Samsung
cypher76 @ 7/6/2005 1:20:52 PM #

Your post is completely untrue."

Yes, it probably is. I don't have a cell phone and I don't even play someone who has one on TV. I really have almost zero experience with one. Oh, my wife has a Nokia Tracphone and that is about it.

So, I did post fast enough off the top of my head to get "first post" LOL.

Reply to this comment

Let's see those phones!

heavyduty @ 7/6/2005 1:06:03 PM # Q
Hopefully LG already has a Palm phone or two up their sleeves, developed and ready to be launched soon.
If not, the wait might be too long, especially if we have to wait until the PalmLinux phones arrive in a couple of years...

Palm Vx (a classic) -> Palm 505 (yawn...) -> Dell Axim (slooow...!) -> Palm TE (great) -> Qtek 9090 (lousy sound quality) -> Nokia 6630 (a toy) -> SP3i (not bad) -> Treo 650 (awesome)
RE: Let's see those phones!
SeldomVisitor @ 7/6/2005 1:24:32 PM # Q
There is NO WAY LG has a phone ready to go if the wording of the PR-fluff announcing this is any clue at all.

That is, (1) this is THE "tier 1" deal PSRC talked about and (2) it is a recent deal.

It takes a finite amount of time to develop and debug a phone/pda.

RE: Let's see those phones!
LiveFaith @ 7/6/2005 1:49:41 PM # Q
Here is the first one that I've seen. The LG 600i. Looks like it will definitely be Cobalt and have either on-screen or rear slide out keypad. These guys are on the ball!

http://www.churchoflivingfaith.com/images/lg600i.jpg



Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Let's see those phones!
Scott R @ 7/6/2005 1:56:37 PM # Q
Well that's the big question. Was this announcement delayed for competitive reasons with LG already ready to release something, or does this announcement signal that they're just about to start developing some new devices, in which case the end result will be a long ways off?

http://Tapland.com
- Tapwave Zodiac News, Reviews, & Discussion -
RE: Let's see those phones!
Timothy Rapson @ 7/6/2005 4:06:27 PM # Q
Livefaith you are insane!

It never fails to make me laugh.

RE: Let's see those phones!
treo007 @ 7/6/2005 4:23:30 PM # Q
Actually Livefaith, I'm not sure I why you keep posting those dumb mockups (it wasn't even funny the first time).

And the two times I've accidently clicked on the link the jesus freak website, it crashed Mozilla. Thanks....

RE: Let's see those phones!
twrock @ 7/6/2005 7:15:59 PM # Q
What "recipe" of Mozilla are you using? Firefox running on Windows works fine. I can't imagine why a link to a JPG would crash Mozilla.

I'm still waiting for the mythical "color HandEra."
RE: Let's see those phones!
twrock @ 7/6/2005 7:29:58 PM # Q
Oops, sorry, may bad. Just noticed you weren't talking about the link to the JPG.

I'm still waiting for the mythical "color HandEra."
RE: Let's see those phones!
LiveFaith @ 7/7/2005 9:47:29 AM # Q
treo007,

Then don't worry about that big tip to my PayPal account. I'll let you view for free even if it is a mistake.

By the way, I would upgrade that FF browser to 1.004 from the beta version you must be using. ChurchofLivingFaith.com doesn't even crash Netscape 6.0.


Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

Disagree on both counts
Timothy Rapson @ 7/7/2005 11:42:26 AM # Q
RE:" treo007 @ 7/6/2005 4:23:30 PM #

Actually Livefaith, I'm not sure I why you keep posting those dumb mockups (it wasn't even funny the first time).

And the two times I've accidently clicked on the link the jesus freak website, it crashed Mozilla. Thanks...."

My Mozilla doesn't crach on LiveFaith's but I suggest my common sollution to the "jesus freak" trouble. USE WINDOWS! See that window over your shoulder? If you come across and idea or site you don't find interesting, useful, or nice, just look out that window while you browser takes you away from it. You need not come back here and whine about it......or go ahead and express your dislike....I can alway look the other way if your post bore me as LiveFaith's seem to bore you......yet, you keep reading them, don't you?

Those mockups are a gas. Keep it up, LF.

RE: Let's see those phones!
heavyduty @ 7/7/2005 12:38:19 PM # Q
[Getting back on topic again....]

Personally I believe LG will introduce a device sooner rather than later ("sooner" = compared to the two-year PalmLinux transition). I doubt they (Palm + LG) would announce something like that now, only to wait a couple of years until they have something to show for it.

Palm Vx (a classic) -> Palm 505 (*yawn*) -> Dell Axim (slooow...) -> Palm TE (great) -> Qtek 9090 (great idea, lousy platform) -> Nokia 6630 (a toy) -> iMate SP3i (not bad) -> Treo 650 (almost perfect)

RE: Let's see those phones!
treo007 @ 7/7/2005 1:44:23 PM # Q
Rapson: You must find Jerry Lewis and Carrot Top funny as well. And go re-read the post, ACCIDENTALLY clicked on. You think I WANTED to go to the site he pimps here? It really belongs on a PDA website no doubt. Unless of course Jesus has come back to give us his opinion of Palmsource's shift to Linux.

Live Faith: No, I'm using the most recent, and non-beta version. It crashes it on 2 separate computers. Your coding sucks as bad as sense of humor.

RE: Let's see those phones!
LiveFaith @ 7/7/2005 3:02:16 PM # Q
15,000 +/- hits and the only 2 known crashes are from James Bond. Hmmm, sorry about the inconvenience. Site coded in M$ Frontpage probably explains it.

PS, my faith is not strong enough to be believe the "accidental" clicks ... inquiring minds must wanna know. :-D

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Let's see those phones!
treo007 @ 7/7/2005 3:53:29 PM # Q
Or do you mean the only two crashes that were reported? Face it, your site sucks as bad as your mockups.

And yea, both accidental clicks to the jesus pimping website (wouldn't shock me by the way to find out that you have a section for "donations" on there) came from attempting to click your lame mockups. Now I know better.

RE: Let's see those phones!
Wollombi @ 7/7/2005 5:58:22 PM # Q
Treo007, you're COMPLETELY OUT OF LINE. If you don't like Pat's "artwork", fine. If you don't like his faith, fine. But stop attacking him just because you disagree with his faith. Most of your accusations are totally unfounded to say the least.

Pat, I believe I've mentioned having problems before with Firefox on your website, but I went there again, and the fphover applet seems to wreak havoc. I had to close down Firefox and end task the process in Windows before I could use it again. You may want to look into it.

Back on topic, Let's see some LG tech wizardry!

_________________
Sean

There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.

RE: Let's see those phones!
treo007 @ 7/7/2005 6:41:10 PM # Q
Wollombi: Wow, thanks for 1) your self righteous post. We needed your conscience here to tell us who is and isn't "OUT OF LINE!!"..hehe. Jerry Springer called and said he's reserving an audience member spot for you now.

and

2) for confirming that I was indeed correct regarding the site and it's compatibility. Which was one of the original points that I was derided on so vehemently by LF and his side kick Rapson.

RE: Let's see those phones!
Timothy Rapson @ 7/7/2005 9:58:30 PM # Q
Look Wolombi and Treo, we know who you are with your satanic browser and you evil cult that comes here spreading lies about Jesus. Now, don't make us come over there in spirit and kick your spiritual buts.
FireFox. Yeah, we know where fire comes from....could it be......SATAN!

Yes, I am kidding. I actually miss all the scraps like this little distraction from the old days of anonymous posting here.

I liked Livefaith's site, have no problems with it using Mozilla, and still find his fotos fun. Sorry you don't.

Life goes on.


So, does anyone know anything about LG's lineup. I am following threads here, at Brighthand, and at BargainPDA about this move and have yet to see a good link to the models most likely to show up with Palm OS first. Anyone?

RE: Let's see those phones!
treo007 @ 7/7/2005 11:58:57 PM # Q
Cool, thanks for your sense of humor Rapson. Yes, I'm being serious, I actually laughed...Reasonable people CAN disagree.

As to potential LG phones, don't they have one with a horizontal qwerty slider? That would make a perfect Palm OS phone.

RE: Let's see those phones!
LiveFaith @ 7/8/2005 12:11:04 PM # Q
Hey Treo! Don't get back on topic and actually put something of value in here.

Yeah, what he said. We want an inquisition to slay all destractors and empty their PayPal accounts thru a donations page. That'll make em' all believe! :-o

... oooh, I guess I need to uninstall that FF browser now? :-(

... and by the way, I think this is an upcoming LG phone.
http://www.churchoflivingfaith.com/images/lg600i.jpg

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Let's see those phones!
treo007 @ 7/8/2005 1:13:54 PM # Q
LF, couldn't leave well enough alone could you? I'll try to take the high road here.

RE: Let's see those phones!
sr4 @ 7/8/2005 1:53:31 PM # Q

LF, I hope he doesn't complain to Ryan and have you banned :)

Its funny how you can find one person who is always rubbed the wrong way.

Surur

RE: Let's see those phones!
treo007 @ 7/8/2005 2:07:30 PM # Q
Hey Surer, save it. I wasn't "rubbed the wrong way".

I made comments that 1) the mockups are old and tired, and 2) the linking of his site (which really doesn't belong here anyway) causes mine and apparently some other folks browsers to crash.

No one's trying to get anyone "banned". I could care less, but apparently you couldn't resist chiming in with your poignant commentary. How original....

RE: Let's see those phones!
sr4 @ 7/8/2005 2:49:22 PM # Q
What you don't get is that LF and his mock-ups is practically an institution here.

Have some respect, man!

Surur

RE: Let's see those phones!
treo007 @ 7/8/2005 5:52:28 PM # Q
Or so says you, Surer. If it's true, then the emperor clearly has no clothes.

Respect? For what? Call a spade a spade.

Meanwhile, back on the ranch...
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 7/9/2005 1:36:38 PM # Q
Hopefully LG already has a Palm phone or two up their sleeves, developed and ready to be launched soon.
If not, the wait might be too long, especially if we have to wait until the PalmLinux phones arrive in a couple of years...

Now that those two yappy puppies are through with their little pi$$ing match (both lost, by the way) perhaps the rest of us can continue with a more mature discussion. Next time both of them will get a swat on the nose with a rolled-up newspaper...

LG is a huge company and has several phones that could easily be adapted to become low to mid-range "Below Average to Average Intelligence"Phones™. Now that Handspring brilliantly hacked PalmOS 5 into a stable SmartPhone OS, most of the hard work has been done. Any decent-sized handset maker could put out an IQ100Phone™ (or even an IQ70Phone™ [featurephone]) within six months. If LG is smart, they will AIM LOW. A small, light, attractively-styled $100 - $200 PalmOS IQ100Phone would be able to tap a potentially HUGE market.

TVoR



------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

LiveFaith: please keep 'em comming
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 7/9/2005 1:55:43 PM # Q
Your designs are much appreciated. Especially the Treo 800g (your finest hour). It's sad that your designs are almost always better than anything Palm comes up with.


http://churchoflivingfaith.com/images/treo800g.jpg

http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7073#96697

TVoR



------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

RE: Let's see those phones!
treo007 @ 7/10/2005 12:00:25 AM # Q
From the master of the mature discussion...knew you were just twitching to chime in. I find it hilarious yet not at all surprising you consider yourself the real judge as to 'who won'.

Do you do anything but post here on every single topic? It's ok to get yourself out of the house every now and then.

Reply to this comment

Garnet or Cobalt?

Gekko @ 7/6/2005 1:21:28 PM # Q

If and when LG ever does produce a PalmOS phone, will they use Garnet or Cobalt? And why?



RE: Garnet or Cobalt?
cervezas @ 7/6/2005 1:43:09 PM # Q
My guess is Cobalt, if only because of the timing. If this were happening in 2004 before the Linux announcement you might figure they'd go with the tried-and-true Garnet as palmOne did with the Treos. And if this were happening in 2006 you'd figure they wanted to be first on the Palm OS for Linux platform. But in July 2005, knowing what they know about PalmSource's new focus on Linux, it makes sense for a licensee to do all the phone app and customization work on an API that's moving forward onto Linux, and that would be Cobalt.

It's not clear from the announcement what the term of the license is, but unless they're just planning a one-off they're going to be looking for how they can transition smoothly going forward. Garnet would not be a smart choice--not for a phone handset manufacturer.

The other reason to guess they might be planning to go with Cobalt is that Cobalt is designed to scale down to small form factors that are more popular as handsets. Look at that Oswin Cobalt phone with the 240x320 display, for example. It looks more like a Nokia phone than a Treo and is likely to strike down in the broader mid-level market instead of just the high end.

People talk about how Cobalt is stillborn, but frankly I think the recent announcements are more of a sign that Garnet is entering its end of life cycle.

It's all speculation, but that's my guess.


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com

RE: Garnet or Cobalt?
neuron @ 7/6/2005 4:03:39 PM # Q
That's it, guys. Cobalt is alread dead now. Only Garnet and PLinux are there. Discussing garnet or Cobalt may make more sense two weeks ago, but not any more.

RE: Garnet or Cobalt?
mikecane @ 7/6/2005 5:36:24 PM # Q
Garnet 6.0!!!

Be afraid.

Be VERY afraid!

RE: Garnet or Cobalt?
Gekko @ 7/6/2005 7:41:01 PM # Q

>Cobalt is already dead now.

"Sometimes dead is better."

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098084/

RE: Garnet or Cobalt?
Scott R @ 7/7/2005 1:48:59 PM # Q
There's another possibility: They could be using that feature-phone nonsense with the Palm OS "look and feel" with none of the app compatibility (other than PIM data beaming). Wouldn't *that* be a letdown?

http://Tapland.com
- Tapwave Zodiac News, Reviews, & Discussion -
RE: Garnet or Cobalt?
Admin @ 7/7/2005 1:53:45 PM # Q
I asked PalmSource about which version of the Palm OS LG licensed, and the response was that neither company is disclosing it.
RE: Garnet or Cobalt?
AdamaDBrown @ 7/7/2005 4:59:51 PM # Q
Which means one of two possible things. One is that they haven't decided yet, which means that they haven't even started serious development. Two is that they've licensed Garnet, and neither company wants to admit it. My money is on the latter.

RE: Garnet or Cobalt?
Scott R @ 7/7/2005 9:53:44 PM # Q
AdamaDBrown, I was thinking this as well, except that I'd modify your #2 choice to include the possibility that they're planning to release some lame feature-phone device.

http://Tapland.com
- Tapwave Zodiac News, Reviews, & Discussion -
RE: Garnet or Cobalt?
neuron @ 7/7/2005 11:09:11 PM # Q
AdamaDBrown, may I repeat your words in one sentence? That is: If LG is licenced Cobalt, both PS and LG will speak it LOUDLY.

RE: Garnet or Cobalt?
ackmondual @ 7/7/2005 11:30:25 PM # Q
os5 or os6? Dunno. Maybe both but pirated versions?

[signature0]
the secret to enjoying your job is to have a hobby that's even worse
[/signature0]

[signature1]
My PDAs: Visor --> Visor Neo (blue) --> Zire 71 --> Tungsten T3 (with 5 of 6 screws still remaining) --> zodiac 2?
[/signature1]

RE: Garnet or Cobalt?
hkklife @ 7/8/2005 12:41:06 AM # Q
My guess? After seeing the bloated mess of a crazy quilt that Garnet has become at the hands of P1, LG are going to either:

1. License OS 5.2 and do all of their "own" band-aid applying to it, hoping for better results than P1's had in the past year+.

2. Fool around with some Garnet AND Cobalt devices that never see the light of day (for the sake of getting their feet wet) and then either bail on their POS license (while paying dearly to exit the contract) OR waiting to see how PalmLinux fares. Remember, LG is flush with cash these days and can afford to sit around for a while until they figure out what to do with their license.

As I said earlier, they may buy PalmSource/P1/both, pare 'em down to the bare minimum, and go it alone. "Zenith" and "Palm" make for nice'n easy ways to the hearts & minds of American consumers (ie the path of least resistance)...Why? Well, there are still some that can recall the atrociously cheap VCRs Goldstar foistered onto the marketplace back in the '80's. It's easier to just buy up the rights to a defunct/dying brand name that's still recognizeable rather than fight tooth and nail to build up your brand (like it's taken ~20 years for Samsung to do).

RE: Garnet or Cobalt?
sr4 @ 7/8/2005 2:38:47 AM # Q
I would have though, considering Palmsource's situation, unless LG's lawyers are stupid, they would have gotten very attractive terms with plenty of get-out clauses.

Surur

RE: Garnet or Cobalt?
hkklife @ 7/8/2005 9:58:57 AM # Q
Surur's right. Probably plenty of get-out/exit clauses BUT with a substantial bit of upfront money. PalmSource gets a much-needed cash infusion right away, some much-needed publicty from media coverage, so really what LG ends up doing down the road is a secondary issue to PalmSource's pressing short-term concerns.

WHAT if a newly hacked-up version of Garnet is in the works? Sorta like a Garnet/Cobalt hybrid. I don't mean the under-the-hood bits & pieces of Cobalt that have appeared in recent P1 devices. I mean an honest to goodness Garnet.5 type release. No multi-tasking etc, but with better security, wireless support, NVFS management, fonts etc. Kind of like how Win ME was to Win 98 (bugginess aside, hopefully) when M$ realized they couldn't get XP out in 2000.

RE: Garnet or Cobalt?
Scott R @ 7/8/2005 10:12:44 AM # Q
If they're coming out with anything real soon, I think it's a safe bet that it's either Garnet or the feature-phone stuff PalmSource got from CMS (assuming that's stable - I think it could be since they were supposedly getting a workable platform now and just slapping the Palm OS skin on it, right?).

If their plans are long-term, I think it's a safe bet that it'll be the OS Formerly Known As Palm On Linux.

The recent PalmSource dev conference combined with recent statements from the PalmSource CEO (?) stating that all development work is being done on the Linux project would rule out much chance of LG planning a Cobalt product. Otherwise, if PalmSource thought that Cobalt might have a chance of taking hold, one would think they'd be showing more confidence in Cobalt as "the platform to develop for" for the next two years.

Two possibilities I can think of that could prove me wrong and result in this actually being a Cobalt device:
1) PalmSource execs are completely incompetent and are killing all developer interest in Cobalt just as a major licensee is about to use it.
2) LG's "commitment" is miniscule and they're planning on using Cobalt on a single phone with small production numbers and small sales expectations. In this case, PalmSource is using this announcement to get some positive press but the impact on their financials will be minimal.

http://Tapland.com
- Tapwave Zodiac News, Reviews, & Discussion -

RE: Garnet or Cobalt?
hkklife @ 7/8/2005 10:30:08 AM # Q
Scott: well said. Even so, a SINGLE device using Cobalt (the lack of support that orphan'd receive from all of the major software developers notwithstanding) would be enough to stem some of the negative publicity flow and show that Cobalt is not a completely DOA OS. It's also likely that even if LG got out a single phone or two as one-off model(s), some smaller Chinese/Korean firm would see the opportunity and try to pick up with similar but cheaper models once LG's model has ceased production.

I still maintain that LG will be there with a line of fully tested and solid Cobalt smartphones sometime in 2007. The Treo and whatever GSPDA cooks up with Cobalt will have to carry the torch until then.

RE: Garnet or Cobalt?
javispedro @ 7/9/2005 4:28:56 PM # Q
A spanish tech magazine said LG was going to use Palm On Linux.

Palm Linux LG model? Great NEWS!
Timothy Rapson @ 7/9/2005 6:50:22 PM # Q
RE:" RE: Garnet or Cobalt?
javispedro @ 7/9/2005 4:28:56 PM #

A spanish tech magazine said LG was going to use Palm On Linux."

This is great news. It means that the phone won't be here until 2007 or so. But, this means further, that PalmSource still has 12 new manufacturers lined up for OS licenses for products that the will ship THIS YEAR. PalmSource promised. So, we hve all 12 coming in the next 6 months PLUS LG next year or two.

THIS WILL BE JUST GREAT!


RE: Garnet or Cobalt?
sr4 @ 7/9/2005 7:00:57 PM # Q
Ouch! Whats the icon for dripping sarcasm?

Surur

OK, to summarize (without the B.S.)
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 7/9/2005 7:41:40 PM # Q
1) PalmSource's main client (>90% of licenses sold) is Palm.

2) There will be no further development of PalmOS 5 (Garnet) or PalmOS 6 (Cobalt) for at least another year [Read: No further development, period].

3) Palm will never bring out a PalmOS 6 device.

4) Palm will be using modified PalmOS 5 (presumably up to 5.99999999999) for at least 18 - 24 more months.

5) Palm is actively considering using OSes other than PalmOS for future devices.

6) Most planned PalmOS 6 devices have been cancelled. Only a couple proof of concept devices exist. None will be available for purchase any time soon. If ever.

7) It takes approximately a year to take a COMPLETED smartphone through all the testing procedures and into the hands of consumers.

8) MANY completed phones are never released simply because they are not picked up by carriers. (Hellooooooooooo Samsung SPH-i550, SGH-i530, SGH-i505!) Others (like the Motorola MPx) are dumped in the corporate trash can like a ba$tard, gimpy, redheaded stepchild or (like the frustrating-but-cool Sony Ericsson T608) are abandoned by carriers + left to fend for themselves. Bottom line: product announcements and even working prototypes mean NOTHING in the cellphone industry. Until you can actually buy a phone at your local cellphone shop it might just as well not exist.

9) Developers have shunned PalmOS 6 because there are no devices running PalmOS 6, they have to re-learn how to code if developing for it, and the development tools have been lacking.

10) PalmOS 6 reportedly has serious speed and stability "issues" in its current state. If development has now been stopped, presumably all bugs/"issues" will not be fixed any time soon should a licensee be brave enough to actually ship a device with PalmOS 6.

11) PalmSource has no new revenue streams (+ revenues continue to decline), is losing licencees, has continued to lose tens of millions $$$ per year, just fired 1/6 of its staff, has no permanent CEO, and is betting its entire future on OSes that will not be ready for at least another 12 - 18 months.

12) PalmSource sold it's rights to the "Palm" name and in a few years will have to stop calllling its product PalmOS.

13) The three most innovative companies in the PalmOS platform (HanEra, Handspring and Sony) are now gone.


CAN IT POSSIBLY GET ANY WORSE THAN THIS?

Is there ANYONE (besides Kirvin) who still feels that PalmSource can survive independently.

Predicted "Dead Pool" Takeout date? PalmSource will be purchased within six months.

TVoR, Inc.


------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

RE: Garnet or Cobalt?
SeldomVisitor @ 7/10/2005 7:30:41 AM # Q
And, according to "PDABuzz"'s "inside source", 35 more got laid off from PSRC this week. Since this is "secret inside talk" one coul assume this is over and above the ones laid off overtly already.

RE: Garnet or Cobalt?
SeldomVisitor @ 7/10/2005 7:42:21 AM # Q
This is the overt job cut news:

== http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/050630/earns_palmsource.html?.v=5

It looks pretty all-encompassing to me.

PDABuzz probably is simply clueless - and me for assuming they knew something more significant.

Nevermind!

Reply to this comment

Are they going to do anything outside Korea?

AdamaDBrown @ 7/6/2005 1:22:26 PM # Q
LG already has several converged devices, but you never see them because they never leave Korea. Korea has a considerably more advanced cell network than we do, and a booming market for phones and data devices.

So is LG actually going to produce phones that make it to the broader market, or is this a big false alarm?

RE: Are they going to do anything outside Korea?
cervezas @ 7/6/2005 2:40:47 PM # Q
I've got news for you: Asia *is* the broader market. :(

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
RE: Are they going to do anything outside Korea?
AdamaDBrown @ 7/6/2005 4:30:15 PM # Q
Even if that's true, the vast majority of sales in Asia aren't going to be smartphones. They're not cost effective. Look at GSPDA, and tell me that they're outselling the Treo or the XDA/MDA line.

Now in the Korean market, smartphones are a lot more practical, since there's a lot more demand and the cost is more reasonable. But it's still a pretty small market, at least as compared to NorthAm and Europe.

RE: Are they going to do anything outside Korea?
Rome @ 7/6/2005 10:28:26 PM # Q
First, GSPDA is not LG. LG is tier 1, GSPDA is tier 2. LG has worldwide reach and distribution.

True that the NA smartphone market is currently larger than Asia, but the growth going forward will in in Asia. Seen the growth rate in China lately?



RE: Are they going to do anything outside Korea?
AdamaDBrown @ 7/7/2005 1:39:04 AM # Q
Yeah, I have seen China's growth rate. Have you seen their average income? China likes cheap, cheaper, and cheapest. Smartphones aren't something that falls into that category.

As for GSPDA, of course they're not LG. I wasn't comparing them. I was pointing out that smartphone sales in Asia aren't even close to those in the west.

In any event, LG has a lot of converged devices that never make it outside Korea, in case you didn't know. My primary question is whether they intend to market in the US and Europe, or to make devices exclusively for the Korean market. It seems like nobody knows the answer to that, and they're trying to obfuscate the fact.

RE: Are they going to do anything outside Korea?
Rome @ 7/7/2005 2:14:00 AM # Q
"Yeah, I have seen China's growth rate. Have you seen their average income? China likes cheap, cheaper, and cheapest. Smartphones aren't something that falls into that category."

Two points. First, there are a lot more people in China than in the U.S., about 4-5X. So even a smaller percentage means a large number. Second, guess which country on this planet is one of the fastest-growing luxury car market? Yes, it is China, where the "average" person owns a bicycle. And If you go out and survey 100 business executives, more than 80% of them will tell you that China is a key growth market for his/her company.


"As for GSPDA, of course they're not LG. I wasn't comparing them. I was pointing out that smartphone sales in Asia aren't even close to those in the west."

LG sell in Europe and North America as well. They are tier 1 not because they only sell in Asia.


"In any event, LG has a lot of converged devices that never make it outside Korea, in case you didn't know. My primary question is whether they intend to market in the US and Europe, or to make devices exclusively for the Korean market. It seems like nobody knows the answer to that, and they're trying to obfuscate the fact."

The same applies to Samsung, Motorola, and Nokia. The fact is that we don't know for sure whether LG will market Palm OS smartphones worldwide or just in Korea. Only time will tell. However, if you read the press release closely, it says that LG licensed "Palm OS worldwide." So if I were to guess, I would say that these LG-Palm OS smartphones are coming to the U.S. and Europe.

RE: Are they going to do anything outside Korea?
Timothy Rapson @ 7/7/2005 11:49:00 AM # Q
This IS and interesting question.

I guess the bottom line is where LG and China are 1 year from now. If LG is selling a lot of very cheap (sub$100) phones it means they are after China. If they offer a bunch of those high end ($400+) models then they are after another marked.

If PalmSource holds true to their past declared intentions (not to let licensees step on each other's toes) LG will offer the low enders.

It will be intersting to look back on this thread next year.

RE: Are they going to do anything outside Korea?
AdamaDBrown @ 7/7/2005 5:21:07 PM # Q
While this is all very entertaining, we're not talking about luxury cars, and we're not even talking about China. We're talking about LG's converged devices, and Korea versus the rest of the world.

LG sell in Europe and North America as well. They are tier 1 not because they only sell in Asia.

I think that you're deliberately avoiding my point. Of course they sell in EU and NA. But their converged devices haven't left Korea, which is their home market. International companies frequently make products for their home market that never leave the country--look at Sony.

The fact is that we don't know for sure whether LG will market Palm OS smartphones worldwide or just in Korea.

Correct, yes, that is the current situation. Thank you for acknowledging the original question.

RE: Are they going to do anything outside Korea?
silkentiger @ 7/8/2005 5:32:39 AM # Q
I hate to get into a pissing match here but this is just some ignorant stuff being spewed in this little thread. All I have to say is take a look at just the numbers from Nokia smartphone (just Nokia) sales in Asia vs the number of *total* smartphone sales in North America. Apparently that number will astound you, though not sure why, as its been that way for a number of years with mobile phones in general. PDAs? Yeah not as big in Asia. Mobile phones? Far bigger there than here. North America has been far behind most of the rest of the world and is only now playing "catch up".

RE: Are they going to do anything outside Korea?
Rome @ 7/8/2005 3:01:26 PM # Q
"While this is all very entertaining, we're not talking about luxury cars, and we're not even talking about China. We're talking about LG's converged devices, and Korea versus the rest of the world."

So what? I was using the luxury car example to illustrate a point. If you can't infer from one situation to another, then we have problem.

"I think that you're deliberately avoiding my point. Of course they sell in EU and NA. But their converged devices haven't left Korea, which is their home market. International companies frequently make products for their home market that never leave the country--look at Sony."

Did I avoid your question? Please re-read the rest of my original reply and see you own reply below.

"Correct, yes, that is the current situation. Thank you for acknowledging the original question."

Here is the central issue. You are assuming status quo for the foreseeable future. Your logic goes like this - if a company has not sold outside of its home country, then it is unlikely it will sell outside its home country in the future. Please stop looking into the future through the rear-view mirror. Sony didn't sell outside of Japan 50 years ago, and look at how far it has come. LG is one the largest Korean Chaebols with gloabl ambition, and I highly doubt that it licensed the Palm OS, which is more popular in the U.S. than anywhere else, soley for its domestic market. Like I said before, only time will tell.



RE: Are they going to do anything outside Korea?
AdamaDBrown @ 7/8/2005 3:08:52 PM # Q
Nokia's "smartphones" are mainly bogus numbers. While it's true that their Series 60 devices have some small iota of software capability, the vast majority have no expansion, no third-party software, and very little in the way of what would be traditionally defined as smartphone functions. They're effectively camera phones, with a small sub-set of Symbian mixed in so that Nokia can pad Symbian's marketshare numbers, as well as their own smartphone numbers.

Reply to this comment

Hmmm

sremick @ 7/6/2005 1:33:13 PM # Q
Not sure how I feel about this. Every LG phone I've played with has felt like cheap plastic, and the feedback I hear from others confirms that they indeed are and break easily. They also seem to lag pretty far behind other phones in terms of features (as well as quality).

Probably better than Samsung though (although Samsung makes good LCD displays, but that's about it).

I envision a new swarm of cheap, junky devices containing PalmOS, tarnishing the name. I long for the glory days of the Vx and the T3.

I'll keep my Motorola V635.

http://vtbsd.net/winhelp/

RE: Hmmm
LiveFaith @ 7/6/2005 1:54:40 PM # Q
Tarnishing the name? I love Palm, but at this point I would be excited to hear that Tonka & Little Tikes were on board for a joint venture! :-D

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: Hmmm
zuvembi @ 7/6/2005 4:59:16 PM # Q
I think that's an unfair characterization of LG. I'm on my third LG phone in six years, and none of them died, they were all retired peacefully. I'm incredibly hard on phones, so if I can't kill them, they're made fairly well.

My current LG phone has taken a lot of abuse. I sometimes forget to close the pocket on my bike bag I chuck it in to commute home. As a result I've become attuned to the sound of it flying out of my bag and sliding across the pavement at high speed. I've done this about half a dozen times to it, plus all the other random dropping and abuse I've subjected it to.

The only LG phone I would have said wasn't good was the VX4400. It definitely felt like it was rushed to market and it broke easily and had some other weird issues.

I definitely agree about Samsung. I tried a couple of those and they both died within the 15 day guarantee period. Terrible.

Reply to this comment

Hopefully this announcement is going to be trend?

benamy @ 7/6/2005 1:39:40 PM # Q
LG is the name that should have been announced in the Spring of 2004. So it's only a year and half late.

Lets just hope this is the first of many of the big names to start to apprear producing real touchable PALMSOURCE products.

Ben


Reply to this comment

Is this the Tier 1

JarJar @ 7/6/2005 2:32:31 PM # Q
Is this the Tier 1 partner that Palm was bragging about a short time ago, or is another partner soon to be announced?
RE: Is this the Tier 1
yanchu @ 7/6/2005 2:43:48 PM # Q
My guess is this is probably it. What happened to Kyocera, anyone knows? It seems like they never updated the 7135 since its release, and it's still running v4.1. Is Kyocera just waiting for the license to expire?
RE: Is this the Tier 1
AdamaDBrown @ 7/6/2005 4:36:58 PM # Q
Yes, this is the big licensee PSRC was bragging about.

Kyocera basically gave up years ago. I'm not sure they're even still a licensee in any real way--PalmSource lists them on its website, but it also lists Fossil, Lenovo, and Sony, who have all walked away from the market.

RE: Is this the Tier 1
hkklife @ 7/6/2005 5:38:36 PM # Q
OS 4.1.2 if you want to get detailed about it! They updated it to include Graffiti 2 and that's *IT*!



RE: Is this the Tier 1
LiveFaith @ 7/7/2005 9:53:19 AM # Q
hkk,

Then what else would people possibly ever need beyond that? :-D

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Is this the Tier 1
pdaInfoGuy @ 7/7/2005 2:50:10 PM # Q

AdamaDBrown wrote:

>Fossil, Lenovo, and Sony, who have all walked away from the market.

Nope, wrong. Fossil is still selling these devices. They are on the shelves and available on line.

http://shopping.franklincovey.com/shopping/catalog/product.jsp?navAction=push&navCount=0&id=prod800004


RE: Is this the Tier 1
AdamaDBrown @ 7/7/2005 5:04:40 PM # Q
"Selling," of course, being a relative term. I could stand out on the roadside "selling" $25 bags of rocks. But that doesn't mean anyone will buy them.

A bag of rocks for a Tungsten 5. Fair trade?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 7/7/2005 9:53:03 PM # Q
"Selling," of course, being a relative term. I could stand out on the roadside "selling" $25 bags of rocks. But that doesn't mean anyone will buy them.

Would you be willing to trade one of you bags of rocks for a new Tungsten 5? Deal? email me if you're willing to cut a deal.



------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

RE: Is this the Tier 1
pdaInfoGuy @ 7/12/2005 11:47:42 PM # Q
AdamaDBrown wrote:

>Fossil, Lenovo, and Sony, who have all walked away from the market.

AdamaDBrown wrote:

>"Selling," of course, being a relative term. I could stand out on the roadside "selling" $25 bags of rocks. But that doesn't mean anyone will buy them.

The point was that you indicated that Fossil "walked away from the market". This is not factual (but hey, look where we are so it is no big surprise). If Fossil can't sell the product they make that is another problem. Stick to the facts, there's enough misinformation here.

Reply to this comment

Go Nokia!

mikecane @ 7/13/2005 6:58:12 PM # Q
LG Electronics May Post Lower Earnings for 3rd Straight Quarter

July 14 (Bloomberg) -- LG Electronics Inc., the world's fourth-largest mobile phone maker, may report a lower profit for a third quarter as competition from Nokia Oyj and Motorola Inc. intensified and earnings from flat-panel displays fell.

http://tinyurl.com/cvgp8

Reply to this comment

LG's first PDA announced...!!!

sr4 @ 11/28/2005 8:34:47 AM # Q

and it runs Windows Mobile...

MobileKorea.TV has the details on a new Pocket PC announced by LG on Sunday. The PM80 is a bit of a dinosaur spec-wise: an Intel Bulverde 312MHz processor, 64MB RAM, 64MB Flash ROM, an SD slot, a 3.5" QVGA (240 x 320) LCD, a 1420mAh Li-Ion battery, and Windows Mobile 2003 Second Edition. However, it does support Korea's terrestrial digital media broadcasting service (T-DMB).

http://mobilekorea.tv/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=240&Itemid=33

Surur

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