|
    Comments on: Palm Preparing for Linux Development
Detailed Comment View (223 Total Comments)
The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. PIC is not responsible for them in any way. login or register for free in order to post comments.  RE: Well, no Cobalt is now official.
This guy, who claims to have inside sources, still confidently claims the Treo 700 is coming in two months, and has cobalt. http://discussion.treocentral.com/showpost.php?p=786305&postcount=167 Surur FrankenCobalt
Either PALM, Inc. is going to buy PSRC or they are going to sidestep PSRC and do their own OS in-house. Why else would they try to hire so many Linux Developers? The question is, who owns the POS GUI? PSRC??? So that means PALM needs to buy PSRC? RE: Well, no Cobalt is now official.
I meant to also say that perhaps "Cobalt" = Palm/CobaltGUI on Linux. RE: Well, no Cobalt is now official.PenguinPowered @ 8/26/2005 7:32:11 PM #
Palm's in the hardware business. That means they have devices that no one else would support under Linux. That means they'd have to do their own driver writing for those devices. RE: Well, no Cobalt is now official.
In other words, those who still believe a PALM device will have Cobalt installed should stay at rest now. Amen. RE: Well, no Cobalt is now official.PenguinPowered @ 8/26/2005 7:36:08 PM #
> The question is, who owns the POS GUI? PSRC??? Yes. > So that means PALM needs to buy PSRC? No. Palm has already licensed Cobalt from PSRC, IIRC. RE: Well, no Cobalt is now official.
> Either PALM, Inc. is going to buy PSRC or they are going to > sidestep PSRC and do their own OS in-house. Why else would they > try to hire so many Linux Developers? These descriptions don't seem to be related to OS development, but rather integration and expansion of applications.
RE: Well, no Cobalt is now official.
>No. Palm has already licensed Cobalt from PSRC, IIRC. My point was - Let's say PALM, Inc. wanted to do their own POS in-house. An independent PSRC would never allow it, hence, PALM would have to BUY PSRC in order to wrangle control of the PALMGUI. If 3-4 letters are worth $30M isn't the entire friggin company - (rights to PalmOS/GUI included) worth $160M???? Also, you stifle all POS hardware competition - not that there really is any. RE: Well, no Cobalt is now official.PenguinPowered @ 8/26/2005 8:13:39 PM #
well, Palm could have had PSRC for a lot less instead of sending them the $30M and then buying them, back when they were still PalmOne, but buying them at this point wouldn't necessarily stiffle hardware competition as PSRC has licensees other than Palm and Palm would have to honor those licenses. RE: Well, no Cobalt is now official.The_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/26/2005 10:00:51 PM #
This guy, who claims to have inside sources, still confidently claims the Treo 700 is coming in two months, and has cobalt. http://discussion.treocentral.com/showpost.php?p=786305&postcount=167 Surur I thought I had been told that the Sprint Windows Mobile Treos were going to be labelled "Treo 700". The only way Palm will release a Cobalt Treo is if they have a deathwish. Bring it on, Mo Fo! The Palm Economy = Communism™ Desperate times. Desperate measures.The_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/26/2005 10:12:26 PM #
Either PALM, Inc. is going to buy PSRC or they are going to sidestep PSRC and do their own OS in-house. Why else would they try to hire so many Linux Developers? The question is, who owns the POS GUI? PSRC??? So that means PALM needs to buy PSRC? They will be buying PalmSource and are preparing for this eventuality, since ultimately Palm will be throwing all of their eggs into the PalmLinux basket. For now, PalmSource owns ALL of PalmOS. PalmSource may be ripe for a takeover within a couple months. Then Palm throws everything they have into PalmLinux. PalmSource is already looking at making alliances with every mobile Linux-related company with a pulse in an effort to get help putting PalmOS on a Linux kernel. Desperate times. Desperate measures. The Palm Economy = Communism™ RE: Well, no Cobalt is now official.AdamaDBrown @ 8/26/2005 10:19:31 PM #
I would read this as being that Palm is either planning on creating their own Linux flavored OS, or they're getting ready to replace the current developers after a buyout of PSRC. I just don't see any way that they would hire people to do development for an OS that in the very best case scenario won't be out for at least a year. Penguin, once again, what evidence is there that Palm has licensed PLinux? All they've done is extend their license for PalmOS. I've seen nothing to indicate that they've committed to delivering Linux or anything else. VoR, all the credible reports seem to label the WM Treo as the 670. RE: Well, no Cobalt is now official.The_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/26/2005 10:38:19 PM #
Palm's in the hardware business. That means they have devices that no one else would support under Linux. That means they'd have to do their own driver writing for those devices. Marty's back in fine form I see. Palm is in the hardware AND software business, as shown by the legions of software engineers working for the company and their "personalization" of FrankenPalmOS 5 over the past 2 years. Of course, since they seem to be rather incompetent at what they do, more qualified codemonkeys will be needed ASAP. I predict Palm will be taking over PalmSource pretty soon and flushing out many of the "HoBeEn" (Holy Be Engineers), replacing them with people with REAL marketable skills. Remember how the Palmyannas claimed that (one of many of) Cobalt Achilles' heels was the woeful lack of driver support and how the advantage of PalmLinux would be all the free, FREE FREE driver + other work that the Linux World was just itching to give away to their new Palm Buddies? Hmmmmm... TVoR SOMETHING'S ROTTEN IN THE STATE OF PALM The Palm Economy = Communism™ Palm has Method to their MadnessThe_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/26/2005 11:21:48 PM #
well, Palm could have had PSRC for a lot less instead of sending them the $30M and then buying them, back when they were still PalmOne, but buying them at this point wouldn't necessarily stiffle hardware competition as PSRC has licensees other than Palm and Palm would have to honor those licenses. Except for the minor detail that by floating PalmSource the $30 million when they did, Palm in essence stole that money from shareholders and propped up PalmSource + PalmLinux development with the "free" infusion. Anyone here who still believes the original Palm "split" was real, please raise your hands. [No one moves...]
The Palm Economy = Communism™ RE: Well, no Cobalt is now official.
AdamaDBrown wrote: what evidence is there that Palm has licensed PLinux? All they've done is extend their license for PalmOS. I've seen nothing to indicate that they've committed to delivering Linux or anything else. So you think Palm plans to just keep patching Garnet through 2009? Honestly, some of you guys are so afraid not to look cynical in this forum that you end up saying things that are downright stupid. Why would Palm have renewed their Palm OS license for five years if they weren't on board with the roadmap for the OS? People can debate as to whether it's the Cobalt or Linux part of the roadmap that their on board with at this point, but there's no question that Palm has designs on one or the other, if not both. It's only a question of when.
RE: Well, no Cobalt is now official.
>"So you think Palm plans to just keep patching Garnet through 2009? Honestly, some of you guys are so afraid not to look cynical in this forum that you end up saying things that are downright stupid." Dear Optimist - Even Palm's own Bloated Chief Senior Apologist says that "Palm can easily use Garnet until at least 2009." and "Garnet oughta be good enough for anybody." RE: Well, no Cobalt is now official.
p.s. We have a right to be cynical give all of the shenanigans we've witnessed over the years from both PSRC and PALM. Perhaps we'll be a little less cynical when we can actually buy a device running the mythical Cobalt first shipped years ago. RE: Well, no Cobalt is now official.
Gekko wrote: Dear Optimist - Even Palm's own Bloated Chief Senior Apologist says that "Palm can easily use Garnet until at least 2009." and "Garnet oughta be good enough for anybody." I see. And you apparently agree. I suggest you try thinking for yourself for a change. You might be surprised what you come up with.
No Cobalt for you! Now GET OUT!The_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/27/2005 2:38:04 PM #
I would read this as being that Palm is either planning on creating their own Linux flavored OS, Absolutely NOT. or they're getting ready to replace the current developers after a buyout of PSRC. I just don't see any way that they would hire people to do development for an OS that in the very best case scenario won't be out for at least a year. Partially correct. Yes, Palm will be buying PalmSource soon (probably within months) but they need ADD to (not simply replace) PalmSource's current troop of codemonkeys. Of course, several of the more useless HoBeEn (Holy Be Engineers) will be asked to vacate their cubicles and then be escorted off the premises. Palm's problem is that the smart PalmSource codemonkeys aren't oblivious to the chaos swirling around them and are either in the process of or have already found jobs at more stable companies, leaving Palm with some pretty slim pickings. Penguin, once again, what evidence is there that Palm has licensed PLinux? All they've done is extend their license for PalmOS. I've seen nothing to indicate that they've committed to delivering Linux or anything else. Adam, don't be silly. PalmOS 5 should have been EOL in 2004. It is simply not realistic to expect Palm to plan a future around an OS that can't multitask if they're serious about PalmOS remaining a viable alternative to Windows Mobile, Symbian and Linux. While I believe PalmOS 5 could be a great OS if PalmSource could clean up the code, given their limited resources and the fact that it's a dead end, PalmSource won't be wasting much time on PalmOS 5. PalmLinux would have been a BRILLIANT platform in 2005 had Palm been smart enough to choose to develop this instead of Cobalt four years ago. By now PalmLinux could have developed enough momentum that it could have become the de facto standard OS for high end mobile devices. Instead, it's a work in progress, already three years behind the competition. Unfortunately, PalmOS' competitors aren't going to wait for them to get their act together and catch up. As was the case with Tapwave, it's possible that PalmLinux's window of opportunity to seize market share has passed. VoR, all the credible reports seem to label the WM Treo as the 670. We'll see. I heard it would be the Treo 700, but perhaps things have changed. In any event, it will be here in just a few months.
------------------------ The Palm eCONomy = Communism™ RE: Well, no Cobalt is now official.AdamaDBrown @ 8/27/2005 3:05:29 PM #
So you think Palm plans to just keep patching Garnet through 2009? I wouldn't have expected them to keep hacking Garnet past January 2004, but they obviously feel differently. Given the fact that Palm has tried to use Garnet for purposes that it was clearly not even remotely designed for (flash storage, hard drives, cell phones, etc.), there's very little I would put past them. I, personally, would certainly not try to stretch Garnet until 2009, but then I would never have tried to stretch Garnet until now, half-destroying it in the process. Why would Palm have renewed their Palm OS license for five years if they weren't on board with the roadmap for the OS? For one thing, my question was in response to an assertion that Palm has committed to delivering PalmLinux. Whether they CHOOSE to do to or not is irrelevant to the original topic. And for another I'll point out that renewing their license--at vastly decreased prices--in no way commits them to delivering anything related to PalmOS, or upgrading from Garnet. All it does is give them the option of using PalmOS in up to X many shipped products, for a flat fee of Y money. Sony still pays PSRC, and is listed as a licensee, but they haven't produced anything for years. It's a license, not a requirement. To answer your question in the simplest possible terms, Palm has to have a license in order to use PalmSource IP. That includes Garnet. I still have yet to hear an explanation for this assertion that Palm and LG have both committed to delivering Linux-based devices. Blithering on your Palm™The_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/27/2005 3:31:54 PM #
>"So you think Palm plans to just keep patching Garnet through 2009? Honestly, some of you guys are so afraid not to look cynical in this forum that you end up saying things that are downright stupid." Dear Optimist - Even Palm's own Bloated Chief Senior Apologist says that "Palm can easily use Garnet until at least 2009." and "Garnet oughta be good enough for anybody." Wow. Did Kirvin really say those things? That Palmyanna is so intent on rationalizing Palm's mistakes that he "end[s] up saying things that are downright stupid". It's pathetic that someone like Klueless Kirvin actually is being listened to by a lot of people at another Palm site. He has shown he has little understanding of both technical and business matters pertaining to PDAs. Kirvin also insists on ignoring factual evidence that contradicts his (frequently bizarre) positions yet also seems to flip flop on his convictions without blinking an eye. He seems to be an "all or none"/"black or white" type of chap and has difficulty seeing all sides of an issue. These are rather egregious traits for a self-styled pundit to possess. A few recent examples of "Kirvinisms": - Palm is a multitasking OS. There are dozens of other Kirvanisms I could come up with. The list of confused, specious, and truly bizarre things he has posted is actually quite shocking if you look at it. The fact that someone at PalmSource actually interviewed Kirvin for a position shows how out of touch with reality the company is. TVoR ------------------------ The Palm eCONomy = Communism™ RE: Well, no Cobalt is now official.
>I wouldn't have expected them to keep hacking Garnet past January 2004, but they obviously feel differently. Given the fact that Palm has tried to use Garnet for purposes that it was clearly not even remotely designed for (flash storage, hard drives, cell phones, etc.), there's very little I would put past them. I, personally, would certainly not try to stretch Garnet until 2009, but then I would never have tried to stretch Garnet until now, half-destroying it in the process. EXACTLY. RE: Well, no Cobalt is now official.PenguinPowered @ 8/27/2005 3:54:35 PM #
> Penguin, once again, what evidence is there that Palm has > licensed PLinux? All they've done is extend their license for > PalmOS. I've seen nothing to indicate that they've committed > to delivering Linux or anything else. Alas, I must make Skippy happy. My aging memory failed me, and I had misremembered what was in the press release for the license deal. Having reread everything, I have to agree with you that there is no public evidence that Palm has committed to deliver a PLinux phone. Note, they _have_ licensed PLinux. "PalmOS" licenses cover Cobalt going forward, and as the slide Skippy linked to points out, Cobalt, going forward, *is* Plinux. So, they've licensed it, they're apparently hiring linux people, and it's unlikely that they'll stick with Garnet through '09. I infer that they've got plans for PLinux, but no, there's no public evidence. Marty, please try to sort out your Astroturfing personality.The_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/27/2005 4:30:43 PM #
Alas, I must make Skippy happy. My aging memory failed me, and I had misremembered what was in the press release for the license deal. Having reread everything, I have to agree with you that there is no public evidence that Palm has committed to deliver a PLinux phone. Note, they _have_ licensed PLinux. "PalmOS" licenses cover Cobalt going forward, and as the slide Skippy linked to points out, Cobalt, going forward, *is* Plinux. So, they've licensed it, they're apparently hiring linux people, and it's unlikely that they'll stick with Garnet through '09. I infer that they've got plans for PLinux, but no, there's no public evidence. Before creating a new Astroturfing personality it's always a good idea to outline exactly what information said personality should appear to have access to given who it is that personality pretends to be. (e.g. pretending as if you're a Regular Joe end user but rattling off details only known to a few company insiders will blow your cover, requiring you to trot out the overused, embarassing "My aging memory" defense.) Just a friendly tip, Marty. Ryan deleted a couple of my comments exposing a few more of your slipups (I guess I'll have to start archiving copies of my posts, Surur-style) but we've already started to see how fecolent you are now that rumors are swirling about Palm finally buying PalmSource. Please get some other PalmSource employees to join in here to help you out, Martyr. We need more sacrificial "fresh meat" - you're starting to smell moldy these days. Must be because you're "aging". TVoR ------------------------ The Palm eCONomy = Communism™ RE: Well, no Cobalt is now official.AdamaDBrown @ 8/27/2005 6:54:08 PM #
TVoR said: PalmOS 5 should have been EOL in 2004. It is simply not realistic to expect Palm to plan a future around an OS that can't multitask if they're serious about PalmOS remaining a viable alternative to Windows Mobile, Symbian and Linux. While I believe PalmOS 5 could be a great OS if PalmSource could clean up the code, given their limited resources and the fact that it's a dead end, PalmSource won't be wasting much time on PalmOS 5. Yes, yes, and yes. And I should certainly hope that Palm does have plans to revamp the platform, because it desperately needs it. But I have seen people do stupider things, albeit not many. My interest is mainly on the point of Palm having committed to deliver Linux, even if only in a PR statement, versus simply being stupid not to. PenguinPowered said: That is really the absolute least reassuring thing that you could possibly have said. RE: Well, no Cobalt is now official.
cervezas, Interesting observation. I see your post illicited a storm of protest from the main Whiners. Why? Because you had the guts to question one of their pet theories. The lengths that the WinCE marketers go to never fails to amaze me. Of course, it's a sure sign of desparation. By the way, has anyone seen the FCC approval for the WinCE Treo yet? The PalmLinux development timeline: (DREAM ON, Kiddies!)The_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/31/2005 11:01:23 PM #
Those of us who saw the original timeline PalmSource/Palm gave for Cobalt understand exactly how funny this is:
------------------------ The Palm eCONomy = Communism™ RE: Well, no Cobalt is now official.MonkeyMike @ 9/4/2005 12:15:37 PM #
Palm/GNU/Linux? Would be sweet if they opened up the info on the hardware, I'd like to dualboot with a real linux. -- http://arpx.net/docs/top_10_palmos_applications - my top 10 palm apps. RE: Well, no Cobalt is now official.PenguinPowered @ 9/4/2005 1:53:23 PM #
No GNU, just Linux. I doubt the carriers would sell phones that Palm set up to allow dual booting, so you'll have to take that up with them.
 And in the meantime?
I hate to be a persimist, but what is PalmSource planning on doing in the meantime? I mean, right now, we are in the third year of Palm OS 5. It has become hacked and hacked again in it's latest version 5.4.9.6.4.23.4.6.7.89.7.7. (sorry for the sarcasm) I fear that it will take a year or two to develop Palm OS Linux and by then, where will Microsoft be? Symbian? Blackberry? All of these are very much competitors for PalmSource. Do they have a plan? Please correct me if I'm wrong; I simply may be ignorant to their near future roadmap. -A RE: And in the meantime?
We are SOL. Time will tell if Palm OS will survive. I do not know much of anything anymore and people who predict are mostly wrong(expect mike). If worse comes to worse there is always the Linux ports for the Ipaqs. The world will end in 2006. Just as it was predicted in the bible along with the release of Microsoft Longhorn.... :p You wanted to see the PalmOS Road Map? Here it is:The_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/26/2005 11:46:44 PM #
The Future According to PalmSource circa May 25, 2005 at PalmSource Mobile Summit & DevCon 2005 (held May 24 - 26, 2005 in San Jose)
http://www.palmfocus.com/images/index.php?page=6&sort=
The Palm Economy = Communism™ RE: And in the meantime?
Thanks for the link of the PSRC meeting. It’s about time we know what the hell PSRC has been doing. I thought they were just sitting around eating jelly donuts trying to make OS 5.9.9.9.9.9. Its good to see that MAYBE we will have a NEW OS in 3Q 2006. Don't get fooled againThe_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/27/2005 5:00:01 AM #
Thanks for the link of the PSRC meeting. It’s about time we know what the hell PSRC has been doing. I thought they were just sitting around eating jelly donuts trying to make OS 5.9.9.9.9.9. Its good to see that MAYBE we will have a NEW OS in 3Q 2006. You're welcome. You should be aware, though, that PalmSource is promising NOTHING regarding how reliable that schedule will be. And remember, this is the same company that said PalmOS 6 (Cobalt) was ready in December, 2003. Almost TWO YEARS LATER, we still have no PalmOS 6 devices shipping. And don't be fooled by how PalmSource has publicly attempted to trivialize what a major undertaking PalmLinux (PalmOS 7) is. They have tried to make it sound like it was as simple as doing an engine swap in a vehicle. A better analogy would be that PalmSource is trying to retain the familiar car frame and interior, while changing everything else (engine, transmission, suspension, steering, electronics, tires, etc.) On top of this, PalmSource doesn't have a lot of employees, the company was just demoralized by major layoffs, and the remaining employees lack the skill set needed to quickly synthesize a Linux-based OS. Add in traditional Palm arrogance and unwillingness to bring in outside help (FINALLY now being done) and you have a recipe for disaster, with PalmLinux release dates likely to slip repeatedly over the next few years. The problem is that PalmSource's competition is ALREADY available and will have evolved even further by 2007 when PalmLinux might eventually be released. PalmSource has floundered since the Palm "split", but I expect things will get better QUICKLY when PalmSource is "bought" by Palm.
The Palm Economy = Communism™ RE: And in the meantime?
< VR, Now, just because OS 6.0 was a full blown piece of worthless nothing that ultimately got distributed to 3 Oswin cell phones only after an upgrade .... well, let's bnot get technical about it. :-o RE: And in the meantime?PenguinPowered @ 8/27/2005 3:34:52 PM #
> They have tried to make it sound like it was as simple as > doing an engine swap in a vehicle. A better analogy would be > that PalmSource is trying to retain the familiar car frame > and interior, while changing everything else (engine, > transmission, suspension, steering, electronics, tires, etc.) Poor Skippy. Guess he's never watched Monster Garage, where they do that sort of thing in a week. > the remaining employees lack the skill set needed to quickly Skippy, pronouncements like that would be a lot more credible if you had any idea who is working on the PalmSource Linux project and what their skill sets are. From your wild guessing about who I am and what I do, you've made it very clear that you don't. If my aging memory serves me correctly, Skippy, you've recently implied that programmers get paid overtime and Linux gurus are managers. Hard to imagine how someone with such little understanding of programming could judge the quality of the programmers, even if he knew who they were. But, once again, thanks for the laughs. Please keep it up Marty - you're doing wellThe_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/27/2005 4:49:41 PM #
> They have tried to make it sound like it was as simple as > doing an engine swap in a vehicle. A better analogy would be > that PalmSource is trying to retain the familiar car frame > and interior, while changing everything else (engine, > transmission, suspension, steering, electronics, tires, etc.) Poor Skippy. Guess he's never watched Monster Garage, where they do that sort of thing in a week. Rebuilds are relatively easy to do if you have skilled automotive [or software] engineers, Marty. Unfortunately, PalmSource has shown repeatedly that they are rather lacking in that particular resource. Of course, outsourcing code to those who are more intelligent/able than the Holy Be Engineers will be a big help, but is PalmSource up to the task of integrating these desperate + disparate efforts? China MobileSoft codemonkeys aren't the answer. Who will be the The One that will step up to the plate and take over from Hoffman in fitting together all the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle that PalmLinux has now become? Could it be... Sing for me Marty! Serenade me the way George used to back in the Good Ole Days... Hope to see you at the performance in Redwood City today. > the remaining employees lack the skill set needed to quickly Skippy, pronouncements like that would be a lot more credible if you had any idea who is working on the PalmSource Linux project and what their skill sets are. From your wild guessing about who I am and what I do, you've made it very clear that you don't. If my aging memory serves me correctly, Skippy, you've recently implied that programmers get paid overtime and Linux gurus are managers. Hard to imagine how someone with such little understanding of programming could judge the quality of the programmers, even if he knew who they were. But, once again, thanks for the laughs. Oh Marty, you're perseverating again. You still keep running from the issues here, but it's not like anyone will notice, right? And remember: we're not laughing with you, Marty, we're laughing at you. Take care. TVoR ------------------------ The Palm eCONomy = Communism™ RE: And in the meantime?The_Voice_of_Reason @ 9/4/2005 3:24:28 PM #
How's work going, Martyr? Will you have PalmLinux ready for July 1 2006? What's that? We can't hear you... The Palm eCONomy = Communism™ How PalmSource is REALLY doing: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8026#110958 Marty Fouts... Calling Marty Fouts.... Come in, Marty....The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/15/2005 3:54:41 PM #
------------------------ Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted. ------------------------ The Palm eCONomy = Communism™ The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038 NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823
Cutting Edge!Timothy Rapson @ 8/27/2005 8:20:53 AM #
It is too late to do this, in my opinion. Motorola currently offers, WM, Symbian, AND Linux phones by the ton. By the time PalmSource (by then it will surely be a part of PalmOne again) and PalmOne get Plinux out, Moto will be on their third generation model with a big successful iTunes history of profits to fall back on. By the time Plinux is in stores we will have seen 2 updates of Windows Mobile and perhaps a Longhorn OS model half the size and 1/3 the price of an OOQ. How will a LifeDrive Plinux model compete with that? RE: Cutting Edge!
Well, 2009 would be the year PSRC dies. That is when the Palm contract is up and money stops coming in. I have PSRC makes it and gets a good OS out but, only time will tell.
No Windows jobs at Palm
I haven't seen any openings at Palm for Win CE, Windows Mobile, or .NET Compact Framework engineers for the last few months (as long as I've been looking). Has anyone else? I suppose the only explanation for this that would satisfy the Palm-is-dead lemmings is that developing a Windows Mobile version of the Treo must be such a trivial operation that no one at Palm actually needs to know anything about it. And hey, perhaps they're right. I'll just bet that all the drivers for Palm's custom hardware can just be freely downloaded from SourceForge, ready to plug and play. After all, hasn't Bill Gates always said Windows is an "open" platform? Why ever would you need to hire engineers to create a WM smartphone?
RE: No Windows jobs at PalmAdamaDBrown @ 8/27/2005 3:37:59 PM #
Palm wouldn't need any WM employees. Verizon doesn't have a WM division to support their XV6600 PPC phone--all the software work is done by HTC, which is the company produces the Treos. To claim that Palm not taking the vastly more expensive route of doing development themselves is proof that there's no possibility of a Windows Treo is grasping at straws. RE: No Windows jobs at Palm
TVoR wrote: HTC will provide Palm with a turnkey Treo 700 solution - NO effort on Palm's end required (just like they like it). Well, then, we've heard it from our anonymous expert. Palm doesn't need engineers anymore because they don't need to know how their products work. They can just outsource all their R&D, product development, and support and simply be in the business of putting shiny orange badges on stuff and picking up the checks when they come in. It's a lean and mean business model, I'll say that for it. My point, by the way, was this: why draw conclusions about what Palm's Linux plans are from looking at their employment site if you're not going to draw similar conclusions about their Windows Mobile plans?
RE: No Windows jobs at PalmPenguinPowered @ 8/27/2005 4:03:10 PM #
You can't design phones with a particular OS in mind and then have a third party build them for you unless you know enough about that OS to factor it into your hardware design tradeoffs and to manage the work being done for you by the third party. If Palm's doing new hardware (which everyone seems to agree that this "Treo 670" is) and switching OSes, they either already had Windows Mobile talent on staff before a couple of months ago, or they should be hiring. Second, you need applications people who understand the OS if you're going to provide any software of your own as part of your value add, and you'd usually start ramping that group up after you had first hardware and were in the process of doing integration prior to carrier qualification. Of course, if there's any truth to claim that the phones going to be available in the US for retail in q4 '05 or q1 '06, given the carrier lead time for qualification, the development had better be mostly done and the phone in the hands of the carriers RealSoonNow, as in sometime next month. RE: No Windows jobs at Palm
AdamaDBrown wrote: Palm wouldn't need any WM employees. Verizon doesn't have a WM division to support their XV6600 PPC phone--all the software work is done by HTC, which is the company produces the Treos. To claim that Palm not taking the vastly more expensive route of doing development themselves is proof that there's no possibility of a Windows Treo is grasping at straws. As if all the furor over those Treo 670 videos isn't "grasping at straws!" Or sifting through employment listings on the Palm web site? C'mon, lets face it: straws are our stock in trade here. But I think you're wrong about the XV6600. First of all, I can tell you with absolute certainty that Verizon has Microsoft engineers responsible for the certification of PPC phones on their network. That's not something they just trust an ODM to work out because it potentially affects the stability of their entire network. Secondly, if I remember correctly, the XV6600 is a rebranding of an AudioVox phone and AudioVox certainly also had Microsoft engineers that worked with their counterparts at HTC during the development of that device. There's way too much invested in bringing a product like this to market (and a very high product failure rate, by the way) for any partner in the process to just rely blindly on the engineering work of the others. Anyway, my point wasn't that the absence of job postings for Win CE engineers was some kind of "proof" that there's no Windows Mobile Treo in the works. I just thought it was interesting after all the discussion of the Linux postings and the speculation about the WM Treo that no one had tried connecting the dots yet. RE: No Windows jobs at Palm
Down to their last breath, the Apologists will refuse to believe in th WM Treo. Why? Because they know it means 'the end'. RE: No Windows jobs at Palm
Gekko wrote: Down to their last breath, the Apologists will refuse to believe in th WM Treo. Why? Because they know it means 'the end'. See, it's just not a religious question for me like it is for some of you guys. I don't think about it in terms of belief, faith, the coming "end times" or any of that. Maybe you have to have a favorite football team to understand this mentality, and by some genetic failing I don't. What I do think is that the market is going to have a lot more twists and turns as OS and device vendors jostle and strategize for position in a market that is very nascent. To me the predictions about how the WM Treo is "the end" are kind of like somebody looking at the first pawn being taken in a chess game and saying "oh boy, that guy is going to win the game." The market that is being fought over now by Palm, MS, Symbian and RIM is a very small percentage of what will exist in five or ten years. I agree that Palm is down now and they've made some mistakes, but if you want to know where they will be in two years, five years you can't just naively extrapolate. You have to look at where they are now and what the current market reality is (it's changing fast). Palm OS for Linux is not just another version of Palm OS. It's a completely different business model. If you want to know about the success of the model it's not just a technical question. You need to look at why Linux is hurting MS so badly in the phone market right now, for example. You need to look at what actually sells devices today and what it takes to get a successful one out. There actually aren't very many good data points, so there's lots of room for interpretation. It's interesting stuff and the questions it raises about the future leave all kinds of possibilities wide open. I don't pretend to know where Palm OS is going to be in the future. I just think it's going to be very interesting to watch now that PalmSource has made what I consider to be some pretty smart decisions about how to reposition themselves.
RE: No Windows jobs at PalmAdamaDBrown @ 8/27/2005 5:32:57 PM #
cervezas said: why draw conclusions about what Palm's Linux plans are from looking at their employment site if you're not going to draw similar conclusions about their Windows Mobile plans? Primarily because they would need on-staff Linux people to do anything on that front, whereas to build a Windows Treo they would not. PenguinPowered said: Who said Palm was designing anything? All they have to do is ask HTC to develop a WM Treo to X specifications, and possibly decide on a new hardware shell. HTC is an ODM, which means that they can and will design a unit from the ground up according to a customer's specs. Second, you need applications people who understand the OS Developing applications for an OS, and fitting an OS to new hardware are VERY different things. I can probably think of a dozen developers on here who could develop apps for either Palm or Pocket PC, but I doubt that any of them knows how to merge an OS package with a new hardware layer. cervezas said: I'd hesitate to call it grasping at straws when there's photos and video of the broom. First of all, I can tell you with absolute certainty that Verizon has Microsoft engineers responsible for the certification of PPC phones on their network. Which has absolutely and completely nothing to do with putting an OS on hardware, and don't pretend that it does. Testing is not development. That's not something they just trust an ODM to work out because it potentially affects the stability of their entire network. Oh, please. Like one PPC phone that's not sufficiently antiquated is going to bring down the nationwide communication network. Verizon's only excuse for getting their devices late is several kilometers of red tape. Secondly, if I remember correctly, the XV6600 is a rebranding of an AudioVox phone You're thinking of the PPC-6600/6601 on Sprint, which is a different branding of the HTC Harrier. I've never seen the Audiovox name officially connected to the Verizon version. It's true that Audiovox is involved with HTC's phones, but I suspect that it's a brand-recognition deal, with Audiovox lending their name to sufficiently high-quality hardware in exchange for a chunk of cash. There's way too much invested in bringing a product like this to market (and a very high product failure rate, by the way) for any partner in the process to just rely blindly on the engineering work of the others. May I point out that this has absolutely nothing to do with our original point? You're trying to obfuscate. In any event, ordering from HTC is hardly risky business. They're the number one manufacturer of smartphones, both Palm and Pocket PC, in the world. They made about a billion dollars last year. Their client list is nearly as long as Microsoft's list of WM licensees, and has most of the same names. Their PPC phones are sold under dozens of different brands without reengineering. They are the ultimate push-button developer. You wouldn't need specialized Microsoft-only engineers to get a device ordered from them. Anyway, my point wasn't that the absence of job postings for Win CE engineers was some kind of "proof" that there's no Windows Mobile Treo in the works. Funny, because it seems to me that that's exactly what you were implying. I just thought it was interesting after all the discussion of the Linux postings and the speculation about the WM Treo that no one had tried connecting the dots yet. Ah. I'll take that as a concession, then. Ummm... Ryan, why were my posts deleted?The_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/27/2005 5:37:35 PM #
I don't believe anything inappropriate, obscene or inflammatory was said. If my posts contravened some new posting guideline, please let us know here. And if Palm has told you to delete my posts if you want to keep getting their advertising revenue, please let us know. I'll understand and stop posting to PIC if you're going to have to censor everything that I write. TVoR ------------------------ The Palm eCONomy = Communism™ RE: No Windows jobs at Palm
TVoR, why don't you give politeness a try? You're a smart guy. I have a hard time believing you're not aware that you are the rudest poster in this forum. Just tone it down a notch so you can make your points and Ryan doesn't have to worry about you scaring people away and messing up his business.
RE: No Windows jobs at PalmThe_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/27/2005 5:55:28 PM #
TVoR wrote: HTC will provide Palm with a turnkey Treo 700 solution - NO effort on Palm's end required (just like they like it). Well, then, we've heard it from our anonymous expert. Palm doesn't need engineers anymore because they don't need to know how their products work. They can just outsource all their R&D, product development, and support and simply be in the business of putting shiny orange badges on stuff and picking up the checks when they come in. It's a lean and mean business model, I'll say that for it. My point, by the way, was this: why draw conclusions about what Palm's Linux plans are from looking at their employment site if you're not going to draw similar conclusions about their Windows Mobile plans?
Your point about PalmLinux is moot if you accept the (logical) arguments I've made elsewhere that PalmLinux is Palm's only hope of ensuring a longterm future. Obviously Palm feels that the shortterm profits that will be generated by sales of the WinMob Treos are worth the damage selling WinMob devices will do to the PalmOS platform. Given that Palm cannot predict whether or not PalmLinux would be ready before the company spirals into bankruptcy, the decision to enter the Windows Mobile world was a necesssary evil. As was the case with those in favor of acquiring Handspring winning out over the (departed) naysayers, the greenlighting of PalmLinux + WinMob Treos and the pulling of the plug on that Cobalt Parasite (remember the movie, "Alien"?) are evidence that the people now making decisions at Palm/PalmSource understand what needs to be done. The next step - the Reunificatioon of Palm (RoP), will finally end all the games, smoke + mirrors and cloak + dagger nonsense that have made a mockery of the platform. A lean, mean, focused Palm with a full lineup of 2 PalmLinux Treos, 2 PalmLinux traditional PDAs and a Windows Mobile Treo + ownership of PalmOS is what Palm needs to become. ASAP.
------------------------ The Palm eCONomy = Communism™ To save POS PSRC has to ....
If POS want to ride to coat tails of Linux to survival and success, surely they need to also: 1) Open source POS Cobalt and Garnet Of course all of these reduces the royalties and profitability of the company, but Monte vista and Red Hat shows a) companies can make money of consulting even open products Of course I believe going toe to toe on the same battlefield with WM and Symbian will kill POS, but Linux has shown that even big companies are very vulnerable to the ambush style attack of open source software. Surur Solly Cholly [Surur].The_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/27/2005 6:44:01 PM #
If POS want to ride to coat tails of Linux to survival and success, surely they need to also: 1) Open source POS Cobalt and Garnet Of course all of these reduces the royalties and profitability of the company, but Monte vista and Red Hat shows a) companies can make money of consulting even open products Of course I believe going toe to toe on the same battlefield with WM and Symbian will kill POS, but Linux has shown that even big companies are very vulnerable to the ambush style attack of open source software. Surur
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Layout_engine_usage_share.png
------------------------ The Palm eCONomy = Communism™ RE: No Windows jobs at Palm
Of course that led to Firefox, despite them throwing out all the Mozilla code. I expect they will throw out most of garnet also. And now the Revenge of Netscape is making a slow comeback. 2012: The year of POS ;) Surur RE: No Windows jobs at PalmPenguinPowered @ 8/27/2005 7:26:54 PM #
>> You can't design phones with a particular OS in mind and >> then have a third party build them for you unless you know >> enough about that OS to factor it into your hardware design >> tradeoffs and to manage the work being done for you by the >> third party. > Who said Palm was designing anything? Well, there's no reason for them to be in business if all they're going to do is sell somebody else's phone running somebody else's software. That's a cutthroat business, and Palm's not about managing razor thin margins. Open sourcing Palm OS
If POS want to ride to coat tails of Linux to survival and success, surely they need to also: 1) Open source POS Cobalt and Garnet Of course all of these reduces the royalties and profitability of the company, but Monte vista and Red Hat shows. The two most common arguments against open sourcing Palm OS are that (i) licensing it under GPL makes it more difficult to persuade potential licensees to pay for a commercial license and (ii) it could provide competing hardware manufacturers with a free OS. However, if Palm were to only open source Palm OS for PDAs (not smartphones) then these problems disappear as (i) there aren't any potential licensees queueing up to license Palm OS for their PDAs and (ii) all the other PDA hardware manufacturers are Microsoft licensees and are very unlikely to break with their commitments to stick exclusively with MS. The benefits of open source are well known, and right now Palm looks like it could use all the help it can get. RE: No Amiga jobs at PalmThe_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/27/2005 8:16:47 PM #
Of course that led to Firefox, despite them throwing out all the Mozilla code. I expect they will throw out most of garnet also. And now the Revenge of Netscape is making a slow comeback. 2012: The year of POS ;) Surur The parallels between Palm, Apple, Netscape and Be are quite tragic. Cobalt = Copeland = BeOS? [Palm Apologist Mode = ON] Whatever happens to PalmOS, there's no denying that - as long as you don't ask too much from it - as a PDA OS it was brilliantly designed. Haitani and Hawkins absolutely nailed the original design. PalmOS just plain WORKS and for a lot of people (including me) PalmOS 5 is currently "good enough". [Palm Apologist Mode = OFF] But someone needs to remind Palm that the further they fall behind their competitors in terms of features, the less persuasive the "good enough" argument will be. Eventually, if the exodus of users from the platform reaches a critical mass, the Netscape history will be repeated, this time starring Palm, Eric B, Eddie C, PéPé G, and a lot of leeches. PalmOS reminds me of that brainy kid in high school that ended up becoming a pothead and dropping out of school. Drifted around for years but never could keep a job. Lived off the generosity of old friends until they got tired of his mooching and utter laziness. Died penniless and alone. So much wasted potential...
------------------------ The Palm eCONomy = Communism™ RE: No Windows jobs at PalmAdamaDBrown @ 8/27/2005 10:01:34 PM #
Well, there's no reason for them to be in business if all they're going to do is sell somebody else's phone running somebody else's software. That's a cutthroat business, and Palm's not about managing razor thin margins. By that logic, Palm needs to kill the Treo 650 right now. It's running another company's software, and it's built by HTC. RE: No Windows jobs at PalmPenguinPowered @ 8/27/2005 11:14:38 PM #
>> Well, there's no reason for them to be in business if all >> they're going to do is sell somebody else's phone running >> somebody else's software. That's a cutthroat business, and >> Palm's not about managing razor thin margins. > By that logic, Palm needs to kill the Treo 650 right now. Nice job of cutting to destroy context. We were talking about the design of the phone, not the construction, when I mentioned "somebody else's phone." HTC didn't design the 650, as you were suggesting they could do with the next phone. Palm did. That's their value add in the hardware. RE: No Windows jobs at PalmAdamaDBrown @ 8/27/2005 11:36:44 PM #
It wouldn't be any less Palm's design just because it's built by HTC. Look at the photos of the 670--are you telling me that that's not a Treo? HTC can easily design a device around any form-factor or styling the buyer gives them. That's what they DO. Dell brought them the X3 design, originally from Wistron, and HTC turned it into the X30--brand new, vastly superior hardware in an identical case. I'm not even sure that HTC didn't do the redesign for the Treo 650. Marty, your arguments just keep getting weaker every day.The_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/28/2005 12:02:41 AM #
>> Well, there's no reason for them to be in business if all >> they're going to do is sell somebody else's phone running >> somebody else's software. That's a cutthroat business, and >> Palm's not about managing razor thin margins. > By that logic, Palm needs to kill the Treo 650 right now. Nice job of cutting to destroy context. We were talking about the design of the phone, not the construction, when I mentioned "somebody else's phone." HTC didn't design the 650, as you were suggesting they could do with the next phone. Palm did. That's their value add in the hardware. How odd. The quote appears to stand on its own quite well. First of all, it's a fairly trivial matter for HTC to design a smartphone. As an ODM, that's what they do. Secondly, Palm now has a longstanding history of outsourcing engineering. While Handspring got their hands dirty and built the Treo 600 hardware and OS essentially from scratch (a truly impressive feat coming from such a tiny company with limited resources), Palm on the other hand has not created a successful design on their own in ages. Thirdly while it's usually difficult to come up with a revolutionary, fresh design (like the Treo 600 was) it's not hard to subsequently plagiarize such a design and create similar - but improved - versions. In fact, incremental upgrades have been Palm's M.O. for years, from Pilot 1000 -> IIIxe; V -> m5xx; Tungsten E -> Tungsten 5; Tungsten T -> T³. With the templates of the Treo 650 and their past experience creating numerous Windows Mobile devices, HTC could have done the Treo 700 work practically blindfolded. Subsequent incremental models from Palm will likely require little more than a phone call requesting better camera/better screen/more memory/Wi-Fi/better battery/new OS version, etc. Palm is no longer an PDA company, much like Apple is no longer a computer company. Both are now merely brands applied to hardware derived from old designs, manufactured by for-hire ODMs. The Golden Age of PDAs is dead. These are now commodity items. Solly Cholly. It's looking more and more like like you're going to end up being another BubbaSteve here. If you don't start defending yourself better, you're going to get another Standing 8 count, Marty. TVoR ------------------------ The Palm eCONomy = Communism™ RE: No Windows jobs at Palm
Hey all; Just thought I'd peek in here and say hi. The WM5 Treo is real and coming. Neither of my sources know the time. That's all for now. Ima hide under my rock some, less pressure to breathe there ;) RE: No Windows jobs at PalmThe_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/30/2005 9:47:36 PM #
The WM5 Treo is real and coming. Neither of my sources know the time.
A Cobalt Treo is real. No idea if it is coming, if so it would be this fall to another source. HTC and HS designed the 600 and 650. Palm tweaked, HTC built. According to Shadomite, there is an HTC boot loader built into the 650's ROM. If you will, the 650 was preped from the onset as possibly running WM. Its missing some routines according Shadomite, but possible to boot Linux on there he thinks. If this is the case, Palm hiring Linux dev (people who can do what Shadomite is teaching himself) works to their advantage whether they purchase PS or not. WinMob Treo probably by December, 2005. Like the Oswin phone, now that WinMob, PalmOS, etc use similar hardware it's only natural for hardware manufacturers to start consolidating designs. Imagine the same hardware capable of running PalmOS 5, PalmOS 6, PalmLinux, WinMob, XXXXXXXLinux, etc. Palm has to hire more Linux people ASAP because they will need to be able to start accelerating PalmLinux development when they take over the OS. Palm will NOT be making their own Linux OS. No one has 3 years to spare creating another PalmOS from scratch. ------------------------ The Palm eCONomy = Communism™
Apologists vs. Critics
PenguinBoy, Beers, and the BCSA all have some vested interest in PSRC/PALM succeeding. The critics here aren't beholden to anyone - except fellow customers. Remember that. RE: Apologists vs. CriticsPenguinPowered @ 8/27/2005 4:10:24 PM #
> PenguinBoy, Beers, and the BCSA all have some vested interest > in PSRC/PALM succeeding. Sorry, I have no vested interest in any company succeeding. The only vested interest I _ever_ allow myself in an employer is the two-week horizon of whether or not the latest paycheck will clear the bank. The one time when it didn't, I found another employer. > The critics here aren't beholden to anyone - except fellow Of course, you should also remember that the 'critics' tend to like anonymity, so there's no way to tell who, if anyone, they are beholden to. Combine that with Skippy's pathological preoccupation with "outing" those who disagree with them makes one a tad cynical about their claims of disinterest. Here's how I handle that in general: I weigh people's arguments as arguments. If they can make their case, I don't care what their motivation for doing so was. If they can't make the case, I don't care what their motivation for failing to do so was. Your mileage will vary. RE: Apologists vs. Critics
Gekko: PenguinBoy, Beers, and the BCSA all have some vested interest in PSRC/PALM succeeding. Damn, Gekko, you're good! I should have guessed you'd see through my diabolical plan. I was so sure I'd be able to single-handedly keep the Palm OS alive and thereby realize untold wealth by posting commments on the PalmInfocenter web site. But now you meddling kids have gone and ruined everything.
RE: Apologists vs. Critics
Beersie - you have no real power in this world Hey, you're the one who suggested that me hanging out with a bunch of trolls on PIC was part of a grand marketing plan for my company. I'm just here for the fun of it. In any case, as you will notice if you take a look at my company, we develop for Windows Mobile, Symbian, and J2ME phones as well as Palm OS. I enjoy shooting down specious arguments about the impending doom of Palm OS just because I enjoy a good argument and because I am personally a Palm enthusiast, not because I've got some kind of financial stake. What I find amusing, quite frankly, is the notion that apparently is prevalent here that companies like PalmSource and Palm would pay any attention at all to what happens in a forum like this. Get real! The people who post here represent what? a couple dozen customers, at most? And how many are reading what you post? I really don't know, but the idea that more than a handful would be influenced in a way that would affect the bottom line of PSRC/PALM is absolutely ludicrous. C'mon! Hopefully all of us do this for fun, not because we think we have some kind of "power." Sheesh, it's embarrassing even to use the word like that.
RE: Apologists vs. Critics
> The critics here aren't beholden to anyone - except fellow customers. Remember that. Really? Then why is that so many of the Whiners just parrot the spin coming out of pocketpcthoughts.com. 'Something is rotten in the state of Denmark'. RE: Apologists vs. CriticsAdamaDBrown @ 8/31/2005 3:29:24 AM #
Svrontis, you really need to relax. If you actually bother to look at PPCT, you'll notice that they don't post anti-Palm articles, save for the rare instances where Ed Hansberry gets off his leash and goes editorial--and even then they're usually quite mild compared to the discontent that you see here. Most people on PPCT don't use Palm, and therefore have no reason or desire to complain about it. You can see ten times more anti-Windows rhetoric in a trip though PIC than you would anti-Palm material on a similar ride through PPCT. RE: Apologists vs. CriticsThe_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/31/2005 11:49:20 AM #
> The critics here aren't beholden to anyone - except fellow customers. Remember that. Really? Then why is that so many of the Whiners just parrot the spin coming out of pocketpcthoughts.com. 'Something is rotten in the state of Denmark'. That quote was mine and I've never even heard of pocketpcthoughts.com - nice try, though. TVoR ------------------------ The Palm eCONomy = Communism™ RE: Apologists vs. CriticsPenguinPowered @ 8/31/2005 1:34:34 PM #
>> The critics here aren't beholden to anyone - except fellow >> customers. Remember that. > That quote was mine and I've never even heard of Um, Skippy? That quote is from a posting by Gekko. You aren't, by any chance, also Gekko, are you Skippy? RE: Apologists vs. Critics
PenguinBoy - please just get back to work on PLinux or whatever the hell it is that you do. nothing you have to say is even remotely interesting or entertaining and you serve no purpose here other than to annoy people and waste bandwith. thank you. RE: Apologists vs. CriticsThe_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/31/2005 5:16:10 PM #
Um, Skippy? That quote is from a posting by Gekko. You aren't, by any chance, also Gekko, are you Skippy? Actually, the Denmark quote was from one of my posts, Marty. The repeated blows to the head you have received since arriving here must have left you confused. Please see your doctor. I'm worried about you. ------------------------ The Palm eCONomy = Communism™ RE: Apologists vs. CriticsThe_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/31/2005 10:23:14 PM #
I was quoting a poet who wrote those words over 300 years ago. Bob Dylan? ------------------------ The Palm eCONomy = Communism™ RE: Apologists vs. CriticsThe_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/31/2005 10:54:01 PM #
PenguinBoy, Beers, and the BCSA all have some vested interest in PSRC/PALM succeeding. The critics here aren't beholden to anyone - except fellow customers. Remember that. Well said Gekko. When was the last post you remember seeing defending Palm/PalmSource that WASN'T made by either a PalmSource employee or a software developer whose livelihood depends on PalmOS? (Or a shrill hack (JK) that wants to work for Palm?) ------------------------ The Palm eCONomy = Communism™ RE: Apologists vs. CriticsPenguinPowered @ 9/1/2005 2:49:08 AM #
Gekko (or was it Skippy?) wrote > thank you. You're welcome. So which one is the sockpuppet, you or skippy? RE: Apologists vs. Critics
> When was the last post you remember seeing defending Palm/PalmSource that WASN'T made by either a PalmSource employee or a software developer whose livelihood depends on PalmOS? (Or a shrill hack (JK) that wants to work for Palm?) And, for that matter, when was the last time you Whiners had anything to say that was not spoonfed to you by Mr Hansberry? RE: Apologists vs. CriticsThe_Voice_of_Reason @ 9/1/2005 10:57:13 PM #
Gekko (or was it Skippy?) wrote > thank you. You're welcome. So which one is the sockpuppet, you or skippy? Looks like someone [Marty] is getting his [Marty] a$$ kicked and is now hoping puerile taunts will obfuscate the REAL issues. Keep it up, Mr. Fouts. TVoR ------------------------ The Palm eCONomy = Communism™ RE: Apologists vs. Critics
So what's the latest word in Palmdom? The rumor mill's gone relatively quiet as of the later part of this week. Is everyone's attention (rightfully) focused on the horrors in New Orleans or is this just the calm before the "October storm" (NO PUN/DISRESPECT INTENDED) of Palm's fall releases & Palm starts up the formal process of the PalmSource acquisition?
I need to figure out fairly soon whether to try and slog on through with my T5/BT phone combo, follow Gekko's advice and go for a Treo 650 sooner than later or wait and see what's on the immediate horizon.
No Linux listings on Palm jobs siteAdamaDBrown @ 8/27/2005 7:00:59 PM #
I just checked, and there are absolutely no results on the Palm jobs site related to Linux. Mistake? Coverup? FYI. RE: No Linux listings on Palm jobs site
Actually there are piles of Linux related jobs. Jobs Home > Job Search > CA > Sunnyvale > > Palm > Linux Engineer, Mobile Handsets http://tinyurl.com/cmyqt From reading 10-20 of the job adverts, I have become quite convinced that : The content of the job adverts do not mention customization, but writing software from scratch, including quite a few to write cdma and GSM stacks, even bluetooth stacks. Isn't that supposed to be PalmSource's job. Summary: Surur RE: No Linux listings on Palm jobs site
No, they're there. Here's one: Linux Engineer, Mobile Handset Job Description: As a Linux Engineer, you will play a key role in the architecture, design and implementation of enabling technologies for a new generation of Palm devices. Working as part of the overall system team, you will work on the underlying support for various software applications. Duties/Responsibilities: Responsible for the design and development of components of a new software platform....
RE: No Linux listings on Palm jobs siteAdamaDBrown @ 8/27/2005 9:51:04 PM #
Odd, they didn't show up for me when I tried earlier. Palm to buy out PalmSource + take control of PalmLinux.The_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/27/2005 10:35:40 PM #
From reading 10-20 of the job adverts, I have become quite convinced that : a) Palm (one) is very serious about Linux on a handheld b) They are still at a very early stage c) They intend to do it without PalmSource. The content of the job adverts do not mention customization, but writing software from scratch, including quite a few to write cdma and GSM stacks, even bluetooth stacks. Isn't that supposed to be PalmSource's job. Summary: Surur Palm is about to buy PalmSource, Surur. Once the Reunification of Palm is completed, the development of PalmLinux can accelerate with new hired hands on board. Since it doesn't make sense for Palm to be doing PalmLinux work on its own prior to the Reunification (unless PalmSource is already working in conjunction with Palm on PalmLinux development) this would suggest PalmSource will probably get bought out BEFORE 2006! TVoR's BOLD prediction: Palm will SHOCK the industry and announce the PalmSource buyout. Soon. Very soon. (Would next week be soon enough?) ;-O ------------------------ The Palm eCONomy = Communism™ RE: No Linux listings on Palm jobs sitePenguinPowered @ 8/27/2005 11:22:21 PM #
> From reading 10-20 of the job adverts, I have become quite > convinced that : There are, at this time, 74 jobs posted at the URL you gave. Of these, it looks like exactly _none_ require linux expertize. > a) Palm (one) is very serious about Linux on a handheld Huh. Even though none of the positions, not even the ones labeled "Linux" in the title, require Linux expertise? That's quite a leap. > The content of the job adverts do not mention customization, There's a range of software jobs showing at the URL, including such items as developer support. More than a few mention customization. > Summary: Well, one would think that they would find one or more jobs with qualifications like: "Skills/Experience: 7+ years of experience working with Linux kernel" in the ads of a company that was trying to go it alone in Linux. RE: No Linux listings on Palm jobs sitePenguinPowered @ 8/28/2005 12:13:48 AM #
On 23 August, Skippy writes: > All things considered, the Palm [buyout of PalmSources] is On 27 August, Skippy writes: > this would suggest PalmSource will probably get bought out Skippy, a word of advice: take notes. You're not keeping your own stories straight. But please, don't do it on my account, I'm getting too many laughs out of watching you waffle. Pump and dump Vs. PalmSource buyout within days? You decide.The_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/28/2005 12:52:44 AM #
Nice to see you're tracking my posts better than your tracking what your Astroturfing personality should be aware of, Marty. The 2006 date was an estimate based on the expectation that Palm would be willing to live off WinMob Treo profits for a while as they wait for PalmLinux to mature and PalmSource stock to drop well below $5. In the past couple of days there have been rumors (VICIOUS RUMORS) suggesting the takeout date is sooner than I had predicted. (I had actually first predicted the 2006 takeout date back in 2004, but who's counting...) PalmSource's stock shot up over 25% in a couple days based on this "news". While this may end up being yet another "pump and dump" of one of the most manipulable stocks around, the tea leaves point towards an impending sell-off. I hope you have specified that PalmSource pays you in CASH ONLY, Marty. Shalom TVoR ------------------------ The Palm eCONomy = Communism™ RE: No Linux listings on Palm jobs sitePenguinPowered @ 8/28/2005 4:02:42 AM #
>the tea leaves point towards an impending sell-off. Ah, Skippy. "tea leaves". When one gets right down to it, even the tea leaf readers are better at guessing than you seem to be. Whatever happened to that great conviction of yours, mere days ago, that you were crowing about? You remember, the one where you were bragging that you had predicted both why and when Palm would buy out (not 'sell-off' Skippy. A sell-off is when you dump a losing stock) PalmSource? The bold claims about Palm waiting until PalmSource's stock had gotten below $5, Skippy? You've abandonded those already? Not much faith in your own arguments, there Skippy, if you can abandon them because of a two day run up in stock prices? On the other hand, a two day run up in stock prices is a major improvement over your other arguments. At least it's real. One does wonder, though, who bought all that stock. But you're letting me down, Skippy. Such mundane arguments. Where's your conspiracy theory? Where's your evidence of stock manipulation? You'd think with some of the stuff that's been in the news in the last couple of weeks you'd be able to cobble together something better than "there are rumors"... RE: No Linux listings on Palm jobs site
I thought the beauty of Linux was that the kernel was written already, and already implemented for smartphones and the arm processor. 847-6-MH160 Duties/Responsibilities: - Responsible for the design and development of components of a new software platform 847-6-MH160 As a Linux Engineer, you will play a key role in the architecture, design and implementation of enabling technologies for a new generation of Palm devices. Working as part of the overall system team, you will work on the underlying support for various software applications. Duties/Responsibilities: - Design and develop components of a new software platform 800-6-MH160 Overview: Palm, Inc. is seeking a Software Engineer to join its Data Networking software development team. This is an exciting opportunity to join a fast-paced and highly motivated development team responsible for core data networking protocols and features across all Palm, Inc. smartphone and PDA products. Duties/Responsibilities: - Design, develop and debug TCP/IP software and related system features - Participate in all phases of software development cycle: requirements gathering, design, implementation, code reviews, unit and integration testing - Work closely with other Data Networking team engineers and other teams to identify and resolve technical issues Qualifications: - 5+ years of experience implementing and troubleshooting data networking software - Experience with Embedded Real-Time Operating Systems - Experience with TCP/IP protocol analysis - Experience with PalmOS, Linux and other operating systems TCP/IP implementations is highly desirable 334-6-MH160 Duties/Responsibilities: The Software Engineer will design and implement the wireless web browser for our future smartphone and handheld products. He/she will help us invent new ways to improve the performance and layout of web content on mobile devices; work collaboratively with a multidisciplinary team to successfully take the software through the entire development cycle (design, implementation, maintenance); and help define and implement web-based and other applications and technologies for our mobile devices. Additionally, he/she will respond to customer and developer issues inside and outside of the company, troubleshoot problems, and respond with recommendations, patches or upgrades as appropriate. They are dropping blazer/netfront some time 334-6-MH160 Duties/Responsibilities: - Design and implement the wireless web browser for our future smartphone and handheld products - Help us invent new ways to improve the performance and layout of web content on mobile devices - Work collaboratively with a multidisciplinary team to successfully take the software through the entire development cycle (design, implementation, maintenance) - Help define and implement web-based and other applications and technologies for our mobile devices - Respond to customer and developer issues inside and outside of the company, troubleshoot problems, and respond with recommendations, patches or upgrades as appropriate
- Experience in several software projects from design through delivery; demonstrated design skills; proficient C and C++ coding and debugging skills, good problem solving skills - Project experience designing and implementing software user interfaces - Knowledge of markup languages and data transport protocols, such as HTML, CSS, Javascript, WML, XHTML, DHTML, XML, TCP/IP, HTTP and SSL - Demonstrated success working in collaborative team projects - Excellent communication skills, both verbal and written - Significant project experience developing software for Palm OS, UNIX |
Still waiting for Cobalt...Garnet 5.99999999999999999999999 will not cut it in 2006.