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Comments on: Windows Mobile Palm Treo 700w Exposed

Engadget is the first to get their hands on a Palm Treo 700w, the long rumored Windows Mobile powered Treo. It's official name is the Treo 700w, which could possible indicate that a 700p that runs a version of the Palm OS could also be in the works.
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Why reveal this hours BEFORE earnings?

SeldomVisitor @ 9/22/2005 2:32:34 PM # Q
Didn't have any effect on the stock price though - interesting.

RE: Why reveal this hours BEFORE earnings?
Ezra4no1 @ 9/22/2005 4:33:31 PM # Q
Neither did the Treo 300 when it was first introduced by Handspring.

http://mypdacorner.blogspot.com/
RE: Why reveal this hours BEFORE earnings?
AdamaDBrown @ 9/22/2005 4:42:02 PM # Q
Palm didn't exactly choose to reveal this. Besides which, I doubt that many Wall Street investors read Engadget.

RE: Why reveal this hours BEFORE earnings?
SeldomVisitor @ 9/22/2005 4:43:49 PM # Q
But, given the just-reported results, we may have a clue why they released that info...

Reply to this comment

Congratulations to Ryan and PalmInfocenter

ChiA @ 9/22/2005 2:32:13 PM # Q
on being fastest off the mark for Palm news amongst all the Palm websites; not even Google can find the Treo 700w!

"What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog" - Dwight D. Eisenhower
RE: Congratulations to Ryan and PalmInfocenter
Admin @ 9/22/2005 2:43:04 PM # Q
Thanks ChiA, the credit here goes to Peter and Engadget for getting the scoop on the 700w.
holy crap!
legodude522 @ 9/22/2005 2:43:28 PM # Q
First thing I said "oh ****!" I wonder what this means. Sign of the acopalsys to come? The second coming of Mike Cane?

Palm m125 December 25, 2003 to March 24 2004 > palmOne Zire 71 March 24, 2004 to March 31, 2005. Tapwave Zodiac 1 April 18, 2005 to present.
RE: Congratulations to Ryan and PalmInfocenter
InsGuy @ 9/22/2005 2:45:56 PM # Q
"The second coming of Mike Cane?"

:)


All good things...

Reply to this comment

Specs aren't really that great...

InsGuy @ 9/22/2005 2:57:28 PM # Q
It may be just me, but I think some of the specs of this unit are pretty bad. That's a terrible screen, and no Wifi; what's up with that? I think I'll pass on this one too (sadly, I've had to say that a lot about recent Palm offerings). :(

All good things...
RE: Specs aren't really that great...
twizza @ 9/22/2005 3:24:45 PM # Q
the RAM aint the ROM; WM5 needs at least 128 to give head room for OS and apps. the 64 is runtime space.

mobileministrymagazine.com
antoinerjwright.com
RE: Specs aren't really that great...
AdamaDBrown @ 9/22/2005 4:25:17 PM # Q
Chances are that leaving WiFi out is a sop to the carriers, particularly Verizon and Sprint, who want people to sign up for their EVDO service.

RE: Specs aren't really that great...
LiveFaith @ 9/22/2005 4:56:36 PM # Q
64MB of what kind of memory? WM handles things differently and 64MB aint 64MB when talking in Palm OS footprint terms, even NVFS. Sounds like Palm is being true to it's recent character ... skimping on specs. Hopefully I'm wrong.

Also, I know the 240x240 rez incompatibility has been beaten to death. But here again Palm skimps on features and lays an egg. The Treo 650 with 1/2 the physical memory will have better specs ... except for the WiFi compat.

Wow, it seems to me that if this is your cash cow and the Treo name is your flagship to lead into the future, then you would go for the jugular and give it the memory and rez to do it.

By this statement, Palm is hastening defeat in it's smartfone leadership. Once again, I'm baffled.

One side note. I would like to see the 650 side by side with this device. I'm sorry, but since the first photos came out this squarish look is terribly kludgy looking. The Treo 600 began with iPod-like beauty and form couple with funtionality. Whoever they let make adjustments is putting white walls and hubcaps on the companies Corvette. Maybe physical sight can redeem it?

Sorry to be so negative, but I think that logo on a Palm device switches on some real negative psychologies in me. It just seems that for your big splash into WM (cesspool?), that you would want the press releases and the buzz to be more about the "cutting edge productivity possibilities" ... or ... "blending of the best of the best" .. or ... "Gates - Hawkins exponential empowerment" or something. But, with the downgraded screen and functional sideways storage this yawner will evoke little more than "Is Palm making the Right Choice or Not?".

If only they had delivered the Treo 800g, we could have ruled the world. :-|

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Specs aren't really that great...
ackmondual @ 9/22/2005 5:26:44 PM # Q
240x240 res? That's gotta be "WM low-res", lower than QVGA. At least the lower res with the same sized screen is gonna be easier to view. The RAM makes sense. 64MB on WM is as constrained as 32MB for a pOS treo.
RE: Specs aren't really that great...
LiveFaith @ 9/22/2005 5:30:08 PM # Q
Oops. Sorry, here they are side by side. Now it's still a decent looking smartfone. But it just looks like Palm hired an accountant to take a copy of the Mona Lisa and make it look better. Every single line on it looks heavier and clunkier to me. The 4 hard buttons may be a little more ergo and possibly the thumboard.

http://img.engadget.com/common/images/3060000000046185.JPG?0.055509021227959976


ackmondual said ... <>

Huuuuh? View what ... the jaggies? You're gonna have to explain that one to me. My mind just did a soft-reset on that one?

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Specs aren't really that great...
LiveFaith @ 9/22/2005 5:35:45 PM # Q
I love this feature ... Landscape orientation provided by WM5! Man that does wonders on a square screen! :-)

http://img.engadget.com/common/images/3060000000046187.JPG?0.5326460025704068

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Specs aren't really that great...
ackmondual @ 9/22/2005 8:16:38 PM # Q
meh, ppl like LCDs over CRT monitors b/c of the less footprint. I actually used my T3 in landscape mode with the slider closed b/c of my own cramped workspace while listening to music.

Otherwise, a more useful feature would be handedness. It seems many lefties would kill to have the scrollbar to the left.

RE: Specs aren't really that great...
LiveFaith @ 9/23/2005 12:04:58 AM # Q
I'm out.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: Specs aren't really that great...
WareW01f @ 9/23/2005 1:29:09 PM # Q
Sad to see that the 240x240 is true (need to do more CE programming) Course the Garnet hi-rez hack is just that. So is it just me, or does anyone question why someone, as a CE person would choose a Treo over another CE phone. With the PalmOS, its not really like you have a choice, but you enter the CE market and you get to play with the likes of HP....

The other is the WiFi battle, some carriers may not want it, but T-Mobile won't carry it without it. What a joke!

Oh well. I'm still looking to the GSPDA camp for some comming innovation. I think the first company to make a flip with a thumb pad will get the gold on the phone side.

It's really to bad that Handspring didn't by Palm. The zen is gone. With people flocking for Moto Razors I think Palm is barking up the wrong (size) tree. At least PalmSource^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAccess has it's sights on the 'low end' Where's the cheap Zire of the Treo line?

RE: Specs aren't really that great...
AdamaDBrown @ 9/23/2005 7:39:35 PM # Q
"The likes of HP" is exactly why somebody would want a WM Treo. If you haven't been following HP's attempts at building a phone, the executive summary follows:

Attempt #1 was a full-size PocketPC with a unicorn antenna. Died on the vine.

Attempt #2 was a bulky jacket to give GSM functions to their existing PPCs. Died for lack of interest.

Attempt #3 actually made it to market as the iPaq h6315. Huge, slow, notoriously buggy, and substandard build quality. Was eventually taken out to the woods and shot.

Attempt #4, the iPaq hw6515, is in limbo. No carrier has picked it up, it's barely for sale, and OS support is in question.

Attempt #5, the iPaq hw6715, is also in limbo, many months away from release, and while it at least has WM5 and WiFi, it's future is uncertain.

Suffice it to say, HP's track record is dubious, at best.

RE: Specs aren't really that great...
arp @ 9/28/2005 6:45:48 PM # Q
Exactly - and I think this is a smart move by palm if you think of them as a hardware company only (which they are now). There may well be a huge unexploited market of people who like the looks of the treo but are winmob fans. It's not like palm has pulled the treo 650 from the market...

--
http://www.arpx.net/article.php/top_10_palmos_applications - my top 10 palm apps
Reply to this comment

Duct Tape?

4s @ 9/22/2005 3:00:15 PM # Q
What is that on the top of the screen? It looks like duct tape.

<><
RE: Duct Tape?
4s @ 9/22/2005 3:04:38 PM # Q
OOPS. Hit the button twice. I must really love duct tape.

<><
RE: Duct Tape?
sr4 @ 9/22/2005 3:08:56 PM # Q
They are still covering an ID number. This must still be a pre-release unit. I wonder if Palm did any customizations to the OS.

Surur

RE: Duct Tape?
4s @ 9/22/2005 3:13:44 PM # Q
Cool. Thanks.

<><
RE: Duct Tape?
twizza @ 9/22/2005 3:22:26 PM # Q
Its still a dev unit. No labels on buttons as well as ids being covered. VZW wont have it availiable till MAy-ish if the last two treo releases are standard.

mobileministrymagazine.com
antoinerjwright.com
wow, i thought it was transparent tape
ackmondual @ 9/22/2005 5:40:20 PM # Q
Duct tape makes so much more sense :x
RE: Duct Tape?
WareW01f @ 9/23/2005 1:24:27 PM # Q
If it's like the 650 there is a 4 character number on the front that *should* be traceable to the person/company that the device went to (in theory, whether Palm is that together is in question).

Reply to this comment

Wow i though i'd never see the two together

Frenchie @ 9/22/2005 3:32:19 PM # Q
Palm and Windows Mobile.


This is a sad day.

The world will end in 2006. Just as it was predicted in the bible along with the release of Microsoft Longhorn.... :p

RE: Wow i though i'd never see the two together
joej @ 9/22/2005 4:06:50 PM # Q
I agree - this is like seeing Windows running on my beautiful iMac - I feel like I am going to throw up.... This is not good. I long for the old days of unification - why, oh why, did they split?

Newton. Sharp Mobilon. Psion 5, 5mx. Visor Deluxe. Clie N760. Palm Personal, III, T, T2, T3. SE t68i on T-Mo.
RE: Wow i though i'd never see the two together
rmcalister @ 9/22/2005 4:09:26 PM # Q
Yes, this is a sad day.

Intel running Mac OS X, Palms running Windows Mobile...

Oh well.

RE: Wow i though i'd never see the two together
joej @ 9/22/2005 4:13:26 PM # Q
If Palm tanks I will go to Symbian. I will go back to a paper planner before I will use Windows Mobile.

Newton. Sharp Mobilon. Psion 5, 5mx. Visor Deluxe. Clie N760. Palm Personal, III, T, T2, T3. SE t68i on T-Mo.
RE: Wow i though i'd never see the two together
hkklife @ 9/22/2005 4:41:14 PM # Q
joel: No need to jump ship. Just buy two or three cheap Palm T|whatevers when signs of tanking are imminent and you should be good to go for a couple of years.

This is all, of course, the fault of Palm's penny-punching beancounters & past management. They set this chain of events rolling in '98/99ish by utterly failing to advance the platform past its hunble monochrome, basic PIM beginnings--NOT because of pressure from Sony etc. as some have hinted at on PIC in the past.

Frenchie/mcalister: (Pick your barnyard analogy here) This cash cow/workhorse/tired old mule of an OS has been ridden/milked as long as possible. They are going to put a WinMob saddle on the tired old Treo formfactor and give it one more round-up before the sun sets for good.

That said, I'll still take a FrankenGarnet Treo with comparable specs to this 700w variant. This makes the rumored specs we saw a month or so ago of an updated Palm-based Treo look VERY believable (64mb NVFS, 1mp camera, EVDO etc). With a slightly wider/larger 320*320 screen, the Palm-based Treo really becomes a more attractive proposition for those who care about their smartphone's display sizse & resolution. Especially if the 700p comes in @ an MSRP $100 less than the 700w. I like the countoured edges of that leaked Palm-based Treo much more than the angular edges & buttons on the 700w.

RE: Wow i though i'd never see the two together
bsquare @ 9/22/2005 4:42:32 PM # Q
>>This is not good. I long for the old days of unification - why, oh why, did they split?

- To milk the tail end of the dot-com boom for all it was worth
- Golden parachutes for the cracker jack execs who were running Palm into the ground
- Stock options for executive level veeps at Palm to cash out
- Mo' Money for those who didn't really need it anyway.
- 2 board of Directors = MORE $$$ for those execs.
- definately NOT for long term profit or for the good of the user

basically anything that may have ever resembled old-school tech culture had already been sucked out of Palm long ago and it was just the suits looking to cash out as much as possible at the expense of the hard working grunts and us users. Typical.



RE: Wow i though i'd never see the two together
javispedro @ 9/22/2005 4:48:45 PM # Q
I still think this is someone's joke gone too far.

RE: Wow i though i'd never see the two together
AdamaDBrown @ 9/22/2005 4:58:42 PM # Q
hkklife, maybe I'm missing something: why would a 700w cost more than a 700p?

javispedro, Engadget' credibility is impeccable. If they say they have one, they have one.

RE: Wow i though i'd never see the two together
hkklife @ 9/22/2005 5:09:20 PM # Q
Customer perception, plain & simple. MANY of these units will be sold to enterprise/corporate accounts, so it'd make sense to price them higher initially so the corporate discount discount doesn't make as drastic of a "hit" on VZW.

Remember, no one ever got fired for buying IBM..same concept applies here. The VZW sales staff can show the fancy media functions, the nifty menus & eye candy and tout that a WinMob Treo is easier to use/learn and has "better graphics".

The i730 currently sells for, what, $200-$250 more @ Verizon than does the Treo 650 and adds, what, wi-fi and a physically larger screen?

If $100 is too high then they can at least milk $50 more out of the 700w over the 700p.

RE: Wow i though i'd never see the two together
Sam H @ 9/22/2005 5:47:24 PM # Q
If Palm tanks I will go to Symbian. I will go back to a paper planner before I will use Windows Mobile.

If (when?) Palm OS tanks I'm going to Maemo. They should have found a better display layer by then. The current one (X) is so very, very slooow...

RE: Wow i though i'd never see the two together
whydidnt @ 9/22/2005 6:13:24 PM # Q
hkklife, the i730 has significantly more RAM, EvDO, Bluetooth Voice Dialing and a 2nd battery included. I think it's easy to see why it's more expensive than the 650. If the 700p has roughly the same specs as the 700w, I think the 700w is going to be a tough sell at $100 more. Especially since I don't believe that MS will allow Palm to modify the OS to the extent that they can with POS, meaning all that one handed goodness everyone loves will be compromised.

For someone who has been hoping Palm would realize a WM Treo, I am pretty disappointed in the announced Specs. It seems to me Palm thinks they can play the old don't give them everything else at once card so you can sell them the upgrade. Unfortunately, in the WM space they'll have to compete with others that are trying to give users everything.



RE: Wow i though i'd never see the two together
AdamaDBrown @ 9/22/2005 6:24:30 PM # Q
meaning all that one handed goodness everyone loves will be compromised.

Actually, WM5 comes with one-handed navigation, and the button layout in the photos (OK and Start menu buttons) shows that the 700w is equipped for it out of the box.

RE: Wow i though i'd never see the two together
hkklife @ 9/22/2005 7:22:02 PM # Q
whydidnt;

If you think the 700w is weak with its specs-for-the-$, just look at the new reports that the TX is launching at $450!! It makes the 700w look like a veritable bargain in comparison.

They're DOOMED with pricing like that!

RE: Wow i though i'd never see the two together
neuron @ 9/22/2005 10:46:47 PM # Q
are you sure? any link?

I can't believe that they will release the tx at $450. Don't treat PALM users as idiots.

RE: Wow i though i'd never see the two together
hkklife @ 9/22/2005 10:54:52 PM # Q
http://www.mobile-review.com/pda/articles/new-palm-en.shtml

As I said on a thread in the PIC forums, I believe they are taking the "European MSRP" price of the TX (in Euros) and converting it directly to a $ equivalent. Example: given the current Euro-->$USD exchange rates, $450 USD=~ 375 Euros.

That's probably how they are arriving at that figure (likely got leaked info from Palm's European or Asian distributor(s))

I'd HOPE to see the TX launch at $300. LIKELY it'll launch at 400 and end up at $350 within a few months (via rebate or outright price drop). $450 is just insane but don't put anything past Palm at this point.


RE: Wow i though i'd never see the two together
StatCoder.com @ 9/23/2005 10:08:03 AM # Q
Dr. Peter Venkman: Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together - mass hysteria.
RE: Wow i though i'd never see the two together
hkklife @ 9/26/2005 1:56:59 PM # Q
From Brighthand:

"Pricing and Availability
The Windows Mobile Treo will be available exclusively from Verizon Wireless early next year.

The price wasn't announced, but Palm warned that this device, because it has an EV-DO radio, is likely to be more expensive that the Treo 650"


I told ya so! Palm has, for the past couple years, really clobbered their remaining loyal customers who are early adopters--see the Treo 600, 650, LifeDrive, T|E2 and (likely) TX pricing strategies. Expect EVEN MORE OF THE SAME with this nifty new WinMob device, especially with the boatload of press attention attached to it. Good, bad, or otherwise, people will want to have one right away--kinda like the iPod Shuffle. The "trusted" M$ name is good for another $100 over the Treo 650's price w/ contract anyday.

Reply to this comment

The whole is less than the worth of each piece?

ackmondual @ 9/22/2005 5:29:31 PM # Q
Correct me if I'm wrong but among the pOS community, isn't Windows Mobile software on Palm hardware, a Treo no less a combination of each sides worst attributes? Do you guys really think this is gonna outsell the pOS Treos when there's gotta be at least half a dozen better WM/WM smartphone alternatives?

"Do you know the difference between an error and a mistake? Anyone can make an error, but that error doesn't become a mistake until you refuse to correct it."
-Grand Admiral Thrawn

the secret to enjoying your job is to have a hobby that's even worse

My PDAs: Visor --> Visor Neo (blue) --> Zire 71 --> Tungsten T3 (with 4 of 6 screws still remaining) ~?~> zodiac 2?

Off topic
ackmondual @ 9/22/2005 5:42:39 PM # Q
what does clicking on the '#' sign to the right of our usernames supposed to do? Advance on whole post?
RE: The whole is less than the worth of each piece?
VampireLestat @ 9/22/2005 6:01:35 PM # Q
I don't like this WM Treo. I hope it fails so that Palm will be forced to focus all efforts on improving their Palm OS devices.

RE: The whole is less than the worth of each piece?
just_little_me @ 9/22/2005 6:17:05 PM # Q
If this fails then PALM are dead in the water. Sad but true.


JLM.

RE: The whole is less than the worth of each piece?
AdamaDBrown @ 9/22/2005 6:18:49 PM # Q
The # sign provides a direct link to a given post, so that you can reference it elsewhere.

RE: OT: pound signs
SeldomVisitor @ 9/22/2005 6:39:55 PM # Q
Oh - cool - I've often wanted to link to individual PIC posts - now I can!

Thanks!

RE: The whole is less than the worth of each piece?
LiveFaith @ 9/23/2005 12:15:46 AM # Q
jlm,

I wouldn't go there. Palm seems akin to a mouse trap right now. The mouse trap has zero extra parts and cannot function without any one of them.

One slip by Palm and a buyout by Fisher-Price may be in the wings. WM Treo = immediate survival.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

Reply to this comment

Anger.

VampireLestat @ 9/22/2005 6:03:37 PM # Q
The more I read about this confirmed WM Treo, the angrier I get...

As a Palm OS enthousiast, I AM NOT HAPPY AT ALL!



RE: Anger.
sr4 @ 9/22/2005 6:22:00 PM # Q
http://surur.sytes.net/palmdenial.gif

You at stage 2 then. Only 3 more stages to go ;)

Surur

PS: Ryan, please let me post it.... pretty please...

RE: Anger.
VampireLestat @ 9/22/2005 6:47:16 PM # Q
Surur,

Take your cartoon and put it where the Sun don't shine.

Have a nice day.


RE: Anger.
Ronin @ 9/22/2005 9:13:20 PM # Q
I am not angry.
I am depressed.
It is truly a said day in Mudville.

In the Spirit of Umoja,
Ronin
RE: Anger.
spit @ 9/23/2005 12:25:15 AM # Q
I am angry as well. I've purchased several Treo's already but no more. I don't wish to support a WM collaborator. Can any one recommend any of these other smartphone makers for consideration in future?

http://www.palmsource.com/products/products.cgi?Cat=Smartphones



RE: Anger.
pmjoe @ 9/23/2005 7:21:33 AM # Q
I've been angry for the last two years. This has been like a train wreck in super-slow motion. I started looking at the Dell Axim this morning for my next PDA. It has been sad to watch the mis-management who made millions off the creation of this disaster. This is what you get in the "make a fast buck now economy" where all you care about is padding upper management's pockets before they move on to pilfer another company and squeezing an extra quarter penny out a share now at the expense of the long term. Anyone with half a brain knew the Palm platform needed an updated, modern OS. Instead they milked Palm OS 4 and 5 till the cow was dead.
RE: Anger.
T_W @ 9/23/2005 1:21:51 PM # Q
Yes, it truly is the beginning of the end. Time to look for the NBTAP (Next Big Think After Palm).

I'm sure the executives at Palm are sitting back thinking "well, we can afford to lose the enthusiast base, after all look at all the new corporate sales we are going to get".

I wouldn't be so sure. Enthusiasts evangalize (cue WM mega-troll Surur), influence other peoples purchases, provide a flow of ideas to the company, and in this case write the innovative new applications which keep the platform vibrant.

IMHO, companies (especially innovative tech companies) who abandon their enthusiast base become also-rans and shells of their former selves.

Don't agree with me? Well then how come Microsoft spends so much effort stroking their enthusiast community with Channel 9,
Scobelizer, Paul Thurrott, Got.Net, .NET Junkies, etc. etc? Look at how this affected Surur. He spends his entire life trolling Palm web sites trying to convert Palm users to WM users. He's probably gotten a few too.

I guess this puts the final nail in any hopes for an Apple-style revival with Jeff Hawkins back at Palm.

Onward and upward.

RE: Anger.
sr4 @ 9/23/2005 1:50:29 PM # Q

Is it trolling if its true?

Surur

RE: Anger.
T_W @ 9/23/2005 1:52:44 PM # Q
Yes, it trolling to be constantly posting to Palm enthusiast sites.

Why don't you spend 27 hours a day preaching to your PPC brethren (in whatever spider-hole they may live in)?

RE: Anger.
SeldomVisitor @ 9/23/2005 2:04:51 PM # Q
PALM said during their earnings CC that "enthusiasts" make up 72% of their customer base.

[their words were "28% have never owned a smartphone"]

RE: Anger.
sr4 @ 9/23/2005 2:43:08 PM # Q
But Palm does use PPC!! How can I be in the wrong place?

Surur

Reply to this comment

Its just a tool!

rkevwill @ 9/22/2005 6:56:32 PM # Q
Here's my take on this. So they come out with a treo with Windows Mobile. No one has to buy it, if they want to keep the Palm OS only. I am still using my Treo 600, and it does everything I need at present. (I don't need bluetooth right now) when mine bites the dust, or I get the itch to upgrade, I will probably go to the 650, unless something better is available. The treo 650 still doesn't support Wifi natively. Who knows if the 700p (if there is one) will support wifi. If thats what a person needs, but also wants a treo, there are a blue million different PPC wifi cards that will work. Palm's is tricky at best, and as we all know is not supported by the treo.

What we have at the present time, is an OS stuck in 2003, while WM is advancing. I prefer the POS, but its stuck in time, and will be so for another year or two. The way I figure it, if the 700w comes out, and is more advanced (with multitasking, wifi support etc) I may very well use one of these until palm offeres something better with a new POS. We all buy phones every year or two anyway.

Fortunately, I work almost exclusively on the mac, and don't have to fool with ActiveSync. Mac users have a couple of different fine programs to sync PPC's with.

After all, its just a tool, and you pick the best tool for the job! Its not like we are marrying the thing and have to live with it the rest of our life!

RE: Its just a tool!
LiveFaith @ 9/23/2005 12:19:12 AM # Q
No way you'll be with it the rest of your life. Digitizer drift will set in long before that. :-o

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
Reply to this comment

My Dealbreakers

Gekko @ 9/22/2005 7:02:53 PM # Q

1. 240x240 is unacceptable vs. 320x320.
2. I still prefer PalmOS over WM5.
3. I still prefer Palm Desktop over Outlook. (Which makes me wonder if the WM Treo will be able to sync with Palm Desktop out of the box?)

Sooner or later though, MSFT (and Palm) will get this WM Treo right and we will ALL succumb.



RE: My Dealbreakers
hkklife @ 9/22/2005 7:19:13 PM # Q
I agree with all of Gekko's points.

I'd take a Treo 650 over this 700w right now. If Palm does a 670p or a 700p it'll be a no-brainer over the 700w. BUT, give them 6 months to a year and if they are still in business/an independent entity, they'll produce a killer 480*480 or (even better) a clamshell 640*480 WinMob Treo and that'll be IT!


RE: My Dealbreakers
rkevwill @ 9/23/2005 12:02:55 AM # Q
Note engadget said it LOOKED like 240x240, they were not really sure yet, there may be more to come on that. I sure HOPE its not 240x240

RE: My Dealbreakers
LiveFaith @ 9/23/2005 12:20:44 AM # Q
Looks like I'll opt for the 800g. 320x480!

http://www.churchoflivingfaith.com/images/treo800g.jpg

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

Reply to this comment

Could there be other WinMob devices

4s @ 9/22/2005 10:26:33 PM # Q
So would it be possible/probable for there to be regular PDAs (not smartphones)from Palm running WinMob, since now it has been done with the Treo?

<><
RE: Could there be other WinMob devices
Gekko @ 9/22/2005 10:36:14 PM # Q

yes - look out for a WM Zire coming to a Circus City near you.

RE: Could there be other WinMob devices
cbowers @ 9/22/2005 11:31:53 PM # Q
Better yet, now that Palm's set precedant maybe finally we'll get it going the other way. Likely little chance yet of Access getting HP and Dell hardware with PalmOS just yet, but maybe anything else HTC is making since HTC's making the cross-dressing Treo's. How 'bout HTC Universal, Tornado, and Wizard running Garnet/Cobalt/Plinux...

RE: Could there be other WinMob devices
LiveFaith @ 9/23/2005 12:22:38 AM # Q
If Dell wanted to destroy Palm altogether, they should simply produce the X50p. Dream!

http://www.churchoflivingfaith.com/images/dellx50p.jpg

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

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Nagel and Mace

Gekko @ 9/23/2005 12:24:12 AM # Q

I'd love to know what those two are thinking now that the unthinkable has happened.



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Where oh where are svrontis and Dr. Opinion?

AdamaDBrown @ 9/23/2005 1:01:31 AM # Q
I'd love to see their reaction to this news, but after you couldn't have a thread without them a few days ago, now they've suddenly disappeared.

My view: this is a good and bad thing for Palm. Good side is that they're probably going to sell quite a lot of them. Bad side is that if the Palm-dumps-Palm issue is not handled skillfully, it could cause image problems, particularly at a time when Palm's handheld line is slumping.

Is it just me, or does the redesign of the case and the buttons look sleeker than the 650?

RE: Where oh where are svrontis and Dr. Opinion?
svrontis @ 9/23/2005 7:15:00 AM # Q
I'm here.

I saw the post and, without any contrary evidence, I guess I have to go with the flow and accept what appears to be the inevitable.

My suspicious little mind has a nagging question though - given Palm's limited resources, did they fund the development costs themselves or were they subsidised by somebody else?

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Message from Palm Inc.

VampireLestat @ 9/23/2005 1:12:56 AM # Q
WM Treo = "WE trust Microsoft, and so should you!"

Let's trust Microsoft!
orb2069 @ 9/23/2005 6:50:40 AM # Q
Yeah - I mean, look at all the good it did for all those previous WinCE manufs.... And Spyglass... And Stac Electronics...

1000->Personal->IRUpgrade->TRGPro->HE330->Treo 180->270
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They are as good as sure to have a bloody nose

Tamog @ 9/23/2005 8:29:37 AM # Q
Hi People,
If I am right, I beleive that they will earn themselves a bloody nose at best because ofn the strong competition!
Read more here:
http://tamspalm.blogspot.com/2005/09/treo-700w-why-i-beleive-that-it-will.html
Yes, flame me, I am too lazy to copy the post!
Best regards
Tam Hanna

Find out more about the Palm OS in my blog:
http://tamspalm.blogspot.com
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HTC's role

Bostonnerd @ 9/23/2005 8:25:00 AM # Q
I'm surprised nobody has brought up HTC's (possible) involvement in this. Palm outsourced their design, engineering, and manufacturing a long time ago. My take is that HTC did all the implimentation work and then presented it to Palm as a prototype. Given HTC's expertise in this area, I wouldn't have expected the R&D and porting costs to be significant, probably pretty minor actually. The mental giants running Palm saw this as a great (read really cheap) way to hedge their bets since all they needed to do was provide marketing and channel management (which they were already doing). All the heavy lifting was/is being done by HTC. For that matter, it really isn't a Palm device......it's an HTC device that Palm has allowed to be logo'd.
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CLUNK!

jackpipe @ 9/23/2005 11:40:04 AM # Q
I don't think it matters too much if this is running WM or PalmOS frankly. Its the same clunky old cr*p as the other treos. I have one (a 600), but concealed.

Maybe we'll get a less embarassing device sometime in the future.

Let's hope Hawkins' 'I could tell you but It'd blow your mind, and anyway I'd have to kill you' '3rd company within a company' stuff is a bit more edifying if it ever sees daylight.


RE: CLUNK!
SeldomVisitor @ 9/23/2005 11:57:33 AM # Q
Many of us believe Hawkins' two sets of comments are discuss distinct devices.

(1) The first comment made about a year ago (maybe a little less) "a couple years to a cool device that I can't talk about" still remains valid and suggests at least a year or so til intro.

(2) The second comment made a couple months ago (maybe a little more) " 'nother company with a third type of device" discusses the LifeDrive, a known sales failure.

RE: CLUNK!
Sam H @ 9/23/2005 12:00:40 PM # Q
Let's hope Hawkins' 'I could tell you but It'd blow your mind, and anyway I'd have to kill you' '3rd company within a company' stuff is a bit more edifying if it ever sees daylight.

Brace yourself...

That was the LifeDrive (Mobile Manager).

RE: CLUNK!
InsGuy @ 9/23/2005 2:40:52 PM # Q
"Brace yourself...

That was the LifeDrive (Mobile Manager)."

You are SURELY joking...aren't you?



All good things...

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I Like It!!

batmon @ 9/23/2005 3:52:09 PM # Q
Cool~! Buttons are bigger and WM5 supports Exchange emails "PUSH" that's similar to BlackBerry. Companys also can configure it so that if wrong password entered more then three times then it will delete all the data in the device. EV-DO is a big plus too. Glad that now I can download faster then 40Kbps.

Really hope that they will have 700p with the same WM5 Exchange Activesync in PalmOS. I don't like WM5 OS's interfaces...

Motorola Q is similar but I think Treo looks and feel much better.

http://www.motorola.com/motoinfo/product/details/0,,113,00.html



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Check in on Monday's PR bash with...

SeldomVisitor @ 9/23/2005 4:35:37 PM # Q
...Big Guys from PALM, MSFT, Verizon.

RE: Check in on Monday's PR bash with...
T_W @ 9/23/2005 6:02:28 PM # Q
Hey, what was the name of that battleship the Japanese surrendered on at the end of WW2?
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The latest rumor: res 480*480

neuron @ 9/24/2005 3:31:31 AM # Q
Some people claim that the resolution is 480*480 in sample treo 700w machine (Maybe not the final version), some games just take the left upper corner.



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