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Comments on: Rumor: More Info on the Palm TX and Z22

Palm Z22 handheldPalmInfocenter has learned that the final names for the upcoming fall Palm releases will be the Palm TX and Palm Z22. Palm is apparently dropping the sub-brands to highlight the strong Palm brand. Also new pictures of the devices have been posted.
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For God sakes!!!

Jeffry @ 9/23/2005 1:59:36 AM # Q
Drop that Tungsten E design!!!! That is so 2003...

RE: For God sakes!!!
Eternal_Visitor @ 9/23/2005 3:02:05 AM # Q
I agree, it was nice first time around, but it's getting old fast. (maybe they'll start over-using the lifedrive design next)

RE: For God sakes!!!
dagwud @ 9/23/2005 9:07:04 AM # Q
I disagree. It wasn't nice the first time around. (heh)

And, from the looks of the new Zire - they're already overusing the LifeDrive design. Too many similaries - and looks too much like a prop from Space:1999.

--
PalmPilot Pro (1997) -> III (1998) -> Vx (1999) -> m500 (2001) -> m515 (2002) -> ???

RE: For God sakes!!!
sremick @ 9/23/2005 9:39:57 AM # Q
I disagree. I think the form-factor is near ideal. They just need to ditch the plastic and go back to quality metal. Like the V, Vx, T, T2, T3...

My main beef is what's on the inside.

http://vtbsd.net/winhelp/

RE: For God sakes!!!
LiveFaith @ 9/23/2005 11:16:59 AM # Q
I can live even with the boring plastic form. Just quit putting 2002/3 components in the thing! BT2, WiFi(g), 624mhz, VGA (if you have an OS for it), dual slots, VR, vibralarm, LED etc. Especially if they call the TX a flagship @ $400 or $450!

Looks like 2005 will be another yawner and I'll have to pray for my T3s digi-drift will subside until something inspiring happens. Every year I'm becoming more cynical.



Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: For God sakes!!!
sremick @ 9/23/2005 12:09:27 PM # Q
Yeah, if they'd put in a charging LED, vibrating alert, voice recorder, a modern-speed CPU, and one other feature I won't name since I get raked over the coals for it every time... I'd deal with the plastic case.

Oh yeah, how about a cradle? Every Palm I've ever owned has had a cradle.

http://vtbsd.net/winhelp/

RE: For God sakes!!!
JKingGrim @ 9/23/2005 12:54:39 PM # Q
I was angry about the processor too, but I guess the argument for it is that the new intel chip sets are more efficient and faster, so this 312mhz chip would be the equivalent to what the T5 had, while saving batt life. I don't think there will be as many complaints if this thing has near TE2 battlife. As long as it can play HVGA videos no problem. Well, there's always over clocking.

Leaving out VR, vibrating, and LED is just plain stupid. Palm has officially left the high end market. They dropped the memory on this thing from the T5, then will discontinue the T5 even though it is want some people still want: no wifi, more mem, faster proc. Also, I hate this stupid new idea of lets get rid of the virtual home button so that people who use games and apps that make use of all four hard keys are screwed.

I hate Palm.

RE: For God sakes!!!
AdamaDBrown @ 9/23/2005 3:59:24 PM # Q
Actually, this processor is the exact same design as the T5, so they're equally efficient per MHz.

Absolute junk
UZI4U182 @ 9/25/2005 4:37:47 PM # Q
What is this? Two "new" devices? If anything, it's a huge leap backwards in the time of technology. A 160x160 screen with only 4,096 colors? 32mb ram? Palm OS 5??? Sad, truly sad.

UZI4U182@suscom.net
Main PDA: NX70v + WL100
http://clieflash.shorturl.com
RE: For God sakes!!!
Jeffry @ 9/27/2005 8:05:12 PM # Q
I hope this is not what Palm had envisioned for 2006...

Where are the 1GHz processors???

RE: For God sakes!!!
Puppy @ 10/1/2005 1:39:20 PM # Q
You guys have some weird comments IMO. 1GHz processors? No handheld has that! And what does it need it for? What does it need 624mhz for? If it can play back full screen video at 30fps, what do you need more power for in today's designs?

And how is the other model a step back? It's a $99 handheld, with a pretty good CPU and amount of RAM. For the price, it's excellent. It's just lacking an SD slot-but it's a huge upgrade from the Zire 21.

And metal? NO pdas have metal cases, and you wouldn't WANT them anymore with wi-fi and bluetooth in them.

Some of these "requirements" are just so arbitrary!

RE: For God sakes!!!
AdamaDBrown @ 10/1/2005 3:17:37 PM # Q
Actually:

Intel's upcoming line of processors is expected to be able to run at 1 GHz, though they're not out yet.

Metal or mostly metal cases are available on the iPaq hx4700, Palm Lifedrive, and other models.

RE: For God sakes!!!
AdamaDBrown @ 10/1/2005 3:17:37 PM # Q
Actually:

Intel's upcoming line of processors is expected to be able to run at 1 GHz, though they're not out yet.

Metal or mostly metal cases are available on the iPaq hx4700, Palm Lifedrive, and other models.

RE: For God sakes!!!
Puppy @ 10/2/2005 12:55:08 AM # Q
Hey, until today I owned a Lifedrive, and it wasn't mostly metal (at least I don't think it was). Just a metal band glued around the screen. And both the Lifedrive and that HP 4700 are TERRIBLE PDAs IMO (the Lifedrive because it's slow and buggy, the 4700 because it's large, expensive, and dosen't have a hardware navigator). Neither is sucessful, so I don't think it's fair to compare a unit that'll be cheaper than either, and probably far outsell both of them.

And yeah-there aren't any CPUs that can realistically be used in a PDA that clock faster than 624MHz-and seriousy-what do you need that much power for, given today's software and Palm OS? PalmOS was fast on a 33MHz Dragonball, and it pretty much blazes on a 312Mhz Arm 9 chip (going by my experience with a Zire 72).

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No more sub-brands?!

gfunkmagic @ 9/23/2005 2:27:08 AM # Q
Okay so they're getting rid of the Zire and Tungsten brands. But they will likely keep the Treo and Mobile Manager brands right...although the latter is not much of a brand anyway...

--------------------
Gaurav
RE: No more sub-brands?!
ackmondual @ 9/23/2005 10:33:44 AM # Q
So pointless. You can recognize a treo from far away w/o looking at the model. Putting it on Zires and Tungstens may help ppl looking on to identify what it is, but the model text is too small for most ppl to make out anyways.
RE: No more sub-brands?!
adamsmark @ 9/23/2005 12:21:13 PM # Q
If Palm's not going to encase the TX in metal (tungsten is a metal), they might as well drop the name.

RE: No more sub-brands?!
ackmondual @ 9/23/2005 4:59:24 PM # Q
To ppl makig the claim that Tungsten is a metal... true. But it's just a name. Technically, shouldn't the PDA itself be made of tungsten then? Else, nothing new here from Palm or elsewhere. The Palm Universal Connector sure as heck wasn't universal when Sony, Handspring, Tapwave, and the other manufacturers had their own UC while Palm had several variations of it. Do the low end Canon Powershots really pack alot of ommph in them? Does the Dell Inspiron really inspire ppl?

adding more to my post above, if you're near sighted, you're not gonna be able to see the letters imprinted on the Palm handheld casing. Else, ppl looking over the lucky Palm user's shoulder may still be hard pressed to make out the words, especially if there's alot of movement from the user. I just noticed that my Tungsten | T3 is no longer that. It just says Tungsten | - because the 3 and the verticle line for the 'T' got rubbed off after all this time.


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How about an LED? A few misc. questions

hkklife @ 9/23/2005 3:42:45 AM # Q
There are a couple of things that haven't been mentioned in any article or seen in any picture. IF these small point are addressed, it could do a fair bit to entice many T5 owners sitting on the fence about upgrading.

#1 Anyone know (or have a pic of the top panel) if the TX will at least have a charging/blinking LED instead of the green paint on the power button like the T5 now has?

#2 Has the headphone jack been relocated? Mobile-Review's diagram says it has but the photos clearly shows the side rail as before.

#3 Also, any idea if the reset button opening has been enlarged to permit the stylus tip to push it?

#4 Software questions: Have Blazer & VersaMal have been updated since the crash-prone version that ship with the LD? What version of DTG is bundled? For the record, I'm glad to see PTunes standard now. It's still underwhelming but anything beats RealPlayer.

Also, why hasn't Palm issued NDAs to the usual media outlets yet? Isn't it getting pretty close to October 12th for all of the major mobile sites to be running front-page stories on these leaked specs/pics?

RE: How about an LED? A few misc. questions
ackmondual @ 9/23/2005 10:28:42 AM # Q
#1
will that even help if so with the power button on top? You wouldn't be able to see it while this thing is charging in a cradle, but perhaps so for charger cables

#2
I always found headphon jack position to be a trivial issue. Didn't take long for me to adjust to my T3's side jack

Otherwise, I'll say not likely on #1 to #3. They already shafted VR and digicam, what's another 2 features? #4 may be possible, as they finally included BT 1.2

"Do you know the difference between an error and a mistake? Anyone can make an error, but that error doesn't become a mistake until you refuse to correct it."
-Grand Admiral Thrawn

the secret to enjoying your job is to have a hobby that's even worse

My PDAs: Visor --> Visor Neo (blue) --> Zire 71 --> Tungsten T3 (with 4 of 6 screws still remaining) ~?~> zodiac 2?

RE: How about an LED? A few misc. questions
hkklife @ 9/23/2005 10:34:31 AM # Q
But, Ack, IS BT 1.2 confirmed? Mobile Review's article didn't make any mention of it. I'd really like to see a leaked PDF manual for this thing!

A charging LED is ALWAYS appreciated, no matter its placement.

Slightly OT:
If I were Palm I'd have considered cutting the RAM on the Z22 down to 16mb or even 8mb and trying to hit an even lower retail price point. If nothing else, the Z22 is going to make the Treo 650 & T|E2 look VERY bad with the same amount of memory but costing much more. Maybe even leave out the AC charger if a decent USB trickle charge rate could be obtained (unlikely). Palm could really stand to clean up in the Royal/Sharp-type organizer market if they could bring a backlit mono unit in at $50-$70 MSRP.

RE: How about an LED? A few misc. questions
ackmondual @ 9/23/2005 11:27:35 AM # Q
uhmm, no. Not confirmed. I guess I just assumed it was there since the article above alr stated that BT and digicam were taken off the table. My guess is BT 1.2 oughtta be there. Palm is slow but they're not THAT slow.... unless we're already up to BT 2.0?

And that's not really OT. z22 and T|X talk is on topic if ya ask me. I'm shocked. I didn't notice that the z22 does have a whooping 32MB of RAM compared to mid-level models and treos.
But the issue is, this isn't like hardrive capacities. They gotta be in powers of 2 increments and with PDAs, we're stuck with 16 (), 32, 64, 128, and 256 flavors due to PDAs limited size. Since they're dealing with the cheaper NVFS RAM instead of the nicer real RAM, cost and power consumption shouldn't be too big of an issue now. Hopefully, this'll mean 3 things:
-all new PDAs will have at least 32MB of RAM
-we can start seeing high end models expanding into 256MB
-the next pOS treo will have 64MB of RAM

As long as the basic colro pOS PDAs have decent battery life, that shold be enough to grab some Sharp folks away from their wussy monochrome digital diaries

RE: How about an LED? A few misc. questions
hkklife @ 9/23/2005 12:08:44 PM # Q
AFAIK, and techie types please feel free to correct me, OS5 is limited to 128mb program memory. Anything more and it'd have to be divided up ala T5 program memory vs. drive mode storage.

I guess Palm finally figures that we're into the final stretch run of FrankenGarnet here and '06 will be the year of 64mb & 128mb on Palm's devices.

RE: How about an LED? A few misc. questions
AdamaDBrown @ 9/23/2005 4:09:35 PM # Q
I think--don't quote me--that the 128 MB limitation had to do with addressable memory, i.e. real RAM, rather than flash storage, but I could be wrong.

RE: How about an LED? A few misc. questions
ackmondual @ 9/23/2005 5:10:13 PM # Q
First of all I was expressing a deep feeling of shuddering after 16MB, in the parenthesis above (i put it in pointy braces which evidentlyl was why it was taken out)

and whoops, my bad. I really did say 256. I heard pOS' real limit was 64MB, until Tapwave found a way to circumvent it to 128MB of contiguous RAM. Based on that, I figured what tapwave did was only the beginning. If there is a technical reason Y os5 can't exceed 128MB, then I stand corrected

RE: How about an LED? A few misc. questions
Zeek @ 10/3/2005 11:40:19 PM # Q
#3 The 'reset hole' accomodates the tip of the black top of the stylus when un-screwed from the shaft.

-Zeek

RE: How about an LED? A few misc. questions
AdamaDBrown @ 10/4/2005 12:26:51 AM # Q
And how would you know that?

RE: How about an LED? A few misc. questions
AdamaDBrown @ 10/4/2005 12:26:51 AM # Q
Whoops, never mind--I had something backward.

Reply to this comment

How Much?

flevy @ 9/23/2005 7:09:44 AM # Q
If I read the Mobile Reveiw article correctly, it discusses a price for the TX of $450 soon to drop to $400. All other descriptions have listed a price of $299.I must be missing something. Can someone give me a hand on this?
Thanks.

RE: How Much?
bsquare @ 9/23/2005 8:46:06 AM # Q

You must be new here... $299 was a pipe dream. This is Palm we are talking about, they LOVE to try to maximize margins on their "high-end" models and suck as much as possible out of the early adopters. Problem is, the early adopters are getting pretty sick of their laziness and these "upgrades" (please make note of finger-quotes)

I'll probalby end up moving to this TX from my T3 eventually, but I'll have to wait out the the price until it drops down to closer to $300. At $299 I would have been waiting at the store on Oct 12th. I was waiting at the door on release day for my PalmIII, PalmV, m505 and TT but they haven't given me reason to do that since.


RE: How Much?
javispedro @ 9/23/2005 10:21:33 AM # Q
It also says LifeDrive ShowTime package is going to drop to $300...

RE: How Much?
ackmondual @ 9/23/2005 10:37:02 AM # Q
It could go both ways. On one hand, this is more features than the T3, more RAM, wifi, upped BT, but minus the 2nd tier features like LED, VR, and vibration. On the other hand, it's simply Palm 's way to charge more for hardware nowadays.

Frankly, I'm gonna assume the T|X will cost $450 until the official MSRP tells me otherwise

RE: How Much?
hkklife @ 9/23/2005 10:42:19 AM # Q
No, the article says the LD "Showtime" bundle is going to be $450. So presumably the standard LD-only retail package will also drop to at least $450 or possibly $400 after the holidays. That probably is a hint as to how poorly the LD has been selling. IF they can somehow patch that monstrosity to make it stable and cut the price down to $400 or less, Palm can probably cut their losses and blaze a path for a much-improved LD2 next spring.

RE: How Much?
neilmitchell @ 9/24/2005 5:00:13 PM # Q
At $299 this will kep Palm going despite the limited form factor appeal. At $400 or $450 this will not fly with the Lifedrive in a similar price range (despite the different target audience). I can accept "less" memory in the TX than the T5 with the lower price but if the $400+ suggests are correct then expect some market share loss.

Atari-Portolio > HP95LX > HP100LX > HP300LX > HP320LX > Nino300 > Nino500 > HP620LX > Jornada680 > PalmV > Vx > m505 > T|T > T615C > T|T3 > T|E2 > T|T3 > LifeDrive

------------------
Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm. - Sir Winston Churchill

Each success only buys an admission ticket to a more difficult problem - Henry Kissinger
------------------

Reply to this comment

12 bit color

jjesusfreak01 @ 9/23/2005 7:10:56 AM # Q
You gotta love the innovation with the Z22. Sure, its color, but 12bit??? What were they smoking. This is a pain for developers unless the handheld can scale down 16bit color, in which case its a little better, but still a bad idea, imho.

RE: 12 bit color
Tamog @ 9/23/2005 8:28:26 AM # Q
Hi,
I beleive that it will be scaling down like the m130 already did!
Best regardas
Tam Hanna

Find out more about the Palm OS in my blog:
http://tamspalm.blogspot.com
RE: 12 bit color
hkklife @ 9/23/2005 8:50:40 AM # Q
Did the Zire 31 scale down too? I think it did-I seem to recall Palm touting "thousands" of colors in their marketing efforts.

If not then the outgoing model is DEFINITELY a better buy than the incoming model--the older Zire 31 already had going for it better looks(blue vs. white), SD slot, and mp3/audio capabilities.


RE: 12 bit color
SeldomVisitor @ 9/23/2005 9:25:14 AM # Q
In 1978 or so I worked as a Research Assistant (Computer Science grad student) writing device drivers and an API set for a 512x512 pixel, 4096 color display system.

Gee...maybe I ==should== apply for a job with PALM as some wags have suggested!

What goes around, comes around.

Giggle.

RE: 12 bit color
chzhd @ 9/23/2005 10:17:09 AM # Q
In 1978 your post may have been funny, today it makes you sound like an idiot.

12 bit color really equals 8 bit color?
ackmondual @ 9/23/2005 10:55:42 AM # Q
4096 colors is certainly better than 256 colors, but like 18bit color, are there any apps that are really written for 12bit colors? I'm guessing some apps like Photos may have 18bit color support, but 12bit seems pointless when most apps have to downsize it to 8bit color.
better selection of entry level Zires
ackmondual @ 9/23/2005 11:12:14 AM # Q
I'm guessing they still sell the z21? That would be nice in where grayscale pOS PDAs are still around (tho also shocking in this day in age), but unfortunately, the os5 upgrade, slightly improved PIMs, and NotePad app isn't worth the lack of 2 PIM buttons, SD slot, and backlighting. I'd rather go back to the Visor line if I had to use a grayscale PDA again. Oh well. Being z21's are as difficult to find as the Visor line, there's always Ebay for your grayscale needs.

I agree, the z31 is the better choice overall. And since it's been out for many many months now, it should be relatively easy to find it for $125 brand new. Maybe even lower if you're good at finding deals. I don't think blue is necessarily better than white (almost has an ipod look to it), but the SD slot and MP3 player are gold.

"Do you know the difference between an error and a mistake? Anyone can make an error, but that error doesn't become a mistake until you refuse to correct it."
-Grand Admiral Thrawn

the secret to enjoying your job is to have a hobby that's even worse

My PDAs: Visor --> Visor Neo (blue) --> Zire 71 --> Tungsten T3 (with 4 of 6 screws still remaining) ~?~> zodiac 2?

RE: 12 bit color
SeldomVisitor @ 9/23/2005 11:55:19 AM # Q
Display color != stored color.

Pallets/lookup tables/colormaps make up the difference.

You can have your 16-bit apps - just castrated a "little".

RE: 12 bit color
hkklife @ 9/23/2005 12:11:03 PM # Q
The Zire classic & Zire 21 were notorious for showing scratches and getting dirty easily in their shiny white casing. That's why I prefer the blue of the 31 (wasn't Palm calling it ZENdigo or ZIREdigo Blue or something wacky there for a while?)

Besides, white iPods are sooooo 2002 ;-) Black if the new iPod trendy color. I actually like the styling of the Z22. It's LD-derived but without the bulk. There WILL be plenty of jokes made about the d-pad circle masquerading as a condom, especially after they get some age on them and starting getting yellowed...

I saw a new Zire 31 last week at Staples for $89 in the box, no rebates (it was on clearance). What a deal!

RE: 12 bit color
sdf @ 9/23/2005 6:14:58 PM # Q
It will probably have 16 bit video storage and look like 16 bits to applications. The least significant bit of each color will just be dropped. It isn't a big deal.

RE: 12 bit color
Timothy Rapson @ 9/23/2005 9:52:49 PM # Q
Almost a year ago, last November 1, I got a Zire 31 AND a free 128 MB flash drive MP3 player, for my wife for $99. On sale at Staples. Her Zire included the SD slot that is lacking on this Z22. I suppose the 32 MB on this one is nice, but it will have only 20 MB of that free. Not much more than the Zire 31.
As far as that goes, my wife has never used the SD slot, so this Z22 would be just as good for her as the 31 and if I got the same sort of discount from list price it would only cost $66. That is real stocking stuffer territory.

RE: 12 bit color
hoodoo @ 9/26/2005 7:59:01 PM # Q
it's a $99 colour PDA, so who cares if it's only 12-bit?

Moreover, I think the non-volatile RAM is a good idea for the beginner PDA user...especially people who would always let the charge run out (e.g. my wife who never keeps her cell phone charged, and her friend who *always* has only about 30 seconds charge left on her Clie!)). No real need for an SD card then. Well, in theory, hopefully the OS will be stable and not prone to hard resets.

RE: 12 bit color
hkklife @ 9/28/2005 10:38:35 AM # Q
The Zire 31 was one of the most stable Palms I've seen in a long time. As long as Palm is releasing units with only one wireless protocol in them and without a harddrive, stability under FrankenGarnet is pretty good. Now, adding NVFS to the Z22 might slow it down considerably and/or make things more crash-prone...



Reply to this comment

TX: $299? Shazaam!

Captain Hair @ 9/23/2005 9:41:35 AM # Q
The Palm TX will run Palm OS Garnet v5.4.9. It will have a 312MHz XScale processor, a 320x480 pixel display, 128MB of non-volitile memory, 802.11b WiFi, Bluetooth 1.2 and an SDIO expansion slot. It will have a $299 USD MSRP.

Palm, hath you awakened and received a dose of business sense? An affordable and desirable PDA? I'm impressed (finally).

"People who think they're smart annoy those of us who are."

Further musings on the TX
hkklife @ 9/23/2005 10:20:35 AM # Q
Agreed. I really don't see what the complaining is all about over the two reduced specs of the T5 (104mhz slower CPU and the los of the 160mb flash drive).

Considering that the T7 has in its favor:

1.Wi-fi
2.Bluetooth 1.2 (unconfirmed)
3.A higher-capacity battery (unconfirmed) & better battery life
4.A newer and (presumably) more stable version of FrankenGarnet 5.Twice the program memory (FINALLY!) and bigger heap
6.The 18-bit "richer colors" screen that we first saw on the E2 (unconfirmed)
7. PocketTunes bundled (at least it beats RealPlayer)
8. A slightly more stylish case & button color (personal preference)

All for a $100 lower launch price (assuming $299 is right) which is the same price that clearance T5 are going for right now! Since 1gb SD cards are ~$50 nowdays and 2gb cards are $~120, the loss of the T5's internal drive is a complete moot point, especially now that the SDIO slot won't have to be used for wi-fi.

Any small improvements to the TX such as a charging LED or a stylus tip-sized reset opening is just icing on the cake. But this thing has GOT to be stable out of the box with the bundled apps! I wonder if we'll see any tweaks to the speed/stability of NVFS in OS 5.4.9?

RE: TX: $299? Shazaam!
adamsmark @ 9/23/2005 11:14:18 AM # Q
Yes, Palm has finally issued a PDA, with great features and a good price. The slower CPU will not be noticed; I know, I went from a T3 to a Treo 650 and I'm more than happy with the processor speed. Though it has less memory, it's still quite healthy for Palm operations--actually, quite awesome, considering 60MB worked well for me on the T3.

Not having a camera is a dissapointment. I probably won't buy one as a result, but it's a good product.

RE: TX: $299? Shazaam!
LiveFaith @ 9/23/2005 11:27:38 AM # Q
$299 too good 2B true. Looking like $400 or more is now rumored. This sounds more like the typical PEAT.

Palm
Early
Adopters
Tax

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: TX: $299? Shazaam!
flevy @ 9/23/2005 3:05:52 PM # Q
Maybe but............maybe not. This could be a strategy where Palm chooses a $299 price point to ramp up sales and makes its profit by keeping costs down - i.e. by making minimal upgrades to the T5.

RE: TX: $299? Shazaam!
Jeffry @ 9/27/2005 8:08:55 PM # Q
Please note that the TX is more of a rebadged T5. The only significant improvement is the built in WiFi... which is NOT impressive considering that this is the year 2005.

RE: TX: $299? Shazaam!
fierywater @ 10/10/2005 2:00:56 PM # Q
For $299, it's a great device at a great price point.

For $399, it's yet another stupid, misguided device release on Palm's part.

Reply to this comment

Too Late!

GearHead @ 9/23/2005 10:22:20 AM # Q
This is a great unit for 2003, not for 2006. The Treo 700 also sucks!
I already moved on and purchased and Axim X30 with everything but a kitchen sink in it!
I am getting ready to move up to "HTC Tornado" which has the following and will be released by the end of October by T-Mobile:
Quad Band GSM, EDGE, Bluetooth 1.2, Wi-Fi, Infrared, and MS Smartphone 5. Also in a great form factor. Light and very samll, with a great QVGA screen.

So bottom line, I'll ask you all: Why should we go back and b uy this one?

Thanx and Good Luck!

Palm III>Palm IIIx>PalmV>PalmVx>Palm m505>Palm M515>Tungsten T
Dell X30 624Mhz w/BT+Wi-Fi
Nokia 6600 w/BT

RE: Too Late!
Timothy Rapson @ 9/23/2005 10:47:00 AM # Q
Well, you can't get any Axim for $99 as you can the Z22
The TX is roughly comparable to the X50 512MZ model with both bluetooth and WiFi as well as (FINALLY) a full screen with collapsable entry area.
The X50 is half the screen resolution of he TX, has comparable memory, and is about the same size.....for $100 more than the TX. Now, both will be offered at lower than list prices. I typically see the mid X50 on sale for $289 or so. I expect to see someone selling TX for $250 or so by Christmas.
I would love the multi-tasking, higher powered software, CF slot, real fonts, and other advantages of the X50. But, since so many of us are still with Palm OS models we have lots of software and experience that would have to be replaced if we went over to the Axim.

As it is, I am still waiting for a camera model. With Dell dropping their low priced models, I expect to hold on to my Zire 72 for a long time or until it breaks. I am disappointed that Palm is not sticking with their camera models. The Zire 71 was a real winner. I am disappointed that Dell didn't drop their prices by $100 per model to reflect cost savings of keeping the same design for so long. I am really disappointed in HP which expects me to pay $500 (list) for a camera model when they don't even have the good sense to put a VGA screen on it.

The TX is a little bit better value than the T5 or most other PDAs, but I am not buying this junk. Prices on phones, desktops, video game systems, and all sorts of other electronics go down as features and power go up. I am not paying more a PDA with the same old same old.

RE: Too Late!
hkklife @ 9/23/2005 10:59:44 AM # Q
Timothy;

You make some valid points. I'd guess that Palm is going to try and consolidate the Zire 31, Zire 72 and maybe even the T|E2 into a single model for next spring. 320*320, Bluetooth, an improved 1.3mp digicam, 64mb NVFS and the Athena connector, likely priced in the $200-$250 neighborhood.

Palm needs a solid lineup of three or four PDAs (two Z's, two T's max) hitting $100, $150-$170, $200-$225, and $300 price points.

RE: Too Late!
ackmondual @ 9/23/2005 11:08:11 AM # Q
If the T|X is really $300, then this 'll really be a nice upgrade to your T|T. If you're happy with PPC, then great. Else, this could be a good way to come back to pOS. Otherwise, more pixels, pOS we all love, among other "niceties"

"Do you know the difference between an error and a mistake? Anyone can make an error, but that error doesn't become a mistake until you refuse to correct it."
-Grand Admiral Thrawn

the secret to enjoying your job is to have a hobby that's even worse

My PDAs: Visor --> Visor Neo (blue) --> Zire 71 --> Tungsten T3 (with 4 of 6 screws still remaining) ~?~> zodiac 2?

RE: Too Late!
twrock @ 9/23/2005 11:12:18 AM # Q
So bottom line, I'll ask you all: Why should we go back and b uy this one?

You probably should not. Instead, continue to enjoy your current PDA. It sounds like you are very happy with it.

On the other hand, some of us find the TX as described to be worth serious consideration, particularly because it has the Palm OS. But if that has no appeal for you, then you probably don't need to waste your time with any of this.

I'm still waiting for the mythical "color HandEra."

RE: Too Late!
Timothy Rapson @ 9/23/2005 10:04:04 PM # Q
"RE: Too Late!
hkklife @ 9/23/2005 10:59:44 AM #

Timothy;

You make some valid points. I'd guess that Palm is going to try and consolidate the Zire 31, Zire 72 and maybe even the T|E2 into a single model for next spring."

I would be one happy camper if Palm put an improved camera in this TX model and offered it for $300 list next Spring when they drop the price of this camera lacking TX to $250. Better have a microphone for video recording though. The Zire 71 I had lacked that microphone, so I know they might try again to do without it. But, if Palm is planning such a camera with microphone model for Spring, why doesn't this TX have the microphone that they already have plans to put in the same case just 6 months from now? No, I fear they are dropping the camera models altogether. Hope I'm wrong.


Reply to this comment

A couple points...

fleehartsell3 @ 9/23/2005 10:34:28 AM # Q
I like the TX. It looks pretty good to me. And I don't think we can really whine about...

1. Plastic casing -- that would have been nice, but maybe the wifi or bluetooth require a plastic casing

2. Reset hole size -- doesn't have to be the size of the stylus tip when the screw off tool inside the stylus is still there like it has been in other Tungsten E form factor devices

3. An indicator light -- why do you really need one. If you need to see if it is charging just turn it on

4. Screen resolution -- I'm no expert, but if the screen resolution was any better, wouldn't the MSRP be much higher?


I am very excited about this device. It's the first Palm PDA with 802.11b with a slim form factor, and it retains some of the minimalism that Palm's initial devices embodied.

RE: A couple points...
hkklife @ 9/23/2005 10:49:33 AM # Q
1. Ideally, a metal front bezel and plastic back panel & shell is the ideal compromise (ala LifeDrive). I can live with the TX's plastic, as long as it is less smudge-prone than the T5.

2. A huge aggravation, coming from the slider T|Ts and the LifeDrive. My T5's stylus tip tends to come loose and wobble after extended periods of writing and it's just a pain to have to unscrew the tip when you have your hands full of something or are trying to look up a number while you are walking/standing.

3. It costs SO little to implement. The Palm V did it in the previous MILLENNIUM. My $10 rechargable flashlight and my $15 cordless phone have charging LEDs. Why can a flagship $300+ Palm PDA not have one?

4. This has not been an issue at all, certainly not with FrankenGarnet and this price point. 320*480 is fine for nearly everyone. Don't expect VGA screens on a Palm device until someone does a non-smartphone running Cobalt or PLinux.

"Some of the minimalism that Palm's initial devices embodied"="still lacking some basic features users are asking for". Most of us long-time users not asking for gigs of storage, voice recognition, GPS, OLED VGA screens etc. Just a slim unit with dual wireless, 320*480, good build quality & OS stability, a voice recorder, vibrating alarm & a charging LED. Palm scatters all of the above features in various models throughout their lineup but we want that stuff in a SINGLE device in the $300-$350 neighborhood.

RE: A couple points...
serpico @ 9/23/2005 11:12:14 AM # Q
A little too late I think for 2006. I switched last year to the iPaq 4150 but still like coming around here to read about what's happening with Palm. Now that Palm is introducing a Windows Mobile Treo, I see the company truly changing from what we are used to. The Lifedrive is probably the most exciting, but the size is too big. I wonder if OS6 will ever come out or what will Palm do now that Access owns Palmsource. They must see some future changes if they have decided to sell Windows Mobile units now.

I guess there are some individuals who will buy or care about the Zire units. But it seems that Palm can upgrade some of those features now in 2005. Low res and color specs are a joke.

RE: A couple points...
mbuhboot @ 9/23/2005 1:38:21 PM # Q
* 4150 is bigger then LifeDrive and heavier - look at the specs..
* Although 4150's VGA screen is an Eye candy - it still less useful then a 4GB storage (buying 2 or 4GB storage will top additional $200 on your $600 machine..)
* 4150 is as slow as the LifeDrive (if not slower) and that is without the HD

I think the LifeDrive is a device you need to get used to concept for a while before rushing in and buying one. I can truely see it as a candidate (together with a IR/BT keyboard) for a laptop replacement.



RE: A couple points...
neuron @ 9/23/2005 2:36:54 PM # Q
Are you talking about HP h4150? If so, you must think H4150 is bigger and heavier than LD just as Moon is bigger and heavier than Earth.

RE: A couple points...
AdamaDBrown @ 9/23/2005 4:12:40 PM # Q
3. An indicator light -- why do you really need one. If you need to see if it is charging just turn it on

Not quite. If the battery has died, then you can't turn it on--then, when you hook it up, you don't know if it's properly charging, because you can't turn it on. Besides which, there are situations where a power supply only provides enough juice to charge the device while it's off, in which case turning it on would stop the charging and burn off power. That's why you need a charging LED. Plus, an LED would let you see at a glance when the battery was full, rather than having to turn it on and check the percentage.

* 4150 is bigger then LifeDrive and heavier - look at the specs..
* Although 4150's VGA screen is an Eye candy - it still less useful then a 4GB storage (buying 2 or 4GB storage will top additional $200 on your $600 machine..)
* 4150 is as slow as the LifeDrive (if not slower) and that is without the HD

You're deeply mistaken about many things. For one thing, the 4150 doesn't have a VGA screen. For another, it was one of the thinnest and lightest models available.

Perhaps you're thinking of the iPaq hx4700--but that would still be incorrect. The 4700 is wider than the LD, but thinner (0.66 vs. 0.8) and lighter (6.6 ounces vs. 6.8). I won't bother with the speed issue.

RE: A couple points...
LiveFaith @ 9/23/2005 4:23:44 PM # Q
mbuhboot,

I can't figure out which 4150 you're talking about. The HP 4150 is nearly as small as my TT3 and only has QVGA rez, which is only 1/2 the pixels of the LifeDrive or TX. The HP 4150 and 19xx were some of the best form factors ever that idiotic HP tossed in favor of the more recent junk they are seeling.

What 4150 are you referring to?

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: A couple points...
serpico @ 9/23/2005 10:23:28 PM # Q
I was referring to the HP 4150/4155 model. It still is one of the sleekest and lightest devices around. The Lifedrive is a brick compared to this. It's been a great transition after years of being a Palm user. I was surprised after reading horror stories about PocketPC's. It just shows you not to believe everything you read.

Reply to this comment

wow history repeating itself

hyperdaz @ 9/23/2005 1:10:08 PM # Q
IBM WORKPAD 8602-20X

about 7 years ago I got this beast...

I bet the plastic quality is better then Palm TX one its matt and almost totally scratch resistant...

it just about works but is not reliable... them where the days...

I have Passed on every plastic pda since...



Reply to this comment

Now the Z33 is Leaked!!!

LiveFaith @ 9/23/2005 1:42:02 PM # Q
RE: Now the Z33 is Leaked!!!
Tuckermaclain @ 9/23/2005 2:26:22 PM # Q
I've been waiting for a good OS5 phone, but this one would be too sweet to pass on. Looks like a big dose of the original "Zen" was plopped into this model. Very cool to use such a small PDA. Couple it to a Motorola Razor and I would be a very happy camper for a few years. I swore off being part of Palm's beta-testing corps, (biggest disappointments? m505 preshipping fiasco and Treo 650 data mangler patch) but I'd be first in line for this little gem!

RE: Now the Z33 is Leaked!!!
AdamaDBrown @ 9/23/2005 4:24:34 PM # Q
And Pat bags another one...

RE: Now the Z33 is Leaked!!!
Tuckermaclain @ 9/26/2005 10:08:00 AM # Q
#%&#@**!!

RE: Now the Z33 is Leaked!!!
cypher76 @ 9/28/2005 5:22:51 PM # Q
I'd be interested in the Z22 if it had a decent screen resolution...even my $99.99 LG VX8100 phone has a better screen @ 176x220. I doubt this Z33 is a real model, but if it is, it'd be great at the $199.99 price point, especially if it had bluetooth. I always thought that something like a T|T3 in a fixed 320x320 mode with a status bar would allow for an incredibly compact and usable design. I don't really need the mp3 playback or camera, as my phone is good at both, but I think $199.99 for a T|T-sized and Z72-featured device would sell pretty well.
Reply to this comment

Right specs, wrong form factor

neilmitchell @ 9/23/2005 4:09:06 PM # Q
Well the TX looks about the right specs (well discussed elsewhere in this thread). However, the form factor as mentioned by some is a bit stale. The TX may be leveraging from the T5 form factor to save redesign costs of the chassis and form factor of the internal boards, display and other key components. This probably all contributes to the low (assumed) price.

However, as I have said before, what is needed is Palm Vx replacement, something that provides this level of functionality in a world beating form factor much like Motorola has done with the RAZR and Apple has done with the iPOD Nano. In this respect I think this is an opportunity lost.

Having had to buy a Lifedrive as my T3 digitizer drift and battery life was killing my practical usage of this as the T5 looked too cheaply made, I am faced with living with the larger Lifedrive whose form factor does not support my usage type or spending another $300 on a TX to get the better form factor (I dont need the hard drive). My company is suggesting we migrate to Blackberrys where the machine is automatically synched to the Outlook server (no need to Hotsync), I may just give up on Palm now and go the Blackberry route. The Treo is not supported by our admins.

They should have given us the RAZR/Vx/iPOD nano form factor with this device. I would have bought this out of my own pocket.


Atari-Portolio > HP95LX > HP100LX > HP300LX > HP320LX > Nino300 > Nino500 > HP620LX > Jornada680 > PalmV > Vx > m505 > T|T > T615C > T|T3 > T|E2 > T|T3 > LifeDrive

------------------
Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm. - Sir Winston Churchill

Each success only buys an admission ticket to a more difficult problem - Henry Kissinger
------------------

RE: Right specs, wrong form factor
LiveFaith @ 9/23/2005 4:28:04 PM # Q
Neil,

The iPalm sounds like a perfect fir for you. Haven't seen one in stores but anxiously waiting:

http://www.churchoflivingfaith.com/images/ipalm.jpg

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Right specs, wrong form factor
neilmitchell @ 9/24/2005 3:00:43 AM # Q
Nice Paintshop job. If only getting the product was that quick :-) I actually drew something very similar in my notebook on my last flight back from Asia. I assumed (like at iPOD nano and like a Palm Vx) this is ~0.25" thick. Oh well...nice dream...I agree that it is a shame Apple have not bought Palm...we would get some innovation on the marketing side.

Atari-Portolio > HP95LX > HP100LX > HP300LX > HP320LX > Nino300 > Nino500 > HP620LX > Jornada680 > PalmV > Vx > m505 > T|T > T615C > T|T3 > T|E2 > T|T3 > LifeDrive

------------------
Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm. - Sir Winston Churchill

Each success only buys an admission ticket to a more difficult problem - Henry Kissinger
------------------

RE: Right specs, wrong form factor
bdholmes @ 9/30/2005 6:19:44 AM # Q
How long have we been crying out for a Vx form-factor on these boards? Probably ever since the M505 Palm-bloat began. Vx was the ideal form factor for a PDA. Everyone who carries a PDA will also carry a phone, and the Vx was the form factor that could comfortably fit into a jeans pocket alongside a phone. Palm should sacrifice anything (apart from battery life) that will allow them to revert to the Vx form factor. That way they will return to the products that so succesfully differentiated them from bloated PocketPCs. Palm used to be synonymous with simplicity and elegance, IMO, ever since they abandoned this ethos (along with the Vx form factor), they have gone downhill. You have listended to a**holes on these boards who call for Ghz processors and VGA screens for too long, please get back to what made you succesful all those years ago.

Reply to this comment

Iv'e simply had enough.

VampireLestat @ 9/23/2005 6:50:07 PM # Q
The TX is a disgusting downgrade from the T5.

Since Palm Inc. is going to WM and has backstabbed the Palm community, they can kiss my "you know what".

Palm Incorporated is now officially on my lifetime blacklist.

From now on, I will be supporting PPC makers like HP or Dell, or possibly some future Access Inc. Palm OS licensee.

F you Colligan!

RE: Iv'e simply had enough.
Gekko @ 9/23/2005 6:52:37 PM # Q

vampire - maybe you can picket/protest outside. maybe you could get arrested as an act of defiance like my favorite lefty hollywood liberal, martin sheen.

"NO JUSTICE, NO PEACE!"

RE: Iv'e simply had enough.
T_W @ 9/23/2005 6:53:08 PM # Q
Buy a linux device or a Blackberry.

There's no reason to feeed the beast by buying HPaq or an Axim.

RE: Iv'e simply had enough.
AdamaDBrown @ 9/24/2005 2:39:27 AM # Q
Well, for one, Blackberries are kind of useless if you're looking for more than mobile email...

There are a few cool Linux devices, specifically the Zaurus series from Sharp (Had flash memory, VGA, and sliding keyboards before either Palm or PPC), but Linux on a mobile device is a difficult sell. The fact that every manufacturer feels the need to go with a different UI makes compatibility and software base a pain. I'd still love to play with one, but most people will probably find them way too limiting.

Reply to this comment

Flash ram and real RAM

Billav @ 9/23/2005 8:27:18 PM # Q
What's the difference on a Palm? What effect will it have on speed (launching apps, etc)?

RE: Flash ram and real RAM
lfmorrison @ 9/29/2005 2:31:55 PM # Q
"Flash RAM" is a misnomer. It is physically impossible to treat a byte of Flash memory in the same way that you treat a byte of RAM memory.

Real RAM is a "scratch" medium which your Palm's CPU (or every other computer system that has been built since the 1970's) can work with very rapidly. It is possible to directly read and write each single byte of RAM directly and virtually instantly (ie. within a limited number of CPU clock cycles).

Real RAM has traditionally been a "volatile" medium, meaning that the data that is stored in RAM can only be maintained as long as a live electrical source is attached to it.

Newer technologies, such as Ferromagnetic RAM (FRAM), are capable of maintaining their information for a relatively long period of time without being hooked up to a power source. In theory, FRAM is just as quick and easy to READ as traditional RAM. However, it may take somewhat longer to WRITE to FRAM.

Flash ROM is a purely non-volatile medium of storage. Barring exposure to traumatic conditions, such as a static discharge, Flash ROM can maintain its data for up to 20 years or more without any electrical supply. Flash ROM has a limited number of lifecycles: you can only re-write a single cell (byte) of Flash ROM a limited number of times before it wears out. A worn-out Flash ROM cell will take longer to write to, it will have a shorter data retention time (ie. less than 20 years) and as it wears out after even more use, it will start to fail to store any data correctly at all.

Flash ROM cannot be written to in the same way as RAM -- the computer has to go through a special procedure, and it takes a significant length of time to write the data.

Depending on the implementation, it may be possible to read data out of Flash ROM just as quickly as it is possible to read data out of RAM, in which case it is possible to execute program code directly off of a Flash ROM chip, or else it may be quite a bit slower, in which case it would be necessary to copy the program code out of Flash ROM and into Real RAM before it could be executed.

The ARM class of microporcessors, which is used in every modern PDA (both Windows Mobile and Palm-powered) requires a certain supply of Real RAM. It is simply impossible for it to operate exclusively from Flash memory. (Techno-speak: the stack, the allocation heap, etc. cannot be implemented using Flash memory. It is impossible. Period.) All of Palm inc's current products apparently include exactly 32 MB of Real RAM.

In order to do anything useful, a device such as a PDA has to have an operating system. Without an operating system, the PDA couldn't do anything at all -- it wouldn't even turn on. If the operating system were not kept in nonvolatile memory, then accidentally forgetting to re-charge your PDA would result in rendering the PDA totally, permanently useless. The operating system is typically stored in some sort of ROM memory. In order to boost execution speed, the current line of Palm, inc products takes a copy of the operating system out of ROM, and saves it in Ream RAM. Every time you reset your PDA, it takes a fresh copy of the OS. The OS requires approximately 16 MB of the Real RAM. That leaves 16 MB of Real RAM left.

The form of memory that you are probably most familiar with is the storage space where you can install programs, store documents, etc. Traditionally, this memory space had been kept in Real RAM, and the data was kept valid by leaving it connected to tbe battery all the time. If the battery ever died, then your programs, documents, etc. would all be lost.

In newer devices, the programs, documents, etc. are all stored in a non-volatile medium such as Flash or a micro hard drive; when the time comes to run a program or load a document, the data is copied out of the non-volatile storage and into Real RAM. Then, when you leave the program or close the document, the copy in Real RAM is checked for changes, before being written back to the non-volatile storage.

Obviously, with the newer devices having only 16 MB of Real RAM available after the OS is loaded, there is not enough space to copy everything out of non-volatile memory all the time -- sometimes, the storage memory space can be 64 MB or more. (Note that the expansion memory, like an SD card, or the archive section of the T5, is something else entirely. You;re better off thinking of that storage like a hard drive.)

So, when you try to load something and the Palm sees that Real RAM is already full, it is forced to look for something in Real RAM to close and archive back in the nonvolatile area. That's why, with the never Palm devices, you may see a noticable delay between the time you tap an icon, and the time that the program actually starts to run.

Reply to this comment

Damn it's getting cold in here...

bigredgpk @ 9/23/2005 9:00:11 PM # Q
Sox winning the world series for the first time in 86 years, pats win the super bown for the third time in four year, and a Palm is now runing WM 5.0


The devil must be having a snow ball fight right now with Hitler...

Timmay

Reply to this comment

Looks like the expected price is more like 400-450?

fleehartsell3 @ 9/24/2005 10:22:44 AM # Q
So I went to the site where this story's pictures came from (mobile-review.com) and it looked like they are reporting the expected price around $400-450. Here's what the article said...

So which is it? Just under 300 or over 400? I wouldn't be surprised if it's over 400 given Palm's history of over-pricing their higher-end new releases.

RE: Looks like the expected price is more like 400-450?
neilmitchell @ 9/24/2005 5:05:20 PM # Q
Can we get a definitive statement on the price? Is it $299 or $400+?

Atari-Portolio > HP95LX > HP100LX > HP300LX > HP320LX > Nino300 > Nino500 > HP620LX > Jornada680 > PalmV > Vx > m505 > T|T > T615C > T|T3 > T|E2 > T|T3 > LifeDrive

------------------
Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm. - Sir Winston Churchill

Each success only buys an admission ticket to a more difficult problem - Henry Kissinger
------------------

RE: Looks like the expected price is more like 400-450?
phoneboy @ 9/25/2005 2:31:11 PM # Q
It it ends up being $400+ after the $299 rumor that has been spread, it will be very unfortunate for Palm. I'm gearing up to pay $299 for one. If I have to pay more, I'll skip this one. How many others will do this same?

Sharp 16KB Organizer, US Robotics Palm Pilot 1000, Palm III, Palm IIIx, Palm V, Palm Vx, Palm M505, Sony Clie NR-70, Palm Tungsten 3, Compaq iPaq 3955 (for kicks), Sony Clie UX-50
RE: Looks like the expected price is more like 400-450?
Gekko @ 9/25/2005 2:42:50 PM # Q

my guess is $399. mark it down.



RE: Looks like the expected price is more like 400-450?
palmato @ 9/25/2005 3:07:02 PM # Q
299 Euros >> 299 Usd



--------------------------
Waiting for a TT successor

RE: Looks like the expected price is more like 400-450?
XmonkeyX @ 9/25/2005 9:49:29 PM # Q
Actually 299 Euros is more like $360... just about. My T|C just died (litarally) so I can't give you an exact number with WorldMate.

RE: Looks like the expected price is more like 400-450?
adamsmark @ 9/26/2005 1:11:47 AM # Q
Unless they throw in a camera, the TX isn't worth more than $300.

RE: Looks like the expected price is more like 400-450?
palmato @ 9/26/2005 9:27:50 AM # Q
> Actually 299 Euros is more like $360... just about.

Palm applies a 1:1 exchange rate for the official retail price.
Example: Te2 249 us$ -> 249 euros

The euro price compensates the much higher sales tax (VAT) that is used in Europe.


--------------------------
Waiting for a TT successor

RE: Looks like the expected price is more like 400-450?
Timothy Rapson @ 9/27/2005 8:52:15 AM # Q
I am betting with the $400 and $130 prices.

Reply to this comment

Palm Tungsten Units

lp12 @ 9/26/2005 6:54:23 PM # Q
Give us the F'ING Voice Recorder back!

Reply to this comment

The specs and $299 price point are ideal....

Jeffry @ 9/27/2005 8:15:07 PM # Q
.... for a Zire 73, with the built-in 2 megapixel camera.

Reply to this comment

Cautiously Optimistic

epp_b @ 9/28/2005 10:14:58 AM # Q
".... for a Zire 73, with the built-in 2 megapixel camera."
Not to mention, a flash would be nice.

The Z22 looks pretty stylish - I like it. It would be perfect if it had a larger, higher-res, higher color screen and MP3 playback. But, of course, that would have pushsed it over the $100 mark and this isn't the market it's geared for anyway. Looks like a good mix between the Zire 21 and the Zire 31 for those in the entry-level market who don't need an MP3 player.

The TX looks to be nice, but for $300? I dunno...

I'm just hoping for two things: Graffiti 1 and no screen whine!

if (!$broke) {
DontFixIt()
}

RE: Cautiously Optimistic
Zeek @ 10/3/2005 11:54:44 PM # Q
I don't think you should hold your breathe awaiting the return of G1...Palm lost the lawsuit Xerox v. Palm for rights of Graffiti...I to despise G2...

http://www.out-law.com/page-3239

-Zeek

RE: Cautiously Optimistic
AdamaDBrown @ 10/4/2005 12:28:33 AM # Q
Actually, as I recall, Palm won the suit and got Xerox's patent thrown out, but they stuck with G2 because it was what they had, and to prevent an appeal by Xerox.

RE: Cautiously Optimistic
Zeek @ 10/7/2005 6:48:46 AM # Q
You are correct!! -Freak'n INTERNET!! None the less, I still despise G2...thanks for keeping me honest...

-Zeek

RE: Cautiously Optimistic
Zeek @ 10/7/2005 6:50:38 AM # Q
RE: Cautiously Optimistic
Strider_mt2k @ 10/7/2005 9:27:16 AM # Q
The DIA should be opened up to accept any input method that folks choose to run with.

G1, G2, Fitally, whatever. Why LIMIT things like this?
We've seen hacks for stuff like this for years and years.


Reply to this comment

Are those real?

asiayeah @ 9/28/2005 12:12:31 PM # Q
Given Palm has announced the Windows Mobile Treo, will those devices really come out?

--
With great power comes great responsiblity.
Reply to this comment

HELP with Palm TX

dwighthomer @ 11/24/2005 11:25:54 PM # Q
A couple days ago I bought a new Palm TX at Circuit City. I have not been able to get Sync between my PC (Gateway Laptop) and the Palm. Sales people there have spent 4 hours workng on it too. No Sync accomplished.
Ideas on what could be the issue would be greatly appreciated. Without sync, PC connectivity, I cannot use PDA with my Yahoo Calendar. That is why I bought it in the first place.
Does anyone on this site have any experience in that area.

I have been told that I may need to uninstall my Microsoft Outlook 2003 to enable the newly installed Microsoft 2002 to work.........??
Thanks in advance for you help.

RE: HELP with Palm TX
rcartwright @ 11/25/2005 12:11:58 PM # Q
Could you give a little more information on your setup and contact me direct. I have had no problem with syncing and in fact use wi-fi for anything other than a major hotsync like an install. By the way, the forums are the better place to get information in general. You might want to post this in the TX section and take your request there. Threre are those here that would flame you to a crisp for posting a help question in the comments area

"Many men stumble across the truth, but most manage to pick themselves up
and continue as if nothing had happened."
- Winston Churchill
RE: HELP with Palm TX
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 11/25/2005 2:52:05 PM # Q
A couple days ago I bought a new Palm TX at Circuit City. I have not been able to get Sync between my PC (Gateway Laptop) and the Palm. Sales people there have spent 4 hours workng on it too. No Sync accomplished.
Ideas on what could be the issue would be greatly appreciated. Without sync, PC connectivity, I cannot use PDA with my Yahoo Calendar. That is why I bought it in the first place.
Does anyone on this site have any experience in that area.

I have been told that I may need to uninstall my Microsoft Outlook 2003 to enable the newly installed Microsoft 2002 to work.........??
Thanks in advance for you help.

First of all, was the Circus Sh!tty employee "helping" you named Jeff Kirvin? That might actually be your main problem... Palm software problems are usually either VERY simple to solve (if you know what you're doing) or IMPOSSIBLE to solve without high level (developer/Level 2 tech) knowledge. If it can't be solved in 10 minutes by an experienced Palm user, you're probabluy fcuked.

Right click on the HotSync icon in the taskbar. What checkmarks are there? You should have one by Local USB and none by Local Serial. Fix that and try HotSyncing. If that doesn't work, post SPECIFICS on what you've done so far (I assume you named your Palm in the initial setup) + have tried uninstalling + reinstalling the Palm Desktop + HotSync software.

Also, right click on the HotSync icon in the taskbar and choose (left click) on custom. Do you see your Palm's name?

Finally, right click on the HotSync icon in the taskbar and choose (left click) on View Log. What does it say?

One more thing: feel free to post anything you want to Palminfocenter as long as it's related in some way to the topics being discussed. Chances are someone here can help you and chances are you're not the only one reading that has the same questions you have.


TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: HELP with Palm TX
hkklife @ 11/25/2005 4:06:15 PM # Q
"One more thing: feel free to post anything you want to Palminfocenter as long as it's related in some way to the topics being discussed. Chances are someone here can help you and chances are you're not the only one reading that has the same questions you have"


Unless, of course, you want to know HOW to get a completely stable and accurate set of hacked Graffiti 1 libraries onto modern POS devices, get the TX or LD's BT working reliabily on a CDMA phone or want to get a multi-account VersaMail setup up and running with no crashes. Or you might want answers straight from the horse's mouth to the HARD-HITTING questions concerning the future plans of Access or the years of abuse/negligence of our favorite mobile platform. If you want help on any of the above matters, friend, then you're completely out of luck.

Otherwise, bring your questions to the PIC forums and we'll do our best to help each other out!


Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5

RE: HELP with Palm TX
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 11/25/2005 4:37:08 PM # Q
B>Unless, of course, you want to know HOW to get a completely stable and accurate set of hacked Graffiti 1 libraries onto modern POS devices,

Most recent Palms have had reasonably stable G1 libraries hacked. To expect ongoing support of a 10 year old text entry system that Palm LEGALLY can't support might be asking too much. Donating to a hacker with the request for new device support might help, but I feel there are so many kludges currently in PalmOS 5 it will be difficult to maintain legacy support. We need to get PalmOS 5 reverse engineered, cleaned up and repackaged as a ROM upgrade. In other words, we need someone to finally FIX PalmOS. Ain't gonna happen. Stick with a stable PalmOS 5.2 device and avoid the headaches, hkklike.

get the TX or LD's BT working reliabily on a CDMA phone

Despite the grand intentions of the protocol, Bluetooth implementation in REALITY is usually PURE SH!T. Trust me - I've been struggling with various Bluetooth devices from the beginning and long ago realized what a pathetic scam Bluetooth is. Bluetooth is everthing Wi-Fi is not. Every question about incompatibility sees the manufacturers pointing the finger of blame at "the other guy". No one takes responsibility for the failure of devices to work together just as long as even a SINGLE device can be piared to the hardware in question. ("See? It does work! Goodbye!." CLICK...) To be honest, Palm's Bluetooth setup is one of the most straightforward I've seen. (As well it should be, since Palm wasted so much of their time and resources on it under Yankowski's Reign of Error. Palm really thought Bluetooth - rather than Wi-Fi - was The Future.) The walkthrough screens on Palm's initial Bluetooth setup make Sony etc. look like a joke. Yes they could be better about exposing init strings etc. for power users, but remember: carriers don't want customers using their cellphones as modems. Palm needs to be careful not to pi$$ off the carriers, since carriers (not end users) are now its bread and butter.

or want to get a multi-account VersaMail setup up and running with no crashes.

The short answer is that VersaMail is beyond repair and you should just shell out for a better email client like SnapperMail and end your misery ASAP. Isn't your time (and sanity) worth more than the $25 - $60 SnapperMail will cost you? Stop fighting it just on the principle that Palm should have provided you with a stable email program for free. But if you want to know the uber-secret way to fix VersaMail, here it is:

₵͂Ȃ̃ogbNƐ邱Ƃ񂠂]ċȂA}y݂Ȃ

[I am NOT responsible for any adverse outcomes related to doing this.]

Or you might want answers straight from the horse's mouth to the HARD-HITTING questions concerning the future plans of Access or the years of abuse/negligence of our favorite mobile platform.

You expect PalmSource to publicly admit Cobalt was a pile of buggy, slow, unstable crap and that PalmLinux won't be ready until 2008? Why would they do that to themselves? Developers and end users are already skittish - making that kind of statement would trigger a stampede, with EVERYONE running wildly away from PalmOS, screaming and sobbing hysterically.

If you want help on any of the above matters, friend, then you're completely out of luck.

That's why I provide the service I do. ;-O


TVoR



------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: HELP with Palm TX
rcartwright @ 11/25/2005 7:16:00 PM # Q
VoR,

I am interested in your take on BT. I have never had any real problem with BT except trying to get a Nokia 6230 to work with my T3 for dialing from my address book. Otherwise it worked fine and have had no problems with the TX. While haveing a PAN would be nice, you have to consider the power requirements of running a keyboard, a wireless headset and a phone to 'Net connection all at the same time. You have to have a balance. All that said, Palm could do a lot better supporting Bluetooth if they are goint to include it. However, till (and if) wifi is widespread you have to have a way to hook up the phone to the internet, And cables are so 20th century

"Many men stumble across the truth, but most manage to pick themselves up
and continue as if nothing had happened."
- Winston Churchill

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