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Comments on: Palm Says 3 New Treo Smartphones in 2006

Palm CEO Ed Colligan stated in todays Palm's earnings conference call that Palm will announce three new smartphones next year, in addition to the Treo 700w. Read on for more details.
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Next Year

chinchorrero @ 12/20/2005 5:21:17 PM # Q
three new smartphones.
I can wait.
cheers

"Life is Too Short"
4 new phones, 2 WM
Surur @ 12/20/2005 5:40:15 PM # Q
POS
Treo 700p
Lowrider

WM
Treo 700w
Hollywood

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...

RE: Next Year
hkklife @ 12/20/2005 5:41:13 PM # Q
Don't be surprised if that's nearly ALL of the new releases they have in '06 (other than a few final FrankenGarnet rehases/repackagings).

Anyone care to speculate what is going to be released?

My guess:

1. 700p. Basically the 700w with Garnet & 320*320. No other major updates other than EVDO and the improved camera. It'll debut on Sprint, never be on Verizon and take a while to trickle out to the GSM markets.

2. Low-end ~$200 Treo. Think Treo 600 (160*160) but with NVFS and a small/nifty/hip formfactor and colors. This one might omit the keyboard entirely.

3. "Hollywood" Treo. Essentially the 700p in a slimmer formfactor. Think of it as what the Palm Vx hardware was to the IIIxe -slimmer & stylish but no more oomph under the hood. Perhaps a return of the metal-clad Palm?

4. Treo 750w (minor updates for non-Verizon carriers) OR a home-brewed Linux solution. I'll let the true prognosticators here take a crack at what the 4th release might be.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

RE: Next Year
JarJar @ 12/20/2005 6:39:05 PM # Q
Good guesses, I agree except not "nifty/hip". My guess: the Low end model will be about m130 quality with a phone glued on.
RE: Next Year
LiveFaith @ 12/20/2005 7:49:55 PM # Q
700w = yawn.

700p = 700w except Garnet. Sadly the massive antenna will probably still be there. I wish it were not the uglier 700w form, but I assume it will be due to dev costs.

Hollywood = Hipper trim and no antenna, hi-rez screen etc. TE2 specs, Palm OS

Lowrider = Z22 specs converged with keyboard and radio. Palm OS & no cam. Free or close to it from US subsidizers.


Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Next Year
Surur @ 12/20/2005 7:58:41 PM # Q
Hollywood = WM5, aimed at Europe.



  • International markets hold the greatest growth potential
    One of the new Treo models will be designed for the International market and may not see a US release
  • The Treo 650 continues to sell well and will remain in the market for the foreseeable future

http://www.bargainpda.com/default.asp?newsID=2754

So.. In USA you will have Treo 650 (POS), Treo 700w and Treo 700p (all looking identical more or less) and the Lowrider (160x160?) while I will have a crack at the slim, stylish 3G VGA WM5 Treo in Europe ;)

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...

RE: Next Year and Palm on a Roll!?
ChiA @ 12/20/2005 8:09:53 PM # Q
Wow! Palm hopes to introduce more smartphones in one year than it has in the past two years?!

Seeing the relationship between the Tungsten E, T5 and Tx, I've a cynical feeling that one of these "new" smartphones will look suspiciously like a Treo600 but come with NVFS memory.

By the way, what happened to all those Cobalt smartphones and devices Palmsource/David Nagel said we were going to see in 2005?
I wonder, have they disappeared with Jeff Kirvin, Dr Opinion, Lord Lucan, Glen Miller and Bigfoot?

"What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog" - Dwight D. Eisenhower

Better Luck Next Year
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 12/20/2005 8:50:01 PM # Q
By the way, what happened to all those Cobalt smartphones and devices Palmsource/David Nagel said we were going to see in 2005?
I wonder, have they disappeared with Jeff Kirvin, Dr Opinion, Lord Lucan, Glen Miller and Bigfoot?

Ask the Loch Ness Monster or Waldo (Have You Seen Waldo?)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Next Year
PenguinPowered @ 12/20/2005 10:14:38 PM # Q
Did Nagel actually claim Cobalt would ship in '05? I know
GSPDA claimed they'd ship a Cobalt phone in '05, but I don't think PalmSource ever made a claim for '05 shipping.


Marty Fouts

I survived PalmSource '05

RE: Next Year
HiWire @ 12/20/2005 10:33:20 PM # Q
So is Cobalt dead? I'm curious about the "Hollywood" and 700p products. A guy on the streetcar told me his TX gets about 5 hours of life, tops. I wasn't exactly moved to upgrade from my 5-year old Palm.

Palm m505 User
Devices running Cobalt are "coming, compelling, and many."
Gekko @ 12/20/2005 10:38:11 PM # Q

The primary focus of this week's PalmSource Developer Conference is to unveil Palm OS Cobalt to the world. Mr. Nagel called it "the most important piece of technology that we've ever created."

PalmSource re-wrote 80% of the Palm OS to create Cobalt. It brings to the operating system features it needs to remain competitive, including full multitasking ability, native ARM applications, and other high-end features.

An overview of the features of Palm OS Cobalt is available in this article, and one showing PalmSource's future plans for it is in this one.

The question on everyone's lips at the PalmSource Conference is when the first devices running Cobalt will be available. Mr. Nagel and the rest of the PalmSource executives who have spoken have declined to say anything about this, pointing out that this is really up to the licensees. Larry Slotnick, the company's Chief Product Officer, would only say that devices running Palm OS Cobalt are "coming, compelling, and many."

Mr. Nagel said he expects to see Cobalt running on a wide variety of devices, including ones with large, high-resolution screens like tablets and e-readers. He also mentioned the possibility of Cobalt-powered digital video players.

http://www.brighthand.com/article/PS04_Nagel_Keynote



RE: Next Year
Gekko @ 12/20/2005 10:40:32 PM # Q

p.s. those statements by Nagel/Slotnick are from Feb 11, 2004 - almost 2 years ago.



RE: Next Year
AdamaDBrown @ 12/20/2005 10:58:47 PM # Q
Yes, Nagel/PalmSource did claim that Cobalt devices were going to ship in 2004/2005. In fact, PalmSource people specifically said to the press that they had 11 (I'm pretty sure it was 11) Cobalt devices that they were expecting to launch in the first quarter of 2005. Didn't really happen, did it?

The TX gets more like 7 hours of battery life as a maximum, depending on how you adjust the backlight.

Or should you blame Michael Mace? Or just wishful thinking?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 12/20/2005 11:29:40 PM # Q
Those phones were NOT all supposed to be Cobalt

http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7166#97636

(despite what people hoped:

http://news.com.com/PalmSource+to+unveil+smart-phone+software/2100-1041_3-5384294.html

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1651873,00.asp

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1040_22-5719142.html)

This thread is a surreal read:

http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=7166


------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Next Year
PenguinPowered @ 12/21/2005 12:01:04 AM # Q
Nagel said a bunch of dumb stuff at '04 devcon, but I don't see any promises of an '05 delivery to end customers of Cobalt devices.

Like I said, to date, only GSPDA has ever claimed that a Cobalt device would ship in '05. And they've still got a few days...


Marty Fouts

I survived PalmSource '05

RE: Next Year
ChiA @ 12/21/2005 8:58:13 AM # Q
Marty said only GSPDA has ever claimed that a Cobalt device would ship in '05. And they've still got a few days...

Yea, Santa's got them all wrapped up in his sleigh alongside the treasure of El Dorado and the Holy Grail.

"What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog" - Dwight D. Eisenhower

RE: Next Year
LiveFaith @ 12/21/2005 9:09:06 AM # Q
Dec. 21, 2005 ... It aint over until the FAT32 sings!

BTW, Nagel's been fired ... with $3M severence no doubt. NEXT.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

3 reasons why PalmLinux will fail:
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 12/22/2005 12:30:00 AM # Q
1) Remember all those problems Cobalt had? (Speed, stability, etc.) Well, changing the kernel doesn't magically make them disappear.

2) Remember how easy Dianne Hackborn said it would be to swap out the Nasty Proprietary PalmSource kernel and slip in the Lovely Linux Messiah kernel, saving all those perfect pieces of Creamy Cobalt Goodness? Well it was all B.S.

3) Remember how PalmSource said Cobalt (6.0) was ready in December, 2003? It wasn't. Remember how PalmSource said Cobalt (6.1) was ready in August, 2004? It wasn't. Remember how PalmSource said Cobalt (6.x) would be ready in Summer, 2006? It won't be.




You have been deceived. Sorry.


Carl "Bluetooth" Y.

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Next Year
PenguinPowered @ 12/22/2005 1:54:12 AM # Q
Now "Carl", be fair. That was OldPalmSource. This is NewAccess. Mike Kelley is telling the trade press that PalmLinux will be in the hands of NewAccess customers in '06, and I believe him.

You're wrong about number 1, by the way. Switching from one kernel to another does change stability and performance problems. (Ask anyone who tried to use BSD on top of Mach.)

I can't say anything about 2, because that would violate an NDA.

I can't say anything about 3, because I wasn't around then, so I don't know.

I will say that 6.1 was running on real hardware in December '04. (I guess it is OK to say that, since it was already said that it was ready in August '04.)

But when it comes to embedded Linux, late is better, because it gives the hardware more time to catch up.

Marty Fouts

I survived PalmSource '05

RE: Next Year
AdamaDBrown @ 12/22/2005 3:43:20 AM # Q
But when it comes to embedded Linux, late is better, because it gives the hardware more time to catch up.

And downtime gives the servers a chance to rest, right?

RE: Next Year
PenguinPowered @ 12/22/2005 4:37:06 AM # Q
Why yes it does. That's why CPUs turn off during the idle loop ;)

But seriously, Moore's law applies to hardware, but software gets slower as it gets older, not faster. Fortunately for us users, it gets slower at a much slower rate than hardware gets faster.

More than a few times in my career I've seen people struggle for years with a performance problem in software merely to have it solved by the hardware outgrowing the issue.


Marty Fouts

I survived PalmSource '05

Reply to this comment

Ha ha ha! I guess that's why wince division was folded? :)

Dr Opinion @ 12/20/2005 11:06:08 PM # Q
> "...Palm now has 78% of the US handheld marketshare..."
> "...8 of the 10 best selling handhelds in the US are made by Palm..."

So I guess that's why wince division was folded into the "entertainment" group? :)

I *love* being right. :D

------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

;-O
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 12/20/2005 11:24:50 PM # Q
Welcome back, Doc Op. I see your new medications have had no effect. How sad.

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Ha ha ha! I guess that's why wince division was folded?
fierywater @ 12/20/2005 11:36:53 PM # Q
78% of the handheld market, excluding anything made by HTC or Dell. Maybe.

RE: Ha ha ha! I guess that's why wince division was folded? :)
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 12/20/2005 11:41:44 PM # Q
Handheld market as defined as portable PDA devices sporting an orange logo?

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Ha ha ha! I guess that's why wince division was folded? :)
ginsberg @ 12/21/2005 12:12:09 AM # Q
Palm is using IDC's terminology and NPD's data. In this case handhelds = PDAs. Converged devices = smartphones.

The data from NPD are primarily retail sales. So you are correct that RIM BlackBerries, Dell Axims and about half of HP iPAQ sales (sold direct to large accounts) are excluded, greatly inflating Palm's US PDA market share.

Gartner data show Palm with only 21% of the US PDA market in 3Q05, but they also show the Palm Treo with a majority of the US smartphone market.

RE:
AdamaDBrown @ 12/21/2005 12:38:09 AM # Q
Gartner data seperates data oriented handhelds and anything designed like a phone. To get a better picture, you need to add together the phone and handheld sales, both retail and online. That will probably add up to something like 60% Palm, 15-20% HP, and ~10% Dell, with the remaining 10-20% being various PPC phones and misc manufacturers. This is obviously not figuring in the Blackberries, or whatever else.

Reply to this comment

Palm's "Anti-Truth Squad"

Gekko @ 12/21/2005 7:35:31 AM # Q

beersie, fouts, dr. opinion, et al.

and they do it for FREE.



RE: Palm's Anti-Truth Squad
cervezas @ 12/21/2005 7:38:50 AM # Q
All present. All lies. All the time! :)

Gotta hand it to you, Gekko. It takes a subtle mind to conflate Marty Fouts' "Palm OS is dying" message with Dr. Opinion's "Palm OS is obliterating all competition" message and come up with a coherent lie that our "squad" is delivering. Perhaps coherence isn't the Anti-Truth Squad's goal but coverage. Since my lies lie somewhere in the middle between Marty's lies and Dr O's lies PIC readers have the full spectrum of lies available to them. Choose your lie: Palm OS is dying, Palm OS is in limbo, Palm OS is unstoppable.

Just remember: it's all a lie.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Palm's
KultiVator @ 12/21/2005 7:51:26 AM # Q
Not this crap again.

I think everyone agress that the Palm statistics are questionable due to the way they fence off certain segments of the market.

But lets not get into all that stone throwing again.

Just hope Palm have enough room with OS5.xxx to leverage some new functionality & features in the new models. Palm loyalists need some progress to be evident whilst we endure the long wait for the new platform. And hopefully, a new PDA model or two will make an entrance in the spring.

The model destined for international sales (outside US) will be the first product heavily influenced by Palm's Treo Centre in Ireland. This is an opportunity for Palm to gain some ground through incorporating the influences of the more cosmopolitan European cellular and tech markets. A failure to produce a trendier Treo would be a great missed opportunity in a region of the World where McDonald's now promote salads and healthy meals as much as their burgers!



RE: Palm's
Gekko @ 12/21/2005 8:59:11 AM # Q

beersie - just remember, it's not a life if *YOU* believe it.



RE: Palm's
cervezas @ 12/21/2005 9:07:19 AM # Q
Uh, yeah. Whatever that means.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: Palm's
LiveFaith @ 12/21/2005 9:12:57 AM # Q
I say ... BELIEVE and ye shall have LIFE ... Lizard Boy! :-D

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: Palm's
Gekko @ 12/21/2005 9:34:46 AM # Q

"These people (Church leaders) honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are rules taught by men." - Jesus, Matthew 15:8-9


RE: Palm's
freakout @ 12/21/2005 10:38:43 PM # Q
Cervezas wrote"

"Since my lies lie somewhere in the middle between Marty's lies and Dr O's lies PIC readers have the full spectrum of lies available to them. Choose your lie: Palm OS is dying, Palm OS is in limbo, Palm OS is unstoppable.

Just remember: it's all a lie."

ROFL, David. Nice one!

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)

Reply to this comment

"Four" new phones?

Tuckermaclain @ 12/21/2005 8:22:55 AM # Q
What a sobering thought.. only two new phones (2 will be 750p/w)
and two will be a p and w version of something else. Could really be ONE truly new Palm OS phone. Something like the older Treos would be sweet. Even a 320x480 Treo 90 type would work.


ATTENTION PALM: PLEASE DO NOT MAKE ME DO BETA TESTING ON THIS NEXT GROUP OF PHONES!!! I AM NO LONGER FLATTERED THAT YOU INCLUDE ME IN THE PROCESS!! JUST GIVE ME ONE THAT WORKS RIGHT AT THE START WITHOUT 6 MONTHS OF FRUSTRATION AND A TRICKLE OF UPDATES THAT ADDRESS 1/2 THE PROBLEMS. TRY DOING IT RIGHT. I WANT TO HIT THE GROUND RUNNING. YOUR REPUTATION IS CURRENTLY POOP. IF HONDA RELEASED THE 650 LIKE YOU DID THERE WOULD BE AN UPROAR LIKE YOU NEVER SAW BEFORE. WITH PALM PEOPLE HAVE COME TO EXPECT NOTHING MORE THAN "BETA-AT-BEST." STOP TRYING TO PUSH AWAY REPEAT SALES. IMPRESS US ALL SO WE CAN TELL THE WORLD.

RE:
Simony @ 12/22/2005 11:18:32 PM # Q
Well said.

Reply to this comment

All 3G?

cervezas @ 12/21/2005 8:49:36 AM # Q
"They will also implement next-generation radio technologies."

All of them? Did he really say that all four would be 3G? Earlier information was that Lowrider would not be 3G, IIRC.


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: All 3G?
LiveFaith @ 12/21/2005 9:14:24 AM # Q
I don't know about 3G, but I do know they will be high-speed data access through the Scottish countryside.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: All 3G?
KultiVator @ 12/21/2005 11:39:27 AM # Q
Hi Pat,

High speed data in the Scottish countryside? Is that the new satellite data service that was talked about many moons ago in the UK media?

Regards,

KultiVator

RE: All 3G?
AdamaDBrown @ 12/21/2005 12:20:23 PM # Q
I doubt it. As yet, there's no uniform satellite data service that covers the world, and you would need a lot more power than the average Treo to punch a signal out there.

The reference to high speed data (wasn't it in Ireland?) was made by Colligan, who was talking about how their "next generation product" would let him have high speed anywhere, even looking up his family history as he drove through Scotland, Ireland, wherever.

RE: All 3G?
cervezas @ 12/21/2005 2:13:19 PM # Q
3G phones work fine on 2.5 and 2G networks, AFAIK. The network throughput just degrades accordingly. By the time some of these phones come to market EV-DO will be in a hundred or so metro areas in the US, so it wouldn't be unreasonable if in a year we see many if not most new phones supporting it. I just didn't know if that would apply for Lowrider, which from the sound of it was going to be priced cheap enough to give away for free with a new wireless contract.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: All 3G?
LiveFaith @ 12/22/2005 10:32:13 AM # Q
No. It was Ed Colligen commenting about a month or two ago on using some kind of high-speed Treo product while driving/riding thru the Scottish(i think) countryside. Images of a 3G Euro device come immediately to mind.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: All 3G?
LiveFaith @ 12/22/2005 10:42:52 AM # Q
Oops, Irish.

"When you see our next-gen product, it has a high-speed radio in it, literally bringing kind of broadband connection speeds to the device. It totally changes the dynamic of how accessible the Internet is as an information access point wherever you are and whenever you want to get access to it.
Everything from looking up the meaning of words, booking a table at OpenTable.com, to doing a Google search on my family history in Ireland as Im driving through the Irish coast when were opening our center over there."

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: All 3G?
AdamaDBrown @ 12/22/2005 2:20:26 PM # Q
Wouldn't it be rather dangerous to drive *through* a coast? I mean, as I understand coastlines, they usually have an ocean on one side. That's not conducive to driving.

RE: All 3G?
LiveFaith @ 12/23/2005 1:54:38 AM # Q
Actually I think he was SURFING through the coastline ...

... pun intended

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

Reply to this comment

Congratulations Palm

Surur @ 12/21/2005 9:00:19 AM # Q
Its lovely that they are doing well, and even I can not say the move to WM saved the company (the treo 600/650 clearly did) but its certainly part of why analysts are so positive regarding the company's future. Instead of it being Palm vs everyone else, its now Palm leading all the other WM pack, in sales if not features (or thats what they hope at least).

I just wonder, if two years ago they knew the Treo would catch on as it did, if they would still have decided to get in bed with MS. It seems to me to have been a move made in desperation, from a weak position, vs their current market dominance (of course I do believe their stats are inflated, but thats another story).

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...

RE: Congratulations Palm
LiveFaith @ 12/21/2005 9:15:50 AM # Q
Surur,

Two years ago, the PDA world was abuzz about the secretive Treo 600. Hawkins, Dubinsky, Colligan and Co at Handspring had poured every $ they had into it. The Treo 180,270,300 had basically established the category by outpacing the Samsung & Kyocera "smartfone pretenders". Palm's "wireless VIIx reheated leftovers" strategy (i705 / T|W) was as worthy as screen doors on a submarine.

Palm saw the golden egg with the Treo 600. Effectively turning Palm into a consumer + biz + communicator company. Unfortunately they also sold their soul when they spun out Nagelsource.

Did they see such market leadership as they enjoy at the moment? Don't know, but they certainly knew where the innovation was and they turned out to be right.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Congratulations Palm
hkklife @ 12/21/2005 9:56:45 AM # Q
Pat;
Good comments about the Treo 600 golden egg. Even though I don't like it personally I admire what it did for the industry at the time. And, of course, it kept Palm afloat.

At the time I knew/said the Palm VII was a joke. Same with the VIIx & i705. Even the T|W (the best execution of that series, however) was destined to flop.

Palm should never have even tried to graft phone functionality onto the T|W. Instead, they should have had in their lineup a cellular DATA-only Tungsten: Spring '03 could've launched the T|C & a "real" T|W. Both with OS5, same formfactor and esssentially the same specs. Take your pick between wi-fi or cellular. Then come out with a model in fall '04 or spring '05 shoehorning wi-fi & a cellular radio (BT would be redundant) into the same formfactor with a removable battery and a better keyboard (think a 480*320 T|C with a larger Treo 650 style keyboard and no antenna). THAT would've put the fear of Pat Horne into RIM!

Alas, it's not to be.

Palm has coasted on the glories of the T|E and Treo 600 for well over two years now. Imagine what a single Palm Inc. (no PalmSource spin-off) could do with Hawkins/Dubinsky/Colligan and most of the Handspring team onboard, the Treo waiting in the wings and without the distractions of the spinoff/PalmOne rebranding/Palm rebranding/an extra $30 mil/bidding for PalmSource etc.

There probably would not have been a LifeDrive--or at least such a disasterous execution of such a device--had they not tried to play the shell game with their investors & their dwindling base of loyal customers. Now they are OUT of excuses. It's time for them to produce or be turned into glue. I would expect NO LESS than four new smartphones in '06 if they are to even be taken seriously by the carriers and the industry.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

RE: Congratulations Palm
KultiVator @ 12/21/2005 11:44:37 AM # Q
Here in the UK, phones come and phones go very quickly. Very few have lasting cult status.

At least the Treo 650 sales and following have remained strong, despite the known glitches.

Perhaps *if* Palm's QA dept has learned from its previous gaffs, the 3 new Treos will be all that's needed to bring in a solid stream of revenue?



British Invasion
cervezas @ 12/21/2005 2:20:39 PM # Q
We sure have a lot of Brits here. Let's see: Surer, ChiA, KultiVator, SamH, who am I missing?

It's interesting just because I don't think of the UK as being a big Palm stronghold.


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Congratulations Palm
Surur @ 12/21/2005 2:36:07 PM # Q

I hope we provide a global perspective for a global business. Its a big world out there.

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...

RE: Congratulations Palm
cervezas @ 12/21/2005 4:13:31 PM # Q
Huh. How about that... just checked and sure enough you guys *are* on the same globe as us! And here I thought the "U" in "UK" stood for Uranus. :)

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: Congratulations Palm
ChiA @ 12/21/2005 7:47:13 PM # Q
Beersie said And here I thought the "U" in "UK" stood for Uranus.

Funnily enough I had thought the same thing about the "U" in "USA".

:-)

"What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog" - Dwight D. Eisenhower

Reply to this comment

Congrats Palm

EdH @ 12/21/2005 1:43:11 PM # Q
Palm now has 78% of the US handheld marketshare
8 of the 10 best selling handhelds in the US are made by Palm

Man, with numbers like that, it really makes you wonder why they sold off PalmOS and have developed the Treo 700w that runs Windows Mobile. Why, if your product is as successful as they claim, would you start working with an OS from a bitter rival?

And 8 of 10 devices sold are made by palm? WOW!!!! Let's see, the Z22, Zire 31, T|X, E2, Zire 72, T5, Tungsten C and LifeDrive are on their site. That's 8. 100% of their stuff is in the top 10, besting the likes of the devices made by HP and Dell. Very impressive! This is superb news.

The whole Windows Mobile thing just totally confounds me. Why they do this? I mean, it can't be because the above numbers are misleading in any way is it? Not Palm. Never would they resort to picking over numbers so the likes of Dell would be excluded since you can't buy those at retail, or narrowly define "handheld" so as to exclude the myriad of devices HTC pumps out through carriers and VARs like iMate around the globe. No, no. Not possible. THis is like 2000 all over again. Bring back Carl Yankowski and let the revelry begin! I am having A PALM EPIPHANY!!!!!!!!!!!


RE: Congrats Palm
cervezas @ 12/21/2005 8:47:04 PM # Q
Errr...Ed? I think you've got a gold thread hanging from your... uh... here let me just take care of that for you.

Ew.



David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Congrats Palm
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 12/21/2005 10:26:57 PM # Q
"In another room, a few executives watched Carl Yankowski's interview on CNBC, taping it for playback at the employee meeting that was to commence in minutes. After CNBC announcers gushed over "the most talked-about IPO," the camera cut to Carl Yankowski in the Nasdaq studio. Usually a compelling public speaker, Yankowski seemed out of his element. When asked about larger screens for palmtops, he answered stiffly, "We are well positioned whichever way the market goes." As the interview came to a close, the reporter said, "I've got to ask you about your suit." Yankowski smiled. He was wearing a very special suit, he let on, designed to satisfy the public's high expectations from Palm's IPO. The shiny pinstripes woven into the otherwise standard wool suit were made from threads of pure gold. CNBC cut back to the studio anchor. "Was that for real?" he asked the correspondent. The Palm managers assembled around the TV set looked at each other. "We're not showing this video," one of the executives decreed. Then they walked out to start the employee meeting."

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Congrats Palm
freakout @ 12/21/2005 11:25:38 PM # Q
Who's Carl Yankowski?

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)
Palminfocenter SHOCKER!!!
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 12/21/2005 11:45:52 PM # Q
Who's Carl Yankowski?




I am.

TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Congrats Palm
hkklife @ 12/22/2005 12:04:13 AM # Q
We are now coming FULL circle with the PIC mud slinging--ragging on ol' Yank was in vogue back in '01ish--even before the days of mandatory registration on PIC! Hear, hear!

I'm going to go pour myself another drink ( a STIFF one!) before I go to bed. I'll see how this little morsel sorts itself out in the morn.

P.S.
You can buy yourself PLENTY of mint condition TH55s with last summer's Majesco lump payout, eh, "Carl"? ;-) ;-)



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

Season-ending Palminfocenter SHOCKER!!!
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 12/22/2005 12:10:43 AM # Q
You can buy yourself PLENTY of mint condition TH55s with last summer's Majesco lump payout, eh, "Carl"? ;-) ;-)



Hey, they should have looked into my track record BEFORE they hired me.

I already have all the NEW (unopened) Bluetooth TH55 I'll ever need and have Bluetoothed my entire bunker. I'm especially proud of my Bluetoothed Bathroom. Last week I asked my old buddy Dianne Hackborn to code me a special app called "Flush" (complete with a swirling Palm logo animation) before she and all the American PalmSource employees are "downsized" by Cheap Chinese Codemonkeys next year.

Wait until you see Cobalt running on my TH55. Unbelievable. I'm running the latest version of Cobalt (code name: Ether) and it's almost as fast as when I use my 33 MHz Dragonball to transcode DVDs.

The bunker is carpeted with golden fleece and the wallpaper is made of written off Palm Vx. Don't hate me.

Love,
Carl "Bluetooth" Yankowski (a.k.a. "Tubby")

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Congrats Palm
Simony @ 12/22/2005 11:23:51 PM # Q
Wow, this EdH is it really THE Mr Hansberry, webmaster extraordinaire, of that august website pocketpcfarts.com? My goodness, have we really been visited by that paragon of unbiased reporting?

RE: Congrats Palm
LiveFaith @ 12/23/2005 1:57:46 AM # Q
Ether! VR, you're killin' me man.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: Congrats Palm
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 12/27/2005 4:03:00 PM # Q
Ether! VR, you're killin' me man.

;-O

Pat, will you PLEASE license your "Treo 800g" design to Palm? I beseech (sp?) you!

TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Congrats Palm
freakout @ 12/27/2005 4:55:11 PM # Q
^^^ Don't forget the Flipper too!

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)
Reply to this comment

Any Ideas on who this International Carrier Might be?

ChiA @ 12/21/2005 8:32:19 PM # Q
Colligan also stated that one of these models was designed specifically for a large international carrier and may not ever see a US release.

I can only think of Vodafone, Orange or T-mobile.
I'll be interested in what other companies can be considered as large international carriers; I think it's fair to say that these three are the largest, certainly in terms of the number of countries where they operate a mobile network.



"It is commonly said, and more particularly by Lord Shaftesbury, that ridicule is the best test of truth".
Lord Chesterfield

RE: Any Ideas on who this International Carrier Might be?
PenguinPowered @ 12/21/2005 8:57:52 PM # Q
I have no idea, but maybe he wasn't talking about number of countries, but rather number of subscribes. Who is large in China? Maybe he simply meant DoCoMo?


Marty Fouts

I survived PalmSource '05

RE: Any Ideas on who this International Carrier Might be?
hkklife @ 12/21/2005 10:37:02 PM # Q
My guess? Orange or Vodafone. T-Mobile hasn't been too terribly hot on the Treo (at least domestically--I don't follow DT's moves in Germany).

Wasn't Orange a bit late to the Treo 650 party?

At any rate, look for a big push in Europe in '06 by Palm. In order to do that, however, they've GOT to shrink the Treo down in size, even if it means neutering the feature set. Europeans hate ungainly atennae protruding out of their phones. Americans can still accept , in addition to antenna warts, marginal NTSC signals, Wal-Mart, shoddy highways, AMPS cellular and overpriced broadband. Europeans cannot ;-)

(I'm not trying to start another flame war, just merrily tossing out some food for thought on the differing mentalities across the pond in some segments).



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

RE: Any Ideas on who this International Carrier Might be?
AdamaDBrown @ 12/22/2005 3:33:27 AM # Q
If it were DoCoMo, there wouldn't be any question about it not getting released in the US. DoCoMo's network isn't compatible to anyone else's. I'm guessing it's Orange or Vodafone.

RE: Any Ideas on who this International Carrier Might be?
ChiA @ 12/22/2005 4:51:42 AM # Q
Marty said maybe he wasn't talking about number of countries, but rather number of subscribes

international - adjective 1 existing or occurring between nations. 2 agreed on or used by all or many nations.
( Courtesy of Oxford English Dictionary )

True, some use the word international simply to refer to something or someone foreign to their country but that's just poor use of language. I hope Palm/Ed Colligan doesn't fall into that category!

"It is commonly said, and more particularly by Lord Shaftesbury, that ridicule is the best test of truth".
Lord Chesterfield

RE: Any Ideas on who this International Carrier Might be?
ChiA @ 12/22/2005 5:08:50 AM # Q
Ed did say this Palm is being made specifically for this carrier and that it may not be released in the US.

By implication there's a possibility that it can be released in the US therefore this carrier must operate in the US, remember this Treo is being made specifically (ie exclusively) for this carrier. Therefore the carrier operates in at least two countries (ie the US and one other country, probably more) if they can market their exclusive phone without bringing it to the US.

For your information, Verizon Wireless is a joint venture between Vodafone and Verizon Communications. Vodafone operates in 41 countries around the globe - that's what I call international! It's undoubtedly the world's largest mobile operator and it's a real scoop if Palm is manufacturing exclusively for them.


"It is commonly said, and more particularly by Lord Shaftesbury, that ridicule is the best test of truth".
Lord Chesterfield

RE: Any Ideas on who this International Carrier Might be?
KultiVator @ 12/22/2005 6:31:53 AM # Q
I'm hoping it is Vodafone, simply due to their network coverage (including 3G) within the UK - and the fact that they're our Corporate provider, so I'm more likely to be able to get my employer to buy me one!

RE: Any Ideas on who this International Carrier Might be?
marcol @ 12/22/2005 6:39:41 AM # Q
I've posted something similar before, so apologies to those who hate repetition.

In the recent NYT interview:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/10/business/10extended.html?ex=1135400400&en=537604d0dc29b9a5&ei=5070

Ed Colligan mentions Vodafone a couple of times:

"The services Vodafone offers are very different to that Verizon offers, so we no have a dedicated team here building on the network and service preferences of our European customers.

" The company will also continue to work to support Vodafones RealMail service"

Add to that the fact that Palm have opened an R&D centre in Ireland, a country in which Vodafone has a network but Orange doesn't, and the UK Palm site has been advertising the 650 on Vodafone but not Orange, and I think the signs are pointing to a Palm-Voda alliance (possibly with the loss of links with Orange).

Ed also said:

"When you see our next-gen product, it has a high-speed radio in it, literally bringing kind of broadband connection speeds to the device. It totally changes the dynamic of how accessible the Internet is as an information access point wherever you are and whenever you want to get access to it.
Everything from looking up the meaning of words, booking a table at OpenTable.com, to doing a Google search on my family history in Ireland as Im driving through the Irish coast when were opening our center over there."

So we can conclude that Ed had a working 3G GSM device a couple of months ago and the Hollywood release might not be that far away.

Will it be POS or WM5? I've been quite convinced by surur's argument, both here and at TreoCentral, that Hollywood would be WM5, the major doubt being that a WM5 device mght tread on Verizon's toes (if not actually contravene the exclusivity agreement). I'm sure Palm doen't want to be in the business of upsetting the carriers with which it's worked so hard to build relationships. Reading between the lines though:

"Colligan also stated that one of these models was designed specifically for a large international carrier and may not ever see a US release."

might be "We'll release it overseas first and not in the US until we can do so without peeing off Verizon".

My prediction then (FWIW!):

Hollywood: WM5, quad band, UMTS, 320x240 screen, no keyboard, Vodafone, April 2006.

320x240 because 1) the WM5 UI is horribly cramped on 240x240, 2) movies would just be nasty in a letter box on a 240x240 (you can't have a multi-media device, code named Hollywood!, that's bad for movies, can you?), 3) VGA would probably kill the battery too quickly.

No keyboard because: 1) putting it under a 320x240 would make the device too long, 2) flips and slideout solutions make devices fat (Universal, Wizard) and it's supposed to be thin.

April because: it's the coolest month*

*sorry!!



RE: Any Ideas on who this International Carrier Might be?
fishtastic @ 12/22/2005 8:06:36 AM # Q
Quote:
"No keyboard because: 1) putting it under a 320x240 would make the device too long"

Benq P50?

Fish

RE: Any Ideas on who this International Carrier Might be?
LiveFaith @ 12/22/2005 10:44:52 AM # Q
I really don't see Palm tinkering with the form factor too much. Hard to see a lower end model getting better rez than the WM flagship too. I can see an antenna drop and a thinner device with small screen, but I don't see the keyboard getting lost, fo it seems the whole communication's side of convergence depends on it. JMO.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: Any Ideas on who this International Carrier Might be?
fishtastic @ 12/22/2005 12:18:51 PM # Q
Keboard-less, touchscreen, phones have not done well in the UK market. Anyone remember Motos attempt many moons ago? No? Not suprised.

Fish

RE: Any Ideas on who this International Carrier Might be?
marcol @ 12/22/2005 1:05:30 PM # Q
RE: Any Ideas on who this International Carrier Might be?
marcol @ 12/22/2005 1:09:00 PM # Q
I really don't see Palm tinkering with the form factor too much. Hard to see a lower end model getting better rez than the WM flagship too. I can see an antenna drop and a thinner device with small screen, but I don't see the keyboard getting lost, fo it seems the whole communication's side of convergence depends on it. JMO.

I agree with you that the Treo's permanently exposed keyboard makes it a much better communication device (email, sms, speed dialing, contact look-up all much better for its presence) but if, as rumoured and as the name implies, it's meant to be a mutlimedia device I don't see how video, movies etc are going to a satisfying experience on a square screen. It may be that Palm and the unnamed carrier are positioning Hollywood for a different market to the 650. After all, most of the communication stuff doesn't really need 3G data speeds but streaming video (and TV?) most certainly does.

RE: Any Ideas on who this International Carrier Might be?
marcol @ 12/22/2005 1:32:03 PM # Q
"Keboard-less, touchscreen, phones have not done well in the UK market. Anyone remember Motos attempt many moons ago? No? Not suprised."

I've seen a few of the various HTC Magician-base devices arround. I actually had one myself for a while (hated it - diabolical one-handed navigation).

RE: Any Ideas on who this International Carrier Might be?
LiveFaith @ 12/22/2005 2:08:35 PM # Q
Hmmm. If "hollywood" is about movies and vids, then maybe the Treo 800g is about to be center stage! If so, I'll either move to the UK or import it.

http://www.churchoflivingfaith.com/images/treo800big.jpg

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

Two ways of looking at it....
freakout @ 12/22/2005 9:22:57 PM # Q
Hollywood will either be:

1)Thin and stylish
2)Keyboardless

or

1)Have a pathetic battery life (in comparison to the 650)
2)Useless for messaging

The way I see it, you can't slim down a power-hungry smartphone like the Treo too much without severely compromising the battery life. I can get two days of constant usage out of my 650 before it dies. Will Hollywood be able to make the same claim?

And even if it doesn't have a keyboard, it will *need* at least a physical keypad. SMS is a lot bigger in Europe and Oz than it is in the US. Touchscreens don't provide the tactile feedback you need when typing away, and Graffiti require two hands free.

It seems the best option is to just hide the keyboard, which has become one of the Treo's distinguishing features. Whether with a slider or a flip, or even leaving it exposed, I don't care. But you can't get rid of physical buttons on a phone. Years in the future maybe. But not yet.

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)

RE: Any Ideas on who this International Carrier Might be?
SeldomVisitor @ 12/23/2005 7:52:50 AM # Q
> ...I really don't see Palm tinkering with the form factor too much...

All the phones in photos in the TREO 700w Operating Manual are flip-phones.

RE: Any Ideas on who this International Carrier Might be?
LiveFaith @ 12/25/2005 12:17:45 AM # Q
RE: Any Ideas on who this International Carrier Might be?
Tuckermaclain @ 12/26/2005 2:45:14 PM # Q
Sigh. Why doesn't Pat work for Palm?

RE: Any Ideas on who this International Carrier Might be?
freakout @ 12/26/2005 5:53:55 PM # Q
Here here! (or is it Hear Hear?)

Although, I'd like the flipper design better if it retained 650-style hard buttons in a row, rather than the 4x4 grid design. Hard buttons in a row works much better for games...

Other than that, it's awesome.

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)

Reply to this comment

This is confirmed...

joad @ 12/21/2005 9:29:39 PM # Q
Yup: the 700w + 2 firmware updates = 3 Treo Smartphones.

Same old, same old....

Reply to this comment

Palm in Europe

KultiVator @ 12/22/2005 5:03:00 AM # Q
Palm, have on the whole, done pretty well in the UK over the years, despite the larger retail chains promoting Pocket-PC hardware far more actively than models from Palm in recent times.

Over here, I see really two main groups of Palm users...

1) The original early adopters, who have (often unknowingly) promoted Palm from the start.

2) Those who joined the PDA market later, had a flashy looking-Ipaq as their first handheld, having undertaken no more research into their purchase than how nice the shiny silver casing looked. They invariably loved the Ipaq for a month or two, then put it in a drawer and forgot about it. Sometime later, they were left wondering what their Palm owning friends saw in their handheld, then started to appreciate the reasons for Palm owners generally sticking with uglier, simpler-looking PDAs.

Unfortunately (in a way), Palm's ship has been tossed around in the wake of the Pocket-PC whilst the crew were busy sleeping - and now many of the benefits of Palm's models, such as long battery life, simplicity and stability have eroded somewhat, in the fight to try to keep up with agile players, such as Dell & HP. The result is a UK market that is quite volatile, with Palm owners having less compelling reasons to buy this years new Palm models, when the hardware hasn't moved forward very much. Meantime, Dell and HP are shifting handhelds, but don't seem to generate the loyalty found amongst Palm users - but as long as they're shifting units, what do they care?

Whilst frequently travelling all over Europe in my work role, few meetings I attend will be free from a handful of colleagues pulling out a Palm PDA of some description. On the flip side of that, though, the Treo has yet to really make an impact in the same circles - so it will be interesting to see if Palm's presence in Ireland will result in a model with more Euro appeal. But for that to happen, the next Treos will need to offer good reasons for European corporate buyers to look away from RIMs offerings - and simply bundling a copy of 'Blackberry Connect' is unlikely to be enough to make that happen. Palm needs to play a master card and bundle the right killer software with a well featured, stylish Treo that is well thought out and above all else, well tested prior to launch. The LifeDrive failed on most of these fronts, it really should have been a hot video/picture/music playback fans dream. But Palm did little to harness that opportunity, the supplied multimedia player/conversion tools are not worth talking about. So in the mean time, the 'iPod Video' and PSP have surged ahead in the goal to produce the first true generation 'multi-media walkman'.

Europe needs Palm to make a definite move to claim such markets, rather than churn out more models that fall short on hardware features, or lack essential 'in the box' killer software for the intended market. The LifeDrive project had the potential for Palm to appeal to anyone interested in carrying a movie/tv-show/rock-concert, etc, on the train/plane/bus/business trip with them - a very big market in Europe alone. If there ever is a LifeDrive 2, I want it to be a really slick & well conceived multimedia jukebox, with all the right PDA and workstation tools supplied by Palm. LifeDrive 2 should not be just another shallow effort to weld a small HDD to an aging PDA hardware design, with a poorly patched version of Garnet adding to the failure. Perhaps a second edition could embed a GPS receiver in the LifeDrive 2 case and voila a really tidy TomTom 5 unit, containing maps of the whole European region, with added multimedia capabilities and
a nice screen whose backlight doubles in intensity when powered by an external source?

In a nut-shell Palm, where's your imagination? Let's see more of that Treo revenue churned into the R&D cycle for the products that will keep your business alive until Garnet can be put to rest.

KultiVator

RE: Palm in Europe
freakout @ 12/22/2005 9:35:01 PM # Q
"The LifeDrive failed on most of these fronts, it really should have been a hot video/picture/music playback fans dream. But Palm did little to harness that opportunity, the supplied multimedia player/conversion tools are not worth talking about. So in the mean time, the 'iPod Video' and PSP have surged ahead in the goal to produce the first true generation 'multi-media walkman'."

Damn straight. I was always surprised no one other than Palm in all these years ever thought of licensing the PalmOS to make their own killer media player. The software's been there for a few years now, and Palm's lack of innovation in this area has been killing me ever since I got my Treo. The third-party companies have stepped up to the plate and done a fantastic job, but in 2005, all these media playback options should have been on my device to begin with.*

All they'd need to do is license Lathe, TCPMP and PocketTunes for every Treo. They could remove all the extra options from Lathe and just optimize it for Treo screens, and with a few UI tweaks TCPMP could be amazing, not just great. Palm are experts at good UI's. Why haven't they simply licensed the open-source technologies behind TCPMP and built their own proprietary UI on top of it? Bang! The Treo could give the iPod Video a run for its money.

*To be fair, Realpayer is included for mp3s. And the Media app can playback quite a few different kinds of video, but you'd never know it unless you thought to try. Palm certainly don't advertise it, to my disbelief.

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)

RE: Palm in Europe
LiveFaith @ 12/23/2005 2:01:29 AM # Q
Tim,

I've wondered the same thing myself. Hire someone to merge the DVDdecrypter + PocketDivXEncoder into 1 desktop app with a unmistakable user interface with limited options for 320x320 or HVGA. Have the option to copy the DVD direct to the SD at the click of a button. Skin TCPMP to look like your other apps and shazaam ... Pocket Movie Direct is born!

All the hard work's been done it seems.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Palm in Europe
KultiVator @ 12/23/2005 5:04:26 AM # Q
Or perhaps Palm should consider incorporating a vid-capture feature (single chip affairs these days)directly in the hardware and use LifeDrive 2 to compete with units from Archos and the like?

At least Palm would then prove that they have imagination and the ability to position a product to exploit a particularly lucrative and growing market. At the same time offering a simple portable VCR-type functionality for the non-technical users and a software conversion tools for those wishing to convert existing MPEG/Quicktime/AVI footage to the correct resolution/bitrate to flow nicely on LifeDrive.

KultiVator



RE: Palm in Europe
rsc1000 @ 12/23/2005 10:11:54 AM # Q
Yes!!! Un-freakin-believable that Palm hasn't capitalised on the multi-media market! Palm OS devices were doing mp3 before ipod and yet apple came along with sexy looking units (with good ui design) and - most of all - MARKETING! All that work that went into the lifedrive and yet they failed to take it the extra 2% of the way and just add tcpmp and more importantly - advertise the CRAP out of it! I mean - everybody knows of the ipod - look at all of the tv / radio / billboard ads that Apple paid untold ten-of-millions for.
Now perhaps it's good that Palm didn't do this yet because of the technical flaws in their execution of the Lifedrive concept. But when v2 comes around, they need to make everybody in the world aware of the fact that this thing plays all video formats, all audio formats, AND does 5000 other things that the ipod and the newer media players cannot do. I'm talking a major tv ad campaign that shows kids playing Warfare Inc. and Edge while listening to their mp3s. Ads with smarmy ipod kids being cooly shown up by their Lifedrive peers demonstrating that their Palm does the same - and a million things more. I bet 95% of the north american population has never heard of a lifedrive and does not realize that u can even play video on a Palm (probably more likee 99%). The geeks here know, but just last night i ran into a clie user and told him about tcpmp. He couldn't believe that u could playback 'real' video on a Palm device. Most people still think Palms are those old black and white organizers and that real multimedia capabilities in a pda only exist in Pocket PC units.

Palm: advertise, advertise, advertise! Why are these guys acting so conservatively while the rest of the world is running them over? They need to take that $200 million (!!!!) tax rebate and just spend 30-40% on a major tv blitz. Palm - wake up!!! It's 2005, not 1998! Your market is no longer some $50-100 million niche market that you have all to yourself. You have competition now - but you have MUCH greater opportunity now too. Success is right there for the taking!

Well? What r u waiting for? Replace those stagnent marketing hacks and get going!!!


RE: Palm in Europe
freakout @ 12/24/2005 4:28:10 AM # Q
"Or perhaps Palm should consider incorporating a vid-capture feature (single chip affairs these days)directly in the hardware and use LifeDrive 2 to compete with units from Archos and the like?"

I think I remember reading somewhere (no link, sorry) that the Multi-Connector on all the new Palms can do video out. Is that true? And if so, why haven't they developed anything at all to exploit it?

Maybe Garnet limitations?

My own idea for Palm: a Bluetooth remote for PocketTunes would be nice. Preferable one that I could stick on my steering wheel.

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)

RE: Palm in Europe
KultiVator @ 12/27/2005 7:26:12 AM # Q
Palm seem to forget that lack of imagination in their product range = lack of reason for user base to upgrade to latest crop of devices.

It also gives early adopters little to wow their peers with - meaning less proliferation.

So the Palm economy suffers all round.

Now all we need is for Maxis software to bring out a "Sim Palm Inc" game and we could all have a go at running the company!

Hope you guys are all enjoying the festive season!

I am looking out of my study window at a very snowy English scene - the first time this close to Xmas that I can remember. Let's hope Palm future is less bleak.

KultiVator

Reply to this comment

They killed the Treo 700w !!!

Surur @ 12/22/2005 2:45:24 PM # Q
Its official ! Palm has lost their mind.

The offical specs memory wise of the Treo 700 w is :

32MB RAM, 10.8 MB Free after boot!!
Flash is 64MB, 52MB free.

http://blog.treonauts.com/2005/12/treo_700w_specs.html

WHAT WERE THEY THINKING!!!

To compare it to another recent EVDO WM5 device.

PPC 6700
64MB RAM
49.42 available to OS
34.69 available to user after boot

Treo 700w
32MB RAM
25.49 available to OS
10.84 available to user after boot.

The device is stillborn. Again, WHAT WERE THEY THINKING!!!

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...

RE: They killed the Treo 700w !!!
hkklife @ 12/22/2005 3:06:20 PM # Q
GREED, GREED, GREED!

The road is now surely (Sururely?) paved for the 750W!

UNLESS...this pitiful amount was somehow forced upon Palm by Verizon. I cannot fathom why they'd impose such a restriction other than to keep their users running "lean'n mean" 700Ws so as to minimize the headaches of Verizon support personnel.



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

RE: They killed the Treo 700w !!!
Gekko @ 12/22/2005 3:51:52 PM # Q

95% of their target market won't notice or care.



RE: They killed the Treo 700w !!!
Surur @ 12/22/2005 3:52:20 PM # Q

Well, that removes one bullet-point from the comparison table.

Treo 650
* Cant multi-task

Treo 700w
* Cant multi-task either.

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...

RE: They killed the Treo 700w !!!
Gekko @ 12/22/2005 3:57:13 PM # Q

neither can the blacberry but that does ok.

RE: They killed the Treo 700w !!!
Surur @ 12/22/2005 4:03:43 PM # Q

True, but this is certainly very far from a high end device. Why did they have to miss EVERY opportunity to make this device at least equivalent to the other devices on the market. It has less ram, less ROM, no WIFI, slower processor, older bluetooth, no A2DP, the list goes on. The only thing it has going for it is the form factor (as usual).

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...

RE: They killed the Treo 700w !!!
hkklife @ 12/22/2005 4:29:09 PM # Q
Surur, I STILL don't see the attraction behind the Treo FF other than people being "comfortable" with it by this point.

As LONG as there's a protruding antenna and a SSS (small square screen) this thing will IMO be severaly handicapped--it's certainly no icon from a design or build quality standpoint. Many (myself included) prefer the buttons on the 650 over the squarish 700w shape. At least it looks a bit thinner & curvier at the bottom.

The reduced RAM & ROM are the result of Palm's greedy neutering, plain & simple. Wi-Fi can at LEAST be remedied by an SDIO card but again, the crippling lack of RAM! CPU is honestly a minor concern at this point and, as Gekko said, not worth worrying over by their target audience. Look at the TX vs. T5 for example.

No A2DP is another grievous error, yes. Palm's trying to coast along on BT 1.1 for about as long as they coasted on 160*160 screens.

I cannot shake the feeling that the 700w hardware has been "done" for a year or so. The delays have been the result of tinkering with WinMob and getting familiar with it as well as negotiating with Verizon/M$ for agreeable terms.


Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

RE: They killed the Treo 700w !!!
KultiVator @ 12/22/2005 4:52:02 PM # Q
HkkLife wrote:

"I cannot shake the feeling that the 700w hardware has been "done" for a year or so."

You're probably right on this. Despite Palm putting on a brave face about the MS relationship, I bet the decision to prototype a WinMob unit was somewhat easier than the decision to put the thing into production.

That there new fangled Treo W.... it has no balls!


A Tired & Weary KultiVator

RE: They killed the Treo 700w !!!
Surur @ 12/22/2005 4:58:20 PM # Q

The Treo 700w actually has BT 1.2, but BT 2.0 is already out on some devices.

Obviously the exposed keyboard is THE Treo (and blackberry) feature. The antenna etc is just fluff.

I imagine Palm team sitting there saying:

Executive :"mmm, we can save $3 per device if we use 32MB RAM modules vs 64MB ones"
Engineer :"It will make it run like a dog though... but what the hell!"
Together :"Screw those POS defectors!!!"
Executive :"But how do we sell not upgrading RAM for 3 years?"
Engineer :"We'll tell them it will increase run time by a whole 30 min and standby time by 1 day!"
Cue evil laughter.

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...

RE: They killed the Treo 700w !!!
Gekko @ 12/22/2005 5:07:57 PM # Q

1. wifi hurts verzion data plan revenue.
2. 32MB RAZM is good enough for your average joe.



RE: They killed the Treo 700w !!!
Gekko @ 12/22/2005 5:28:30 PM # Q

no - the palm execs say "who cares about specs? it says 'palm/treo', it will sell anyway. ship it!"

RE: They killed the Treo 700w !!!
freakout @ 12/22/2005 5:53:11 PM # Q
Surely you can run apps from the SD Card?

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)
RE: They killed the Treo 700w !!!
Surur @ 12/22/2005 5:54:22 PM # Q

Its not about storage space, its about working ram.

Its like buying a windows xp box with a 80GB HDD and 128MB ram. It will work, but its the least they could get away with, and it will work poorly, limiting the advanced user. It would probably work OK if you only used outlook express and one window in IE, but dont try running photoshop or even firefox.

Its exactly analogous, except WM does not even have swap, meaning when you are out of ram you are out of ram, and other running apps just get closed, or the device even freezes.

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...

RE: They killed the Treo 700w !!!
freakout @ 12/22/2005 6:00:18 PM # Q
Surur wrote

"Well, that removes one bullet-point from the comparison table.

Treo 650
* Cant multi-task......"

Sorry dude, got to call you on this one. I use my GPS with PocketTunes running in the background all the time. As you yourself have noted, anything's possible with enough programmer talent/motivation...

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)

RE: They killed the Treo 700w !!!
marcol @ 12/22/2005 6:12:55 PM # Q
32 MB RAM might be fine, especially if they're using NOR flash ROM, which allows XIP (so progs don't need to be loaded into RAM to run).

http://blogs.msdn.com/windowsmobile/archive/2005/08/19/453784.aspx

Blackberry's Treo Eater
ChiA @ 12/22/2005 6:13:57 PM # Q
Everyones's catching up with the Treo's abilities:
Just look at the Blackberry 8700c:
www.blackberry.com/products/blackberry8700/blackberry8700c.shtml

This Blackberry matches or exceeds almost all the features of the Treo 700w (Windows Mobile excepted)

If the Treo 700w is the best Palm has to offer for 2006 then the Blackberry 8700c is smacking its lips, waiting to eat the 700w alive!

If, as Gekko said, 95% of the market don't care about the crippled 32MB of the 700w, then that 95% is more likely to go for the "talk of the town" Blackberry than the relatively geeky Treo.

"It is commonly said, and more particularly by Lord Shaftesbury, that ridicule is the best test of truth".
Lord Chesterfield

RE: They killed the Treo 700w !!!
AdamaDBrown @ 12/22/2005 6:20:38 PM # Q
To be nitpicky, the 700w would have to have 128 MB flash in order to have 52 MB free. The smallest packaging of WM5 I've seen was around 30 MB, no way they squeezed it into only 10-12 MB of flash.

The RAM really is too cheap, though. They should have gone with the standard and provided at least 64 MB. Not to be too pessimistic though, 10 MB free is still enough to run several low-drain apps simultaneously.

RE: They killed the Treo 700w !!!
Gekko @ 12/22/2005 6:25:33 PM # Q

maybe marcol is right - maybe 32MB on the WM Treo will function more like heap?


RE: They killed the Treo 700w !!!
marcol @ 12/22/2005 6:38:44 PM # Q
"To be nitpicky, the 700w would have to have 128 MB flash in order to have 52 MB free. The smallest packaging of WM5 I've seen was around 30 MB, no way they squeezed it into only 10-12 MB of flash."

I don't have any real knowledge of this, just what I read in the WM team blog, but couldn't it be that the OS and other default bits get loaded into RAM on boot and XIPing from NOR ROM is reserved for third party and built in apps? Looking at the pic on treonauts, something is using 25 MB of RAM (the OS? firmware?).

RE: They killed the Treo 700w !!!
marcol @ 12/22/2005 6:53:56 PM # Q
^^OK I was a bit confused with reality and hypothesis there. I hope you get the general idea though!

RE: They killed the Treo 700w !!!
freakout @ 12/22/2005 6:57:00 PM # Q
Surur wrote:
"Its like buying a windows xp box with a 80GB HDD and 128MB ram..."

Ah, now *that* makes sense to me. Like my Mum's PC. Runs like an absolute dog...

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)

RE: They killed the Treo 700w !!!
hkklife @ 12/22/2005 7:13:23 PM # Q
You can still buy Dells with 256mb base RAM and Windows Media Center...until recently you could get a Dell with 128mb RAM and Win XP.

Cutting RAM is the oldest cost-cutting strategy in the world-not necevssarily to save a few $ but to push people towards the higher-margin "loaded" model.

I've long maintained that Palm should at least offer from Palm.com "higher RAM" versions of their mainstream retail offerings. It really does look like the "generous" amounts of RAM lavished on the T|C, T3, T5, and TX doesn't apply in the smartphone world.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

RE: They killed the Treo 700w !!!
EdH @ 12/22/2005 8:05:02 PM # Q
32MB RAM, 10.8 MB Free after boot!!

Surur, where does it say that is after a boot? At the time I am posting this, there are several asking about this but Andrew hasn't responded.

RE: They killed the Treo 700w !!!
Surur @ 12/22/2005 8:10:44 PM # Q
Its an assumption, but a pretty safe one.

PPC 6700
64MB RAM
49.42 available to OS
34.69 available to user after boot
15 MB used by OS

Treo 700w
32MB RAM
25.49 available to OS
10.84 available to user after boot.
15 MB used by OS

Dell x51v (non-phone)
64 MB of RAM
49.47 MB available to OS
32.65 MB available to user after boot
16.82 MB used by OS

HP 1950 (32 MB non-phone)
12 MB available to user after boot.

Its pretty clear, the way most of these devices are set up, that the OS uses 15+ MB.

Surur



They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...

RE: They killed the Treo 700w !!!
AdamaDBrown @ 12/23/2005 1:55:55 AM # Q
I don't have any real knowledge of this, just what I read in the WM team blog, but couldn't it be that the OS and other default bits get loaded into RAM on boot and XIPing from NOR ROM is reserved for third party and built in apps? Looking at the pic on treonauts, something is using 25 MB of RAM (the OS? firmware?).

According to the WM dev who broke it down, the base OS uses a bare minimum of roughly 7-12 MB when optimally configured. This, I believe, is what's subtracted off the top from the displayed amount of RAM. Most OEMs of 64 MB devices add another ~15 MB or so to the total RAM usage due to design decisions, setting aside buffers (for the file system and/or graphics), and other configuration choices. So it may be the case that there's only 10 MB available on boot. Of course, it might also be the case that there were a half dozen apps running at the time. We'll have to wait for Treonauts to confirm.

RE: They killed the Treo 700w !!!
LiveFaith @ 12/23/2005 2:16:52 AM # Q
Well, that removes one bullet-point from the comparison table.
Treo 650
* Cant multi-task
Treo 700w
* Cant multi-task either.

... Surur, that's hillarious!

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: They killed the Treo 700w !!!
rsc1000 @ 12/23/2005 10:33:32 AM # Q
>>Gekko @ 12/22/2005 3:57:13 PM #

>>neither can the blacberry but that does ok.

The blackberries have been able to multitask for a few years now (anybody can see this buy holding down the functin/control key and clicking ther back button - u get the task manager thingy).
It's actually problematic now that 3rd party apps are gaining traction because - although it does multitasking - it basically counts on the idea that users won't do this much, as it results in noticeable performance hits. Until the 7130 and 8700, most BBs have run a mobile 286 processor in the 40-50mhz range! Not a lot of juice for a multi-tasking OS whose API allows only interpretted java code no less! There is no such thing as the ability to do native code for Blackberry - devs are locked out (i.e there will be no linux for Blackberry ever).

RE: They killed the Treo 700w !!!
cervezas @ 12/23/2005 10:57:05 AM # Q
Treo 650
* Can't multi-task
Treo 700w
* Can't multi-task either.

Will it at least be able to perform background crashes?


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Reply to this comment

$300 for the lowest cost newbie 'TREO' (*)

SeldomVisitor @ 12/22/2005 5:27:13 PM # Q
The CEO (tried to) redefined the cellphone price sweetspot from the industry-standard $100 to "$99 to $299". To THIS jaded reader/listener that suggests the lowest-entry new TREO purportedly to be introduced in 2006 will be priced at $299.

(*) Can a TREO be a TREO without a QWERTY keyboard? How strange!

RE: $300 for the lowest cost newbie 'TREO' (*)
marcol @ 12/22/2005 6:45:07 PM # Q
>Can a TREO be a TREO without a QWERTY keyboard? How strange!

Has been before, could be again! As I recall though the 180g was a bit of a flop.

RE: $300 for the lowest cost newbie 'TREO' (*)
freakout @ 12/22/2005 7:10:54 PM # Q
You can get a Treo 650 on Earthlink for $99 now I think.

If they can do that, surely Lowrider can be cheaper...

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)

RE: $300 for the lowest cost newbie 'TREO' (*)
hkklife @ 12/22/2005 8:23:05 PM # Q
Interesting note (from what I've seen, perhaps this is an incorrect observation):

The Earthlink Treo (riding on the Sprint network, btw) has not received ANY firmware or downloadable updates.

Perhaps that's Palm's strategy with the $200 budget Lowrider Treo--no support/mask ROM?

Aren't cell phones with non-updatable firmware a no-no, especially for CDMA carriers?

A keyboard-free Treo wouldn't be THAT big of a deal if implemented properly. Heck, I'd give up the keyboard in a heartbeat if I could have a decently sized 320*480 screen!

The NGage is now completely dead, btw. RIM's still in hot water. Now's the time for Palm to strike and to STOP being stingy with the RAM! Can anyone else recall a company posting nice profits & growth in a calendar year in which they release NO new smartphones (aka the "flagship product of the future")?

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

RE: $300 for the lowest cost newbie 'TREO' (*)
LiveFaith @ 12/23/2005 2:20:53 AM # Q
... probably a Treo 600 like lowrider with Z22 guts, exact same bright / tiny 160x160, keyboard, mini-USB & hip style. Kinda like "A Treo in Every Pot" vision.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
Reply to this comment

Jan. 5th = Reported 700w Release

LiveFaith @ 12/23/2005 2:47:09 AM # Q
He's Quoting 128MB ROM & 60MB RAM !?!?!?!
LiveFaith @ 12/23/2005 3:13:00 AM # Q
He states that VZW database shows 128MB ROM & 60MB RAM for the 700w!!! Palm may be spared immediate death if so.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: Jan. 5th = Reported 700w Release
SeldomVisitor @ 12/23/2005 7:47:38 AM # Q
The PALM CEO JUST got done saying more than one time under repeated questioning "early 2006".

If it were "earliest 2006" he would have said so.

Be Careful Out There!

RE: Jan. 5th = Reported 700w Release
michaelcpowell @ 12/23/2005 11:58:19 AM # Q
I find the January 5th date to be very credible because, at 11 AM that day, Verizon's CEO is making a speech at CES:

Industry Insider: Ivan Seidenberg
11 a.m. Thursday, January 5, 2006, Sands Venetian/Galileo 904

Ivan Seidenberg
Verizon Communications, CEO

In January 2004, Ivan Seidenberg was named Chairman of the Board, adding to his title of CEO, which hes held since 2002. Under his reign, Verizon Communications Inc. has become one of the domineering forces in communication services today. Its easy to see how Verizon owns and operates the most reliable wireless services, annual revenues exceed $71 billion and its scope reaches 28 states.

Verizon continues to raise the bar, recently introducing Iobi Enterprise, a system linking telephony and data communications for on-the-go users, as well as Verizon Yahoo! for DSL, a DSL service offering a variety of broadband speeds and unique Yahoo! services at customer friendly prices.

RE: Jan. 5th = Reported 700w Release
SeldomVisitor @ 12/23/2005 12:02:47 PM # Q
The word "launch" has different meanings depending on who/what is incanting it.

HAND/PalmOne/PALM has the habit - historically unambiguously proven, BTW - of using "launch" to mean:

== "You can call 'us' and get info and maybe place an order even
== but don't expect to have it in your possession anytime soon"

The ORANGE release of one of the prior TREOs was a classic example of this.

This interesting use of the word "launch" has been widely (and often!) discussed. If you're interested in seeing just SOME of the cases, go over to TreoCentral's discussion boards and do an Advanced Search for posts by SeldomVisitor that have the keywords "treo" and "launch" - and maybe even "orange".

RE: Jan. 5th = Reported 700w Release
hkklife @ 12/23/2005 12:04:52 PM # Q
We now have Michael Powell, Carl Yankowski AND Gordon Gekko all as PIC members--who says this isn't a hip, trendy spot!?! ;-)



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

RE: Jan. 5th = Reported 700w Release
michaelcpowell @ 12/23/2005 3:10:29 PM # Q
Unfortunately I am not the Michael Powell who is related to Colin (grin).

RE: Jan. 5th = Reported 700w Release
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 12/23/2005 4:45:36 PM # Q
Michael... I'm your FATHER!





Colin

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

Reply to this comment

Merry Christmas Everyone....

Surur @ 12/24/2005 7:14:10 PM # Q

It just struck 12 here in the UK...

Merry Christmas, and a happy Palm filled New Year... Buy lots of WM Treo's ;)

Surur

RE: Merry Christmas Everyone....
Gekko @ 12/24/2005 9:47:47 PM # Q

YES - A MERRY CHRISTMAS AND HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL!!!

I HOPE THAT 2006 IS A GREAT YEAR FOR ALL OF US!!!



RE: Merry Christmas Everyone....
freakout @ 12/24/2005 10:16:44 PM # Q
I sent you a Garnet one, Surur. It's the greatest gift of all I could give you: enlightenment. :P Merry Christmas.

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)
Happy New Year Everyone
Surur @ 12/31/2005 7:38:10 PM # Q

This is going to be a very interesting new year.

Surur

May you live in interesting
PenguinPowered @ 1/1/2006 3:27:23 AM # Q
Happy New Year

Marty Fouts

I survived PalmSource '05

A new year, and new Treos to come with it :D
freakout @ 1/1/2006 6:25:51 PM # Q
Hopefully, Australia won't have melted into a puddle of sticky goo before it's over. New Year's Day was our hottest day on record since 1939 - 44 degrees! It was punishing. We had a rat trying to flee the burning hot feed shed to get into the house...

Ugh.

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)

Reply to this comment

F Palm & Microsoft

Grendizer @ 12/26/2005 3:54:04 PM # Q
why palm co-rate with microsoft..thats make me angry...

kicko
RE: F Palm & Microsoft
freakout @ 12/26/2005 9:35:00 PM # Q
Microsoft aren't all bad, so long as you ignore the Windows/Office side of things. Take the XBox for instance: a *fantastic* games machine, with a wonderfully progressive and forward-thinking online strategy (Xbox Live is truly awesome...)

Actually, that's about it. Oh, and Windows XP is actually pretty nicely stable nowadays. Safe too, as long you stay far, far away from IE and Outlook and take the proper security precautions.

Apart from that I share your sentiment. Not quite to the same degree though...

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)

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