Comments on: Rumor: Palm Treo 700w to Launch Jan 5th

That's the idea ... when it's considered a rumor. Thanks for doing the digging and putting all the peices in one place Ryan.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

>>$499 for a 240x240 screen in 2006 Palm isn't going to sell too many of these. 320x320, free desktop dvd shrinker, graphic accelerator with 2 free games would sweeten the pot a little bit.

Bet u they do sell many even with 240 x 240. 320 x 320 is non-standard PocketPC. All PPC software to date is 240 x 320 - and increasingly there is support for vga, 480 x 640 (and even without direct support this is backwards compatibility for the obvious reason of being able to do the whole double the x and y pixels thing). 240 x 240 works as there is now native support for this now in the os for exactly this kind of device - a device with a keyboard that replaces tyhe bottom 120 pixels traditionally taken up by the soft input area on PPCs. Further, MS (and HP) have been seeding the dev community for a while now to gain support for the 240 x 240 res as HP (and soon others) are releasing 240 x 240 devices.
I think what you mean is 480 x 480, which works much better as it works with software for 240 x 240 without any messiness that will happen when u attempt to do things like - stretch game graphices to 1.5 x.

Rumor!? Why, yes, it was.

Now I'll wait til PALM says it's gonna be "available" from their web site then check the "expected shipping date".

How about you?

Then we'll find out what "available" really means now.

Yes, I saw that - very strange.

Looking forward to visiting PALM's site tomorrow to see what they say.

"I will say, by the way, that January 5th is well known inside the industry as the worst possible date to launch a new consumer electronics device; especially if it's one that doesn't have a big surprising wow factor associated with it."

All the better! Hopefully this device will fail miserably and convince Palm to stay well, well away from Microsoft. :D

Yes, I'm a bit of a zealot.

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)

TVoR wrote:
Why don't you link...?

So where's yours, since you made the claim? Actually I'd be interested to see a link to any prediction you've made that actually turned out to be right. It's been so long (if it every happened) I'm sure most of us have forgotten.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Beersy, Marty made yet another of his B.S. claims and I called him on it. As usual, he'll run and hide like the piece of **** he is.

Actually I'd be interested to see a link to any prediction you've made that actually turned out to be right.

Prediction: "Marty will fail to produce ANY evidence proving what he said was correct."

Proof: Look for NOTHING coming real soon now in this thread from Marty-dearest.

Prediction: "Beersy will get BIOTCHSLAPPED if he keeps posting more of his useless tripe."

Proof: http://tinyurl.com/a7swm

I rest my case.

Try not to cry too hard, Beersy. Maybe Marty will pop up here like an obediant puppy and console you.

Take care.

TVoR

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Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
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The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

"I like Palm "OS" based products, and as much as I would like to say that all is peachy and rosy, I wanted to start off 2006 with a splash of cold water in the face. Wake up and smell the coffee dear Palm OS developers...

Let's just all go out and buy HP 1950s and be done with it already. I am tired of being treated like a retard by Palm Inc. How about you?"

Nope! Deception makes me feel better. All the way until my clipboard limit and 4K memos are pryed from my cold dead hands and a new Start button is placed in my casket. :-)

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

"Let's just all go out and buy HP 1950s and be done with it already. I am tired of being treated like a retard by Palm Inc. How about you?"

I don't trust Microsoft's software. Haven't since Win98 and IE. And I don't care much for the company either or their ideas. I resent being forced to use them as my desktop OS if I want full compatibility.

In other words, you'll pry my Garnet Treo - which can do anything important that a WinMob device can* - from my cold, dead fingers. :P

*and in some cases betters them (DocsToGo, for instance).

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)

I have tried to respond to you point by point

VampireLestat @ 12/27/2005 4:27:38 PM # said
With 2006 approaching, here are a few long term projections of mine.

My Facts and Questions:

- Palm Inc. is under contract to pay Access for Palm OS 148.5$ million until 2009; thus, Palm OS Garnet/Cobalt will be around til then.

Um, don't think so. In Ryan's post of 5/24/05 announcing the licenseing deal Ryan reported:

"Under the terms of the agreement PalmSource will receive minimum royalty payments of $148.5 million, which includes $65 million for calendar years 2007 to 2009 subject to meeting certain development milestones. "subject to" if that is in the agreement coukd give Palm a big out as far as paying the remaining money. This is especally true if the "development milestones" call for upgrades of Garnet and perhaps ( who knows ) Cobalt. While I suspect they were talking about PalmLinux, we really do not know. Access might be paying Palm to get out of that work that they have no apparent interest in, or Palm might not have to pay anything further to Access after 2006.

- Palm Inc. does not like OS 6.

But what about 6.2? (if its not a dog)

- Palm Inc., especially Colligan is all hot and h****y for WM. Let's recall the shameful Gates + Colligan + Verizon press Treo W conference.

Speculation on Colligan's sexual preferences aside I did not see the press conference as any surrender to WM. I agree they are petting a rattlesnake with M$, but they were marketing a product and whoring is just another way to sell a product.

- Access Co. won a vicious bidding war for PalmSource. Very odd how they wanted it so bad and paid a huge premium. Suspicious...

Never ascribe to malice to what can be explained by stupidity. Also, as many others have posted, this was a way for a Japanese company to get a foothold in China. For the historically impaired, the last time Japan came to China in a big way about 20-30 million Chinese got killed in the process and Japan wore out their welcome for about a 1,000 years or so.

- Palm Inc. owns the FULL rights to the Palm name, therefore Access Co. has to drop all reference to "Palm" in the near future (unless Palm Inc. allows them). So what the hell is Palm OS going to be renamed to?! And would that not be hurtful to the popularity and loyalty of Palm OS?

Again from Ryan:

"Over the next four years, PalmSource will retain rights to use the PalmSource name and certain related Palm trademarks for itself and its licensees. PalmSource will also adopt a new brand identity during this period. "

I do agree, they need to establish and invest in a new name sooner rather than later.

- Palm Inc. does not own the rights to Palm OS Cobalt and Garnet (kernel and API programming). But can Palm Inc. make a brand new in-house Palm OS and sell it as "PALM OS"? Maybe. But is it feasible to do while under contract until 2009?

Sure they can. They own the name. As to the feasibility, see my comments above

- Is Palm Inc. legally allowed to sell a new in-house OS that can fully run all Palm OS applications? If so, can Palm Inc. program a new OS before 2009?

Interesting IP issue. I do not know if an emulator has to be licensed or not. Isuspect its a reverse engeneering issue.

- Will Palm Inc. try to buy out Access Co's Palm OS intellectual material rights once Access Co realizes the mistake they made in buying PalmSource?

Good question. I suspect its all a matter of cost benefit vs. programming from the ground up.

I think Access Co. made a blunder when they bought Palm OS with the knowledge that Palm Inc. owns all the rights to the Palm brand name. Palm Inc. has FULL control of all things designated with the term PALM.

Whats in a name? The value was the IP assets. The wisdom of the purchase will play out when we see what Access does with the assets.

So, Access Co. paid a fortune for what then? A team of PalmSource programmers, 2 kernels and bunch of APIs?

Is it possible that Palm Inc. is not going to wait for Access Co. to realize its error in purchasing PalmSource, and they have already begun programming a new Palm OS with a new Linux kernel?

i expect they already are as a backup if nothing else.

However, if that new Palm OS is not legally allowed to run the current tens of thousands of Palm OS applications, then I suspect Palm Inc. has already internally announced that they have abandonned Palm OS, any Linux version.

I disagee. The dev community would have gotten wind of something that big by now, NDA or no NDA. Also, they have a lot of Linux heads on the payroll for some reason.

I predict that Ed Colligan will use the years 2005 to 2009 to:

a) Migrate handheld consumers to Treos.

No, they have a three headed vision, PDA, smartphone, mobile manager. I suspect they will stay with it as long as its profitable.

b) Continue to sell Palm OS based devices simply because they have no other choice because they are under contract with Access Co. until 2009 and they can't afford to NOT sell Palm OS devices while still paying royalties to Access Co.

Not to mention the radical concept that people are still buying them in droves.

c) Palm Inc. will NOT be developing or launching any new Cobalt or Linux based OS. You will see minor Garnet patches and adjustments just to give the impression of Palm OS innovation. But meanwhile, Palm Inc. will be pushing all its better technology into WM devices.

Where or where did you get this from?

d) Palm Inc. will focus on promoting WM Treos in order to cannabilize its own Palm OS Treo market share.

Verizon might, but the more Treos of all kinds Palm sells, the more leverage it has with M$. The palm OS, be it Garnet, Cobalt or PalmLinux, has to stay viable or Palm has no control over the rattlesnake..er M$.

e) Once the Palm WM Treos have taken root, and that should be around 2008-2009, Ed Colligan will announce:

- Consumers demanded WM.
- The market is dictating the "End of life cycle for Palm OS".
- Palm Inc. will not be renewing its contract with Access Co. and will be selling solely WM based devices.
- Palm Inc. is dedicated to offering special/unique Palm tailored WM based devices to consumers. "We will bring the PALM experience to WM! Woohoo! YeeeaaRRrgghhh!!! (Howard Dean yell from Colligan)".

Palm Inc. will deny any of the above until around 2008. Oh but wait... the 4th item in the list has ALREADY been admitted to... that's right... I stand corrected.

Microsoft wins again. However, this time, not because consumers abandoned the product, but rather because the CEO of Palm Inc. abandoned it.

I do not presume to look that far into the future, but I believe we will have to agree to disagree on this. My crystal ball tells me that its far more likely that Vista and true palm sized computers or mature tablet PCs will end the Palm era. Of course it will end the WM era as well.

I like Palm "OS" based products, and as much as I would like to say that all is peachy and rosy, I wanted to start off 2006 with a splash of cold water in the face. Wake up and smell the coffee dear Palm OS developers...

Let's just all go out and buy HP 1950s and be done with it already. I am tired of being treated like a retard by Palm Inc. How about you?

I have to say that if Apple had had your mindset, it would have closed up shop when Windows 3.1 shipped.

"Many men stumble across the truth, but most manage to pick themselves up
and continue as if nothing had happened."
- Winston Churchill

"Frankengarnet's gotta go!"

Sure does. What would you suggest they replace it with? The only other fully-developed handheld OS on the market is WinMob. And that road leads to the death of Palm. PalmSource appears to have completely given up on Cobalt, so no hope from that corner. (Maybe Marty could shed more light on this?)

It looks like we're stuck for at *least* the next year or two until NetFrontLinux is ready. Whether or not it will be able to rescue Palm is the $324 million dollar question...

In the meantime, Garnet isn't so bad. So you have to cope with a 20second reset process every day or two. Big deal. Apart from "true" multitasking (which Garnet can fake fairly well in most cases anyway), is there anything other devices can do that Garnet can't? Telephony, internet, wi-fi, bluetooth, media playback, GPS... am I missing anything?

3G video calling and so forth might cause problems in the future, but since you can already do stuff like remotely view webcams through apps like Firepad, it doesn't seem to be *that* difficult.

Heck, doll it up with SkinUI or PalmRevolt and you can just pretend you're using a different OS. ;)

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)

Foo,

Excellent point. The only reason I can see for Palm to buy the Garnet OS and license any APIs that future development would need for compatability and "look and feel" would be all the work they have already had to put into Garnet.

"Many men stumble across the truth, but most manage to pick themselves up
and continue as if nothing had happened."
- Winston Churchill

128mb of "real" RAM and a 2gb SD slot makes for a near-perfect platform. Adding a fragile, bulky, SLOW, and big Microdrive just complicates matters. I wouldn't give anything HD-based (iPod etc) a 2nd glance unless it had at LEAST 20gb onboard. I have two SD cards sitting my pocket right now. They are fast, work reliably, and I got 'em for less than $230 shipped online. Why anyone would want to monkey around with a HD of moderate capacity in 2006 is beyond me.

The Treo is already looking ancient, chunky, and decidedly unsvelte against competitors like the Q etc. Adding a hard drive would only exacerbate all of its above flaws.

Envision the LifeDrive but in a slimmer formfactor, 128mb "real" RAM, 1700 mah replacable battery, and 2 SD slots ala Zodiac. All of that could have been possible were it not for the Microdrive onboard (and Palm's continued arrogance/cheapness/stubborness).

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX