Comments on: Handango Releases 2005 Mobile Software Stats

Handango has released their 2005 Year End edition of the Handango Yardstick, a global report on the state of the mobile content industry. The reports include a 2005 Year End edition as well specific reports for each of the five major mobile operating systems: BlackBerry, Palm OS, Symbian OS and Windows Mobile Pocket PC and Smartphone.

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Microsuck paying script kiddies for sudoko clones :)

Dr Opinion @ 2/19/2006 9:47:39 PM #

> "...Windows Mobile Pocket PC had the most new applications across all platforms in 2005 with 3,024..."

My sources indicate that microsuck is literally paying script kiddies to code wince apps, empowering the community with gazillion sudoko clones, photo viewers, and phonebook database applets, all in a desperate attempt to release more apps than for the Palm OS. :)

At this rate, there'll be as many wince applications as Palm OS application in, like, five years or something. Catching up fast! :)

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"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

RE: Microsuck paying script kiddies for sudoko clones :)

Timothy Rapson @ 2/19/2006 10:35:51 PM #

Which reminds me, Dr. you are still looking for those POS apps that match Textmaker, Pocket Artist, and Laridian Bible aren't you? Oh, that's right you too busy pretending that MS isn't cleaning POS's clock in every measurable way.

RE: Microsuck paying script kiddies for sudoko clones :)

Timothy Rapson @ 2/19/2006 10:38:35 PM #

Oops, you were also going to find me software for the POS that matches WinMob versions of Resco Fileviewer and Resco Photoviewer feature for feature. You did go over this Handang report and find those didn't you?
Oh, and native PDFs at full size without paying $70 for DTG Premium. You are looking into all this aren't you, Dr. You promised me that the POSs apps were there, but then kind of dropped it when I mentioned actual programs. But, don't worry. I have faith in you. You are just deep into researching it. I trust the names of those POS powerhouses will be here very soon.

RE: Microsuck paying script kiddies for sudoko clones :)

naio21 @ 2/20/2006 8:26:31 AM #

Skype for PalmOS, anyone? ;-)

Ivan

RE: Microsuck paying script kiddies for sudoko clones :)

Dr Opinion @ 2/20/2006 10:01:10 AM #

> "...You promised me that the POSs apps were there, but then kind of dropped it..."

Do you seriously expect a Palm user to research your favorite quirky wince apps, list the features, and compare with Palm apps?

Duh! :)

If there are some quirky little features that you really need in a photoviewer, bible software, whatever, just list them. There are a gazillion Palm OS vieweres, bibles, etc, so don't worry: the Palm community will be happy to help you find the best Palm apps for you.

You'll find that Palm OS has far superior applications to wince, and the best word and excel compatability in the industry. That's what you get when you have several fantastic office-compatible suites dukeing it out, and no convicted monopolist lurking in the wings to steal other people's ideas for their own crappy version.

Hope this helped! :)

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"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

RE: Microsuck paying script kiddies for sudoko clones :)

amike @ 2/20/2006 12:02:41 PM #

Timothy Rapson : "Oh, and native PDFs at full size without paying $70 for... "

Native PDFs !!! Go here (and stop crying, please) : http://tinyurl.com/8dfgv

RE: Microsuck paying script kiddies for sudoko clones :)

Simony @ 2/20/2006 3:36:46 PM #

I notice that Timothy Rapson (or someone going by that name) is active over at the brighthand.com and pocketpcthoughts.com forums. In the former, almost all of his posts are critical of Palm products in one way or another. I wonder why he spends his time over here at PIC when he has so many other avenues for trashing Palm's reputation?

RE: Microsuck paying script kiddies for sudoko clones :)

Timothy Rapson @ 2/20/2006 4:09:42 PM #

RE: "> "...You promised me that the POSs apps were there, but then kind of dropped it..."

Do you seriously expect a Palm user to research your favorite quirky wince apps, list the features, and compare with Palm apps?"

Exactly the kind of **** and bull nonsense I expected. If you recall, I didn't ask for this list of apps, you volunteered to find them. Months ago. I am still waiting.
Nor am I waiting for some arcane feature here and there. I am waiting for any major app in the POS world to be clearly superior to the PPC equivalent. There are none. Zero.

Thanks for your suggestion, Amike. I already tried it some time ago. It won't install and run on my Zire 72. I tried several times and gave up. I want a real program, not a freeware hack of a Gnu core.

For the rest. I am not whining. I am just stating the facts. I want superior progams closer to the level of desktop ones. There is no comparison so my next PDA is going to be a WinMob with Handango or PalmGear software that does what the POS programs don't.

I wonder how many copies of FITALY (my most used program) Handango sold for the latest Palm, the TX....oh yeah I forgot. Palm mucked with the firmware until this app won't run and I won't run without it. As far as I know, the original FITALY program I had 6 years ago on my old mono Ipaq (the last PPC I had) will still run on the latest WinMob model.
Sorry Doc and fellow lost causes. I'm getting out.

How log before Dr Opinion, Beersy, twrock post lies here?

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 2/19/2006 10:16:25 PM #

The Palm Apologists certainly never let the truth stand in the way of their wacky version of reality. Dr Opinion, Beersy, twrock, Jeff Kirvin, RhinoSteve, Simony... can't wait 'til they all show their bloated mugs here.

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: How log before Dr Opinion, Beersy, twrock post lies here

twrock @ 2/19/2006 10:55:33 PM #

Hey, would you look at that! I finally made TVOR's short-list.

You really need to grow up.

It might not be the "mythical color HandEra", but I'm liking my TX anyway.

RE: How log before Dr Opinion, Beersy, twrock post lies here?

Simony @ 2/20/2006 12:32:15 AM #

I'm here too.

RE: How log before Dr Opinion, Beersy, twrock post lies here

Dr Opinion @ 2/20/2006 10:52:53 AM #

> "...How log before Dr Opinion, Beersy, twrock post lies here?..."

Voice-of-Dumbness is NOT a moron. :)

(And that's a lie.)

:)

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"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

Which platform is selling the most units?

Nycran @ 2/20/2006 5:46:02 AM #

Is it my imagination or does the report say nothing about which platform is selling the most software units? I want raw unit sales, broken down by category with Palm OS, Windows Mobile and Symbian in columns.

Can anyone point me to statistics like this?

RE: Which platform is selling the most units?

Foo Fighter @ 2/20/2006 10:45:54 AM #

This report doesn't track unit sales. However, based on other market studies from sources such as IDC, NPD, and Canalys, Windows Mobile devices outsell Palm OS by a pretty wide margin, depending on which categories are being accounted.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com

RE: Which platform is selling the most units?

Dr Opinion @ 2/20/2006 10:54:46 AM #

> "...Windows Mobile devices outsell Palm OS by a pretty wide margin, depending on which categories are being accounted..."

Presumably one of those categories wouldn't be "smartphone", the only handheld category that matters, that's growing, and the one where Palm OS has, like, 90% market share.

Duh. :)

------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

RE: Which platform is selling the most units?

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 2/20/2006 11:52:01 AM #

"smartphone", the only handheld category that matters, that's growing, and the one where Palm OS has, like, 90% market share.

Kirvin, why do you keep telling such ridiculous LIES here? By constantly telling major WHOPPERS as you try to defend the PalmOS platform, you end up making the platform look bad. Or is that really your hidden agenda?

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Which platform is selling the most units?

Foo Fighter @ 2/20/2006 1:52:37 PM #

> "Presumably one of those categories wouldn't be "smartphone", the only handheld category that matters, that's growing, and the one where Palm OS has, like, 90% market share."

Actually, Windows Mobile outsells Treo too. So Palm doesn't lead in the Smartphone category either. In fact, I believe Palm comes in third, with Blackberry leading that market. But the cumulative numbers from Windows Mobile Smartphones and Pocket PC phones outnumbers Treo.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com

RE: Which platform is selling the most units?

Foo Fighter @ 2/20/2006 1:55:03 PM #

Speaking of which...where in God's name did you ever get it your head Palm owns 90% of the smartphone market? I'm sure the folks at RIM would be stunned to know they somehow own less than 10% of the market, when they're outselling Palm.

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Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com

RE: Which platform is selling the most units?

freakout @ 2/20/2006 4:53:41 PM #

"Actually, Windows Mobile outsells Treo too..."

Are you talking the entire WinMob platform VS. *one* PalmOS device? Is there a single WinMob device that outsells the Treo?

(No hostility here, I'm just curious!)

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)

RE: Which platform is selling the most units?

Timothy Rapson @ 2/20/2006 5:19:45 PM #

I'm pretty sure that POS did have 90% of the US market recently. But, in the Doc Oc universe recently means Handspring 300 or maybe it was the recent Handspring Neo with the Springboard cell phone card. That must be when they had that 90%. See, Doc didn't doctor the facts just to suit his own version of reality. It is our fault that we don't live in that time long ago and universe far away in the head of Dr. Demento and the 1,000,000 clones.

RE: Which platform is selling the most units?

Simony @ 2/20/2006 5:45:06 PM #

Thank you for your balanced and well reasoned contribution. I'm sure this kind of post will go down very well with all your pals over at pockepcthoughts.com.

RE: Which platform is selling the most units?

Foo Fighter @ 2/20/2006 5:50:18 PM #

> "Are you talking the entire WinMob platform VS. *one* PalmOS device?"

I'm talking all Windows Mobile powered smartphones (including the Pocket PC phone edition models) compared with Palm. There are no other PalmOS smartphones aside from Palm's Treo line. The QOOL phone apparently isn't avialable yet.

> "Is there a single WinMob device that outsells the Treo?"

Not that I'm aware of. The Treo line is more popular than any single Windows Mobile smartphone. However, now that Palm is adopting Windows Mobile that's going to be much harder to keep track of. Don't forget RIM. Given its market share, I'm fairly certain it outshines the Treo.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com

RE: Which platform is selling the most units?

Surur @ 2/20/2006 6:04:51 PM #

The HTC Magician ( http://msmobiles.com/news.php/3649.html ) sold really well, and has spawned the HTC Prophet ( http://msmobiles.com/news.php/4855.html ), which is also likely to sell well. The HTC Wizard ( http://msmobiles.com/news.php/4889.html )and HTC Apache (http://www.pocketfactory.com/archives/2005/09/spring_ppc6700.php#comments ), which are now selling all over the world, including the USA, are also cousins, differing mainly in offering the slideout keyboard.

Together, I would not be surprised if they outsell the Treo 600/650 series. Once the Treo series differentiate more its quite likely that individually most separate models would not exceed the Treo 650 sales figures.

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...

RE: Which platform is selling the most units?

Foo Fighter @ 2/20/2006 6:13:52 PM #

> "I'm pretty sure that POS did have 90% of the US market recently."

Not likely. RIM is number one. It isn't numerically possible for Palm to have 90% of the Smartphone market with RIM being market leader. Unless you're looking at some study which doesn't count Blackberries...in which case it's worthless.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com

RE: Which platform is selling the most units?

AdamaDBrown @ 2/20/2006 6:57:49 PM #

Don't forget RIM. Given its market share, I'm fairly certain it outshines the Treo.

In 2005, the Treos sold about 2 million units, and RIM sold about 3.5 million (give or take). Just FYI.

RE: Which platform is selling the most units?

ReadOnly @ 2/21/2006 12:17:16 PM #

"Lies. D**n Lies. And Statistics."

It could well be that you are ALL right.
And you are ALL wrong.

Heavy-weight market analysis companies that Wall Street looks to can't even agree on how to catergorize PDA's and smart phones.

RIM has hardware that has voice capabilities, and hardware that doesn't (focusing on text/email).

Palm(one) has hardware in both PDA's and phones.

Many reports have a very narrow focus, other very wide.
What geographical regions do the numbers cover?
What time frame was used? This year? Well, 2006 just started... so everything would be skewed by the most recent and the most popular production units.

Some folks would rather talk about how much money was made - I think I saw recently that some category or other of MS's effort in mobile phones made money for the first time in 2005! Not that MS's is Worried about Money from this market yet...

NO ONE can compare numbers until all the numbers are generated under the same set of rules.
Period.

@Foo Fighter -
There were Palm OS smart phones that founded the concept - like the Qualcomm "Brick" phone, and the follow-on models from Kyocera. Samsung also entered the market with a Palm OS base unit. To claim that "There are no other PalmOS smartphones aside from Palm's Treo line" is wildly inaccurate. More like "There aren't any Palm OS phones currently in production other than those from Palm".

Accuracy in language is very important.
Otherwise it digresses into meaningless bar room boasting and water cooler gossip.

RE: Which platform is selling the most units?

Timothy Rapson @ 2/21/2006 1:37:12 PM #

RE: "@Foo Fighter -
There were Palm OS smart phones that founded the concept - like the Qualcomm "Brick" phone, and the follow-on models from Kyocera. Samsung also entered the market with a Palm OS base unit. To claim that "There are no other PalmOS smartphones aside from Palm's Treo line" is wildly inaccurate. More like "There aren't any Palm OS phones currently in production other than those from Palm".

Accuracy in language is very important.
Otherwise it digresses into meaningless bar room boasting and water cooler gossip."

Yes, words mean things, IN CONTEXT.
We are discussing sales of current software and the current phones offered, not ancient Kyoceras. Foo's comment says plainly "are" not were, not formerly in production and still sitting on a shelf somewhere with dead bateries or with one or two in a thousand still in use. The Kyocera yoiu mention has about as much relavance to the discussion as the first mobile phone I ever saw. It was 1974 and the lawyer's trunk was full of batteries and transformers to get the phone to work....of course only so long as he was in his car near enough the center of Chicago.

RE: Which platform is selling the most units?

hkklife @ 2/21/2006 2:30:01 PM #

LOL! ReadOnly, this is just the PIC front page and not a court room!

I can assure you that Kent/Foo KNOWS his stuff very well and, more so than nearly anyone else, is up-to-date on what is out there in the marketplace.

You don't have to worry about Foo confusing a four year old Kyocera brick for the latest in smartphone tech.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

RE: Which platform is selling the most units?

freakout @ 2/21/2006 8:47:55 PM #

"In 2005, the Treos sold about 2 million units, and RIM sold about 3.5 million (give or take). Just FYI."

Given the extent of the Crackberry addiction (and mindshare), for Treos to manage over half of RIM's sales is quite a good performance.

It'll be interesting to compare sales numbers of the 700w with those of the 700p, once it arrives. And the sales figures for the 700 models versus the 6xx series; will the Treo craze die off, carry on or shoot through the roof like Sagio think?

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)

Gartner sez Yes to WM, no to Java and POS

Surur @ 2/21/2006 2:57:54 PM #

Microsoft's improved Windows Mobile 5.0 will boost applications choice for users
by Will Hadfield
Tuesday 21 February 2006
The availability of Microsoft's push e-mail service last week is the company's latest move to establish Windows Mobile 5.0 as the platform of choice for mobile users.
Interest in Windows Mobile 5.0 has grown steadily, and it now attracts far more developers than any rival mobile operating system. This should improve the likelihood of IT directors being able to buy line-of-business mobile applications for the Microsoft platform. More than 10,000 developers are currently working on applications for Windows Mobile 5.0.
Part of the reason for this developer momentum is Microsoft's programming model. Nick Jones, vice-president at analyst firm Gartner, said, "Every device using Windows Mobile 5.0 has the same interfaces, but that is absolutely not the case with other operating systems, such as Symbian."
According to Microsoft, companies that develop for Windows Mobile will be able to use the same skills they already have for desktop Windows development. Staff with Visual Studio and .net Framework languages, such as C# and Visual Basic, can develop for Windows Mobile.
The launch of Microsoft's .net Compact Framework 2.0 last autumn gave Windows Mobile developers improved managed code application programming interfaces (APIs) to simplify mobile development projects, plus a number of new APIs for Windows Mobile.
Future releases of Windows Mobile are expected to appear annually, with patches and upgrades issued more frequently. Microsoft is committed to ensuring that 95% of applications have backward compatibility on its platform.
Jones said, "One of the great strengths of Windows Mobile is that it has a single owner in Microsoft. Therefore it is a relatively consistent platform, even when devices are produced by different manufacturers. Although it is being forced to support greater diversity of devices, we expect Mobile to remain far more consistent and backward compatible than the Java operating system."
Combined with the Microsoft .net Compact Framework, Gartner believes Windows Mobile 5.0 delivers a platform that offers rich features and good consistency between manufacturers and releases, so is well suited to corporate needs.
The alternative programming environment for mobile applications is Java 2 Platform Micro Edition (J2ME). Gartner has warned enterprise users that J2ME is functionally far weaker than a Windows Mobile platform. This is because it has a big consumer focus, which means it is missing many enterprise features, such as a file system, an embedded database, management and security services, and middleware functions. Also, Gartner pointed out that J2ME, by design, does not support access to device-specific hardware features.
The second drawback is that J2ME is a client-side platform, so it must be combined with server-side products, which may be proprietary. Gartner said users may need to buy server-side products from companies such as IBM or Oracle to provide a more complete enterprise platform.
One of the main alternatives to Windows Mobile 5.0 is Blackberry from Research in Motion, which is based on Java. But the device and the version of Java it runs is severely limited, says Gartner.
Jones said, "RIM is a Java machine, so you can develop J2ME applications for RIM, but it's the brain-damaged version of Java. Also, the RIM device itself is an exceptionally limited piece of hardware."
Companies can now buy devices from Motorola and Nokia that run RIM's operating system on faster processors. Application development for RIM was held up because most of its devices had black and white screens.
The arrival of new Blackberry devices with colour screens and third-party devices with RIM's operating system - Blackberry Connect - increase the potential market for application developers.
RIM organised the first formal meeting of its developer organisation, the Alliance Partner Programme, this month. A total of 274 organisations have joined the programme.
RIM's commercial relations director, Lee Underwood, said, "The kinds of area where we have seen quite a bit of deployment are time and billing in the legal market, data streaming in the financial services market and sales force solutions, such as customer relationship management."
Gartner rates Symbian as the third most important mobile operating system. In a recent Gartner survey, 33% of IT managers and CIOs thought the system was important to their companies' mobile strategies.
Although Symbian is shipped in more mobile phones than any other operating system, most are bought by consumers rather than companies. Symbian lacks a common interface across all devices using the operating system.
The closest Symbian has to a single owner is Nokia. The world's largest handset manufacturer is encouraging application developers to work on Symbian by standardising its handsets using the operating system. Nokia's Series 60 devices use the same implementation of Symbian. More than 25 million Series 60 devices were sold last year.
A developer club called Forum Nokia has been set up to encourage application development on Series 60 devices. More than 400 businesses belong to the club. Some 37% of them are developing corporate applications and 31% are working on personal productivity applications, including e-mail and personal information management.
Some of the businesses developing applications for corporate users pay Nokia for additional support.
Nokia's senior marketing manager for Series 60, Dan Shugrue, said, "They get early access to devices. They get roadmaps for the platform itself. The developers also get marketing initiatives and they might want access to an operator."
Unlike Microsoft and RIM, Nokia has only just launched devices that can be managed remotely by a user's IT department. The manufacturer's E Series of devices will be the first that can be wiped remotely. They will be released to the whole market at the end of March.
While users have the choice between J2ME and Windows Mobile 5.0, there is some degree of cross-platform development. According to Gartner, tools such as AppForge Crossfire allow corporate .net developers to target Symbian platforms, and third-party virtual machines will allow Java developers to target Microsoft platforms.
Windows Mobile v Java 2 Micro Edition
Consider Windows Mobile if:

You already have Windows API or .net skills

You want to use Visual Studio and develop in Visual Basic or C#

You are creating a complex (perhaps thick-client) application that will run only on a Windows Mobile handset or PDA

Your application needs an embedded small footprint SQL database

You need access to operating system services, hardware or peripheral drivers

Rapid application development is important

You want round-trip integration with PC data, and applications such as Microsoft Word or Microsoft Excel

You need a wide portfolio of device form factors, such as "ruggedised" PDA, executive PDA and smartphone, with a single, consistent operating platform

Consider Java 2 Micro Edition if:

You already have Java skills or tools such as Eclipse

You are developing simple applications for the broadest possible range of handsets and are prepared to sacrifice corporate features for market size

You are developing a complex PDA application but need to maximise platform portability - by extending to Linux, for example

You need a better user interface than can be achieved with a thin-client browser application, but want to maximise the range of potential client devices

You do not need direct access to operating system services, hardware features or device drivers

The target device gives you no choice, for example when it is a Java-only handset

You are developing consumer-facing "infotainment" applications

Source: Gartner
What happened to the Palm OS?
The Palm operating system had the largest share of the corporate market in the 1990s, but now Microsoft and RIM are the main options users have. Palm was rated the least important operating system to enterprise users in the Gartner survey of IT managers. It came behind mobile Linux.
Nick Jones, vice-president at analyst firm Gartner, said, "The operating system is very dated and the replacement to the Palm OS is still up in the air. It's a much less sophisticated and mature operating system than its rivals."
The Palm operating system was replaced with Windows Mobile 5.0 on Palm's own smartphone brand, Treo, last month.

http://tinyurl.com/ru5p9

Yes, I know, Gartner is biased towards MS, etc etc, but business listen to them. With the availability of multiple devices from major carriers in USA and push email included, I think MS WM US penetration is just about to start.

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...

RE: Gartner sez Yes to WM, no to Java and POS

Foo Fighter @ 2/21/2006 4:09:07 PM #

PalmOS dropped from Microsoft's radar long ago. They're not even targeting this platform anymore. It's RIM that Redmond is after now...and Nokia, to a lesser extent.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com

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