Comments on: Palm Rumors Exposed!

Editor's Note: The following article is a new section we have created to allow us to pass along the rumors that we hear about developments in the Palm Community. Please keep in mind that these are all rumors. That means that many of them will turn out to be half right, or mistaken, or the products of someone's fevered imagination. Please use at your own risk. On the rumor board for this week is: What happened to the OS 3.5 upgrade?, Details leaked about OS 4?, and everyone's favorite rumor the Apple PDA.

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Palm Fatal Error

mikecane@wildmail @ 5/10/2000 10:03:50 AM #

Palm's most serious error will be seen, in the future, as not snapping up the Calligrapher HWR enigine which was the heart of the Newton and then ported to WinCE. Micro$oft now owns it lock stock and barrel and has named it "Microsoft Transcriber." Without this, we Palmists are condemned to a future of Grafitti. Even with ARM chips! (Jot rots!) mc

RE: Palm Fatal Error

Michael Portuesi @ 5/10/2000 12:36:13 PM #

As a former Newton owner, of both a 100 (early model) and a 2000 (late model),
I can tell you that Calligrapher's handwriting recognizer was so-so at best. It
got better with subsequent updates to the OS, but it still wasn't as good as the
printed recognizer that Apple itself developed for Newton OS 2.0.

Apple's recognizer was much better than Calligrapher, and didn't require "training" in
order to be useful out of the box. In fact, I could enter text faster, and with fewer
errors, than I currently do with Grafitti on the Palm. Apple owns that technology
and they could easily cross-license it to Palm for use on their OS.

One advantage of Grafitti is that it requires a lot less CPU than "real" HWR
engines like Calligrapher and Apple's recognizer. Basically, the Palm's Dragonball
processor doesn't really have the resources to do real HWR well. With Palm
moving to the StrongARM family, real HWR on the Palm will finally be feasible.

RE: Palm Fatal Error

I AM COOL @ 5/10/2000 1:34:07 PM #

Just testing ... thank you...

RE: Palm Fatal Error

mikecane@wildmail.com @ 5/11/2000 10:25:17 AM #

Hello? Reality Check! The people who developed Calligrapher were the ones who did Newt 2.0's HWR! Calligrapher was the ongoing upgrade of it! "Training"? You must be thinking of Jot! mc

RE: Palm Fatal Error

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/4/2000 5:20:00 PM #

Hey Mike Cane, you are a moron. Calligrapher for Windows CE bears no relation whatsoever to the product of an identical name developed by Apple. They were two completely different technologies. You also are making me point out that the Newton 2.0 and higher platform was the only one that ever had the real Calligrapher with very accurate, real-time handwriting recognition. Please get your fact stratight before you go mouthing off about how you know so much. (p.s.- newton's did have 'training' for thier recognition, I have a Newton so I should know)

RE: Palm Fatal Error

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/4/2000 5:27:01 PM #

One more thing, Microsoft does not own Apple's Handwriting recognition software, Apple does and in fact is still developing it.

RE: Now heres an idea.....

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/25/2000 2:54:30 PM #

i recently bought a stowaway keybord for about £70 and i can totch type so mutch faster in to my visor than caligraphy windows trancscribe or grfiti so THATs the best way to enter text into a palm (oh and it only take me 10 seconds to set up so no lost time there!)

Paying for upgrades!

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2000 10:32:10 AM #

I'm not impressed by this rumor. One of the reasons I bouqht a palm was because of the free upgrades for the OS.

If this does go ahead then I don't see any reason to buy a palm as apposed to a Visor. At least with the Visor I can get modules for it & I don't have to worry about upgrades.

And one more thinq! What happens to us 'Dragonball Chip' users when the new OSes will be made for the ARM processors?

Thats my moaning done.

RE: Paying for upgrades!

Brandy @ 5/10/2000 2:43:59 PM #

I really think this rumor is just that, a rumor. It goes against what Palm appears
to be trying to accomplish. In order for them to truly charge for upgrades, they would
have to ensure that all other PalmOS licensees (IBM, Handspring, Symbol) would also
charge for upgrades. For example, IBM sells an OEM version of the Palms. If you REALLY
wanted an upgrade, you might be able to d/l from IBM...

I think it's bunk. The reason most of us out here pay more for the flashable Palms is to
FLASH them! Palm knows this and markets the higher priced units. On top of this, isn't
OS 3.5 supposed to make the OS standard across the varied platforms? Can anyone other
than MS sell a standard?

Paying for upgrades!

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2000 6:29:59 PM #

A. it is not a rumour. i have verified this fact too. it is going to happen and soon.
B. you will still be able to flash your OS on your palm, you will just have to pay for the download of the file.
C. Do you really think that Palm would make this change and let IBM give the OS away? get a brain dude. they would either give them an OS that was a generation behind, or not let them do upgrades.

Think dude, think!!!

RE: FREE UPGRADE TO OS 3.5 for PALM III SERIES USERS

PalmWarez @ 5/11/2000 3:42:02 AM #

Stop begging for a free upgrade and do it yourself. So you have a Palm III series and want OS 3.5? Easy! Go to a store with a lax return policy (ie. Staples, Office Depot) Buy a Palm IIIxe, gut it and put your old Palm III series innards in the black Palm IIIxe case and return the sucker. Yes, this is highly...unorthdox...to say the least. And you get 8mb. The only loss (disregarding the place of purchase) is the quite nice black shell the IIIxe comes in. However, having a translucent case, it matters not to me.

The possiblities are endless. Buy a Palm IIIxe and IIIe. Switch guts, and return the IIIxe with the transplanted IIIe innards... believe me, as an employee at there, I'm not the first...

RE: Paying for upgrades!

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2000 2:24:10 PM #

What a lowdown creep you are! A thieving, lying, creep.

RE: Paying for upgrades!

DW @ 8/13/2000 5:49:08 PM #

. . . . but thanks for the advice.

RE: Paying for upgrades!

Raishe_werk @ 8/25/2000 5:02:17 PM #

now if palmwarez could do that to palm V. ...
hmm.. i have nothing to do this weekend. free up grades for all!!
have you seen ardiri?... he stole a small german military officer (with the liberty crack) from us.. and we would like him back

"Love the Munkey"

-Raishe
"Moster Pig kills Jesus
More at 11"

PalmOS 3.5 Memory Leak

A. Student @ 5/10/2000 11:15:54 AM #

I've heard rumors of a memory leak in PalmOS 3.5, and I think they're true.

Description:
Upon a reset (soft), the file "System" grows by a couple K. Only a hard reset will shrink the size of this file (note: I haven't tested this yet, although it seems obvious).

This leak is probably why the update hasn't been released yet.

I've got a IIIxe in my pocket, (running 3.5), and I've personally seen the above problems with the "System" file. I sure hope they come out with a fix soon...If they charge for it, I'm returning my Palm and getting a Visor.

RE: PalmOS 3.5 Memory Leak

Ian Gillman @ 5/10/2000 1:45:03 PM #

I would expect them to distribute a patch (3.5.X)
for free and charge for a full upgrade (3.X).
They do have to make money after all and I cannot
fault them for doing that. We can always tell
them we do not like it and vote with our wallets
by not buying a Palm next time.

If they charge for the patches then I will
definitely get a visor.

RE: PalmOS 3.5 Memory Leak

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2000 3:56:55 PM #

Hi. While I can't speak for all of Palm, I do know that there is in fact a set of problems with memory leaks with OS 3.5. I'm currently beta-testing TRG's AutoCF (which allows you to access docs and programs directly from the CF card without moving them to RAM first) and OS 3.5, and the developers are in fact trying to work out the memory leak problems. They (wisely) won't release it until the problems are fixed, and they can't be sure they're fixed until the versions are tested extensively. Just my $.02.

RE: PalmOS 3.5 Memory Leak

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2000 6:43:02 PM #

I have a Palm v that i downloaded the D4 beta for the 3.5 OS on. i have not experienced any leak at all and i am checking it often. do you all have the latest version of the OS beta? just a thought. i will let you know if this changes for me.

IIIx with OS 3.5

Calloway @ 5/11/2000 2:07:43 PM #

I have a similar problem with my Palm; see my post below. And I have the D4 version of the 3.5 OS. Maybe it's a III series thing?

some rough calculations

Calloway @ 5/11/2000 2:23:02 PM #

I took my Palm and added what should be tabulated in "System", and it appears that the "System" that appears in Info is ~25K larger than it should be. I used Z'Catalog to find the exact KB of each of the files in "System". So it seems like the missing KB is not due to some ballooning file but rather some fragmentation (or some hidden ballooning file).

And I tested this on my emulator to simulate a "virgin" Palm IIIx. Same problem. Obviously, since the EZ ROM goes into the IIIx, IIIxe, V, and Vx, this problem should appear on all of them. In fact, the emulator indicates that the Palm IIIc will also have this problem.

Not just OS 3.5?

Calloway @ 5/13/2000 5:00:42 AM #

It seems that this "memory leak" observed in System is not strictly an OS 3.5 issue. I took my friend's IIIx (with OS 3.3) and reset it, and found that System grew, just as on my IIIx (with OS 3.5).

RE: PalmOS 3.5 Memory Leak

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/13/2000 6:09:55 AM #

The memory leak for OS3.5 in the IIIxe is a FACT.
It has been discussed on usenet groups. One person mentioned a program called "Victor", which
is unsupported, but does reclaim "orphaned" memory. I tried it. To my surprise, there was
177kb "leaked"! Victor reclaimed it, no problem.
http://www.djw.org/product/palm/victor/index.html

" CLASS=NEWS>http://www.djw.org/product/palm/victor/index.html

Who cares

renaissance59 @ 5/10/2000 12:11:26 PM #

All these - 'how dare they' comments and 'what happens to dragonball Palm owners?'. Would you be happier if Palm stopped development - that way you'd always have the latest version (!?)

Things move on, and its out of our direct control. Its always been this way - know one worries about DOS users who can't upgrade to Windowss. Personally at the moment my Palm is brilliant (it contains half my brain) - I don't have the need to upgrade, and before more info on OS4 comes out I'm not concerned. I'll decide later if it warrants me spending more money on a new Palm device. I fully understand that when I spend £200 on a PDA that is based on the same processor as a washing machine, then I'll have to upgrade device if I want to play MP3's or video link with my mates.

Palm's will be commodity items (Handspring is trying to prove this) at least the older verisons. We will always be put in a position of throw out the old and bring in the new.

Regards
James

RE: Who cares

I.M. Anonymous @ 10/19/2000 7:43:30 PM #

I think that this man who wrote this is absolutley right...who the fuckcares. And if you do ...well...fuck you!!!!!!!!!!!

OS 3.5

Calloway @ 5/10/2000 1:41:56 PM #

Hmm, I wish these rumors of a memory leak had been brought up earlier. I just flashed my IIIx to OS 3.5 the other day, and now I'm thinking that was a bad idea. Like someone said earlier, "System" increases by ~1k on every soft reset. I'm trying to track down where and why.

And here I figured there was no updater because everyone who wanted to would find out how to do it...

RE: OS 3.5

BobVBH @ 5/10/2000 8:59:45 PM #

How was it possible to "flash" and upgrade to 3.5?

RE: OS 3.5

Bob @ 5/11/2000 2:11:12 AM #

Where did you get OS 3.5 when it isn't even released as an upgrade yet?

RE: OS 3.5

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2000 11:07:30 AM #

The first step is www.BigRedH.com...

Upgrading to OS 3.5

Calloway @ 5/11/2000 1:59:28 PM #

In light of what has been said, you may not want to go through with this, but here is the procedure anyway. First get the latest ROM image appropriate for your device. In my case, for a IIIx, I got the non-debug EZ 3.5 rom. Then use the OS 3.3 updater. You want to make sure all your stuff is backed up (I did this by going past that step in the updater, and stopping before it sticks 3.3 on the Palm). Then, start the updater over. There should be an "Advanced" button. That will allow you to flash any ROM image you want into your Palm.

Addendum

Calloway @ 5/11/2000 2:03:36 PM #

I suggest getting the ROM image from somewhere "safe", like directly from Palm (if you are registered as a developer).

RE: OS 3.5

Khal @ 5/11/2000 8:40:30 PM #

Calloway,

I tried this however after choosing my ROM PalmOS330_ENG_PalmV.exe for the Palm Vx, I got an eror message which reads:

"Encountered an error preparing to flash the handheld - couldn't attach to the handheld. Time out error"

Any suggestions?

RE: OS 3.5

Calloway @ 5/13/2000 4:33:29 AM #

Hmm, I'm not sure what your error seems to indicate... I presume you were using the "Advanced" option and your Palm was in the debug mode as required...

However, what you are citing as your ROM file doesn't make sense. The file name seems to be that of your update installer executable, which is not the same as a ROM image. ROM images have the extension .rom, and in my case, is called palmos35-dr4-en-ez.rom

The error message doesn't seem to indicate an improper image file, so I'm a little confused. But first try getting a proper ROM image, and see if that's your problem. ROM images can be found in various places (see other posts for some ideas)

RE: OS 3.5

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/14/2000 2:36:05 AM #

Calloway,

Sorry about the mix up. Yes I am in the advanced mode, and the rom file i am trying to load is the palmos35-dr4-en-ez.rom. I have down loaded two separate times from palm to see if there was corruption in the download. Thanks for your help.

Oh, the palm is set in Debug Mode before i select the option to flash the rom.

Thanks, as always,

Khal

RE: OS 3.5

Calloway @ 5/15/2000 7:12:02 PM #

Khal,
Um, hmm. And it still won't work? What OS are you currently on? Actually, what matters is were you able to update to OS 3.3? My friend had a IIIx which refused to update to OS 3.3, so Palm sent him a replacement...
My last guess is that I used the Upgrade Utility's backup method (rather than manually setting backup bits or Backup Buddy or whatever, see my first reply to this post for what I mean). And I believe that that method installs a program called FlashPrep which is supposedly used in the flashing process. That could very well be your problem.

RE: OS 3.5

I.M. Anonymous @ 2/6/2001 12:24:53 PM #

I found the same timeout error upgrading to OS3.3.

Did you also use Chapura.PocketMirror? I wonder if that is affecting the upgrade.

Jim

RE: OS 3.5

joelmw @ 2/8/2001 5:23:31 PM #

I am currently having the same problem installing the 3.3 upgrade to a Palm III with a TRG SuperPilot Memory Board II XL. The same Palm (though, obviously, with a different memory board) upgraded fine before. Does anyone know what's the deal?

Half fair to charge

Justin Ng @ 5/10/2000 3:52:46 PM #

Major OS upgrades they should be able to charge for, but minor OS patches should be free.

Even Monopolistic Microsoft gives everyone free OS patches and updates at windowsupdate. I don't see why Palm would or should invent practices worse than MS.

Justin Ng

IF they are going to charge ...

Just another Palm Developer @ 5/10/2000 8:04:48 PM #

then By Golly, They HAD BETTER use the money to commit to fixing the BUGS.

For instance: There have been several revisions that create spurious low battery readings, causing alarms to not sound due battery saving actions - a reasonable action IFF the battery is low.

If they are going to position themselves in the market primarily as the owners of the Palm OS, then they had better be getting ALL the bugs fixed. And none of this "we'll come out with a new version to fix some bugs, and add a bunch more via new features" that is all to common in PC software.

FREE UPGRADE TO OS 3.5 for PALM III SERIES USERS!

PalmWarez @ 5/11/2000 3:43:10 AM #

The possiblities are endless. Buy a Palm IIIxe and IIIe. Switch guts, and return the IIIxe with the transplanted IIIe innards... believe me, as an employee at there, I'm not the first...

RE: IF they are going to charge ...

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2000 5:25:24 PM #

HAHAHAHA! You bastard! Heehee..too bad I have a V.

What about that 3COM thing

KlausM @ 5/11/2000 8:28:29 AM #

What about that device it was talked about in an interview with a 3COM manager and which should be presented in the mid of the year? Is it a kind of wireless webpad, like the technology study/product of National/Cyrix/Qubit et al. or like the "hyper viper" of the german company Höft und Wessel AG ( http://www.hoeft-wessel.de/Hyper_news.htm" CLASS=NEWS>http://www.hoeft-wessel.de/Hyper_news.htm )?

Do you really need 3.5?

Doug Gordon @ 5/11/2000 9:56:10 AM #

I'm not sure why everyone always wants to jump on the latest release. As a developer, I've been using the 3.5 ROM image for quite a while, but if you don't have a IIIc there's not much else feature-wise that most people will need. Yes, they made some improvements to the built-in apps, but once you try DateBk4 you will never look at the built-in datebook again anyway. Other than for color support, OS 3.5 is not any kind of major upgrade. In fact, if anything, some operations are a bit slower.

Goodbye Dragonball and Charging for Upgrade

Fred @ 5/11/2000 1:15:54 PM #

Right now Palm has a LOT of loyal and happy users, and
a large community just for the Palm PDA. Bye dumping the Dragonball processor and making all current Palms
obsolete...and to start charging for upgrades. Well,
I hope Palm realizes that the current "community" will become hostile towards the greedy 3Comm attitude, and Palm will start to feel the pinch of backlash and then
of competition, and hopefully, the decline of market share and profits. The 3Comm attitute may well yet
help the Pocket PC to be a success.

RE: Goodbye Dragonball and Charging for Upgrade

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/11/2001 11:34:47 AM #

Hmmm.... PocketPC... OS done by MS. MS does Windows which has version changes and charges for it. Read the writing on the wall... there will be charges for version changes in the future on all units. If you have share holders you will charge and show a profit. No one but a very few will jump ship as truely how many will upgrade to the new OS unless they actually need it and will spend money for the latest.

RE: Goodbye Dragonball and Charging for Upgrade

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/23/2001 4:53:34 PM #

Do you complain when Intel releases faster processors too?

Excerpt of email sent to developers

Calloway @ 5/11/2000 2:04:53 PM #

> 7. TRGpro(TM) is Palm OS 3.5 Compliant
>
>The TRGpro has been certified as Palm OS 3.5 compliant. TRGpro units
>will begin shipping with Palm OS 3.5 in the coming weeks.
>If you have any further questions please contact devsupport@trgpro.com.

Interesting...

Re: OS 3.5

V0iD @ 5/12/2000 8:18:25 AM #

Palm OS 3.5 is available at:
1. Palm website for registred developers
2. Numerous "warez" sites for palm

Do some searching and you'll find it.

Anybody know of a HotSync problem with OS3.5

Kimo Bonnelycke @ 5/12/2000 11:15:42 PM #

I have gone through 5 Palm IIIxe replacements (finally got one where the screen does not have a grit feeling), and all of them have had no prolems HotSync at 115K. When I push the HotSync button, everything worked great, but on my newest replacement it seems to take forever to identify the user. If I lower the connection speed to 56k then everything works great. Is this a known problem?

Thanks,

Kimo Bonnelycke

RE: Anybody know of a HotSync problem with OS3.5

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/13/2000 6:19:16 AM #

You probably have a borderline Hotsync Cradle.
When I had problems that were similar, Palm wanted
to send me a new cradle for my new IIIxe. I said,
"no thanks, that would put me beyond the 14 day return period. I bought it NOW, gave them the money NOW, so I want a working Palm NOW".

Not just 3.3

el Nea @ 5/15/2000 5:15:11 AM #

yes my PalmV with OS 3.3, also suffers from "memory leak" it grows 1K on every soft reset.

Visor version of Palm OS in a Palm?

Todd @ 5/17/2000 1:38:11 PM #

Is it possible to use the Visor's copy of PalmOS in a Palm device?

RE: Visor version of Palm OS in a Palm?

I.M. Anonymous @ 12/4/2000 9:20:14 AM #

Why would you want to?

I don't think you could anyway seeing that the Visor version is slightly modified. Something to do with the hardware difference, I think.

memory leak

el Nea @ 5/18/2000 2:24:12 PM #

to all of you, who are worried about that 1k missing on every soft reset. There is a freeware app. from Pimlico Soft. called "dbscan" which fix this.

OS updates must be FREE!

crapattack @ 8/7/2000 11:37:21 AM #

If a company charges it's customers for any kind of updates (excluding complete OS upgrades like to OS 4), the company is making a big mistake. OS updates are corrections made by the company and its developers for the original release of software. To charge for fixes and small changes that could/should have been in the original release of an OS would make a company implausible in its future ventures. A great example of this is Microsoft and its update from Windows 98 to Windows 98 SE (Second Edition). All that Second Edition is, is a bunch of bug fixes and minor additions to the original OS. Any Windows 98 owner must pay around $20 to get the SE version Win 98. This is one of the reasons that people think MS uses unfair business practices!

palm keyboard

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/4/2000 12:52:55 PM #

is anyone using the palm keyboard with the new palm VIIx ? i originally purchased a palm VII and used my keyboard with it - no problem...then returned the VII for the VIIx - now the keyboard won't work it tries to hotsync every time you hit any key.......may not be compatible

RE: palm keyboard

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/15/2000 12:41:48 AM #

You must install your keyboard software onto your new Palm, or else the Palm thinks you are HotSyncing.

RE: palm keyboard

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/18/2001 9:37:22 PM #

I've experienced a lot of woes with my (replacement) keyboard initiating HotSync. I'm only a few days into using the 2nd keyboard - first went back because many keys didn't work (which specific keys varied from time to time - some software bug).

My current theory is either
1) that you can NOT cancel the HotSync - you must let it time-out and after a time-out it is fine. The cradle initiates HotSync by connecting pins 2 and 7 directly together so sloppily placing the Palm on the keyboard MAY be doing this.

2) Turning Beam Receive off helps.

Palm OS 4.0

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/11/2001 2:24:46 AM #

Btw palm os 4.0 DR2 (developers release 2)

is out on palmos.com
and it supports the dragonball cpu as well as sd cards.
Also it can mount a folder on the desktop as media and access it from the device (without syncing)

just thought ya like to know

RE: Palm OS 4.0

I.M. Anonymous @ 2/12/2001 3:37:27 PM #

Can u send me the palmos 4 rom files??
How can I install them on my Palm V???

Please answer to: fultheim@hotmail.com

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