Comments on: More GPS Phones Heading to Market; Where's Palm?

Another interesting report from Taiwanese industry trade journal Digitimes has just been posted concerning the growing importance of integrated GPS functionality within global smartphone market. While not Palm-specific in nature, the article does seem to be soundly researched and Palm's absence from the list of major handset vendors who currently have or are working on GPS smartphone functionality is quite telling. Even GPS-specific firms such as TomTom and Garmin are listed as possibly working in conjunction with the large Taiwanese ODMs to release "GPS PDA phones in 2007".

One possibility is that Palm could be secretly collaborating with either TomTom or Garmin for a co-branded device to be produced by one of Palmís Taiwanese ODMs. Both TomTom and Garmin have at least some historical connection to the Palm companies, so there would be some merit in a potential partnership.

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PalmOS holding WM back

Surur @ 9/16/2007 3:28:42 PM # Q
My personal theory is that the founders and management of Palm are so attached to PalmOS they refuse to release products which make POS handhelds look bad, hence the lack of wifi on the 700wx and 750v and even 500v.

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...
Hey!! I made associate writer at PDA247. Come see my nattering over there!!
www.clieuk.co.uk/wm.shtml

RE: PalmOS holding WM back
hkklife @ 9/16/2007 4:30:36 PM # Q
But Surus, POS *IS* capable of wi-fi, GPS, gigs of internal storage volumes, dual memory card slots, decent quality 2MP cameras w/ flash, 320x480 LCDs, OLED screens etc etc.

Garmin, Sony, and even Palm themselves have released various devices over the years with any combination of the above features. And let's not even begin to get into the lack of things like 3.5mm stereo headphone jacks.

No, Palm's just too cheap & arrogant to include any features they deem unimportant.

And I'm not saying I want all of the above features on a single device. But offering at least one Treo w/ wi-fi and one PDA with GPS would be a giant step in the right direction.

The $10 thrown away on the Fooleo concept could have been used to brilliantly shore up the worst parts of FrankenGarnet and at least extended its useful service life for another 2 years or so in midrange and low-end devices.

The 500v already makes the POS Treos look bad with its under-the-hood specs (A2DP, UMTS, 2MP camera). Had Palm designed the 500v in-house and/or not intentionally omitted "physical" features (Athena connector, IR port, ring/mute switch, fullsize SDHC slot), it'd easily have been a true flagship Treo.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: PalmOS holding WM back
Gekko @ 9/16/2007 5:21:59 PM # Q

can someone list me the major palm innovations since the treo 600 was released?



RE: PalmOS holding WM back
freakout @ 9/16/2007 5:24:33 PM # Q
^^ Um... uh... erm... red Treos? ;)

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680
Stop bashing the Foleo
Palm_Is_Dead @ 9/16/2007 6:44:22 PM # Q
It wasn't Hawkins' "secret third business" after all:

http://fakejeff.blogspot.com/

The Foleo and the Treo 800 were supposed to run the exact same OS.

First person to figure out why Palm decided to not use Foleo OS as the Treo's PalmLinux gets a gold star. And maybe a suit made with golden threads.
;-)

The truth is out there. Right under your noses.

RE: PalmOS holding WM back
Gekko @ 9/16/2007 6:55:18 PM # Q
Whodunnit? The frickin' *carriers*
freakout @ 9/16/2007 7:09:50 PM # Q
God, how I hate the American carriers. Their incredibly irritating insistence on sticking their fingers into everyone else's pies affects the design of handsets and mobile operating systems sold all over the world. Someone needs to teach them their place. They are pipes. They are utilities. They know next-to-nothing about anything else. They need a good bitch-slap.

Anyhoo, Mapquest developer David Beers has fleshed out a credible-sounding theory on his blog as to why the Foleo OS got the chop (and why Palm were stupid not to see it coming) :

Now, Mercer is a magician when it comes to coaxing stunning graphic effects and elegant, performant user interfaces out of resource-constrained devices. If you have seen some of his recent work you'll know to expect a beautiful UI on the next Palm OS. But I've spent some time with the Foleo operating system and it's a very nice piece of work, too. I'd go so far as to say that Palm's lightweight DirectFB windowing system sets a new standard of responsiveness and simplicity for mobile Linux. As far as I can see, it would have made a great smartphone OS. Given how far Palm had got with Foleo, there's really only one solid reason I can see for Palm pulling the plug on it.

That would be the wireless carriers.

I have some grave doubts that the carriers in the US are enthusiastic about releasing phones with a new, open native Linux platform. Sheesh, they're even twitchy about sandboxed Java MIDlets running on their phones. AT&T completely blocks access to the file system by a Java application. No files for you! There are mass market phones with native APIs, namely BREW, but getting an app onto those handsets is a little like mustering a siege on a well-fortified castle. Certifying a single BREW C/C++ application to run on Verizon handsets costs several hundred dollars and requires at least a couple months of testing by NSTL, often much more. Then if you tweak a feature or fix a bug, you must certify again. The carriers do not want support hassles, and it's the native applications, which are vulnerable to buffer overruns and security problems, that concern them the most. Dollars to doughnuts, more than one Tier 1 carrier came to Palm with a requirement that native applications would have to be digitally signed and undergo rigorous carrier testing to run on their phones. That would have thrown a huge bucket of ice water on Palm's developer ecosystem. It's even quite possible in my view that one or more carriers said "no native 3rd party applications at all" as I bet at&t said to Apple. "Why can't you bring us an OS with a nice Java runtime environment for applications like your competitor, RIM?"

Screw you, U.S. wireless carriers! And curse you, Palm, for not forseeing the obvious.

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

RE: PalmOS holding WM back
LiveFaith @ 9/16/2007 8:20:33 PM # Q
Gekko, the answer to your question is ... The Big orange Blob. Palm's orange logo is popping up everywhere, kinda like the Wal-mart smiley. I see it 2-3 times per day on my reset screen.

It's time for Google or somebody to break the carrier tyranny whether this report is true or not. When it happens, get ready for the tide to turn. It's a huge market just waiting to happen and I cannot wait to see ATT, VZW etc burn.

Pat Horne

RE: PalmOS holding WM back
twrock @ 9/16/2007 10:08:37 PM # Q
PalmOS holding WM back

"It's not fair. He's holding me back." (whines Anakin Skywalker in Star Wars II)


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/

RE: PalmOS holding WM back
freakout @ 9/17/2007 1:11:58 AM # Q
^^ Does this mean WM will eventually morph from whiny loser to tyrannical galactic overlord?
RE: PalmOS holding WM back
twrock @ 9/17/2007 1:34:39 AM # Q
Surur dons his large, black helmet and in a deep, breathy voice says, "Come to the dark side. It is your destiny."


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/
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The exact reason why I will be switching

lak @ 9/16/2007 5:03:53 PM # Q
Having been a long long time user of Palm, the lack of GPS and WiFi have finally convinced me to switch to a WM6 phone device. Sad, but there is little choice for me.

And it was certainly an eye opener when I got my hands on those very nice GPS phones. Wow! Now, the difficult decision is to choose one out of the so many available.

Where are you, Palm?

Free Enhanced Keyboard/Keypad for T3, T5 & LifeDrive
OriginalPlus v1.1 English / German / French layout
http://www.palmgear.com/software/showsoftware.cfm?prodid=55186

RE: The exact reason why I will be switching
LiveFaith @ 9/16/2007 8:26:25 PM # Q
** Where are you, Palm? **

About to release the next biggie. Treo 681 with 8 colors and reworked BT1.2, and a 1.3 mpx cam. Nobody needs WiFi and GPS is only a niche. Palm knows best.

Pat Horne

RE: The exact reason why I will be switching
Gekko @ 9/16/2007 8:41:36 PM # Q

Verizon launches US appeals court at Google-backed wireless plan
Throws Jello at Congress
By Cade Metz in San Francisco → More by this author
Published Saturday 15th September 2007 04:24 GMT

Much to Google's chagrin, Verizon has asked a federal court to shoot down new rules that would allow consumers to attach any device and any application to a prime portion of the U.S. wireless spectrum.

Earlier this week, the mega-telco filed a "petition for review" with the U.S. Court of Appeals, insisting it re-jigger Federal Communications Commission (FCC) rules for the so-called 700-MHz band, a slice of wireless spectrum to be auctioned off in January. According to Verizon, the FCC's decision to open a portion of the band to any application and any device is "arbitrary, capricious, unsupported by substantial evidence, and otherwise contrary to law".

Verizon prefers the status quo, where it has complete control over any wireless bandwidth it licenses from the FCC.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/09/15/verizon_throws_us_appeals_court_at_google_wireless_plan/



RE: The exact reason why I will be switching
mikecane @ 9/19/2007 1:19:18 PM # Q
Switching to what, Gekko? iPhone? AT&T is the NSA's and MPAA/RIAA's tool.

http://tinyurl.com/2wvrhh
http://tinyurl.com/2vbva9

You should know the real world, Gekko. Everyone gets filthy no matter what.

Reply to this comment

Apple to Introduce Faster iPhone Next Year

Gekko @ 9/17/2007 9:33:30 PM # Q

Apple to Introduce Faster iPhone Next Year
By Scott Moritz
Senior Writer
9/17/2007 2:37 PM EDT
URL: http://www.thestreet.com/newsanalysis/techtelecom/10379941.html

Apple (AAPL) will deliver the next version of the iPhone early next year, TheStreet.com has learned.

A faster third-generation, or 3G, iPhone will be available sometime in the first quarter, say people familiar with the production plans. The new iPhone should help quiet critics who were unimpressed by the 2.5G EDGE technology the first version used.



RE: Apple to Introduce Faster iPhone Next Year
hkklife @ 9/17/2007 9:53:22 PM # Q
So, the next iPhone will presumably have 16GB of storage, 3G wireless *AND* GPS? Oh dear...



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Apple to Introduce Faster iPhone Next Year
freakout @ 9/17/2007 10:23:41 PM # Q
I actually suspect iPhone demand has not been anywhere near what Jobs was expecting and Apple are running scared of Big Handset. Michael Mace put it best:

I can't speak for Apple's motivations, and I know they pride themselves on thinking different, but no one I know in the tech industry -- and I mean no one -- cuts the price of a consumer tech product two months after launch unless they're seriously worried about demand. It's just not done, because it pisses off your early buyers, trains customers to wait a few months before they buy, upsets the channel, produces a lot of returned products, and distracts people from your other announcements.

If current iPhone sales are okay, the only other reason I can think of to cut prices this soon would be if you're worried about a competitive situation. Let's see, what competitive announcement could have possibly spooked Apple? Could it be Nokia's announcement last week of a music phone priced at 225 euros ($306)?


RE: Apple to Introduce Faster iPhone Next Year
Gekko @ 9/17/2007 11:26:39 PM # Q

Apple Boosting iPhone Output
By Scott Moritz
Senior Writer
9/17/2007 1:15 PM EDT
URL: http://www.thestreet.com/newsanalysis/techtelecom/10379912.html

A successful price cut has cleared the way for Apple (AAPL) to boost iPhone production, TheStreet.com has learned.

A source familiar with the latest info says Apple is raising its manufacturing target for the quarter ending Dec. 31. The company had planned to make 1.7 million iPhones in the fiscal fourth quarter ending later this month, and to make 1.54 million iPhones in the fiscal first quarter ending Dec. 31.

But now, "That 1.54 million number is going up," says the source.



RE: Apple to Introduce Faster iPhone Next Year
freakout @ 9/17/2007 11:37:18 PM # Q
It's always a "source"... never anyone willing to put their name to it...
RE: Apple to Introduce Faster iPhone Next Year
abosco @ 9/18/2007 1:05:06 AM # Q
What a shock, a thread about the iPhone and freakout immediately comes in and spews a bunch of negative bullshit. What a moron. Classic FUD.

-Bosco
NX80v + Wifi + BT + S710a
RE: Apple to Introduce Faster iPhone Next Year
freakout @ 9/18/2007 1:18:21 AM # Q
Yeah, totally! I hate that freakout guy!

Oh, wait...

Take a chill pill, Bosco. I think the iPhone's cool. It's also overrated and subject to more unfounded speculation than any other product in recent memory. What's the harm in reminding people to take it all with a grain of salt?

RE: Apple to Introduce Faster iPhone Next Year
Foo Fighter @ 9/18/2007 3:58:37 PM # Q
Have pity on Freakout. His favored platform and company are both dying, leaving him little else to do but stand on his shrinking island...defending Palm from the rising ocean. Grab your sand pail, Timmy.

-------------------------------
http://www.theiphoneblog.com
RE: Apple to Introduce Faster iPhone Next Year
freakout @ 9/18/2007 5:35:17 PM # Q
Hey, at least I don't have to hack (and nearly brick) my phone to get it to work with a different network, Foo. :P

(http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2007/09/16/update-anysim-bricked-my-iphone-mommy/)

RE: Apple to Introduce Faster iPhone Next Year
mikecane @ 9/18/2007 5:35:24 PM # Q
What's the big freakin surprise about a faster iPhone next year? This is news?

You people are too used to Palm's releases.

Palm is not, thank bloody God, the REAL world of tech.

And when that new iPhone comes out? Expect ANOTHER price cut on the current one -- to clear out remaining stocks. Just like they do with iPods.

For Palm to accomplish that, they'd have to do a price of $0 -- with a $100 rebate!!

RE: Apple to Introduce Faster iPhone Next Year
Foo Fighter @ 9/18/2007 8:02:15 PM # Q
My iPhone wasn't bricked, I revived it.

Speaking of paying the nerd tax - watch the fecal discharge hit the fan when Palm ships its first product running PalmLinux, whatever it is to be called, and all the Treo fanboys cry out in anger..."Why can't I download PalmLinux onto my Treo 700? You mean I have to buy a new Treo to get this OS? WTF?!?! We should get a discount for being loyal customers!!!" LOL!

Provided of course they actually get this vaporware OS out the door. At this point its impossible to believe anything we're told by Palm. They have yet to deliver on any promise made. Foleo will ship in June. Foleo will ship in August. Foleo has been pushed back. Foleo has been canceled. PalmLinux will ship in Q4 '07. PalmLinux will ship in Q1 '08. PalmLinux will ship in 12-18 months. Unbelievable. The only thing that remains constantly on target is Palm's overall decline.

I never thought I would hear myself utter these words...but as perilous as their situation now is I half wonder if Palm wouldn't be better in releasing an improved Garnet, if only as a stopgap or interim measure to address technical shortcomings and threatening competition.

Throw in an improved network stack, better multitasking/multithreading, revamped UI. It won't reverse Palm's fortunes but it could provide some footing to hold their ground with, at least until the new Linux platform ships.

On the other hand...when you look at the mobile space and innovation taking shape (like Apple's arrival), you can't help wondering if any of this really matters anymore. Palm has been made irrelevant by competition and its own missteps that whatever this company does beyond this point will have little or no impact on the market. Most of Palm's loyal userbase has folded up an gone on. PalmLinux may arrive to the sound of crickets chirping.

-------------------------------
http://www.theiphoneblog.com

RE: Apple to Introduce Faster iPhone Next Year
freakout @ 9/18/2007 9:20:50 PM # Q
...Foleo will ship in June. Foleo will ship in August. Foleo has been pushed back...

When did they give exact dates like this? All I ever saw was "summer". (But you're right; Palm has a bad track record for breaking promises...)

RE: Apple to Introduce Faster iPhone Next Year
SeldomVisitor @ 9/19/2007 7:17:24 AM # Q
PALM never did give dates overtly for Foleo or Linux.

Foleo was always "summer", Linux =phone= was always "calendar 2008" though there MIGHT have been an "early calendar 2008" somewhere.

All the other dates are Me-Too Media - or worse, blog - crap.

Like iPhone sales estimates.


RE: Apple to Introduce Faster iPhone Next Year
mikecane @ 9/19/2007 12:16:29 PM # Q
>>>"Why can't I download PalmLinux onto my Treo 700? You mean I have to buy a new Treo to get this OS? WTF?!?! We should get a discount for being loyal customers!!!" LOL!

You mean COL = Cry Out Loud!

After they COL, then we LOL!

NO apps for iPhone? Welcome to Reality!
mikecane @ 9/19/2007 1:15:09 PM # Q
RE: Apple to Introduce Faster iPhone Next Year
SeldomVisitor @ 9/19/2007 1:30:54 PM # Q
I like the Network Stumbler one...useful!

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Cell Phone for Billionaires

Gekko @ 9/18/2007 5:57:42 PM # Q
RE: Cell Phone for Billionaires
mikecane @ 9/19/2007 12:18:36 PM # Q
Is that a joke? Well, this link isn't:

http://www.vertu.com/en/

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