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Comments on: Mossberg Compares the Q and Treo 700p

Walt Mossberg, the Wall Street Journal's personal technology reviewer, is widely regarded as a huge fan of Palm's Treo line. Walt recently put two smartphone heavyweights to the test: Motorola's new Windows Mobile Q, available exclusively on Verizon and Palm's Treo 700p, available on both Sprint and Verizon. Despite the Q coming in with sleek Razr-like styling cues and an astounding low price ($200 w/ 2-year contract), He still gives the nod to the $400 Treo 700p. The full article goes over the two smartphones and illustrates just how dissimilar these two competitors actually are.
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Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price.

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/9/2006 4:14:25 PM # Q
Palm simply doesn't get it. Palm's phones are TOO EXPENSIVE and TOO BIG to be taken seriously by the average consumer.

Small size, stylish looks, high quality and low price are a lot more important than ultimate functionality. Precisely why I would never give up my Samsung i500 - even if Palm offered me a dozen Treo 700p for free.

Oh well...


TVoR

RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price.
hkklife @ 6/9/2006 4:26:33 PM # Q
I predicted the worst when I saw the Q's LAUNCH pricetag (that's no mail in rebates, folks....just the out the door price w/ a 2-year contract!)

With the initial reviews giving the Q rather mediocre scores (at best), my fears are quelled a bit. But that still does not to address TVoR's points that Palm's products are hideously overpriced and look like something from 1999.

For the record, the Q @ Verizon (web & retail) is $200 w/ 2 year contract. The Verizon Blackberries are now $200 to $300 w/ contract.

And Verizon's in-store price (as of this past Monday the 5th) of the 700W & 700P is a jaw-dropping $500 w/ 2-year contract!!!!!!

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price.
Gekko @ 6/9/2006 5:08:26 PM # Q

Great article here:

RAZR'S edge
How a team of engineers and designers defied Motorola's own rules to create the cellphone that revived their company.
by Adam Lashinsky, FORTUNE Magazine
June 8, 2006: 9:44 AM EDT

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2006/06/12/8379239/index.htm



RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price.
Gekko @ 6/9/2006 5:09:37 PM # Q

"We'll sell more RAZRs this year than Apple will iPods."



RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/9/2006 5:39:45 PM # Q
I predicted the worst when I saw the Q's LAUNCH pricetag (that's no mail in rebates, folks....just the out the door price w/ a 2-year contract!)

With the initial reviews giving the Q rather mediocre scores (at best), my fears are quelled a bit. But that still does not to address TVoR's points that Palm's products are hideously overpriced and look like something from 1999.

For the record, the Q @ Verizon (web & retail) is $200 w/ 2 year contract. The Verizon Blackberries are now $200 to $300 w/ contract.

And Verizon's in-store price (as of this past Monday the 5th) of the 700W & 700P is a jaw-dropping $500 w/ 2-year contract!!!!!!

While Motorola's Q isn't exactly a great smartphone, how long until other manufacturers figure out how to make a good, cheap smartphone? Sony Ericsson and Nokia are now getting VERY close. Palm will soon find out how well $500 Treos will compete with $100 - $300 offerings from the competition.

Greed is Bad, Mr. Colligan.


TVoR

RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
jfme @ 6/9/2006 7:00:22 PM # Q
"And Verizon's in-store price (as of this past Monday the 5th) of the 700W & 700P is a jaw-dropping $500 w/ 2-year contract!!!!!!"

Wow, that is a $500 downpayment, with $110/month for 24 months. Are AC and and side airbags included with this lease?

RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
goat_fajitas @ 6/9/2006 8:03:28 PM # Q
Maybe its you that doesnt get it... Palm is targeting serious enterprise customers. The Treo 700p rocks !

Yes its bigger, and fatter, this allows a great battery. I would say the Q and others like it are flimsy. Mossberg seemed to love the Treo as well, even though its bigger, and costs 2x as much, it still wins out. Did you even read the whole article to find out why?

RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price.
rsc1000 @ 6/9/2006 8:20:38 PM # Q
>>how long until other manufacturers figure out how to make a good, cheap smartphone?

Didn't everybody ask this question 2 years ago? The answer is apparently - 'a long long time'.
Sure they are getting the cheap part right - but i am still amazed at how long it takes these global beomoths to get the 'good' part down.

Its really the same as with the Blackberrys and their push-email experience. I think most people also expected Windows Mobile, Palm, Symbian devices (Nokia), to clean RIMs clock years ago as well. And here we are in 2006 - and i'll be the first to admit that i could never ever have imagined how bad a job all the 'big' companies would do at beating out RIM. The treo comes closest, and with bbconnect push capabilities, it is IMHO a much better device.

People are willing to pay a premium for a better experience. Yeah - it feels like rape to me. But Palms strategy has worked well for them these last 2 years with the Treo. I think they know they have to go cheap and they have announced that they intend to release a low-end model. In the meantime - it's hard to blame them for taking in the cash when people are willing to pay and the competition fails (again and again) to step up.

RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/9/2006 11:18:06 PM # Q
>>how long until other manufacturers figure out how to make a good, cheap smartphone?

Didn't everybody ask this question 2 years ago? The answer is apparently - 'a long long time'.
Sure they are getting the cheap part right - but i am still amazed at how long it takes these global beomoths to get the 'good' part down.

While I'm surprised that no-one has yet beat Handspring's 3 year old Treo 600 design, I also realize that it's only a matter of time before one of the Big Boys (or a company like HTC) releases a smaller, lighter, better-built, cheaper smartphone and immediately swipes Palm's marketshare. Consumers are not loyal and Palm is doing everything possible to make it an easy decision for consumers to jump off the bandwagon.

Samsung came close to the perfect smartphone with the i500. The i550 would have been the new ideal had it not been spurned by the dumba$$es at Sprint.


TVoR

RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
PenguinPowered @ 6/9/2006 11:51:55 PM # Q
Palm is targeting serious enterprise customers.

While even Blackberry is trying to move into a larger market.

Palm's market share lasts exactly as long as they can convince those serious enterprise customers that the feature set on the Treo is enough better to justify the higher cost.

The indication is that the competition is dropping price and adding feature set at a much faster rate than Palm.

This is a downward spiral. The smaller your relative market share, the less money you have for R&D, the longer it takes you to get out a competitive process, and the farther you fall behind.


May You Live in Interesting Times

RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price.
AdamaDBrown @ 6/10/2006 12:36:55 AM # Q
I think they know they have to go cheap and they have announced that they intend to release a low-end model.

Actually, as far as I know Palm has made no official confirmation of a low end device. All the "Lowrider" talk is just rumor. They haven't denied it either, but then, they usually don't.

RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/10/2006 1:02:13 AM # Q
>>>Palm is targeting serious enterprise customers.

While even Blackberry is trying to move into a larger market.

Palm's market share lasts exactly as long as they can convince those serious enterprise customers that the feature set on the Treo is enough better to justify the higher cost.

The indication is that the competition is dropping price and adding feature set at a much faster rate than Palm.

This is a downward spiral. The smaller your relative market share, the less money you have for R&D, the longer it takes you to get out a competitive process, and the farther you fall behind.

Precisely. It's amazing that most people still don't seem to understand this. While I'm shocked that we have yet to see a "Treo killer", in the end the competition might only need to undercut palm on PRICE. If enough people stop buying expensive Treos, where is Palm's revenue source. Things will snowball quickly on Redink Mountain and I expect Chateau Colligan (sitting oblivious in the valley below) will be obliterated quickly.

Palm's "R&D" in the past 3 years has NOTHING to show for itself - this company is just living off the Handspring Treo 600 design. But if they keep riding + beating that broken down old Treo 600 nag, eventually it will collapse and end up in the glue factory.

The Treo Franchaise is slowly circling the toilet...


TVoR

RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
PenguinPowered @ 6/10/2006 2:08:23 PM # Q
I don't think we'll ever see a "Treo Killer" because, as the Q demonstrates, the competition is making an end run around the enterprise market. Moto has clearly put a stake in the ground, and the rumor mill has Nokia not far behind with a consumer-oriented 'smart' phone.

It's easier to cede the "enterprise" market to Palm/RIM and go after the much larger, more lucrative consumer market.

This, by the way, is why ALP will eventually see the light of day, because it is going to be effective in the mid-level phone market in Asia, where CMS is already playing.


May You Live in Interesting Times

The Treo Killers kill with 1000 papercuts
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/10/2006 2:17:39 PM # Q
I don't think we'll ever see a "Treo Killer" because, as the Q demonstrates, the competition is making an end run around the enterprise market. Moto has clearly put a stake in the ground, and the rumor mill has Nokia not far behind with a consumer-oriented 'smart' phone.

It's easier to cede the "enterprise" market to Palm/RIM and go after the much larger, more lucrative consumer market.

This, by the way, is why ALP will eventually see the light of day, because it is going to be effective in the mid-level phone market in Asia, where CMS is already playing.

Marty, you still don't understand what a "Treo Killer" needs to do in order to accomplish its mission. Any device that offers the core subset of Treo features needed by individuals + businesses while undercutting Treos in price + offering better reliability/build quality/stability/voice quality will quickly siphon customers from Palm's pool of Treo customers. It's not necessary (or even desirable) for a "Treo Killer" to compete with the Treo feature for feature.

Furthermore, with Windows Mobile now sporting free "push" email and Palm still lacking an integrated push email solution, there's zero possibility that anyone's about to roll over and "cede the "enterprise" market to Palm/RIM". It's just too easy to leverage the Microsoft name to carve out a healthy chunk of the business market from Palm and RIM. Push email for the common workers, all for "free". Who could resist?

Access' VaporOS is a long way off and PalmOS 5 cannot be hacked anymore without a significant investment in time + codemonkey hours by Palm. Not a good idea, especially for a company that does not own the OS. Palm's marketshare is about to evaporate as quickly as a Vaporware Springboard module in the morning sun. Nokia et. al. will be in full Take No Prisoners™ mode when their new phones arrive later this year. Every sale they steal from Palm reduces Palm's profits and accelerates Palm's spiral into oblivion (bankruptcy).

TVoR


RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
PenguinPowered @ 6/10/2006 5:41:58 PM # Q
Ah, but you're wrong. You can delete "+ business" and stick entirely with the consumer market. Watch the industry for the next couple of years and learn. ;)


May You Live in Interesting Times

You still don't understand, Grasshopper.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/10/2006 6:12:18 PM # Q
You can delete "+ business" and stick entirely with the consumer market.

With hundreds of millions of personal cellphones being sold every year (probably close to 1 BILLION in 2006), of course the major handset manufacturers could focus solely on the consumer market and still do well. But why would they want to ignore the enterprise market? Why throw away a lucrative sideline when you already have a product businesses want? Ignoring enterprise would be akin to an auto manufacturer refusing to sell vehicles (at a premium) to a car rental company or any other bulk purchaser of its vehicles.

"Smartphone" will soon be a redundant term, since all phones will eventually ship with the kind of features seen on today's smartphones. Any manufacturer that ignores business users is throwing away easy money. At the same time, any manufacturer thinking they can gear themselves to just business users is deceiving themselves. (The only reason why RIM is still around in 2006 is the spectacular failure of Microsoft and Palm to capitalize on their respective platform's ability to handle email.) The key is making the user experience (individual and business) as painless and turnkey as possible.

Palm has shown itself incapable of advancing the few original ideas it has come up with. Even if Palm had competent leadership (it doesn't) it would only have been a matter of time before it was crushed by the likes of Nokia and Motorola.

TVoR

RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
PenguinPowered @ 6/10/2006 7:05:19 PM # Q
"Smartphone" will soon be a redundant term, since all phones will eventually ship with the kind of features seen on today's smartphones.

Which is why moto doesn't need to do anything special for business users. When the moto phones are ubiquitous, businesses will realize that they can get by without the extra features.

why put in the extra work to add the features when you can live off the larger market and eventually force the business user to come to you?

May You Live in Interesting Times

It makes good sense
freakout @ 6/10/2006 10:22:40 PM # Q
AdamaDBrown said:
"Actually, as far as I know Palm has made no official confirmation of a low end device. All the "Lowrider" talk is just rumor."

For now. But I'm sure that Palm see the obvious need for a cheaper, low-end Treo to compete with phones like the Q. A "Lowrider" is simply common sense, which is why I firmly believe the rumours are true. The real question will be whether it will be able to stop the big phone makers from eating Palm's lunch.

While I hesitate to be as blindly faithful as Sagio, a correctly designed Lowrider could be a very hot consumer item.

It's not all doom and gloom! Yet.

This sig is a placeholder till I come up with something good

RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/10/2006 10:41:51 PM # Q
why put in the extra work to add the features when you can live off the larger market and eventually force the business user to come to you?

You're not making sense, Marty. Any company that can establish itself NOW as a business email solution stands to make a killing, since RIM is currently the only (main) game in town. Steal Blackberry's thunder and become the de facto standard (get mindshare in the business world) and watch the profits roll in year after year. Look at how much RIM is raking in with its crappy hardware, uber-expensive software and perpetual support costs. That could have been money going to Palm (or Microsoft licensees) if only they got their act together.

NOW is the time to milk businesses for all they're worth by getting in EARLY and providing them a turnkey solution that (slightly) undercuts RIM's extravagant pricing. Wait much longer and the enterprise pie will have to be shared between dozens of hungry handset manufacturers, all providing commodity-priced devices that hook into a standardized server.

TVoR

RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/10/2006 10:54:53 PM # Q
a correctly designed Lowrider could be a very hot consumer item.

Correction: "a correctly designed Lowrider would have been a very hot consumer item in 2004. Palm could have become a MAJOR handset supplier if only they had any corporate leadership. Imagine how many people would have been willing to buy a 3 - 4 ounce traditional form factor cellphone that also happened to run PalmOS. Imagine the boost these sales would have given to the currently moribund Palm Economy. Pathetic.


It's not all doom and gloom! Yet.

Yes. Nagel said we will be seeing several Cobalt smartphones released in 2005. I KNOW they'll be here soon...

TVoR

RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
freakout @ 6/10/2006 11:16:26 PM # Q
TVoR, what was applicable in 2004 that isn't in 2006? Obviously there's increased competition, but it will mean sweet dick all if the Lowrider is a great product. Given that phones like the Q aren't even better than the 650 feature-wise, if Palm make a good-looking device then they'll sell like hotcakes.

Obviously your experience with the company is telling you otherwise, but it still seems too early to me to be writing Palm's obituary.

This sig is a placeholder till I come up with something good

RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
ChiA @ 6/11/2006 7:12:47 AM # Q
freakout said
TVoR, what was applicable in 2004 that isn't in 2006? Obviously there's increased competition, but it will mean sweet dick all if the Lowrider is a great product.

Because in 2006 (at least in Europe) the consumer can get "dumb" mobiles from most manufacturers which (with the exception of a qwerty keyboard) have features and specifications superior to the 700p. The European carriers provide these handsets for free or with heavy carrier subsidy (conditional upon 12 month or 18 month contract naturally). Even without any carrier subsidy some of these phones are cheaper than a Treo 650.

Give yourself an education and visit www.expansys.com for what you can buy in the UK and Europe today.

So, for the Lowrider to be a "great product" for the consumer market it'll have to have more features than the Treo 700p yet sell at a third of its price, otherwise it'll be blown out of the water faster than a raft struck by a cruise missile.

It'll be astounding if Palm can rise up to this challenge. If Lowrider is anything less then the squeamish had better look away as the bears of Nokia, Motorola and Samsung will savagely maul Palm's Lowrider puppy in the consumer market.

"All but the hard hearted man must be torn with pity for this pathetic dilemma of the rich man, who has to keep the poor man just stout enough to do the work and just thin enough to have to do it."
GK Chesterton - Utopia of Usurers, 1917

RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
SeldomVisitor @ 6/11/2006 8:53:47 AM # Q
I think the Q introduced not a wildy interesting new smartphone (though it, too, is cool like the TREOs) but instead a pricepoint that smacked PALM upside the head.

And THAT is what PALM has to best - and there ain't no way they can, IMHO, due to lack of "size" - Motorola can sell the Q for less than they make it since they are so vast the Q is almost an insignificant part of their revenue stream - while with the TREOs - well, they're the ONLY revenue stream PALM has, eh?


RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
freakout @ 6/11/2006 12:44:11 PM # Q
"but instead a pricepoint that smacked PALM upside the head"

Q = $199
Treo 650 = $199 on Verizon, $99 on Earthlink.

.... Did I miss something?

This sig is a placeholder till I come up with something good

RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
freakout @ 6/11/2006 12:47:25 PM # Q
"Because in 2006 (at least in Europe) the consumer can get "dumb" mobiles from most manufacturers which (with the exception of a qwerty keyboard) have features and specifications superior to the 700p."

Lol. Name three.

This sig is a placeholder till I come up with something good

Be careful what you ask for, freak!
ChiA @ 6/11/2006 1:36:50 PM # Q
The freak said:
Lol. Name three.

From www.expansys.com and www.orange.co.uk:

Nokia N91 - 4GB of storage, 2 Megapixel camera, EDGE, 3G and wifi but look no antenna and not the size of a brick!

Orange M5000 (rebadged HTC) - has less memory than the Treo 700p but has everything else it plus 3G and wifi!

Motorola RAZR V3x - a RAZR but with 2 Megapixel camera and 3G.

plus many consumer handsets which come with a minimum of 2 megapixel cameras from Sony Ericsson, Samsung, Motorola, Nokia etc which are all just as capable of handling MP3s and email.

Besides, the most current GSM Treo is the 650 which is blown out of the water by many consumer handsets available today in the UK yet that is currently Palm's premium European smartphone!

Judging from it's lack of speed in the past - it took 6 months for the GSM Treo 650 to arrive in Europe - by the time a new GSM Treo arrives the other manufacturers will have something faster, better and cheaper. If you want to see what'll be hitting the scene within the next three months just visit www.mobileburn.com; Palm execs thinking a low feature Palm Lowrider will be a great product for the consumer market had better have a change of underwear to hand!

Palm MAULED by Nokia. Film at 11.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/11/2006 2:44:58 PM # Q
the squeamish had better look away as the bears of Nokia, Motorola and Samsung will savagely maul Palm's Lowrider puppy


Palm has taken 3 YEARS to go from the Treo 600 to the 700p. And what was added in that time? Bluetooth, a better screen and a little more memory (let's be honest now) - features that should have been part of the original Treo 600 from Day 1 if only Handspring hadn't been broke. Of course, several apps are now brutally, savagely broken by the Treo 700p, so are the Treo 700 "advances" really worth it?

Major handset manufacturers have design cycles that produce new, improved models every 6 - 12 months. Palm is unable (or unwilling) to innovate at that pace and is therefore being left behind in the dust. Once passed, they will simply continue to fall further + further behind the cutting edge in terms of features, until they simply no longer matter. And since carriers are Palm's new masters, once carriers start sourcing ALL of their smartphones from the competition, Palm is screwed. Those looking for PalmOS apps on good, inexpensive hardware will be better off just buying a copy of StyleTap Platform and a next-generation Windows phone.

Price + lack of control over the OS are the keys to Palm's demise. Go to Sony Ericsson's or Nokia's websites and behold how advanced cellphones have become in 2006, Grasshopper. Palm can't beat these companies in engineering, design cycles or price, while at the same time, PalmOS (previously Palm's ace in the hole) has become irrelevant.

With Palm now completely dependent on revenues from carriers + Treos to survive, as soon as profits are squeezed by competition from the major handset manufacturers, Palm has NOTHING to fall back on. Perhaps they'll figure out a way to survive by becoming a Boutique Brand™ - like (Cr)Apple - but I doubt it.

Even Poor Old Marty Fouts is starting to get it now: Nokia et. al. don't fcuk around. Cellphones are about to become the most important piece of electronics in the lives of consumers (voice + email communication, photography, Internet, contact management, music, TV, video) and will soon be replacing numerous other categories of electronics (standalone digital cameras and MP3 players will be among the first to feel the heat). Palm could have been a major player in this cellphone-centric future, but they blew it. Big time. Oh well.


TVoR

RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
SeldomVisitor @ 6/11/2006 3:34:44 PM # Q
> ...Major handset manufacturers have design cycles that
> produce new, improved models every 6 - 12 months...

Nokia introduces a new phone very 9 days.

RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/11/2006 3:51:47 PM # Q
> ...Major handset manufacturers have design cycles that
> produce new, improved models every 6 - 12 months...

Nokia introduces a new phone very 9 days.


;-O

More like every 9 seconds. Note: I did try to qualify their release schedule by saying "new, improved phone...". Most new models coming out are incremental upgrades or cosmetic changes, but at least once or twice a year the big handset manufacturers come up with impressive, completely new releases. Historically, Palm has come up with significant new designs every 3 years or so (Pilot 1000, Palm V, Tungsten T3. If it's planning on competing with Nokia, Sony Ericsson, Samsung, Motorola, LG, etc., that's just not gonna cut it anymore.

TVoR

RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
freakout @ 6/11/2006 10:01:17 PM # Q
Okay, the Nokia is pretty cool. The other two weren't all that impressive; the Orange is ugly and the RAZR is the most overrated phone on the market. 3G Treos are on the way, and you can add Wi-Fi to the Windows ones via SDIO, so I don't see that as a major sticking point anymore.

I now accept your argument that competitors will be able to undercut Palm. I don't accept that they're just going to roll over and die, however.

As always, I remain optimistic. As far as I'm concerned, it ain't over until Palm is bankrupt. ;)

This sig is a placeholder till I come up with something good

RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
ChiA @ 6/12/2006 7:14:10 AM # Q
The freak said:
Okay, the Nokia is pretty cool. The other two weren't all that impressive; the Orange is ugly
There are many who feel that the Treo with its antenna isn't a pretty boy either: can you see any other phones on the European market with external antenna?
and the RAZR is the most overrated phone on the market.
When you compare the Motorola V3x to the Treo 650, which is the latest Palm smartphone in Europe, the V3x comes with more user memory (64MB), two cameras (one 2 megapixel & one for videoconferencing) and 3G yet you describe it as overrated?!
3G Treos are on the way, and you can add Wi-Fi to the Windows ones via SDIO, so I don't see that as a major sticking point anymore.
...I don't accept that they're just going to roll over and die
The only way you can add wi-fi to the Palm Treos is by using a bulky sled at a time when even printers and digital cameras are now available with built-in wi-fi.

If Palm takes the same amount of time incorporating 3G into a Treo as it did Bluetooth, it may as well roll over and die - the graveyard is already occupied by those companies slaughtered in the mobile market: Panasonic, Siemens and even Ericsson. Pray that Nokia and Motorola undertakers haven't already taken Palm's measurement for its casket.

RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
SeldomVisitor @ 6/12/2006 7:17:17 AM # Q
Though this post is not meant to tout the RAZR as being something worthwhile - I don't personally know (other than I rejected the idea of getting two free ones when I signed up with Cingular's Family Plan a couple months ago in favor of a Sony-Ericsson model) - I am pretty much floored with just how many I see "out there". Saturday I went to the Fairfax County Fair (big deal here in Northern Virginia) and every-other teenybopper had one glued to his/her ear.

Amazing sales.

RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
freakout @ 6/12/2006 8:50:56 AM # Q
"The only way you can add wi-fi to the Palm Treos is by using a bulky sled"

Yep, that's true, which is why I said "you can add Wi-Fi to the *Windows* ones via SDIO".

External antennas don't really bother me. Yes, I'd prefer the Treo had an internal one, but the placement of the antenna is hardly the deciding factor in what makes a great phone. The (alleged) Hollywood will do away with it soon anyways, so it'll be a moot point.

And yes, RAZRs are overrated. Don't get me wrong, they're nice. They're thin, and they have a few cool features. The UI, like that on most mobile phones, sucks dog's balls compared to the ease-of-use you get with a PalmOS Treo. My friends who have one tell me battery life is pretty stinky too. Also, I must admit part of the reason I don't like them is 'cause it seems like *everyone* has one nowadays...

I'm not here to argue, just to say that I'm sure there are lots of other loyal Treo fans like myself who are eagerly awaiting the next iteration, and the one after that, and the one after that. Heck, I know there are, what with all the Treo fansites out there nowadays. So I think it's premature to be hammering the nails into Palm's coffin when they have a winning form factor, when they still have some interesting (rumoured) new products coming, and likely even a new OS.

And FWIW, the Enfora sled isn't all that bad. It's a rather neat solution actually, as it has it's own battery and thus doesn't drain your device as horribly as built-in wi-fi does. Ever used one? (I had the chance to play with one last week. Was very impressed.) Yeah, it adds bulk, but good smartphones and PDAs are all bulky right now anyways.

All my subjective opinion. No need to get cut up about it.

This sig is a placeholder till I come up with something good

RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
relyons @ 6/12/2006 12:07:11 PM # Q
> Palm has taken 3 YEARS to go from the Treo 600 to the 700p.

The Treo 600 launch was September 2003. Three years would be September 2006. The 700p launch was May 2006.

> And what was added in that time? Bluetooth, a better screen
> and a little more memory (let's be honest now) - features that
> should have been part of the original Treo 600 from Day 1 if
> only Handspring hadn't been broke.

The following are Treo 700p improvements over the Treo 600.

* Bluetooth for voice and data
* Twice the screen resolution (320x320 versus 160x160)
* Four times the memory (128MB vs. 32MB RAM)
* Over twice the processor speed (312 Mhz vs 144 Mhz)
* Non-volatile memory (NVRAM)
* Double the camera resolution (1280x1024 vs 640x480)
* Video capture
* Removable battery
* High speed data access (EVDO speeds vs. GPRS speeds)
* Microsoft Exchange integration

TVoR identified the first three in his post. He ignored the last seven.

> Of course, several apps are now brutally, savagely broken by the Treo 700p,
> so are the Treo 700 "advances" really worth it?

TVoR posted no facts to back up his claim of applications that are "brutally, savagely borken" on the 700p.

TVoR was wrong regarding the three year timeline.
TVoR was wrong seven times about the 700p feature set.
TVoR was wrong regarding "broken" applications.

TVoR uses inaccuracies and emotions instead of facts in his arguments.

WHOA, Nelly!!!! (Someone is looking like a fool + it's not me...)
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/12/2006 12:45:35 PM # Q
> Palm has taken 3 YEARS to go from the Treo 600 to the 700p.

The Treo 600 launch was September 2003. Three years would be September 2006. The 700p launch was May 2006.

Let's see... so the Treo 700p was launched 2 years and 8 months after the Treo 600? Should I break it down to the # of days, hours, minutes and seconds as well? Sheesh. And since we are now in June with no better Treos than the Treo 700p available, it looks like we're at 2 years and 9 months after the Treo 600 with no significantly improved devices available from Palm. I hope you'll find it in your heart to forgive me for rounding this up to "3 YEARS"...

> And what was added in that time? Bluetooth, a better screen
> and a little more memory (let's be honest now) - features that
> should have been part of the original Treo 600 from Day 1 if
> only Handspring hadn't been broke.

The following are Treo 700p improvements over the Treo 600.

* Bluetooth for voice and data
* Twice the screen resolution (320x320 versus 160x160)
* Four times the memory (128MB vs. 32MB RAM)
* Over twice the processor speed (312 Mhz vs 144 Mhz)
* Non-volatile memory (NVRAM)
* Double the camera resolution (1280x1024 vs 640x480)
* Video capture
* Removable battery
* High speed data access (EVDO speeds vs. GPRS speeds)
* Microsoft Exchange integration

TVoR identified the first three in his post. He ignored the last seven.

Bubba, you crack me up. Really. The things you mention only emphasize how pathetically-specced BOTH the Treo 600 and the Treo 700p were.

1) Bluetooth - should have been part of the Treo 600 from Day 1 (was apparently dropped at the last minute).
2) Better screen (shouldn't you say "4 times the screen resolution to make it sound better?) should have been part of the original Treo 600 spec.
3) The increase in memory has gone from "insulting" to "adequate". For a $500 phone, 128 MB is the least we should expect.
4) Processor speed increased from 144 MHz to 312 MHz IN 3 YEARS*??? Wow. I'm impressed. Get serious. When the Treo 600 was specced, they gave it one of the SLOWEST non-adaptive (i.e. non-HHE) CPU of any Palm device being sold. To be honest, I don't think CPU speed really matters on a smartphone as long as it is not noticeably sluggish - my personal smartphone runs a blinding 66 MHz Dragonball processor with 16 megs of RAM and PalmOS 4.1. And STILL kicks the snot out of any Treo out there in terms of build quality, voice quality and reliability.
5) NVRAM is crap and only causes application incompatibilities. A FAR better solution: provide users with a built-in backup application and an $20 SD card
6) The camera resolution (1.3 megapixel) is STILL pathetic. Even basic feature[hoones have much better cameras than the Treo 700p. Some phones are up to 5 megapixels now. 1.3 megapixels would have bee appropriate for a phone released in 2003.
7) Wasn't videocapture possible with previous apps by using 3rd party apps? i.e. it looks like Palm previously was just too LAZY and CHEAP to proovide users with access to features their $500 phones alredy supported! Pathetic.
8) Removable battery should have been specced for the original Treo 600. Is correcting glaring oversights REALLY an "advance"?
9) Hacking EVDO support into FrankenPalmOS is a genuine upgrade which I overlooked. Well done.
10) Microsoft Exchange integration has bee promised for 3 YEARS and only shows up now? Pathetic.

> Of course, several apps are now brutally, savagely broken by the Treo 700p,
> so are the Treo 700 "advances" really worth it?

TVoR posted no facts to back up his claim of applications that are "brutally, savagely borken" on the 700p.

http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=115147

http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=115827

Uninstall Manager
Ms. Pacman
LauncherX
Directory Assistant
Ptunes
MegaLauncher
Call Filter
CardExport2
ZLauncher
mRing
Skinner
Agendus
Profiles
Butler
KeyguardTime+

Do a web search and you'll find a LOT more app that have been wiped out by the Treo 700p. As usual, many developers will go back to the drawing board and spend the time figuring out how to make their apps work with the latest PalmOS 5 hatchet job. But some developers will eventually throw in the towel, with FrankenPalmOS claiming yet another victim. Well done, Palm!

TVoR was wrong regarding the three year timeline.
TVoR was wrong seven times about the 700p feature set.
TVoR was wrong regarding "broken" applications.

TVoR uses inaccuracies and emotions instead of facts in his arguments.

Thanks for showing everyone what a fool you are. (I especially loved the pedantic (pedantical - for DrOpinnion/Jeff Kirvin) comment about the "3 YEARS" it took to try and advance the Treo 600. Yes, I was off by a whopping 3 months. Forgive me, madam.

You got pown3d, Bubba. Have a seat.


TVoR


RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price.
hoodoo @ 6/12/2006 12:56:14 PM # Q
Good argument, plus, the screen is actually 4x the resolution:

160x160= 25,600 pixels

320x320= 102,400

I also assume the phone works? My 600 is afflicted with an annoying buzz and it is now used for everything except phone, smemwhat ironically, for which I temporarily have a cheap Nokia, while I wait for something...Bell has the 650 for $99, tempting.



RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
relyons @ 6/12/2006 1:52:38 PM # Q
hoodoo said,

> Good argument, plus, the screen is actually 4x the resolution:
> 160x160= 25,600 pixels
> 320x320= 102,400

Excellent catch! Thanks, hoodoo.

During the last couple of hours, I thought of two more improvements in the 700p over the 600.

* Multi-connector
* Improved form factor and keyboard layout

TVoR was wrong two more times without saying anything new! Amazing!

RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
naio21 @ 6/12/2006 3:41:18 PM # Q
"You got pown3d, Bubba. Have a seat."

One more biotch for TVoR's list...

Ivan

Try this again - found my copy of 'HTML for Dummies':
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/12/2006 4:14:33 PM # Q
> Palm has taken 3 YEARS to go from the Treo 600 to the 700p.

The Treo 600 launch was September 2003. Three years would be September 2006. The 700p launch was May 2006.

Let's see... so the Treo 700p was launched 2 years and 8 months after the Treo 600? Should I break it down to the # of days, hours, minutes and seconds as well? Sheesh. And since we are now in June with no better Treos than the Treo 700p available, it looks like we're at 2 years and 9 months after the Treo 600 with no significantly improved devices available from Palm. I hope you'll find it in your heart to forgive me for rounding this up to "3 YEARS"...

> And what was added in that time? Bluetooth, a better screen
> and a little more memory (let's be honest now) - features that
> should have been part of the original Treo 600 from Day 1 if
> only Handspring hadn't been broke.

The following are Treo 700p improvements over the Treo 600.

* Bluetooth for voice and data
* Twice the screen resolution (320x320 versus 160x160)
* Four times the memory (128MB vs. 32MB RAM)
* Over twice the processor speed (312 Mhz vs 144 Mhz)
* Non-volatile memory (NVRAM)
* Double the camera resolution (1280x1024 vs 640x480)
* Video capture
* Removable battery
* High speed data access (EVDO speeds vs. GPRS speeds)
* Microsoft Exchange integration

TVoR identified the first three in his post. He ignored the last seven.

Bubba, you crack me up. Really. The things you mention only emphasize how pathetically-specced BOTH the Treo 600 and the Treo 700p were.

1) Bluetooth - should have been part of the Treo 600 from Day 1 (was apparently dropped at the last minute).
2) Better screen (shouldn't you say "4 times the screen resolution to make it sound better?) should have been part of the original Treo 600 spec.
3) The increase in memory has gone from "insulting" to "adequate". For a $500 phone, 128 MB is the least we should expect.
4) Processor speed increased from 144 MHz to 312 MHz IN 3 YEARS*??? Wow. I'm impressed. Get serious. When the Treo 600 was specced, they gave it one of the SLOWEST non-adaptive (i.e. non-HHE) CPU of any Palm device being sold. To be honest, I don't think CPU speed really matters on a smartphone as long as it is not noticeably sluggish - my personal smartphone runs a blinding 66 MHz Dragonball processor with 16 megs of RAM and PalmOS 4.1. And STILL kicks the snot out of any Treo out there in terms of build quality, voice quality and reliability.
5) NVRAM is crap and only causes application incompatibilities. A FAR better solution: provide users with a built-in backup application and an $20 SD card
6) The camera resolution (1.3 megapixel) is STILL pathetic. Even basic feature[hoones have much better cameras than the Treo 700p. Some phones are up to 5 megapixels now. 1.3 megapixels would have bee appropriate for a phone released in 2003.
7) Wasn't videocapture possible with previous apps by using 3rd party apps? i.e. it looks like Palm previously was just too LAZY and CHEAP to proovide users with access to features their $500 phones alredy supported! Pathetic.
8) Removable battery should have been specced for the original Treo 600. Is correcting glaring oversights REALLY an "advance"?
9) Hacking EVDO support into FrankenPalmOS is a genuine upgrade which I overlooked. Well done.
10) Microsoft Exchange integration has bee promised for 3 YEARS and only shows up now? Pathetic.

> Of course, several apps are now brutally, savagely broken by the Treo 700p,
> so are the Treo 700 "advances" really worth it?

TVoR posted no facts to back up his claim of applications that are "brutally, savagely borken" on the 700p.

http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=115147

http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=115827

Uninstall Manager
Ms. Pacman
LauncherX
Directory Assistant
Ptunes
MegaLauncher
Call Filter
CardExport2
ZLauncher
mRing
Skinner
Agendus
Profiles
Butler
KeyguardTime+

Do a web search and you'll find a LOT more app that have been wiped out by the Treo 700p. As usual, many developers will go back to the drawing board and spend the time figuring out how to make their apps work with the latest PalmOS 5 hatchet job. But some developers will eventually throw in the towel, with FrankenPalmOS claiming yet another victim. Well done, Palm!

TVoR was wrong regarding the three year timeline.
TVoR was wrong seven times about the 700p feature set.
TVoR was wrong regarding "broken" applications.

TVoR uses inaccuracies and emotions instead of facts in his arguments.

Thanks for showing everyone what a fool you are. (I especially loved the pedantic (pedantical - for DrOpinnion/Jeff Kirvin) comment about the "3 YEARS" it took to try and advance the Treo 600. Yes, I was off by a whopping 3 months. Forgive me, madam.

You got pown3d, Bubba. Have a seat.


TVoR

Don't use drugs, Kids.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/12/2006 4:26:08 PM # Q
4) Processor speed increased from 144 MHz to 312 MHz IN 3 YEARS*??? [SNIP]

6) The camera resolution (1.3 megapixel) is STILL pathetic. Even basic featurephones have much better cameras than the Treo 700p. Some phones are up to 5 megapixels now. 1.3 megapixels would have been appropriate for a phone released in 2003.

7) Wasn't videocapture possible with previous Treos by using 3rd party apps? i.e. it looks like Palm previously was just too LAZY and CHEAP to provide users with access to features their $500 phones alredy supported! Pathetic.


* Sorry. I mean "Processor speed increased from 144 MHz to 312 MHz IN 2 years, 9 months and counting"...

TVoR

RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price.
hkklife @ 6/12/2006 11:42:44 PM # Q
The "128mb" on the 700P is irrelevant. What matters is how much of that is LEFT OVER for the user. ~60mb free sounds decently impressive at first. But once you end up sticking "Deluxe" & updated versions of PTunes, DTG 8 etc. into RAM (Palm should really get together with Normsoft & Dataviz to offer dead-simple, idiot-proof ROM updaters for registered owners on Palm's site) you end up approaching the Treo 650's ~23mb free.

I am already having to go into my 700P and prune things a bit to keep close to 30mb available--better safe than sorry.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
relyons @ 6/13/2006 9:44:41 AM # Q
My reply to the post "The Voice Of Reason" withstood his attempted rebuttals.

1. He said three years has passed between the launch timeline between the 600 and 700p. The timeline is actually two years and eight months. He was wrong.

2. He identified Bluetooth, screen resolution and increased memory as the only additions over the 600 and 700p. I identified nine other improvements. He was wrong.

3. He said "several" apps are now "brutally, savagely broken" by the 700p. He did reply with a list of applications and two Treo Central discussion links.

He could not distinguish applications that misbehave because of a particular 700p flaw and applications that were miscoded by the developer from the beginning where the 700p exposed the problem. He was wrong.

Of the thousands of Palm OS applications on the market, a dozen applications with problems on a new device does not match his definition of "several". He was wrong.

-----

Readers: Ask yourself this question. Why are people like "The Voice of Reason" on this forum?

* If they are so disgusted with Palm's product offerings, why don't they buy a different device?

* Are they mentally disturbed?

* Are they shorting Palm stock?

* Are they compensated by Ryan to troll this forum to attract readers?

* Do they really believe that vicious, unconstructive rants on an internet forum make a difference?

* Why don't they take their superior handheld product knowledge and apply to work at Palm?

They must lead sad, meaningless lives. I pity them. I pray for their souls...

It's time for an intervention for relyons. I'm worried about her.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/13/2006 10:40:35 PM # Q
My reply to the post "The Voice Of Reason" withstood his attempted rebuttals.

Bwahahaha! Really? On what planet? Sorry Missy, but you couldn't debate your way out of a wet paper bag.

1. He said three years has passed between the launch timeline between the 600 and 700p. The timeline is actually two years and eight months. He was wrong.

Oh dear. You seem to be insane.

2. He identified Bluetooth, screen resolution and increased memory as the only additions over the 600 and 700p. I identified nine other improvements. He was wrong.

When did I say those were the ONLY changes that went into the Treo 700p? Please include a link to this alleged post. (Sorry, links to figments of your... vivid... imagination don't count.)


3. He said "several" apps are now "brutally, savagely broken" by the 700p. He did reply with a list of applications and two Treo Central discussion links.

He could not distinguish applications that misbehave because of a particular 700p flaw and applications that were miscoded by the developer from the beginning where the 700p exposed the problem. He was wrong.

Of the thousands of Palm OS applications on the market, a dozen applications with problems on a new device does not match his definition of "several". He was wrong.

Wow.This is starting to get creepy. I hope for your sake that you're joking. Seriously.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let's see what I REALLY said before you twisted it around: "Palm has taken 3 YEARS to go from the Treo 600 to the 700p. And what was added in that time? Bluetooth, a better screen and a little more memory (let's be honest now) - features that should have been part of the original Treo 600 from Day 1 if only Handspring hadn't been broke. Of course, several apps are now brutally, savagely broken by the Treo 700p, so are the Treo 700 "advances" really worth it?"

Hmmmm. Very interesting.

Readers: Ask yourself this question. Why are people like "The Voice of Reason" on this forum?

Maybe because we enjoy reading, writing + learning about PalmOS devices? Maybe because we care about the viability of an OS we're carried around with us daily (and pushed to the max as extreme power users) for over 10 years?

* If they are so disgusted with Palm's product offerings, why don't they buy a different device?

Maybe because they have THOUSANDS of dollars already invested in a fabulous stockpile of the best PalmOS devices ever made? (CLIES, HandEras, Tapwaves, Samsungs)

* Are they mentally disturbed?

Maybe ANYONE posting to a PDA site is not quite "normal"? Of course, perhaps you should go to the mirror to gaze upon a cornucopia of DSM IV diagnoses...

* Are they shorting Palm stock?

Maybe posts to fanboy/fangirl PDA sites have ZERO effect on stock prices?

* Are they compensated by Ryan to troll this forum to attract readers?

Maybe Ryan should ban your silly a$$ for trying to smear his reputation with a sleazy insinuation like that?

* Do they really believe that vicious, unconstructive rants on an internet forum make a difference?

Maybe vicious, CONSTRUCTIVE posts on the premiere PalmOS site are read by the leadership at Palm who have long since realized that their core users are fully aware of all the crap the company has tried to pull over the years? Maybe that realization "encourages" those "leaders" to act a bit more responsibly in their decision-making?

* Why don't they take their superior handheld product knowledge and apply to work at Palm?

Maybe they already have better careers and would never want to work for a company teetering two Nokia smartphones away from sudden bankruptcy?

They must lead sad, meaningless lives. I pity them. I pray for their souls...

Bwahahaha! Maybe you should pray for yourself instead? Drama Queens typically lead short, tragic lives.

Take care.


TVoR

RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
naio21 @ 6/14/2006 7:59:15 AM # Q
1. He said three years has passed between the launch timeline between the 600 and 700p. The timeline is actually two years and eight months. He was wrong.

Mr. Data,

You forgot the days, hours, seconds and milisseconds.

Your internal positronic timer doesn't seem to be doing well.

Please report to Mr. LaForge for immediate deactivation.

Captain Jean-Luc Picard

RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/15/2006 4:19:28 PM # Q
1. He said three years has passed between the launch timeline between the 600 and 700p. The timeline is actually two years and eight months. He was wrong.

Mr. Data,

You forgot the days, hours, seconds and milisseconds.

Your internal positronic timer doesn't seem to be doing well.

Please report to Mr. LaForge for immediate deactivation.

Captain Jean-Luc Picard

Bwahahaha!

(Or is this the first step of the HAL 2000's meltdown. Be careful - relyons can read lips. DAAAAAAIIIIIISSSSSYYYYYY...)


TVoR

Reply to this comment

He should have compared it with the 700W

SeldomVisitor @ 6/9/2006 4:21:49 PM # Q
.

RE: He should have compared it with the 700W
EdH @ 6/9/2006 9:40:40 PM # Q
You know, even if Walt had compared the Q to the 700w, he would have found a way to not give an MS product the nod by the end of the interview.

"So, Walt, you've used DRDOS, and here is Windows Vista. What do you think?"

"Well, Microsoft's new Windows Vista is sure packed with features, but I found it inherently more insecure than DRDOS, which has had exactly zero viruses written for it since 1995 compared with over 100,000 viruses today that plague Windows. I found the clock in Vista to be distracting as I tried to type my article, while the peaceful blink of the cursor in Word Perfect 5.0 was soothing, unobtrusive and always went exactly where you wanted it to go. It also lacked those distracting wavy red and green lines that Microsoft's word processing product put on the screen under those mispelt werds. And sentence fragments. I found DRDOS booted almost instantly, while Vista when through this comparatively long startup process. Microsoft has come a long way, but for the average consumer that just needs word processing, basic email needs and wants to play the occasional game of Tic-Tac-Toe on their computer, I highly recommend DRDOS."

RE: He should have compared it with the 700W
freakout @ 6/10/2006 10:33:41 PM # Q
^^ Amusing. But also a good point in favour of Palm shying away from going all-Windows; they can keep zealots on *both* sides happy!

This sig is a placeholder till I come up with something good
Reply to this comment

Like, duhhh

theog @ 6/9/2006 5:52:19 PM # Q
This was plain dumb... 700 and Q are two different products. They don't even have the same OS. Like, duhh....

Vote for John Kerry... best man for the job.
RE: Like, duhhh
Simony @ 6/12/2006 3:31:30 AM # Q
Maybe.

Mossberg is a mainstream reporter who publishes in one of the most prominent newspapers in the country. Obviously, he needs to be a little careful about his criticisms. What he has done is damned the Q with faint praise, which is about harshest criticism he can make in one of his columns.

The reality is that Mossberg has done to the Q what the Iceberg did to the Titanic.

Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their profits.

Reply to this comment

The voice of ridiculousness

Mauibro @ 6/10/2006 12:06:07 AM # Q
You keep on ripping Palm but these are the facts:

You ripped Palm for not innovating enough for years.
Their PDAs were lame.
Truth is they were ahead of the curve in seeing smartphones as the future, did its innovation there, while Hp and Dell wasted precious time and money on a market in PDAs that has maxed out.

You love your Sony. Gone. Why? Palm makes money.

The rest are following Palms lead again.
Even you know how lame the Q is.
Its just "pretty" and "cheap"
Wasnt that the criticism of Palm in the past?
The same naysayers NOW are making a case that this is the key to victory for the Q.

There is no doubt the Q will be popular.
It is moderately priced.
But it wont have Palms functionality, and Treo will remain the choice for those who demand the best.
Its a premium product, with a corresponding price.

Palm has already hinted at greater price point variety, possibly this year.
The 650 is better than the Q and similarly priced already in most places.
The Q will come in with a big splash, and hype and sell tons sure.

New treos will surely be released with different form factors and other functionality, PalmOS, WM, and soon a new OS.

You call Palm "greedy?"
Some business reality for you.
HP can afford to go cheap to gain share.
Sony can do 50 different form factors. And even they failed.
Palm must make money on mobile devices.
It will produce less expensive models, it has said so.
But to try to sell its most profitable mobile phone for 200 bucks when it owns the market with devices twice as expensive is just stupid.

They make ONE WM device period, and it is America's fastest selling WM PPC phone of all time.
Not one other PPC Phone, only the PalmOS 650 has outsold it since its release in the US.
We should all be so "stupid."

Before you "crown" them HP needs to catch the king.
While the Q will be successful, will it be more "profitable?"
Already I've seen many who were itching to get a Q back off on learning the limits of the MS "Smartphone" OS the Q uses.

You want "innovation?"
Variety of form factors?
Well they need to milk this winning form factor which is cost effective, while they are ahead in the game and people are snapping up their products, then they will have capital to expand their product range.

Thats not stupid, not greedy, it is saavy business.

This is business, and Palm continues to be profitable which is all that matters.

You think you are so smart and Palm is run by idiots, but if they tried to do all that you suggest they would be gone by now.


RE: The voice of Truth (Reason)
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/10/2006 1:13:28 AM # Q
You keep on ripping Palm but these are the facts:

Sadly, your "facts" have no connection to reality.

You ripped Palm for not innovating enough for years.
Their PDAs were lame.

Palm has not innovated in years. Their PDAs are lame. Handspring, Sony, HandEra, Garmin, Tapwave and Samsung are the PalmOS licensees that have innovated over the years. Palm merely parasitized those companies.

Truth is they were ahead of the curve in seeing smartphones as the future, did its innovation there, while Hp and Dell wasted precious time and money on a market in PDAs that has maxed out.

Wrong. Palm was clueless about "seeing smartphones as the future". The embarassingly inept Tungsten W showed precisely how hopeless Palm's design teams and management were. In case you didn't know (I assume you're just an insecure newbie), it was a desperate, small company called Handspring that did all of the "innovation" that Palm is still parasitizing.

You love your Sony. Gone. Why?

I could tell you but then I'd have to... you know...

Palm makes money.

Barely. The only reason they've managed to eke out some meagre profits in recent quarters is because the Treo 650/700 have not had any serious competition. Like the domestic car industry + their full-sized truck segment. Once the competition figures out the secret smartphone sauce it will be "game over" for Palm unless they can manage to get a naive company to buy them out (their ONLY chance to survive longterm).

The rest are following Palms lead again.

Correction: The rest are following HANDSPRING'S lead again. And they're getting closer every month.

Even you know how lame the Q is.
Its just "pretty" and "cheap"

If it's small/light/cheap/sexy, the average Joe will prefer it to the Treo bricks Palm is selling. Compared to the Samsung i500, the Treos are even more "lame". Ugly and expensive seem to be Palm's modus operandi these days.

Wasnt that the criticism of Palm in the past?
The same naysayers NOW are making a case that this is the key to victory for the Q.

??? Palm has been criticized for making its products cheap as in "poor quality", not as in "inexpensive".

There is no doubt the Q will be popular.
It is moderately priced.
But it wont have Palms functionality, and Treo will remain the choice for those who demand the best.
Its a premium product, with a corresponding price.

The Q may or may not succeed. The point is that it's possible to make smartphones that are smaller, lighter and better looking than the Treos, and Palm's competition is finally waking up. And remember: the average Joe that owns a Treo does not use the device to anywhere near its full potential. Most people use their Treos for basic PIM (contacts, schedule), email and maybe a couple of other apps/games. Do you think anyone with such basic smartphone needs will have a problem buying a device that significantly undercuts Treos in price? Why shoud an IT department deploy a fleet of $500 Treos if a $300 Motorola or Nokia does essentially the same job? To be honest, we're now getting to the point that many regular phones come with all the "smartphone" features most people really need. So if a "free" or "nearly free" phone is "close enough" to a Treo, what do you think will happen to Treo sales? Imagine built-in Microsoft "push" email on a small clamshell device with a big screen selling for less than $200. Available from several manufacturers in 2006. If Palm maintains its "optimistic" (gouging) pricing they will soon find themselves with boatloads of unsold inventory stuffing their channels. Palm's smartphone strategy is a deck of cards and failing to innovate on Handspring's Treo 600 design over the past 3 years is the equivalent of yanking out one of the bottom cards.

Palm has already hinted at greater price point variety, possibly this year.
The 650 is better than the Q and similarly priced already in most places.
The Q will come in with a big splash, and hype and sell tons sure.

Palm cannot survive without high margin Treos unless it's prepared to compete with the Big Boys by fielding a wider lineup. And the market for high margin smartphones is EXTREMELY vulnerable right now. The Treo 650/700 market could implode literally overnight if Nokia/Sony Ericsson/HTC/Motorola release a less expensive "Treo Killer". Unfortunately for Palm, this is the inevitable endgame to their 10 year run.

New treos will surely be released with different form factors and other functionality, PalmOS, WM, and soon a new OS.

But can Palm release well made, stylish, bug-free, feature-laden smartphones (that also work properly as PHONES) fast enough to compete with its competition's design cycles? Given the history and level of incompetence at Palm, I'd have to say the answer is a resounding "No". Palm needs to find a buyer with deep pockets ASAP.

You call Palm "greedy?"
Some business reality for you.
HP can afford to go cheap to gain share.
Sony can do 50 different form factors. And even they failed.
Palm must make money on mobile devices.
It will produce less expensive models, it has said so.
But to try to sell its most profitable mobile phone for 200 bucks when it owns the market with devices twice as expensive is just stupid.

No, stupid is basing your company's entire future on smartphones and then:
1) failing to regain control over the OS you need to differentiate your products from the competition and
2) failing to advance your original design in 3 YEARS, throwing away the 2 year head start on the competition that Handspring had handed to you on a silver platter in 2003.
Not THAT'S stupid.
No one expected Palm to release 10 different phones evey year. All they had to do was refine the Treo 600 into a smaller, lighter, better constructed, better-featured device and also release a small, sexy, phone-centric PalmOS device with a decent-sized screen. Unfortunately, Palm has failed to deliver the devices it needed in order to become a player in the handset world. Nokia and Sony Ericsson are about to do to Palm what Palm did to HandEra. Buh Bye!

They make ONE WM device period, and it is America's fastest selling WM PPC phone of all time.
Not one other PPC Phone, only the PalmOS 650 has outsold it since its release in the US.
We should all be so "stupid."

Again, you seem to not understand how price-sensitive phones are. Up until now, Palm has had no serious competition for some strange reason. Commoditization is coming. The Era of the Treo Dinosaurs is rapidly coming to an end. Evolution is a biotch™.

Before you "crown" them HP needs to catch the king.
While the Q will be successful, will it be more "profitable?"
Already I've seen many who were itching to get a Q back off on learning the limits of the MS "Smartphone" OS the Q uses.

Unless Palm slashes Treo pricing (thereby killing its profits), the upcoming wave of smartphones from the competition will accelerate Palm's downward spiral. Palm is swirling in the toilet bowl.

You want "innovation?"

Yes.

Variety of form factors?

Just 2 or 3 would be fine. To save money, Palm could even recycle current designs from HTC, etc.

Well they need to milk this winning form factor which is cost effective, while they are ahead in the game and people are snapping up their products, then they will have capital to expand their product range.

The Treo 600/650/700 cow ran dry a LONG time ago. The "milk" Palm is getting right now looks a lot like blood. Palm's blood.

Thats not stupid, not greedy, it is saavy business.

No, it's stupid. For a technology company to fail to innovate year after year after year is an act of suicide.

This is business, and Palm continues to be profitable which is all that matters.

Short-term TRIVIAL profits coming at the expense of long-term product planning is a poor business strategy. Of course, Palm hasn't had a coherent business strategy since 1999. Don't believe me? Just ask anyone who has ever actually worked for Palm.

You think you are so smart and Palm is run by idiots, but if they tried to do all that you suggest they would be gone by now.

If you knew anything about Palm's history you would know how HORRIBLY mismanaged the company has been over the years. It survived only because of 3 reasons:
1) Hawkins' original PDA was a brilliant idea that proved to be even more flexible than had initially been anticipated
2) Palm was the first PDA to reach a critical mass needed to produce a self-sustaining community of users
3) Palm made a TON of $$$ (billions) from the Palm III and V series and its IPO and bogus "split" shenanigans.


Try not to be such a hater, brah. You haoles are all the same.

Kama`aina

RE: The voice of ridiculousness
EdH @ 6/10/2006 9:24:43 AM # Q
Mauibro said:
The rest are following Palms lead again.

Don't you have to be out in front to lead?


Just the facts
ChiA @ 6/10/2006 9:53:25 AM # Q
Maulibro said:
You keep on ripping Palm but these are the facts...
Truth is they were ahead of the curve in seeing smartphones as the future, did its innovation there

Well you've neglected the fact that the Treo 600 was designed by Handspring and not Palm. Palm's answer to the smartphone at the time was the Tungsten W - Palm was lucky that they had the means to buy Handspring and its Treo 600 device. Every Treo since has been a mere evolution and improvement of the original 600 design so I don't think you can claim that Treos are Palm's innovation.

(There I go using the evolution word but seeing how the Treo 650 was crippled with it's mere 20MB of usable memory I don't think it's a candidate for intelligent design either :-) )

"All but the hard hearted man must be torn with pity for this pathetic dilemma of the rich man, who has to keep the poor man just stout enough to do the work and just thin enough to have to do it."
GK Chesterton - Utopia of Usurers, 1917

RE: The voice of ridiculousness
Rome @ 6/10/2006 11:35:11 AM # Q
Well put, Maulibro.

And for those of your who just want to buy a cheap smartphone, head over to Amazon.com and grab a Verizon Treo 650 for $39.99.

RE: The voice of ridiculousness
goat_fajitas @ 6/10/2006 11:51:01 AM # Q
"Well you've neglected the fact that the Treo 600 was designed by Handspring and not Palm. "

Dood, Handspring IS Palm. They were founded by the same people, split off after Palm decided to go with USR/3Ccom, and later merged back together... PAlm CEO is Handsprings CEO and the company is One again.

Also, very well put, Maulibro. YOU hit hte nail on the head. Let everyone bitch while Palm has yet another revord year, only to be topped by 20007 which will be even better.

And yes, a low and with internal antenna is coming in 2006, as well as a high end with internal antenna... both a bit slimmer than the current models.

RE: The voice of ridiculousness
ChiA @ 6/10/2006 1:23:06 PM # Q
The goat said
Dood, Handspring IS Palm. They were founded by the same people, split off after Palm decided to go with USR/3Ccom

You've touched on the point. The Treo 600 was created by people who found it necessary to leave Palm and create Handspring - they didn't have the confidence that the Palm owned by 3com was capable of creating such products.

I think the fact that Handspring, the smaller of the two companies, created three smartphones (Treo 180, 270/300 and 600) in the time it took Palm to create one (Tungsten W) speaks volumes of Palm's pace of change and innovation. It's unfortunate (but almost inevitable) that the larger Palm dragged the Handspring talent down to its slow level when they merged.

"All but the hard hearted man must be torn with pity for this pathetic dilemma of the rich man, who has to keep the poor man just stout enough to do the work and just thin enough to have to do it."
GK Chesterton - Utopia of Usurers, 1917

RE: The voice of ridiculousness
Mauibro @ 6/10/2006 1:26:34 PM # Q
EdH said:
Don't you have to be out in front to lead?

Name another PPC phone that outsells the treo?
Combine all the HP smartphones all the PPC phone flops, and the limited but cheap moto 200 series which actually sold somewhat, and ONE DEVICE the Treo 650, has made more money than them all combined.
Hp has been doing this for years, and Palm releases the ONE WM device on ONE NETWORK in ONE COUNTRY and it is embarressing how it is dominating that sector.
One can make a case for Rim, but we know those arent really that "Smart"

Yes Palm is the leader.
Every device with a keyboard is a wanna be "Treo" or "blackberry" killer.
Never heard of an "HP" killer. Why?

You gotta kill the king to take his crown



RE: The voice of Truth (Reason)
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/10/2006 1:31:34 PM # Q
You think you are so smart and Palm is run by idiots, but if they tried to do all that you suggest they would be gone by now.

you knew anything about Palm's history you would know how HORRIBLY mismanaged the company has been over the years. It survived only because of 3 reasons:
1) Hawkins' original PDA was a brilliant idea that proved to be even more flexible than had initially been anticipated
2) Palm was the first PDA to reach a critical mass needed to produce a self-sustaining community of users
3) Palm made a TON of $$$ (billions) from the Palm III and V series and its IPO and bogus "split" shenanigans.


Try not to be such a hater, brah. You haoles are all the same.

Kama`aina

RE: The voice of ridiculousness
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/10/2006 1:36:31 PM # Q
"Well you've neglected the fact that the Treo 600 was designed by Handspring and not Palm. "

Dood, Handspring IS Palm. They were founded by the same people, split off after Palm decided to go with USR/3Ccom, and later merged back together... PAlm CEO is Handsprings CEO and the company is One again.

Also, very well put, Maulibro. YOU hit hte nail on the head. Let everyone bitch while Palm has yet another revord year, only to be topped by 20007 which will be even better.

And yes, a low and with internal antenna is coming in 2006, as well as a high end with internal antenna... both a bit slimmer than the current models.

"Dood", you really need to stay in school. People as clueless as you are really not even worth debating.

TVoR


RE: The voice of Truth (Reason)
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/10/2006 1:39:46 PM # Q
Well you've neglected the fact that the Treo 600 was designed by Handspring and not Palm. Palm's answer to the smartphone at the time was the Tungsten W - Palm was lucky that they had the means to buy Handspring and its Treo 600 device. Every Treo since has been a mere evolution and improvement of the original 600 design so I don't think you can claim that Treos are Palm's innovation.

Let's not go bringing a few FACTS into this debate, now...

The "brilliant" Tungsten is exactly the kind of crap that Palm usually "innovates". Yuck.

TVoR

RE: The voice of ridiculousness
goat_fajitas @ 6/10/2006 6:32:07 PM # Q
""Dood", you really need to stay in school. People as clueless as you are really not even worth debating."

OK, you go from debating your point, to to a useless, and baseless insult. You should really change your screen name, it doesnt fit. All of your points are one sided, and poorly thought out.

Obvoisly you hate Palm for whatever reason, so just don't buy one. I am sure you never would anyhow, but save the hate... Too much of that in the world already to have to propagate it over a smartphone FFS. Talk about ridiculous. LOL

RE: The voice of Intelligence
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/10/2006 7:02:11 PM # Q
OK, you go from debating your point, to to a useless, and baseless insult. You should really change your screen name, it doesnt fit. All of your points are one sided, and poorly thought out.

I'm sorry if I made you cry, "Dood". Maybe you should run back to your Mommy and breastfeed some more.

Meanwhile, back to the previous posts: if you are capable of refuting ANYTHING I've said here, please enlighten us. On the other hand, if you're unable to formulate a cogent response, please S T F U and spare us from your tripe.

TVoR

RE: The voice of ridiculousness
Mauibro @ 6/10/2006 7:46:30 PM # Q
TVoR, nice try with the lingo.
Not "haole" here, try "popolo" if you got the real vocabulary down.
Kama'aina popolo raised in Hawaii.

Back to topic.
You say "I" dont Know Palms history?
My man, who runs Palm?
The people who started the company.
Oh "Handspring" came up with the Treo?
Who is Handspring?
The same people who run Palm today.

Palm or Handspring? The companies are for all intents merged.
Just semantics and you know it.
Fact is the people who run Palm today aren't even the people who you referred to who came out with the TungW. Those people are gone.

Todays Palm are the same Folks who created the V, and the Treo.
They know what they are doing.



RE: The voice of ridiculousness
Mauibro @ 6/10/2006 8:12:56 PM # Q

Short-term TRIVIAL profits coming at the expense of long-term product planning is a poor business strategy. Of course, Palm hasn't had a coherent business strategy since 1999.
Buying Handspring

Returning control to the geniuses who started the company.

Alocating resources and money to the Smartphone market, taking an early lead.

The most brilliant strategy:
After failing in an attempt to buy back Palm Os, they cleverly buy back all rights to the name "Palm." You mark my words, they will leverage the name by calling their new OS "PalmOS' and ACCESS cant do jack squat about it. As Garnet dies, there will be two Linux based OS' competing for the legacy of Palm Os. Both will run legacy apps.(styletap shows Palm can do it)
Access Linux cannot even claim to be PalmOS. Palms Linux OS will in Fact be the only PalmOs.
No more royalties, control of its own backwards compatable OS that Palm alone can call PalmOS!!
They will have in fact stole back everything of value that Access bought, for a mere fraction of the cost.

But you my friend keep on ranting without even knowing the end game that is well underway.
You keep whining about there being no Cobalt, and think Palm is satisfied with the limitations of Garnet.
That never was the case.

Palm is making big profits of of its Treos while everyone else attempts to play catch up.
They have successfully associated "Treo" as THE name in smartphones.
Even release WM Treos for a cash boost.

Behind the scenes, they are doing there own Linux OS.
They know handhelds like nobody else.
Heck they hard to fix WM for the Treo.
Now they get to once again build its OS they way they want with all of todays tech in mind.
You are right Garnet is old and hacked to death.
It wasnt designed for todays tech.

Yet one can argue it its still better than WM on the same device (treo700)

Palm has hacked WM and improved it.
Palm has been hacking a decade old system from Palmsource to death.

Now Palm is regaining control of hardware and software, right about the time when Win Mob is catching up.

Think about it,
Palm does WM better than HP, still makes the best smart-phone on earth with Garnet, can you imagines what they can do with a Linux core?

Palm made hideous mistakes when the braintrust left.
But since they have been back they have made moves that are simply brilliant.
As we see those Linux devices roll out with the new PalmOS, only then will people see how truly brilliant this strategy was.

Business strategy?
This will be in the curriculum in business classes everywhere.


RE: The voice of ridiculousness
Mauibro @ 6/10/2006 8:12:56 PM # Q

Short-term TRIVIAL profits coming at the expense of long-term product planning is a poor business strategy. Of course, Palm hasn't had a coherent business strategy since 1999.
Buying Handspring

Returning control to the geniuses who started the company.

Alocating resources and money to the Smartphone market, taking an early lead.

The most brilliant strategy:
After failing in an attempt to buy back Palm Os, they cleverly buy back all rights to the name "Palm." You mark my words, they will leverage the name by calling their new OS "PalmOS' and ACCESS cant do jack squat about it. As Garnet dies, there will be two Linux based OS' competing for the legacy of Palm Os. Both will run legacy apps.(styletap shows Palm can do it)
Access Linux cannot even claim to be PalmOS. Palms Linux OS will in Fact be the only PalmOs.
No more royalties, control of its own backwards compatable OS that Palm alone can call PalmOS!!
They will have in fact stole back everything of value that Access bought, for a mere fraction of the cost.

But you my friend keep on ranting without even knowing the end game that is well underway.
You keep whining about there being no Cobalt, and think Palm is satisfied with the limitations of Garnet.
That never was the case.

Palm is making big profits of of its Treos while everyone else attempts to play catch up.
They have successfully associated "Treo" as THE name in smartphones.
Even release WM Treos for a cash boost.

Behind the scenes, they are doing there own Linux OS.
They know handhelds like nobody else.
Heck they hard to fix WM for the Treo.
Now they get to once again build its OS they way they want with all of todays tech in mind.
You are right Garnet is old and hacked to death.
It wasnt designed for todays tech.

Yet one can argue it its still better than WM on the same device (treo700)

Palm has hacked WM and improved it.
Palm has been hacking a decade old system from Palmsource to death.

Now Palm is regaining control of hardware and software, right about the time when Win Mob is catching up.

Think about it,
Palm does WM better than HP, still makes the best smart-phone on earth with Garnet, can you imagines what they can do with a Linux core?

Palm made hideous mistakes when the braintrust left.
But since they have been back they have made moves that are simply brilliant.
As we see those Linux devices roll out with the new PalmOS, only then will people see how truly brilliant this strategy was.

Business strategy?
This will be in the curriculum in business classes everywhere.


RE: The voice of ridiculousness
goat_fajitas @ 6/10/2006 9:08:17 PM # Q
Ahh... I just love the internet. You can always count on it to get slapped in the face with some of the most narrow mined crap humanity has to offer.

TVoR you are a first class ass, and a waste of skin. Good luck with your life.

I am out, and off to better things.

RE: The akamai Voice of Sensitivity & Kindness (TVoR)
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/10/2006 9:39:01 PM # Q
TVoR, nice try with the lingo.
Not "haole" here, try "popolo" if you got the real vocabulary down.
Kama'aina popolo raised in Hawaii.

Aight.

Back to topic.
You say "I" dont Know Palms history?
My man, who runs Palm?
The people who started the company.
Oh "Handspring" came up with the Treo?
Who is Handspring?
The same people who run Palm today.

"My man", the Handspring crew merely inherited the bridge of the Titanic a few seconds before impact. They're currently busy rearranging the deck chairs and cashing in stocks.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/it?s=PALM

Palm or Handspring? The companies are for all intents merged.
Just semantics and you know it.
Fact is the people who run Palm today aren't even the people who you referred to who came out with the TungW. Those people are gone.

Todays Palm are the same Folks who created the V, and the Treo.
They know what they are doing.

Colligan & Co have got bupkis, Bubba. They're just trying to milk a dried up cow for as long as they can and hope some clueless company will soon come along and buy them out (PalmSource-style). Palm lacks the codemonkeys and time to make PalmLinux. Their current dual-OS "strategy" is simply a stalling tactic.

Wake up, brah. Island Bois are usually smarter than you seem to be.

RE: The voice of Edumacation
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/10/2006 10:04:54 PM # Q
>>>Short-term TRIVIAL profits coming at the expense of long-term product planning is a poor business strategy. Of course, Palm hasn't had a coherent business strategy since 1999.
Buying Handspring

Returning control to the geniuses who started the company.

Come on, brah. They're not geniuses. Hawkins is a smart guy and a visionary, but let's not get crazy. Dubinsky and Colligan are a couple of leeches.

Alocating resources and money to the Smartphone market, taking an early lead.

Guess again. Palm was given the Treo 600 design (already SHIPPING!) on a silver platter by Handspring. The Treo 650 and 700p are an embarassment. Is that all the "innovation" Palm has to show for itself after 3 YEARS??? Pathetic.

The most brilliant strategy:
After failing in an attempt to buy back Palm Os, they cleverly buy back all rights to the name "Palm." You mark my words, they will leverage the name by calling their new OS "PalmOS' and ACCESS cant do jack squat about it. As Garnet dies, there will be two Linux based OS' competing for the legacy of Palm Os. Both will run legacy apps.(styletap shows Palm can do it)
Access Linux cannot even claim to be PalmOS. Palms Linux OS will in Fact be the only PalmOs.
No more royalties, control of its own backwards compatable OS that Palm alone can call PalmOS!!
They will have in fact stole back everything of value that Access bought, for a mere fraction of the cost.

You might want to check your sequence of events there, brah. The $30 million was floated BEFORE the Access deal went down. Palm even created a new "poison pill" contract with PalmSource to scare other companies off from trying to buy PalmSource. Palm was expecting to actually merge with PalmSource later and would then have got the money back for doing nothing. Slick. Very slick. Only problem is Access went and fcuked everything up...

But you my friend keep on ranting without even knowing the end game that is well underway.
You keep whining about there being no Cobalt, and think Palm is satisfied with the limitations of Garnet.
That never was the case.

"My friend", I've been saying the end game has started for a while now. Losing PalmOS to Access = the death of the platform. Cobalt was pure sh!te, a stupid attempt to reinvent the wheel derailed by dumba$$ Holy Be Engineers more concerned with writing "pretty code" than they were with meeting actual deadlines and shipping a finished product on time. My ex-Be Biotches at PalmSource managed to destroy a second company in no time flat. Dumba$$ Gassée must be laughing. As he counts his millions.

Palm is making big profits of of its Treos while everyone else attempts to play catch up.
They have successfully associated "Treo" as THE name in smartphones.
Even release WM Treos for a cash boost.

Palm is making SMALL profits. The Palm V/VX and the bogus IPOs and bogus "split" made BIG profits. Smoke & mirrors, brah.

Book 'em, Dano. Murder One!

Behind the scenes, they are doing there own Linux OS.
They know handhelds like nobody else.
Heck they hard to fix WM for the Treo.
Now they get to once again build its OS they way they want with all of todays tech in mind.
You are right Garnet is old and hacked to death.
It wasnt designed for todays tech.

HandEra knew handhelds. Tapwave knew handhelds. Sony knew handhelds. Handspring knew handhelds. Palm knows bupkis. Palm is a MARKETING company - not an engineering company - and it shows.

Yet one can argue it its still better than WM on the same device (treo700)

Palm has hacked WM and improved it.
Palm has been hacking a decade old system from Palmsource to death.

Now Palm is regaining control of hardware and software, right about the time when Win Mob is catching up.

Think about it,
Palm does WM better than HP, still makes the best smart-phone on earth with Garnet, can you imagines what they can do with a Linux core?

Palm made hideous mistakes when the braintrust left.
But since they have been back they have made moves that are simply brilliant.
As we see those Linux devices roll out with the new PalmOS, only then will people see how truly brilliant this strategy was.

Business strategy?
This will be in the curriculum in business classes everywhere.

What are you smoking, brah? Jamaican?

Aight.


TVoR


RE: The voice of ridiculousness
freakout @ 6/10/2006 10:56:16 PM # Q
Mauibro mate, your confidence is inspiring. I think you make a good point with how cheap the 650 is now; it's still a better smartphone that most of it's competition and you can now get it for the price of try-hards like the Q.

It also gives me hope that Palm will be able to retain one of the 650's best features, the gorgeous screen, on the (alleged) Lowrider.

This sig is a placeholder till I come up with something good

RE: The voice of ridiculousness
Mauibro @ 6/11/2006 12:56:00 AM # Q
>HandEra knew handhelds.
Gone, so much for what they know.

>Tapwave knew handhelds.
Gone, stupid attempt to begin with.

>Sony knew handhelds.
Bwahaha, Big bad Sony, supposed to mop the floor with Palm. They had the best opportunity and an idiotic strategy.
They gave you your 250 different form factors alright, and couldn't make money as a result. But they did do plenty of work for Palm who sat back and actually made money off of what Sony did get right.
All the money in the world and Palm still beat Sony.

>Handspring knew handhelds. Palm knows bupkis.
Correct that Handsping did know Handhelds,
Those people created the Palm III, PalmV, and the Treo line.
The most successful handhelds the world has ever known. They actually got WM right in the only WM device they ever made. PPC OEMs are scrambling to imitate it.
Yes the folks at Handspring knew handheld's like nobody else on the planet.

I know it hurts your argument but a little reminder-
Those people ARE Palm.
Everybody here but you seem to be capable of grasping that simple fact.

So don't argue with an Island Boy about something we know all too well around here because we are surrounded by em,
"Palms"


RE: The voice of ridiculousness
Simony @ 6/11/2006 3:48:20 AM # Q
Yes, the Propagandists are going crazy again, because their much-hyped 'great white hope' doesn't stack up too well against what little old Palm has to offer.

It may get worse. Quarterly earnings reporting season is nearly here again. We might see some meaningful sales data on the forlorn 700w this time. Be advised: if the the 700w sales figures are as bad as some say, the Propagandists will go POSTAL.

Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their profits.

RE: The voice of ridiculousness
EdH @ 6/11/2006 9:15:42 AM # Q
Mauibro said:
Combine all the HP smartphones all the PPC phone flops, and the limited but cheap moto 200 series which actually sold somewhat, and ONE DEVICE the Treo 650, has made more money than them all combined.
Hp has been doing this for years, and Palm releases the ONE WM device on ONE NETWORK in ONE COUNTRY and it is embarressing how it is dominating that sector.
One can make a case for Rim, but we know those arent really that "Smart"

Yes Palm is the leader.

Wow. You sound like Carl Yankowski. You quote the past quite a bit. To be sure, the Treo 600/650 has been very successful but the past is the past. If palm were so confident in their OS and design, they wouldn't have added Windows Mobile to their stable, both in the US and coming this year to Europe. What is funny is as I type this, PIC has a banner ad at the top for the 700p. :-)

The key difference between you and Yankowski is when he was bragging about Palm's past and being assured of its future, he was at the peak (he didn't know that) where the runup had been steep and HUGE, they were at 80%+ share and it seemed Palm could do no wrong. Now, 5-6 years later, you are making the same ridiculious statements but it is after Palm has jumped off of the ski slope and has share in the 20-30% range world wide and has one line paying the bills. Microsoft, meanwhile, continues to release updated operating systems every 18 months or so and HTC keeps belting out well designed products, both in Smartphone and Pocket PC form, sold by nearly every major carrier on the planet. Forget HP. Gone are the days of a single OEM manufacturer reigning supreme. It is the age of the carrier, and devices like the HTC Wizard are being sold by a dozen different carriers under a dozen different names, and the truth is, you have no clue how successful those devices are because you are living in 2001 when there were only 4 major players and it was easy to get market share data. Now there are over 40 players (the carriers) and they don't share a whole lot of data with market researchers. Their bragging rights lay in their number of customers, not the sales of a particluar no-name device they have slapped their logo on.

RE: The voice of ridiculousness
AdamaDBrown @ 6/11/2006 7:03:45 PM # Q
And yes, a low and with internal antenna is coming in 2006, as well as a high end with internal antenna... both a bit slimmer than the current models.

Everything you just said is strictly rumor, much of it completely unfounded. All we really know is that there are two more Treos coming out this year, at least one of which will be GSM and Windows based.

Mauibro wrote:
Hp has been doing this for years, and Palm releases the ONE WM device on ONE NETWORK in ONE COUNTRY and it is embarressing how it is dominating that sector.

Huh? HP hasn't been releasing phones for years, they've had TWo phone devices released, both in the last year or so. And you do realize that the Treo 700w only constitutes about 5% of all PPC phone sales, right? Perhaps, if you count the different brandings of HTC's devices as different models, it might be the top selling single unit, but 5% isn't exactly dominating.

Palm has hacked WM and improved it.

What do you think Palm has "hacked" about Windows? The 700w is standard WM5 with a couple of Today screen plugins and some additions to the phone app--which is the licensee's perogative anyway.

>HandEra knew handhelds.
Gone, so much for what they know.

In HandEra's defense, they're "gone" because they had no money, no name recognition, no marketing, no clout with the OS owner, and they still managed to produce what was arguably the best Palm OS hardware available, even years afterwards. Remember that they had multi-gig storage, WiFi, cellular modems, etcetera YEARS before Palm Inc. ever even realized these things existed. Their inability to make an inroad had more to do with marketing than it did with technology--they simply couldn't get noticed on a large enough scale, despite their cult following in the enterprise market.

Simony wrote:
We might see some meaningful sales data on the forlorn 700w this time.

Actually, we already have sales figures for the 700w. For the first three months of the year (bearing in mind that availability was limited for the first couple of weeks), it constituted about 20% of Palm's Treo sales, meaning roughly 100,000 units. That's really quite good, considering that it's only available on one carrier.

RE: The voice of ridiculousness
Mauibro @ 6/11/2006 11:35:36 PM # Q
EdH Said:
Wow. You sound like Carl Yankowski. You quote the past quite a bit

Quite to the contrary pal, the past?
The number one smatrtphone name is Treo. Now. Today.
Palm makes it.

Past? Let me pass you a mirror.
"Yankowski?" LOL that's funny.

Yeah somebody lives in the past alright. Aint me.
You and TVor talk Yankowski, TungW, and Nagel and "I'M" living in the past? Thats hilarious.

Whats even funnier is that Tvor praises "Handspring" and Hawkins, while failing to grasp that Palm today is Handspring with money.

To be sure, the Treo 600/650 has been very successful but the past is the past.

It was the top selling smartphone in May. Yes it was a whole 12 days ago so I guess I am talking about the past. LOL.

If palm were so confident in their OS and design, they wouldn't have added Windows Mobile to their stable, both in the US and coming this year to Europe. What is funny is as I type this, PIC has a banner ad at the top for the 700p. :-)

I don't knout I kinda figure they like to make more money. 6 figure sales for the W translates to millions over a few months, using essentially the same hardware, working with MS on the OS, massive marketing campaign financed by Verizon who begged for the Treo "design" on WM.
Whats not to love about that?

But the OS is not "theirs" in either case.
I doubt even they relish the tweaks the must maKe to garnet to do more than it was designed to do.
Soon the new OS will once again "theirs" and Garnet and WM are just a bridge.

I state again.
Look at what they have done with Garnet.
On basically the same hardware, the "p" gets similar or better reviews than the "W" on the Treo 700.
But Garnet remains limited nevertheless.
Now what are these same folks able to do with a Linux core??

Continuing to provide a WM Treo on the same hardware as a Linux based PalmOS would serve to make crystal clear how flawed WM is.
Additionally, by positioning itself as OS neutral, Palm has gained insight on the future of WM. Now which company is being taken advantage of?

I tell you all Palms not primarily looking to depend on either WM or Access.

In the long term the partnership with MS will be the smartest play by Palm yet. Palm is making money, MS believes as do the "experts" that Palm has resigned itself to the fact that WM is the future.
Everyone bashed palm for "sleeping with the enemy."
Truth is the helpless seeming girl has a knifes under the pillow.
Watch when the new OS roles out MS will stop playing house with Palm real quick.

Too late, MS has helped finance a superior OS owned by Palm.

RE: The voice of ridiculousness - TREOs that are coming THIS year
SeldomVisitor @ 6/12/2006 7:22:12 AM # Q
> ...All we really know is that there are two more Treos
> coming out this year, at least one of which will be GSM and
> Windows based...

Actually we no longer "know" even that much.

First, the CEO of PALM had that scripted clarification on what he meant by "4 new TREOs coming". There was some sort of reason PALM thought that clarification was necessary - we do not know what that reason was but there certainly was SOME reason it literally was written into his scripted words.

Second, we have JP Morgan's "analyst" saying VERY loaded words ala "maybe they're gonna be late with their cheap model":

-- http://finance.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=FN&board=1600640725&tid=palm&sid=1600640725&action=m&mid=248001

So we'll just have to wait and see, eh?

[the GSM model is "known" to be coming strictly because some Microsoft guy said it was, I believe, not due to anything at ALL that PALM has said overtly]

RE: The voice of ridiculousness
DogBite @ 6/13/2006 11:15:52 PM # Q
Who, or what, in the world is this VoR character. I have never heard such misguided, ill-informed crap in my life. You are one of those blowh*rds that loves to hear himself talk. The problem is you eventually start to like the taste of your own sh!t. At some point, your mommy shoud have given you a swift kick in the a$$ and made you shut your pie hole. You need to bow out and let some of these other enlightned and informed (really informed) have the forum back. What an immature idiot. You must work in rubber room. How in the he!! do you tolerate yourself!
Reply to this comment

Wow......?

kaiden1 @ 6/10/2006 1:43:49 AM # Q
I have seen over the years lots and lots of predictions.

We really need to wait to see what happens. The fact is that there are markets for cheap things and markets for expensive things. Sometimes, we choose to spend more money on an item simply because it makes us feel better about our purchase whether it is practical or not. Why do you people spend $120 for a pair of sunglasses? They might get something better for twenty bucks at the drug store and yet I know lots of people that have and still do spend lots of money on sunglasses? Who are we to say anything? That is whats so good about free enterprise and an open market. You've heard the old addage "one mans treasure is another mans junk?" We have all spent more money on things here and there than we really needed too, but we had the choice, and it didn't hurt anything did it. There are so many people and they all think so differently from one another. We can simply choose for ourselves and that is all that we can do. Let's just be glad that we have choice and not 5 versions of the same thing! ;)

RE: Wow......?
ChiA @ 6/11/2006 7:45:58 AM # Q
kaiden1 said
We have all spent more money on things here and there than we really needed too, but we had the choice, and it didn't hurt anything did it
?

This might have been the last thing said at the Enron board meeting before all the brown stuff hit the fan.

Reply to this comment

POS vs WM war over - POS lost.

Surur @ 6/11/2006 7:25:07 PM # Q
It seems WM has reached the tipping point, from where we are likely to see explosive growth. It has huge industry-wide acceptance amongst ODM's, and consumers outside USA are quite happy to buy these devices. Yes, its still struggling against Symbian, and may for the next decade. Be that as it may- the war agasint POS is over.

I'll leave you with some articles which underlines the fact.

HTC to ship 10-15m Smart, PDA phones in 2006
Taiwan's High Tech Computer Corp. (HTC), the world's largest Windows-based smartphone maker, is expected to challenge an annual shipment goal of 10 million to 15 million units this year, up 60 percent to 100 percent from last year.

www.gov.tw/TaiwanHeadlines/index.jsp?categid=9&recordid=94330" rel=nofollow target="_new">http://english.www.gov.tw/TaiwanHeadlines/index.jsp?categid=9&recordid=94330

NTT DoCoMo contracts HTC to supply 3G phones
The Japan's 3G telecom-service provider NTT DoCoMo will contract HTC Corp., a leading Taiwanese supplier of handheld gadgets, to supply third-generation (3G) mobile phones, marking the first 3G-handset order from a Japanese service firm to a Taiwanese supplier.

The two companies co-announced the deal on Monday. However, they did not disclose the size of the order.

Taiwanese industry watchers estimated the order is lucrative enough to help boost HTC's revenue to the NT$100 billion (US$3.1 billion at US$1:NT$32) mark throughout this year from 2005's NT$72.7 billion (US$2.2 billion). NTT DoCoMo is currently Japan's No.1 provider of 3G-telecom service, already signing up 50 million subscribers in Japan.

HTC will begin to ship the phones, which are built based on NTT DoCoMo's FOMA specification and WindowsMobile 5.0 OS platform, in the second half this year.


The order has led to optimistic forecasts by foreign institutional investors that HTC will soon win Apple's order for iPod mobile phones. Some of the investors have even forecast the company's share price to soar to NT$1,000 (US$31.2) a unit, now that JP Morgan, Merrill Lynch and Goldman Sachs have recently revised upward target price to NT$900 (US$28).

Industry watchers pointed out that Japan's No. 2 3G-service provider, KDDI Corp. (au), would likely follow suit to place orders with HTC for 3G phones.

Source:CENS(2006/01/24 12:24:52)

www.gov.tw/TaiwanHeadlines/index.jsp?categid=9&recordid=90832" rel=nofollow target="_new">http://english.www.gov.tw/TaiwanHeadlines/index.jsp?categid=9&recordid=90832

HTC Taiwan's most profitable listed firm
Thanks to the injection of foreign-exchange earnings, HTC Corp. registered NT$6.698 billion (US$199.34 million at US$1:NT$33.6) in after-tax earnings, or NT$18.96 (US$0.56) in earnings per share, on sales of NT$45.244 billion (US$1.34 billion) in the first three quarters of this year, helping HTC consolidate its position as Taiwan's most profitable listed firm.

The world's largest supplier of smartphones, HTC posted NT$16.556 billion (US$492.73 million) in sales in the third quarter of this year, up 7.2 percent from the preceding quarter's NT$15.437 billion (US$459.43 million). The company registered NT$2.642 billion (US$78.63 million) in after-tax earnings in the third quarter of this year, up 251 percent year-on-year.

HTC, founded in May 1997, specializes in designing and manufacturing world-class mobile computing and communication solutions for OEM and ODM (original equipment/design manufacturer) customers.

Chosen by Microsoft as a hardware platform development partner for the Windows CE operating system, HTC has built up an exceptionally strong engineering team with two main units—the IA (information appliance) engineering division and the WM (wireless mobile) engineering division.

HTC said it has received positive responses from its large customers for its CDMA, EVDO, and third-generation cellphones launched in the middle of this year. Demand for these new devices is increasing, which will help boost the company's sales in the months to come.

In addition, HTC has successfully tapped the European telecom-operator market by supplying products to such big names as Vodafone, Orange, mm02 and T-Mobile. The company noted it began shipping products to Vodafone in the beginning of the third quarter.

HTC said it saw quarterly earnings hit a historic high of NT$7.48 (0.22) in the third quarter of this year, surpassing the first quarter's NT$5.55 (US$0.165) and the second quarter's NT$5.99 (US$0.17).

Thanks to its expanding customer base and product lines, the company's smartphones and PDA (personal digital assistant) phones have been warmly welcomed by customers around the world.

The company predicted it would hit another sales peak in the fourth quarter because it has acquired big-ticket orders from Hewlett Packard of the U.S. and Siemens of Germany. An institutional investor estimated HTC would be able to achieve an EPS of NT$25 (US$0.74) to NT$30 (US$0.89) this year.

www.gov.tw/TaiwanHeadlines/index.jsp?categid=9&recordid=88019" rel=nofollow target="_new">http://english.www.gov.tw/TaiwanHeadlines/index.jsp?categid=9&recordid=88019

Dopod chairman to run new VIA venture

Commercial Times, June 9; Steve Shen, DigiTimes.com [Friday 9 June 2006]
Taiwan-based chipmaker VIA Technologies has ventured into digital content services business with the establishment of a subsidiary, VIA OnDemand, which will offer content including music, video and games, to PC systems, household multimedia centers, Windows Mobile-based smartphones and PDAs, and other handheld devices, according to a Chinese-language Commercial Times report.

VIA OnDemand is scheduled to go online by the end of September of this year and its software can be installed on related system products built by VIA Technologies or OEM devices built by High Tech Computer (HTC), said VIA OnDemand CEO Timothy Chen, the paper stated.

Chen, a nephew of VIA and HTC chairman Cher Wang, said he is also serving as chairman of smartphone vendor Dopod.
http://www.digitimes.com/systems/a20060609PB202.html

Nvidia embraces Windows Mobile
By David Ciccone, posted Wednesday, Jun. 7th, 2006

New NVIDIA MobileMedia Platform Brings 3D, Video and High-Definition Audio Support to a New Wave of Mobile Devices
COMPUTEX 2006 - TAIPEI, TAIWAN - JUNE 7, 2006 -NVIDIA Corporation (Nasdaq: NVDA), the worldwide leader in programmable graphics processor technologies, today announced the availability of its MobileMedia Platform for handheld devices running Windows Mobile 5.0.

Designed to enable handheld manufacturers to rapidly design and release digital, media-rich devices with Windows Mobile 5.0, the NVIDIA MobileMedia Platform is a complete development kit containing all of the hardware and software components, with examples for delivering everything from smooth Digital TV and video, to incredible 3D graphics for gaming, to high fidelity audio.

“Handheld phones today offer great promise as digital, media-rich devices, however the broad range of platforms and standards available to manufacturers has made the development of advanced handsets that deliver compelling content, a daunting and time-prohibitive task,” said Philip Carmack, senior vice president of handheld GPUs at NVIDIA. “NVIDIA MobileMedia Platform is the definitive solution to this problem. This new product represents a complete solution for device manufacturers, delivering an easy-to-integrate, high-performing multimedia platform for handhelds using the Windows Mobile 5.0 operating system.”

“Windows Mobile 5.0 offers a flexible and customizable platform that delivers the most dynamic, open environment for a wide range of digital media, such as 3D gaming, music and digital TV, with unique access to business productivity tools like Office, e-mail and Web browsers,” said Jason Lim, Regional Director, Asia Pacific and Japan, Windows Mobile and Embedded Devices Division, Microsoft Corporation. “Microsoft recognizes that users want devices that offer a robust combination of productivity and lifestyle applications, and with the NVIDIA MobileMedia Platform, device makers will now be able to easily build media-rich Windows Mobile 5.0 powered devices that truly enhance the mobile lifestyle.”

A number of devices based on the NVIDIA MobileMedia Platform for Windows Mobile 5.0 have already been announced, including products from Samsung, HTC / Modeo, and ReignComm. In addition, NVIDIA is working closely with Intel and Freescale on reference designs for Windows Mobile 5.0 devices which are in development and will be announced later this year.

For more information on the NVIDIA MobileMedia platform for Windows Mobile 5.0 handheld devices, please visit: http://www.nvidia.com/object/mobilemedia_platform.html

NVIDIA Corporation

http://mobilitytoday.com/news/006577/nvidia_windows_mobile

HTC may team up with telecom operators or chipmakers for future growth, say sources

Jun 05, 2006

High Tech Computer (HTC) may announce plans to team up with either foreign telecom operators or handset chip suppliers, according to market sources. Details of HTC's plans are to be revealed at a company press conference to be held at the Taiwan Stock Exchange (TSE) on June 2, according to HTC.

NTT DoCoMo, Softbank, Microsoft, Intel and Qualcomm have been pointed out as potential partners for HTC, market sources noted. However, a tie-up with Microsoft is considered as the most probable since HTC is the most important partner for Microsoft's Windows Mobile platform, the sources added.

A June 2 report of the Chinese-language Economic Daily News (EDN) said that Japan-based Softbank is likely to acquire a certain stake in HTC and consequently will hold a seat on HTC's board of directors.

http://www.emsnow.com/npps/story.cfm?id=19647

Some more WM news you never read.

http://www.digitimes.com/Tornado/V4/SearchEnd.asp

Some pics and specs from computex of the next wave of WM devices. Its going to the flood that washes POS away, and start to erode the Symbian mountain.

http://www.mobile-review.com/exhibition/image/2006/computex/new-models/3807.jpg

• Asus MyPal A639 (Pocket PC): Intel XScale 416MHz processor, 64MB RAM, [B]1GB ROM, GPS (SiRFstar III), 802.11b/g Wi-Fi,[/B] Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR, a QVGA (240 x 320) TFT-LCD, Windows Mobile 5.0, 122mm x 73.2mm x 18.8mm (19.46mm).

http://www.mobile-review.com/exhibition/image/2006/computex/new-models/3953.jpg

• Mio PT200 (Pocket PC / Portable Media Device): 64MB RAM, 64MB ROM, [B]20GB integrated HDD, a DVB-T receiver, a 3.7" VGA (640 x 480) TFT-LCD[/B], an SDIO/SD/MMC slot, infrared, 2400mAh battery, Windows Mobile 5.0, 148.8mm x 88.3mm x 33.7mm.

http://www.mobile-review.com/exhibition/image/2006/computex/new-models/3814.jpg

• E-TEN M600+ (Pocket PC Phone Edition): Samsung S3C2440 400MHz processor, 64MB RAM, [B]256MB ROM,[/B] quad-band GSM/GPRS support, 802.11b Wi-Fi, Bluetooth 2.0, a [B]2.0-megapixel camera[/B], a 2.8" QVGA (240 x 320) TFT-LCD, an SDIO/SD/MMC slot, 1400mAh battery, Windows Mobile 5.0, 111.7mm x 60.7mm x 22mm.

http://www.mobile-review.com/exhibition/image/2006/computex/new-models/3784.jpg

• OKWAP K728 (Smartphone): Samsung S3C2442A 400MHz processor, 64MB RAM, 128MB ROM, tri-band GSM/GPRS support, [B]Bluetooth 2.0 (A2DP included), a 2.0-megapixel camera[/B], a miniSD slot, a 176 x 220 display, a slide-out numeric keypad, [B]a touch-screen panel, an FM radio tuner[/B], Windows Mobile 5.0 [B](Smartphone,[/B] MSFP included), 93.5mm x 46mm x 24.5mm, 107.8g, RRP below US$300. (Smartphone OS with touch screen)

http://www.mobile-review.com/exhibition/image/2006/computex/new-models/3792.jpg
http://www.mobile-review.com/exhibition/image/2006/computex/new-models/3793.jpg

• OKWAP K868 (Pocket PC Phone Edition): Intel PXA270 416MHz processor, 64MB RAM, 128MB ROM, tri-band GSM/GPRS support, [B]Bluetooth 2.0 (A2DP included), [/B] USB, a [B]2.0-megapixel camera[/B], an SDIO/SD/MMC slot, a 2.4" QVGA (240 x 320) TFT-LCD, [B]OCR/BCR/QR 2D barcode support[/B], Windows Mobile 5.0 (MSFP included), 106mm x 51mm x 18.2mm, 100g.

http://www.mobile-review.com/exhibition/image/2006/computex/new-models/3765.jpg

• Lite-On Phoenix 2 (Pocket PC Phone Edition): Intel PXA270 520MHz processor, 64MB RAM, 128MB ROM, tri-band GSM/GPRS support, 802.11b Wi-Fi, Bluetooth 2.0, [B]USB Host, a 2.0-megapixel camera[/B], an SDIO/SD/MMC slot, a 2.8" QVGA (240 x 320) TFT-LCD, 1240mAh battery, Windows Mobile 5.0, 114mm x 58mm x 18.7mm, 149g.

http://www.mobile-review.com/exhibition/image/2006/computex/new-models/3758.jpg

• Kinpo Tin (Pocket PC Phone Edition): Freescale i.MX21 350MHz processor, 64MB RAM, 128MB ROM, tri-band GSM/GPRS support, 802.11b/g Wi-Fi, [B]Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR (A2DP included), infrared, mini-USB, a 2.0-megapixel [/B] camera, a miniSD slot, a 2.8" QVGA (240 x 320) LTPS TFT-LCD, Windows Mobile 5.0, 109mm x 55mm x 21.5mm.

http://www.mobile-review.com/exhibition/image/2006/computex/new-models/3829.jpg

• Kinpo Saturn (Pocket PC Phone Edition): Freescale i.MX21 520MHz processor, 64MB RAM, 128MB ROM, tri-band GSM/GPRS support, 802.11g Wi-Fi, Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR, infrared, a [B]2.0-megapixel camera[/B], a miniSD slot, a 2.8" QVGA (240 x 320) LTPS TFT-LCD, a [B]slide-out keyboard[/B], Windows Mobile 5.0, 126mm x 59.4mm x 22.4mm, 195g.

http://www.mobile-review.com/exhibition/image/2006/computex/new-models/3915.jpg

• Gigabyte g-Smart i120 (Pocket PC Phone Edition): 64MB RAM, [B]256MB ROM[/B], tri-band GSM/GPRS support, 802.11g Wi-Fi, Bluetooth 1.2, infrared, a [B]2.1-megapixel came[/B]ra, a miniSD slot, a 2.4" QVGA (240 x 320) TFT-LCD, a[B] TV and FM radio tuner[/B], 920/1300mAh battery, Windows Mobile 5.0, 106.3mm x 53mm x 19.5mm.

http://www.mobile-review.com/exhibition/image/2006/computex/new-models/3926.jpg

• Gigabyte g-Smart i300 (Pocket PC Phone Edition): 64MB RAM, [B]256MB ROM[/B], tri-band GSM/GPRS support, [B]802.11g Wi-Fi,[/B] Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR, [B]GPS (SiRFstar III), a 2.0-megapixel camera[/B], a miniSD slot, a 2.4" QVGA (240 x 320) TFT-LCD, an [B]FM tuner,[/B] 920/1300mAh battery, Windows Mobile 5.0, 102.5mm x 51.5mm x 19mm.

http://www.mobile-review.com/exhibition/image/2006/computex/new-models/3968.jpg

• AnexTEK moboDA 3160 (Pocket PC Phone Edition): Intel PXA272 416MHz processor, 64MB RAM, 128MB ROM, tri-band GSM/GPRS support, [B]802.11b/g [/B] Wi-Fi, Bluetooth 1.2, a 1.3-megapixel camera, an SDIO/SD/MMC slot, a 2.8" QVGA (240 x 320) TFT-LCD, [B]push-to-talk [/B] over cellular (PoC) support, 1500mAh battery, Windows Mobile 5.0 (MSFP included), 110.5mm x 58.6mm x 19.8mm, 150g.

http://www.mobile-review.com/exhibition/image/2006/computex/new-models/3974.jpg

• AnexTEK moboDA 3380 (Pocket PC Phone Edition): Intel PXA272 520MHz processor, 64MB RAM, 256MB ROM, quad-band GSM/GPRS/EDGE support, [B]802.11b/g Wi-Fi,[/B] Bluetooth 1.2, [B]GPS, a 2.0-megapixel camera[/B], an SDIO/SD/MMC slot, a 2.8" QVGA (240 x 320) TFT-LCD, a [B]QWERTY thumb-board,[/B] 1350mAh battery, Windows Mobile 5.0 (MSFP included), 127mm x 66mm x 19.5mm, 170g.

http://www.mobile-review.com/exhibition/image/2006/computex/new-models/3980.jpg

• Asus P305 (Smartphone): Intel XScale 416MHz processor, 64MB RAM, 128MB ROM, [B]GSM + W-CDMA [/B] support, Bluetooth 1.2, infrared, a 1.3-megapixel camera, a miniSD slot, Windows Mobile 5.0 (Smartphone, MSFP included).

http://www.mobile-review.com/exhibition/image/2006/computex/new-models/3799.jpg

• CMCS Debussy (Smartphone): TI OMAP 850 200MHz processor, 64MB RAM, 128MB ROM, quad-band GSM/GPRS/EDGE support, [B]802.11b/g Wi-Fi,[/B] Bluetooth 1.2 [B](A2DP included[/B]), mini-USB, a 1.3-megapixel camera, a microSD slot, a 2.0" 176 x 220 display, Windows Mobile 5.0, 105.8mm x 47.8mm x 16.2mm.

http://www.mobile-review.com/exhibition/image/2006/computex/new-models/3823.jpg


• BCM Wigo 800 (Smartphone): GSM support, Wi-Fi, a [B]2.0-megapixel camera[/B], Windows Mobile 5.0.

http://www.mobile-review.com/exhibition/image/2006/computex/new-models/3818.jpg

• Unitech PA600 ([B]Rugged Handheld[/B]): Windows Mobile 5.0.
http://www.mobile-review.com/exhibition/image/2006/computex/new-models/3754.jpg

http://www.mobile-review.com/exhibition/computex06-new-models.shtml

Its game over man! Game Over!!

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...

RE: POS vs WM war over - POS lost.
Simony @ 6/12/2006 3:24:16 AM # Q
Yes, I agree - it's game over man. M$ won; Palm lost.

(My next PDA will be a Palm, however.)

Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their profits.

RE: POS vs WM war over - POS lost. Well done, Surur
SeldomVisitor @ 6/12/2006 7:53:54 AM # Q
What an information-filled post!

Thanks - no kidding!

RE: POS vs WM war over - POS lost.
Surur @ 6/12/2006 10:51:34 AM # Q
Well, to add to that is this little snippet from today.

HTC May Sales Jump 63.36% YoY
Taoyuan, Taiwan, R.O.C. Jun 9, 2006 - High Tech Computer Corp. (TAIEX: 2498) today announced that total revenues for May 2006 reached NT$ 8,336 million, up 63.36% YoY, while total revenues from January to May 2006 were NT$ 39,944 million, jump 70.23% YoY. 
http://www.htc.com.tw/news/press060609.html

That's $1.229 billion for the first 5 months of the year. HTC's formula for success has not gone unnoticed in Taiwan, and we are therefore seeing Taiwanese ODM's falling over themselves to also get into the market. Most will probably crash and burn, but they will leave a legacy of wonderously unique devices behind, and stimulate the market greatly. A few will even go on to provide real competition to HTC, and that can only be a good thing. All of these companies are going to use a varient of WM.

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...

RE: POS vs WM war over - POS lost.
naio21 @ 6/12/2006 11:26:12 AM # Q
"Yes, I agree - it's game over man. M$ won; Palm lost.

(My next PDA will be a Palm, however.)"

You probably WON'T HAVE a new PalmOS PDA to buy a few years from now.

Unless you acquire it directly from TVoR's personal stockpile of Cliés (smart guy)... ;-)

Ivan

Wanted: High quality tablet PalmOS PDA. Bwahahaha!
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/12/2006 3:46:01 PM # Q
"Yes, I agree - it's game over man. M$ won; Palm lost.

(My next PDA will be a Palm, however.)"

You probably WON'T HAVE a new PalmOS PDA to buy a few years from now.

Unless you acquire it directly from TVoR's personal stockpile of Cliés (smart guy)... ;-)

I wouldn't sell her one even if she BEGGED.

You would not believe how much I just sold one of my new European (Bluetooth + Wi-Fi) Sony CLIE TH55 for. I had bought it a few years ago for around $600 and made enough on the sale to buy a new laptop... Despite this, I sold it only because a) I have other backup units and b) the buyer is a hardcore PalmOS user and they'd been begging me to sell it for months.

Bottom line is we'll never see any more stable, high quality PalmOS tablet PDAs released. If you own a TH55, UX50 or VZ90, treasure them and pray they don't break any time soon.


TVoR

Reply to this comment

Q Smart Phone Priceing.

TSC @ 6/12/2006 5:10:58 PM # Q
Where is Mr. Mossberg and others getting their price quote of $200.00 for the new Q phone? I just returned from a Verizon company store and saw the Q phone listed at: $299.00 ($300.00)with a two years service contract.

The Palm 700p smart phone was listed at $499.00 ($500.00) with a two year service agreement. HP is offering a full sized laptop with Wi-Fi for $529.00!

Any comments? Yes, I know that a full sized laptop computer with Wi-Fi is not a telephone, but how does one justify the hight cost of the Palm 700p or Palm 700w products when, one can buy a full sized wireless enabled computer for just $29.00 more.
Does this mean that the Palm phones or over priced, or am I missing something?

TSC

RE: Q Smart Phone Priceing.
AdamaDBrown @ 6/12/2006 5:48:48 PM # Q
Verizon's store must be mistaken, or else that deal includes something else like an extended warranty or special accessories. The official Verizon online store is selling it for $200, and some retailers are going as low as $170.

RE: Q Smart Phone Priceing.
Surur @ 6/12/2006 6:08:19 PM # Q
Its $300 - $100 instant rebate.

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...

Reply to this comment

Treo left outside in the rain peering into the 3G club

ChiA @ 6/12/2006 8:23:49 PM # Q
Yet another manufacturer joins the 3G club:

RIM with the Blackberry 8707v
http://tinyurl.com/mxo6a

How long before a Treo meets the entry requirements? Let's hope Palm can get its act together before the party's over - the networks are already busying themselves with 3.5G!

RE: Treo left outside in the rain peering into the 3G club
AdamaDBrown @ 6/13/2006 1:01:33 AM # Q
To be technical, EVDO is a 3G-qualified technology. 3G is defined as cellular-wireless internet at speeds above 384 Kbits per second while walking, 128 Kbits at vehicle speed, and 2 Mbits in fixed applications. It's not dependent on standard, so EVDO is 3G, so is UMTS/HSDPA, and if you came up with another cell wireless standard capable of that, it would be 3G too.

RE: Treo left outside in the rain peering into the 3G club
ChiA @ 6/13/2006 6:46:41 AM # Q
AdamaBrown said
To be technical, EVDO is a 3G-qualified technology.

Yes, that's technically true. A good point.

However I ask the rhetorical question "can I simultaneously talk and surf with EVDO"?

The answer is you can with a UMTS/HSDPA handset.

Another rhetorical question: "Where can I get a UMTS Treo"?

RE: Treo left outside in the rain peering into the 3G club
freakout @ 6/13/2006 10:42:39 AM # Q
^^ Late 2006 or early 2007, I'd guess. Patience is a virtue.

This sig is a placeholder till I come up with something good
RE: Treo left outside in the rain peering into the 3G club
cervezas @ 6/13/2006 11:17:19 AM # Q
ChiA wrote:
However I ask the rhetorical question "can I simultaneously talk and surf with EVDO"?

According to Ryan's just-posted review, the answer seems to be "yes":

EV-DO also allows you to receive calls while the Internet connection is active, as on all previous CDMA devices the phone would not accept calls when using the data connection. Previously, incoming calls would go straight to voicemail when browsing the web or checking email.

Nice rhetoric, though.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Treo left outside in the rain peering into the 3G club
ChiA @ 6/13/2006 12:10:53 PM # Q
In which case I stand corrected.
Now will Palm hurry up and release a UMTS/GSM Treo 700p for Europe!
RE: Treo left outside in the rain peering into the 3G club
Surur @ 6/13/2006 12:57:51 PM # Q

Simultaneous voice and data means at the same time, not one after the other. Only the next revision of EVDO will have this.

UMTS can do voice while doing data (e.g. chat about the web page you are surfing at the moment).

Current EVDO cant.

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...

Patience isn't a Virtue for Smartphone Launches
ChiA @ 6/14/2006 3:27:04 PM # Q
the freak said
Late 2006 or early 2007, I'd guess. Patience is a virtue.

Oh yea? Try telling that to the early bird who caught the worm!

On a serious note, not releasing a GSM/UMTS version of the Treo 700p simultaneously with the EV-DO can suggest several things:


- Palm or the carriers aren't ready for a GSM/UMTS Treo 700p
- Palm or the carriers aren't interested in selling a GSM/UMTS Treo for the rest of the world.

The longer the delay, the more likely people will buy a Treo 650 or a competing device as an alternative, thus reducing the potential market for a UMTS/GSM Treo 700p if and when it arrives.
This may be a good thing for Palm if they have an excess inventory of Treo 650s.

RE: Treo left outside in the rain peering into the 3G club
Foo Fighter @ 6/14/2006 4:49:06 PM # Q
All UMTS smartphones are running late this year because of issues related to delays in rollout and UMTS auction. Don't expect to see any new GSM models until later in the year.

-------------------------------
Elitist Snob, www.elitistsnob.com
RE: Treo left outside in the rain peering into the 3G club
Surur @ 6/14/2006 6:17:46 PM # Q

Do you mean only US or worldwide, because the HTC Breeze and Hermes are expected soon in Europe (next few weeks).

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...

3G means different things in different places
ChiA @ 6/14/2006 8:18:44 PM # Q
Do you mean only US or worldwide?

He's probably referring to the US only; UMTS 3G is very much in use in Europe.
There are several different standards which are all regarded as 3G.

I used the term UMTS for a European 3G Treo as UMTS is the "flavour" of 3G that's been implemented within Europe.

These links do a bit more explaining:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umts
http://www.gsmworld.com/technology/3g/faq.shtml
http://www.umtsworld.com/umts/faq.htm#f14

RE: Treo left outside in the rain peering into the 3G club
Foo Fighter @ 6/14/2006 8:19:02 PM # Q
I mean here in the US.

-------------------------------
Elitist Snob, www.elitistsnob.com
RE: Treo left outside in the rain peering into the 3G club
freakout @ 6/15/2006 5:44:52 AM # Q
ChiA said:

"Try telling that to the early bird who caught the worm!"

Curses! Out-debated again. ;)

This sig is a placeholder till I come up with something good

Reply to this comment

The Q is now $99

SeldomVisitor @ 7/12/2006 12:06:38 PM # Q
Amazon has it for $99 after "special offers".

That $50 price mentioned sometime back is rapidly approaching.

Wow.

RE: The Q is now $99
hkklife @ 7/12/2006 1:17:41 PM # Q
Expect the original Q to drop to $50 by, what, year's end? Or early '07. Then watch as a touchscreen Q and/or a non-touchscreen Q with beefed-up specs comes out and overwhelms the 700P through price/peformfance/marketing alone.

(For the record, I STILL am surprised that Verizon went with the 700P at all. I had though they were entirely in the WinMob camp by this stage of the game)

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: The Q is now $99
SeldomVisitor @ 7/12/2006 1:33:58 PM # Q
There is rumor-poop aroundthat Sprint is not going with the 700w.

What a strange world.

I think the Q was a kick in the teeth.

RE: The Q is now $99
Foo Fighter @ 7/12/2006 3:03:54 PM # Q
>> "There is rumor-poop aroundthat Sprint is not going with the 700w."

A rumor with the same credibility as the one that claimed Verizon was dumping the 700w en masse. Interesting how these "rumors" got started on PalmOS forums, isn't it? Go figure.

Wishful thinking? Delusions of grandeur? Sorry boys and girls, Windows Mobile isn't going away...but PalmOS is.

-------------------------------
PocketFactory, www.pocketfactory.com
Elitist Snob, www.elitistsnob.com

RE: The Q is now $99
SeldomVisitor @ 7/12/2006 4:11:41 PM # Q
Actually, that particular rumor-poop came from a TREO-oriented site, not PalmOS-oriented.

The "No Cingular TREO 700X anytime soon" poop came from here, though.

RE: The Q is now $99
naio21 @ 7/12/2006 4:54:44 PM # Q
If you're talking about Treocentral ou Treonauts, sorry. They can be Treo-oriented, but are PalmOS-biased also.

Ivan
RE: The Q is now $99
Foo Fighter @ 7/12/2006 5:45:47 PM # Q
>> "They can be Treo-oriented, but are PalmOS-biased also."

Precisely. Which is why I take any "rumor" originating from those forums with a grain of salt a stiff shot of whiskey. The VAST majority of users who permeate TreoCentral/Treonauts are logically PalmOS fans who typically display a neurotic fear of Windows Mobile, especially now that PalmOS is dying off. I see this behavior exhibited time and again in other fanboy tech niches, such as Linux for example. It's almost as if these individuals think they can reverse what is happening to PalmOS through collective willpower, by spreading FUD about Windows Mobile.

"Hey, I just heard that Verizon is dumping Windows Mobile and going all PalmOS!"...

"Yes, I too heard that"...

"So did I!"...

"And I heard that Windows Mobile is being cancelled by Microsoft"...

And so on. Lunacy at its best. Makes for good comic entertainment value though.



-------------------------------
PocketFactory, www.pocketfactory.com
Elitist Snob, www.elitistsnob.com

RE: The Q is now $99
cervezas @ 7/12/2006 6:14:02 PM # Q
I heard that Windows Mobile is being cancelled by Microsoft

Yeah, I heard that, too. Damn, I thought I had a scoop!

:-)

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: The Q is now $99
Surur @ 7/12/2006 6:21:04 PM # Q
A little bit I wrote for pda24/7

The blogosphere has been abuzz with the recent confirmation that NTT DoCoMo is joining the HTC Hermes carrier feeding frenzy by releasing a specially branded device with the Japanese Windows Mobile operating system by the end of July. If you glance down the page, you will see that T-Mobile, O2 and Vodafone has all also signed up for this device, so why is the DoCoMo move so significant.

This is why:

DoCoMo pokes Microsoft in the eye - again
http://www.imodestrategy.com/2004/11/docomo_duds_mic.html

From now on, DoCoMo expects that most or all of its new 3G handsets will run on either Linux or Symbian OS. Suppliers will be able to decide which operating system they adopt.

The company is not pushing development of any other operating systems, spokesman Takumi Suzuki said:

"To tell you the truth, we don't like... and we don't have a plan to invest in Windows. Windows is not for the mobile space, the files are big."

The common platform is designed to cut costs and speed development of difficult-to-make 3G phones, according to DoCoMo.

This was from November 2004. How times have changed in 1 1/2 years. Possibly prompted by the success of the Willcom W-Zero devices on the PHS network, and the obvious demand from the Japanese public, DoCoMo has made an amazing (and probably embarrassing) about face. It a bit like, if I had to give some far out fantastical examples, like Palm making a Windows Mobile Treo, or Apple running Windows on their MacBook ;)

This does not mean DoCoMo has changed their Linux strategy (and they still own a healthy chunk of Access, which is making PalmOS Linux) but the Windows Mobile OS, already popular in other part of Asia such as China, Korea and Singapore, has now really arrived in Japan. I hope it does better than the Xbox 360 there ;)
http://clieuk.co.uk/wm.shtml

Surur


They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...
Hey!! I made associate writer at PDA247. http://www.palminfocenter.com/">Come see my nattering over there!!

RE: The Q is now $99
cervezas @ 7/12/2006 6:22:34 PM # Q
hkklife wrote:
Expect the original Q to drop to $50 by, what, year's end? Or early '07.

In time for Christmas. :-P It sounds like the Q is giving Verizon the same problem with high returns that it has Cingular: http://tinyurl.com/z6swt. Ouch. That and the fact that Microsoft is cancelling Windows Mobile.... So much bad news for WM. ;-)

Then watch as a touchscreen Q and/or a non-touchscreen Q with beefed-up specs comes out and overwhelms the 700P through price/peformfance/marketing alone.

I don't think you're going to see a touchscreen Q in anything close to that form factor any time soon. And the problem with the Q isn't the specs, it's that it runs the Smartphone edition of WM5. All the bad stuff about WM without most of the good stuff. Still, no question that at $50 it'd put a noticeable dent in the Treo.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: The Q is now $99
hkklife @ 7/12/2006 8:18:25 PM # Q
David et al;

Is there any "legitimate" reason (aside from screen) the Q couldn't run WinMob 5?
Adding a touchscreen to the Q might bulk up the FF a tad but it'd be well worth it IMO. I mean the BlackBerries are far bulkier and they don't have touchscreens!

Another point:
One thing that all of these "old hands" are totally missing the boat on is the truest bastion of portable media--a standard 3.5mm headphine jack! The Q doesn't have it, the Treos don't have it and the BB wouldn't have it even if it had external storage capabilities. Banish that miserable 2.5mm jack, go BT for a voice headset but give me something that's not a kludge for my Shure earbuds!!



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: The Q is now $99
AdamaDBrown @ 7/12/2006 8:22:13 PM # Q
Okay, you're joking, right? Because for one thing, the Q isn't available on Cingular...

RE: The Q is now $99
cervezas @ 7/12/2006 9:58:56 PM # Q
the Q isn't available on Cingular...

Which accounts, I imagine, for why the high return rate has been such a surprise to them. Could Windows Mobile Smartphone really be THAT BAD??

Apparently, so.

In a related note, does anyone else miss the inimitable Dr. O?


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: The Q is now $99
cervezas @ 7/12/2006 9:58:56 PM # Q
the Q isn't available on Cingular...

Exactly. So imagine the unpleasant surprise the high return rate must have been for them. Could Windows Mobile Smartphone really be THAT BAD??

Apparently, so. :-)

In a related note, does anyone else occasionally miss the inimitable Dr. O?



David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: The Q is now $99
freakout @ 7/12/2006 10:06:11 PM # Q
Foo said:
Sorry boys and girls, Windows Mobile isn't going away...but PalmOS is.

Only until they come up with a new one. ;)

Cervezas said:
In time for Christmas. :-P It sounds like the Q is giving Verizon the same problem with high returns that it has Cingular: http://tinyurl.com/z6swt. Ouch.

That article is hilarious. And just as I suspected, battery life is top of the list of complaints:

Battery Life Expectations Not Properly Set:
The Motorola Q is a slim line PDA/Smartphone with the slim form factor, and limited battery life can be an issue. To assist customers with this issue, Verizon Wireless has an introductory offer on the extended battery and door for only $19.99 (a $40 savings). Currently, we are only seeing a 35% attach rate on these batteries.

Suckers! Bricks do have their uses, you know...

hklife said:
One thing that all of these "old hands" are totally missing the boat on is the truest bastion of portable media--a standard 3.5mm headphine jack!...Banish that miserable 2.5mm jack, go BT for a voice headset but give me something that's not a kludge for my Shure earbuds!!

Amen, brother.

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650

RE: The Q is now $99
freakout @ 7/12/2006 10:18:43 PM # Q
In a related note, does anyone else miss the inimitable Dr. O?

Yes. Perhaps he and TVoR are off on their honeymoon in Hawaii or something. ;)

RE: The Q is now $99
cervezas @ 7/12/2006 10:20:28 PM # Q
the Q isn't available on Cingular...

Ok, I admit it: a little too much sake before posting. It's the Cingular 8125 (HTC Wizard) and 2125 (HTC Faraday) that I'm told have had very high return rates for Cingular. The Cingular 8125 is going for $125 on Amazon right now. Amazing.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: The Q is now $99
cervezas @ 7/12/2006 10:35:59 PM # Q
hkklife wrote:
Is there any "legitimate" reason (aside from screen) the Q couldn't run WinMob 5?

Really don't know, except that touchscreen devices always seem to be a lot bulkier for any given level of processor power. Off the top of my head, greater memory requirement, extra circuitry and more processor cycles devoted to handling screen input means bigger batteries.

By the way, the Q *does* run WinMob 5, it's just "Windows Mobile 5.0 Smartphone Edition."

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: The Q is now $99
AdamaDBrown @ 7/13/2006 12:24:41 AM # Q
Ok, I admit it: a little too much sake before posting. It's the Cingular 8125 (HTC Wizard) and 2125 (HTC Faraday) that I'm told have had very high return rates for Cingular. The Cingular 8125 is going for $125 on Amazon right now. Amazing.

Enh. I've heard that same bit of hearsay repeated for almost every major Windows device released in the last few years. The 700w, Q, 8125, 2125, MDA, 6700, 6600, iPaqs, Axims, on on down the line. I have yet to see any evidence that such a report is accurate.

RE: The Q is now $99
cervezas @ 7/13/2006 2:40:15 AM # Q
I have yet to see any evidence that such a report is accurate.

It's anecdotal, to be sure, but I've heard the same thing from two different Cingular sales reps. One in Chicago and one in Colorado Springs.

At any rate, you have to admit that $125 is a pretty sad price for an HTC Wizard that was selling for $350 with a two year contract just five months ago.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: The Q is now $99
AdamaDBrown @ 7/13/2006 4:38:57 AM # Q
How is it sad? The T-Mobile MDA, which is the same hardware, has gone for sub-$100. The lower the price, the more sales you make.

RE: The Q is now $99
cervezas @ 7/13/2006 8:13:21 AM # Q
Well, certainly not sad for consumers, it's true. I just meant that it's probably a disappointment for Cingular to have to discount these so steeply after such a short period of time. But maybe I left my Dr O hat on for too long. It could be that Cingular has found that Wizard users spend so much more on wireless data on average that it's worth it to get them into their hands at almost any cost.

The aging Treo 650 is going for $150 on Cingular--a similar discount. Still, Cingular has been selling the Treo 650 for a year and a half.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: The Q is now $99
Foo Fighter @ 7/13/2006 9:08:03 AM # Q
>> "In a related note, does anyone else occasionally miss the inimitable Dr. O?"

I do miss his comically inaccurate views and delightfully delusional opinions; reality is precisely the opposite of his views and opinions. Perhaps Ryan should change his name to Dr. Delusion?

-------------------------------
PocketFactory, www.pocketfactory.com
Elitist Snob, www.elitistsnob.com

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