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    Comments on: Mossberg Compares the Q and Treo 700pWalt Mossberg, the Wall Street Journal's personal technology reviewer, is widely regarded as a huge fan of Palm's Treo line. Walt recently put two smartphone heavyweights to the test: Motorola's new Windows Mobile Q, available exclusively on Verizon and Palm's Treo 700p, available on both Sprint and Verizon. Despite the Q coming in with sleek Razr-like styling cues and an astounding low price ($200 w/ 2-year contract), He still gives the nod to the $400 Treo 700p. The full article goes over the two smartphones and illustrates just how dissimilar these two competitors actually are.
Detailed Comment View (124 Total Comments)
The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. PIC is not responsible for them in any way. login or register for free in order to post comments.  RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price.
I predicted the worst when I saw the Q's LAUNCH pricetag (that's no mail in rebates, folks....just the out the door price w/ a 2-year contract!) With the initial reviews giving the Q rather mediocre scores (at best), my fears are quelled a bit. But that still does not to address TVoR's points that Palm's products are hideously overpriced and look like something from 1999. For the record, the Q @ Verizon (web & retail) is $200 w/ 2 year contract. The Verizon Blackberries are now $200 to $300 w/ contract. And Verizon's in-store price (as of this past Monday the 5th) of the 700W & 700P is a jaw-dropping $500 w/ 2-year contract!!!!!! RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price.
Great article here: RAZR'S edge http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2006/06/12/8379239/index.htm RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price.
"We'll sell more RAZRs this year than Apple will iPods." RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price.The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/9/2006 5:39:45 PM #
I predicted the worst when I saw the Q's LAUNCH pricetag (that's no mail in rebates, folks....just the out the door price w/ a 2-year contract!) With the initial reviews giving the Q rather mediocre scores (at best), my fears are quelled a bit. But that still does not to address TVoR's points that Palm's products are hideously overpriced and look like something from 1999. For the record, the Q @ Verizon (web & retail) is $200 w/ 2 year contract. The Verizon Blackberries are now $200 to $300 w/ contract. And Verizon's in-store price (as of this past Monday the 5th) of the 700W & 700P is a jaw-dropping $500 w/ 2-year contract!!!!!! While Motorola's Q isn't exactly a great smartphone, how long until other manufacturers figure out how to make a good, cheap smartphone? Sony Ericsson and Nokia are now getting VERY close. Palm will soon find out how well $500 Treos will compete with $100 - $300 offerings from the competition. Greed is Bad, Mr. Colligan.
RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
"And Verizon's in-store price (as of this past Monday the 5th) of the 700W & 700P is a jaw-dropping $500 w/ 2-year contract!!!!!!" Wow, that is a $500 downpayment, with $110/month for 24 months. Are AC and and side airbags included with this lease? RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + pricegoat_fajitas @ 6/9/2006 8:03:28 PM #
Maybe its you that doesnt get it... Palm is targeting serious enterprise customers. The Treo 700p rocks ! Yes its bigger, and fatter, this allows a great battery. I would say the Q and others like it are flimsy. Mossberg seemed to love the Treo as well, even though its bigger, and costs 2x as much, it still wins out. Did you even read the whole article to find out why? RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price.
>>how long until other manufacturers figure out how to make a good, cheap smartphone? Didn't everybody ask this question 2 years ago? The answer is apparently - 'a long long time'. Its really the same as with the Blackberrys and their push-email experience. I think most people also expected Windows Mobile, Palm, Symbian devices (Nokia), to clean RIMs clock years ago as well. And here we are in 2006 - and i'll be the first to admit that i could never ever have imagined how bad a job all the 'big' companies would do at beating out RIM. The treo comes closest, and with bbconnect push capabilities, it is IMHO a much better device. People are willing to pay a premium for a better experience. Yeah - it feels like rape to me. But Palms strategy has worked well for them these last 2 years with the Treo. I think they know they have to go cheap and they have announced that they intend to release a low-end model. In the meantime - it's hard to blame them for taking in the cash when people are willing to pay and the competition fails (again and again) to step up. RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price.The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/9/2006 11:18:06 PM #
>>how long until other manufacturers figure out how to make a good, cheap smartphone? Didn't everybody ask this question 2 years ago? The answer is apparently - 'a long long time'. While I'm surprised that no-one has yet beat Handspring's 3 year old Treo 600 design, I also realize that it's only a matter of time before one of the Big Boys (or a company like HTC) releases a smaller, lighter, better-built, cheaper smartphone and immediately swipes Palm's marketshare. Consumers are not loyal and Palm is doing everything possible to make it an easy decision for consumers to jump off the bandwagon. Samsung came close to the perfect smartphone with the i500. The i550 would have been the new ideal had it not been spurned by the dumba$$es at Sprint.
RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + pricePenguinPowered @ 6/9/2006 11:51:55 PM #
Palm is targeting serious enterprise customers. While even Blackberry is trying to move into a larger market. Palm's market share lasts exactly as long as they can convince those serious enterprise customers that the feature set on the Treo is enough better to justify the higher cost. The indication is that the competition is dropping price and adding feature set at a much faster rate than Palm. This is a downward spiral. The smaller your relative market share, the less money you have for R&D, the longer it takes you to get out a competitive process, and the farther you fall behind.
RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price.AdamaDBrown @ 6/10/2006 12:36:55 AM #
I think they know they have to go cheap and they have announced that they intend to release a low-end model. Actually, as far as I know Palm has made no official confirmation of a low end device. All the "Lowrider" talk is just rumor. They haven't denied it either, but then, they usually don't. RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price.The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/10/2006 1:02:13 AM #
>>>Palm is targeting serious enterprise customers. While even Blackberry is trying to move into a larger market. Palm's market share lasts exactly as long as they can convince those serious enterprise customers that the feature set on the Treo is enough better to justify the higher cost. The indication is that the competition is dropping price and adding feature set at a much faster rate than Palm. This is a downward spiral. The smaller your relative market share, the less money you have for R&D, the longer it takes you to get out a competitive process, and the farther you fall behind. Precisely. It's amazing that most people still don't seem to understand this. While I'm shocked that we have yet to see a "Treo killer", in the end the competition might only need to undercut palm on PRICE. If enough people stop buying expensive Treos, where is Palm's revenue source. Things will snowball quickly on Redink Mountain and I expect Chateau Colligan (sitting oblivious in the valley below) will be obliterated quickly. Palm's "R&D" in the past 3 years has NOTHING to show for itself - this company is just living off the Handspring Treo 600 design. But if they keep riding + beating that broken down old Treo 600 nag, eventually it will collapse and end up in the glue factory. The Treo Franchaise is slowly circling the toilet...
RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + pricePenguinPowered @ 6/10/2006 2:08:23 PM #
I don't think we'll ever see a "Treo Killer" because, as the Q demonstrates, the competition is making an end run around the enterprise market. Moto has clearly put a stake in the ground, and the rumor mill has Nokia not far behind with a consumer-oriented 'smart' phone. It's easier to cede the "enterprise" market to Palm/RIM and go after the much larger, more lucrative consumer market. This, by the way, is why ALP will eventually see the light of day, because it is going to be effective in the mid-level phone market in Asia, where CMS is already playing.
The Treo Killers kill with 1000 papercutsThe_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/10/2006 2:17:39 PM #
I don't think we'll ever see a "Treo Killer" because, as the Q demonstrates, the competition is making an end run around the enterprise market. Moto has clearly put a stake in the ground, and the rumor mill has Nokia not far behind with a consumer-oriented 'smart' phone. It's easier to cede the "enterprise" market to Palm/RIM and go after the much larger, more lucrative consumer market. This, by the way, is why ALP will eventually see the light of day, because it is going to be effective in the mid-level phone market in Asia, where CMS is already playing. Marty, you still don't understand what a "Treo Killer" needs to do in order to accomplish its mission. Any device that offers the core subset of Treo features needed by individuals + businesses while undercutting Treos in price + offering better reliability/build quality/stability/voice quality will quickly siphon customers from Palm's pool of Treo customers. It's not necessary (or even desirable) for a "Treo Killer" to compete with the Treo feature for feature. Furthermore, with Windows Mobile now sporting free "push" email and Palm still lacking an integrated push email solution, there's zero possibility that anyone's about to roll over and "cede the "enterprise" market to Palm/RIM". It's just too easy to leverage the Microsoft name to carve out a healthy chunk of the business market from Palm and RIM. Push email for the common workers, all for "free". Who could resist? Access' VaporOS is a long way off and PalmOS 5 cannot be hacked anymore without a significant investment in time + codemonkey hours by Palm. Not a good idea, especially for a company that does not own the OS. Palm's marketshare is about to evaporate as quickly as a Vaporware Springboard module in the morning sun. Nokia et. al. will be in full Take No Prisoners™ mode when their new phones arrive later this year. Every sale they steal from Palm reduces Palm's profits and accelerates Palm's spiral into oblivion (bankruptcy). TVoR RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + pricePenguinPowered @ 6/10/2006 5:41:58 PM #
Ah, but you're wrong. You can delete "+ business" and stick entirely with the consumer market. Watch the industry for the next couple of years and learn. ;)
You still don't understand, Grasshopper.The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/10/2006 6:12:18 PM #
You can delete "+ business" and stick entirely with the consumer market. With hundreds of millions of personal cellphones being sold every year (probably close to 1 BILLION in 2006), of course the major handset manufacturers could focus solely on the consumer market and still do well. But why would they want to ignore the enterprise market? Why throw away a lucrative sideline when you already have a product businesses want? Ignoring enterprise would be akin to an auto manufacturer refusing to sell vehicles (at a premium) to a car rental company or any other bulk purchaser of its vehicles. "Smartphone" will soon be a redundant term, since all phones will eventually ship with the kind of features seen on today's smartphones. Any manufacturer that ignores business users is throwing away easy money. At the same time, any manufacturer thinking they can gear themselves to just business users is deceiving themselves. (The only reason why RIM is still around in 2006 is the spectacular failure of Microsoft and Palm to capitalize on their respective platform's ability to handle email.) The key is making the user experience (individual and business) as painless and turnkey as possible. Palm has shown itself incapable of advancing the few original ideas it has come up with. Even if Palm had competent leadership (it doesn't) it would only have been a matter of time before it was crushed by the likes of Nokia and Motorola. TVoR RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + pricePenguinPowered @ 6/10/2006 7:05:19 PM #
"Smartphone" will soon be a redundant term, since all phones will eventually ship with the kind of features seen on today's smartphones. Which is why moto doesn't need to do anything special for business users. When the moto phones are ubiquitous, businesses will realize that they can get by without the extra features. why put in the extra work to add the features when you can live off the larger market and eventually force the business user to come to you? It makes good sense
AdamaDBrown said: "Actually, as far as I know Palm has made no official confirmation of a low end device. All the "Lowrider" talk is just rumor." For now. But I'm sure that Palm see the obvious need for a cheaper, low-end Treo to compete with phones like the Q. A "Lowrider" is simply common sense, which is why I firmly believe the rumours are true. The real question will be whether it will be able to stop the big phone makers from eating Palm's lunch. While I hesitate to be as blindly faithful as Sagio, a correctly designed Lowrider could be a very hot consumer item. It's not all doom and gloom! Yet. RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price.The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/10/2006 10:41:51 PM #
why put in the extra work to add the features when you can live off the larger market and eventually force the business user to come to you? You're not making sense, Marty. Any company that can establish itself NOW as a business email solution stands to make a killing, since RIM is currently the only (main) game in town. Steal Blackberry's thunder and become the de facto standard (get mindshare in the business world) and watch the profits roll in year after year. Look at how much RIM is raking in with its crappy hardware, uber-expensive software and perpetual support costs. That could have been money going to Palm (or Microsoft licensees) if only they got their act together. NOW is the time to milk businesses for all they're worth by getting in EARLY and providing them a turnkey solution that (slightly) undercuts RIM's extravagant pricing. Wait much longer and the enterprise pie will have to be shared between dozens of hungry handset manufacturers, all providing commodity-priced devices that hook into a standardized server. TVoR RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price.The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/10/2006 10:54:53 PM #
a correctly designed Lowrider could be a very hot consumer item. Correction: "a correctly designed Lowrider would have been a very hot consumer item in 2004. Palm could have become a MAJOR handset supplier if only they had any corporate leadership. Imagine how many people would have been willing to buy a 3 - 4 ounce traditional form factor cellphone that also happened to run PalmOS. Imagine the boost these sales would have given to the currently moribund Palm Economy. Pathetic.
Yes. Nagel said we will be seeing several Cobalt smartphones released in 2005. I KNOW they'll be here soon... TVoR RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
TVoR, what was applicable in 2004 that isn't in 2006? Obviously there's increased competition, but it will mean sweet dick all if the Lowrider is a great product. Given that phones like the Q aren't even better than the 650 feature-wise, if Palm make a good-looking device then they'll sell like hotcakes. Obviously your experience with the company is telling you otherwise, but it still seems too early to me to be writing Palm's obituary. RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
freakout said TVoR, what was applicable in 2004 that isn't in 2006? Obviously there's increased competition, but it will mean sweet dick all if the Lowrider is a great product. Because in 2006 (at least in Europe) the consumer can get "dumb" mobiles from most manufacturers which (with the exception of a qwerty keyboard) have features and specifications superior to the 700p. The European carriers provide these handsets for free or with heavy carrier subsidy (conditional upon 12 month or 18 month contract naturally). Even without any carrier subsidy some of these phones are cheaper than a Treo 650. Give yourself an education and visit www.expansys.com for what you can buy in the UK and Europe today. So, for the Lowrider to be a "great product" for the consumer market it'll have to have more features than the Treo 700p yet sell at a third of its price, otherwise it'll be blown out of the water faster than a raft struck by a cruise missile. It'll be astounding if Palm can rise up to this challenge. If Lowrider is anything less then the squeamish had better look away as the bears of Nokia, Motorola and Samsung will savagely maul Palm's Lowrider puppy in the consumer market. RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + priceSeldomVisitor @ 6/11/2006 8:53:47 AM #
I think the Q introduced not a wildy interesting new smartphone (though it, too, is cool like the TREOs) but instead a pricepoint that smacked PALM upside the head. And THAT is what PALM has to best - and there ain't no way they can, IMHO, due to lack of "size" - Motorola can sell the Q for less than they make it since they are so vast the Q is almost an insignificant part of their revenue stream - while with the TREOs - well, they're the ONLY revenue stream PALM has, eh? RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
"but instead a pricepoint that smacked PALM upside the head" Q = $199 .... Did I miss something? RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
"Because in 2006 (at least in Europe) the consumer can get "dumb" mobiles from most manufacturers which (with the exception of a qwerty keyboard) have features and specifications superior to the 700p." Lol. Name three. Be careful what you ask for, freak!
The freak said: Lol. Name three. From www.expansys.com and www.orange.co.uk: Nokia N91 - 4GB of storage, 2 Megapixel camera, EDGE, 3G and wifi but look no antenna and not the size of a brick! Orange M5000 (rebadged HTC) - has less memory than the Treo 700p but has everything else it plus 3G and wifi! Motorola RAZR V3x - a RAZR but with 2 Megapixel camera and 3G. plus many consumer handsets which come with a minimum of 2 megapixel cameras from Sony Ericsson, Samsung, Motorola, Nokia etc which are all just as capable of handling MP3s and email. Besides, the most current GSM Treo is the 650 which is blown out of the water by many consumer handsets available today in the UK yet that is currently Palm's premium European smartphone! Judging from it's lack of speed in the past - it took 6 months for the GSM Treo 650 to arrive in Europe - by the time a new GSM Treo arrives the other manufacturers will have something faster, better and cheaper. If you want to see what'll be hitting the scene within the next three months just visit www.mobileburn.com; Palm execs thinking a low feature Palm Lowrider will be a great product for the consumer market had better have a change of underwear to hand! Palm MAULED by Nokia. Film at 11.The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/11/2006 2:44:58 PM #
the squeamish had better look away as the bears of Nokia, Motorola and Samsung will savagely maul Palm's Lowrider puppy
Major handset manufacturers have design cycles that produce new, improved models every 6 - 12 months. Palm is unable (or unwilling) to innovate at that pace and is therefore being left behind in the dust. Once passed, they will simply continue to fall further + further behind the cutting edge in terms of features, until they simply no longer matter. And since carriers are Palm's new masters, once carriers start sourcing ALL of their smartphones from the competition, Palm is screwed. Those looking for PalmOS apps on good, inexpensive hardware will be better off just buying a copy of StyleTap Platform and a next-generation Windows phone. Price + lack of control over the OS are the keys to Palm's demise. Go to Sony Ericsson's or Nokia's websites and behold how advanced cellphones have become in 2006, Grasshopper. Palm can't beat these companies in engineering, design cycles or price, while at the same time, PalmOS (previously Palm's ace in the hole) has become irrelevant. With Palm now completely dependent on revenues from carriers + Treos to survive, as soon as profits are squeezed by competition from the major handset manufacturers, Palm has NOTHING to fall back on. Perhaps they'll figure out a way to survive by becoming a Boutique Brand™ - like (Cr)Apple - but I doubt it. Even Poor Old Marty Fouts is starting to get it now: Nokia et. al. don't fcuk around. Cellphones are about to become the most important piece of electronics in the lives of consumers (voice + email communication, photography, Internet, contact management, music, TV, video) and will soon be replacing numerous other categories of electronics (standalone digital cameras and MP3 players will be among the first to feel the heat). Palm could have been a major player in this cellphone-centric future, but they blew it. Big time. Oh well.
RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + priceSeldomVisitor @ 6/11/2006 3:34:44 PM #
> ...Major handset manufacturers have design cycles that > produce new, improved models every 6 - 12 months... Nokia introduces a new phone very 9 days. RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price.The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/11/2006 3:51:47 PM #
> ...Major handset manufacturers have design cycles that > produce new, improved models every 6 - 12 months... Nokia introduces a new phone very 9 days.
More like every 9 seconds. Note: I did try to qualify their release schedule by saying "new, improved phone...". Most new models coming out are incremental upgrades or cosmetic changes, but at least once or twice a year the big handset manufacturers come up with impressive, completely new releases. Historically, Palm has come up with significant new designs every 3 years or so (Pilot 1000, Palm V, Tungsten T3. If it's planning on competing with Nokia, Sony Ericsson, Samsung, Motorola, LG, etc., that's just not gonna cut it anymore. TVoR RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
Okay, the Nokia is pretty cool. The other two weren't all that impressive; the Orange is ugly and the RAZR is the most overrated phone on the market. 3G Treos are on the way, and you can add Wi-Fi to the Windows ones via SDIO, so I don't see that as a major sticking point anymore. I now accept your argument that competitors will be able to undercut Palm. I don't accept that they're just going to roll over and die, however. As always, I remain optimistic. As far as I'm concerned, it ain't over until Palm is bankrupt. ;) RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
The freak said: Okay, the Nokia is pretty cool. The other two weren't all that impressive; the Orange is uglyThere are many who feel that the Treo with its antenna isn't a pretty boy either: can you see any other phones on the European market with external antenna? and the RAZR is the most overrated phone on the market.When you compare the Motorola V3x to the Treo 650, which is the latest Palm smartphone in Europe, the V3x comes with more user memory (64MB), two cameras (one 2 megapixel & one for videoconferencing) and 3G yet you describe it as overrated?! 3G Treos are on the way, and you can add Wi-Fi to the Windows ones via SDIO, so I don't see that as a major sticking point anymore.The only way you can add wi-fi to the Palm Treos is by using a bulky sled at a time when even printers and digital cameras are now available with built-in wi-fi. If Palm takes the same amount of time incorporating 3G into a Treo as it did Bluetooth, it may as well roll over and die - the graveyard is already occupied by those companies slaughtered in the mobile market: Panasonic, Siemens and even Ericsson. Pray that Nokia and Motorola undertakers haven't already taken Palm's measurement for its casket. RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + priceSeldomVisitor @ 6/12/2006 7:17:17 AM #
Though this post is not meant to tout the RAZR as being something worthwhile - I don't personally know (other than I rejected the idea of getting two free ones when I signed up with Cingular's Family Plan a couple months ago in favor of a Sony-Ericsson model) - I am pretty much floored with just how many I see "out there". Saturday I went to the Fairfax County Fair (big deal here in Northern Virginia) and every-other teenybopper had one glued to his/her ear. Amazing sales. RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
"The only way you can add wi-fi to the Palm Treos is by using a bulky sled" Yep, that's true, which is why I said "you can add Wi-Fi to the *Windows* ones via SDIO". External antennas don't really bother me. Yes, I'd prefer the Treo had an internal one, but the placement of the antenna is hardly the deciding factor in what makes a great phone. The (alleged) Hollywood will do away with it soon anyways, so it'll be a moot point. And yes, RAZRs are overrated. Don't get me wrong, they're nice. They're thin, and they have a few cool features. The UI, like that on most mobile phones, sucks dog's balls compared to the ease-of-use you get with a PalmOS Treo. My friends who have one tell me battery life is pretty stinky too. Also, I must admit part of the reason I don't like them is 'cause it seems like *everyone* has one nowadays... I'm not here to argue, just to say that I'm sure there are lots of other loyal Treo fans like myself who are eagerly awaiting the next iteration, and the one after that, and the one after that. Heck, I know there are, what with all the Treo fansites out there nowadays. So I think it's premature to be hammering the nails into Palm's coffin when they have a winning form factor, when they still have some interesting (rumoured) new products coming, and likely even a new OS. And FWIW, the Enfora sled isn't all that bad. It's a rather neat solution actually, as it has it's own battery and thus doesn't drain your device as horribly as built-in wi-fi does. Ever used one? (I had the chance to play with one last week. Was very impressed.) Yeah, it adds bulk, but good smartphones and PDAs are all bulky right now anyways. All my subjective opinion. No need to get cut up about it. RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
> Palm has taken 3 YEARS to go from the Treo 600 to the 700p. The Treo 600 launch was September 2003. Three years would be September 2006. The 700p launch was May 2006. > And what was added in that time? Bluetooth, a better screen The following are Treo 700p improvements over the Treo 600. * Bluetooth for voice and data TVoR identified the first three in his post. He ignored the last seven. > Of course, several apps are now brutally, savagely broken by the Treo 700p, TVoR posted no facts to back up his claim of applications that are "brutally, savagely borken" on the 700p. TVoR was wrong regarding the three year timeline. TVoR uses inaccuracies and emotions instead of facts in his arguments. WHOA, Nelly!!!! (Someone is looking like a fool + it's not me...)The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/12/2006 12:45:35 PM #
> Palm has taken 3 YEARS to go from the Treo 600 to the 700p. The Treo 600 launch was September 2003. Three years would be September 2006. The 700p launch was May 2006. Let's see... so the Treo 700p was launched 2 years and 8 months after the Treo 600? Should I break it down to the # of days, hours, minutes and seconds as well? Sheesh. And since we are now in June with no better Treos than the Treo 700p available, it looks like we're at 2 years and 9 months after the Treo 600 with no significantly improved devices available from Palm. I hope you'll find it in your heart to forgive me for rounding this up to "3 YEARS"... > And what was added in that time? Bluetooth, a better screen The following are Treo 700p improvements over the Treo 600. * Bluetooth for voice and data TVoR identified the first three in his post. He ignored the last seven. Bubba, you crack me up. Really. The things you mention only emphasize how pathetically-specced BOTH the Treo 600 and the Treo 700p were. 1) Bluetooth - should have been part of the Treo 600 from Day 1 (was apparently dropped at the last minute). > Of course, several apps are now brutally, savagely broken by the Treo 700p, TVoR posted no facts to back up his claim of applications that are "brutally, savagely borken" on the 700p. http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=115147 http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=115827 Uninstall Manager Do a web search and you'll find a LOT more app that have been wiped out by the Treo 700p. As usual, many developers will go back to the drawing board and spend the time figuring out how to make their apps work with the latest PalmOS 5 hatchet job. But some developers will eventually throw in the towel, with FrankenPalmOS claiming yet another victim. Well done, Palm! TVoR was wrong regarding the three year timeline. TVoR uses inaccuracies and emotions instead of facts in his arguments. Thanks for showing everyone what a fool you are. (I especially loved the pedantic (pedantical - for DrOpinnion/Jeff Kirvin) comment about the "3 YEARS" it took to try and advance the Treo 600. Yes, I was off by a whopping 3 months. Forgive me, madam. You got pown3d, Bubba. Have a seat.
RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price.
Good argument, plus, the screen is actually 4x the resolution: 160x160= 25,600 pixels 320x320= 102,400 I also assume the phone works? My 600 is afflicted with an annoying buzz and it is now used for everything except phone, smemwhat ironically, for which I temporarily have a cheap Nokia, while I wait for something...Bell has the 650 for $99, tempting. RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
hoodoo said, > Good argument, plus, the screen is actually 4x the resolution: Excellent catch! Thanks, hoodoo. During the last couple of hours, I thought of two more improvements in the 700p over the 600. * Multi-connector TVoR was wrong two more times without saying anything new! Amazing! RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
"You got pown3d, Bubba. Have a seat." One more biotch for TVoR's list... Try this again - found my copy of 'HTML for Dummies':The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/12/2006 4:14:33 PM #
> Palm has taken 3 YEARS to go from the Treo 600 to the 700p. The Treo 600 launch was September 2003. Three years would be September 2006. The 700p launch was May 2006. Let's see... so the Treo 700p was launched 2 years and 8 months after the Treo 600? Should I break it down to the # of days, hours, minutes and seconds as well? Sheesh. And since we are now in June with no better Treos than the Treo 700p available, it looks like we're at 2 years and 9 months after the Treo 600 with no significantly improved devices available from Palm. I hope you'll find it in your heart to forgive me for rounding this up to "3 YEARS"... > And what was added in that time? Bluetooth, a better screen The following are Treo 700p improvements over the Treo 600. * Bluetooth for voice and data TVoR identified the first three in his post. He ignored the last seven. Bubba, you crack me up. Really. The things you mention only emphasize how pathetically-specced BOTH the Treo 600 and the Treo 700p were. 1) Bluetooth - should have been part of the Treo 600 from Day 1 (was apparently dropped at the last minute). > Of course, several apps are now brutally, savagely broken by the Treo 700p, TVoR posted no facts to back up his claim of applications that are "brutally, savagely borken" on the 700p. http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=115147 http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=115827 Uninstall Manager Do a web search and you'll find a LOT more app that have been wiped out by the Treo 700p. As usual, many developers will go back to the drawing board and spend the time figuring out how to make their apps work with the latest PalmOS 5 hatchet job. But some developers will eventually throw in the towel, with FrankenPalmOS claiming yet another victim. Well done, Palm! TVoR was wrong regarding the three year timeline. TVoR uses inaccuracies and emotions instead of facts in his arguments. Thanks for showing everyone what a fool you are. (I especially loved the pedantic (pedantical - for DrOpinnion/Jeff Kirvin) comment about the "3 YEARS" it took to try and advance the Treo 600. Yes, I was off by a whopping 3 months. Forgive me, madam. You got pown3d, Bubba. Have a seat.
Don't use drugs, Kids.The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/12/2006 4:26:08 PM #
4) Processor speed increased from 144 MHz to 312 MHz IN 3 YEARS*??? [SNIP] 6) The camera resolution (1.3 megapixel) is STILL pathetic. Even basic featurephones have much better cameras than the Treo 700p. Some phones are up to 5 megapixels now. 1.3 megapixels would have been appropriate for a phone released in 2003. 7) Wasn't videocapture possible with previous Treos by using 3rd party apps? i.e. it looks like Palm previously was just too LAZY and CHEAP to provide users with access to features their $500 phones alredy supported! Pathetic.
TVoR RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price.
The "128mb" on the 700P is irrelevant. What matters is how much of that is LEFT OVER for the user. ~60mb free sounds decently impressive at first. But once you end up sticking "Deluxe" & updated versions of PTunes, DTG 8 etc. into RAM (Palm should really get together with Normsoft & Dataviz to offer dead-simple, idiot-proof ROM updaters for registered owners on Palm's site) you end up approaching the Treo 650's ~23mb free. I am already having to go into my 700P and prune things a bit to keep close to 30mb available--better safe than sorry. RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
My reply to the post "The Voice Of Reason" withstood his attempted rebuttals. 1. He said three years has passed between the launch timeline between the 600 and 700p. The timeline is actually two years and eight months. He was wrong. 2. He identified Bluetooth, screen resolution and increased memory as the only additions over the 600 and 700p. I identified nine other improvements. He was wrong. 3. He said "several" apps are now "brutally, savagely broken" by the 700p. He did reply with a list of applications and two Treo Central discussion links. He could not distinguish applications that misbehave because of a particular 700p flaw and applications that were miscoded by the developer from the beginning where the 700p exposed the problem. He was wrong. Of the thousands of Palm OS applications on the market, a dozen applications with problems on a new device does not match his definition of "several". He was wrong. ----- Readers: Ask yourself this question. Why are people like "The Voice of Reason" on this forum? * If they are so disgusted with Palm's product offerings, why don't they buy a different device? * Are they mentally disturbed? * Are they shorting Palm stock? * Are they compensated by Ryan to troll this forum to attract readers? * Do they really believe that vicious, unconstructive rants on an internet forum make a difference? * Why don't they take their superior handheld product knowledge and apply to work at Palm? They must lead sad, meaningless lives. I pity them. I pray for their souls... It's time for an intervention for relyons. I'm worried about her.The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/13/2006 10:40:35 PM #
My reply to the post "The Voice Of Reason" withstood his attempted rebuttals. Bwahahaha! Really? On what planet? Sorry Missy, but you couldn't debate your way out of a wet paper bag. 1. He said three years has passed between the launch timeline between the 600 and 700p. The timeline is actually two years and eight months. He was wrong. Oh dear. You seem to be insane. 2. He identified Bluetooth, screen resolution and increased memory as the only additions over the 600 and 700p. I identified nine other improvements. He was wrong. When did I say those were the ONLY changes that went into the Treo 700p? Please include a link to this alleged post. (Sorry, links to figments of your... vivid... imagination don't count.)
He could not distinguish applications that misbehave because of a particular 700p flaw and applications that were miscoded by the developer from the beginning where the 700p exposed the problem. He was wrong. Of the thousands of Palm OS applications on the market, a dozen applications with problems on a new device does not match his definition of "several". He was wrong. Wow.This is starting to get creepy. I hope for your sake that you're joking. Seriously. Let's see what I REALLY said before you twisted it around: "Palm has taken 3 YEARS to go from the Treo 600 to the 700p. And what was added in that time? Bluetooth, a better screen and a little more memory (let's be honest now) - features that should have been part of the original Treo 600 from Day 1 if only Handspring hadn't been broke. Of course, several apps are now brutally, savagely broken by the Treo 700p, so are the Treo 700 "advances" really worth it?" Hmmmm. Very interesting. Readers: Ask yourself this question. Why are people like "The Voice of Reason" on this forum? Maybe because we enjoy reading, writing + learning about PalmOS devices? Maybe because we care about the viability of an OS we're carried around with us daily (and pushed to the max as extreme power users) for over 10 years? * If they are so disgusted with Palm's product offerings, why don't they buy a different device? Maybe because they have THOUSANDS of dollars already invested in a fabulous stockpile of the best PalmOS devices ever made? (CLIES, HandEras, Tapwaves, Samsungs) * Are they mentally disturbed? Maybe ANYONE posting to a PDA site is not quite "normal"? Of course, perhaps you should go to the mirror to gaze upon a cornucopia of DSM IV diagnoses... * Are they shorting Palm stock? Maybe posts to fanboy/fangirl PDA sites have ZERO effect on stock prices? * Are they compensated by Ryan to troll this forum to attract readers? Maybe Ryan should ban your silly a$$ for trying to smear his reputation with a sleazy insinuation like that? * Do they really believe that vicious, unconstructive rants on an internet forum make a difference? Maybe vicious, CONSTRUCTIVE posts on the premiere PalmOS site are read by the leadership at Palm who have long since realized that their core users are fully aware of all the crap the company has tried to pull over the years? Maybe that realization "encourages" those "leaders" to act a bit more responsibly in their decision-making? * Why don't they take their superior handheld product knowledge and apply to work at Palm? Maybe they already have better careers and would never want to work for a company teetering two Nokia smartphones away from sudden bankruptcy? They must lead sad, meaningless lives. I pity them. I pray for their souls... Bwahahaha! Maybe you should pray for yourself instead? Drama Queens typically lead short, tragic lives. Take care.
RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
1. He said three years has passed between the launch timeline between the 600 and 700p. The timeline is actually two years and eight months. He was wrong. Mr. Data, You forgot the days, hours, seconds and milisseconds. Your internal positronic timer doesn't seem to be doing well. Please report to Mr. LaForge for immediate deactivation. Captain Jean-Luc Picard RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price.The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/15/2006 4:19:28 PM #
1. He said three years has passed between the launch timeline between the 600 and 700p. The timeline is actually two years and eight months. He was wrong.
Mr. Data, You forgot the days, hours, seconds and milisseconds. Your internal positronic timer doesn't seem to be doing well. Please report to Mr. LaForge for immediate deactivation. Captain Jean-Luc Picard Bwahahaha! (Or is this the first step of the HAL 2000's meltdown. Be careful - relyons can read lips. DAAAAAAIIIIIISSSSSYYYYYY...)
RE: He should have compared it with the 700W
You know, even if Walt had compared the Q to the 700w, he would have found a way to not give an MS product the nod by the end of the interview. "So, Walt, you've used DRDOS, and here is Windows Vista. What do you think?" "Well, Microsoft's new Windows Vista is sure packed with features, but I found it inherently more insecure than DRDOS, which has had exactly zero viruses written for it since 1995 compared with over 100,000 viruses today that plague Windows. I found the clock in Vista to be distracting as I tried to type my article, while the peaceful blink of the cursor in Word Perfect 5.0 was soothing, unobtrusive and always went exactly where you wanted it to go. It also lacked those distracting wavy red and green lines that Microsoft's word processing product put on the screen under those mispelt werds. And sentence fragments. I found DRDOS booted almost instantly, while Vista when through this comparatively long startup process. Microsoft has come a long way, but for the average consumer that just needs word processing, basic email needs and wants to play the occasional game of Tic-Tac-Toe on their computer, I highly recommend DRDOS." RE: He should have compared it with the 700W
^^ Amusing. But also a good point in favour of Palm shying away from going all-Windows; they can keep zealots on *both* sides happy!
This sig is a placeholder till I come up with something good
 Like, duhhh
This was plain dumb... 700 and Q are two different products. They don't even have the same OS. Like, duhh.... Vote for John Kerry... best man for the job. RE: Like, duhhh
Maybe.
Mossberg is a mainstream reporter who publishes in one of the most prominent newspapers in the country. Obviously, he needs to be a little careful about his criticisms. What he has done is damned the Q with faint praise, which is about harshest criticism he can make in one of his columns. The reality is that Mossberg has done to the Q what the Iceberg did to the Titanic.
The voice of ridiculousness
You keep on ripping Palm but these are the facts: You ripped Palm for not innovating enough for years. You love your Sony. Gone. Why? Palm makes money. The rest are following Palms lead again. There is no doubt the Q will be popular. Palm has already hinted at greater price point variety, possibly this year. New treos will surely be released with different form factors and other functionality, PalmOS, WM, and soon a new OS. You call Palm "greedy?" They make ONE WM device period, and it is America's fastest selling WM PPC phone of all time. Before you "crown" them HP needs to catch the king. You want "innovation?" Thats not stupid, not greedy, it is saavy business. This is business, and Palm continues to be profitable which is all that matters. You think you are so smart and Palm is run by idiots, but if they tried to do all that you suggest they would be gone by now. RE: The voice of Truth (Reason)The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/10/2006 1:13:28 AM #
You keep on ripping Palm but these are the facts: Sadly, your "facts" have no connection to reality. You ripped Palm for not innovating enough for years. Palm has not innovated in years. Their PDAs are lame. Handspring, Sony, HandEra, Garmin, Tapwave and Samsung are the PalmOS licensees that have innovated over the years. Palm merely parasitized those companies. Truth is they were ahead of the curve in seeing smartphones as the future, did its innovation there, while Hp and Dell wasted precious time and money on a market in PDAs that has maxed out. Wrong. Palm was clueless about "seeing smartphones as the future". The embarassingly inept Tungsten W showed precisely how hopeless Palm's design teams and management were. In case you didn't know (I assume you're just an insecure newbie), it was a desperate, small company called Handspring that did all of the "innovation" that Palm is still parasitizing. You love your Sony. Gone. Why? I could tell you but then I'd have to... you know... Palm makes money. Barely. The only reason they've managed to eke out some meagre profits in recent quarters is because the Treo 650/700 have not had any serious competition. Like the domestic car industry + their full-sized truck segment. Once the competition figures out the secret smartphone sauce it will be "game over" for Palm unless they can manage to get a naive company to buy them out (their ONLY chance to survive longterm). The rest are following Palms lead again. Correction: The rest are following HANDSPRING'S lead again. And they're getting closer every month. Even you know how lame the Q is. If it's small/light/cheap/sexy, the average Joe will prefer it to the Treo bricks Palm is selling. Compared to the Samsung i500, the Treos are even more "lame". Ugly and expensive seem to be Palm's modus operandi these days. Wasnt that the criticism of Palm in the past? ??? Palm has been criticized for making its products cheap as in "poor quality", not as in "inexpensive". There is no doubt the Q will be popular. The Q may or may not succeed. The point is that it's possible to make smartphones that are smaller, lighter and better looking than the Treos, and Palm's competition is finally waking up. And remember: the average Joe that owns a Treo does not use the device to anywhere near its full potential. Most people use their Treos for basic PIM (contacts, schedule), email and maybe a couple of other apps/games. Do you think anyone with such basic smartphone needs will have a problem buying a device that significantly undercuts Treos in price? Why shoud an IT department deploy a fleet of $500 Treos if a $300 Motorola or Nokia does essentially the same job? To be honest, we're now getting to the point that many regular phones come with all the "smartphone" features most people really need. So if a "free" or "nearly free" phone is "close enough" to a Treo, what do you think will happen to Treo sales? Imagine built-in Microsoft "push" email on a small clamshell device with a big screen selling for less than $200. Available from several manufacturers in 2006. If Palm maintains its "optimistic" (gouging) pricing they will soon find themselves with boatloads of unsold inventory stuffing their channels. Palm's smartphone strategy is a deck of cards and failing to innovate on Handspring's Treo 600 design over the past 3 years is the equivalent of yanking out one of the bottom cards. Palm has already hinted at greater price point variety, possibly this year. Palm cannot survive without high margin Treos unless it's prepared to compete with the Big Boys by fielding a wider lineup. And the market for high margin smartphones is EXTREMELY vulnerable right now. The Treo 650/700 market could implode literally overnight if Nokia/Sony Ericsson/HTC/Motorola release a less expensive "Treo Killer". Unfortunately for Palm, this is the inevitable endgame to their 10 year run. New treos will surely be released with different form factors and other functionality, PalmOS, WM, and soon a new OS. But can Palm release well made, stylish, bug-free, feature-laden smartphones (that also work properly as PHONES) fast enough to compete with its competition's design cycles? Given the history and level of incompetence at Palm, I'd have to say the answer is a resounding "No". Palm needs to find a buyer with deep pockets ASAP. You call Palm "greedy?" No, stupid is basing your company's entire future on smartphones and then: They make ONE WM device period, and it is America's fastest selling WM PPC phone of all time. Again, you seem to not understand how price-sensitive phones are. Up until now, Palm has had no serious competition for some strange reason. Commoditization is coming. The Era of the Treo Dinosaurs is rapidly coming to an end. Evolution is a biotch™. Before you "crown" them HP needs to catch the king. Unless Palm slashes Treo pricing (thereby killing its profits), the upcoming wave of smartphones from the competition will accelerate Palm's downward spiral. Palm is swirling in the toilet bowl. You want "innovation?" Yes. Variety of form factors? Just 2 or 3 would be fine. To save money, Palm could even recycle current designs from HTC, etc. Well they need to milk this winning form factor which is cost effective, while they are ahead in the game and people are snapping up their products, then they will have capital to expand their product range. The Treo 600/650/700 cow ran dry a LONG time ago. The "milk" Palm is getting right now looks a lot like blood. Palm's blood. Thats not stupid, not greedy, it is saavy business. No, it's stupid. For a technology company to fail to innovate year after year after year is an act of suicide. This is business, and Palm continues to be profitable which is all that matters. Short-term TRIVIAL profits coming at the expense of long-term product planning is a poor business strategy. Of course, Palm hasn't had a coherent business strategy since 1999. Don't believe me? Just ask anyone who has ever actually worked for Palm. You think you are so smart and Palm is run by idiots, but if they tried to do all that you suggest they would be gone by now. If you knew anything about Palm's history you would know how HORRIBLY mismanaged the company has been over the years. It survived only because of 3 reasons:
Kama`aina RE: The voice of ridiculousness
Mauibro said: The rest are following Palms lead again. Don't you have to be out in front to lead?
Just the facts
Maulibro said: You keep on ripping Palm but these are the facts... Well you've neglected the fact that the Treo 600 was designed by Handspring and not Palm. Palm's answer to the smartphone at the time was the Tungsten W - Palm was lucky that they had the means to buy Handspring and its Treo 600 device. Every Treo since has been a mere evolution and improvement of the original 600 design so I don't think you can claim that Treos are Palm's innovation. (There I go using the evolution word but seeing how the Treo 650 was crippled with it's mere 20MB of usable memory I don't think it's a candidate for intelligent design either :-) ) RE: The voice of ridiculousness
Well put, Maulibro. And for those of your who just want to buy a cheap smartphone, head over to Amazon.com and grab a Verizon Treo 650 for $39.99. RE: The voice of ridiculousnessgoat_fajitas @ 6/10/2006 11:51:01 AM #
"Well you've neglected the fact that the Treo 600 was designed by Handspring and not Palm. " Dood, Handspring IS Palm. They were founded by the same people, split off after Palm decided to go with USR/3Ccom, and later merged back together... PAlm CEO is Handsprings CEO and the company is One again. Also, very well put, Maulibro. YOU hit hte nail on the head. Let everyone bitch while Palm has yet another revord year, only to be topped by 20007 which will be even better. And yes, a low and with internal antenna is coming in 2006, as well as a high end with internal antenna... both a bit slimmer than the current models. RE: The voice of ridiculousness
The goat said Dood, Handspring IS Palm. They were founded by the same people, split off after Palm decided to go with USR/3Ccom You've touched on the point. The Treo 600 was created by people who found it necessary to leave Palm and create Handspring - they didn't have the confidence that the Palm owned by 3com was capable of creating such products. I think the fact that Handspring, the smaller of the two companies, created three smartphones (Treo 180, 270/300 and 600) in the time it took Palm to create one (Tungsten W) speaks volumes of Palm's pace of change and innovation. It's unfortunate (but almost inevitable) that the larger Palm dragged the Handspring talent down to its slow level when they merged. RE: The voice of ridiculousness
EdH said: Don't you have to be out in front to lead? Name another PPC phone that outsells the treo? Yes Palm is the leader.
RE: The voice of Truth (Reason)The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/10/2006 1:31:34 PM #
You think you are so smart and Palm is run by idiots, but if they tried to do all that you suggest they would be gone by now. you knew anything about Palm's history you would know how HORRIBLY mismanaged the company has been over the years. It survived only because of 3 reasons:
Kama`aina RE: The voice of ridiculousnessThe_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/10/2006 1:36:31 PM #
"Well you've neglected the fact that the Treo 600 was designed by Handspring and not Palm. " Dood, Handspring IS Palm. They were founded by the same people, split off after Palm decided to go with USR/3Ccom, and later merged back together... PAlm CEO is Handsprings CEO and the company is One again. Also, very well put, Maulibro. YOU hit hte nail on the head. Let everyone bitch while Palm has yet another revord year, only to be topped by 20007 which will be even better. And yes, a low and with internal antenna is coming in 2006, as well as a high end with internal antenna... both a bit slimmer than the current models. "Dood", you really need to stay in school. People as clueless as you are really not even worth debating. TVoR RE: The voice of Truth (Reason)The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/10/2006 1:39:46 PM #
Well you've neglected the fact that the Treo 600 was designed by Handspring and not Palm. Palm's answer to the smartphone at the time was the Tungsten W - Palm was lucky that they had the means to buy Handspring and its Treo 600 device. Every Treo since has been a mere evolution and improvement of the original 600 design so I don't think you can claim that Treos are Palm's innovation. Let's not go bringing a few FACTS into this debate, now... The "brilliant" Tungsten is exactly the kind of crap that Palm usually "innovates". Yuck. TVoR RE: The voice of ridiculousnessgoat_fajitas @ 6/10/2006 6:32:07 PM #
""Dood", you really need to stay in school. People as clueless as you are really not even worth debating." OK, you go from debating your point, to to a useless, and baseless insult. You should really change your screen name, it doesnt fit. All of your points are one sided, and poorly thought out. Obvoisly you hate Palm for whatever reason, so just don't buy one. I am sure you never would anyhow, but save the hate... Too much of that in the world already to have to propagate it over a smartphone FFS. Talk about ridiculous. LOL RE: The voice of IntelligenceThe_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/10/2006 7:02:11 PM #
OK, you go from debating your point, to to a useless, and baseless insult. You should really change your screen name, it doesnt fit. All of your points are one sided, and poorly thought out. I'm sorry if I made you cry, "Dood". Maybe you should run back to your Mommy and breastfeed some more. Meanwhile, back to the previous posts: if you are capable of refuting ANYTHING I've said here, please enlighten us. On the other hand, if you're unable to formulate a cogent response, please S T F U and spare us from your tripe. TVoR RE: The voice of ridiculousness
TVoR, nice try with the lingo. Not "haole" here, try "popolo" if you got the real vocabulary down. Kama'aina popolo raised in Hawaii. Back to topic. Palm or Handspring? The companies are for all intents merged. Todays Palm are the same Folks who created the V, and the Treo. RE: The voice of ridiculousness
Short-term TRIVIAL profits coming at the expense of long-term product planning is a poor business strategy. Of course, Palm hasn't had a coherent business strategy since 1999. Buying Handspring Returning control to the geniuses who started the company. Alocating resources and money to the Smartphone market, taking an early lead. The most brilliant strategy: Palm is making big profits of of its Treos while everyone else attempts to play catch up. Behind the scenes, they are doing there own Linux OS. Palm has hacked WM and improved it. Now Palm is regaining control of hardware and software, right about the time when Win Mob is catching up. Think about it, Palm made hideous mistakes when the braintrust left. Business strategy? RE: The voice of ridiculousness
Short-term TRIVIAL profits coming at the expense of long-term product planning is a poor business strategy. Of course, Palm hasn't had a coherent business strategy since 1999. Buying Handspring Returning control to the geniuses who started the company. Alocating resources and money to the Smartphone market, taking an early lead. The most brilliant strategy: Palm is making big profits of of its Treos while everyone else attempts to play catch up. Behind the scenes, they are doing there own Linux OS. Palm has hacked WM and improved it. Now Palm is regaining control of hardware and software, right about the time when Win Mob is catching up. Think about it, Palm made hideous mistakes when the braintrust left. Business strategy? RE: The voice of ridiculousnessgoat_fajitas @ 6/10/2006 9:08:17 PM #
Ahh... I just love the internet. You can always count on it to get slapped in the face with some of the most narrow mined crap humanity has to offer. TVoR you are a first class ass, and a waste of skin. Good luck with your life. I am out, and off to better things. RE: The akamai Voice of Sensitivity & Kindness (TVoR)The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/10/2006 9:39:01 PM #
TVoR, nice try with the lingo. Not "haole" here, try "popolo" if you got the real vocabulary down. Kama'aina popolo raised in Hawaii. Aight. Back to topic. "My man", the Handspring crew merely inherited the bridge of the Titanic a few seconds before impact. They're currently busy rearranging the deck chairs and cashing in stocks. http://finance.yahoo.com/q/it?s=PALM Palm or Handspring? The companies are for all intents merged. Todays Palm are the same Folks who created the V, and the Treo. Colligan & Co have got bupkis, Bubba. They're just trying to milk a dried up cow for as long as they can and hope some clueless company will soon come along and buy them out (PalmSource-style). Palm lacks the codemonkeys and time to make PalmLinux. Their current dual-OS "strategy" is simply a stalling tactic. Wake up, brah. Island Bois are usually smarter than you seem to be. RE: The voice of EdumacationThe_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/10/2006 10:04:54 PM #
>>>Short-term TRIVIAL profits coming at the expense of long-term product planning is a poor business strategy. Of course, Palm hasn't had a coherent business strategy since 1999. Buying Handspring Returning control to the geniuses who started the company. Come on, brah. They're not geniuses. Hawkins is a smart guy and a visionary, but let's not get crazy. Dubinsky and Colligan are a couple of leeches. Alocating resources and money to the Smartphone market, taking an early lead. Guess again. Palm was given the Treo 600 design (already SHIPPING!) on a silver platter by Handspring. The Treo 650 and 700p are an embarassment. Is that all the "innovation" Palm has to show for itself after 3 YEARS??? Pathetic. The most brilliant strategy: You might want to check your sequence of events there, brah. The $30 million was floated BEFORE the Access deal went down. Palm even created a new "poison pill" contract with PalmSource to scare other companies off from trying to buy PalmSource. Palm was expecting to actually merge with PalmSource later and would then have got the money back for doing nothing. Slick. Very slick. Only problem is Access went and fcuked everything up... But you my friend keep on ranting without even knowing the end game that is well underway. "My friend", I've been saying the end game has started for a while now. Losing PalmOS to Access = the death of the platform. Cobalt was pure sh!te, a stupid attempt to reinvent the wheel derailed by dumba$$ Holy Be Engineers more concerned with writing "pretty code" than they were with meeting actual deadlines and shipping a finished product on time. My ex-Be Biotches at PalmSource managed to destroy a second company in no time flat. Dumba$$ Gassée must be laughing. As he counts his millions. Palm is making big profits of of its Treos while everyone else attempts to play catch up. Palm is making SMALL profits. The Palm V/VX and the bogus IPOs and bogus "split" made BIG profits. Smoke & mirrors, brah. Book 'em, Dano. Murder One! Behind the scenes, they are doing there own Linux OS. HandEra knew handhelds. Tapwave knew handhelds. Sony knew handhelds. Handspring knew handhelds. Palm knows bupkis. Palm is a MARKETING company - not an engineering company - and it shows. Yet one can argue it its still better than WM on the same device (treo700) Palm has hacked WM and improved it. Now Palm is regaining control of hardware and software, right about the time when Win Mob is catching up. Think about it, Palm made hideous mistakes when the braintrust left. Business strategy? What are you smoking, brah? Jamaican? Aight.
RE: The voice of ridiculousness
Mauibro mate, your confidence is inspiring. I think you make a good point with how cheap the 650 is now; it's still a better smartphone that most of it's competition and you can now get it for the price of try-hards like the Q. It also gives me hope that Palm will be able to retain one of the 650's best features, the gorgeous screen, on the (alleged) Lowrider. RE: The voice of ridiculousness
>HandEra knew handhelds. Gone, so much for what they know. >Tapwave knew handhelds. >Sony knew handhelds. >Handspring knew handhelds. Palm knows bupkis. I know it hurts your argument but a little reminder- So don't argue with an Island Boy about something we know all too well around here because we are surrounded by em, RE: The voice of ridiculousness
Yes, the Propagandists are going crazy again, because their much-hyped 'great white hope' doesn't stack up too well against what little old Palm has to offer. It may get worse. Quarterly earnings reporting season is nearly here again. We might see some meaningful sales data on the forlorn 700w this time. Be advised: if the the 700w sales figures are as bad as some say, the Propagandists will go POSTAL. RE: The voice of ridiculousness
Mauibro said: Combine all the HP smartphones all the PPC phone flops, and the limited but cheap moto 200 series which actually sold somewhat, and ONE DEVICE the Treo 650, has made more money than them all combined. Hp has been doing this for years, and Palm releases the ONE WM device on ONE NETWORK in ONE COUNTRY and it is embarressing how it is dominating that sector. One can make a case for Rim, but we know those arent really that "Smart" Yes Palm is the leader. Wow. You sound like Carl Yankowski. You quote the past quite a bit. To be sure, the Treo 600/650 has been very successful but the past is the past. If palm were so confident in their OS and design, they wouldn't have added Windows Mobile to their stable, both in the US and coming this year to Europe. What is funny is as I type this, PIC has a banner ad at the top for the 700p. :-) The key difference between you and Yankowski is when he was bragging about Palm's past and being assured of its future, he was at the peak (he didn't know that) where the runup had been steep and HUGE, they were at 80%+ share and it seemed Palm could do no wrong. Now, 5-6 years later, you are making the same ridiculious statements but it is after Palm has jumped off of the ski slope and has share in the 20-30% range world wide and has one line paying the bills. Microsoft, meanwhile, continues to release updated operating systems every 18 months or so and HTC keeps belting out well designed products, both in Smartphone and Pocket PC form, sold by nearly every major carrier on the planet. Forget HP. Gone are the days of a single OEM manufacturer reigning supreme. It is the age of the carrier, and devices like the HTC Wizard are being sold by a dozen different carriers under a dozen different names, and the truth is, you have no clue how successful those devices are because you are living in 2001 when there were only 4 major players and it was easy to get market share data. Now there are over 40 players (the carriers) and they don't share a whole lot of data with market researchers. Their bragging rights lay in their number of customers, not the sales of a particluar no-name device they have slapped their logo on. RE: The voice of ridiculousnessAdamaDBrown @ 6/11/2006 7:03:45 PM #
And yes, a low and with internal antenna is coming in 2006, as well as a high end with internal antenna... both a bit slimmer than the current models. Everything you just said is strictly rumor, much of it completely unfounded. All we really know is that there are two more Treos coming out this year, at least one of which will be GSM and Windows based. Mauibro wrote: Huh? HP hasn't been releasing phones for years, they've had TWo phone devices released, both in the last year or so. And you do realize that the Treo 700w only constitutes about 5% of all PPC phone sales, right? Perhaps, if you count the different brandings of HTC's devices as different models, it might be the top selling single unit, but 5% isn't exactly dominating. Palm has hacked WM and improved it. What do you think Palm has "hacked" about Windows? The 700w is standard WM5 with a couple of Today screen plugins and some additions to the phone app--which is the licensee's perogative anyway. >HandEra knew handhelds. In HandEra's defense, they're "gone" because they had no money, no name recognition, no marketing, no clout with the OS owner, and they still managed to produce what was arguably the best Palm OS hardware available, even years afterwards. Remember that they had multi-gig storage, WiFi, cellular modems, etcetera YEARS before Palm Inc. ever even realized these things existed. Their inability to make an inroad had more to do with marketing than it did with technology--they simply couldn't get noticed on a large enough scale, despite their cult following in the enterprise market. Simony wrote: Actually, we already have sales figures for the 700w. For the first three months of the year (bearing in mind that availability was limited for the first couple of weeks), it constituted about 20% of Palm's Treo sales, meaning roughly 100,000 units. That's really quite good, considering that it's only available on one carrier. RE: The voice of ridiculousness
EdH Said: Wow. You sound like Carl Yankowski. You quote the past quite a bit Quite to the contrary pal, the past? The number one smatrtphone name is Treo. Now. Today. Palm makes it. Past? Let me pass you a mirror. Yeah somebody lives in the past alright. Aint me. Whats even funnier is that Tvor praises "Handspring" and Hawkins, while failing to grasp that Palm today is Handspring with money. To be sure, the Treo 600/650 has been very successful but the past is the past. It was the top selling smartphone in May. Yes it was a whole 12 days ago so I guess I am talking about the past. LOL. If palm were so confident in their OS and design, they wouldn't have added Windows Mobile to their stable, both in the US and coming this year to Europe. What is funny is as I type this, PIC has a banner ad at the top for the 700p. :-) I don't knout I kinda figure they like to make more money. 6 figure sales for the W translates to millions over a few months, using essentially the same hardware, working with MS on the OS, massive marketing campaign financed by Verizon who begged for the Treo "design" on WM. But the OS is not "theirs" in either case. I state again. Continuing to provide a WM Treo on the same hardware as a Linux based PalmOS would serve to make crystal clear how flawed WM is. I tell you all Palms not primarily looking to depend on either WM or Access. In the long term the partnership with MS will be the smartest play by Palm yet. Palm is making money, MS believes as do the "experts" that Palm has resigned itself to the fact that WM is the future. Too late, MS has helped finance a superior OS owned by Palm. RE: The voice of ridiculousness - TREOs that are coming THIS yearSeldomVisitor @ 6/12/2006 7:22:12 AM #
> ...All we really know is that there are two more Treos > coming out this year, at least one of which will be GSM and > Windows based... Actually we no longer "know" even that much. First, the CEO of PALM had that scripted clarification on what he meant by "4 new TREOs coming". There was some sort of reason PALM thought that clarification was necessary - we do not know what that reason was but there certainly was SOME reason it literally was written into his scripted words. Second, we have JP Morgan's "analyst" saying VERY loaded words ala "maybe they're gonna be late with their cheap model": So we'll just have to wait and see, eh? [the GSM model is "known" to be coming strictly because some Microsoft guy said it was, I believe, not due to anything at ALL that PALM has said overtly] |
Small size, stylish looks, high quality and low price are a lot more important than ultimate functionality. Precisely why I would never give up my Samsung i500 - even if Palm offered me a dozen Treo 700p for free.
Oh well...
TVoR