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Comments on: Digitimes Claims a Palm Linux-Based Smartphone Due This Year

Rumor: Asian industry trade journal Digitimes has a report out that Palm is readying a Linux-based smartphone for an October release. The incredibly vague article is short on details but does say that more Linux-based models are forthcoming in the near future and that the Wind River Linux underpinnings will definitely be part of this new model. The article additionally goes on to say that Windows Mobile-powered products are still on the company's roadmap and, presumably, Palm OS (presumably Garnet) devices will be left to solder on as "non-mainstream technology".

The Digitimes report directly contradicts remarks from Palm CEO Ed Colligan during the last quarterly conference call. In response to a question on next generation smartphones, Colligan clearly stated that products based on a new Linux OS would not debut before sometime in calendar 2008.

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Deja vue?

cervezas @ 8/23/2007 2:50:08 PM # Q
http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS5058819583.html

Those sources where "close to the company," too.


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Deja vue?
jca666us @ 8/23/2007 3:06:38 PM # Q
They can keep rehashing the same story over and over, but that won't make it happen.

Let's see a working Foleo unleashed upon the public - then we can worry about a linux based smartphone.

RE: Deja vue?
SeldomVisitor @ 8/23/2007 4:41:42 PM # Q
This is a giggle - it TOTALLY reminds me of The Infamous Cramer Video and what Cramer said he'd do if he had to "knock down RIMM":

== "...Then you would call the [Wall Street] Journal and you would
== get the bozo reporter on Research in Motion, and you would feed
== that Palmís got a killer that itís going to give away..."

-- http://www.midasoracle.org/2007/03/27/jim-cramers-market-manipulation-101/

Lol!

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As noted elsewhere, CEOs actually DO have to tell the truth

SeldomVisitor @ 8/23/2007 4:45:06 PM # Q
Colligan VERY unambiguously said at the last earnings conference call, as noted in the article above, that a Linux Smartphone wasn't going to be coming until sometime (not early!) in 2008.

That's that.

Period.

If PALM changed their plans they are required to say so in a timely manner, especially for something THAT material, else risk a-MAZ-ing class action lawsuits.

They didn't.

RE: As noted elsewhere, CEOs actually DO have to tell the truth
TooMuch @ 8/23/2007 6:26:32 PM # Q
SV you spat your venom at Palm for the last few days on this forum about a lacking OS development, Foleo folly, etc. regarding their smartphones. Today a report comes that they are releasing a new Linux OS smartphone this fall. Instead of acknowledging/applauding or at least acknowledging the new Linux based OS smartphone as a good venture, you attempt to justify your rants by ATTACKING MORE. :0))

Some people may have to live with the fact that Palm just won't die when a doomsdayer says it so. ;) For the stock investor, this is fun. Three years ago we played this same game. "Palm is doomed," cried the blogging critics. A few weeks later PalmOne emerged. A few months later I heard, "Cha-chink."

Linux smartphones are going to SELL big for PALM!!! (Windows Mobile is clunky. Sorry but it is.) If this thing connects simply to a simple Foleo, the whole PALM enterprise may sore higher than ever. It's about user experience and performance.

(Also, I tried the iPhone for one week. Concluded that it can't be Treo or Blackberry replacement for business as it is now.)

RE: As noted elsewhere, CEOs actually DO have to tell the truth
drw @ 8/23/2007 7:27:08 PM # Q
I agree with everything TooMuch just said. iPhone is for kids, WinMob is clunky.

I would like a svelt linux replacement for my tungsten C

---
David

RE: As noted elsewhere, CEOs actually DO have to tell the truth
SeldomVisitor @ 8/23/2007 7:28:10 PM # Q
Huh?

RE: As noted elsewhere, CEOs actually DO have to tell the truth
TreoAnon @ 8/24/2007 12:13:32 AM # Q
So you believe that Palm have moved forward the date of a Linux-based phone from Colligan's public statement of "2008"? That does not sound remotely credible.
RE: As noted elsewhere, CEOs actually DO have to tell the truth
SeldomVisitor @ 8/24/2007 6:42:46 AM # Q
No, he apparently believes the CEO lied from the get-go and never meant this at all:

== "...Michael Ounjian - Credit Suisse
==
== Great. Thanks for taking the question. I guess Ed, could you
== give us an update as to how we should think about the timing
== of new products coming out, just related to your sort of
== broader platform strategy and than also related to the new
== operating system development efforts?
==
== Ed Colligan
==
== Yeah. Well, in general a new platform strategy I think that's,
== next calendar year is the timeframe. We are not going to get
== into specifics on that. I think the reality is we will deliver
== some new smartphone products through the rest of this calendar
== year on both our Windows Mobile and Palm OS platforms. And
== product based on the new Linux-based platform that we are
== working on, that won't be until some time next year..."

-- http://seekingalpha.com/article/39702


RE: As noted elsewhere, CEOs actually DO have to tell the truth
TooMuch @ 8/24/2007 4:48:42 PM # Q
:o) I didn't address the release date rather mainly SV's recent rants of Palm doom and ignorance. Face it. If these products provide the simplicity they propose, Palm is going to climb up again with these new products WHENEVER THEY'RE RELEASED. Thus, I believe these prophesies of Palm doom and ignorance are wrong. I am not asking you to agree with me. I am just saying I think predictions of Palm ignorance & doom are wrong, and that SV seems unwilling to deal with Palm having a future of success. :)

RE: As noted elsewhere, CEOs actually DO have to tell the truth
TooMuch @ 8/25/2007 11:45:12 AM # Q
SV earlier said that Colligan "unambiguously" said Palm would not release a Linux handheld until 2008. Now he gives the direct quote which never says this "unambiguously." Again, SV OVERSTATES THE CASE. "I think" is what Colligan said in June. When coupled with statements made by Colligan in April that they may release a Linux handheld in late '07 you can see that "I think" is quite a few steps removed from "unambious." Anyone reading the context of it all can reason that it is possible that Colligan is describing a company working to get a product out but is unsure about delivery times. Of course SV could jadedly be confused that my interpretation is that Colligan is a bold-faced "liar." Or maybe the attack on Palm planning was a "lie from the get-go and never meant at all." :)

Again, I don't care if they release a Linux handheld this fall or next year. Just calling out the ranting & ridiculous cynicism.

RE: As noted elsewhere, CEOs actually DO have to tell the truth
SeldomVisitor @ 8/25/2007 3:35:35 PM # Q
You are simply obsessed and stupid.

RE: As noted elsewhere, CEOs actually DO have to tell the truth
twrock @ 8/25/2007 9:15:08 PM # Q
RE: As noted elsewhere, CEOs actually DO have to tell the truth
cervezas @ 8/27/2007 2:48:17 AM # Q
So many things happening within Palm right now, I would suppose, what with Jon Rubinstein and Paul Mercer taking influential roles and bringing in strong visions about hardware and OS design, respectively. It seems pretty likely that executive statements made as recently as June bear scant relationship to what Palm is planning to do today. Mercer may have brought in some technology from Pixo that would fill in key pieces of the new smartphone OS and possibly move up target release dates. But if Rubinstein's influence is felt in the near term I would think it would be more to shake up product plans and attract more hotshot talent, neither of which would be likely to accelerate the release of products that are already well into the pipeline.

There is one possibility that I proposed last year when it was starting to look clear that Palm was doing their own Linux OS (see http://www.pikesoft.com/blog/index.php?itemid=59) and if Palm decided to take this path it could make sense out of this rumor. Let's say that with these new heavy-hitters from Apple coming in to Palm there are some big changes taking place in the plans for the next gen Palm OS--changes that will take more time to bear fruit that first planned. Meanwhile Palm has this problem that Palm OS Garnet is ill-equipped to support the HSDPA or EVDO Rev B 3G standards. Suppose while the new OS is under development they took a baby step toward a new Linux OS that looks more like a port of the Garnet middleware to a Linux kernel than a completely new OS like ACCESS has created. There would be a Garnet VM, as in ALP, but tearing a page out of Motorola's playbook they would not release a native Linux SDK. They *would* however rewrite a few key built-in applications in native Linux in order to satisfy the multitasking requirements of the newest 3G networks: the phone application at a minimum, possibly browser, media player and email as well. From the user standpoint, this OS could look and feel very much like Palm OS Garnet, except that you could take calls and download emails or web pages at the same time.

This is pretty much just wild speculation, of course. But if there turns out to be something to the rumor it wouldn't surprise me too much if the apparent acceleration of the release as compared to what Colligan thought out loud back in June was due to a decision to make the OS transition in two smaller leaps instead of one big one.


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: As noted elsewhere, CEOs actually DO have to tell the truth
SeldomVisitor @ 8/27/2007 8:05:47 AM # Q
> ...Suppose while the new OS is under development they took a baby
> step toward a new Linux OS that looks more like a port of the Garnet
> middleware to a Linux kernel than a completely new OS like ACCESS has
> created...

"Garnet middleware" ==> "Garnet GUI" et al?

> ...They *would* however rewrite a few key built-in applications...

"rewrite" ==> "not Garnet compatible in reality"?

> ...From the user standpoint, this OS could look and feel very much
> like Palm OS Garnet...

That is ALL I think PALM will port. At most.

RE: As noted elsewhere, CEOs actually DO have to tell the truth
cervezas @ 8/27/2007 8:44:43 AM # Q
That is ALL I think PALM will port. At most.

Heh. Now there's a surprise.

It would be amusing to see what you would "think" if you actually had to put real money down on your predictions (the ones you make here anonymously for the public "benefit," not the ones you make in private, that is). I'd be happy to offer you a friendly wager to help you prove your sincerity to the readers here. Care to play? :-)



David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: As noted elsewhere, CEOs actually DO have to tell the truth
SeldomVisitor @ 8/27/2007 8:46:52 AM # Q
Huh?

RE: As noted elsewhere, CEOs actually DO have to tell the truth
cervezas @ 8/27/2007 10:48:28 AM # Q
Didn't think so. ;-)


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: As noted elsewhere, CEOs actually DO have to tell the truth
hkklife @ 8/27/2007 11:20:43 AM # Q
David et al;

On a more technical note, did we ever determine with absolute certainly IS FrankenGarnet could handle the requirements for EVDO Rev. A (forget about Rev B & HSDPA for the time being)?

I was always under the assumption until the very latest round of rumors about the Centro that Rev.0 was as good as it was going to get in regards to 3G connectivity in a Garnet-based device (barring some major OS hacking from Palm).

IF Palm has managed to get Rev.A working under Garnet (how would it be possible without true multitasking for the simultaneous voice & data?), then that would lead to a logical conclusion that some $ had been spend to shore up Garnet. So it'd be foolish for Palm to abandon it after this one final model....and the Treo 680's new phone app UI would also be dead in the water after appearing on just two phones as well.

I would not be too terribly surprised if somehow Palm gets out a slightly refreshed Garnet (OS 5.5, perhaps?) for this Centro and perhaps another device or two in '08. They could borrow a few UI bits from both PLinux and the refreshed Garnet UI bits on the 700p/680 while adding in, say, EVDO Rev. A support and A2Dp into Garnet That would let them coast along for another year pretty decently (at least with CDMA carriers).

The Centro could be Palm's "hip" new lower-cost line that would exclusively run devices based on the updated Garnet. Then the flagship Treo line could be a hodge-podge of rebranded WM devices and carryover Garnet 5.4.9 models that are replaced over the next 6-9 months with PLinux units.

Not a bad strategy, actually. We've actually seen this in minor fashion before from Palm. Recall how the Tungsten W of 2002 was the final OS 4 unit and borrowed some tech from the new OS5 line (320x320 screen res, primarily).

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: As noted elsewhere, CEOs actually DO have to tell the truth
cervezas @ 8/27/2007 11:43:03 AM # Q
Not absolute certainty, no. It's silly to say "impossible," really. It's just a question of whether it's a big enough change that, given all the other factors that weigh on the question of OS change, Palm would consider it more worth its while to leave Garnet's basic architecture alone and just move to Linux. Since that seems to be the direction they're going, I'm guessing that we probably won't see any Garnet phones with advanced 3G capabilities (HSPDA or EVDO Rev B).

Does EVDO Rev A require simultaneous data and voice? I was under the impression that it did, but when I went out to do a quick check on that I didn't find anything to that effect. It looked to me like that doesn't come along until Rev B. (Someone please correct me on this.) If so, I'm not aware of a problem with Rev A and Garnet.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

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Maybe...

Gazpacho @ 8/23/2007 6:47:25 PM # Q
.... the writer was just mixing things up. Heard about this Linux OS somewhere and concluded that it should be on the next Treo.

And, uh, guys: the Foleo is not a subnotebook. Palm would not like hearing that from you. ;)

http://foleocentral.blogspot.com

FoleoCentral is the news, opinions & review blog about the Palm Foleo Mobile Companion

RE: Maybe...
jackpipe @ 8/24/2007 1:47:05 AM # Q
More likely they got the wrong year. It's October 2008....

RE: Maybe...
jackpipe @ 8/24/2007 1:49:52 AM # Q
And we now know what the fooleo is all about ... It's a case of getting some hardware (anything) running the new OS out the door early for developers. ie the fooleo is a developer's prototype platform.

Reply to this comment

I've 'soldered' plenty of stuff on my TX, but...

twrock @ 8/23/2007 8:25:55 PM # Q
Palm OS (presumably Garnet) devices will be left to solder on as "non-mainstream technology".

Anyway, I am looking forward to whatever Palm has to offer in a Linux smartphone, whether it be late 2007 or into 2008. But 2008 sounds a lot more likely to me, particularly give what Colligan has said. Just keep that Garnet support in there and maybe developers will provide native Linux apps to cover my "essentials" list.

As someone stated previously (about the Foleo), take your time Palm, but just get it right!


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/

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Access seems near ready with Plinux

joad @ 8/24/2007 2:02:04 AM # Q
Maybe Palm's OWN version won't be out for another year+++. Maybe they'll just license the Palm Linux that Access has running fairly well right now. I'm not interested in being EITHER of their guinea pigs for the first PalmLinux device(s), but the emulation Access was demoing at the big Linux show in SF wasn't looking too shabby.

I know programming an OS isn't quick and simple, but does it make sense that Palmsource and Palm have been going on what - over 5-6 years with this Linux changeover? Is it like 3 guys working out of a van in the Sunnyvale parking lot or something? Before Fooleos and Gandolphs and whatever else they want to distract themselves with, it seems that getting a damn decent build of the next generation operating system out the door should be the absolute "JOB ONE" for somebody there. WinceMob isn't much to talk about, and the only real strength Palm has is the Treo and it's monopoly of the Palm operating system. Fooleoing while Rome burns.

Reply to this comment

Speaking of Linux on phones...

SeldomVisitor @ 8/28/2007 8:58:35 AM # Q
-- http://tinyurl.com/yrc25v

The link is to an Ameritrade-delivered news item - it probably will go dead relatively soon, unless someone finds the same info via a more-long-lived article.

RE: Speaking of Linux on phones...
hkklife @ 8/28/2007 10:37:50 AM # Q
Linux to Be the Fastest-Growing Smartphone OS over the Next 5 Years, According to ABI Research

Last update: 8/28/2007 8:15:01 AMLONDON, Aug 28, 2007 (BUSINESS WIRE) --

Over the next 5 years, Linux is expected to be the fastest growing Smartphone OS with a compound annual growth rate in excess of 75%. By 2012, a recent study from ABI Research forecasts the Linux-based OS to account for nearly 31% of all smart devices in the market -- representing more than 331 million cumulative shipments over the same period. Research director Stuart Carlaw states, "Serious initiatives from the likes of Intel and Access are gathering pace and momentum, whilst the carrier community continues to identify Linux as one of the few operating systems that it intends to support in its long-term plans." Carlaw adds, "Linux is benefiting from growing support in the handset OEM community, most notably Motorola, but also Nokia with less traditional types of devices aimed at mobile broadband applications." The rise of mobile broadband and the impact that this has upon device convergence and format plays into the hands of Linux. The vertical and horizontal fragmentation that has plagued this market continues to be a concern; however, the recent patent infringement assertions from Microsoft -- that Linux, in its generic form, infringes upon 235 of its patents -- is an ongoing concern. Many Linux pundits point to this as being old hat, while others indicate that there is no smoke without fire. The ABI Research study entitled, "Mobile Linux"( Linux) found that there are several challenges still facing the proliferation of Linux in this environment. This study explores these barriers, provides a frank SWOT analysis of the mobile Linux offering, and supplies forecasts for Linux uptake in mobile devices for commercial OS implementations and RTOS replacement. It forms part of ABI Research's annual Mobile Devices Research Service ( Service), which includes other Research Reports, Research Briefs, Market Data, Online Databases, ABI Insights, and Analyst Inquiry Support. (Due to their lengths, these URLs may need to be copied/pasted into your Internet browser's address field. Remove the extra space if one exists.)

Founded in 1990 and headquartered in New York, ABI Research maintains global operations supporting annual research programs, intelligence services, and market reports in broadband and multimedia, RFID and M2M, wireless connectivity, mobile wireless, transportation, and emerging technologies.

For information, visit , or call +1.516.624.2500. SOURCE: ABI Research
ABI ResearchNicole Fabris, 516-624-2542pr@abiresearch.com

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

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