Comments on: Treo 680 Release Date and Pricing

Treo 680Rumor: An internal Cingular presentation on upcoming devices has been leaked on the web. The presentation includes information on the launch and pricing details for the Palm Treo 680. According to the leaked documents the 680 will be a Cingular exclusive when it debuts in the US and its launch announcement will come on November 6th. It is expected to debut for $199 depending on the selected contract and rebates.
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SeldomVisitor @ 10/28/2006 6:50:33 PM # Q
Titled something like "Take with a grain of salt" or some such.

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So much for 'low end'

jfme @ 10/29/2006 9:09:55 AM # Q
At $424.99 I guess I will stick to my two-device solution: one tiny slim phone and a full 320x480 screen wi-fi capable pda...
RE: So much for 'low end'
retrospooty @ 10/29/2006 9:27:35 AM # Q
I am not sure how long you have been alove, but typically, release date prices and proces 2 months later are very different. The Treo 680 is expected to be anywhere from $99 to totally free w/2 years contract within a few months.
RE: So much for 'low end'
retrospooty @ 10/29/2006 9:29:45 AM # Q
meant to say alive, not alove =)

RE: So much for 'low end'
SeldomVisitor @ 10/29/2006 11:25:12 AM # Q
Expected by who?

Certainly not by ANYONE who has listened to PALM management recently, watched PALM historically, or seen the latest rumors including the one that this article mentions!

RE: So much for 'low end'
AdamaDBrown @ 10/29/2006 2:19:14 PM # Q
So with a $425 full retail, then what, $500 unlocked do you think?

RE: So much for 'low end'
AdamaDBrown @ 10/29/2006 2:41:24 PM # Q
Assuming, obviously, that Palm sells an unlocked version.

RE: So much for 'low end'
ChiA @ 10/29/2006 3:48:15 PM # Q
aloveretrospooty said
but typically, release date prices and proces 2 months later are very different

I suggest you look at the current price of an unlocked Treo 650 from Palm's UK store. £400 (US$760) for a Treo 650 is outrageous, especially with the imminent release of the Treo 680 and the current availability of the cheaper Nokia e61 and WinMob phones with wi-fi.

Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital. Aaron Levenstein

RE: So much for 'low end'
vixensjlin @ 10/29/2006 9:16:20 PM # Q
Highly likely the price of Treo680 will drop like crazy.

The treo650 + 2year is already $25 (yeah, twenty-five) at Amazon and at some retailers in Chinatown.

RE: So much for 'low end'
freakout @ 10/30/2006 12:31:16 AM # Q
Assuming, obviously, that Palm sells an unlocked version.

They will. Actually, buying unlocked from them'll be the only way to get one of the pretty colours: http://www.palm.com/us/products/smartphones/treo680/

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650

RE: So much for 'low end'
AdamaDBrown @ 10/30/2006 2:25:58 PM # Q
I was aware that they're only selling the colored versions direct, but I wasn't sure whether they'd be selling them unlocked or locked to Cingular at the $425 standard retail price.

Reply to this comment

If the Treo 680 is $424.99, why is the Treo 700p $619 - $649?

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/29/2006 12:50:48 PM # Q
If the Treo 680 will be $424.99 with no contract then why the He11 is the Treo 700p $619 - $649? Are consumers getting something extra with that additional $200, or is this just pure profit that Palm has been extracting from loyal/desperate PalmOS fans? Hmmmmm... While my Treo 700p will end up costing me around $299 once all the rebates finally arrive, I believe most other early adopters paid a lot more for theirs. The Treo 680 pricing makes me feel most Treo 700p users got fleeced...

Time is running out. Palm's lineup over the past 3 years proves they don't have what it takes to compete with the Big Boys as a handset provider. As WordPerfect, Netscape, etc have shown us, once a company enters its death spiral the end tends to come quickly. Palm has had to offer a ton of rebates to get their inventory moving, so the Treo cash cow is already drying up. If the competition continues to take increasingly bigger bites of Palm's share of the smartphone pie and that pie isn't getting much bigger, how is Palm planning on making any money from now on? We've seen 3 years of mildly reheated versions of that tired old Treo 600 design and enough is enough. While I believe a $99 Treo 680 with contract is actually a good deal, in order to offer that kind of pricing for carriers Palm would have to be making huge cuts in its profitability just in order to maintain market share. Ed Colligan has already hinted that Palm's profits are about to nosedive and he's already using the excuse of needing to maintain market share to justify the upcoming tsunami of red ink. Very clever, but quite mendacious.

Palm has become a one trick pony and that (Treo) pony is starting to look like a lame, busted-up old nag compared to the slick new competition. In a year, even a "free" (with 2 year contract) Treo 680 will not be competitive with what Nokia, HTC, Motorola, Sony Ericsson, Samsung et. al will be offering.

Palm killed its PDA business on purpose, but that cold, calculated gamble seems to have backfired. By feeding into the myth that consumers didn't want PDAs and failing to innovate in that sphere, Palm created a self-fulfilling prophecy. Yes, in 2006 no one wants a $400 standalone PDA that has exactly the same (or even LESS) features they could have got in 2003. But had Palm innovated and added features like video playback with simplified DVD conversion software, VoIP, integrated cellphone radios, OLED screens, GPS, clamshell or slide-out keyboards, improved battery life, etc., the "traditional" (i.e. non-smartphone) PDA market would not be moribund.

Now that Palm has abandoned traditional PDA users, wouldn't it be ironic if the PDA market makes a resurgence as soon as a new manufacturer enters the sphere with a device that finally offers all the ingredients people have been begging for? I recently tried out the Sony mylo. It's not quite yet ready for prime time, but had Palm come out with a similar device running PalmOS they could have had a HUGE hit this year. A $299 PalmOS mylo-type device, a $299 PalmOS device with all the bells and whistles, a $199 Tungsten TX refresh and a $99 Zire with an SD slot and an MP3 player-centric design could all have easily (and cheaply!) been produced and would have given Palm a KILLER PDA lineup in 2006. Instead, Colligan et.al. threw all their eggs into the Treo basket, only to see that basket get crushed/commoditized/cheapened by devices like the Motorola Q.

Unless they get bought out, how can Palm recover from all of these mistakes? And more importantly, does Palm still have ANYTHING to offer a potential suitor that makes them worthy of the current asking price? At this point in time (LATE 2006), the only assets Palm has are the Palm name and the Treo name. Together, they might be worth $1,000,000,000 to the right company. Unfortunately, Palm's latest corporate game (propping up its stock price/market cap with a stock buyback) has artificially inflated the stock price compared to its true value (Palm's current market cap is around $1,600,000,000), so only a very wealthy and/or stupid company would pull the trigger at that price. Then again, the dumba$$es at Sirius paid $500,000,000 just for Howard Stern, so maybe there really is a sucker born every minute. I had heard that ****** was looking at buying Palm. We'll know before the end of the year if those rumors were true. Or if Palm's stock manipulation games scared them off...


TVoR

RE: If the Treo 680 is $424.99, why is the Treo 700p $619 - $649?
matt_laughs @ 10/29/2006 7:25:56 PM # Q
the 680 is now on the www.palm.com website and store


You really upset me by mentioning stern, i subscribe to sirius, he brought over 5 million people, and counting, and that meants in 8 1/2 monthes they already paid for his deal by him coming and taking a place with half a million and now to 5 1/2 million and helping them get contracts with car makers to factory install sirius, etc. I personally bought my mom and sister units and pay my moms subscription. i am a truck driver. every trucker has xm sirius, do the math. I dont care what your political views are, please keep them to yourself, in advance. I am talking something we all care about $.

now to palm, yeah they are concentrating on smart phones, so is everyone else who sells anything, ipaq being the only exception, and compaqs ceo was caught using a blackberry. check palmzone. what else was left to do to innovate the pda, it does internet, graphics, multimedia, wifi bluetooth, etc. there isnt really anything to improve on, that warrants a new pda. they tried the hard drive, people didnt like it. the next improvement is the smartphone, and maybe some people just want a pda, and not a smartphone, well thats like wanting a typewriter, not a computer. and some people have alot of use for typewriters but ibm did not abandon the typewriter they went on to make the laptop.

they are doing such a good job with the 680 i am thinking of getting rid of the two year old t5, pda one trick pony data device for something with true multimedia, microphone, a camera, video, conversation recorder, a real character input with high speed modem,voice recognition.

And because i know its supported better as far as upgrades go, than pda software and new third party software. the new concealed attenna makes it much more suitable as a main cellular phone, i couldnt put that old treo in my pocket and go into a bar for instance.

They bought back stock because they had a huge quarterly profit and buying common stock to put it in reserved stock insures noone can buy the majority of your stock in a hostile takeover. It also makes the shareholders more money if they get bought out or *merged*. needless to say.

If most major cellular companies (cingular verizon and sprint) are all offering YOUR brand of PDA ........AND you keep showing profits, that is the definition of success for this company. and when people like me have the only company (tmobile) that doesnt carry them, and we still buy the palm one.

lets get this straight, they didnt abandon traditional pdas, they advanced a pda as far as a pda will ever be good for, and now its time to try new technology, you dont hear people saying 'mead you abandoned the spiral notebook for new wireless notebooks' because they failed to innovate a classic but finished product.

ford abandoned the car market by not adding more wheels, pizza hut abandonded the pizza market for not going from triangular slices of pizza to pyramid shaped slices, its ridiculous.

and i always bought my pda to use with a phone anyway. and when i write in the future i think the treo keyboard wil take some getting used to, but i wont get annoyed when writing a page of material in wordpad. and i wont have to carry around a bluetooth pda keyboard. i am not afraid of change, but microsoft, they never innovated in their life. they copied, or else their original pocket pcs wouldnt look exactly like palm pdas, blackberry may look different in design, and they are, it doesnt even do html pages.


thats what she said!

RE: If the Treo 680 is $424.99, why is the Treo 700p $619 - $649?
matt_laughs @ 10/29/2006 8:20:03 PM # Q
in one sentance you say they cant handle the big dogs, then you say they scared people off from buying them out, so who is the big dog now?

you say the pocket computer market isnt getting much bigger, funny i read on one of these palms site, citing a study it was the fastest growing segment of cell or computer market. and the cell phone was the single most successful piece of electronics in history, beating out the tv.

not many computers, can you even buy without some kind of rebate, nowadays, its no 'downward spiral' and treos and pdas and regular camera phones that happen to do a very limited amount of multimedia. amped mobile is a joke. helio ? ive yet to find what the hell it is, it has to be a cell phone, or a nuclear bomb, cause they wont say what the hell is diferent about it on their site last time i looked.


your entire post, like many other posts on here, is misinformation, dis information campaigning, slanderous for the fact you said they manipulated stock, maybe YOU should be charged of the sec for insider trading, trading secrets, and mentioning rumors of them being bought out. you are now trying to manipulate stock price by going to news site and paying to post an ad that slanders palm, you didnt get your internet, computer, for free or off a tree did you, you paid. and i would bet money it was claimed last year as a bussiness expense to offset your gross income.

this is what they call subliminal advertising, public relations and advertising people do it. they also go into chatrooms and maybe cingular is doing it to this site right now the 680 doesnt appear to be exclusive to cingular. none of the 680s on the palm site have a cingular logo on them,

before i was a truck driver, i worked for cat logistics, programming pdas, and phones for sprint, that was the very last temp job my agency sent me to before i got my cdl, now i occassionally haul cingular phones out of a place right by graceland up to ups in ky. and oh yeah the cellular market does desperate things, to keep marketshare, like paying full price to haul a high value load of cell phones when the 53foot trailer is only 10 foot full, sounds pretty lucrative to me, and they can still afford to pay rebates on it you say, wow. and at sprint we only had 1-2 persons who knew how to program pocket pcs per shift, because there wasnt much of a need, and 3-4 people to program wireless cards and palm treos.


people look at a pocket pc and they go 'wow you just made annoying even smaller and more compact, now i can take irritation with me wherever i go' 'wow this will complicate my life so much easier'



thats what she said!

RE: If the Treo 680 is $424.99, why is the Treo 700p $619 - $649?
fierywater @ 10/29/2006 8:35:02 PM # Q
"what else was left to do to innovate the pda, it does internet, graphics, multimedia, wifi bluetooth, etc. there isnt really anything to improve on, that warrants a new pda. they tried the hard drive, people didnt like it."

I don't comment often, but I take issue with this statement. There was and still are plenty of things Palm (or any other company) could have done to advance their PDAs. Better batteries, faster processors, better form factors, better screen technology (OLED, maybe?), advanced mobile video chipsets...these are blatantly obvious potential advancements.

Palm's PDAs weren't even the most advanced of the species. They effectively rehashed the same technology for years. GPS never happened. WiFi happened on a grand total of two of their PDAs and it's still not on their smartphones. Implementing the hard drive didn't fail because people don't like hard drives; it failed because the capacity didn't make up for the loss in performance and reliability that resulted with the LifeDrive. If a LifeDrive-sized device came out with a 30gb hard drive, that would be different. 4gb is pathetic and was pathetic even then.

And I didn't even mention the fact that OS5 is so far beyond its years that it's not even funny anymore.

RE: If the Treo 680 is $424.99, why is the Treo 700p $619 - $649?
matt_laughs @ 10/29/2006 8:56:17 PM # Q
so let me get this straight, a pda that does mpeg 2 instead of mpeg 1, has oled instead of lcd, and decodes video faster, even tho at the fatest rate an lcd can refresh will be the same, is a reason to bring out a new pda, interesting.

just out of curiousity, what would an OLED, mpeg 2 decoder chipset, 30 gig minature hard drive with acceptable read/write times, what do you figure that would cost right now? 2 grand? 1 grand? maybe as cheap as 800 bucks?


if its such a good idea, why isnt anyone else in the entire world coming out with anything oled, or any minature 30 gig drives or mpeg 2 chipsets the size of a dime.


and a faster processor? your on crack, in one sentance you say more battery life, then you say faster cpu, which is it, you cant have both, and they dont make the chips, intel does.

next thing your gonna say is palm is abandoning the pda market for not bringing about nano technology.

'yeah man, nano is actually cheaper to make cause uh, you use less copper and stuff dude cause its smaller man'

thats what she said!

RE: If the Treo 680 is $424.99, why is the Treo 700p $619 - $649?
matt_laughs @ 10/29/2006 9:10:13 PM # Q
os5 well i know its not as advanced as a blackberry XML cell phone esque browser.
access is a hardware rom company, not a software company,
how many things included in the o/s arent even made by them, but licensed, pocket tunes, word to go, versamail, realplayer.l

cause they put a calculator and a planner in, now they are a software company? blazer is the only thing i am prety sure they wrote, and i would bet that was contracted out.

yeah it sucks there is a demand for new smart phones, and with that demand access has to make operating systems and software to work with all of them that come out, and release updates, how many times has microsoft let you update a pocket pc o/s even in the slightest, i heard they dont offer upgrades.

yeah it really sucks smartphones give us a middleground without the less computer saavy, a middleground with a ton of new software on it, weehhh poor us.

thats what she said!

RE: If the Treo 680 is $424.99, why is the Treo 700p $619 - $649?
freakout @ 10/30/2006 12:05:20 AM # Q
people look at a pocket pc and they go 'wow you just made annoying even smaller and more compact, now i can take irritation with me wherever i go' 'wow this will complicate my life so much easier'

ROFL. Nail. Head.


RE: If the Treo 680 is $424.99, why is the Treo 700p $619 - $649?
ChiA @ 10/30/2006 6:01:17 AM # Q
in one sentance you say they cant handle the big dogs, then you say they scared people off from buying them out, so who is the big dog now?

People are scared of buying Palm not so much because it's a big dog but because it's one rabid little terrier with razor sharp teeth - it has nothing to offer but pain, misery and death.

What does Palm have to offer an investor?
Innovation? Don't make us laugh, even by Colligan's own admission, the Treo 680 is at the same technical level as the Treo 650. Many cell phones on the market now come with more features than any Treo, nevermind smartphones.

Operating System? Certainly not the Palm OS

Knowledge of the Cellphone market? Even Palm has admitted that it's a market it's trying to get into.

Intellectual Property? See innovation.

The only thing Palm brings to the market that's unique is the Treo name, the Treo form factor and the mythical ease of use of the Treo.
Maybe nobody's buying Palm because nobody really wants to.

Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital. Aaron Levenstein

RE: If the Treo 680 is $424.99, why is the Treo 700p $619 - $649?
ChiA @ 10/30/2006 6:21:12 AM # Q
what would an OLED, mpeg 2 decoder chipset, 30 gig minature hard drive with acceptable read/write times, what do you figure that would cost right now? 2 grand? 1 grand? maybe as cheap as 800 bucks?

$249 if you lose the OLED. They're called iPods and Creative Zen media players.

They're part of the reason why PDAs didn't become as popular as predicted.

Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital. Aaron Levenstein

Palm is Being Slowly Squeezed in a Pincer Movement
ChiA @ 10/30/2006 6:26:26 AM # Q
by the media player makers on one side (Apple, Creative, Sony etc) AND smartphone makers on the other (Nokia, Sony Ericsson, HTC, Motorola, RIM). I was hoping that the Treo 680 would be the A-bomb that saves Palm's bacon; it's looking more and more like a damp firecracker...

Still, if Palm releases it at the right price it could still buy Palm more time.

Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital. Aaron Levenstein

RE: If the Treo 680 is $424.99, why is the Treo 700p $619 - $649?
SeldomVisitor @ 10/30/2006 7:58:48 AM # Q
> ...Maybe nobody's buying Palm because nobody really wants to.

Yup yup yup.

It's cheaper to contract with HTC than it is to buy PALM.

And that literally is ...no kidding...


RE: If the Treo 680 is $424.99, why is the Treo 700p $619 - $649?
matt_laughs @ 10/30/2006 9:16:02 AM # Q
not to mention mpeg 2 is just a higher resolution codec, a resolution the palm can not even display......... and the ipod analogy, now your saying just mpeg 2 warrants a new handhield, noone is gonna run out and buy a handhield because it supports a resolution that the display doesnt, oled would go hand in hand...... ipod doesnt have any operating system overhead, same reason a gaming system can do what a much more expensive pc can, its not a multi purpose machine with memory overhead because of the o/s


as far as the 650/700/680 differences go, maybe we are different

but to me the old design with the attenna sticking out, seemed about as practicial, due to its size, as walking around a crowded concert with an errection.


and as far as noone wanting to buy palm, i wanted to buy palm stock, they got paid dividends last quarter, they didnt split stock like most companies. and they have a ton of cash, a bunch of profit, and sorry i misspoke about reserved stock, its called private stock, but you get the idea.

thats what she said!

RE: If the Treo 680 is $424.99, why is the Treo 700p $619 - $649?
matt_laughs @ 10/30/2006 9:25:14 AM # Q
and what sounds like something more practical and user friendly.

ipaq 890 pocket pc with windows mobile edition 2005 revision 2

palm treo 680 powered by access v.5.4


thats what she said!

RE: If the Treo 680 is $424.99, why is the Treo 700p $619 - $649?
SeldomVisitor @ 10/30/2006 9:26:27 AM # Q
> ...they got paid dividends last quarter...

I think you want to do a wee bit more Due Diligence before hitting the "investing" ranks...

RE: If the Treo 680 is $424.99, why is the Treo 700p $619 - $649?
AdamaDBrown @ 10/30/2006 11:54:44 AM # Q
"not to mention mpeg 2 is just a higher resolution codec"

Uh, the codec in general, and MPEG2 in particular, has little/nothing to do with resolution. It has to do with video encoding and quality per given bitrate. You can encode just about any codec you like at any resolution. Also, the LCD's refresh rate isn't the performance bottleneck in playing video on a mobile device, it's always the CPU. Continuing in that vein, dedicated video hardware isn't the difference between MPEG1 and MPEG2, it's MPEG4/Divx/Xvid, as well as 3D acceleration for producing graphics on the level of many handheld gaming consoles. Faster processors wouldn't be a problem if Palm implemented speed-stepping. And Palm did not pay dividends last quarter. They haven't paid dividends in over three years.

I'd go on, but I have more important things to do.

RE: If the Treo 680 is $424.99, why is the Treo 700p $619 - $649?
fierywater @ 10/30/2006 12:41:14 PM # Q
"just out of curiousity, what would an OLED, mpeg 2 decoder chipset, 30 gig minature hard drive with acceptable read/write times, what do you figure that would cost right now? 2 grand? 1 grand? maybe as cheap as 800 bucks?

if its such a good idea, why isnt anyone else in the entire world coming out with anything oled, or any minature 30 gig drives or mpeg 2 chipsets the size of a dime."

First off, I named things that could easily be done to advance the PDA, I never gave a timeframe for such advancements. You claimed that the PDA could not be advanced any farther, and I proved you wrong.

That said, with the proper R&D, such a device could be brought out at a sub-$400 price point within a few years. Without the OLED, within months. OLED is not used in current devices because the technology hasn't been developed to the point where it's cost-effective yet. You'll most likely see it eventually, but the problem is that no one's put the money into that particular technology yet.


"and a faster processor? your on crack, in one sentance you say more battery life, then you say faster cpu, which is it, you cant have both, and they dont make the chips, intel does."

So I suppose the PDAs from Dell and other manufacturers with 624mhz XScale processors don't count? Intel has made faster chips, as has Samsung. And, as previously said, speed-stepping would allow these processors to achieve good battery life.

By your reasoning, new PCs shouldn't be released just because of faster processors or better video cards or more memory, because they function fine just the way they are.

Advancement isn't rocket science, it's necessary. Palm has not advanced the PDA in ways that it clearly could, and has thus abandoned the PDA market just as most companies have.

This guy HAS to be a TROLL.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/30/2006 2:46:27 PM # Q
Bubba, you crack me up. The rambling, confused, punctuation-less, kneejerk posts. The bizarre, creepy, tangential details. Surely the work of a David Schlesinger nom de plume. Let me guess: you set up the Palminfocenter account today JUST to respond to me, didn't you, Bubba? Well done, Grasshopper.

First of all, your numbers about the effects Howard Stern has had on Sirus' membership are completely, utterly wrong. Edumacate yourself before you post more "misinformation, dis information campaigning":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Xm_sirius_subscribers.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirius_Satellite_Radio

what else was left to do to innovate the pda, it does internet, graphics, multimedia, wifi bluetooth, etc. there isnt really anything to improve on, that warrants a new pda. they tried the hard drive, people didnt like it. the next improvement is the smartphone, and maybe some people just want a pda, and not a smartphone, well thats like wanting a typewriter, not a computer. and some people have alot of use for typewriters but ibm did not abandon the typewriter they went on to make the laptop.

As several posters have tried to inform you, there are still a LOT of things left to improve on with PDA design. And you seem oblivious to the biggest problem with smartphones: SIZE. (As in screen too small to use comfortably and phone too big to carry comfortably.)

in one sentance you say they cant handle the big dogs, then you say they scared people off from buying them out, so who is the big dog now?

In what alternate universe, praytell did you see me mention big "dogs"? Palm may lose its buyer simply because it is overvalued for what it offers a potential suitor. Period.

you say the pocket computer market isnt getting much bigger, funny i read on one of these palms site, citing a study it was the fastest growing segment of cell or computer market. and the cell phone was the single most successful piece of electronics in history, beating out the tv.

Actually, I said "If the competition continues to take increasingly bigger bites of Palm's share of the smartphone pie and that pie isn't getting much bigger, how is Palm planning on making any money from now on?" Studies lumping Symbian phones into the mix (calling them all "smartphones") are meaningless. Palm's target market for Treo sales is true smartphone users (not featurephone users who happen to have a phone running a so-called smartphone OS) and - ignoring the bogus effects Symbian has on the numbers - this market has seen disappointing growth in recent quarters.

your entire post, like many other posts on here, is misinformation, dis information campaigning, slanderous for the fact you said they manipulated stock, maybe YOU should be charged of the sec for insider trading, trading secrets, and mentioning rumors of them being bought out. you are now trying to manipulate stock price by going to news site and paying to post an ad that slanders palm, you didnt get your internet, computer, for free or off a tree did you, you paid. and i would bet money it was claimed last year as a bussiness expense to offset your gross income.

U R 2 funny.

before i was a truck driver, i worked for cat logistics, programming pdas, and phones for sprint, that was the very last temp job my agency sent me to before i got my cdl, now i occassionally haul cingular phones out of a place right by graceland up to ups in ky. and oh yeah the cellular market does desperate things, to keep marketshare, like paying full price to haul a high value load of cell phones when the 53foot trailer is only 10 foot full, sounds pretty lucrative to me, and they can still afford to pay rebates on it you say, wow. and at sprint we only had 1-2 persons who knew how to program pocket pcs per shift, because there wasnt much of a need, and 3-4 people to program wireless cards and palm treos

The fact that you worked at Sprint underscores how useless their employees generally are...

just out of curiousity, what would an OLED, mpeg 2 decoder chipset, 30 gig minature hard drive with acceptable read/write times, what do you figure that would cost right now? 2 grand? 1 grand? maybe as cheap as 800 bucks?

Try $400. The parts are all available. TODAY.

People are scared of buying Palm not so much because it's a big dog but because it's one rabid little terrier with razor sharp teeth - it has nothing to offer but pain, misery and death.

;-O

not to mention mpeg 2 is just a higher resolution codec, a resolution the palm can not even display......... and the ipod analogy, now your saying just mpeg 2 warrants a new handhield, noone is gonna run out and buy a handhield because it supports a resolution that the display doesnt, oled would go hand in hand...... ipod doesnt have any operating system overhead, same reason a gaming system can do what a much more expensive pc can, its not a multi purpose machine with memory overhead because of the o/s

Wow. You're utterly clueless.

but to me the old design with the attenna sticking out, seemed about as practicial, due to its size, as walking around a crowded concert with an errection.

I would have thought someone as small as you are would be happy to carry a Treo "Falsie".

and as far as noone wanting to buy palm, i wanted to buy palm stock, they got paid dividends last quarter, they didnt split stock like most companies. and they have a ton of cash, a bunch of profit, and sorry i misspoke about reserved stock, its called private stock, but you get the idea.

"Investors" like you have made a LOT of money for a LOT of OTHER people. Thanks for sharing.

Stay in school, Bubba


TVoR

Looks like Mr. Schlesinger went back under his bridge...
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 11/1/2006 10:25:36 PM # Q

.
Reply to this comment

freakout needs the help of a friendly, trusting American

freakout @ 10/30/2006 12:53:21 AM # Q
Howdy fellow PIC readers

As you may or may not care I'm an Aussie. Being Australian gives one a number of unique natural advantages over other humans; most notably in brain and genitalia size.

However, one area where we are sadly deficient is the timely release of new Palms. Frequently, we can be left waiting months for new Treos and the like. I'm very tired of it, and what's more, I'm also very concerned that just like with the Black Tie 650, Australia will be shafted when it comes to a choice of colours with the new 680.

So, I appeal to your good nature! I appeal to your Paypal account! I need a US proxy to buy and send me an unlocked Crimson Treo 680 from the Palm store when it becomes available. I would of course pay in advance, and probably even kick in $20 for your trouble. (That's fair, isn't it? Considering all you'll have to do is take delivery and pop it in the post...)

If you're interested, drop me a line at freakout87 AT gmail DOT com.

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650

RE: freakout needs the help of a friendly, trusting American
SeldomVisitor @ 10/30/2006 8:00:13 AM # Q
> ...Being Australian gives one a number of unique natural
> advantages over other humans; most notably in brain and genitalia
> size...

Isn't that because there are no females in Australia (*)?

Lack of use does that to a person...

[(*) In the deep distant past I seem to remember some sort of program to attract women to Australia - I remember no details, however, but it could have been as attractive as free airfare or something]

RE: freakout needs the help of a friendly, trusting American
naio21 @ 10/30/2006 9:33:02 AM # Q
But the lack of females wouldn't make his natural advantages to atrophy? :-)

Ivan
RE: freakout needs the help of a friendly, trusting American
freakout @ 10/30/2006 3:18:30 PM # Q
^^ Not the brains, at any rate. ;)

SV, there was a program to attract women to Australia. Pamphlets containing a centrefold of myself wearing nothing but an Akubra were air-dropped over several countries. The campaign was halted when we saw a 600% increase in female migration, leading to a radical national gender imbalance. After much debate, the decision was made to remove the "To ravage Tim" checkbox from the "Reasons for Wanting Australian Citizenship" form.

It's still on the tourist visa application though.

RE: freakout needs the help of a friendly, trusting man
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/30/2006 3:46:58 PM # Q
SV, there was a program to attract men to Australia. Pamphlets containing a centrefold of myself wearing nothing but an Akubra were air-dropped over several countries. The campaign was halted when we saw a 600% increase in male migration, leading to a radical national gender imbalance. After much debate, the decision was made to remove the "To ravage Tim" checkbox from the "Reasons for Wanting Australian Citizenship" form.

It's still on the tourist visa application though.


NOW we know why Australia has the highest concentration of gay males outside of San Francisco. You GO girl!

TVoR


RE: freakout needs the help of a friendly, trusting American
hkklife @ 10/30/2006 3:57:19 PM # Q
So basically:

If New Zealand was settled as a penal colony then Australia is, essentially, a penile colony?

;-)



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: freakout needs the help of a friendly, trusting Urologist
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/30/2006 4:49:59 PM # Q
So basically:

If New Zealand was settled as a penal colony then Australia is, essentially, a penile colony?

Yes - a very SMALL penile colony...


TVoR

Holy disappearing posts, Batman!
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/30/2006 4:53:51 PM # Q
Being Australian gives one a number of unique natural advantages over other humans; most notably in brain and genitalia size.

Earlier, I innocently asked something to the effect of "Why do Australians boast about their small brains and tiny genitalia requiring less resources to keep functioning?" This legitimate question awaits an answer. No doubt the Aussies out there slowly mouthing this post to themselves are thinking as hard as they can in an effort to come up with a cogent response...


TVoR

RE: freakout needs the help of a friendly, trusting American
freakout @ 10/30/2006 5:49:21 PM # Q
Voice, Voice! Don't be so coy! There's no need to disguise your obvious attraction to me with racial slurs. If you want to ask me out, just get it over with. I may even send you a copy of the centrefold if you behave yourself...
RE: freakout needs the help of a long subject line
freakout @ 10/30/2006 6:54:01 PM # Q
When did Australians become a "race"?

Oh, settle down you pedantical sheila. When "cultural slurs" didn't have quite the same ring to it. :P

Be careful with the microscope. We wouldn't want to put an eye out...

RE: freakout needs the help of a friendly, trusting American
Docta G @ 10/30/2006 7:43:45 PM # Q
If New Zealand was settled as a penal colony then Australia is, essentially, a penile colony?

Settle, Petal

more vanishing acts!
freakout @ 10/30/2006 9:45:00 PM # Q
Hey! Where did TVoR's insults RE: mine and Australia's manhood go?! We're more than happy to defend our honour and completely derail the discussions on your site, Ryan. ;)
RE: freakout needs the help of a friendly, trusting American
Ryan @ 10/31/2006 1:30:57 AM # Q
I know you can take it Tim. I just didn't want things to go too down the tubes on this thread.
probably not the right place anyway.....
freakout @ 10/31/2006 2:59:33 AM # Q
Fair enough. On the original subject, can someone think of another way for me to get my hands on one of the red 680s at launch? One that doesn't involve me getting fleeced on ebay or appealing to the charitable side of fellow gadget freaks (which, judging from my still empty inbox, doesn't exist...)

Palm.com doesn't ship overseas and they'll apparently only available through them and their retail stores.

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650

RE: freakout needs the help of a friendly, trusting American
SeldomVisitor @ 10/31/2006 6:35:56 AM # Q
> ...I just didn't want things to go too down the tubes on this thread.

Me, neither!

-- http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/fish/a/candiru.htm

Needless to say, them Aussies better stay FAR away from the Amazon!

RE: freakout needs the help of a friendly, trusting American
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 11/1/2006 4:28:30 AM # Q
can someone think of another way for me to get my hands on one of the red 680s at launch?

Are you SURE it isn't the pink one you want?

TVoR

RE: freakout needs the help of a friendly, trusting American
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 11/1/2006 4:28:30 AM # Q
can someone think of another way for me to get my hands on one of the red 680s at launch?

Are you SURE it isn't the pink one you want?

TVoR

I've got the spraypaint ready
freakout @ 11/1/2006 6:32:35 AM # Q
Girlfriend, it's going to be so hot...
RE: freakout needs the help of a friendly, trusting American
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 11/1/2006 11:13:30 AM # Q
Sthawp it...
RE: freakout needs the help of Captain Underpants!
SeldomVisitor @ 11/2/2006 6:43:52 AM # Q
> ...Being Australian gives one a number of unique natural
> advantages over other humans; most notably in brain and genitalia
> size...

Ah, NOW we know what's really going down:

-- http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/oukoe_uk_life_australia_underwear

It's LITERALLY all a façade!

WHOWOULDATHOUGHT!?

Giggle.

Cool. Where do I get some?
freakout @ 11/2/2006 11:47:59 PM # Q
Those undies are a result of the brain capacity. Only an Aussie could think up such a useful idea. ;)
Reply to this comment

Imagine that...

retrospooty @ 10/30/2006 9:56:40 AM # Q
An article about Palm became a bitchfest for all the haters... Gee that rarely happens.

Buy what products you want to buy, thats part of a free market economy... I think Palm will do well with this one, and I am sure all the haters will be there hating the next release as well.

RE: Imagine that...
ChiA @ 10/30/2006 12:58:04 PM # Q
Palm has given many consumers a good reason to hate them - they don't listen or are unable to provide what their customers want (oh and lack of software updates for the 700p).

I'm amongst the many who will like a stable Palm OS handheld or smartphone with wi-fi. Palm has the arrogance to think it knows better than the people who wish to buy their products ("wi-fi kills battery life" blah de blah blah blah - we heard the same with colour screens from Palm in the 90s).

Palm's inability or reluctance to make a Palm OS smartphone with built-in wi-fi or even wi-fi card support means it's handing potential smartphone buyers to its competitors on a plate.

Yes, the free market is deciding and it's deciding for Symbian, Windows Mobile and Blackberry smartphones. If Palm's lucky they'll still be enough people like you buying their mediocrity to keep them profitable.

I wish Palm could "get with the program" and start selling compelling and innovative products again.


Now imagine that...
...there was a more dynamic company which can release products based on (what's left of) the Palm OS.

On that note, if Access were to license Palm OS to HTC and they were to use it on their current products that will pretty much kill off Palm.

Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital. Aaron Levenstein

RE: Imagine that...
ChiA @ 10/30/2006 1:18:24 PM # Q
Even Palm acknowledges that the market favours Windows Mobile over the current Palm OS Treos.

If the Palm OS Treos were so superlatively brilliant there wouldn't have been any need to create the Treo 700w, 700wx or 750!!!

Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital. Aaron Levenstein

RE: Imagine that...
matt_laughs @ 10/30/2006 3:21:31 PM # Q
motion picture editor group look it up

never paid dividends on their preferred stock, or their *common* stock (which is stock you buy to make money by trading, you buy prefferred to make dividends when they show a quarterly profit)


funny how ive only went to windows mobile sites to see if it was worth getting, it doesnt interest me.

'i dont have the time'? your obviously putting alot of thought into this, i type fast, i think fast, sorry you find this to be so grueling. i saw a trained monkey who could type.



thats what she said!

RE: Imagine that...
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/30/2006 3:52:42 PM # Q
i type fast, i think fast, sorry you find this to be so grueling.

You. Might. Want. To. Slow. Down. A. LOT.

i saw a trained monkey who could type.

Was he in your mirror?

Just Wondering.

TVoR

RE: Imagine that...
hkklife @ 10/30/2006 5:01:30 PM # Q
Oh, ChiA/TVoR et al;

For what it's worth the 700P took its first step towards oblivion for me the other day. Frustrated at the treatment towards 700p purchasers by both Verizon and Palm, I bought a Moto RAZR V3m to use until I figure out what to do next. The price was right and its RF performance as a phone is splendid compared to the Treo. The RAZR (and all of its offspring/knockoffs) is small & sleek enough to carry anywhere and the FF is proven. What more can you ask for (other than Palm PDA compatability)?

The 700p will continue to be carried for the forseeable future (SANS voice plan, just with a $50/month data package) but I'll be using it as a mobile web/e-mail device and nothing more. If Palm releases a solid ROM update for the 700p in the near future (unlikely) then I may revisit it (also unlikely). If someone hacks the TX to let it do BT DUN with CDMA handsets then the 700p will be sold ASAP. Otherwise I may have reached the end of a decade-long Palm OS road, as there are simply NO MORE options for me.

ONE GSM POS Treo and ONE CDMA POS Treo (one that is hobbled beyond belief) does not give one much in the way of choices. I need rock-solid BT performance, access to my e-mail and the web ANYWHERE and a 320*480 screen. Palm doesn't want to give us any of that in a single device (PDA or Smartphone or otherwise).

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Imagine that...
AdamaDBrown @ 10/30/2006 5:30:13 PM # Q
Okay, I'll skip right past the fact that you replied to the wrong thread.

motion picture editor group look it up

There is no such thing. The Moving Picture Experts Group, on the other hand, is the body which produces the MPEG standards--which again, have nothing to do with video resolution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPEG

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPEG-2

never paid dividends on their preferred stock, or their *common* stock (which is stock you buy to make money by trading, you buy prefferred to make dividends when they show a quarterly profit)

Palm Inc. dividend history:

http://investor.palm.com/dividends.cfm

'i dont have the time'?

No, I have more important things to do than keep explaining to you how you're wrong.

your obviously putting alot of thought into this,

Actually, it's all elementary debunking work, easy as pie. Of course, it's bound to be easy to me, since I know the difference between a codec and a bitrate, and the difference between "your" and "you're."

hkklife, out of curiousity, did you get the V3m with GPS navigation that they've been advertising?

hkklife: Don't be a Treo 700p victim. Empower yourself!
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/30/2006 5:37:50 PM # Q
Oh, ChiA/TVoR et al;

For what it's worth the 700P took its first step towards oblivion for me the other day. Frustrated at the treatment towards 700p purchasers by both Verizon and Palm, I bought a Moto RAZR V3m to use until I figure out what to do next. The price was right and its RF performance as a phone is splendid compared to the Treo. The RAZR (and all of its offspring/knockoffs) is small & sleek enough to carry anywhere and the FF is proven. What more can you ask for (other than Palm PDA compatability)?

The 700p will continue to be carried for the forseeable future (SANS voice plan, just with a $50/month data package) but I'll be using it as a mobile web/e-mail device and nothing more. If Palm releases a solid ROM update for the 700p in the near future (unlikely) then I may revisit it (also unlikely). If someone hacks the TX to let it do BT DUN with CDMA handsets then the 700p will be sold ASAP. Otherwise I may have reached the end of a decade-long Palm OS road, as there are simply NO MORE options for me.

ONE GSM POS Treo and ONE CDMA POS Treo (one that is hobbled beyond belief) does not give one much in the way of choices. I need rock-solid BT performance, access to my e-mail and the web ANYWHERE and a 320*480 screen. Palm doesn't want to give us any of that in a single device (PDA or Smartphone or otherwise).

hkklife, why are you torturing yourself like that?

First of all, you're paying through the nose with Verizon. With my Sprint SERO plan + retention & other discounts I'm paying around $35/month for unlimited EVDO, 1250 anytime minutes, unlimited free roaming onto the Verizon network, unlimited nights (starting at 7 p.m.) and weekends, and 500 text messages. Despite Sprint's pathetic customer service, even if Sprint's coverage in your area sucks, there's no reason not to switch, since you can just force roaming onto Verizon if necessary. The carriers are nothing but voice/data pipelines, and Sprint has the best deal going.

If you have to stay with Verizon, I think the Samsung A930 and A990 phones would have been a LOT better choices than the RAZR. The RAZR is one of the worst phones I've ever seen. Nothing but style over substance. The ones I've used have had crappy voice quality, poor UI, poor ergonomics, and seemed cheaply-built. And now that any trailer trash kiddie can get a RAZR for "free" with contract, every dumbba$$ in America seems to be carrying one. So much for having an "exclusive" phone... I have a Samsung A920 as a backup phone and even though the Samsung i500 blows it away in terms of voice quality, I'd pick a CDMA Samsung phone over a CDMA RAZR any day.

Why don't you end the frustration by picking up a European (Bluetooth + Wi-Fi) CLIE TH55? 320 x 480 screen (works for all apps if you add the utility "Landscape" by Mobile Stream: http://www.mobile-stream.com/landscape_info.html). The TH55 is the best traditional PalmOS PDA ever made, has amazing battery life, is superbly constructed and should easily give you several years of dependable service. Plus you can hook it up to a tiny Bluetooth phone and finally dump your Treo 700p. Until smartphones become good PHONES and address the screen size issue, they'll always be niche products. As I've said before, I believe smartphones will quickly go the way of the dinosaurs as more so-called dumbphones/feature phones evolve to include things like high res cameras, MP3 players, TV receivers, video calling, etc. Not many people will be able to justify carrying a smartphone if their feature phone offers them 95% of a smartphone functionality at a fraction of the size/cost.

I'm going to keep my Treo for use as an EVDO modem for my ThinkPad. I'm also still hoping for a REAL PalmOS Skype client.

I'm betting that within a year or so someone is going to come out of left field with a "nouveau" PDA that gets ALL the features right and generates huge sales. Of course, all the manufacturers (ironically, including Palm) will then be tripping over themselves trying to release a device in this "new" category ASAP. Let's call them "intelligent Personal Organizational Devices or iPODs. Is that name taken yet? Ooops.

TVoR

RE: Imagine that...
matt_laughs @ 10/30/2006 5:51:53 PM # Q
wikipedia can be edited by anyone, look at the end of the sections, do you see the blue edit button, its not a real encyclopedia. its written by anyone with some free time.

nice link, now click the link on that page that says, stock calculator and say you invested money back in 2003, a 1000 bucks worth of stock and now its worth 3 thousand and you made 100 bucks on dividends.

how many dividends do you see now?

since their 2000 ipo they paid 3 dividends, you arent a fast reader, either. it seems.

now go back to 2000 and lay down a grand on the stock caculator, you lose 984 bucks on the stock, but see, you made 3 dividends, stock market sucks....

thats what she said!

RE: Imagine that...
jfme @ 10/30/2006 6:06:51 PM # Q
Did you see the Cingular 8525 in the Presentation???!!!

http://www.linquist.net/life/2006/10/27/treo-680-cingular-8525-info/

400MHZ, WI-FIb/g, Bluetooth 2.0, 2MP Camera..

Imagine that...

RE: Imagine that...
SeldomVisitor @ 10/30/2006 7:08:24 PM # Q
PALM has not paid any dividends.

Stock splits are not money in the pocket, the spinoff of PSRC and/or merge of HAND were not dividends.

RE: Imagine that...
AdamaDBrown @ 10/30/2006 7:42:38 PM # Q
TVoR wrote:
even if Sprint's coverage in your area sucks, there's no reason not to switch, since you can just force roaming onto Verizon if necessary.

Catch is, you can roam onto Verizon for voice, but not for data. :P

matt_laughs wrote:
wikipedia can be edited by anyone,

And its information is accurate about as often as the Encyclopedia Britannica.

You just refuse to accept the fact that you're completely wrong on this, don't you? Do you want a job in the White House?

nice link, now click the link on that page that says, stock calculator and say you invested money back in 2003, a 1000 bucks worth of stock and now its worth 3 thousand and you made 100 bucks on dividends.

My God, you're like some kind of running internet parody. You use the fact that they paid their last dividend in May of 2003 as evidence that they paid dividends last quarter? Seriously, you're pulling a prank on us, right?

since their 2000 ipo they paid 3 dividends, you arent a fast reader, either. it seems.

I've got it--you're secretly Donald Rumsfeld. Because you can never seem to address a point without changing the question. Care to show me on that page where last quarter's dividend is, Mr. Buffett?

Thanks. I haven't gotten this much of a kick out of yelling at someone online in a long while. :)

RE: Imagine that...
matt_laughs @ 10/30/2006 8:03:48 PM # Q

since you dont know anything about this is seems except what it told to you in the simplest terms. heregoes.
in short what happens is the board decides what do with last quarters profit, pay off debt, buy back stock,split, or pay dividends and that decision was probably just made but the check has yet to be mailed so i could not tell you. read up on the stock market first before you pretend to know something about it.

thats what she said!
RE: Imagine that...
hoodoo @ 10/30/2006 9:58:31 PM # Q
"Why don't you end the frustration by picking up a European (Bluetooth + Wi-Fi) CLIE TH55?"

I believe the TH55 that was sold in Canada also has WiFi, my next door neighbour has one. Although, they're probably quite rare.


RE: Imagine that...
fierywater @ 10/31/2006 1:57:11 AM # Q
"Thanks. I haven't gotten this much of a kick out of yelling at someone online in a long while. :)"

He got two (well, three now) replies out of me, that has to be a record. I almost never post. When someone gets this lurker stirred, there must be copious loads of BS about.

RE: Imagine that...
freakout @ 10/31/2006 3:39:21 AM # Q
Until smartphones become good PHONES and address the screen size issue

Ah, but screen size isn't an issue with a smartphone. Actually, I'd consider to be one of the main reasons to upgrade from a regular phone. In comparison to your usual phone the Treos and E61s of this world have bright, gloriously readable displays that put your standard phone LCD to shame. Sure, if you're moving from a PDA to a smartphone then it'll be a very painful shift, but for an upgrading phoneowner it's manna from heaven.

The GSM Treo 650's RF performance is perfectly adequate. It has never, ever been an issue for me in the almost two years I've owned it, and I've never had anyone tell me my phone reception is poor (except in bad coverage areas, of course). And the actual phone UI itself is wonderfully thoughtful and looks to improve even further with the 680.

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650

RE: Imagine that...
hkklife @ 10/31/2006 9:26:49 AM # Q
Adama;

Yes, it's the VZ Navigator-ready V3m. I'm amazed at how well their Navigator works (on supported devices). It has the two-tone silver exterior and black interior color scheme. It also adds the TransFlash/MicroSD slot that the previous V3c lacked.

I'm pleased to report that this v3m is 2 firmware revions newer than my old v3c was. The TF slot is crippled by VZW but still better than nothing at all. I'm also glad to say that the build quality has improved considerably since my early-run V3c and the v3m's battery is supposedly slightly higher capacity (50/100mAh?) than the regular RAZR's.

Voice;

I'm on a Verizon company plan so as long as I bring the hardware, I can have my monthly cell/data bill covered. Also, Verizon's coverage is sooo much better where I live and work. My 700p on VZW has 1x in areas where a colleague's Sprint 700p is totally dead (but both Treos have miserable voice performance) I'm also on very good terms with the local corporate store's manager & lead technician since we send a lot of business their way each year.

The TH55 is, as it has been for the last 2.5 years, a lovely unit that's hobbled by its hard buttons and lack of large capacity FAT32 filesystem (2gb/4gb) Memory Stick compatability.

Well, I've got my data plan-only 700p, my trusty TX, and my V3m for my voice needs. If the TX & RAZR could do BT DUN I'd be compeltely set. Until then I'll probably be doing a THREE-DEVICE SHUFFLE to try and stay one step ahead of Palm & Verizon's greed & incompetence.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Imagine that...
retrospooty @ 10/31/2006 9:59:32 AM # Q
Chia,

#1. The 700p has been out for a few months. What software update are you expecting?

#2 (should possibly be #1) If you dont like Palm products, and they don't offer the features you want, then dont buy them. Its that simple. I personally have no need at all for Wifi. I have EVDO and I get broadband everywhere I go. Wifi is pointless and useless to me, so I dont want a product that has it.

#3. I am not sure what you mean by slamming Palm saying even they know winmobile is superior... They use both, so people that want both can potentially buy thier products (if the features are to theri liking)

just curios... What smartphone do you use, and what would you buy right now if you were in the market for one?

RE: Imagine that...
SeldomVisitor @ 10/31/2006 10:36:34 AM # Q
> ...What software update are you expecting?...

This one:

-- http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=127063

RE: Imagine that...
hkklife @ 10/31/2006 10:54:17 AM # Q
The 700P has been available for nearly 6 months. That's ample time to release at least one firmware update. Palm could, at the VERY least, make a statement and/or offer an explanation about some mistimed memory modules or some DB/NVFS bug causing the slowdown like they did with the 650. No need for free 128mb SD cards, just a solid, honest statement.

My feeling is that one of the two following scenarios will happen:

1. 700p is quietly shelved (ala T|T) sometime after Christmas and replaced with a CDMA 750p on Sprint/Verizon with the 750v formfactor but Palm OS 5.4.9. The extra tweaks seen on the 680 will be present and the lag and battery drain will be mysteriously resolved. The poor souls who signed up for a 2-year contract for a 700p in 2006 will still be under contract and will end up either giving up on Palm entirely or buying a 750p for full retail price (~$600+). A firmware update for the abandoned 700p is never issued.

2. The 700p will be sold for another 6-9 months until the final stocks are gone. No ROM update is ever released and it's up to the 3rd party developerps to try and work around the issues (ala Normsoft et al).

Either way, 700p owners are in a bad spot. That's why I have given up on mine as a daily use unit and replaced it with a RAZR + TX combo (again).

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Imagine that...
goat_fajitas @ 10/31/2006 12:24:03 PM # Q
I dunno. My 700p works perfectly, no major issues at all. I do occasionally get that slowdown/lag but its rare, and resolves in just a few seconds.

If you arent happy with it, there is always Ebay... Sell it and get one of the far superior products on the market. Just curious, what error free product would that be?

RE: Imagine that...
ChiA @ 10/31/2006 1:17:52 PM # Q
Software updates? Look at how many firmware upgrades and revisions have been created by Sony Ericsson, Nokia etc for their dumbphones over the past two years. The K750i has had 14 revisions over the past two years. That's not to say it's original software was buggy - my dad's k750i works very well and is yet to have a firmware upgrade - it just shows their commitment to improve and expand their products after market.

I wonder if the people who think Palm shouldn't bother with updates to the Treo software are the same kind who buy a new desktop each time Microsoft releases a new service pack for Windows.

If you dont like Palm products, and they don't offer the features you want, then dont buy them.

Yea, my life will go on without a Palm product but if everyone feels the same way as me then there won't be any life left for Palm.

I am not sure what you mean by slamming Palm saying even they know winmobile is superior
I said that the market seems to prefer WinMobile not that it's superior (Albeit it's superior in offering smartphones with wifi). Releasing WinMob Treos is an admission by Palm that it has failed to convince sectors of the market that its Palm OS Treos are better than WinMobile devices.

I'm still stuck with a 650 and frustrated with the lack of memory and lack of wi-fi.
My ideal handset will be the HTC TyTN running Palm OS. I'm considering getting that and running StyleTap on it. I really dislike the WinMobile interface - I still find it counter-intuitive. sadly it seems Palm is pushing me towards WinMobile...

Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital. Aaron Levenstein
RE: Imagine that...
ChiA @ 10/31/2006 1:42:37 PM # Q
Sell it and get one of the far superior products on the market. Just curious, what error free product would that be

Another example of Palm arrogance. Other manufacturers once informed by their consumers try to improve their products and fix unforseen errors with updates.

Palm, of course, releases 100% error free products which explains why it has no need to release any updates for its products.

I guess all the "issues" that have been complained about with the Treo 700p aren't errors or bugs but "undocumented features".

Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital. Aaron Levenstein

RE: Imagine that...
goat_fajitas @ 10/31/2006 5:32:21 PM # Q
Chia, you just sound angry.

I dont recall reading anywhere that Palm said they released 100% bug free products, nor do I see anyone on this thread stating that.

In fact, there were several updates for Treo 600, 650 and at least 1 for 700w that I am aware of so far.

The bottom line is simple, if you arent happy with Palm, dont buy their products. Whining about it on this forum wont change anything.

RE: Imagine that...
ChiA @ 10/31/2006 6:47:34 PM # Q
I'm not angry, just disappointed with Palm's current offering as someone who has bought previous products from them. I had been under the impression and expectation that this company was capable of so much more.

I was highlighting the fact that Palm doesn't seem to pay as much attention to product updates as other equivalent manufacturers.

As for whining, it's funny how you're whining about my posts. I have to wonder what you are doing in these forums if you think this forum doesn't change anything.

Many of the people who read and post on Palminfocenter are power users and early adopters. These are the very people who evangelize and enthuse about a product providing free powerful marketing for a company. It appears Palm have been ignoring this group for some years now.

Most tech companies aim to make the very best product they can for the premium user then make cut down or crippled versions of the product for the less well off or more miserly consumers.

Sadly Palm seems to have turned this concept on its head - it's starting with the crippled design and is slowly removing the limitations.

What does the Treo 680 offer to a 650 user other than extra memory, no aerial and a slightly slimmer profile?

Now compare the 680 to a 700p. You're getting 1.3 Megapixel camera and EV-DO for your extra $200. Well that $200 can buy you a stand-alone 5 Megapixel camera with optical zoom. It can even buy you a dumbphone with a 2 Megapixel camera in the UK.


RE: Imagine that...
freakout @ 11/1/2006 1:51:06 AM # Q
What does the Treo 680 offer to a 650 user other than extra memory, no aerial and a slightly slimmer profile?

Pretty colours! Pretty new phone app! Pretty new 700p-style Messaging app! (yes, I'm the type who is distracted by shiny baubles)

I'm not really hankering for a better-quality camera in my smartphone. Fact is your phone is probably going to receive much rougher treatment than a digital camera and it's more likely than not the lens will eventually be scratched, cracked etc. If Palm can keep costs down by using a VGA cam (which, if I may say so, does very nice shots considering it's only got 0.3mp to work with) I'm happy.

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650

RE: Imagine that...
retrospooty @ 11/1/2006 7:01:35 PM # Q
agreed on the camera bit... All camera's in phones suck, whether its a .3 or 5 megapixels, they are all CMOS camera's and look crappy when compared to a real camera. They do the job OK for a phone though. Like wifi, its useless to most people that would buy a Treo.
RE: Imagine that...
ChiA @ 11/1/2006 8:30:03 PM # Q
Talk about sour grapes!!! Correction, you'd find that all cameras in Treo phones suck. If cameras are useless to most people who would buy a Treo then why does Palm put the crappiest of all cameras into them in the first place?

I'd rather have the wi-fi than the camera. I'd bet many more people would buy Treos if they had wi-fi instead of crappy cameras.

RE: Imagine that...
retrospooty @ 11/1/2006 11:05:55 PM # Q
OK... I give. You win. Palm is aweful.
Stop biotching about the biotching. BIOTCH.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 11/1/2006 11:18:09 PM # Q
OK... I give. You win. Palm is aweful.

No they aren't. They're awful.

People like you are the reason why Palm has sold primitive, cheaply-made hardware at premium prices for so long. Having an nice, intuitive OS does not give a company carte blanche to fleece its core customers year after year. Apple is another offender, but at least they also sell style as they gouge their cult members customers.

Don't mistake user frustration with Palm for hatred of the OS or the company. With VERY few exceptions, all of the people reading + posting to this site are PalmOS enthusiasts that simply want to ensure the platform has a long, healthy life and that there will be a regular stream of interesting devices to choose from in the future. Everyone has been waiting in vain for a glimmer of hope that the platform is going to recover. It's now November, 2006 and how many PalmOS PDAs have we seen released this year? How many PalmOS smartphones significantly different from the Treo 600 have we seen? Perhaps that explains the pessimism. The fact that I, or anyone else here continue to buy PalmOS products despite what we know about Palm's reputation for (poor) quality and pitiful customer support speaks volumes about how much we are committed to the platform. Unfortunately, Palm's indifference to its customers has gradually driven away even its most ardent supporters. Each month more and more former PalmOS fanatics walk away in disgust. With the backbone of hardcore users exiting stage left (en masse) and better/cheaper/flashier options coming from the competition to lure away OS-agnostic and OS-oblivious current Treo users, it's inevitable that Palm's customer base will sag and then quickly collapse next year.

Palm should fear the day that no one is complaining here at Palminfocenter. Because that will be the day that people have officially given up on the company. My own experience with Palm's flagship Treo 700p makes me wonder if that day may be sooner than anyone would have ever predicted even 6 months ago.

TVoR


RE: Imagine that...
hkklife @ 11/2/2006 1:31:31 AM # Q
For the record, we've had one lameduck handheld launch in '06 (Garmin iQue 3000) and two POS Treo launches (700p & 680).
I feel that the 680 is the last hurrah of POS in several ways.

I could care less about Palm's pitiful support policies since at least I know where to look for support from other users. Palm's lack of updates and utter silence on the 700p's "issues" (perhaps acceptable to some but not this user). The lag/poor voice quality/resets on the 700p are UNACCEPTABLE to anyone who realizes they can get better phone performance from a 5-year old V60 and snappier operation on a 5-year old m505.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Imagine that...
freakout @ 11/2/2006 2:54:13 AM # Q
While being more than happy with my Treo experiences thus far (blissed-out, really) it seems obvious even to this fanboy that Palm are missing rather obvious opportunites to make money and broaden their user base. Most of the complaints here are quite reasonable, even if I don't agree with some (alright, a lot ;) )of them.

I really think Palm could use a "Premium" line of products - i.e. PDAs with everything (cellular radio/wi-fi/bluetooth/higher-quality cameras/plenty of internal storage). They wouldn't have to make huge quantities of them, but it would do a lot to give Palm the appearance of being on the cutting edge again and also be a nice present to the faithful who've been with them all these years and watched competitors integrate the features they've been clamoring for.

But who knows what their plans will be once they've decided on their future OS. THAT is what I'm most eager to hear about. What's so hard about just telling us what their next OS will be? Are they worried it will completely nuke sales of Garnet devices, or what?

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650

RE: Imagine that...
goat_fajitas @ 11/2/2006 12:17:47 PM # Q
Stop biotching about the biotching. BIOTCH.

Wow... Another overly angry hater.

You all need to step back and relax. Its a smartphone. Your happiness should not rely on it. If it does, you SERIOUSLY need to re-evaluate your life.

Again, if you dont like it, dont buy it. Or are you just here to biotch because you like to have something to biotch about (I suspect that may be the case)?

RE: Imagine that...
retrospooty @ 11/2/2006 12:23:04 PM # Q
You guys (TVOR and CHIA) seem to not be to aware of the world in which you are hating.

1. Palm cannot put Wifi in a Palm OS device beacuse Palm OS 5 cannot support it at the same time as a Cell phone (it uses the same networking protocal on the Palm OS and only 1 exists) I dont know all the technical details, but that is it in a nutshell.

2. Palm does not make an OS, that is a company called Palmsource.

3. Palmsource's OS 6 was touted to be the next big thing (and of course would have supported wifi and phone on the same unit). It failed because Microsoft hired the lead programmer and 10 or so of his top programmers away from Palmsource in the middle of OS6's development cycle in 2003. This devastated OS6 and Palmsource's ability to produce anything... Thus we have no OS6 devices on the planet. So you could chalk this all up to Microsoft's anticompetitive practices, although it is not illegal to hire people, they were hired more for what they would do with a competitive OS than what they can/will do for MS's OS.

4. Now that Palmsource went broke, Access has purchased them and will be releasing ALP - a Palm OS based on Linux, hopefully in 2007. How will it works remains to be seen, but if it is successeful, Palm OS will live on and be competitive. If it is a dud, then Palm will switch to 100% windows mobile.

I personally hope ALP is great, because using WinMobile makes me want to vomit. I just dont like it.

"People like you are the reason why Palm has sold primitive, cheaply-made hardware at premium prices for so long"

Wow... that's a pretty bold accusation. I will take it with a grain of salt, because I know you are just an anger management case waiting to happen. And thank you for pointing out my typo on the word "awful" I am sure that helps this debate in some way (rolls eyes)

RE: Imagine that...
hkklife @ 11/2/2006 2:13:49 PM # Q
I personally couldn't give a FLIP about wi-fi in a Treo (or any) smartphone.

I want a TX-sized 320*480 device with a high capacity battery (removable is even better), 2 or 4gb of internal flash memory and an EVDO cellular DATA ONLY radio (why even fiddle around with voice functionality at all if Palm does such a poor job with it?) BT 2.0 w/ A2DP would be icing on the cake but I'd settle for a more robust version of the 700p's BT 1.2 stack

OS5 can handle all of the above and Palm's done it all in various dvices over the past several years. Now they just need to tie it all up into one nifty device. For the PDA die-hards that are resisting Treos due to the exhorbitant monthly bills, a $40/month unlimited EVDO data plan with VOIP handling the occasional voice need is a lot easier to swallow than a $50/month data plan + a $50+/month voice plan.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

Who DARES tell the truth?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 11/4/2006 12:02:06 AM # Q
Wow... Another overly angry hater.

Are you looking in the mirror?

You all need to step back and relax. Its a smartphone. Your happiness should not rely on it. If it does, you SERIOUSLY need to re-evaluate your life.

You're the only one here that doesn't seem to be relaxed.

Again, if you dont like it, dont buy it.

Actually, I already bought it. But I don't like it.

Or are you just here to biotch because you like to have something to biotch about (I suspect that may be the case)?

No, I'm here to share experiences with other PalmOS users. YOU, on the other hand seem more interested in suppressing any discussion that doesn't cheerlead for Palm. Take care.

Hugs & Kisses,
TVoR

The Palm Apologists are all the same...
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 11/4/2006 12:09:08 AM # Q
You guys (TVOR and CHIA) seem to not be to aware of the world in which you are hating.

Since when does being brutally honest become the same as "hating"?

1. Palm cannot put Wifi in a Palm OS device beacuse Palm OS 5 cannot support it at the same time as a Cell phone (it uses the same networking protocal on the Palm OS and only 1 exists) I dont know all the technical details, but that is it in a nutshell.

PalmOS 5 can support both telephony and Wi-Fi in the same device.

2. Palm does not make an OS, that is a company called Palmsource.

Actually, Access makes the OS.

3. Palmsource's OS 6 was touted to be the next big thing (and of course would have supported wifi and phone on the same unit). It failed because Microsoft hired the lead programmer and 10 or so of his top programmers away from Palmsource in the middle of OS6's development cycle in 2003. This devastated OS6 and Palmsource's ability to produce anything... Thus we have no OS6 devices on the planet. So you could chalk this all up to Microsoft's anticompetitive practices, although it is not illegal to hire people, they were hired more for what they would do with a competitive OS than what they can/will do for MS's OS.

Yawn. Cobalt failed because development was short-circuited by overly-ambitious dumba$$es (first within Palm and then later the Holy Be Engineers that infested PalmSource).

4. Now that Palmsource went broke, Access has purchased them and will be releasing ALP - a Palm OS based on Linux, hopefully in 2007. How will it works remains to be seen, but if it is successeful, Palm OS will live on and be competitive. If it is a dud, then Palm will switch to 100% windows mobile.

ALP-OS is of no interest to true PalmOS fans. Get it through your thick skulls: PalmOS died the day Access bought PalmSource. ALP-OS will be delayed until 2008 and by then it will be redundant.

I personally hope ALP is great, because using WinMobile makes me want to vomit. I just dont like it.

Sounds like you're just a Mindless Microsoft Hater.

"People like you are the reason why Palm has sold primitive, cheaply-made hardware at premium prices for so long"

Wow... that's a pretty bold accusation.

Not really. Palm would never innovate unless forced to do so by competition or lack of sales. If it was up to you we would never have seen a Palm with a color screen, expansion slot, multimedia, digital camera, etc.

I will take it with a grain of salt, because I know you are just an anger management case waiting to happen. And thank you for pointing out my typo on the word "awful" I am sure that helps this debate in some way (rolls eyes)

You can keep trying to marginalize those you disagree with by calling them "angry" or "haters", but you're not fooling anyone. You come across as nothing but a dumba$$ PalmOS fanboy in your posts here. If you can rebut the posts you disagree with in a civil manner, please do so. Otherwise, S T F U. Have a nice day.


TVoR

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