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Comments on: Treo 680 Receives FCC Approval

Palm Treo 680The Treo 680 has just passed one of the last steps before it can be offered for sale in the US. The Treo 680 now joins the Treo 750 as an FCC approved device. It is still unknown when the 680 will be officially available but all signs point to a release by Cingular before the end of the month.
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The Treo 680 is 2 years too late 2 matter.

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 11/10/2006 9:54:49 PM # Q
This is a simple evolutionary design that should have debuted in 2005 instead of the embarassing Treo 650 we saw.

Unless these things are soon being offered "free" with contract (and subsidized partially by Palm), they won't sell. On top of this, the Treo 680 will likely parasitize sales of Palm's more lucrative smartphones. Once again, an utter lack of coherent product stratification will cost Palm, Big time.

How many times can one company screw up before it goes bankrupt or gets bought out? I predict we'll SOON have the answer to that question. Bwahahahahah!


TVoR

Better late than never
freakout @ 11/10/2006 10:52:16 PM # Q
The Treo form factor is the ideal smartphone compromise. Not too big, not too small. It's Just Right. So when I hear "evolutionary" upgrade, I think good. Why kill the goose that laid the golden egg? Advances in battery technology and power management will eventually allow for thinner devices with around the same height/width, but until then the good ol' Treo 600 form landed a knockout punch and evolutionary upgrades to this kind of design will deservedly remain popular for years to come.

Free with contract or they won't sell? Rubbish!!! Treos are still selling well at the current (over-the-top) price point. $199 will be very compelling to people who have looked at the Treo and said "Nice, but way too expensive." For Treo 650 owners like myself it'll be great; no antenna, more RAM, "evolutionary" phone and SMS app upgrades, better reception (apparently) and purty colours. So in addition to their millions of Treo 600/650 users who will probably upgrade there's also all those others out there who are looking for an all-in-one device that's inexpensive and easy-to-use but have yet to be catered for. Plus, the number of Treo-specific accessories grows every day and that's a big point in its favour.

All signs are pointing to the 680 being a hit for Palm. And it'll be very interesting to see how the 750v has done in Europe, too - the (as always) optimistic word from Treonauts is that it's been one of Voda's best selling business phones yet.

It may undermine the 700series, sure, but they'll still be the only Treos with EVDO, a point in their favour.

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650

RE: The Treo 680 is 2 years too late 2 matter.
SeldomVisitor @ 11/11/2006 7:25:26 AM # Q
> ...All signs are pointing to the 680 being a hit for Palm...

What signs are THOSE!!!?

I've seen absolutely NO SIGNS AT ALL that the TREO 680 is going to be a "hit".

Sure - there are GAJILLIONS of =posts= by TREO enthusiasts and PALM stockholders, but there is NO =REAL= SIGN WHATSOEVER that the TREO 680 is going to be a failure or hit yet.

Indeed, the STRONGEST datapoint we have - and its weak - is that the TREO 680 is AGAIN going to be too expensive ($200+?) to have mass appeal compared to its stronger competition.

So...support that "hit" statement with something other than unsupported opinion!

RE: The Treo 680 is 2 years too late 2 matter.
SeldomVisitor @ 11/11/2006 7:29:32 AM # Q
> ...Treos are still selling well at the current (over-the-top)
> price point...

Actually, they're not.

== "...Smartphone sell-through for the first quarter was 569,000
== units. While this represents an increase sequentially and year
== over year, it was not as robust as we had expected. This was the
== result of slower-than-expected retail sell-through to consumers
== as lower-priced competing products were introduced to the
== marketplace..."

from the last earnings conference call.


RE: The Treo 680 is 2 years too late 2 matter.
freakout @ 11/11/2006 7:57:19 AM # Q
I read the transcript of that call too. Despite sales not being as "robust" as expected, they still grew. Palm's making a big push overseas with the 750v, which has gotten quite good press and the 680 has a similarly positive buzz about it. We'll find out just how successful their new models have been when the next report is due. So far, they're holding their own against their new competitors with the current line-up.

Indeed, the STRONGEST datapoint we have - and its weak - is that the TREO 680 is AGAIN going to be too expensive ($200+?) to have mass appeal compared to its stronger competition.

http://blog.treonauts.com/2006/10/cingular_treo_6_1.html

$424.99, no commitment
$349.99, 1 yr. commitment
$249.99, 1 yr. with UNL data plan ($100 rebate)
$274.99, 2 year commitment
BEST price: $174.99 2 year with UNL data plan ($100 rebate)

Also note the big orange poster advertising the $199 price. ;) Since a Treo without a data plan is like a... erm... thing with a vital bit missing... I'm guessing most people would be getting one for around that price point.

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650

RE: The Treo 680 is 2 years too late 2 matter.
SeldomVisitor @ 11/11/2006 8:23:53 AM # Q
A "blog" is fan-boy stuff.

RE: The Treo 680 is 2 years too late 2 matter.
hkklife @ 11/11/2006 9:48:09 AM # Q
Mail-in rebates suck and 2 contracts suck even harder. European & US markets are entirely different. Palm might can PDAs in Europe entirely but I still see a *lot* of them in use here Stateside.

Palm needs to offer a Treo of *some kind* for $200 unlocked if they ever want to break the stranglehold the E2 and Z22 enjoy in the $100-$200 dedicated PDA market.

There are no WinMo stragglers left in the sub-$250 range and the clunkly old Sharp & Royal electronic diaries cannot hold a candle to any Palm OS device.

Palm would be wise to keep tweaking and fiddling around with at least two PDA models (SD slot & headphone jack on a Z33, 64mb RAM + better Bluetooth to a T|E3) if just to keep a few options available to PDA diehard/students/soccer moms and those who absolutely refuse to purchase a Treo.

I wonder if we'll start seeing people using the Treo 680 as a PHONE (voice plan but no data plan) and just use it as an unwired PDA/phone hybrid. It wouldn't surprise me...Most advanced dumbphone users I know have a voice plan + a text messaging plan but no wireless web/EVDO/SprinTV features enabled on their accounts.



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: The Treo 680 is 2 years 2 late 2 matter.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 11/11/2006 1:52:31 PM # Q
The Treo form factor is the ideal smartphone compromise. Not too big, not too small. It's Just Right. So when I hear "evolutionary" upgrade, I think good. Why kill the goose that laid the golden egg? Advances in battery technology and power management will eventually allow for thinner devices with around the same height/width, but until then the good ol' Treo 600 form landed a knockout punch and evolutionary upgrades to this kind of design will deservedly remain popular for years to come.

Wrong. The Treo 600 was a brilliant design. In 2003. We're now almost in 2007 and in the intervening 3 YEARS all Palm has done is chop off the antenna (should have been done from the beginning), spec a non-bargain basement screen (should have been done from the beginning), spec a little more RAM (should have been done from the beginning), add Bluetooth (should have been done from the beginning), spec a faster processor (should have been done from the beginning), and add higher speed data connectivity. What the F do Palm's "engineers" do all day? It's taken over 3 years to accomplish what their head of Product Planning could have done with a 5 minute call to HTC to approve better parts. Pathetic.

Free with contract or they won't sell? Rubbish!!! Treos are still selling well at the current (over-the-top) price point. $199 will be very compelling to people who have looked at the Treo and said "Nice, but way too expensive." For Treo 650 owners like myself it'll be great; no antenna, more RAM, "evolutionary" phone and SMS app upgrades, better reception (apparently) and purty colours. So in addition to their millions of Treo 600/650 users who will probably upgrade there's also all those others out there who are looking for an all-in-one device that's inexpensive and easy-to-use but have yet to be catered for. Plus, the number of Treo-specific accessories grows every day and that's a big point in its favour.

This is no longer 2003. Or even 2005. The smartphone (and featurephone) world has changed, with the (lame, in my opinion) Motorola Q blowing Palm's price structure (and future profitability, in my opinion) out of the water. Until the carriers drop prices of unlimited broadband data to around $10 or $15/month, expensive smartphones will remain an answer to a question no one is asking. If Palm had been smart they would have put the Treo version of PalmOS into two SMALL (3 or 4 ounce), stylish candybar and clamshell form factor cellphones like the ones Sony Ericsson is doing so well with. Of corse, it would have made a lot more sense trying to use the presence of PalmOS to distinguish its phones if Palm actually was able to regain ownership of PalmOS. This could have been a KILLER selling point: flood the market with millions of tiny PalmOS cellphones, re-invigorate the Palm eCONomy and turn ease of use and application library into selling points for the company. The high end keyboard-enabled Treos should have been packaged with integrated push email software and pushed AGGRESSIVELY to business customers as an email solution from 2004 onwards. This two-pronged approach would have had Palm sitting pretty in 2007. As it stands now, all we're seeing is a series of tired retreads and incremental (questionable) "upgrades" befitting a company legendary for charging filet mignon prices for putting ketchup on yesterday's meatloaf. Palm is about to get butchered over the next two quarters because the emperor has no clothes. Unless they flood their channels with even more inventory this quarter (i.e. borrow "sales" from future quarters to make to books look better in the present) Palm will be back in the red for the present quarter (Q2 FY07). Having been burned before with stuffing channels with unwanted inventory, I'd be surprised to see them keep pushing such a sleazy strategy. The complicating factor is that Palm is now completely dependent upon the whims of the carriers for their survival. As the carriers' biotch, if the carriers decide to dump Palm's products or if they make predatory price demands, there isn't a damned thing Palm can do. In the old days before Palm became carrier-dependent, losing a few disgruntled customers (end users) didn't matter. Now that Verizon, Vodafone, Sprint, Cingular etc. are the customers, even the loss of a single customer could quickly prove fatal to Palm.

All signs are pointing to the 680 being a hit for Palm. And it'll be very interesting to see how the 750v has done in Europe, too - the (as always) optimistic word from Treonauts is that it's been one of Voda's best selling business phones yet.

I'd suggest you look at those tea leaves again for a second reading of the future, Bubba. While you're looking, Swami TVoR also suggests throwing away any crystal balls and doing a little RESEARCH into the products (non-vaporware) that are expected to be released in 2007 by Sony Ericsson, Nokia, Motorola, Samsung, HTC, etc. These Boyz In Tha Hood are not f-ing around anymore. Sorry, Bubba but an independent Palm will not withstand this onslaught of feature-packed hardware from the Big Boyz.

It may undermine the 700series, sure, but they'll still be the only Treos with EVDO, a point in their favour.

I paid less than $300 (after 2 rebates) for a Sprint-branded Treo 700p, mainly because of EVDO and the fact that I could get a ridiculiously cheap price for a voice + data plan (500 anytime minutes, 500 text messages, free nights (8 p.m.) and weekends + unlimited EVDO all for around $20/month with various discounts). Most people can't get such a good deal and wouldn't pay the extortion pricing of Verizon (I think an equivalent plan on Verizon would be $90/month). Ask youself this: what happens when Palm's profits-per-phone get halved while sales drop and operating costs escalate? Also try to remember that despite stuffing its channels last quarter, Palm was only able to generate around $20 million profit in Q1 FY07 (the quarter that ended August 31, 2006). http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=PALM

Don't be naÔve, Timmmay. Colligan is pulling the wool over your eyes. And you know what he does to his sheep next? Bad things. Baaaaad.


TVoR


RE: The Treo 680 is 2 years too late 2 matter.
kossello @ 11/11/2006 1:53:06 PM # Q
I agree with this statement. If I were to get a 650 or 680 it would be to replace my Cingular phone (Moto V551).

I would sync the data with my TX and only use the 650 - 680 as a phone and keep the data with me when I do not want to cary the TX. The question is how well the phone will function and how good the coverage would be.

A few freinds have switch the Blackberry for phone service and I have meen looking at the Moto "Q" for the same reason.

RE: The Treo 680 is 2 years too late 2 matter.
SeldomVisitor @ 11/11/2006 2:11:14 PM # Q
> ...A few freinds have switch the Blackberry for phone service and
> I have been looking at the Moto "Q" for the same reason.

Might want to wait for the Motorola Pro instead:

-- http://www.slashphone.com/83/5781.html


RE: The Treo 680 is 2 years too late 2 matter.
freakout @ 11/11/2006 4:31:19 PM # Q
A "blog" is fan-boy stuff.
Too true, but in this case it's a leaked Cingular presentation I'm quoting from.

I wonder if we'll start seeing people using the Treo 680 as a PHONE (voice plan but no data plan) and just use it as an unwired PDA/phone hybrid. It wouldn't surprise me...Most advanced dumbphone users I know have a voice plan + a text messaging plan but no wireless web/EVDO/SprinTV features enabled on their accounts.

I did that for awhile when Vodafone cut off my GPRS for "unreasonable use" (i.e. looking at all of two web pages...). Even without the wireless access a Treo's a great thing to have in your pocket. Albeit a bit bulky. My hope is that if devices like this can gain a bit more traction we may see to cost of cellular data start to go down... the current prices are uttlerly ridiculous. Why is it we can pay $69.95 a month at home for 1.5mbps internet with a 20gig download limit, yet $10 on the road gets you a sloooooow dial-up-speed connection and a paltry 2mb limit?? It cannot be costing Optus that much to provide data.

Might want to wait for the Motorola Pro instead:

Alternatively, just go ahead and slash your wrists now! :P

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650

RE: The Treo 680 is 2 years too late 2 matter.
freakout @ 11/11/2006 5:33:08 PM # Q
Quoth TVoR:
What the F do Palm's "engineers" do all day? It's taken over 3 years to accomplish what their head of Product Planning could have done with a 5 minute call to HTC to approve better parts. Pathetic."

They're working on the 700p ROM update. (boom-tish!)
What needs have changed for smartphone users since 2003, exactly? Consider:
You need a device that's pocketable. Check. Although we all know it couldn't hurt to be thinner).
You need a device that's user-friendly. Check. The touchscreen and Palm's software enhancements on both Garnet and WinMob greatly help here. Not to mention the superlative one-handed navigation.
You need a good battery life. Check. While I've read a few complaints online about the 700p's battery life, pretty much every other Treo has had a universally praised battery life - my 650 can go for two or three days sometimes if need be. This is the reward Palm reaps for eschewing the thin craze.
You need a device that's versatile. Check. Both PalmOS and WinMob Treos have access to a software library that Symbian developers gently pleasure themselves over, late at night when they think no one is watching.
Finally, and this one is a little contentious, you need a device that doesn't look stupid. I think check - the new form factor is nice and rounded, the speaker/camera grille on the back looks eye-catching yet unobtrusive and most importantly it doesn't look ridiculous against your head, as do a lot of the HTC and other more powerful WinMob models. Oh, and colours! (coming up)

So yes, I agree that they have only tinkered around the edges, but again I believe its a good thing.

This could have been a KILLER selling point: flood the market with millions of tiny PalmOS cellphones, re-invigorate the Palm eCONomy and turn ease of use and application library into selling points for the company. The high end keyboard-enabled Treos should have been packaged with integrated push email software and pushed AGGRESSIVELY to business customers as an email solution from 2004 onwards. This two-pronged approach would have had Palm sitting pretty in 2007.

I completely agree. It's an obvious wasted opportunity and I'd love to know what Palm are thinking there. Palm also needs a high-end Treo sans keyboard, especially for it's WinMob offerings.

While you're looking, Swami TVoR also suggests throwing away any crystal balls and doing a little RESEARCH into the products (non-vaporware) that are expected to be released in 2007 by Sony Ericsson, Nokia, Motorola, Samsung, HTC, etc. These Boyz In Tha Hood are not f-ing around anymore. Sorry, Bubba but an independent Palm will not withstand this onslaught of feature-packed hardware from the Big Boyz.

Eh. Hardware isn't everything. It's also about not wanting to throw the bastard thing out the window whenever you try to actually get something done with it. In this respect, Palm actually has the advantage since they're primarily software developers who understand the needs of the gadget-carrying public. Hey! Stop laughing! Yes, they continually skimp on little things like LEDs and microphones and Wifi. Yes, they've done so many hacks on their OS developers can barely keep up. But on the whole Palm still offers the most user-friendly experience.

Anyway, apart from wifi, how much more hardware can you add to a phone? Inbuilt GPS? Back scratcher?

Don't be naÔve, Timmmay. Colligan is pulling the wool over your eyes. And you know what he does to his sheep next? Bad things. Baaaaad.

I'm quivering in anticipation...

As always I agree that Palm's in dangerous territory - new competitors every other week, no control over their OS, stuck in bed with the VD-ridden carriers - but I don't think they're sunk. Not by a long shot.

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650

RE: The Treo 680 is 2 years too late 2 matter.
Wollombi @ 11/11/2006 7:49:42 PM # Q
Sunk or not, it's going to be a bumpy ride for Palm.

And is it just me, or is TVoR making a lot of sense lately...I must not be feeling well.... =P

Of course, he's toned down the inflammatory rhetoric too, which is probably why I'm able to listen closer...=)

At any rate, both TVoR and freakout make good points on both sides of the discussion. It will be interesting to see how it plays out in the coming months/years. Personally, I want Palm to survive, if only to keep another competitor in the market. So come on Palm, compete already!

_________________
Sean

There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.

RE: The Treo 680 is 2 years too late 2 matter.
matt_laughs @ 11/11/2006 11:19:10 PM # Q
voice of reason
i wish you were the product of sids (should have been done from the beginning) or stillbirth (should have been done from the beginning) or miscarriage (should have been done from the beginning) perhaps even an abortion (should have been done from the beginning) or a condom (should have been done from the beginning) or the rag in the janitors closet (should have been done from the beginning)

thats what she said!
RE: The Treo 680 is 2 years too late 2 matter.
twrock @ 11/12/2006 3:45:05 AM # Q
Uh, matt_laughs, might I suggest you tone it down a bit? If he/she/it is getting under your skin that badly, you might want to consider a little time off.

I'm still waiting for the mythical color HandEra.
RE: The Treo 680 is 2 years too late 2 matter.
freakout @ 11/12/2006 4:02:54 AM # Q
^^ Second. freakout's Rule of Life #28: Don't let anything anyone you haven't met says on the internet get to you. Otherwise, you're just a pawn in their diabolical game of checkers.
RE: The Treo 680 is 2 years too late 2 matter.
hkklife @ 11/12/2006 8:46:18 AM # Q
SUPPOSEDLY "Working on a 700p ROM update" now isn't enough. Palm's already lost me as a daily user of the 700p as my only device with its shoddy phone performance and circa 2003 PDA capabilities.

Palm (and the big two CDMA carriers for that matter) has never acknowledged any of the 700p's severe "issues"; they continue to chug along merrily with their head stuck in the sand. Meanwhile, the Treo 680's release is imminent and looks to be a superior product than the 700p in EVERY way aside from the lower-res camera and lack of EVDO.

One of Palm's few saving graces are that smartphone & cellphone shoppers in general are probably even less well-read and more misinformed than the average PDA buyer. Look at the overall very favorable reviews the 700p has recveived from trusted sources such as Walt Mossburg, Cnet etc. I'd wager that most of them used the phone in its de-facto configuration out-of-the-box for a week and never installed more than an app or two.

Also in Palm's favor (at least for the 700p and possibly the 680) are how so many users blindly made an emotional decision and bought a Q (and yes, 700w as well) and then ended up returning it a week later. I really feel, based on the new phone/contacts app and the hands-on video I've seen that the 680, other than its shameful lack of standard voice dialing, makes the best integration yet between PDA & cell phone.
A shame that amongst the current crop of standout smartphones (Q, BB Pearl, 700p/w/wx) I feel that Treo 680 will arguably be the best overall of the bunch as far as the overall experience & the intangibles. Yet the 680 will likely have the poorest sales (at least in the USA) due to its lack of true 3d "wow factor" and timing (The 680 REALLY should've been released in Nov. 2005 to catch the 650 at the peak of its sales momentum).

I'd honestly take a 680p CDMA with its current specs over my 700p right now.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: The Treo 680 is 2 years too late 2 matter.
SeldomVisitor @ 11/12/2006 9:05:24 AM # Q
>> A "blog" is fan-boy stuff.
>
> Too true, but in this case it's a leaked Cingular presentation
> I'm quoting from...

No, you are quoting from a PURPORTED leaked Cingular presentation that appeared on a fan-boy site.

And the purported ad that accompanied that self-conflicting "presentation" had Illinois written all over it.

Huh?

How come? What's in Illinois?

Be Careful Out There!

========

Read this morning that the 680 is really REALLY going to become available on the 14th - according to other posts elsewhere, that coincides with the Zune availability.

Great marketing timing, eh?

RE: The Treo 680 is 2 years too late 2 matter.
hkklife @ 11/12/2006 9:13:10 AM # Q
Tim;

I would like to chime in that also, even without a VOICE PLAN, a Treo's a handy thing to have in your pocket. The ONLY reason I continue to carry mine around and use it as a glorified PDA is because of its "anywhere" Internet access & robust e-mail capabilities. For PIM use, gaming, all multimedia functionality etc. I prefer my TX.

The 700p has a place in my pocket for the time being because I have to justify its exhorbitant purchase price. I also like the keyboard, my Seidio extended-capacity battery, and the EVDO cellular radio (most importantly). Otherwise, the TX has it beat on screen (most importantly), memory, wi-fi, multimedia, and light weight/thinness.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: The Treo 680 is 2 years too late 2 matter.
retrospooty @ 11/12/2006 10:12:16 AM # Q
Matt Laughs... "voice of reason i wish you were the product of sids (should have been done from the beginning) or stillbirth (should have been done from the beginning) or miscarriage (should have been done from the beginning) perhaps even an abortion (should have been done from the beginning) or a condom (should have been done from the beginning) or the rag in the janitors closet (should have been done from the beginning)"

I totally agree. I also move that his screen name be mandatorily changed for truth's sake. He is most certainly NOT the voice of reason. He is ill informed, emotional, extremely judgemental about things he doesnt even understand (such as product design cycles, and consumer wants/needs) and highly angry for some reason.

Put on top of all that, that you cannot "reason" with him at all. He is right, no matter what happens (in his mind). Reminds me of an angry teenager, although something tells me he is an adult, that just didnt grow up yet.

RE: The Treo 680 is 2 years too late 2 matter.
SeldomVisitor @ 11/12/2006 10:18:56 AM # Q
Poster-bashing has no place here (*) - go over to Yahoo to continue it.

Instead, here you should counter his/her =posts=.

So..go ahead, counter them!

Waiting with bated breath...this oughta be fun.

=======

(*) Oh! You say X does it!

That makes Y doing it right, too, eh?

No, it doesn't

Palm employee attacking TVoR? Shocking!
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 11/12/2006 2:04:59 PM # Q
matt_laughs @ 11/11/2006 11:19:10 PM #

voice of reason
i wish you were the product of sids (should have been done from the beginning) or stillbirth (should have been done from the beginning) or miscarriage (should have been done from the beginning) perhaps even an abortion (should have been done from the beginning) or a condom (should have been done from the beginning) or the rag in the janitors closet (should have been done from the beginning)

Gosh.

And then:

retrospooty @ 11/12/2006 10:12:16 AM


Matt Laughs... "voice of reason i wish you were the product of sids (should have been done from the beginning) or stillbirth (should have been done from the beginning) or miscarriage (should have been done from the beginning) perhaps even an abortion (should have been done from the beginning) or a condom (should have been done from the beginning) or the rag in the janitors closet (should have been done from the beginning)"

I totally agree. I also move that his screen name be mandatorily changed for truth's sake. He is most certainly NOT the voice of reason. He is ill informed, emotional, extremely judgemental about things he doesnt even understand (such as product design cycles, and consumer wants/needs) and highly angry for some reason.

Put on top of all that, that you cannot "reason" with him at all. He is right, no matter what happens (in his mind). Reminds me of an angry teenager, although something tells me he is an adult, that just didnt grow up yet.

Funny, but neither of you 2 seem to realize that as soon as you stoop to ad hominem attacks while failing to counter arguments presented in a debate you concede that you have lost the debate.

TVoR consistently speaks The Ugly Truth that most are afraid to say and that Palm/PalmSource would prefer was never discussed. I have made several statements about Palm and made a few predictions about the company's financial outcomes for the near future in this thread. If you listen to what Palm's Ed Colligan is saying these days you'll see even further evidence that what I say is correct. Of course, you can also just wait a few months and come back to this thread to eat your humble pie.

People? like you 2 are the sleaziest type of Internet troll there is. You bash those who speak the truth because you don't like the message. Would anyone here be surprised if it was revealed that matt_laughs works for Palm? Would you have the guts to admit it publicly, matt_laughs? Does TVoR's speaking the truth frighten you? Why? Are you afraid what will happen when everyone finally see that Emperor Palm has NO CLOTHES?

If you disagree with anything posted by TVoR, you're free to counter it with your own position (assuming you're actually capable of formulating a cogent response). If the best you can come up with is, "voice of reason i wish you were the product of sids (should have been done from the beginning) or stillbirth (should have been done from the beginning) or miscarriage (should have been done from the beginning) perhaps even an abortion (should have been done from the beginning) or a condom (should have been done from the beginning) or the rag in the janitors closet (should have been done from the beginning)" then perhaps you should call for reinforcements - hopefully someone more intelligent than you shares views similar to yours. I don't envy your position though - it must be difficult to argue against someone who is speaking The Truth. The Ugly Truth.


TVoR


RE: The Treo 680 is 2 years too late 2 matter.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 11/12/2006 3:14:10 PM # Q
Quoth TVoR:
"What the F do Palm's "engineers" do all day? It's taken over 3 years to accomplish what their head of Product Planning could have done with a 5 minute call to HTC to approve better parts. Pathetic."

They're working on the 700p ROM update. (boom-tish!)

Actually, the Treo 700p ROM update is apparently called the Treo 680. Treo 700p owners can get this update at any Cingular store on November 14 for only:

$424.99, no commitment
$349.99, 1 year commitment
$249.99, 1 year commitment with unlimited data plan
$274.99, 2 year commitment
$174.99, 2 year commitment with unlimited data plan

What a deal. Thanks, Palm!
(bud-um-pum)

What needs have changed for smartphone users since 2003, exactly?

The need for high speed data, multimedia, streaming media, nice screens, GPS navigation, long battery life, small size, light weight, stylish design, low price...

Consider:
You need a device that's pocketable. Check. Although we all know it couldn't hurt to be thinner).

Uncheck. The current Treos are too bulky to appeal to the average consumer.

You need a device that's user-friendly. Check. The touchscreen and Palm's software enhancements on both Garnet and WinMob greatly help here. Not to mention the superlative one-handed navigation.

Uncheck. My Treo 700p crashing daily or slowing down to feel like my old 16 MHz Palms is not exactly what I'd call "user friendly". And if you can't depend on your Treo to do something as basic as reliably download/send email or carry on conversations with, what's the point? Can't hear you, Timmmmay.

You need a good battery life. Check. While I've read a few complaints online about the 700p's battery life, pretty much every other Treo has had a universally praised battery life - my 650 can go for two or three days sometimes if need be. This is the reward Palm reaps for eschewing the thin craze.

Uncheck. Without my extended batttery my Treo 700p battery life is unacceptable. My old first generation Treo 600 also had crappy battery life but I don't know if the ROM updates helped that since I gave up on the Treo 600 before Palm/Sprint bothered to issue any real updates.

You need a device that's versatile. Check. Both PalmOS and WinMob Treos have access to a software library that Symbian developers gently pleasure themselves over, late at night when they think no one is watching.

PalmOS and Windows Mobile do indeed have a great range of software available. At this point in time it appears that in general Windows Mobile apps are better-featured than their PalmOS equivalents. When you consider the fact that adding StyleTap Platform allows you to emulate PalmOS on a Windows Mobile device, it's starting to get difficult coming up with a reason for Palm to keep hacking PalmOS 5 into a buggy mess on its devices.

Finally, and this one is a little contentious, you need a device that doesn't look stupid. I think check - the new form factor is nice and rounded, the speaker/camera grille on the back looks eye-catching yet unobtrusive and most importantly it doesn't look ridiculous against your head, as do a lot of the HTC and other more powerful WinMob models. Oh, and colours! (coming up)

Uncheck. Compare how it looks holding any Treo Brickô to your ear compared to a small, stylish phone like the Samsung i500. When people see my i500, the typical reaction is fascination. They immediately want to hold it (or "fondle" it as the late Mike Cane would say) and I've had dozens of people ask me how they can get one. On the other hand, the typical reaction to my Treo 700p is the (gently mocking) comment, "Wow, that's a BIG phone", sometimes accompanied by the person slowly, unconsciously shaking their head. In a world where so many millions of consumers lust after the stylish-but-otherwise-useless Motorola RAZR, repulsive styling is probably not a good idea...

So yes, I agree that they have only tinkered around the edges, but again I believe its a good thing.

No. In an ultra-competitive business like the cellphone industry, companies that stand still are soon dead. Siemens is dead. Motorola would probably be dead if they hadn't recently figured out that millions of consumers care mainly about the APPEARANCE of their cellphone and created the (pathetic) RAZR.

Eh. Hardware isn't everything. It's also about not wanting to throw the bastard thing out the window whenever you try to actually get something done with it. In this respect, Palm actually has the advantage since they're primarily software developers who understand the needs of the gadget-carrying public. Hey! Stop laughing! Yes, they continually skimp on little things like LEDs and microphones and Wifi. Yes, they've done so many hacks on their OS developers can barely keep up. But on the whole Palm still offers the most user-friendly experience.

Wrong. Hardware is EVERYTHING. Have you seen the User Interface on a Moto RAZR? Or on any Verizon cellphone? Anyone spending their own money on a cellphone (instead of just going with a "free" phone) wants STYLE. The RAZR, LG Chocolate and most of Sony Ericsson's phones show how important style is to a phone's success.

Anyway, apart from wifi, how much more hardware can you add to a phone? Inbuilt GPS? Back scratcher?

How about:

- small size
- light weight
- good voice quality
- good speakerphone
- stylish design
- reliable email
- push email
- Wi-Fi (understandably blocked by carriers)
- clamshell form factor
- GPS
- 320 x 480 screen
- fair price
- good battery life
- overall speed and stability
- VoIP capability
- High speed data connectivity

How many of Palm's phones address these issues?

>>>Don't be naÔve, Timmmay. Colligan is pulling the wool >>>over your eyes. And you know what he does to his sheep next? >>>Bad things. Baaaaad.

I'm quivering in anticipation...

You should shaking in your hooves by the manger behind Palm HQ. Just don't bend over to graze. He might just mount you faster than you can say, "Where's my Wi-Fi PalmOS Treo 750?".

As always I agree that Palm's in dangerous territory - new competitors every other week, no control over their OS, stuck in bed with the VD-ridden carriers - but I don't think they're sunk. Not by a long shot.

Timmmmay, it seems that as long as there is a drop of water left in the glass you'll keep saying it's "half full". You need to stop pretending. There's no place like home. There's no place like home. There's no place like home. There's no place like home...

TVoR

RE: The Treo 680 is 2 years too late 2 matter.
freakout @ 11/12/2006 3:25:35 PM # Q
SV:
No, you are quoting from a PURPORTED leaked Cingular presentation that appeared on a fan-boy site... And the purported ad that accompanied that self-conflicting "presentation" had Illinois written all over it.

Okay, so it's possible it's all a fake. An extraordinarily detailed 19-slide fake with charts and figures geared towards a Cingular sales team... but still possible. You win!

hk:
The 700p has a place in my pocket for the time being because I have to justify its exhorbitant purchase price. I also like the keyboard, my Seidio extended-capacity battery, and the EVDO cellular radio (most importantly). Otherwise, the TX has it beat on screen (most importantly), memory, wi-fi, multimedia, and light weight/thinness.

Fair enough. I also think that for PDA power users such as yourself TVoR's oft-touted small phone+PDA combo is the best bet. Personally, I couldn't justify buying a stand-alone PDA for myself because I wouldn't use it enough. But a phone? I use that every day, so I wanted something that wouldn't frustrate me (my original logic behind the purchase of my Treo 270).

As I type this, I just noticed that the host of Sunrise is using a (very scuffed and battered!) Treo 650. Ha! Just held a text message up to the camera. He doesn't seem to realise the blinking asterix mean he has an alert waiting.

Treos are starting to crop up everywhere. This is one of those signs I was talking about earlier that future Treos are still going to be popular.

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650

RE: The Treo 680 is 2 years too late 2 matter.
matt_laughs @ 11/12/2006 4:15:03 PM # Q
i think commenting to blatantly false accusations over and over again, in a serious manner would be counter to my objectives.

I dont need your, or his approval, i think for myself.

everything he says is a joke, he should be able to take one.

i dont think we have anything to explain to this guy, he wants to be unhappy, and is probably very depressed, and we all hope he gets better so he stops writing misinformation, disinformation, misleading statements, or simply, lies.



thats what she said!

RE: The Treo 680 is 2 years too late 2 matter.
SeldomVisitor @ 11/12/2006 4:44:26 PM # Q
So you do work for PALM then?

RE: The Treo 680 is 2 years too late 2 matter.
retrospooty @ 11/12/2006 4:46:28 PM # Q
"TVoR consistently speaks the Ugly"

that part is true. ;)

As far as countering your points... No thanks. As I mentioned that you cannot "reason" with you at all. You are right, no matter what happens (in your mind). And to tell teh truth, Palm has made a lot of errors lately... I still like thier products though. This does not by ANY means mean I concede that I lost the debate. You see, a debate has rules, and unbiased judges that keep score. In a "debate" as you call it, YOU win no matter what. That is not a debate, its just you spouting off your negative opinion and bashing anyone that disagrees.

You, my friend are a troll, and would just thrive off the negativity. You are in nearly every thread at Palminfocenter bashing away at Palm for a long time. I am not sure what your goal is, but its just not something I care to get into... I stand behind everything I wrote in my last post. Again, if you dunt like it, dunt buy it.

Interesting. As usual, those who bash TVoR run and HIDE.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 11/12/2006 5:49:04 PM # Q
As usual, the trolls who seem to thrive on bashing TVoR from the security of their parents' basement run and hide when pressed. What a surprise.


I hope everyone reading this thread now realizes who speaks The Truth and who is a sleazy, cowardly LIAR. Take care, matt_laughs. Have a nice day,

TVoR

RE: The Treo 680 is 2 years too late 2 matter.
freakout @ 11/12/2006 7:08:16 PM # Q
I have a long-winded rebuttal brewing, but unfortunately I'm stuck at work. It'll have to wait till tonight. (crowd gives a simultaneous "Awwwww!")

OT: I resigned my sh*tty job today. For anyone out there who's unhappy in their current line of work, I [B]can't recommend it enough[/B]. I feel so free! I can't stop smiling.

Now, to find a new job!

Maybe I should ahve done that first.

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650

RE: The Treo 680 is 2 years too late 2 matter.
matt_laughs @ 11/12/2006 7:16:21 PM # Q
you remind me of that simpsons episode where homers brother meets homer and homer helps him design a car.

thats what she said!
RE: The Treo 680 is 2 years too late 2 matter.
freakout @ 11/12/2006 8:08:54 PM # Q
Herb Simpson: "Hang up, call me back, and say the exact opposite of everything you just said!"

Lead engineer (on phone): "Uhhh, Homer Simpson is a...brilliant man who has come up with many...well-thought-out, practical ideas, and is insuring the financial future of this company. Oh, and his personal hygiene is beyond reproach."

I love that episode...

On the other hand....
twrock @ 11/12/2006 10:54:57 PM # Q
Ever notice how often the subject line of a person's post contains a reference to themself? Maybe someone just needs to get over themself a little.

And while I'm at it, maybe I'm the only one, but I find it a bit annoying to click on what appears to be a new thread only to find that I've already read right on through that post as part of a previous thread. What's up with that? More need for "personal attention"?

(BTW, before you go flying off the handle, call me a Palm apologist/employee, threaten me with sexual assault, or follow through with whatever other strange reaction is popping into your head at this moment, at least let me first point out that I purposefully changed the subject line of this post to make the point. Now have at it. And, I won't be "hiding"; I simply choose to not to post very often.)



I'm still waiting for the mythical color HandEra.

RE: The Treo 680 is 2 years too late 2 matter.
matt_laughs @ 11/12/2006 11:19:16 PM # Q
thats almost as funny as that simpsons quote, he called me a palm employee, holy crap. and i didnt even notice. your very paranoid as you are depressed TVestite.



thats what she said!

RE: The Treo 680 is 2 years too late 2 matter.
matt_laughs @ 11/12/2006 11:27:08 PM # Q
TVoR while we're talking about your name

how do you feel about the following new TVoR abbreviation compliant names?

old non TVoR compliant name-USA

new TVoR 1.0 compliant name-USoA

did i code that right or should it be
'the united states of america' (TUSoA)


i just know there are more people mis-abbreviating, than just all of america, who else is wrong TVoR, please tell us TVoR.



thats what she said!

RE: The Treo 680 is 2 years too late 2 matter.
freakout @ 11/13/2006 3:15:45 AM # Q
^^ Dude, TVoR is a regular fixture here, is an obvious PalmOS devotee and can express his opinions clearly, cogently, amusingly. Why get worked up over something a stranger says? But enough of that, because these arguments can go on forever. If you really find him that annoying:
http://www.palminfocenter.com/feedback.asp
Also, there's nothing to stop you scrolling straight on past when you see his handle...

Now:

What needs have changed for smartphone users since 2003, exactly?
The need for high speed data
Like... erm... I dunno... EVDO? On the 700p you own?!!

Okay, I knew you were talking about the 680, I just couldn't help myself. High speed data is great. No question. At the same time, the speed of wireless net on my 650 has done me fine. How can I argue against what I personally know to be true - that given the sorts of mobile-optimised sites you'll usually be browsing on a Treo, 2G/2.5G data speeds aren't that bad and are cheaper than 3G data, which is hugely important to consumers. This is true of at least of the Aussie market, maybe the American one is different.

I don't see the lack of 3G data being a hindrance given this model's target audience. I do believe that this should and will be the last 2G Treo.

multimedia, streaming media, nice screens
Good thing it comes with Pocket Tunes (which streams Shoutcast stations). The lovely, intuitive built-in Media app can handle MPG, ASF and AVI (uncompressed). It would be nice to have Coreplayer bundled, but it's clearly still not ready yet on the PalmOS.

As for the screen, it's frickin' beautiful!!! Bright, sharp, clear and compared to the usual small phone, HUGE (which is not a bad thing). Kicks the crap out of almost any phone the target audience have been using.

GPS navigation
Inbuilt GPS would be awesome, but until then Palm sell a very nice GPS bundle that our very own hklife said was "One of the best PDA accessories I've ever used and certainly Palm's best accessory release ever." and "A decent value for the sum of its parts." And hey, he's one of the toughest critics we have here, next to you. ;)
Finally, it's not as good as GPS, but Google Maps' awesome new Treo app will be built-in. Which is awesome. (As I recall, even you liked it...)

long battery life and Uncheck. Without my extended batttery my Treo 700p battery life is unacceptable. My old first generation Treo 600 also had crappy battery life but I don't know if the ROM updates helped that since I gave up on the Treo 600 before Palm/Sprint bothered to issue any real updates.

The battery life on my Treo 270 sucked too, but the 650 has been probably the most power-thrifty device I've ever owned. I'm guessing we have vastly different usage patterns...

small size, light weight, stylish design,
It could stand to be thinner, we know that. But I just don't see how you can shoehorn a *usable* exposed QWERTY keyboard and a large display onto anything much smaller than what we already have. Since a large part of the Treo's appeal is it's unquestionable awesomeness as a messenger (both SMS and MMS) dropping the keyboard altogether is a big no-no.

Also, I too get the "that's a BIG phone" reactions too, at first - usually followed by surpise at the cool things it can do. (GPS, TCPMP and a really old PalmOS app called Gaydar are the biggest crowd-pleasers) Two people I know have bought them after having seeing mine. And they're spreading. Heck, even Kochie on Sunrise (stupid U.S.-style breakfast TV show we have here) has one as I noticed with some delight this morning (http://tinyurl.com/yzrsu8). It's obviously well-loved, judging by the scuffs...

I think given its capabilities, specs and intended usage ("not just a cell phone...") it's almost the perfect size. And dammit, I like the colours they're going to offer. Especially the red ones.

and low price...
I think their new pricepoints will be very appealing. Let's wait and see how it sells, shall we? :P

PalmOS and Windows Mobile do indeed have a great range of software available.

Hey, at least we have consensus on one thing! ;) I agree too with the worrying implications Styletap has for PalmOS. Looking forward to the day they finally tell us what their plans are for a new OS. Going all-Windows? ALP? Something of their own making? It's all so exciting...

Timmmmay, it seems that as long as there is a drop of water left in the glass you'll keep saying it's "half full". You need to stop pretending. There's no place like home. There's no place like home. There's no place like home. There's no place like home...

Don't confuse my optimism with delusion. I am merely impressed every day by my Treo, and cannot possibly see how this device could fail. Heck, it's inspired me to start posting long-winded comments on the internet about why it's so cool. Which actually scares me a little...

Anyway, sometimes I like to argue just for the sake of arguing. We can't let you go completely unchallenged now, can we? :P

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650

RE: The Treo 680 is 2 years too late 2 matter.
freakout @ 11/13/2006 4:47:15 AM # Q
Forgot to add: I agree Palm needs to diversify their smartphone lineup (i.e. 320x480 screen, clamshells etc). They need to prove this design is not the only idea they have, even if it is a really good one.
RE: The Treo 680 is 2 years too late 2 matter.
twrock @ 11/13/2006 8:25:41 AM # Q
I am merely impressed every day by my Treo, and cannot possibly see how this device could fail.

(Taking your statement out of context....) Knock on wood, my friend, knock on wood. I'm on my fourth TX in one year of use. Palm products certainly can fail, and when they do, the horrible "refurbished" unit loop begins. You don't want to go there.

I agree Palm needs to diversify their smartphone lineup (i.e. 320x480 screen, clamshells etc).

Exactly. Palm is only selling one smartphone design. The differences between models are minor variations when you look at the range of hardware being offered by their competitors. Granted, they still offer two OS's, but I'm talking about the hardware.



I'm still waiting for the mythical color HandEra.

RE: TT680i2ytl2m.
freakout @ 11/14/2006 3:20:36 AM # Q
^^ For now, I'm willing to believe the market for the current Treo form isn't completely saturated, given the almost exclusive focus on business & enterprise in the Treo's marketing to date. But Palm had better be a bit more creative in '07, 'cause the market's not standing still.

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650
RE: The Treo 680 is 2 years too late or sumthin'
SeldomVisitor @ 11/15/2006 6:36:20 AM # Q
> Read this morning that the 680 is really REALLY going to
> become available on the 14th - according to other posts
> elsewhere, that coincides with the Zune availability.
>
> Great marketing timing, eh?

Datapoints are now beginning to make themselves known - not strong ones but datapoints anyway - that the TREO 680 may be "available" somewhat later than the ... ahem ... 14th.

(1) It's the 15th and no 680.

(2) Posts are appearing by purported fan-boys saying they talked to someone who said "mid-December earliest".

(3) Amazon just switched their wording on the page that USED to have TREo 680 for sale to:

== "This item is currently not available. Request this item
== from another seller."

This after they changed the wording from:

== "Normally ships in 1 or 2 weeks"

to

== "In stock soon. Order now to get in line. First come,
== first served.
==
== Hurry, order now and we'll ship this item when it becomes
== available. You can cancel your order at any time. Your
== credit card will not be charged until we have shipped
== your order. Ships from and sold by Amazon.com..."

Gotta luv it!

Wonder what they have to say about the 750?...

RE: The Treo 680 is 2 years too late 2 matter.
freakout @ 11/15/2006 10:24:30 PM # Q
I don't mind if it's delayed a little longer - it'll give me time to set up my USAbox (http://www.usabox.com/). Finally, I will no longer be constrained by hopelessly late Aussie release dates! :D
RE: And now here comes the iPhone
SeldomVisitor @ 11/16/2006 9:36:54 AM # Q
As pointed out elsewhere by someone else (and I hadn't noticed myself), check the first order volume...12 million units...yikes!

iPhone
freakout @ 11/17/2006 6:09:49 AM # Q
iPhone won't hurt Palm's enterprise sales at all, but it may be a nasty shock for anticipated consumer sales of the Treo 680. Then again, maybe not - after all, a Treo can do a heck of a lot more than play music and that's the angle Palm are pushing.

If Apple keep in line with their current design philosophy then it will be a good-looking, minimalistic feature phone that's simple to operate and easy to sync with iTunes. The 680 on the other hand will be offering a lot more functionality, with the same "simplicity is key" philosophy, for a (I'm guessing) not-much-more-expensive price.

Will well-designed feature phones kill the Smartphone Dream?

(answer that one yourself, dear reader, for I am off to play Guitar Hero 2. The greatest freaking game in the world!!!!!!!)


ahem. sorry.

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650

Reply to this comment

Google CEO: Free cellphones for all, if...

Gekko @ 11/12/2006 11:00:32 AM # Q

Google CEO: Free cellphones for all, if...
Schmidt says consumers would get the device without cost - provided they accepy targeted advertising.
November 11 2006: 10:20 PM EST

SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) -- Web search leader Google Inc.'s chief executive, Eric Schmidt, sees a future where mobile phones are free to consumers who accept watching targeted forms of advertising.

Schmidt said Saturday that as mobile phones become more like handheld computers and consumers spend as much as eight to 10 hours a day talking, texting and using the Web on these devices, advertising becomes a viable form of subsidy.

"Your mobile phone should be free," Schmidt told Reuters. "It just makes sense that subsidies should increase" as advertising rises on mobile phones.

http://money.cnn.com/2006/11/11/technology/bc.tech.google2.reut/index.htm?postversion=2006111122



RE: Google CEO: Free cellphones for all, if...
AdamaDBrown @ 11/13/2006 1:10:40 AM # Q
I suspect this will go down the same way ad-sponsored PCs did. For starters, they're bound to want to profile you and sell your information to everyone possible in order to make more money--and with that prospect in mind, I doubt many people would sign up for the deal.

RE: Google CEO: Free cellphones for all, if...
freakout @ 11/13/2006 4:31:07 AM # Q
^^ Reminds me of GoConnect. They tried to offer free internet by installing a small app that displayed TV-style ads on your desktop. It bombed miserably, and they were eventually forced to move to paid plans.
Reply to this comment

Which Smartphone does £320 ($600) buy today?

ChiA @ 11/13/2006 6:39:11 AM # Q
Shopping with £320 (US$600) at www.expansys.com in the UK can buy you either:

HTC S620 - a Treo style WinMob5 device with wi-fi, Bluetooth 2.0 and a 2 Megapixel camera - shipped to you after a couple of days delay

OR

Treo 680 - a place in the queue for when Palm is bothered to release a Treo with no wi-fi, slower Bluetooth 1.2 and a VGA camera.

to paraphrase the old saying - a HTC in the hand is worth two Treos "available soon", which in the past Palm Europe has regarded as meaning six months after the product has been released in the USA.

Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital. Aaron Levenstein

RE: Which Smartphone does £320 ($600) buy today?
ChiA @ 11/13/2006 6:57:11 AM # Q
Sorry, the HTC S620 only comes with a 1.3 megapixel camera (still a million more than the Treo 680).

However, the UBiQUiO 501 is another Treo style device at a similar price that comes with a 2 megapixel camera and wi-fi but only 1.2 Bluetooth.

So we can see that Palm is facing intense competition from the lesser known manufacturers as well as from the well-known names.

Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital. Aaron Levenstein

RE: Which Smartphone does £320 ($600) buy today?
freakout @ 11/13/2006 7:28:45 AM # Q
The S620 runs WinMob Smartphone edition. Ugh. The UBiQUiO looks v. nice though, although I wonder what the battery's like when it's that thin.
680 on Amazon, sort of
SeldomVisitor @ 11/13/2006 7:53:09 AM # Q
There is what appears to be a placeholder page(s) for the TREO 680 on Amazon - $400+ with nothing specified w.r.t. carriers/contract etc.

Maybe they'll fill it out "soon"...

RE: Which Smartphone does £320 ($600) buy today?
SeldomVisitor @ 11/13/2006 10:21:09 AM # Q
Lol! The veracity of Amazon listings
SeldomVisitor @ 11/13/2006 11:38:38 AM # Q
Nevermind Amazon...
ChiA @ 11/13/2006 5:48:23 PM # Q
...these are reliable prices from www.expansys.com:

Treo 680:
http://tinyurl.com/y2qspu

UbiQUiO 501:
http://tinyurl.com/y7fytr

As for battery life, well you can't compare the UbiQUiO's battery life to the Treo 680 as no consumer has a Treo 680!

RE: Which Smartphone does £320 ($600) buy today?
freakout @ 11/14/2006 3:17:18 AM # Q
Given the 680's smaller capacity battery, it may wind up being even stevens. Apparently the 680 turns off the keyboard backlight after a short time. I'll be interested to see how it compares to my 650.
Reply to this comment

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Pioneer pdp-504cmx plasma tv-$1,800
Pioneer pdp-505cmx plasma TV -$1,670
Pioneer pdp-5060hd plasma tv-$1,890

PHILIPS PLASMA TV

Philips 17PF8946A 17?LCD Television $180
Philips 17PF9936 17?LCD Television $160
Samsung LT-P1745 17 in. LCD Television $180
Toshiba 17HLV85 17?LCD Television $190
Samsung LT-P1795W 17?LCD Television $160
SONY MFMHT75W 17?LCD Television $130
FLAT-PANEL LCD TV 17?LCD Television $140
Samsung LTN1735 17?LCD Television $160
AOC A17W221 17IN LCD TV $150.


NOKIA
n95 $400
n93 $300
n90 $190
n91 $200
n92 $260
n80 $230
n70 $150
n71 $240
nokia 8800 $170
nokia 9300 $150
9300i $160
9500 $160
nokia 3250 $200
nokia 6600 $100

MOTOROLA


MTOROLA MPX 300 $130USD

MOTOROLA MPX 200 $125USD

motorola q $300
MOTOROLA V3X $130
MOTOROLA A1010 $110
MOTOROLA V3 $120
MOTOROLA V230 $110
MOTOROLA V235 $100
MOTOROLA E680i $110
NEXTEL

Nextel i930 $150
Nextel i860 $120
NEXTEL i870 $110

SONY ERICSSON

SONY ERICSSON P990I $240
SONY ERICSSON K750 $200
SONY ERICSSON Z800 $200
SONY ERICSSON V800 $180
SONY ERICSSON P910a $130
SONY ERICSSON P910i $120
SONY ERICSSON P900 $100
SOMY ERICSSON W800i $220
SONY ERICSSON W900 $250

SAMSUNG

SAMSUNG M8000 $240
SAMSUNG MM-A940 CLAMSHELL $230
LATEST SAMSUNG D6OO $15O
SAMSUNG D410 $100
SAMSUNG SGH-T200 $110

PDAS

PALM TREO 650 $200
PALMONE TREO 600 $200
PALMONE TREO 180 $140
TREO 700 $250
I-MATE PDA2 $140
I-MATE K-JAM $170
I-MATE JAM $160
I-MATE JAS JAR $300
I-MATE JASJAM $500

IPODS

Ipod video 30 GB $140USD
Ipod video 60GB. $200USD
Apple iPod nano Media Player 2GB -- $130 USD
Apple iPod naNo Media Player 4GB -- $140USD
Apple iPod nano Media Player 6GB -- $200USD
Apple iPod Video 30GB Black MP3 Player....$100
Apple iPod Video 30GB silver MP3 Player....$100
Apple iPod 20GB MP3 Player......$80
Apple iPod nano 2GB White MP3 Player....$70
Apple iPod shuffle 1GB MP3 Player.....$50
Apple iPod Mini - Silver MP3 Player.....$130
Apple iPod nano 4GB Black MP3 Player.....$150
Apple iPod Photo 30GB MP3 Player......$120
Apple iPod Photo 60GB MP3 Player........$170
Apple iPod U2 Special Edition MP3 Player....$200

GAMES

XBOX 360 PREMIUM--US$200
play station 1------- $35
PLAY STATION 2----US$170
PLAY STATION 3--$190
IPOD NANO----US$130
SONY PSP-----US$120

Do kindly reply back if you are interested in buying
from us.Email us at:
guarantorphones@yahoo.com
MR ABEL LINCOLN,


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