Comments on: ACCESS Linux Platform Demoed at 3GSM
The company also announced that ACCESS Linux Platform is now the official name of its next-generation Linux-based software platform optimized for mobile phones and other converged mobile devices. In addition, ACCESS Garnet OS (also known as Palm OS Garnet) compatibility layer included with ACCESS Linux Platform, has been named ACCESS Garnet VM.
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Sleepy? Take a Nap...
As far as devices go, we're not in a position to pre-announce our licensees plans on their behalf. They really don't like that.
RE: Yawn?
Surur
They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...
Hey!! I made associate writer at PDA247. Come see my nattering over there!!
www.clieuk.co.uk/wm.shtml
RE: Yawn?
That's about the level of detail I'm able to provide, I'm afraid.
RE: Yawn?
Oh, untrue. I care. Based on my experience talking to a large number of customers, prospects and other folks about it, I'm far from alone. Maybe you meant for large values of "nobody"...
Heck, you cared enough to post four comments!
"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."--Wm. Shakespeare, Hamlet
RE: Yawn?
Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
RE: Yawn?
May You Live in Interesting Times
info out of Marty's Ars?
Just yankin your chain, Marty. 12-18 months is what we've always been told it takes to go from platform to handset release, what with all the carrier certification and FCC testing added to the development of the product itself.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: ALP on a device in 12-180 months
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: Yawn?
Pray tell - how many fictional licensees are lining up this time? 30...50?
-------------------------------
PocketFactory, www.pocketfactory.com
The iPhone Blog, www.theiphoneblog.com
RE: Yawn?
12-18 months is what we've always been told it takes to go from platform to handset release, what with all the carrier certification and FCC testing added to the development of the product itself.
An ODM with a good relationship with a carrier can get a new device into the carrier's channels in six months.
Both Motorola and Nokia do this on a regular basis.
May You Live in Interesting Times
RE: Yawn?
Yes David, its a troll because its all made up, isn't it. Or was it rude to point to the elephant in the room?
Surur
They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...
Hey!! I made associate writer at PDA247. Come see my nattering over there!!
www.clieuk.co.uk/wm.shtml
RE: Yawn?
Surur
They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...
Hey!! I made associate writer at PDA247. Come see my nattering over there!!
www.clieuk.co.uk/wm.shtml
RE: Yawn?
An ODM with a good relationship with a carrier can get a new device into the carrier's channels in six months.
Assuming an ODM even adopts ALP. Access still has to clear the first hurdle of finding willing victims for its unfortunate OS...ala Cobalt. "Lookers" at 3GSM don't count. It all comes down to contracts, and so far I don't see any ink being spilled.
-------------------------------
PocketFactory, www.pocketfactory.com
The iPhone Blog, www.theiphoneblog.com
RE: Yawn?
Notice the hardware requirements? 200mhz minimum, but 400mhz or greater is recommended. Hmm...strange. Where have I heard that before? Oh yes, Windows Mobile! So it appears that ALP is every bit as hardware ravenous as Microsoft's mobile operating system. Let the betting begin - I'll wager you that ALP is a bloat hog, and performs sluggishly on mainstream hardware. That could be a key factor in the delay of this OS.
-------------------------------
PocketFactory, www.pocketfactory.com
The iPhone Blog, www.theiphoneblog.com
RE: Yawn?
My SWAG is still a China play, probably with Haier.
Of course, with Savaje out of business, maybe GSPDA will move Jasper to ALP.
May You Live in Interesting Times
RE: Yawn?
-------------------------------
PocketFactory, www.pocketfactory.com
The iPhone Blog, www.theiphoneblog.com
RE: Yawn?
It also doesn't help matters that ALP remains shrouded to the masses, as if there is something to hide by limiting the SDK distribution to "select developers" and partners. And it still remains in "pre-release" state.
Pull that stick out of your backside and you'll feel better, Foo.
Well, probably not, actually. If they released the SDK without a beta test you'd be ranting about how they don't care about code quality and will just throw anything over the fence. You know you would.
Notice the hardware requirements? 200mhz minimum, but 400mhz or greater is recommended.
Better get used to it. There's this little thing called Moore's Law and software developers like to take full advantage. You'll get your pre-emptive multitasking, your SQL database engine, your hardware-accelerated graphics, true-type fonts, alpha blending, and JavaScript/CSS-enabled browser engine. But it's not going to run on your Palm V hardware.
It'll be interesting to compare ALP's hardware requirements to those of the version of OS X that Apple plans to put on the iPhone, hmmm? Something tells me you'll be finding other things to whine about on the day that gets revealed.
Suggest you turn your punditry toward something you know more about, or at least give the grandstanding a rest. Your pompous strutting and sniffing wouldn't look so ridiculous if you were discussing topics that weren't so out of your depth.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
Apology
To Kent just wanted to say that it's clear your a smart, talented guy with good ideas about how the Palm OS should evolve. Also I certainly understand a healthy skepticism about early stage announcements and releases given what Palm OS users went through with the announcements and releases of Cobalt. I see the things happening with ALP and mobile Linux in a different light and am actually pretty enthusiastic about developments in these areas, but being frustrated that you and others don't share that enthusiasm doesn't justify crude remarks or comments that border on ad hominem attacks. I'm sorry I made them.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: Yawn?
You'll get your pre-emptive multitasking, your SQL database engine, your hardware-accelerated graphics, true-type fonts, alpha blending, and JavaScript/CSS-enabled browser engine
No reason you can't get all that in 200mhz/32mb/32mb.
May You Live in Interesting Times
RE: Yawn?
No reason you can't get all that in 200mhz/32mb/32mb.
Maybe not. But who's done it (with acceptable performance)?
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: Yawn?
You should ask who hasn't; the list is much shorter.
May You Live in Interesting Times
RE: Yawn?
(from N800/Internet Tablet 2007: 330/128/256)
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: Yawn?
The iPhone has an Intel PXA320 ("Monahan P") as its main CPU, and it's not running at 200 MHz. Current iPods ship with 64 meg of RAM.
RE: Yawn?
No apple. Just everyone else on the list. By the way, I believe you're wrong on the Monahans and Apple's using a Samsung part, but they've been very coy about what's inside the iphone.
And yes, they have gone to 64mb. It's the best price point right now for the parts.
May You Live in Interesting Times
RE: Yawn?
I think you know better than to underestimate that...
I believe you're wrong on the Monahans...
Yeah, I've heard that theory, too, and it's possible. The story on the Samsung thing is exceedingly confused. Engadget got it from Ars, saying that they got it from Reuters who got it from "an Apple spokeswoman". I can't find that story on Ars. Then AppleInsider claims "an Apple Germany spokesman" said it was an Intel chip. Then Bill Kirkus of Intel said it wasn't. Then Dario Bucci of Intel Italy said, no, they didn't do it, but it was an XSCALE, so they deserved some of the credit. Then AppleInsider claimed it was Samsung, attributing this news to "people familiar with the handset". So it's (possibly) Samsung--although it's not clear which of theirs it could be to me, and I'm not aware that Samsung is an XSCALE licensee, but maybe I missed something--or it might be Marvell, who bought Intel's XSCALE business a while back--I should have remembered that, but I'm a few time zones off this week...
I can't feel too bad, Engadget forgot that, too: "The iPhone (no, not that iPhone, or this one either) is powered by an Intel processor, right? Afterall, Steve Jobs told us all himself that one of the major reasons for making the switch to Intel was due to their sexy silicon roadmap"...)
Bottom line is, no one knows except the companies involved, and they're not talkin'. Kinda.
But, regardless of vendor, if the iPhone's CPU is running at 200MHz, I'll eat one.
IPhone is Tri-Core ARM !!!
The fanboy version:
The CEO of ARM Holdings plc reported that the iPhone was powered not by one but three ARM-type CPU, and even gave the model: the PXA320. This CPU is manufactured by Marvell and feature 256KB cache L2, a 32-bits memory bus and is clocked at 800MHz, but a 1.2GHz model has been rumored too. For sure there is more than enough power to encode video.
We can now understand why Apple did not communicate further in details about the iPhone hardware. First, power consumption needs to be tightly controlled in order to save battery life. One also understand why there is also no details concerning OSX Leopard Mobile, as it requires a multi-CPU management as well as an advanced power management built in the OS. Of course giving a call will only require a small % of this available CPU raw power, and one can expect that Apple did NOT unveiled all the features of this mobile phone.
For sure we will know more when the iPhone will be launched at the WWDC 2007 in June.
http://www.hardmac.com/news/2007-02-08/
The ignorant version.
Further to an "email to the editor" which estimated that there may be three ARM processor cores in the Apple iPhone, reports came forward that the main CPU for the iPhone is a PXA320, formerly the Monahan applications processor from Intel Corp., now supplied by Marvell Technology Group Ltd. The PXA320 is therefore a descendant of the StrongARM processor developed by Digital Equipment Corp. under an architectural license from ARM in the 1990s (see Feb. 1 story).When asked how many ARM processor cores were in the iPhone, East said his company has a good track record of not talking about customers' products. "ARM is in 90 percent of the world's [mobile phone] handsets; we're in WiFi, baseband processors and applications processors and most of the world's MP3 players. So it's at least three," East said.
http://www.informationweek.com/internet/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=197003973
and of course the reality that most OEM's are trying to reduce the number of cores their devices require.
Surur
They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...
Hey!! I made associate writer at PDA247. Come see my nattering over there!!
www.clieuk.co.uk/wm.shtml
RE: Yawn?
But, regardless of vendor, if the iPhone's CPU is running at 200MHz, I'll eat one.
That would make some good YouTube, Lefty.
Hope you're wrong--not for my own sake, but Apple's: they so need the publicity!
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: Yawn?
But, regardless of vendor, if the iPhone's CPU is running at 200MHz, I'll eat one.
That's a safe bet.
I got the Samsung rumor through a different source: The taipai times reported that one of the Chinese trade rags reported who the parts suppliers are. Can't recall right now which Chinese trade rag but I did see the report on their web site. They had an article congratulationg a bunch of Chinese companies for being suppliers, and mentioned Samsung as the CPU provider in an aside.
May You Live in Interesting Times
No screenshots?
-------------------------------
PocketFactory, www.pocketfactory.com
The iPhone Blog, www.theiphoneblog.com
RE: No screenshots?
Reminds me of another infamous OS...
http://www.access-company.com/news/press/PalmSource/2004/092804_cobalt.html
RE: No screenshots?
If it were *me* I'd put a really whiz-bang action title on there to show that this is a huge step up from FrankenGarnet. Something like......Doom? Quake? A racing game? Basically, anything involving 3d and/or a lot of sprites being animated and pushed around onscreen. Bejeweled (not even Bejeweled 2!) is one of the least hardware-intensive titles imaginable. It runs on everything from monochrome OS4 Palm devices to bargain basement cell phones. Not what you associate with a showcase title for a new OS by any means.
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
RE: No screenshots?
If we do get some or come across some from other sources I will post them.
RE: No screenshots?
http://www.access-company.com/products/linux/alp.html
No 320x320 in ALP?
Very interesting tidbit there...
Display
240 x 320 display - QVGA (optimized for the platform)
320 x 480 display - HVGA
800 x 480 display - Widescreen (maximum)
65k color support (minimum)
256k color support (maximum)
No 320x320. I could swear I saw it there before. Will this be a problem for PalmOS native apps? What does this say about ALP on Treos (as if we did not know already). Also no square screen support at all...
Surur
They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...
Hey!! I made associate writer at PDA247. Come see my nattering over there!!
www.clieuk.co.uk/wm.shtml
RE: No screenshots?
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: No screenshots?
RE: No screenshots?
No 320x320. I could swear I saw it there before. Will this be a problem for PalmOS native apps?
Nice catch, Surer. Interesting tidbit, indeed. My guess is that Palm OS apps would run on it just like they do on rectangular screen Palm OS devices: with the dynamic input area expanded for handwriting recognition at the bottom.
There's gotta be a story behind this, dontcha think? In Asian languages handwritten text entry is far more practical than using a keypad, so the dynamic input area may have been a really high priority for ACCESS. So much so that once they could see Palm wasn't biting they didn't even bother supporting screens that couldn't handle a DIA in the first rev.
Or... maybe it's a typo.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: No screenshots?
Ideally, the DIA would be the place to handle any language text entry, but that will complicate things at least a little (for example, the space stroke in English graffiti is the same as the number one stroke in Chinese). In that case, I'd assume that the Asian lanuguage characters would need to take precedent, and they would need to find some other way to write the English/Roman characters. I'm not sure what they could do, but better minds than mine have certainly already been considering all of this.
Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
RE: No screenshots?
I'm not sure I understand what you mean.
Ryan's seen it. David Beers has seen it. David Beers has developed some code on an early version. If you'd gone to either of the last two LinuxWorlds here in the States, you'd have seen it, too.
We've demo'd the platform, quite publicly, at LinuxWorld SF, LinuxWorld Boston and now at 3GSM, in a booth right out on the show floor. The nearest door was at least thirty yards away. We've shown it on Intel hardware and on cell phones in the past. This week, we're showing it on development boards from TI and from Marvell, as well as on some form-factor devices.
So....huh?
RE: No screenshots?
Back in the day, leaked images of a new "Palm" OS release (especially one so radical as this promises to be) would set enthusiast sites ablaze. ALP is received to sounds of crickets chirping.
But since Palm likely won't be adopting this platform, that is to be expected.
-------------------------------
PocketFactory, www.pocketfactory.com
The iPhone Blog, www.theiphoneblog.com
RE: No screenshots?
-------------------------------
PocketFactory, www.pocketfactory.com
The iPhone Blog, www.theiphoneblog.com
RE: No screenshots?
Yes, Virginia, there is an ACCESS Linux Platform!
ONE Real Screenshot
I found the ONE real screenshot, which looks bigger than 320 x 320:
http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/12/access-linux-platform-on-display-at-3gsm/
RE: Such a quantum leap :)
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: Such a quantum leap :)
btw, cobalt also supports other resolutions and works faster & smoother
and linux, both on palm & nokia will be great failure. palm is not apple, it's road to nowhere, one way
RE: Such a quantum leap :)
I have no idea what you mean when you say Cobalt was "smoother" than ALP, nor how you might have come to such a judgment. Perhaps you can explain.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: Such a quantum leap :)
yes, i have not seen ALP like you, but i've seen other linuxes on palm. it's depressing
RE: Such a quantum leap :)
http://digg.com/gadgets/Ars_Technica_reviews_the_Nokia_N800_Internet_Tablet
Linux suxx
Thanks for the link
The best compliment that I can pay the Nokia N800 is that it feels like using a really small computer rather than a smartphone or PDA. I've spent some time using the various UMPCs available, including the Samsung Q1, and I'd rather use the N800 hands-down.In contrast to the frustration I often felt when using the 770, the N800 was a joy to use. The expanded memory, support for SD cards, and most importantly, the beefed-up CPU eliminated the endless delays I experienced switching between applications on the 770. The N800 handles multitasking like a pro. I was able to have two or three web pages open along with a couple of other applications and performance was very smooth—even with an Internet radio stream playing. The menu system is much more intuitive, and within 15 minutes I was comfortable enough with it to navigate the menus without having to think about them.
Personally, I expect ALP's usability to be a little better than Maemo's, but once you use an N800 you start to realize that the two operating systems are trying to be very different things and the comparison isn't really fair.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: Such a quantum leap :)
http://www.pdaexpertos.com/noticias/117145863871334.shtml
It is PAINFULLY SLOW !
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Yawn?
If they are only now releasing the PDK, when can devices be expected? Next year?
Surur
They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...
Hey!! I made associate writer at PDA247. Come see my nattering over there!!
www.clieuk.co.uk/wm.shtml