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Comments on: New ALP Details and Screenshots

Access Linux Platform Home ScreenACCESS has posted new official screenshots of ACCESS Linux Platform v1.0 and new details on ALP. The OS is optimized for a 240x320 display but will also be able to support HVGA 320x480 and WVGA 800x480 sizes. There is also a list of native apps that will ship with ALP and a Windows based desktop syncing program. In addition, a 200 MHz ARM 9 chip is the minimum requirement but ACCESS recommends using a 400 MHz ARM 9 or greater applications processor. The company has yet to announce a licensee for the platform.
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Uh...

SeldomVisitor @ 2/12/2007 8:04:25 PM # Q
Why is ALP more interesting than, say, Symbian here on PalmInfocenter?

That is to say, PALM has shown zero interest in ALP as they have shown zero interest in Symbian, suggesting that ALP be accorded the same article space as...Symbian.

RE: Uh...
Ryan @ 2/12/2007 8:21:09 PM # Q
I see your point but keep in mind - Symbian doesn't have a built in Palm OS Garnet compatibility layer and wasn't put together by the former "keepers" of the Palm OS. But in the future you will likely see less coverage of ALP here and more on MobileLinuxInfo.com.


RE: Uh...
SeldomVisitor @ 2/12/2007 8:46:07 PM # Q
You need prominent links to your alternate sites - no kidding.

RE: Uh...
cbowers @ 2/12/2007 11:47:16 PM # Q
There's more than one?

RE: Uh...
legodude522 @ 2/13/2007 2:42:54 AM # Q
Shows all the sites- http://www.mobileinfocenter.com/mic/

Palm m125 > Palm Zire 71 > Tapwave Zodiac 1 > Palm Zire 72 > Sharp Zaurus SL-C1000 + 4gb MicroDrive + Palm Tungsten T|3 (1100mah)
My T|3 is too [i]sexy[/i] for me.
RE: Uh...
SeldomVisitor @ 2/13/2007 6:58:11 AM # Q
>> You need prominent links to your alternate sites - no kidding.
>
> There's more than one?

Q.E.D.

Giggle.

Reply to this comment

Access stole my GUI

Foo Fighter @ 2/12/2007 8:15:43 PM # Q
It appears Access took the same approach to UI design in solving the problem of system status placement and application titlebars...

http://www.pocketfactory.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/palmos-mockup-new-interface.jpg

I demand royalties!

-------------------------------
PocketFactory, www.pocketfactory.com
The iPhone Blog, www.theiphoneblog.com

RE: Access stole my GUI
twrock @ 2/12/2007 8:31:51 PM # Q
Yes, I'm sure that Access was waiting around until you showed the world you ideas before even considering the look of their GUI. Get a lawyer quick! There's millions to be made on a lawsuit!



Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt

RE: Access stole my GUI
freakout @ 2/12/2007 8:45:23 PM # Q
Foo, how do we know that it wasn't you stealing Access' IP? ;)

I suggest a mud wrestling contest to settle this.

RE: Access stole my GUI
Foo Fighter @ 2/12/2007 9:06:24 PM # Q
I was being droll. But it interesting that Access not only came to the same approach, but also won't be supporting square display ratios either, apparently. I won't lament that loss.

-------------------------------
PocketFactory, www.pocketfactory.com
The iPhone Blog, www.theiphoneblog.com
RE: Access stole my GUI
Scott R @ 2/13/2007 7:55:39 PM # Q
Meh. That's a big waste of screen real estate. Palm OS5 can display the application name (possibly non-critical info, in and of itself) and all of the statuses I really need, all on one bar.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

http://Tapland.com
- Tapwave Zodiac News, Reviews, & Discussion -

Reply to this comment

Looks nice

t3h @ 2/12/2007 9:09:35 PM # Q
Looks nice, if not a little OS X inspired with the blue background. I don't mind that :)

Palm TX + 1GB SD + Motorola v3x = awesomeness
Reply to this comment

This screenshot looks better

roubaixpro @ 2/12/2007 10:31:39 PM # Q
Why does this screenshot look better than the funky blue ones posted above, particularly the multi-colored icons?


http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/12/access-linux-platform-on-display-at-3gsm/

RE: This screenshot looks better
stonemirror @ 2/14/2007 12:48:26 PM # Q
Because it's a project in progress. The static screenshots were created a month or two ago; we've designed and added improved icons since that time.


Reply to this comment

Great but...

gregjsmith @ 2/12/2007 11:27:07 PM # Q
This looks nice, but when will it be available for my TX?

http://homepage.mac.com/gregjsmith
Reply to this comment

Starting behind again I see

TrafficGeek @ 2/12/2007 11:26:44 PM # Q
...802.11g... where's 802.11n?

This is getting better. The prove will be if the vaporware ever condense into 'actual'-ware...sometime before our Sun expands into a Red Giant...

They still smell like a buck short and a dollar late...

US Robotics Pilot 5000 -> 3Com Palm III -> Sony Cile N710C -> Sony Clie T615C -> Palm LifeDrive

RE: Starting behind again I see
cbowers @ 2/12/2007 11:48:42 PM # Q
Let's see what the hardware will support before clamoring for buzzwords. Current PalmOS doesn't max out anything near 802.11b, nevermind G or N speeds. The only reason to even fuss over G is so that your PDA doesn't slow down the rest of the clients too.

And no word about WiMAX !! ( IEEE 802.16 )
zuhmir @ 2/13/2007 5:43:25 AM # Q
they are really starting behind!
WiMAX is an essential part of the future! In less than one year from today,
every mobile device will have WiMAX capability.
WiMAX allows nationwide coverage of wireless network, no more searching for the nearest coffee place to find a hotspot!

RE: Starting behind again I see
Alpha1220 @ 2/13/2007 4:48:17 PM # Q
This is the problem when consumers become educated by product manufacturers instead of doing their own research or using independent information.

The n standard has yet to be ratified, and, more to the point, has yet to be finalized in terms of its precise specifications and methods of transmission/operation. We are still at least a year away from seeing actual n ratified/standardized equipment, maybe longer.

And yes, that's right: the fancy pre-n or draft-n equipment they are currently charging a premium for? The stuff you are prone to see at Bestbuy or Circuit City or hawked on amazon? Less than even odds that most of it is going to be fully interoperable with the true n standard once it comes out -- if lucky, it will be able to stage it down to g. If lucky. And even if it does somehow handle the final n standard (perhaps with the aid of a firmware up) it isn't going to take full advantage of it.

Access is not only being rational about not grabbing the n standard (more for the reason of its pointless in terms of bandwidth demand), but it's also being ethical, because to claim that it is actually coding n compatibility would be a lie at this stage.

Your best bet? Grab a g with Mimo and don't believe the hype.

Reply to this comment

iMessenger lives!

bcombee @ 2/13/2007 12:37:35 AM # Q
I find it funny that they're using the iMessenger trademark. That was the name for the email app on the old Palm VII device that used special servers at palm.net over the Mobitex network. That name had been dead since the i705 went EOL, so it's nice to see it get used again five years later.

RE: iMessenger lives!
cervezas @ 2/13/2007 12:26:59 PM # Q
That's pretty funny. Here and I thought Apple had trademarked the letter "i".

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
Reply to this comment

What, no 320x320 support?

palmdoc88 @ 2/13/2007 3:54:14 AM # Q
Doesn't ALP support 320x320? Sigh...

http://palmdoc.net
RE: What, no 320x320 support?
hkklife @ 2/13/2007 2:33:57 PM # Q
In another room, a few executives watched Carl Yankowski's interview on CNBC, taping it for playback at the employee meeting that was to commence in minutes. After CNBC announcers gushed over "the most talked-about IPO," the camera cut to Carl Yankowski in the Nasdaq studio. Usually a compelling public speaker, Yankowski seemed out of his element. When asked about larger screens for palmtops, he answered stiffly, "We are well positioned whichever way the market goes." As the interview came to a close, the reporter said, "I've got to ask you about your suit." Yankowski smiled. He was wearing a very special suit, he let on, designed to satisfy the public's high expectations from Palm's IPO. The shiny pinstripes woven into the otherwise standard wool suit were made from threads of pure gold. CNBC cut back to the studio anchor. "Was that for real?" he asked the correspondent. The Palm managers assembled around the TV set looked at each other. "We're not showing this video," one of the executives decreed. Then they walked out to start the employee meeting.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0471089656/


Taking this CLASSIC excerpt to the next level:

Access are well-positioned to make headway with "larger screens for palmtops". The question, of course, is whether ANY of their numerous licensees will jump onboard for 800x480 support. Heck, 320x480 would be a huge improvement over the current small square 320x320 on current POS Treos. Of course, any "modern" resolution is better than the (depressingly) one-step-backwards 240x320 for which Access are oddly intent on touting their "optimizing".

Is this (WinMob6 launch + ALP tidbits) what it will take to FINALLY get "larger screens for palmtops" on a PALMtop device? Couldn't we at least get a physically larger 320x320 LCD?

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: What, no 320x320 support?
mikecane @ 2/14/2007 9:36:53 AM # Q
240x320 screens are probably very very cheap, hence their support for them. You are probably thinking of a PocketPC form factor. You forget both the iPod and the Zune use that resolution too.

MS did the same thing when the developed the UMPC: use off-the-shelf components to drive down the cost. Unfortunately, theory met reality and those $500-$900 UMPCs became $1,000+!

I'd like to see at least *one* ALP device released in the US just so I can fondle, if not thoroughly molest, it!

RE: What, no 320x320 support?
shinobi @ 2/23/2007 8:38:23 PM # Q
[quote]
Supported Platforms
To date, libsqlfs is tested on 32-bit i386 GNU/Linux (Ubnutu 5.04) and StrongArm (Treo 650 phone) Access Linux Platform.
[/quote]
Source: http://www.nongnu.org/libsqlfs/


This is taken from the page of libsqlfs, an open source component developed for ALP.

They tested it on a Treo 650 WITH ALP.


Besides, the resolution issues are trivial. It depends more on the people who design the graphics for the UI. The width and height of a screen are just variables.


Reply to this comment

Any cheers?

uuhh @ 2/13/2007 8:19:34 AM # Q
No?

Reply to this comment

Palm is dying

fleehartsell3 @ 2/13/2007 9:43:42 AM # Q
Too little too late. Palm is dying -- too slow to innovate.

RE: Palm is dying
uuhh @ 2/13/2007 9:52:37 AM # Q
It is not innovation
It's five step back

Reply to this comment

At least it's a complete solution

rmhurdman @ 2/13/2007 11:16:26 AM # Q
The problem with Palm was that if you wanted something cool, you had to cobble it together yourself. You had to add IM, add audio player, add video player, add disk mode (except EndOfLifeDrive) etc. You even had to add on DateBook+ if you wanted improved functionality. There was no end to what you could cobble together, but I am very impressed that ALP will ship as something very usable to most people. Especially for people who never install third party apps.
It looks like they are taking a note from Apple (hopefully) and shipping something that "just works". Now let's see who'll sign up and provide the hardware.

RE: At least it's a complete solution
cervezas @ 2/13/2007 12:31:37 PM # Q
Yeah, it really is quite a lot more complete than Palm OS (er... Garnet OS). There are some nice benefits of this for third party application developers, too. For example, with NetFront integrated I've heard it hinted that there will be a browser control that you can embed in your app (nice if you're developing an RSS reader, ebook reader, or want rich help files). Having a free relational database built in is extremely powerful (Microsoft has one, but each user has to pay their pound of flesh to MS if they want to sync its data with another database). It looks like developers will have access to "Multimedia Services" and "Messaging Framework" APIs which I'm guessing should make it a lot easier to develop stuff with streaming media, P2P interaction and "presence." Frankly, just having the assurance that there is a file system at all times is going to be quite welcome, making ports of apps and application libraries from other platforms a lot easier.

It's complete in one sense, but from a developer standpoint it looks like a really nice platform to innovate on, too.


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Reply to this comment

Little too late

serpico @ 2/13/2007 11:53:05 AM # Q
I think it's a little too late and perhaps the introduction of Windows Mobile 6 forced ALP to show us more of the new OS. As someone has posted above, where and when will devices come out for this? Is Palm going to be the only big manufacturer and even then, perhaps only Treo devices? My TX is nice but limited for my every day use with Outlook. For business users using Outlook, it seems that the new WM6 devices can really provide more. No surprise since both software apps are made from Microsoft.

I remember the day we joked about Windows CE devices here when they came out and I never imagined a day like this for Palm users. All we have are Treo's that are big, imagine if Palm never made the deal with Handspring. It would be very different today I think for us Palm users. Honestly, it's been hard being a PDA user and switching devices to find that perfect match. Maybe it's time to try a Blackberry 8800 or iPhone...

RE: Little too late
twrock @ 2/13/2007 8:38:18 PM # Q
Is Palm going to be the only big manufacturer and even then, perhaps only Treo devices?

I keep wondering, has anyone heard of Asia? It was "discovered" quite a few years ago, so I would have thought Americans would have heard of it by now. It's a "decent" sized market for mobile devices.


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt

Reply to this comment

Minority?

razorpit @ 2/13/2007 7:22:05 PM # Q
I guess I'm in the minority. I was pretty happy to finally see something new out of the "Palm camp" other than a logo or name change. I've had the "pleasure" of using a Windows Mobile device recently for a couple of weeks on a special work project and thought the overall experience was pretty terrible.

Being a Palm user since '98 I can't say I'm happy with where the platform is today but I think this is a positive step forward and should open up some doors in the near future. Sure Palm is currently in a position of playing catch-up but if WinMob 6 is anything like WinMob 5, and ALP can bring the "Palm zen" to meet modern day expectations and requirements, I think Palm has a good chance of turning the ship around. My Treo 650 is about 2 years old now (might even be older, I can't remember) but it still does everything I need it to do. In that time several of my more geeky friends have gone threw more than a couple WinMob devices while the trusty Palm keeps on ticking. Considering the Treo spends 6-7 months out of the year in motorcycle tank bags, tossed in with scuba gear, and quite a few camping trips, I'd have to say it has taken its fair share of abuse.

To ACCESS I say bravo and, it's about time!

--Dave

RE: Minority?
cervezas @ 2/13/2007 10:03:15 PM # Q
It's the crowd that posts comments here that is the minority, I think. I wouldn't make too much of this group being representative of Palm OS users as a whole. While I think there's obviously going to be some skepticism about ALP until we see it on real devices, I dare say most Palm users that read forums like this one are following its progress with considerable interest and are heartened to see the progress.

While I'm of the opinion that ALP will not be the only successor to the Palm OS out there, I do think it holds promise as the successor that could do the most to bring the Palm OS experience (broadly speaking) to a global audience. As a developer I'm looking forward to working with ALP.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Minority?
ChiA @ 2/14/2007 5:31:20 AM # Q
There are people here making the presumption that Palm will actually use ALP. Its recruitment of Linux people hints that they will but the purchase of the perpetual Garnet license hints against this idea.

Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital. Aaron Levenstein
RE: Minority?
cervezas @ 2/14/2007 9:52:47 AM # Q
Agreed.

Also, if Palm had an interest in ALP don't you think they would have wanted to throw ACCESS a bone with a little PR buzz when there have been ALP press releases? Sure would have been a nice way for Palm to respond to questions about the future of Palm OS if they considered ALP to be their future. Instead, they've been dead quiet.

It's disappointing in one respect, but there is a potential silver lining. Notice how ACCESS is using the term "Garnet VM" ("Virtual Machine") to refer to their Palm OS emulator now? Just like the "Java VM" that is on practically every phone made? The idea that they are trying to convey, I think, is that Garnet is becoming an application execution environment that can run on multiple platforms, as opposed to being an OS unto itself. It can be part of ALP, but it can be part of other Linux platforms, or even WinCE or Symbian with some work. Compared to Java, Garnet is extremely powerful, though, with lots of access to low-level system APIs (possibly more than ever before, now that it's running on Linux). While I don't by any stretch of the imagination think Garnet is going to be taking over the world like Java ME has, even having it run on two major platforms (ALP and a next-generation OS from Palm) may be a good thing for a lot of users and developers. Giving the Palm OS ecosystem a shot in the arm will benefit both platforms in their initial adoption. Eventually the Garnet VM will become less and less important, but it has the potential of being a more powerful transitional force when it is seen as a multi-platform, multi-vendor environment than as being unique to just one vendor.

Will this strategy succeed? I'm not sure, but it's certainly an interesting development (assuming I'm right about this being what is developing!)

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Minority?
PenguinPowered @ 2/14/2007 2:16:36 PM # Q
if Palm had an interest in ALP don't you think they would have wanted to throw ACCESS a bone with a little PR buzz

That would depend on the level of interest. If they were evaluating ALP but uncertain they wouldn't want to reveal anything. If they were certain but didn't want to unsettle the stockmarket with confusion the wouldn't wnat to reveal anything.

There's no win in admiting you're evaluating something and plenty of opportunity for the info to backfire on you.



May You Live in Interesting Times

RE: Minority?
mikecane @ 2/15/2007 10:00:55 AM # Q
>>>I do think it holds promise as the successor that could do the most to bring the Palm OS experience (broadly speaking)

Which "PalmOS" do you mean? What ACCESS has isn't "PalmOS" as we've known it, other than the Garnet emulation. And won't "their" Garnet have the same irritating limitations as "our" Garnet? And will "their" Garnet be able to take advantage of things like FontSmoother, et al, that add/change things?

Reply to this comment

Motorola - Future Provider of Great ALP Devices?

ChiA @ 2/14/2007 5:35:39 AM # Q
I believe it's possible that Motorola will become an ALP licensee. Seeing how they:
- bid for PalmSource
- produce Linux smartphones
- are platform agnostic e.g. they have just announced a Symbian phone but use Linux and WinMobile too.

then their using ALP seems a very rational, logical prospect.

Finally the Palm community will have a manufacturer who will have a Garnet OS on decent devices without having to wait for the painfully slow Palm.

RE: Motorola - Future Provider of Great ALP Devices?
cervezas @ 2/14/2007 9:49:27 AM # Q
I thought that might be a possibility at one time, too. But not any longer:

http://www.limofoundation.org



David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Motorola - Future Provider of Great ALP Devices?
SeldomVisitor @ 2/14/2007 9:59:02 AM # Q
Cool link - thanks.

Reply to this comment

Colligan to Access on ALP: DROP DEAD.

Gekko @ 2/14/2007 11:28:25 AM # Q

He doesn't want any part of ALP.



RE: Colligan to Access on ALP: DROP DEAD.
SeldomVisitor @ 2/14/2007 11:46:23 AM # Q
Though it's fairly clear this is correct, I'm scratching my head WHY it's correct.

Are the ACCESS folks SO inept that PALM decided they could do it cheaper alone?

Is the potential ACCESS licensing so expensive that PALM said "We'll pass."?

Or, perhaps, is PALM not really doing it anyway but something somewhat different?

[I personally think the "big ephemeral Linux push" is on the server side but have just about nothing interesting to back that belief up...]

RE: Colligan to Access on ALP: DROP DEAD.
Gekko @ 2/14/2007 12:14:46 PM # Q

1. The two current OS's (FrankenGarnet and WinMoB) are enough and "good enough".
2. The PalmSource braintrust has proven their incompetence more than once and Colligan will not/can not afford to be fooled again.

Why should PALM waste their limited resources on a dubious OS called ALP?


RE: Colligan to Access on ALP: DROP DEAD.
cbowers @ 2/14/2007 1:13:57 PM # Q
Because Garnet is a dead end. It will take *MORE* from their "brain trust" to take Garnet anywhere more competitive in a stable fashion.

Then there's driver support. We're worse off now then we were in 2003.

The "brain trust" has the potential of less work to do with many more hands working on the open and closed source portions of alp/linux. But then they had that in 2003, and killed it, so it's likely beyond their paradigm acceptance.

Besides, does any one trust their brains? Seems like folks such as Dimitry Grinberg have done more for Garnet than Palm has.

RE: Colligan to Access on ALP: DROP DEAD.
cbowers @ 2/14/2007 1:26:41 PM # Q
"Colligan to Access on ALP: DROP DEAD."

Access: "You first"

Guesses on who the first to drop will be?

I'm guessing the one not moving forward.

RE: Colligan to Access on ALP: DROP DEAD.
mikecane @ 2/15/2007 10:03:27 AM # Q
If Palm sees ACCESS selling like mad in Japan, India, China, and making inroads into Europe, you can bet he'll do a lovely let's-kiss-and-make-up.

But by that time, it might (again!) be too late... another company, or several, will have acted sooner.

Interesting chess game, this.

Inroads into Europe?
stonemirror @ 2/15/2007 11:01:36 AM # Q
...making inroads into Europe...

Perhaps this is an opportune moment to remind folks that the ACCESS Linux Platform is an Orange-approved platform and that we're actively working with Orange on the creation of the "Orange Applications Suite" to run on ACCESS Linux Platform-enabled phones. Orange has close to 90 million mobile customers, worldwide.

"Orange is committed to developing innovative and exciting mobile applications," said Yves Maitre, vice president, devices, Orange. "This is part of our wider Signature strategy, which delivers a consistent customer experience across a variety of devices and applications. Having ALP as an Orange approved platform and working with ACCESS to develop and deliver the Orange Application Package for ALP, will enable us to foster the growth of the mobile Linux market."

The full press release (from last August) is at http://www.access-company.com/news/press/PalmSource/2006/081306_alporange.html


RE: Colligan to Access on ALP: DROP DEAD.
mikecane @ 2/16/2007 10:07:05 AM # Q
Orange, being Euro-based, is probably GSM? The same GSM we can use here in the US? Are they known for selling unlocked phones? (Or are in fact unlocked phones the norm over there? I keep forgetting their EU rules...)

Orange blah blah blah
ChiA @ 2/18/2007 7:28:29 AM # Q
Orange has a habit of making inane platitudes and announcements.

It appears that Orange isn't at all committed to Palm; Orange Switzerland is the only European Orange division to actually offer any Treo to its customers, mercifully it's the Treo 680.

Is this further evidence of Palm not using ALP?

RE: Colligan to Access on ALP: DROP DEAD.
stonemirror @ 2/18/2007 9:53:06 AM # Q
My original comment mentioned specific work to be done, jointly, in order to make this happen. That work is happening, and has been going on for some months now. I'd say that, all by itself, places this a step above "inane platitudes and announcements".

I'm bemused at how you can take a clear indication of acceptance--and not even an indication, a flat-out statement, accompanied by a larger plan of action--of the ACCESS Linux Platform by the second-largest carrier in Europe and interpret that as not only as having no significance as far as the platform is concerned, but also constituting "evidence" of Palm not using ALP.

That's quite a contortion act.


caught in the (contortion) act
ChiA @ 2/18/2007 5:29:34 PM # Q
stonemirror, have you just done what I think you have done and inadvertently revealed Palm will be using ALP-powered Treos on Orange? I suspect that will remain a rhetorical question which will remain unanswered by yourself.

I've been a very good Orange customer for the past ten years and I've had plenty of opportunity to view their press releases and I can reflect on how things subsequently turned out, who remembers Orange's first attempt at a pre 3G videophone? Believe me, Orange will prefer to forget!

As for the press release, yes, it's a statement of intention and some groundwork but it could still all be for nothing until the moment handsets are in subscribers' hands.

Well congratulations on the ACCESS work with Orange. This close an association suggests at least Orange partnering with a ODM (HTC?) to make an Orange branded ALP smartphone.

It's a fair point that Orange currently doesn't show much interest in the Treo; it neither offers the 680 nor 750 in its significant European divisions yet both can now be purchased SIM free from European Palm online shops.

On the issue of bemusement, I was making two separate points in my prior post and I'm entertained that they may not be so separate after all...

A current smartphone in the making (i.e. with wifi and/or 3G) which can run Garnet OS on my present carrier! Good stuff! It doesn't even matter whether it's Palm or not just as long as it runs Garnet.

It does seem that the future's bright, the future's Orange!

Thank you!

RE: Colligan to Access on ALP: DROP DEAD.
stonemirror @ 2/18/2007 11:03:51 PM # Q
stonemirror, have you just done what I think you have done and inadvertently revealed Palm will be using ALP-powered Treos on Orange?

Nope, certainly not. If you read it that way, I'd have to say that's unsupported by anything I said. To be clear: Orange's involvement with the ACCESS Linux Platform says nothing, either way, about any decisions Palm might make, or have made, regardng their use, or non-use, of the platform.

Nor do I, as I said earlier. Sorry if I gave you some different impression.


RE: Colligan to Access on ALP: DROP DEAD.
stonemirror @ 2/18/2007 11:08:17 PM # Q
It does seem that the future's bright, the future's Orange!

Well, we enjoy working with 'em, and I believe the feeling's mutual.


Reply to this comment

Super Jumbo sized ALP Screenshots

Ryan @ 2/16/2007 12:09:44 AM # Q
RE: Super Jumbo sized ALP Screenshots
twrock @ 2/16/2007 1:01:51 AM # Q
Oh, now that's frustrating. I just finished my ZLauncher iPhone theme and along comes another nice looking idea to copy. :)


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/

RE: Super Jumbo sized ALP Screenshots
mikecane @ 2/16/2007 10:10:21 AM # Q
Can someone detail the top icons?

I understand the Bluetooth icon, maybe even the phone and music note icon. But the down arrow? The magnifying glass?

*groan* -- realizing there seems to be NO G!! Gone is the bottom bar we all know and love...

RE: Super Jumbo sized ALP Screenshots
stonemirror @ 2/19/2007 12:32:27 PM # Q
Can someone detail the top icons?

The status bar in that shot shows the full laundry list of status icons and annunciators up there. Going from the left: the handset indicates a call in progress or an incoming call; the bang indicates a pending user alert, such as a call missed or an SMS or voicemail message received; the thing with the musical note indicates that the media player is playing something (or has been paused while playing something due to an incoming call, say); the arrow indicates a download in progress; the HotSync icon means the device is currently synchronizing its data to someplace; the Bluetooth icon means that the Bluetooth radio is on; the antenna means that the WiFi radio is on; the "AB" indicates the current input mode (in this case, "alphabetic", i.e. triple-tap, with caps lock on--other possibilities might be "Ab", "12", "t9", etc.); the speaker indicates that the sound is on and gives an idea of the volume; the magnifying glass allows you to access the "Find" application--that's actually the only non-status item there; the next two are straightforward: cell network status and signal strength and battery status.

Gone is the bottom bar we all know and love...

Keep in mind that this is not "the look" of the platform; it is "a theme", and potentially one of many. The platform is designed to facilitate the creation and use of such themes throughout the system, making customization by carriers much easier and allowing it to carry further through the system (e.g. into appropriately-written third-party apps, etc.) in a consistent way.

RE: Super Jumbo sized ALP Screenshots
mikecane @ 2/19/2007 3:44:28 PM # Q
>>>the arrow indicates a download in progress

Ah, thanks for that. And the others too.

RE: Super Jumbo sized ALP Screenshots
Surur @ 2/19/2007 3:50:54 PM # Q
Arnt many of those particularly unnecessary

I am thinking of:

the thing with the musical note indicates that the media player is playing something (or has been paused while playing something due to an incoming call, say);
the arrow indicates a download in progress;


These are liable to cause confusion of third party apps are used who do not interface fully with the API

the Bluetooth icon means that the Bluetooth radio is on

This one seems unnecessary for an already cluttered status bar. The battery implications for bluetooth is not that high any more, and with many people using bluetooth headsets this will be a space that is permanently wasted on many devices.

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...
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RE: Super Jumbo sized ALP Screenshots
twrock @ 2/19/2007 10:43:51 PM # Q
Surur, would it not make sense that in a "mock-up" they would want to show all possibilities, not to limit it to the bare necessities? I like to keep my Palm's ZLauncher screen relatively free of clutter, but if I want to show people what my latest theme is capable of, I display a bundle of "junk" that I don't ever intend to use for myself. If ALP is truly flexible, the licensee/end user will have the option of what to display. So I guess it's just wait-and-see, unless David wants to enlighten us a little early regarding exactly how flexible it will be.

(It does seem to me that you are approaching ALP with a bit of negative prejudice. Any particular reason, or am I misreading that?)


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RE: Super Jumbo sized ALP Screenshots
stonemirror @ 2/20/2007 8:04:30 AM # Q
...would it not make sense that in a "mock-up" they would want to show all possibilities...

Sorry, I thought that too obvious to bother to mention. No, this is not a realistic status bar. It's highly unlikely that it would get this crowded in any normal use case.

...unless David wants to enlighten us a little early regarding exactly how flexible it will be...

I'll actually need to check on to what degree, and to what level of detail, we discussed this publicly at 3GSM. Short of that, suffice it to say that the entire look of the interface, from the background "wallpaper", to the font used, to the shape and placement of the buttons, is easily configurable by a licensee, certainly.



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DIY ALP: A Stupid Fantasy, I Know...

mikecane @ 2/16/2007 10:12:18 AM # Q
NO!

That's probably the answer to my question: Any chance ACCESS will try an Invasion Of The Body Snatchers gambit and offer a version to PalmOS 5 device owners that would replace Garnet in Flash with ALP?

Reversible, of course... Just In Case.

RE: DIY ALP: A Stupid Fantasy, I Know...
Gekko @ 2/16/2007 12:24:18 PM # Q

someone looking for a soul for their LifeDrive? why not try Cobalt?

"Sometimes dead is better." - Stephen King



RE: DIY ALP: A Stupid Fantasy, I Know...
mikecane @ 2/16/2007 1:19:04 PM # Q
Just wanting to try something new.

And I prefer to think of my LifeDrive as being in suspended animation. Yeah, that's the ticket! Just like Buck Rogers!

In fact, it's an object from the future, brought back to me by Buck Rogers himself! Yeah, that's the ticket! And meet my wife, Wilma Deering!

RE: DIY ALP: A Stupid Fantasy, I Know...
stonemirror @ 2/19/2007 12:51:34 PM # Q
Any chance ACCESS will try an Invasion Of The Body Snatchers gambit and offer a version to PalmOS 5 device owners that would replace Garnet in Flash with ALP?

Rather than simply leave at Mike's proposed response ("NO!"), I can offer several reasons why you probably would not want to be holding your breath waiting for something along these lines.

1) It presupposes a level of total familiarity with insert-your-favorite-Garnet-OS-device-here's hardware that ACCESS does not necessarily possess, or if we do, may be precluded from using outside of specific contexts. We engage with different licensees (and with given licensees on different projects) in different ways, and to different degrees. Some projects simply involve our supplying a PDK to a licensee, at which point they take the ball and run with it, some entail greater involvement on our part. (And I won't be offering any commentary on the division of labor with respect to specific projects or licensees.)

Not only is detailed and intimate knowledge of the hardware required, but also complete understanding of the mechanisms used to reflash the device, which tend to be highly idiosyncratic.

2) It assumes that we'd figure that devoting the resources (engineering, testing, tech pubs, etc., etc., etc.) necessary to adapt the platform to insert-your-favorite-Garnet-OS-device-here was a good use of people's time, i.e., "What do you want us not to do instead?", which leads right into

3) That's not our business model. I can't see that providing such a version for free makes any sense for us, so presumably we'd need to charge for it in some form, and then we'd need to support end-purchasers, etc., etc. That's not the sort of business we're in with the ACCESS Linux Platform, really. It's difficult to scope out what kind of a price point we'd need to hit on something like that to have it make any sort of financial sense, but I can't imagine it'd really be attractive...

The ACCESS Linux Platform provides a path forward for curent Garnet users with Garnet VM, so their investment in applications, etc., is preserved. If a licensee were to ask us to provide a version which could do the sort of thing you suggest, and suggest a way to have it make some business sense for us, then it might happen, but I have a very difficult time seeing a percentage in our doing it unilaterally.

Trust me, we're not suffering from any lack of things with which to keep ourselves occupied.

RE: DIY ALP: A Stupid Fantasy, I Know...
mikecane @ 2/19/2007 3:43:00 PM # Q
Like I said, but much shorter (the .zip version): No!

RE: DIY ALP: A Stupid Fantasy, I Know...
shinobi @ 2/23/2007 8:47:01 PM # Q
Anyone knows if is ALP designed in a way so an team of volunteers can take the open source parts and adapt the whole system to an older palm device? (like, i.e. a Treo 600 or Zire 21)

After all, ALP is built on many OS components.

(Sorry for my crappy english)



RE: DIY ALP: A Stupid Fantasy, I Know...
PenguinPowered @ 2/23/2007 10:14:10 PM # Q
Anyone knows if is ALP designed in a way so an team of volunteers can take the open source parts and adapt the whole system to an older palm device?

Yes I do. No they haven't. Actually, the question doesn't make sense. Most of the open source parts are already as portable as they're likely to get. It would be hard for Access not to make their parts portable as well.

But the problem with porting to older Palm devices has nothing to do with ALP and everything to do with being able to port a Linux kernel to the device. You need to be able to write the device drivers and that takes reverse engineering skills or engineering documents or a combination of both.

May You Live in Interesting Times

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