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Comments on: Hawkins Hints at New Product Announcement in May

PalmAddicts has published a new interview with Palm Founder Jeff Hawkins. In it, Hawkins discusses his work at Numenta and Palm's "secret third business". Tantalisingly, he hints at a talk to come at Walt Mossberg's D Conference in May which he says Palm fans "should keep a close watch on".

"We’re going to be announcing something…but I won’t tell you what it is…we will be launching this year, not in the distant future. I’ll give you a much bigger hint: I’m going to be speaking at Walt Mossberg’s D Conference in May. It’s a high-end industry conference. Anyway, I’m going to be giving a talk there, and that would be something for the Palm fans to keep a close watch on."

Other highlights from the interview include Hawkins' thoughts on Palm's foray into Windows Mobile devices, which he basically describes as a move born out of fears of being shut out of Palm OS. He also states that it takes two years to design new products, hence why it will take a little time for the company's new-found control over its "destiny" to bear fruit.

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Let the Speculation Begin

Rhauer @ 3/5/2007 12:06:38 PM # Q
For me, I would be very happy if they would just introduce a state of the art TX

Still a big!!! fan of the two pda and phone setup.

Reply to this comment

Well, well, well

mikecane @ 3/5/2007 12:22:02 PM # Q
A missed opportunity: How does he feel/what does he think about the iPhone?

A very interesting interview. Cleared up many questions.

In one way, I feel better about Palm. In another way, I keep thinking of how many devs have quit PalmOS -- and what a fekkin mess FrankenGarnet is.

Argh, so many other questions I would have asked!

What's up with the Linux hiring?

Is Palm still committed to PDAs? Is *he* still committed to PDAs?

Did he ever try the Nokia 770 -- and his reaction?

What about the QC issues about the latest Treos?

What about the LifeDrive being killed?

Still many things unanswered.

And now I think: May is right before June -- and the iPhone!

RE: Well, well, well
SeldomVisitor @ 3/5/2007 12:29:23 PM # Q
> ...Still many things unanswered....

"Why did you cease being CTO?"

RE: Well, well, well
mikecane @ 3/5/2007 12:53:33 PM # Q
He's more interested in Numenta, obviously.

I don't blame him, either.

RE: Well, well, well
freakout @ 3/5/2007 4:57:45 PM # Q
He says he spends only half his working time at Palm; maybe CTO requires a bit more dedication than that... Anyhoo, it's not like you have to be the CTO in order to come up with new product ideas.

(still an interesting question, though)

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

Reply to this comment

Is he serious?

durvivor @ 3/5/2007 12:22:15 PM # Q
I'm going to release something cool in May. Well, Mr. Hawkins, though I may look forward to that, please keep your mouth shut.

I have this deep, deep, deep fear Mr. Hawkins that you no longer understand me, or my situation. You see, your comments got me super excited this morning & then shortly afterwards super pissed.

My needs are a Palm TX2. Why? Because I've put the time in with Palm, I'm a Palm user of over a decade now (Pilot 5000, Jan 1997) I put my time in first waiting for a color Palm. Then, waiting for a high res color screen. Then, waiting for high res plus (virtual grafitti) areas. Each of these technology upgrades made me excited & made me run out to purchase the latest & greatest Palm.

So, I'm looking forward to a TX2. I've got the money ready. I just need a product. I thought I would see it last October. Then, I thought I would see it this February. But, Mr. Hawkins I've seen nothing! But, this product... it must be an extension of the Palm line... Not a continuation of the inferior screened, fatter treo line.

By the way, this past weekend I lost all hope. With all the Nokia is about to buy Palm rumors I gave up this weekend & realized that there will be no TX2. Palm will be purchased yet again, and we will enter a period of years of company insecurity.

Now, Mr. Hawkins gives this ridiculous tease. "Hey Palm fans, wait till you see what I've got for May." Ya? Ya? Thats all your giving me? At first I was blown away by this news. But now... Now I fear that your tremendous release is going to be another freaking low resolution treo but this time with wi-fi. So, Mr. Hawkins put up... or shut up.

Remember... When your swimming in information about upcoming products you can easily forget how frustrating it us for us little people who have waited over 2 years for some hope of a product upgrade.

RE: Is he serious?
mikecane @ 3/5/2007 12:58:05 PM # Q
What specs do you think a TX2 should have?

I still want a Flash-based LifeDrive. With maybe 16-32GB. Yeah, I know that's expen$ive -- right now. They can put out one with 8GB Flash and then let slip on the grapevine that hackers can rip out the Flash card and put in a fatter one.

RE: Is he serious?
freakout @ 3/5/2007 5:48:16 PM # Q
Now, Mr. Hawkins gives this ridiculous tease. "Hey Palm fans, wait till you see what I've got for May." Ya? Ya? Thats all your giving me? At first I was blown away by this news. But now... Now I fear that your tremendous release is going to be another freaking low resolution treo but this time with wi-fi. So, Mr. Hawkins put up... or shut up.

Sheesh, it's only two or three months away. You've already waited 2 years, what's a little bit longer? Patience!

However, I seriously doubt this new product announcement is going to have much to do with the Treo or Palm's PDA line. They wouldn't be calling it a "third business", were that the case. So if you're crossing your fingers for a TX2, you're probably going to be disappointed come May.

That's not to say I think Palm will never release a new PDA; just that this announcement isn't going to be one.

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

RE: Is he serious?
durvivor @ 3/5/2007 6:29:34 PM # Q
Your right, I don't think Mr. Hawkins announcement will be anything Palm TX2 related either.

I posted angry & really mixed things up.

Allow me to separate my emotions & logic.

Emotion: Grrr, I hoped that Palm would release a TX2 in February (a traditional time in the past for Palm to announce/release new products.) Now that February was over I was ready to buy myself a new Palm TX. Now, I'm upset because I have to wait again. Will this mysterious third product be completely different, or will it have basic Palm organization functionality in addition to the new functions?

Logic: Palm can still release the TX2 at anytime. Michael Mace has speculated that since Palm Inc. now owns the naming rights to Palm OS they are close to announcing a linux based successor to Garnet/Palm OS that they have developed in-house. This would be a great time for Palm to announce a new TX2 or other products.

Logic: Meanwhile, based on my reading, and quotes from Mr. Hawkins logic suggests he is developing some sort of internet tablet ala Nokia 770. More reading suggests that this internet tablet will run a rich assortment of web-apps (hosted by Palm). Logic suggests this product will embrace "zen of palm" and be easy to carry (folding screen patents?), easy to access information etc. Business synergy suggests this product will also be able to manage your schedule & contacts. This will be a very interesting product. Though, despite a several year development process I think that May will only bring an announcement & not a product release. (e.g. Announced in May for September sales & then delayed in September.)



RE: Is he serious?
rmhurdman @ 3/6/2007 2:48:36 PM # Q
Jeff is just trying to be like Steve Jobs.

"...Oh and one more thing...

...hello?

...is anybody listening?"

Jeff Hawkins just needs to find someone caring to pay him some attention. I'd say his time is past, but we'll see soon enough.

Reply to this comment

*blink blink*

moofie @ 3/5/2007 12:35:50 PM # Q
Huh?

"Hey says he feels Palm is in its best position ever"

Has he seen the current product line, and the current OS? Did he notice that Palm is selling WINDOWS FRICKIN' MOBILE devices?

He'd BETTER pull a rabbit out of his hat, because the only excuse for being that deluded about the current state of affairs would be if he's been in a bunker for three years with God's own product development team designing an ansible, or a cold fusion powered brain-scanning PDA.

RE: *blink blink*
mikecane @ 3/5/2007 12:56:55 PM # Q
>>>Did he notice that Palm is selling WINDOWS FRICKIN' MOBILE devices?

WTF? Did you read the actual interview?! Of course he knows that, and he gives the reason why too.

RE: *blink blink*
moofie @ 3/5/2007 1:38:42 PM # Q
I DID read the interview, and if he thinks that "Palm selling WinMob" is the same thing as "Palm is healthier than ever!" he's a crazyperson.

RE: *blink blink*
freakout @ 3/5/2007 3:09:29 PM # Q
^^ Well, no, he doesn't think that at all. His "Palm is healthier than ever" quote:

PJA: I think releasing WinMo devices was a smart move, in any case.

JEFF: It probably was; but here’s the thing: we didn’t have control of our own destiny for the past 5 years. We didn’t have our name, we didn’t have our brand, and we own our OS. We were struggling to get into the smartphone space, while we were losing our traditional distribution channels. It was a difficult time. While all this was going on, Palm kept growing; and, is still growing rapidly. Although there are lots of competitors, Palm is a very healthy company. We’ve been profitable for many consecutive quarters, years really; and, we’re making lots of money; and, we finally feel like we have control of our destiny back in our hands again.

Now, it takes a little but of time to turn that into products. It takes 2 years to design new products, and so you don’t see this control reflected immediately in the product line. In my view, this is a good time at Palm. In terms of viability, we have lots of cash, we’re profitable, and we’re in control of our own destiny. We haven’t been in this kind of shape in a long, long time.

Far from saying WinMob is why Palm is healthier than ever, he all but acknowledges that the main reason they got into WinMob in the first place was because they didn't know whether they were going to get back control of PalmOS or not.

Seems the only crazy person is you, moofie! :P

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

RE: *blink blink*
LiveFaith @ 3/5/2007 6:18:33 PM # Q
**Now, it takes a little but of time to turn that into products. It takes 2 years to design new products, and so you don’t see this control reflected immediately in the product line. In my view, this is a good time at Palm. In terms of viability, we have lots of cash, we’re profitable, and we’re in control of our own destiny. We haven’t been in this kind of shape in a long, long time.**

This sounds more like pump and dump investor talk to me. Jeff's probably thinkin' pump this baby over $30 to the foos and I can at least cash out enough to pay for a yacht and years of brainware.

Pat Horne

RE: *blink blink*
twrock @ 3/5/2007 7:00:51 PM # Q
Pat, the cynical side of me was thinking the same thing as I read that. Hope the cynical side of me is wrong.


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/

RE: *blink blink*
moofie @ 3/5/2007 9:41:56 PM # Q
So, now that Palm is limping along finally having de-lobotomized itself, they're poised for a comeback! Whee!

I've been a fan of Palm since, well, forever. I've been gnashing my teeth at every boneheaded mistake they've been making over the last ten years, and I'm frankly stunned they're still in business. I really, really hope that Hawkins has a rabbit to pull out of his hat.

I might be the only person in the world who thinks this way, but I won't ever under any circumstances buy a WinMob device. I simply won't do it. If that's Palm's way forward, well, I guess I'll have to hope that the iPhone has enough third party interest to sustain it.

RE: *blink blink*
mikecane @ 3/6/2007 8:55:05 AM # Q
>>>but I won't ever under any circumstances buy a WinMob device. I simply won't do it.

What, the StyleTap Cultists haven't popped out of the woodwork yet?

I did PPC. Don't give a damn how early my version was. WinMob 6 still sucks.

Stock up, lad. ebay is our friend and now savior!

RE: *blink blink*
rsc1000 @ 3/6/2007 10:40:00 AM # Q
>>I did PPC. Don't give a damn how early my version was. WinMob 6 still sucks.

Amen. It is typical of MS that after Win Mob crested over Palm OS marketshare level, they stopped revising the OS UI paradign in any significant way. Which is a shame because they never got it right. I *hate* the whole thing and how it feels. It's is so claustrophobic and unintuitive. Yes its alive and healthy, but i can't shake the feeling the Win Mob emperor is wearing no clothes. When i hear WinMob fans presuming that it is 'more advanced' i cringe. yes it has multi-tasking - but what is 'more advanced'? It is not just a list of stock features and numbers - it is about the human interface. And MS never gets that right (amazingly enough after decades in the UI...!). Its contrary to their entire culture.

For 6 years I have worked for mobile software development companies and I have access to whatever device i want to use. I only use Win Mob devices when i have to, even though I can have my pick of the latest; i can't stand those things. Now if Palm really can take control of their destiny now that they have the OS back - they might bring the only usable mobile OS into the 21st century.

anyways - don't mean to rant but couldnt help myself. I hope Hawkins isn't yanking us.


Reply to this comment

The best it's ever been?

Tuckermaclain @ 3/5/2007 1:21:43 PM # Q
Palm is in the best shape it's ever been? I'll have to defer to Hawkins on that. He IS the expert. Since it is in such wonderful shape hurry up and give me my clamshell Zire 73 phone I've been waiting for. The one with the 320x480 screen and G1 input.

I can't even fathom a guess at how his new device's capabilities could be exploited. A PDA that thinks like my brain? That's why I have a PDA--because my brain thinks like my brain. Would I be able to design my own preferences and GUI from the screen?

I'm not sure I'll want it but I am curious as heck.

RE: The best it's ever been?
cervezas @ 3/5/2007 1:46:53 PM # Q
Well, no one, least of all Hawkins, is suggesting that Numenta has anything to do with any products on Palm's horizon. The release they announced today was called a "Research Release" and Hawkins indicated in the interview that he thought it would take a while before products would emerge for this platform.

Still, it's hard not to think Hawkins doesn't consider the implications of the two companies for each other in the future.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Reply to this comment

Numenta Releases AI Dev Tools

Ryan @ 3/5/2007 1:47:25 PM # Q
In related Hawkins news, Numenta has released a research version of the tools for building on his new "AI" platform.

http://www.mobilelinuxinfo.com/202/numenta-releases-free-ai-development-tools/

Reply to this comment

Too little too late.

zinzan @ 3/5/2007 2:01:21 PM # Q
It takes two years to develop a new product? Is that why Palms seem to be always outdated on their release?
Unless something drastic is done Palm won't be around in 2 years.

"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate"
RE: Too little too late.
linds @ 3/5/2007 2:55:02 PM # Q
Well, I for one am going to keep hoping. I would say Jeff has pretty much staked his reputation on the fact that we will like what he is going to offer. I mean he did bring us the original palm and the original treo.

RE: Too little too late.
SeldomVisitor @ 3/5/2007 3:44:22 PM # Q
Nokia releases a new phone on average every nine days.

BTW - did you see the links posted on PIC today (Er...TreoCentral?) about the slew of new Nokia smartphones (E-series)? How long ago did Nokia release the last slew?

No, "two years" is not the correct answer.

RE: Too little too late.
SeldomVisitor @ 3/5/2007 3:47:08 PM # Q
> ...he did bring us the original palm and the original treo.

And the LifeDrive.

And Numenta (giggle).

RE: Too little too late.
LiveFaith @ 3/5/2007 6:21:30 PM # Q
Quit being stupid guys. All he's saying is that Cobalt will be ready for distribution in about 2 years! I can wait for that. Woohoo!

Pat Horne
RE: Too little too late.
mikecane @ 3/6/2007 8:56:48 AM # Q
>>>Nokia releases a new phone on average every nine days.

Yeah, and they probably all suck like the 770. I tried their vaunted Communicator at their own NYC store several months ago. Crashed the bugger within 5 minutes. Just like the sh!tty 770!

RE: Too little too late.
rsc1000 @ 3/6/2007 11:01:12 AM # Q
>>Nokia releases a new phone on average every nine days.

Thats great - except Hawkins never said that Palm releases a new device every 2 years. He said it takes 2 years to develop and release a device. If Nokia releases a new phone every 9 months (I actuially believe they release a lot more then 1 every 9 months!), that doesnt tell us how long it took to develop each model now does it? You DO understand the difference right?

RE: Too little too late.
SeldomVisitor @ 3/6/2007 11:41:52 AM # Q
You DO understand the difference between "day" and "month", right?

Giggle.

RE: Too little too late.
rsc1000 @ 3/7/2007 1:41:21 AM # Q
>>You DO understand the difference between "day" and "month", right?

Ouch - my dumb. Giggle deserved.
But the main point stands: there is no DIRECT correlation between frequency of device releases and the time it takes to release them. I.E. Nokia could release a handset every 9 days and it still might take each of these devices 2 years to get through design stage, prototype, FCC approval, and then to consumers.



RE: Too little too late.
SeldomVisitor @ 3/7/2007 7:04:00 AM # Q
True.

RE: Too little too late.
sungod @ 3/7/2007 7:26:52 AM # Q
And don't forget they are generally releasing models like
xyz1... 9 day later... xyz2... 9 days... xyz3...
All 3 models are the same phone hardware just with a different screen, or this one is dust proof, etc.
Development time and costs are cut dramatically when they work like this.

How good are cargo pants, they're a gadget lovers best friend.
RE: Too little too late.
SeldomVisitor @ 3/7/2007 8:04:56 AM # Q
> ...BTW - did you see the links posted on PIC today (Er...TreoCentral?)
> about the slew of new Nokia smartphones (E-series)? How long ago did
> Nokia release the last slew?...

Now ask the same question about PALM TREOs.

It pays to be a Big Guy in many ways.

RE: Too little too late.
SB2 @ 3/7/2007 9:11:05 AM # Q
> Unless something drastic is done Palm won't be around in 2 years.


Well Palm has always been making a profit. And, as Jeff said, they do have a lot of money. I think it won't be a problem for them to hold on for another 2 years.

Reply to this comment

So what's it going to be....

grimpeur @ 3/5/2007 2:37:51 PM # Q
I reckon it's going to be a new Treo with more internal storage ( a la LifeDrive ) but the killer product will be the software.

Palm will introduce a product I'll call LifeManager. This will be quite similar to Nokia's LifeBlog in that it is a record of data sent to and from your phone, only much more. Using Hawkins' AI tools the new Palm device running LifeManager software will sit in the background as you use your device in day to day life. The AI algorithms will pattern match and learn about you from the data you receive and send, the photos you take and your general use of the device. Using this information the device will suggest new information you may be interested in and crucially, record and file you life in a blog type app. Just like LifeBlog, only much much better.

Well... it looks that way to me. In the modern world we are constantly being bombarded with information, unfortunately most of which is chaff. Hawkin's new technologies suggest the ability to effectively mine this data and contextualise it for the user. If that along with Palm's legendary usability isn't a killer app, I don't know what is.

Your comments?



RE: So what's it going to be....
SeldomVisitor @ 3/5/2007 3:46:13 PM # Q
I reckon it's going to be an entire system with relatively-dumb phones served by remote servers.

Reply to this comment

I'm relieved

spice3d @ 3/5/2007 3:56:32 PM # Q
I so hope this means a successor to the T|X. I was having the same feelings I had just prior to the Tungsten release. If I have to wait 2 years, I'll wait, as long as I know it's coming. For me, the T|X is pretty darn close to perfect. For now, I'll be optimistic.

--doug
RE: I'm relieved
stejoh09 @ 3/5/2007 4:23:21 PM # Q
I completely agree!

RE: I'm relieved
just_little_me @ 3/5/2007 5:15:15 PM # Q
I highly doubt it would be anything so mundane as a TX update.

Think outside the box...

I'm guessing some sort of companion for a smartphone. Palm are totally invested into the smartphone market, so something that could broaden that space seems logical...


JLM.

RE: I'm relieved
freakout @ 3/5/2007 5:23:02 PM # Q
I highly doubt it would be anything so mundane as a TX update.

Me too. A TX update wouldn't be shrouded in all this secrecy...

I'm not going to make any guesses as to what it will be, simply 'cause I don't want to embarrass myself. ;)

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

RE: I'm relieved
retrospooty @ 3/5/2007 6:12:54 PM # Q
What part of "not a handheld and not a smartphone" are we missing here?

Regardless of Nokia/Moto takover or not, there will be no new Palm handhelds ever. Get used to it.

RE: I'm relieved
LiveFaith @ 3/6/2007 1:32:00 AM # Q
How about a Treo 700S! That's "S" for Symbian after Palm gets ingested by the cell fone monstrosity. Hawkins new release is the release of his shares at pumped-n-dumped $30+, in exchange for some caaaaaaaash! Gordy Gecko would be proud of him!

Disclaimer: I am an analyst, so you know this is all accurate. Although the suitor may be other than Nokia, substitutes such as Handera or Tapwave, for example. This post contains forward looking statements which should not be construed as factual, nor as investment advice.

Pat Horne

RE: I'm relieved
mikecane @ 3/6/2007 8:58:32 AM # Q
>>>Regardless of Nokia/Moto takover or not, there will be no new Palm handhelds ever. Get used to it.

I'm no longer sure about that. Even Sharp and Casio are still in the organizer game.

If Palm comes out with just *one* model per year that's kick-ass, that would do.

RE: I'm relieved
retrospooty @ 3/6/2007 10:08:32 AM # Q
"If Palm comes out with just *one* model per year that's kick-ass, that would do."

Agreed, it would be cool, but it wont happen.

Reply to this comment

refreshingly positive

pottsme @ 3/5/2007 4:50:07 PM # Q
I recommend reading the whole interview. I get frustrated (& worse pessimistic) about Palm reading most of the comments on this website but I'm not an insider or a computer whiz & the folks lamenting Palm here seem to know what they are talking about. But I know one thing....Hawkins invented what I've come to rely on for the last 9 years. If he's honestly optimistic....there's no reason for me not to be.

Still holding onto my T3 until I get a something along the lines of a thin, antenna-less, treo-like device that will run EVDO & no keyboard but has a stereo headphone jack. Am I even realistic to want this? Can you even have EVDO without an antenna? Is this anybody else dream PDA/smartphone, etc.

RE: refreshingly positive
freakout @ 3/5/2007 5:06:32 PM # Q
^^ It's perfectly realistic to want that. No matter what Palm's Secret Third Business turns out to be, they still need to diversify the Treo line. They're crazy if they don't! And since we know they're not crazy, it's a safe bet we'll see some new Treo designs. When? is the question...

I suspect the STB is not going to be a smartphone or a PDA...



Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

RE: refreshingly positive
icesalmon1 @ 3/6/2007 1:18:41 AM # Q
Those who are consistently negative are posters getting paid by Palm's competitors to spread the pessimistic view of Palm's future. There are too many of them to list here. Just ignore what they said.

RE: refreshingly positive
SeldomVisitor @ 3/6/2007 6:29:06 AM # Q
PALM has no need for paid bashing - they do a good enough job of it themselves.

Reply to this comment

PDAs haven't been influential for the past 20 years

ChiA @ 3/5/2007 5:30:54 PM # Q
I guess I'm risking being flamed here but I was thinking of just what impact this "secret third business" may have on the smartphone and PDA landscape. Then I started thinking of which information technology milestones in the past two decades have had a major influence (and major sales) in our lives:

- colour screens and graphic cards
- games consoles
- Graphical User Interfaces (The first Mac -> Windows 3.11 and 95)
- networking (Ethernet, wi-fi, modems, ISPs, broadband etc)
- affordable laser printers and inkjet printers for the mass market
- digital cameras - still and video
- affordable mobile phones for the mass market
- the internet and world wide web
- online commerce
- recordable/rewritable CDs and DVDs
- affordable laptops for the mass market

These have all had a major impact on how we spend both our working and leisure time.

Sadly the PDA is conspicuously absent from my list simply because it has never had the mass market appeal which all the other products had and do, unless you start calling mobiles/smartphones PDAs but even smartphones haven't had the mass market appeal of the other items in the list. I doubt PDA sales have generated revenue which has come close to any one of those items on the list. A good example? Sony stopped making PDAs but they still make cameras and games consoles, they found the money was to be made in selling those items and not in selling PDAs.

The big question is whether this secret third business will be up in this list ten years from now. Another big question is whether it'll put Palm ahead of other smartphone vendors; quite frankly, Palm is very much behind the pack.

RE: PDAs haven't been influential for the past 20 years
mikecane @ 3/6/2007 9:00:15 AM # Q
>>>from my list

And that's all it is: YOUR list.

Having a PDA has made a HUGE fekkin difference in my life.

Reply to this comment

I speculate like a dolt

BaalthazaaR @ 3/5/2007 5:59:13 PM # Q
I hope it is a Palm OS based device along the lines of the Sony Vaio UX series with better battery life.

Wouldn't mind the following in no particular order:
1) ability to plug in the mobile broadband card of my choice instead of a built in tied to Cingular.
2) Wi-Fi
3) SDIO / SDHC capable
4) Flash hard-drive
5) DO NOT REMOVE FUNCTIONALITY THAT EXISTS IN OLDER PRODUCTS

RE: I speculate like a dolt
LiveFaith @ 3/5/2007 6:23:20 PM # Q
Pleeeease! Here's the real spec list:

Lifedrive II:
6gb proprietary flash drive
TCPMP bundled
A new sync connector
Mini SD
3.027% thinner
25% smaller battery
Comes in 4 colors:
Pink
Camo
HP Sludge Grey
Hello Kitty
BT 2.0 but incompatible with most other devices
Palm OS 5.5 with gigantic 6K clipboard
3 new midi Pilot 1000 alarm tones
Free pleather belt case

$499 for early adopters, drops to $449 in 3 months. It's gonna be another nuclear blast from the boys over at Palm. Don't buy an iPhone just yet.

Pat Horne

RE: I speculate like a dolt
PacManFoo @ 3/5/2007 6:34:41 PM # Q
Hopefully it won't need 3rd party software since most developers have left already.

I want something on the lines of a Nokia N800 with Palm OS backward compatibility. Being able to run either Palm or Linux applications. It would be able to take advantage of Web applications, sync with services like Google Calendar and Plaxo. It would Mount on my Mac or PeeCee as a drive and I could drag and drop MP3's or Vcal files into their repective folders.

Most of all I don't want it to be a freakin' phone! Never had a Treo and never will. If Palm insist on sticking with the Smartphone wave, they will end up going under. I just can't see them keeping up with the Nokia's of the world.

PDA's Past and Present:
Palm - IIIxe, Vx, M500, M505, Tungsten T, TX
Handspring - Edge, Platinum, Deluxe
Sony - SJ22
Apple - MP2000, MP2100

RE: I speculate like a dolt
hkklife @ 3/5/2007 7:07:32 PM # Q
I am still thinking--if there's ANYTHING concrete at all to this STB "chatter" (other than just pump & dump propaganda) it's going to be something tablet-sized (larger than a LifeDrive, smaller than a UMPC, about on par with a Nokia N800) with BT 2.0, Wi-Fi and EVDO and, possibly, no voice functionality (or at least voice only via BT headset). Integrated camera is a possibility but not the device's main focus. Maybe something Zodiac-sized but with a slightly larger screen?

Think of what would happen if a LifeDrive, an N800, and a Tungsten W merged into a single device.

I expect it to run a heavily modified version of WinMob 6 (with M$' assistance, naturally) and native "tweaked" StyleTap for Palm OS emulation. Palm/Hawkins will make a heavy push for multimedia on this thing (maybe bundle a MobiTV trial or something like that with it). A2DP and a 3.5mm stereo headphone jack will finally make an appearance!

There will be a strong push for server-side apps/services etc. The device itself will be relatively dumb, aside from the now-trendy 8gb of internal flash (still a feeble amount of memory) and a miniSD slot.

Along the same time we'll finally see the release of the underwhelming 700p ROM update along with two new Treos from Palm. They will be the 755p and the 755w, for CDMA networks only. They will basically be the Treo 750 formfactor but with the innards of the 700wx and a "fixed" version of the 700p. Both will have 320x320 LCDs.

I'd expect maybe two of the following features present: 2mp camera, 1.3mp camera w/ flash, 1gb of onboard flash, miniSDHC compatibility, higher-capacity slimline battery, 416mhz CPU. The 755w will have A2DP and/or another small feature or two to separate it from the "midrange" Palm OS version and to justify the $50 price difference between the two at retail. The FrankenGarnet version will be the most stable POS Treo yet and it'll inch forward with more of the same GUI improvements & tweaks introduced with the 700p and 680. It'll also probably be the final POS Treo unless Palm decides to do a low-end POS for both GSM & CDMA in the fall or early next year.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: I speculate like a dolt
heavyduty @ 3/5/2007 7:18:54 PM # Q
3 new midi Pilot 1000 alarm tones

LOL!!!

Palm Vx (a classic) -> Palm 505 (*yawn*) -> Dell Axim (slooow...) -> Palm TE (great) -> Qtek 9090 (great idea, lousy platform) -> Nokia 6630 (a toy) -> iMate SP3i (not bad) -> Nokia 9300 (can't sync notes!!) -> Treo 650 (awesome) -> hw6915 (almost perfect)

RE: I speculate like a dolt
SeldomVisitor @ 3/5/2007 7:25:10 PM # Q
That wouldn't work nor sell.

What COULD work would be as I've postulated all along - an entire system with a range of dumbed-down phones OR DEVICES that get served from remote servers.

Awhile back - somewhere - I posted something along the line of:

== Something like a stereo component system is needed. Mix and match.

I continue to think that's the way to go and I would bet that's the way THIS is going.

Maybe.

RE: I speculate like a dolt
PacManFoo @ 3/5/2007 7:28:49 PM # Q
So without a internet connection you would have an empty box?

Hope it's cheap.

PDA's Past and Present:
Palm - IIIxe, Vx, M500, M505, Tungsten T, TX
Handspring - Edge, Platinum, Deluxe
Sony - SJ22
Apple - MP2000, MP2100

RE: I speculate like a dolt
SeldomVisitor @ 3/5/2007 7:29:20 PM # Q
AH...this might be the post I was vaguely remembering:

== "...Anyway - it looks to THIS reader like PalmOne is for SURE
== heading to what I mentioned with their redefinition of "converged
== device" to allow multiple communicating devices (!!!). As such,
== perhaps that "device" mentioned up there will be Coming Soon!
== (albeit maybe not so converged that it's piggybacked...)

-- http://discussion.treocentral.com/showpost.php?p=338530&postcount=9

From the thread I started about my lack of being impressed by TREOs:

-- http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=33796

The original post, of course, was made WAY before there was any hint of a Next Great Thang.

Giggle.

RE: I speculate like a dolt
SeldomVisitor @ 3/5/2007 7:33:19 PM # Q
> So without a internet connection you would have an empty box?

I suppose if you take the thought to the absolute limit.

Is there an absolute need to take the thought to the absolute limit, though?

RE: I speculate like a dolt
PacManFoo @ 3/5/2007 7:38:19 PM # Q
Absolutely not I guess.

PDA's Past and Present:
Palm - IIIxe, Vx, M500, M505, Tungsten T, TX
Handspring - Edge, Platinum, Deluxe
Sony - SJ22
Apple - MP2000, MP2100
RE: I speculate like a dolt
mikecane @ 3/6/2007 9:01:42 AM # Q
>>>larger than a LifeDrive, smaller than a UMPC, about on par with a Nokia N800

Go look at the Sony Reader. That is the PERFECT tablet size. It's what UMPCs and such devices need to be. 770/800 screens are just too damned small, despite their high res.

RE: I speculate like a dolt
mikecane @ 3/6/2007 11:34:58 AM # Q
Take a looksee at this:

http://www.engadget.com/gallery/archos-704-wifi/173727/

Now THAT seems to be more like it.

I can't wait to fondle this. Not that I would buy it (aiiiieeee, Linux!!!).

Reply to this comment

Think outside the the box!

sungod @ 3/5/2007 5:32:41 PM # Q
Are all of you forgetting what Hawkins has said over the past year.
Palm has 3 businesses.
The PDA business.
The Smartphone business.
And a Third business.
It's not a new PDA or a Smartphone its something else, working on the idea that we “all have a broadband modem in our pocket”.
If it is hardware based I'll put my bets on a tablet of some kind but I doubt it UMPC just aren't a high enough growth aria and they would cannibalize even more of Palms already shrinking market.
If its software based we will probably be looking at a mix of web hosting and mobile portal of some kind.
Hawkins said “we are a mobile computing business” first and foremost.


Don't you just love cargo pants, they're a gadget lovers best friend.

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Numenta announcement

palmsource @ 3/5/2007 7:32:00 PM # Q
I just got an email from Numenta (Donna Dubinsky) with some interesting links:

"I am pleased to announce the availability today of the Research Release of the Numenta Platform for Intelligent Computing (NuPIC). In addition, today also marks the debut of our new web site that includes many features focused on building a developer community.
I'm sure you're wondering, what does this mean, Research Release?
Perhaps you're also wondering, what does this mean, the Numenta Platform for Intelligent Computing??

The Numenta Platform for Intelligent Computing is a set of tools and a runtime engine, including embedded learning algorithms, that enables self-training and pattern recognition based on the theories of hierarchical temporal memory (HTM). I recommend that you spend some time at our web site to read the white papers and see the presentations that explain this platform and this technology in depth.


The Research Release is a no-charge version of the Numenta Platform for experimentation purposes. I invite you to read the note from Jeff Hawkins ( http://www.numenta.com/for-developers/software/note-from-jeff.php ) on our web site that describes what we are trying to accomplish in this release, and who should consider downloading it. I also recommend reading my entry in the Numenta blog ( http://www.numenta.com/for-developers/blog.php ) to explain the license structure. Finally, once you've downloaded the release, be sure to check out our web tools for developers, including a forum, wiki's and a blog written by members of the Numenta team.

We welcome your participation in this community, but we must warn you up front; the tools are new, the platform is young, and the concepts are sometimes difficult. To make real progress, you can expect to dedicate significant time to learning the material, and then applying it to your problem domain. We hope that you will be an active participant, sharing your work, reporting bugs, and contributing to our forums.

There may be great effort required, but we believe that the pay-off will be great as well. We feel confident in saying that HTM technology will provide the foundation for the next generation of computing, intelligent computing. We are pleased that our first generation platform, NuPIC, affords you the opportunity to begin to experiment with the platform, ultimately offering you the opportunity to create powerful, new computing applications.

We look forward to hearing your feedback, your issues, and your successes, as you being to work with NuPIC.

Regards,

Donna Dubinsky
CEO, Numenta"

RE: Numenta announcement
hkklife @ 3/5/2007 7:48:29 PM # Q
I wonder if they will hire Gary Numan to play a gig for their launch!?!
I know he'd come cheaper than the Rolling Stones did for M$!
;-)



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Numenta announcement
cervezas @ 3/5/2007 8:55:46 PM # Q
I wonder what happens when you put Numentas into a bottle of New Coke? ;-)


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Numenta announcement
cervezas @ 3/5/2007 9:04:44 PM # Q
Sigh... most of the folks on this forum probably don't even know what New Coke is. We used to drink it while watching VHS tapes of The Breakfast Club that we rented from Erol's or while listening to cassettes of REO Speedwagon and Duran Duran.


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Numenta announcement
twrock @ 3/5/2007 9:15:57 PM # Q
You end up with a nu-clear bottle.


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/

RE: Numenta announcement
twrock @ 3/5/2007 9:31:21 PM # Q
Ok, now you are scaring me, David. :-)
"New" Coke; what were they thinking?!!
I bought the Breakfast club on DVD for my daughter. She had pretty much worn out the VHS recording I had made from a TV broadcast 20 years ago. It is now probably her all-time, most-watched movie.
Be afraid, be very afraid.


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/

RE: Numenta announcement
PacManFoo @ 3/5/2007 9:37:12 PM # Q
"Sigh... most of the folks on this forum probably don't even know what New Coke is. We used to drink it while watching VHS tapes of The Breakfast Club that we rented from Erol's or while listening to cassettes of REO Speedwagon and Duran Duran."

For me it was while playing ColecoVision and watching Friday Night Videos. By the way, the first cassette I ever bought was Reo's Hi Infidelity. Ah yes, that transition from 8-track.

PDA's Past and Present:
Palm - IIIxe, Vx, M500, M505, Tungsten T, TX
Handspring - Edge, Platinum, Deluxe
Sony - SJ22
Apple - MP2000, MP2100

RE: Numenta announcement
LiveFaith @ 3/6/2007 1:42:17 AM # Q
The End is Near. Lokks like their trying to "NuPIC my brain"!

Pat Horne
RE: Numenta announcement
SeldomVisitor @ 3/6/2007 6:26:43 AM # Q
You guys don't seem to be taking Numenta very seriously.

RE: Numenta announcement
mikecane @ 3/6/2007 9:04:03 AM # Q
Numenta is gonna rock the world. Steve Jobs better get a whiff of it soon. I take it *very* seriously and have from the start. The entire idea of the brain as a prediction machine is incredible.

RE: Numenta announcement
SeldomVisitor @ 3/6/2007 9:27:54 AM # Q
Maybe YOU should subscribe to those IEEE publications noted above.

RE: Numenta announcement
cervezas @ 3/6/2007 10:37:23 AM # Q
I for one take it very seriously. Seriously enough to download the SDK and set aside some (pretty expensive) time to work with it. I know others who have already done the same (Palm developers, interestingly). I'm not an AI expert by any means, thought I studied neural nets, genetic algorithms and agoric systems back in my Ph.D program days. Hawkins is not ignorant of the work in these fields and I don't think he's doing this just for the fun feeling of being proven the fool. I don't know where this will go, but the up-side potential and sheer curiosity make it difficult for me to ignore.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: Numenta announcement
twrock @ 3/6/2007 12:04:48 PM # Q
You guys don't seem to be taking Numenta very seriously.

I think it's more like a couple of old farts with a strange sense of humor doing a little reminiscing. It isn't really about Numenta at all.

But, however cool, revolutionary, and serious Numenta may be, I don't think it will be running my next handheld device. Not unless Hawkins has a lot more magic up his sleeve than I had previously thought.


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/

RE: Numenta announcement
mikecane @ 3/8/2007 10:06:36 AM # Q
>>>genetic algorithms

Tish, you spoke French!

Reply to this comment

Are you Sarah Connor?

Nycran @ 3/6/2007 12:06:16 AM # Q
Ok, from the small about of info made available about Skynet aka Numenta I've gathered the following keywords:

* Hierarchical Temporal Memory
* machine learning
* learning through observation
* embedded learning algorithms
* artificial intelligence
* pattern recognition
* widespread mobile broadband
* new computing methodology

I'm therefore guessing that:

* Numenta's platform will not be limited to PDA's or phones.

* Robotics is a likely target platform for this kind of technology.

* Web / Internet servers are also another likely platform.

We're talking about machines that can do some of the things we do. And by this i mean machines that can truly *understand* data and react to the physical world.

Fundamentally cool stuff... and extremely difficult. Let's hope it works.

RE: Are you Sarah Connor?
twrock @ 3/6/2007 12:32:07 AM # Q
Let's hope it works.

Not if you are Sarah Connor!


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/

RE: Are you Sarah Connor?
mikecane @ 3/6/2007 9:06:16 AM # Q
>>>* Numenta's platform will not be limited to PDA's or phones.

Whoever said or thought it would be? That baby is gonna need some CPU horsepower! The only way I see it on pocketable devices is as a client. A server would do the "thinking" and send the results.

Reply to this comment

Waiting till May

BaalthazaaR @ 3/6/2007 11:25:55 AM # Q
I keep putting off purchasing a new POS device. Can't get myself to go in for WinDOHs More_Bile. Now I gotta wait till May to even hear how much longer I should consider waiting. Oh well... Anyway I've been keeping an eye on the Slingplayer for POS as well. The way the beta is going, I suspect that that will also become a public beta in May. Keeping an eye on both of these is making me cock-eyed.
RE: Waiting till May
mikecane @ 3/8/2007 10:07:59 AM # Q
I don't understand the fekkin appeal of a Slingplayer. Don't you guys have TiVOs or even VCRs? Hell, P2P will cover your back too in a pinch.

Reply to this comment

I Hope...

MyLifedrive @ 3/19/2007 8:28:48 PM # Q
I sure hope it isn't another treo... I'm getting tired of them.
when will palm put out a new handheld?
Reply to this comment

If THAT is The Next Great Thing...

SeldomVisitor @ 4/1/2007 11:59:25 AM # Q
-- http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=12928

then I think "Sell!" is an appropriate sentiment for PALM-the-stock.


RE: If THAT is The Next Great Thing...
Ryan @ 4/1/2007 12:18:41 PM # Q
Check your calendar today?
RE: If THAT is The Next Great Thing...
SeldomVisitor @ 4/1/2007 1:48:19 PM # Q
Strange, I don't remember seeing a disclaimer at the time I posted the original of this thread (unlike the TreoCentral joke that had the disclaimer right from the start).

Ah well, joke's on me! (and a cast of thousands based off of commentary I've read elsewhere).

RE: If THAT is The Next Great Thing...
SeldomVisitor @ 4/2/2007 7:28:08 AM # Q
Interestingly, TreoCentral has changed their headline to "April Fools", suggesting their Boss pressured them to do so rather than being "subtle" about the joke.

Sometimes those hard commercial affiliations come back to haunt editorial policy, eh?

Perhaps when talking about TreoCentral that "sometimes" should be "usually", huh?

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