Comments on: Palm Announces the Treo 755p

I highlight parts of the preview here to pull out how little this device means on my blog..

http://comments.deasil.com/2007/05/09/palm-releases-755p-no-one-cares/

-- http://tinyurl.com/2tupcq

and replaced by this one.

[I use 20001 zipcode for these pages]

They've screwed the pooch on the Treo so many times in so many ways I think I'll open a site for dedicated Palm users called "treo_sadomasochism.com."

The battery cavity of the 755p is a little larger, mostly due to the freed up space from not having a sim card tray and the smaller miniSD slot.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

umm.... size and space concerns are likely the reason, rather than blatant disregard for customers.

The 700p has copped a lot of flak for poor voice quality. (waves at hkk ;) ) Is the 755p any better in this regard?

Hey, what can I say? I've been going on damm near a decade of tri-mode Motorola CDMA handsets on Bell Atlantic/Verizon. I'm USED to good RF, great coverage and at least passable sound quality. The 700p was a lame duck in all of those categories.

"Large and in charge"? More like "The 755p. It's like a caboose. It's large, available in red, and it brings up the rear"

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

This is another boring and disapointing Palm device.

E.g. The TX has wifi, but slows the processor and lacks vibrating alarm, voicememo, and LED vs. the T|T3. The T5 had that useless USB-storage mode, but the same disadvantages as the TX. The Lifedrive had some potential, but was bulkier and slow. The Treo 755p lacks the antenna and has some vaguely interesting software, but lowers battery life and changes the memory card.

The 700p was underwhelming: It did address the severe memory issue of the 650, but was only minor incremental improvement hardware-wise and others seem to find fault with the sofware, I don't have one, so I don't know).

It seems like Palm is always releasing last year's model. Even the T|T3, was what the original T|T SHOULD have been....

-alanh
(PPP->III->Vx->m505->T|T->T3->TX)

-alan

Why not express the same sentiment about the 700wx - a perfectly analogous recent release out of PALM - release a minorly-fixed device, discontinue the prior broken device.

Seems like a reasonable thing for a company to do.

Plus the 755p got rid of the antenna, something Marketing has been saying to do for quite some time.

===========

Anyone check out the FCC yet to compare the guts of the 700p and 755p? I'm still curious to see if the 700w and 700wx are in reality based off different hardware or are simply software-different.

-- http://www.forbes.com/video/?video=fvn/tech/df_de_download050907_ms&partner=yahootix

They're for SURE taking this device the absolute wrong way, IMHO.

Yes, the blame for that CAN be placed right at PALM's foot (?). PALM had better put out THIS particular fire SOON or those geeks that the CEO foolishly said "are theirs forever" won't be.

I guess there are plenty of other IM clients out there that don't charge per message...

-James.

AOL, MSN, Yahoo, ICQ, Gtalk, Jabber

$11 lifetime license, only your normal data traffic charges apply

Disclosure: I work for the company that produces Mundu IM

Atul Chitnis
http://atulchitnis.net

Because normally a IM consersation will contain lots of instant messages within a short period of time. A few minutes conversation may have involve 20 messages already! One certainly wouldn't want to pay US$3 for that, otherwise it's more expensive than an international call.

Don't tell me a "hi!" message will cost 15 cents. :)

For IM on Palm, try Chatopus, http://www.chatopus.com

--
With great power comes great responsiblity.

No wonder Palm couldn't even fix the 700p's problems within a year... they had their crack design team of 3 monkeys and a unicorn working overtime on making battery life shorter and all of our SD cards useless. So sad.

3G Data is a massive upgrade, and the extra memory is extremely useful. Try it. I didn't realise how much of a pleasure it would be going from my 650 to the 680. No memory worries, Blazer loads any size image I've tried, I'm not going to crash the unit by taking one too many camera pictures.

If I need to go a whole weekend without charging, I use my Seidio 2400mAh battery.

With 3G data, I see very little need for WiFi at all.

This really is evolving into the perfect platform. Beautiful apps like Googlemaps reall help, Chatter, and Pockettunes is not bad. I wish they could get some of the usability niggles in the phone / contacts apps worked out.

-James.

When Handera was producing an SD/CF combo device, Palm chose the SD format - it was beginning to take root and an ideal size for both easy handling and PDA-sized slots. They are about as big as a thumb, hard to lose, and big enough to have room to grow.

Now, Palm does this dumb move to MiniSD. Here's what we lost:

1) All SDIO cards are useless in the 755
2) The cards are more fragile and unreasonably small and unwieldy
3) MiniSD is more expensive, smaller capacity, fewer choices, and difficult to find.
4) The way Palm implemented the slot, it's nearly impossible to get in and out without poking a key or other dangerous implement in to beat the springloading.

Exactly how is any of this worth switching horses midstream? If Palm had just perfected the SDIO slot, we'd be rid of the antenna and could finally use a wider variety of accessories, easily swap cards, and save a bumload of cash by not tossing out perfectly good SD cards.

Mike
700p

On more than a few occasions I've popped the 4gb SD 1.1 card (or my Sandisk Ultra II + card) out of my Treo and inserted it into my laptop/desktop/someone else's PC and jammed to a few tunes or pulled off some jpegs of the family. Imagine going to grandma's house with 755p, remembering to bring along a fullsize SD adapter, and going to show them some photos only to find out their stuff won't play nicely with miniSD/miniSDHC.

Heck, my Ultra II Plus card helps me circumvent the craptastic performance of Palm Desktop Hotsync in Vista...I just remove the card, stick it in my PC's usb slot, drag'n drop my PRC files on over, and reinsert the card. Bingo! Instant poor man's Hotsync!

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

Phones are getting smaller, and it gets harder to fit everything into the phone package while still providing a full SD slot. With the 755p, we were able to give you a format that you could continue to use with other SD-devices using an adapter and make more room to allow for a larger battery than the 680 and 750 devices.

As for why not use microSD? The main issue is form factor -- the cards are VERY small and really hard to implement in a durable slot interface. It can work well for swappable internal storage and applications where it's located under a battery like a SIM card, but it didn't seem appropriate for an easily swappable card interface.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

I should have clarified that my issues experienced with using mini/microSD cards in fullsize adapters were with older PCs/laptops/card readers...think a Dazzle SD USB reader from 2002 or something similar.

I used to carry one of the early small SD/MMC readers in my laptop bag and it had numerous issues with cards larger than 512mb and/or the smaller format cards when used with a fullsize adapter. I had to RMA several flash cards before I finally realized it was a combination of the reader & people other than myself using it on Win2k-based machines and trying to hot-remove the drive from the PC's front USB ports without properly stopping it for safe removal.

If given the preference, I'd have preferred either an antenna-less version of the slighly larger 700p/w formfactor with fullsize SD OR the Treo 680's compromised battery life in exchange for a fullsize SD & SDHC cards.

Sorry Ben, but there have been many occasions out in the field when I've taken a picture (usually VGA or 1/2mb) with my "real" digital camera, popped the SD card into my 700p, and e-mailed it to someone with VersaMail with no PC anywhere around. That's impossible to do on the 755p unless I spend more money buying miniSD cards & adapters for my digital camera and that's just not going to happen.

I am in the process of investing heavily in SDHC (new card readers for all of my desktops & a new photo printer) as I prefer to keep a single massive card in my camera while traveling. SDHC is the ideal size/speed/capacity for my needs and it's a shame to see Palm sidestepping support for it instead of embracing it.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

Palm obviously recognizes that some (IMO, most) people prefer standard SD cards, else the 680 would have had miniSD just like the 750. Was the battery that much of an issue, or is Palm planning to standardise on miniSD in future devices?

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

#1. Cost/stinginess/cheapness etc.
It's easier to shrink the size of the card than to try harder to engineer the 755's innards around a fullsize SD slot. It CAN, COULD, and SHOULD have been done. If I want longer battery life on my 700p, I CAN add a "rumpshaker" 3200mAh battery and deal with the extra size. The thickness of the 700/650/600 Treos was never an issue to me...the nasty protruding antenna and the small square screen and no stereo headphone jack are the dealbreakers for me. If we knew that shaving off a fraction of the Treo's girth (600/650/700 vs. 680/750/755) would bring about reduced battery life and miniSD, I think the majority of the Treo users wouldn't have complained so loudly over the past two years! Instead of offering Xboxes & cash to WinMob developers, Palm should offer Xboxes & cash to electrical engineers & industrial designers to come up new Treo formfactors that offer higher capacity batteries, larger screens and fullsize expansion media!

#2. Kickbacks/payoffs/greed etc.
As Joad pointed out yesterday, it's entirely possible the miniSD cabal (Sandisk etc) rewarded Palm generously to move to miniSD. They know the Palm faithful will rush out to replace the SD cards with like-sized (perhaps even smaller!) miniSD cards. Notice how the new Palm-branded miniSD cards even tout their compatibility with older Palm devices when using a fullsize adapter? Funny how Palm doesn't bother addressing the other side of that equation.

#3. Technical considerations/laziness/additional cost factors etc.
IMO this is the big one, regardless of how Palm spins it. Palm doesn't want to have to "deal" with users complaining & fussing about their Garnet-based devices not recognizing 8gb SDHC cards as a single large volume. Trying to patch/hack Garnet one last time to support 8gb volumes simply isn't worth it in Palm's eyes & to their beancounters.

With 4 & 8gb SDHC cards rapidly becoming the norm (and, as Tim points out, people's media collections swelling daily) Palm's awkward positioning in regards to 8gb SDHC cards would only become more & more of an issue going forward. 16gb SDHC cards, while very pricey, are now trickling into the market and should be reasonably affordable by Christmastime. So you can see how the 32gb cap of SDHC looks quite imposing to FrankenGarnet's 4gb volume cap.

By retreating to the relative safety of miniSD (where a quick check of Newegg.com shows exactly ONE 4gb miniSD card-all the others are 2gb or smaller), Palm can stay in the sub-4gb side of the playground and coast along for another year until Garnet is EOL'd.

The iPhone, REGARDLESS of its various shortcomings & high pricetag, is going to do one thing: make people very conscious about how many gigs of storage space their smartphone is packing. Palm GAVE away a perfect opportunity to jazz up the tired old Treo design ever so slightly with a 3.5mm stereo headphone jack & 8gb+ SDHC compatibility. Had they done that they could've stolen customers away from the iPhone that might prefer a physical button keyboard, infinitely expandable applications, *REAL* EVDO 3G (and CDMA coverage) alongside a much cheaper pricetag!
Instead, Palm just threw in the towel and performed Seppuku to Palm OS-based Treos for the forseeable future.

Again, I am NOT hating on Palm...I am a 10 year (this month, in fact) fan of the platform & the OS. But I cannot stand to see this feeble defeatist product strategy time after time in light of increasingly brutal competition in the market!

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

http://www.engadget.com/2007/05/07/microdia-launches-16gb-sdhc-card-your-pocketbook-weeps-for-sham/

Wonder if it'd work in a Treo?

I highly doubt it'd worth in a Treo. At best, the first 4gb would be seen and then it'd probably get all wacky & wonky. But who needs 16gb of SDHC goodness when you can have 4gb of monumental miniSD power, huh??

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

I've been using an 8GB card for MP3's on my 680 for the past 6 months. I think the 680 must support SDHC...

-James.

USR Pilot 5000, Palm Pilot Pro, Palm V, Clie 610C, Clie TG50, Clie UX50, Treo 650, Treo 680

-James.

USR Pilot 5000, Palm Pilot Pro, Palm V, Clie 610C, Clie TG50, Clie UX50, Treo 650, Treo 680

What a *DISGUSTING* release, especially after Palm has had over 3 years since acquiring the Treo line from Handspring.

Palm's "innovations":

* Hi-resolution screen (HS would have included if had $$$)
* Internalized antenna (HS would have included if had $$$)
* Removeable battery (HS would have included if had $$$)
* Bluetooth (HS would have included if had $$$)
* More "RAM" (HS would have included if had $$$)
* Mini-SD card (Palm likely was paid-off by the Mini-SD cabal so that we have to repurchase yet again the more expensive format)

In other words - the only thing Palm seems to have "contributed" to the Treo line was the CASH that Handspring didn't have. CASH obviously doesn't indicate any level of creativity, the Treo line is a dying horse.

We're right around 4 years since the 600 was announced, and Palm has let Blackberry and WinceMobile eat their lunch. And this Treo 755p is the whimper that probably signals the death knell for Palm. Sad, sad, sad.

OK- Where do we go now?

Palm is one "Christie Brinkley" pink Treo away from the #1 cell phone manufacturing position.

ROFLMAO. The iPhone is horribly expensive (especially for a 2G device), is not open to third-party developers, and doesn't even have buttons! This "er ah dedicated" Treo user ain't interested, and I can't imagine that my sentiment is that radically different from the average Treo owner's. Give me a QWERTY board for messaging, my choice of applications and cut the price in half. Then we'll talk...

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

They like to do surprising things.

GASP! Brinkley?!!? It was supposed to have been Anna Nicole Smith! Damn that she died. She's taking Palm with her now!

The Treo 755 is the latest, even more lame and pathetic attempt by Palm to line its pockets and provides absolutely nothing of real value into a major release. Given that Microsoft is working on its new phones and that some very impressive new models are coming over the course of 2007, it goes without saying that Palm will see sales of its new models drop considerably from what are probably going to be a mediocre opening very quickly. What we've been provided under the cover of night with regard to the future make the 755 even duller than a yawn. Been there done that YEARS ago.

Yes, Ed and Palm and co. rested on their laurels, collected huge bonuses while claiming that they have pushed Palm to new heights. It's sad that they milked these models for as much bonus money as they could pocket at the expense of the company's long term future. I really miss the days when executives really took pride in their products and wanted to build the better machines where it was a win-win all the way around. It's been many years but I'm looking forward to PPC with high resolution and a device made by another manufacturer...

Oh yes, one other question - did Palm change to a standard headphone jack? That would have been nice as well.

The 755p should have contained the following minor tweaks, all fully within the capabilities of Palm's R&D budget & Garnet's technical limitations:

-Stereo 3.5mm headphone jack
-Internal 1gb or 2gb flash storage
-Fullsize SDHC slot (or just fullsize SD w/ "unofficial" SDHC support like Treo 680)
-DTG version 10 & Vista-compliant Palm Desktop in the box
-Palm voice dialing app full version in ROM
-Improved 1.3mp camrea and/or 2mp camera w/ flash

With the relatively minor above changes, Palm could have made the 755p a real contender and a semi-worthy iPhone competitor with 1/2 the pricetag.

As it is in its current state, however, it's filled up with last year's tired old applications (DTG 8, Blazer 4.5, VM 3.5), several technology downgrades (smaller battery capacity than 700p and a lame miniSD slot), and enough "try me" bonus software that it's practically masquerading as a pocket sized vending machine for Sprint pay-as-you-go data services. The only hope for the 755p is a quick $50 to $100 price drop to pull in the n00bs.

What a sad, feeble horse for Garnet & the classic Palm OS to stagger off on...

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

...well stated.

Verizon is expected to carry this device, but they have not many any official announcements. All Palm is saying is that Sprint is the first carrier to pick this up and they do not have an exclusive on it.

But why?! Clearly, they're the best choice for consumers: higher capacity and lower prices. If I'm looking for a new device in two years I'll be looking for one with standard SD. I have zero interest in buying new cards, and I'm sure the same must apply to almost any owner of a standard-SD device. I use my Treo as my media player - I for one wouldn't have "upgraded" from the 650 if I had to switch to mini-SD. What would be the point? It's a step back, rather than a step forward.

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

How many Mini-SD SDIO devices exist? How many 4GB Mini-SD cards (and larger) are on the market right now and for the next few months?

When Palm went with SD instead of CF (or CF *and* SD like Handera offered) we all groaned, but endured because they claimed they needed it "for space considerations". Now, I haven't torn apart Treo models with the SD and Mini-sd cards to compare how much space they are saving, but for the amount of trouble and expense and incompatibility they are creating for people (even NEW users will often use a camera that uses SD and want to upload a pic or two), this is a dumb-dumb move.

Why oh why does Palm work so hard to break the few things that have been working for their devices? I'm really bummed that I'll have to live with this buggy 700p until at least the NEXT release from these goofballs. (and I'm "SURE" we'll be seeing the firmware patch by 1Q 2007, oh I mean 5/31/07...).

Why is this any different at all and why is this at ALL controversial OR unexpected?

Serious question - looks like standard stuff to me.

Take a Zire 31 and shrink it down to Z22 size. Then remove the Graffiti area to further reduce it in size. Give it a Treo-style small but sharp 320x320 screen and virtual Graffiti. If costs/battery life is an issue then go with the best possible DSTN 160x160 screen or, if possible, a DSTN 320x320 screen (there's an nifty possibility!).

Then throw in 2gb or so of internal flash storage (like the T|T5) and a REAL headphone jack. Load it up with a couple of games and a FULL version of PTunes and a cheap but halfway decent set of earbuds (think cheap Sennheisers).

Push the he11 out of this thing to the teen/young hipster market who cannot afford a Treo/BB/Hiptop/Sidekick. With the lame flash-based mp3 players still inexplicably selling for over $100, one of those would look pretty nifty in comparison, especially with a 4 or 8gb SDHC card onboard.

Going up a notch on the evolutionary ladder, I always thought Palm was insane for not producing a Treo 90-type followup device. That is, a Treo that's not a phone. Take a basic Treo 680 formfactor, remove the cellular radio & removable battery, and add in BT & Wi-fi (from the TX) along with a stereo headphone jack. You could have text messaging-crazy kids pecking away at it while jamming to mp3 tunes at their favorite hotspot coffee shop.

Of course, it's too late for anything as clever as that to come out of Palm. But such a device would have been ideal back in '04 or '05 or so.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

Low margin cheap non-cellular non-carrier-subsidized devices are a waste of time and bad for business.

There's no reason to buy/manage/charge/carry/sync/fight/fumble with 2+ devices when ONE Smartphone can do it all.