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Comments on: Palm Launches the Treo 500v

Treo 500vPalm Europe today announced the Treo 500v smartphone. The Treo 500v will be available to European Vodafone customers in October. The Palm Treo 500 runs on the Windows Mobile 6 standard platform, includes a High Speed 3G/UMTS Internet Access and will be available in two colors: glacier white and charcoal grey.

It will initially be available to Vodafone customers in Germany, Ireland, Italy, Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, the UK and Vodacom customers in South Africa.

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Treo 500v brings Palm up to date

ChiA @ 9/12/2007 8:02:00 AM # Q
It's just a shame it's not a Palm OS. I'm happy as it is quite an advance for Palm, it finally has a product on the same level as its competition. Skimming throught the specs:

It uses Windows Mobile 6 Standard Edition and therefore it's the first Treo without a touchscreen.

- impressive 256Mb of which 150 MB is available to the user.

- it's a 3G phone but no hint of whether it's HSDPA capable.

- Bluetooth 2.0 - it can use stereo headsets.

- 2 Megapixel camera: Hallelujah!!!

- microSD slot - I can hear your groans now but it seems most phone manufacturers are going for these tiny cards now.

- A 1200 mAh battery which Palm says gives 4.5 hours talking or 10 days of standby.

- a headphone jack next to a miniUSB socket. I suspect it's 2.5mm.

- no wifi

The Treo 500v is a most welcome step forward by Palm and has a reasonably good specification that should see it sell well.

RE: Treo 500v brings Palm up to date
SeldomVisitor @ 9/12/2007 9:35:13 AM # Q
Perhaps this is the first of the essentially-totally-outsourced Windows devices:

-- http://discussion.treocentral.com/showpost.php?p=1344781&postcount=5

RE: Treo 500v brings Palm up to date
hkklife @ 9/12/2007 10:17:27 AM # Q
I'm almost certain it's one of thos outsourced devices, SV.

NO "traditional" Palm touches: no ringer mute switch up top, no "smile" keyboard, no Athena Multiconnector. And Palm has always had a charger port and a sync port even on their cheapest Zire devices with mini-USB connectors.

If this thing is devoid of even the slightest bit of the Palm "special sauce" then I expect it to meet a swift demise in Europe and likely not even be offered for sale in the US.

For the handful of VERY welcome improvements Palm brings to the table in this device (larger screen, 256MB RAM, BT 2.0, 2.0megapixel camera) it also lacks any of the usual touches Treo owners have come to expect from Palm.

I have a feeling the keyboard probably suffers from splotchy, uneven backlighting too!

And even though it's a GSM handset, 1200mAh is STILL too small for a stock battery in this day and age.

I'll not even get into the lack of a 3.5mm stereo headphone jack.

Now, the Centro, for all of its ridiculously small size and ugly color scheme, at least has the potential to be more "Palm-ish" than this thing. A touchscreen, for one. 320x320 as another (though it may be so damm small that it's nearly unusable)And the Centro will almost certainly have to have a higher capacity battery than 1200mAh, seeing that it's a CDMA device.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Treo 500v brings Palm up to date
ChiA @ 9/12/2007 11:08:57 AM # Q
If this thing is devoid of even the slightest bit of the Palm "special sauce" then I expect it to meet a swift demise in Europe

I totally disagree. The fact current treos haven't done well in Europe suggests that something different to Palm's special sauce needs to be on the menu.

I think the ringer switch is a bit redundant anyway, how often do people need to switch their phone in and out of silent/vibrate mode? It's something that can be easily done by software, as is the case with all other phones. I note that some dumbphones don't even have a dedicated on/off button!

RE: Treo 500v brings Palm up to date
twrock @ 9/12/2007 11:18:27 AM # Q
Treo 500v - I like it.

But of course you do. It's a WM device. ;)
Honestly though, I can see how a phone like this could sell fairly well. Mind you, not to me, but it will have a market.


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/
RE: Treo 500v brings Palm up to date
dkirker @ 9/12/2007 2:08:43 PM # Q
I think the ringer switch is a bit redundant anyway, how often do people need to switch their phone in and out of silent/vibrate mode?

ChiA, I disagree. I use the silent switch very often. At least once a day.

RE: Treo 500v brings Palm up to date
hkklife @ 9/12/2007 3:16:14 PM # Q
Chia;

I definitely agree on the functionality of the ring/vibrate switch. I use it numerous times throughout the day, even though I seldom even use my Treo for phone calls! It's extremely handy to mute system sounds/alerts and to toggle sound on when, say, watching MobiTV and then muting it when going into a meeting or an appointment.

At the very least, I'd like to have seen Palm added some hardware "sauce" with their traditional ring/vibrate switch up top and at least tweaked the SMS app or the today screen or something!

But, as far as quick & easy cash grabs go, this thing at least appears to be pretty reasonable from a hardware standpoint. Without a quad-band radio it looks like this'll be destined to be a non-USA product....which is probably a good thing since everyone is iPhone & BlackBerry crazy in the States nowadays. Any decent-but-unremarkable scraps like this Treo would still have to contend with the new Moto Q, increasingly feature-laden dumbphones and any number of HTC devices for the leftover customers.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Treo 500v brings Palm up to date
jnunez @ 9/12/2007 4:31:04 PM # Q
How is this Advanced when compared to it's competitors?! Unless it's my Treo 700P?!?!

PROS:
The new add-ons which I like are... microSD and the mini-usb. I am glad they dumped the palm connector. I am on my second one for my 700P because after a while it barely stays in place.

CONS:
Battery could have been a 2400mAh
No Touchscreen! Web browsing on it will be a chore.
Bluetooth 2.0 doesn't mean Stereo Audio.
Still no WiFi.

Pilot 1000 -> IIIe(w/ Ricochet wireless modem) -> Handspring -> 700P -> ????

RE: Treo 500v brings Palm up to date
Surur @ 9/12/2007 4:42:11 PM # Q
It definitely has stereo bluetooth, and web browsing is not such a chore without a touch screen - I bet already you are using your 5 way much more than your finger or stylus.

Surur

RE: Treo 500v brings Palm up to date
Ronin @ 9/12/2007 4:42:36 PM # Q
Yes to standardized connectors, yea mini-USB!

In the Spirit of Umoja,
Ronin
RE: Treo 500v brings Palm up to date
just_little_me @ 9/12/2007 5:52:04 PM # Q

I have a feeling the keyboard probably suffers from splotchy, uneven backlighting too!

And this is based on what exactly?? Staring into your tea-leaves this morning? A Widji board? An inner need to find fault in everything?

I have a feeling you're an 1d10t.


JLM.

No silent switch? Why?
freakout @ 9/12/2007 7:21:13 PM # Q
That's just as strange an omission as the reset button on the 680 and 755p. The silent switch has been a Treo trademark right from the beginning - heck, it stretches back even further to the VisorPhone. Why eliminate it? It's incredibly useful. Even Apple copied it on the iPhone.
RE: Treo 500v brings Palm up to date
craigdts @ 9/12/2007 7:41:38 PM # Q
Its kinda like T3 to TX

Palm likes to remove useful features and someone must have told Palm they don't use it that much. Actually is pretty shocking because that's one of my favorite treo hardware features.


RE: Treo 500v brings Palm up to date
hkklife @ 9/12/2007 8:23:54 PM # Q
JLM;

I have a feeling I know what I'm talking about and you're just looking to stir up another flame war.

Testing a 755p from Sprint side by side with 2 700p's and a 650 clearly revealed the 755p to have the worst keyboard and hard button backlighting of the quartet.

The 755p (like its sister 750 and 680 Treos) omits the backlighting of the direcitonal pad as well as the space bar. Certain keys on the 755p were dimmer than other keys nearby and made certain punctuation symbols especially difficult to read in darkness. And the new "2-in-1" split app hard buttons on the 755p are less distinctly defined than the older Treos and definitely showcase the splotchy backlighting problem I mentioned.

So the above factors, combined with Palm's removal of the reset button on newer Treos and the new 500's inexplicable lack of a ring/vibrate switch (previously a hallmark of the Treo line), camera mirror, and IR port makes it painfully obvious that Palm's looking to trim costs and boost margins wherever possible. Some of the changes are understandable yet others are bizarre, especially in light of the otherwise solid hardware choices on the 500 (2.0MP camera, BT 2.0, 150MB RAM etc).

Mind you, I don't have a problem with Palm rebranding "me-too" WinMob devices like this--I'd just prefer for Palm to keep it all lumped in under a "value" brand like Centro etc. Keep the Treos as the flagship devices with a uniform set of baseline features (ring/vibrate switch, larger LCDs etc).

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Treo 500v brings Palm up to date
freakout @ 9/12/2007 8:43:18 PM # Q
^^ Kris - the 'uneven lighting' issue is quite apparent on the 680 as well. I never really paid it much attention, until I got the 750 last week. Putting them side-by-side, it's like night and day - the 750 backlight is bright & strong all over. Build quality overall is far superior.

But, it's also important to note that the backlights fade unevenly over time too - my 650 was brilliant to start with, but nowadays looks like the old fogie that it is...

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

RE: Treo 500v brings Palm up to date
ChiA @ 9/12/2007 9:22:27 PM # Q
inexplicable lack of a ring/vibrate switch
The silent switch has been a Treo trademark
I use the silent switch very often. At least once a day

I think it was a good idea for Palm to get rid of this ringer switch to bring costs down. I think it's a waste of money and engineering to have one switch dedicated to a function that's only occasionally used.

I find this complaining all the more ironic as I'm someone who finds the vibrate function essential on a mobile. All my mobiles since 1996 have had the vibrate function, none of them have had a dedicated key to switch it on or off yet I've managed fine.

Who knows, maybe the 500v uses a similar method to Nokia of switching to a vibrate/silent function, where a quick tap on the power button changes the profile. We can only tell by getting the phone in our hands.

RE: Treo 500v brings Palm up to date
ChiA @ 9/12/2007 9:42:13 PM # Q
Web browsing on it will be a chore

The Nokia N95 doesn't have a touchscreen yet browsing with that is a pleasure. I distinctly recall Palm emphasising how all the functions on the the debut Treo 600 could be used without having to use the stylus. Browsing with a five way pad is surprisingly easy, you get used to it in the same way you get used to using a mouse. After all, most desktops/laptops don't have touchscreens either.

Without a quad-band radio it looks like this'll be destined to be a non-USA product
It has a GSM 1900 radio. There are GSM1900 networks in the USA so never say never! I'll even hazard a guess that the 1900 networks outnumber the 850 ones in the US.

And even though it's a GSM handset, 1200mAh is STILL too small for a stock battery in this day and age.
It's not just the size of the battery that counts bu the amount of power the device draws from it. Putting it simply a D size battery being used to power a microwave oven (!?) isn't going to last as long as an AA size battery for a pocket torch.

Palm says 10 days standby and 4.5 hours talk. Even if real world figures were half that they're still respectable duration. Again we'll just have to wait and see.

RE: Treo 500v brings Palm up to date
hkklife @ 9/12/2007 9:49:19 PM # Q
I'd personally MUCH rather use a WinMob 6 device w/o a touchscreen than a FrankenGarnet device. POS is still rooted in touchscreen tech. and removing it would break compatibility with, oh, about ten zillion legacy apps and (especially) games.

So I'm fine with the POS Centro having lesser-spec'd hardware vs. the 500 if it means keeping the touchscreen.

As far as the 500 in the USA, well, I'll just say that Ryan was denied a review unit by Palm since they'd not letting anyone outside Europe have eval units. So I'm almost certain that limits its global appeal. I see the Treo 500 as a sort of one-off rebranded device....relatively short lifespan (like the T|T2) with strong early sales that'll taper off pretty quickly and be replaced by the next big "thing" from Palm in mid '08.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Treo 500v brings Palm up to date
freakout @ 9/12/2007 9:50:29 PM # Q
^^ But really, how much could a ringer switch cost?

I use it all the time. When it's in my pocket, the switch goes on - I'm more likely to feel it vibrating than I am to hear it ringing in there. A hardware switch is just more user-friendly than a software menu, and it also provides an easy way to check silent status without having to turn it on or pull it out of your pocket.

Michael Ducker from Treocentral had a great piece wrote a great piece about it in 2005:

http://www.treocentral.com/content/Stories/616-1.htm

It is surprising; no other phone has ever used the simplicity of a ringer switch. Every phone has a method to turn off sound, but all except for the Treo's ringer switch are flawed. In every case, these methods require the user a) push multiple buttons to get the task done, and b) look at the screen to confirm that the sound is off. The Treo's ringer switch solves both of these issues, providing one button control, and physical feedback (run your finger over the top of the Treo) over the status of the device.

I was curious to how the idea of a ringer switch cameup, so I asked PalmOne, and Chris Cadwell, Director of Product Marketing, responded. As the story goes, Donna Dubinsky, the co-founder of Palm and Handspring, "hated having someone's PDA or cellphone ring or sound an alert during a meeting. It distracted her, and drove her up the wall." Donna's immediate solution to the problem was to enact a $1 fine whenever a phone or PDA went off.

It was under these condtions that Handspring engineers designed the Visorphone. During one design meeting, "Jeff Hawkins, [inventor of the Palm Pilot, Palm and Handspring co-founder], said he wanted a way to turn off the ringer and other sounds quickly, and a slider switch just seemed like the obvious idea. I do not remember who came up with the slider idea initially, it may have been Jeff himself, but honestly the team didn't realize that we were doing anything unique or different at the time - such was our inexperience with cell phones back then! It was just obvious to us that this was needed, so we did it. What really surprised us, I think, was realizing later that other cell phones didn't have this feature, and moreover, I continue to be surprised, given how useful that little switch is, that no company I know of has copied it!"

Cadwell ended, "So as far as I know we've never considered getting rid of it. Most of us use it often (even now that Donna isn't here anymore) and we do get lots of positive feedback from our customers about this feature."
Long live the ringer switch!



Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680
RE: Treo 500v brings Palm up to date
LiveFaith @ 9/12/2007 11:00:55 PM # Q
** I have a feeling you're an 1d10t. ** ... JLM

** Testing a 755p from Sprint side by side with 2 700p's and a 650 clearly revealed the 755p to have the worst keyboard and hard button backlighting of the quartet.
The 755p (like its sister 750 and 680 Treos) omits the backlighting of the direcitonal pad as well as the space bar. Certain keys on the 755p were dimmer than other keys nearby and made certain punctuation symbols especially difficult to read in darkness. And the new "2-in-1" split app hard buttons on the 755p are less distinctly defined than the older Treos and definitely showcase the splotchy backlighting problem I mentioned. ** ... HKK

JLM,

Do you have anything substantial to respond with here? If so, I would like to hear a quality explanation for your "feelings". If not, are you willing and mature enough to make a respectable apology?

BTW, I vote for the ringer switch also. What a super feature that I use a whole lot with almost no effort.

Pat Horne

RE: Treo 500v brings Palm up to date
jca666us @ 9/12/2007 11:30:20 PM # Q
>That's just as strange an omission as the reset button on the 680 and 755p. The silent switch has been a Treo
>trademark right from the beginning - heck, it stretches back even further to the VisorPhone. Why eliminate it?
>It's incredibly useful. Even Apple copied it on the iPhone.

Freak, you're a riot! There are hundreds of phones that have a dedicated silent switch - doubtful Apple copied that from Palm.

It's not amazing that Palm left it out - it's yet another example of their famous attention to detail.

RE: Treo 500v brings Palm up to date
freakout @ 9/13/2007 1:30:38 AM # Q
^^ Okay, troll boy. Name them.
RE: Treo 500v brings Palm up to date
Ronin @ 9/13/2007 8:00:27 AM # Q
looks like there is no IR. Another first.

In the Spirit of Umoja,
Ronin
Reply to this comment

The Treo 500v - I like it.

Surur @ 9/12/2007 10:25:06 AM # Q
There are better devices, but this is not a bad device. Its aimed at casual users, and if Palm can advertise this properly they could get good sales (though certainly not a hit).

The Vodafone carousel seems to trump any special sauce Palm has added before to WM, in exposing a lot of functionality and ease of use for casual users.

See here:
http://www.theunwired.net/?item=videoview-hands-on-video-of-the-new-palm-treo-500v-home-screen-navigation

To re-iterate - it will do decently, but not 100 000's or millions.

Now if Palm had included GPS...

Surur

RE: The Treo 500v - I like it.
Surur @ 9/12/2007 3:03:10 PM # Q
How did my comment get separated out from the thread above?

Surur

RE: The Treo 500v - I like it.
mikecane @ 9/12/2007 3:18:01 PM # Q
Yer hit the wrong button.

Not surprising for a WinMob user.

ROTF, etc...

RE: The Treo 500v - I like it.
Admin @ 9/12/2007 3:22:32 PM # Q
Hi Surur, I was moving the threads over from the earlier story and I think I made yours a seperate thread by mistake.
RE: The Treo 500v - I like it.
lolongan @ 9/12/2007 4:28:36 PM # Q
Yes, the design and form factor is not so bad, but there are plenty of other smartphone s which look as nice as this Treo, or even slimer. Apart from this, how one can be impressed by this new device from Palm : no Wifi, no touchscreen, no PalmOS, and nothing new at all !

RE: The Treo 500v - I like it.
SeldomVisitor @ 9/12/2007 4:39:37 PM # Q
More than a couple folks on TreoCentral think this is not REALLY from PALM but has been entirely outsourced. Even the "cool" GUI features were apparently done by (or contracted by) Vodafone.

Thus TVoR's (or whomever's) "stamp a logo on someone else's phone" may be here with PALM already.

[Is this a BAD thing? For fanboys probably yes. For PALM's bottomline, however, maybe not. We'll have to see how it sells to end-customers though, of course, PALM makes most of their bucks by selling to Vodafone. It will be interesting to see, if we ever do, just what the order size requirements from the ODM to PALM were for an entire device...]


RE: The Treo 500v - I like it.
Surur @ 9/12/2007 4:53:18 PM # Q
I imagine some guy will go into a phone shop, and browse the available devices. He is interested in a qwerty device, maybe having seen a friend use it (or god forbid having seen an advert on TV). He sees the Samsung i607, Samsung i602, Nokia E61i, HTC Cavalier, Sony Ericsson P1, Blackberry Curve and BlackBerry Pearl and the Palm 500v.

He is attracted by the brighter white colour of the Palm 500v, vs the dark business-like colours of nearly all the other devices. He sees some phones have WIFI, but they also seem to cost a $100 more. He sees that it seems to match all the other specs, and the GUI seems attractive. He decided to settle for the 500v.

The short of it is the main feature of this device is that it MAY be cheaper than is competitors, and this really makes a difference, especially if its not very far of from the other devices in specs. Thats the definition of a low-end device.

Surur

RE: The Treo 500v - I like it.
mikecane @ 9/12/2007 5:31:14 PM # Q
Eh. I don't care about it. If it brings in some $$$ to Palm, then good. If not, their fault.

RE: The Treo 500v - I like it.
lolongan @ 9/12/2007 5:52:46 PM # Q
IMHO, it is a mistake to think that there is a mass market for low end and cheap smartphones. It's like thinking that cheap sport cars will sell like rolls. No, it is simply incompatible. If one is interested to buy a smartphone and can afford to pay for a high speed mobile dataplan, then paying 100$ or 200$ more to get an up-to-date device is not a problem and he/she will go for it.

RE: The Treo 500v - I like it.
Surur @ 9/12/2007 5:57:03 PM # Q

What about SMS junkies? And IM? Or even people who want to use the device for GPS (very common in UK) Smartphones are not just about streaming SlingBox.

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...
Hey!! I made associate writer at PDA247. Come see my nattering over there!!
www.clieuk.co.uk/wm.shtml

RE: The Treo 500v - I like it.
freakout @ 9/12/2007 7:16:54 PM # Q
IMHO, it is a mistake to think that there is a mass market for low end and cheap smartphones. It's like thinking that cheap sport cars will sell like rolls. No, it is simply incompatible.

Far from it. The thing is, every phone is on its way to becoming a 'smartphone' of sorts. Sooner or later the distinction between dumb, feature and smart phone is going to be so infinitesmal it'll be practically non-existent.

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

RE: The Treo 500v - I like it.
hkklife @ 9/12/2007 8:50:25 PM # Q
I am almost positive that both the Centro and Treo 500v are based on this HTC design.
Sure, the LCD & innards might change but the basic underpinnings are the same, IMO.

http://www.pdablast.com/images/articles/iris.jpg

http://www.pocketpcblast.com/articles/2007/8/2007814-HTC-Iris-gets-FCC.html

And remember, the 800w leaked pic that was reported here a while back on Sprint looked nearly identical to the iris above.



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: The Treo 500v - I like it.
just_little_me @ 9/12/2007 10:35:21 PM # Q
I am almost positive that both the Centro and Treo 500v are based on this HTC design.

Bzzt! Wrong again...! Keep guessing.


JLM.

RE: The Treo 500v - I like it.
LiveFaith @ 9/12/2007 11:07:28 PM # Q
Oh my, that's even uglier than the Gandolf. Rounded edges seem to be the prevailing scheme at the moment (iPhone etc.) But every time I see this little landscape QVGAer in white plastic glory, I always think back to this that the FCC posted:

http://www.slashphone.com/uploads/3589/inventec_mercury_1s.jpg

Pat Horne

Reply to this comment

How's it stack up?

mikecane @ 9/12/2007 2:11:40 PM # Q
I don't pay any attention to Palm's phones. Is this an advancement on past ones in any way? Even the (shudder!) WinMob ones? Can it fly?

RE: How's it stack up?
Surur @ 9/12/2007 3:06:07 PM # Q
Its about par for the course. Its thicker than most of them, but otherwise the tech is similar. It does not have WIFI, but its not especially unusual in WM smartphones. Some have and some have not.

Its not great and its not too far behind. Unlike may Palm products, it could have been a lot worse.

Surur

RE: How's it stack up?
numlock @ 9/12/2007 3:21:10 PM # Q
It's amazing how Colligan states focusing on ONE platform as a reason for abondoning Foleo, yet here they are a week later announcing a new device on a new platform!
RE: How's it stack up?
freakout @ 9/12/2007 7:08:36 PM # Q
^^ Windows Mobile is not a "new platform"....
RE: How's it stack up?
jca666us @ 9/12/2007 11:32:01 PM # Q
No, but it is a variant of windows mobile - yet something else which Palm must support.

RE: How's it stack up?
hkklife @ 9/13/2007 12:00:18 AM # Q
Let's see, just off the top of my head:


OSes:

-Palm OS Garnet 5.x

-Palm OS II a.k.a. "Plinux"

-Windows Mobile 6 Professional

-Windows Mobile 6 Standard

-Windows Mobile 5


Connector ports:

-MultiConnector a.k.a. Athena

-miniUSB solo

-miniUSB + AC plug

Expansion cards:

-Secure Digital

-Secure Digital High Capacity (SDHC)

-miniSD

-miniSDHC

-microSD

Screen resolutions:

320x320 (POS)
320x480 (POS)

240x240 (WM)
320x240 (WM)
320x320 (WM)

That's still an awful lot of standards for Palm to be supporting as they try to streamline their lineup.

Let's hope that within 6 onths a lot of the above can be jettisoned and/or put out to pasture and Palm can start to really unify their lineup with a handful of solid formats (at least for the hardware). I personally like fullsize SDHC, Athena connector, 320x320 LCD and a decent quality 1.3mp camera across as much of the lineup as possible.

P.S. I have to admit being STUNNED that Palm was not the FIRST WinMob licensee out the door with a 320x320 smartphone.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: How's it stack up?
freakout @ 9/13/2007 12:58:36 AM # Q
No, but it is a variant of windows mobile - yet something else which Palm must support.

But unlike the Foleo, they wouldn't have to work on OS updates, patches etc. And their carrier partners take on a fair bit of the customer support costs. The cost of selling & supporting outsourced WinMob devices is nothing compared to the cost of developing, maintaining and supporting two incompatible Linux operating systems.

RE: How's it stack up?
hkklife @ 9/13/2007 1:35:50 AM # Q
True, Tim. In fact, what DOES Palm have to support for their WinMob devices? The ODMs do the hardware heavy lifting and M$ handles all of the ActiveSync stuff, OS updates etc etc.

If these things help bring in more $ for Palm's "flagship" Plinux Treos next year (or even, GASP!, a new PDA!) then I'm all for it. I'd just like to have seen a little pinch of the Palm special sauce appled to "me-too" releases like the Treo 500.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: How's it stack up?
freakout @ 9/13/2007 4:31:58 AM # Q
^^ Same here.

In fact, what DOES Palm have to support for their WinMob devices?

Well, they make some neat Flash animations on their website... ;)

Reply to this comment

Treo 500v Live Pictures

Ryan @ 9/12/2007 2:43:10 PM # Q
PDAExpertos has some good in-person shots of the Treo 500 from the press conference in Spain:

http://www.pdaexpertos.com/noticias/118960593633278.shtml

Reply to this comment

Wow! THAT is a lot of memory?

hhfs @ 9/12/2007 4:15:07 PM # Q
Can anyone justify why Palm continues to provide dismal onboard memory? 256MB is so weak I can't even believe it! Just consider this or any future US model no matter the carrier further justification for the purchase of an iPhone. Bye-Bye Palm...
RE: Wow! THAT is a lot of memory?
Patrick @ 9/12/2007 10:02:09 PM # Q
Yea, the 4 gig iPhone gets abandoned due to a poor showing next to its 8 gig big brother and Palm releases a brand spanking new 0.25 gig phone. Wow, indeed.

RE: Wow! THAT is a lot of memory?
LiveFaith @ 9/12/2007 11:19:13 PM # Q
Built in memory is not all that important when a device, like this one, has plenty of room built in for all the apps to run out of. In fact, this arrangement actually allows for a muuuuch lower cost threshold to the buyer, yet offers the power user expansion options at the cost point they desire. The other day he said "I doubt I need that memory card. What good is it?"

This is not an "iPod" that does phone. It's a phone that can do "iPod" if needed. My brother and law recently got a new 755P and loves it. I've hooked him up with tons of goodies etc. I got him an SDMini off eBay and Aliph Jawbone BT headset etc. The

MicroSD IMHO is a shame, since this fatty does not warrant such a tiny format. My 680 now has more memory than an 8GB iPhone and can be had for less than $200 after purchasing a low cost SD.

Pat Horne

RE: Wow! THAT is a lot of memory?
LiveFaith @ 9/12/2007 11:21:03 PM # Q
Mouse error ... the statement "The other day he said "I doubt I need that memory card. What good is it?" should go at the end of the 2nd para.

Pat Horne
RE: Wow! THAT is a lot of memory?
PacManFoo @ 9/13/2007 9:12:20 AM # Q
Built in memory is not all that important when a device...

Really?
Who needs more then 8 MB and Grayscale anyway!

PDA's Past and Present:
iPod Touch ???? Maybe soon.
Palm - IIIxe, Vx, M500, M505, Tungsten T, TX
Handspring - Edge, Platinum, Deluxe
Sony - SJ22
Apple - MP110, MP2000, MP2100

RE: Wow! THAT is a lot of memory?
hkklife @ 9/13/2007 9:59:46 AM # Q
You can NEVER have enough memory.

That said, and to be quite honest, I'd rather have, say, 128MB onboard with a slot that can handle an 8GB+ SDHC card instead of 8GB onboard like the iPhone with no removable memory card slot.

Ideally we'd have 8GB onboard PLUS a chunky expansion card in the slot but NO hardware company wants to be that practical and offer their users those sorts of possibilities (though the new Creative Zen flash-based mp3 player has up to 16GB onboard + an SDHC slot)

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Wow! THAT is a lot of memory?
Ronin @ 9/13/2007 11:32:59 AM # Q
Please correct me if I am wrong, isn't the built-in memory on the iPhone severely restricted in the manner in which a user can access it? Almost to the point where it just barely qualifies for the designation "user accessible".

In which case it would seem that comparison of the user accessible memory on the 500v and the iPhone is a false one.

In the Spirit of Umoja,
Ronin

RE: Wow! THAT is a lot of memory?
LiveFaith @ 9/13/2007 12:20:33 PM # Q
Foo,
You cut the quote right in the middle of the important part. I use my 680 every day for docs, mp3, vids, etc, and never think twice about the fact that the device only has 64mb user memory. It's just not relevant when the OS and apps seamlessly access the other 8,000mb.

The device manufacturer does not have to lock themselves into a high price point by slapping 8GB in the device. They just need plenty for apps internal and expansion that allows the user freedom to choose how much (if any) memory they want for data. I'm with HKK. I much prefer my 8,128mb Treo architecture to that of the static 8,000mb system demanded by Apple.

Get it?

Pat Horne

RE: Wow! THAT is a lot of memory?
PacManFoo @ 9/13/2007 2:26:21 PM # Q
To each his own. Personally I've never liked the fact that I could easily lose or someone could easily snatch up my SD card and 90% of my actual data would be gone. Why not make a TX or Treo with the 8-16 gb built in and have the ability to add on a SD card? Now I have one less device I need to haul around since my entire music (at least in my case) collection would be on the same device and I wouldn't need an iPod as well. Of course Palm would have to make the audio much better then what is currently on the TX.

Got it?

PDA's Past and Present:
iPod Touch ???? Maybe soon.
Palm - IIIxe, Vx, M500, M505, Tungsten T, TX
Handspring - Edge, Platinum, Deluxe
Sony - SJ22
Apple - MP110, MP2000, MP2100

RE: Wow! THAT is a lot of memory?
hkklife @ 9/13/2007 5:21:16 PM # Q
PMF;

Well, for one, FrankenGarnet is limited to individiual drive volumes of ~4GB or less. Secondly, it can only address up to 128mb of main memory. So, in theory, the absolute best you could hope for would be a Garnet device with 128MB RAM, a 4GB internal flash volume (or Microdrive, ugh!), with a 4GB SDHC card in the slot.

Pat and I both have 8GB SDHC cards but the Treos see those as two separate 4GB virtual volumes on a single physical card. This is (IMO) the main reason Palm regressed back to mini and microSD formats...to buy themselves another 6-12 months of keeping their heads above water with a final Garnet device or two. Taking the backward step to smaller-capacity flash formats lets them coast a bit longer without having to spend the $ and time to try to address 8GB+ card implementation in an OS they are gonna EOL fairly soon. After being an early supported of SD in '01 how else can you explain Palm dumping fullsize SD & SDHC just when it started to become a fantastic format from a size/speed/cost/compatibility standpoint?



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Wow! THAT is a lot of memory?
PacManFoo @ 9/13/2007 8:53:07 PM # Q
hkklife,

Thanks for the informative reply. I was not aware of all those limitations regarding memory. Sure explains a lot about what Palms been doing.

I thought of another bad thing about SD cards. I also back up my Palm to my card, so in effect if my card was ever lost or stolen then all my info would be easily accessible that is a scary thought and another reason I would prefer a device a.k.a iPod Touch that has a lot of built in memory.

I may have to rely on third party hacks to get the iPod Touch usable in the way I would like but once I thought about it I already have to do that with Palm. For instance here are some of the third party apps that I nearly have to have on my TX:

WifiFix
brightnessfix
FrameTX
PowerDigi
Flushit
Sleuth
NVBackup

And some apps that I have because the built in apps just don't cut it:

Volume
Datebk6
MegaLauncher
Core Player

And some apps I have because Palm didn't include but are almost a must have:

PalmPDF
Clean Uninstaller
Filez

If it were not for these third party (in some cases "hacks") I never could have used Palm this long.



PDA's Past and Present:
iPod Touch ???? Maybe soon.
Palm - IIIxe, Vx, M500, M505, Tungsten T, TX
Handspring - Edge, Platinum, Deluxe
Sony - SJ22
Apple - MP110, MP2000, MP2100

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Possible Pricing

SeldomVisitor @ 9/13/2007 10:06:43 AM # Q
RE: Possible Pricing
mikecane @ 9/13/2007 12:49:08 PM # Q
How do those prices compare with competitor phones? Are there other phones given away free too with plans?

RE: Possible Pricing
Surur @ 9/13/2007 1:54:15 PM # Q
Most.

Surur

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Digitimes says Inventec is the manufacturer

SeldomVisitor @ 9/14/2007 7:28:36 AM # Q
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