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Comments on: Palm OS Garnet VM Released for Nokia Internet Tablets

Nokia n800 Palm OSAccess has announced today that it is releasing Palm OS Garnet VM software for the Nokia series of Internet Tablet devices. The Garnet VM essentially acts as an emulator allowing you to run Palm OS applications on a Nokia N770, N800 and N810 Internet Tablet. The a beta version is currently available a free download from Access.
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Something Palm could never have done

rmhurdman @ 11/13/2007 12:47:45 PM # Q
Access is doing something that Palm could never have done. It's great for developers and users and may boost the dying Palm economy. (I didn't say "revive").

I wonder if I can use this on my EeePC or if they'll produce a version that can run on any Debian-based linux distro?

Palm Pro -> Handspring Visor -> Tungsten C -> Asus EeePC

RE: Something Palm could never have done
mikecane @ 11/13/2007 1:17:18 PM # Q
>>>I wonder if I can use this on my EeePC or if they'll produce a version that can run on any Debian-based linux distro?

DROOOOOL!

Hey, Gekko! Think about THAT!!

RE: Something Palm could never have done
Xtremegene @ 11/13/2007 2:52:36 PM # Q
Oops, forgot I registered here two years ago and have never posted since then...

Anyways, !!! from me. It provides a whole new use for even the 'old' N770 tablet, which, being the cheapo I am, would be the device I want to get. I wonder how much (if anything) the VM will cost once it is out of beta though.


It also seems funny to me that, as far as I know, Nokia is reversing the trend in hardware production that Palm has followed of recent years. Undoubtedly, Nokia has a ton more resources to do so, but they've gone from making (good :D) phones to tablet/PDAish devices, while Palm has gone from PDAs to almost smartphones exclusively...

RE: Something Palm could never have done
mikecane @ 11/13/2007 3:11:48 PM # Q
>>>whole new use for even the 'old' N770 tablet, which, being the cheapo I am, would be the device I want to get

You're into self-punishment, are you?

RE: Something Palm could never have done
Xtremegene @ 11/13/2007 3:23:19 PM # Q
(Not sure how to quote here, so I just did it manually.)

>>> You're into self-punishment, are you?

What, is the 770 really that bad? If it counts for anything though, I have been using a Pocket PC for the last 3 years (going onto 4!). :)

The n800 already seems to be dropping alot from its original $400 price though, which is very nice. I can't say if I would want the integrated GPS (along with the higher price tag) in the n810 because I've never used GPS before anyways.

RE: Something Palm could never have done
Bluevoice @ 11/13/2007 4:08:53 PM # Q
Palm OS Garnet OS VM allready runs on the eeePC, take a look at this:

http://www.ninelocks.com/blog/?p=39

RE: Something Palm could never have done
SeldomVisitor @ 11/13/2007 4:16:42 PM # Q
Good grief.

RE: Something Palm could never have done
mikecane @ 11/14/2007 10:32:55 AM # Q
>>>What, is the 770 really that bad?

You must get out and around the Net more, son. Scroll down for pertinent link.

RE: Something Palm could never have done
Xtremegene @ 11/14/2007 11:04:14 AM # Q
>>> You must get out and around the Net more, son. Scroll down for pertinent link.

I think I get out enough here, thanks. :P

As to scrolling down for the link, thanks, I already read it yesterday after you posted it. Correlate the time stamps of my comment that you commented on and your comment where you provided the link (not to mention who you were responding to when you posted the link)...?

Sorry if mentioning the 770 really brought those demons out!

RE: Something Palm could never have done
mikecane @ 11/15/2007 10:39:11 AM # Q
Check timestamps!? You ask too much!

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Garnet VM for Linux?

Poopie @ 11/13/2007 1:14:54 PM # Q
Would be nice if Access released source or at least an X86 binary for a Garnet VM on Linux...

We used to have CoPilot *Emulator* for UNIX/Linux, but that was only for Palm OS 3.X, then Palm only gave us POSE *Simulator* for Windows.

Garnet VM for Linux would be really nice to have... for Linux desktop and laptop use, as well any any other Linux-based phone platforms that may have recently released SDKs.

Integration of Garnet VM with Android would certainly allow developers and users to get more than a few more miles out of PalmOS.

USR Palm Pilot 1000 --> Palm Pilot Professional --> TRG SuperPilot --> Palm IIIc --> Palm V --> Palm M505 --> Palm M515 --> Tungsten T|2 --> Treo 600 --> LifeDrive --> iPhone

RE: Garnet VM for Linux?
twrock @ 11/13/2007 6:34:13 PM # Q
I'm having a hard time being interested in such a beast on the PC. Why bother? Garnet is designed to be a "touch" driven OS for small, portable machines. Without touch/stylus and portability, I wouldn't bother.
Access is already trying to sell their OS with Garnet built in to phone manufacturers.


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/
RE: Garnet VM for Linux?
iburrell @ 11/15/2007 7:03:25 PM # Q
Actually, the download at http://www.access-company.com/developers/garnetvm/index.html is only for Linux i386. The instructions for running the Garnet VM on Windows basically say "install Ubuntu in a virtual machine".


RE: Garnet VM for Linux?
Poopie @ 11/16/2007 12:18:28 PM # Q
I downloaded it and there is a windows binary that starts a Linux-based garnet VM under Windows.

Ran it on Linux and it does what it says... I was sort of hoping it would have all the standard PIM apps in the GVM so I could use it like just like a PDA, but I suppose with a little effort I could build an image with whatever programs I want and care about and not have to include any junk I don't need or want.

Seems some of the screen resolution choices that are documented weren't available in the non-debug binary... haven't done that much testing with it yet.

USR Palm Pilot 1000 --> Palm Pilot Professional --> TRG SuperPilot --> Palm IIIc --> Palm V --> Palm M505 --> Palm M515 --> Tungsten T|2 --> Treo 600 --> LifeDrive --> iPhone

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770 version not available?

mikecane @ 11/13/2007 1:23:41 PM # Q
OK, I broke down and signed up for the download.

They tell me to watch my mail.

Been watching. I expected an immediate bot-sent email with a d/l link.

Nothing has arrived in my mailbox.

Right then, Not holding breath.

RE: 770 version not available?
feranick @ 11/13/2007 2:33:34 PM # Q
Not just the 770. I am waiting for an email regarding the N800...
RE: 770 version not available?
mikecane @ 11/13/2007 3:14:06 PM # Q
I got the email. I've downloaded it. Now to figure out htf to install it...

Will report back. Doing jillions of things online at once right now...

RE: 770 version not available?
mikecane @ 11/13/2007 3:56:37 PM # Q
OK, this is how it went:

1) Click email link, agree to EULA
2) Download
3) Plug in 770 to desktop
4) Find and move garnet_VM.deb file to 770's MMC
5) Disconnect from PC
6) On 770, File Manager to see file on MMC
7) Tap on Garnet_VM.deb
8) Application Installer comes up: Install? Yes.
9) Agree to EULA, get Garnet_VM start screen that has options
10) Tap Launch
11) Ooh, I Can Haz P4lmOZ In Mah 770!

There's no Rotate for it (Rotate button brings you to Calendar and then cycles through its view with repeated presses). And it is SMALL. I tried to take a picture comparing the Garnet/770 screen to my LifeDrive screen, but they came out crap. It is SMALL!! Like, TWO INCHES TALL. Get it? SMALL! TINY! TEENY!!!

It is fast as launched, but that's saying NOTHING because I have no data in the Apps: Calendar, Contacts, Memos. (Nor do I intend to try to load them... at least not now. Maybe not even later.)

Then I downloaded TiBR (ebook reader) and a random ebook from manybooks.net. Put them on the MMC as per above. Launched Garnet_GM, hit the Install button on that start screen, navigated to the two files and installed them.

They worked.

If you want me to try a specific app, post the URL for the app and I'll see if I can squeeze in the time for it.

My 770's digitizer is shot, so I couldn't try Graffiti at all (the digitizer is shot from me BASHING THE GODDAM SCREEN WITH THE STYLUS TO GET THE GODDAMNED SLOW 770 TO RESPOND! I'm not kidding when I call it the BPOSKTM!)

As other people have pointed out, and I agree: It's a toy right now. Once Rotate is enabled for a full-screen experience, they might have something (not that *I* would ever *buy* an Anti-Net tab from goddam Die!Nokia!Die!).

Oh, yeah, I got the full 320x480 experience in all apps. Even TiBR.

YMMV.

RE: 770 version not available?
Xtremegene @ 11/13/2007 4:02:20 PM # Q
I guess that answers my question about how bad the 770 is. :P

RE: 770 version not available?
mikecane @ 11/13/2007 4:23:45 PM # Q
No, this will tell you how bad the 770 is:

http://mikecane.wordpress.com/2007/01/09/nokia-770-the-endgame/

NSFW language (all deserved!). Not for Christians or Other Children.

RE: 770 version not available?
Xtremegene @ 11/13/2007 4:41:13 PM # Q
Wow; the trials and tribulations of being an early adopter. Not to derail this thread entirely, but I find it funny that one of your earlier posts about using a BT keyboard with the 770 was induced by writing a post about the Sony Reader. I incidentally have a Sony Reader (PRS-500) and love reading on it.

In any event, I guess you learned to live with the 770 as you're testing the GVM on it?

RE: 770 version not available?
mikecane @ 11/13/2007 4:55:31 PM # Q
Hello no! I stopped using the damned thing a long time ago. I had to remind myself how it frikkin worked again. And all the trauma flooded back (DIE NOKIA DIE!).

Yeah, I love the Sony Reader (but still don't have one). I just wish they could get publishers to drop the price of ebooks to realistic levels! I am seriously waiting for the moment when I can spend tons of money for my elibrary (I've had to stop buying print books because of their weight; who wants to *carry* that stuff when moving?).

RE: 770 version not available?
mikecane @ 11/14/2007 10:33:39 AM # Q
So look at this. No one asked me to try any software. What a relief!

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No links in email

Wilma @ 11/13/2007 2:47:01 PM # Q
I experienced the same problem with my hotmail account (=no email). However, the link arrived immediately to my gmail account after giving that instead. Others have experienced similar problems. See www.internettablettalk.com for more info.
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Yes, VM for eeePC would be really cool!

batmon @ 11/13/2007 2:51:29 PM # Q
I was ready to switch to WM6 mainly due to Opera 4 and Java support from PalmOS. IBM java is just too old!

I have been A Palm user since PalmPilot Pro. If they can make VM for eeePC then I will stay a bit more!

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It's going to be released FREE!?

SeldomVisitor @ 11/13/2007 3:05:52 PM # Q
According to TreoCentral, Access is gonna release this free.

RE: It's going to be released FREE!?
mikecane @ 11/13/2007 3:14:57 PM # Q
Not gonna. Apparently HAVE.

RE: It's going to be released FREE!?
SeldomVisitor @ 11/13/2007 3:33:21 PM # Q
No, the Beta is free - TreoCentral says the full final will be, too.

RE: It's going to be released FREE!?
mikecane @ 11/13/2007 3:46:07 PM # Q
Ah, OK. So many details!!

Reply to this comment

Wow!

Tuckermaclain @ 11/13/2007 3:59:22 PM # Q
The 810 has 2GB internal storage and 2 SD slots? Graffiti 1 no less. Why couldn't dear old Palm do that?

RE: Wow!
hkklife @ 11/13/2007 5:00:08 PM # Q
1. This shows how arrogant/lazy/incompetent/unconcerned for their customers Palm Inc. are. Graffiti 1?!?!?! I *NEVER* thought we'd see this day!

2. This shows how aggressive Access are becoming. Just when all of the PIC faithful were ready to stick a fork in Access/PalmSource 6-12 months ago, they come from out of nowhere with some reasonable looking ALP screenshots, positive buzz and now this!

3.Just imagine what will happen if Access lets Nokia become an official Garnet/ALP licensee for cheap. What if Nokia were to release a smaller, cheaper, cut-down version of the N800/810 with Garnet pre-installed? And then follow it up with a fancier version runnng ALP with a solid final release of the Garnet VM onboard? WOW! This sort of a non-telephone, non-voice device, I've always maintained, is the best way to dip a toe into the waters of a new OS.

4. I wonder if any of this will make Palm wake up and offer, say, Blazer, VersaMail & SDHC updates to the TX? Hmmmm.....NAH!



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Wow!
mikecane @ 11/13/2007 5:25:00 PM # Q
>>>3.Just imagine what will happen if Access lets Nokia become an official Garnet/ALP licensee for cheap. What if Nokia were to release a smaller, cheaper, cut-down version of the N800/810 with Garnet pre-installed? And then follow it up with a fancier version runnng ALP with a solid final release of the Garnet VM onboard?

SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP!!!

Death before Nokia, I say!! Death!!

RE: Wow!
iburrell @ 11/15/2007 7:06:07 PM # Q
The N810 does not have 2 SD slots. It has one miniSD slot. I am guessing that this was some confusion that the N810 had the same slots as the N800. But it doesn't which is unfortunate.


Reply to this comment

Whoa!

t3h @ 11/13/2007 5:00:18 PM # Q
This is a scary coincidence. I was only just considering replacing my TX with a N800 and now this!


Palm TX + 1GB SD + Motorola v3x = awesomeness

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ZombieGarnet

Gekko @ 11/13/2007 5:30:57 PM # Q

i bet this is even buggier than FrankenGarnet.



RE: ZombieGarnet
Poopie @ 11/13/2007 6:51:22 PM # Q

i bet this is even buggier than FrankenGarnet.

I bet it reboots faster.

Do you think Access has actually been fixing bugs in Garnet? [gasp!]

What are the version numbers for Palm OS and the core apps in Garnet VM?

RE: ZombieGarnet
Ryan @ 11/13/2007 7:03:41 PM # Q
the Garnet VM reports Palm OS Garnet v5.5, which is the same version I've seen in the ALP demonstrations.

I should add that there is nothing really different from v.5.4.99999 that I can tell, it's just the very basic uncustomized PIM apps that are included here.

RE: ZombieGarnet
hkklife @ 11/13/2007 9:52:31 PM # Q
Ryan (or anyone else);

How fast/accurate is the G1 input? Does it behave exactly like it did in the good ol' days? How does G1 fare with 320x480? Does it have fullscreen writing support etc? And is capitalization performed the same way as G2 (going between the character & letter areas) or do you use the old "up" stroke to do caps?



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

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Nice

DarthRepublican @ 11/13/2007 7:07:19 PM # Q
I guess when Palm finally "dies" (people around here have been making that prediction for close to a decade and will likely continue to do so for a long time), the PalmOS will live on in newer gadgets through emulation.

RE: Nice
Gekko @ 11/13/2007 7:38:20 PM # Q

ZombieGarnet will live on!!!

RE: Nice
mikecane @ 11/14/2007 10:34:49 AM # Q
Plan 9 from Planet ACCESS!!

Reply to this comment

what about StyleTap?

happyPalm @ 11/14/2007 5:20:46 PM # Q
did the StyleTap guys have a beta working on the Nokia yet?


RE: what about StyleTap?
Ryan @ 11/15/2007 11:57:28 PM # Q
I believe they are working on a version for the Symbian based Nokia S60 platform, which is commonly used on the Nokia smartphones and not the tablets. Last I heard I think it was due early next year.
Reply to this comment

N800

Kathleen @ 11/27/2007 12:23:22 PM # Q
I am thrilled with Garnet VM. I had nearly given up because having owned virtually every palm hand held since the palm V and a couple of phones as well. My last(current) palm is a lifedrive which I have nothing but contempt for.

So, here is what I have learned:

You can sync it with a mac using Missing Sync. Since my iphone is my primary pim gadget, I just have the calendar and contacts overwritten from the desktop.

My astraware games work great. The two programs that I am most thrilled about are Handyshopper and Splash money. I have not yet tried to sync splash money, but I am so thrilled to have the checkbook app back(It was dog slow on the lifedrive and it drove me nuts). Also, after four years of working on my grocery list, I am thrilled to have that back too, plus the list capability. Lastly, ereader works and with over 200 ebook purchased in the past 3-4 years, I was worried about losing them, or at least access to them.

Three programs have not worked so far:

Oxford dictionary v.1
Pennovate Notes and CalenNotes. Since the screen is so fine I cannot write that small anyway.

RE: N800
Kathleen @ 11/27/2007 12:25:56 PM # Q
p.s. Access picked graffiti 1. Woo freaking Hoo!

RE: N800
mikecane @ 11/27/2007 2:25:58 PM # Q
>>>My last(current) palm is a lifedrive which I have nothing but contempt for.

Thank God! It's not just me! Even with the MicroDrive excised in favor of CF, it still sucketh greatly.

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ACCESS: I Can Has Amazon Kindle?

mikecane @ 11/29/2007 11:01:56 AM # Q
RE: ACCESS: I Can Has Amazon Kindle?
Poopie @ 11/29/2007 1:27:31 PM # Q
Kindle runs Linux, has enough storage... Could we see Kindle run other PalmOS apps? Seems the answer is yes.

http://arstechnica.com/journals/linux.ars/2007/11/20/linux-on-amazons-kindle-e-book-reader

Maybe a notepad/draw program? Handyshopper? A Calendar app that syncs with either Yahoo or Google calendar wirelessly? An interpreter for text-based Z-machine games?

USR Palm Pilot 1000 --> Palm Pilot Professional --> TRG SuperPilot --> Palm IIIc --> Palm V --> Palm M505 --> Palm M515 --> Tungsten T|2 --> Treo 600 --> LifeDrive --> iPhone

RE: ACCESS: I Can Has Amazon Kindle?
mikecane @ 11/29/2007 5:00:49 PM # Q
Oh noes!!! GarnetVM on Kindle!!

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ACCESS has a new PR-fluff out

SeldomVisitor @ 12/11/2007 6:28:58 AM # Q
-- http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=109&STORY=/www/story/12-10-2007/0004720233&EDATE=

Not clear it suggests a potential customer relationship, however.

RE: ACCESS has a new PR-fluff out
mikecane @ 12/11/2007 10:09:39 AM # Q
It suggests a pre-emptive strike against Nokia. Oh yeah: Die! Nokia! Die!!!

Reply to this comment

iPhone to kill ACCESS ALP OS

mikecane @ 12/18/2007 5:12:13 PM # Q
Apple Meets With DoCoMo, Softbank On Launching iPhone in Japan

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119796487684536435.html

iPhone worldwide dominance is inevitable.

Get in line, heathen.

Stop worshiping your button-heavy Treos.

And *especially* stop worshiping those damn Finns (DieNokiaDie!!!).

You have your orders. Now proceed.

Reply to this comment

Garnet VM Hot Sync on N800

mrtyshaw @ 6/16/2008 5:35:16 PM # Q
I followed all the instructions, typed in my desktop IP and have never been able to get VM to hot sync, aside from this it works fine...work
My Palm desktop is v,6.2 for Vista.

Help (please)


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