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Comments on: Sprint Announces Palm Pre Service Plans

Palm Pre Sprint PlansSprint and Palm have just concluded a media only webcast today. The event itself was more of a demo and repetition of what most enthusiasts already knew about the Pre since CES. No new information on features, a release date or pricing was shared. They only bit of new info was that Sprint talked a bit about what service and data plans would be available with the Pre at launch.

Sprint reps remarked that not all of the usual Sprint service plans will be available for the Palm Pre. Sprint will structure the plans tailored for individuals, families and businesses. Sprint will primarily be pushing their simply everything plan which includes an unlimited voice and data package for $99 a month.

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'Families' definition?

alanh @ 3/12/2009 2:15:53 PM # Q
Right now, I've got a Treo with 450 minutes and unlimited data, with my parents on dumb-phones with shared minutes on Alltel.

How many lines does that Family plan include? Would the secondary phones also be Pres?

-alan

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one other revelation

Ed Lin @ 3/13/2009 12:09:07 AM # Q
They forgot to mention the other revelation at the webinar that has most non-Palm-fan blogs and the press now pessimistic about the Pre. That webOS will be capable of only multitasking 4 applications at once comfortably and will run only "casual" web-type games... Why PIC doesn't also mention that shows how everyone in the Palm community is enchanted with the Pre, including until the "4 app multitasking" revelation, myself. Let's see, 4 apps multitasking. That's 1) email, 2) IM, 3) web, 4) music, 5) fail. Hardly leaves room for any real multitasking really.
RE: one other revelation
VastheGreek @ 3/13/2009 4:37:16 AM # Q
Sorry to ask this...but where did you read about the only 4 app multi-tasking limitation?
Thanks
-========-
IIIxe -> TT -> TX
RE: one other revelation
jca666us @ 3/13/2009 4:41:37 AM # Q
>That webOS will be capable of only multitasking 4 applications at once
>comfortably and will run only "casual" web-type games...

Multitasking 4 webapps? No multitasking of compiled apps. because there is no "proper" SDK.

>Why PIC doesn't also mention that shows how everyone in the Palm
>community is enchanted with the Pre, including until the "4 app
>multitasking" revelation.

What I find humorous is how certain individuals chided Apple for their *initial* locked down approach, yet until webOS is released, "road tested", debugged, and stabilized, we won't see these limitations lifted.

Palm may be good, but even they can't produce 100% bug-free code.

>Let's see, 4 apps multitasking. That's 1) email, 2) IM, 3) web, 4) music, >5) fail.

You'll also need the phone app running in the background, otherwise how would you ever get a call? Unless of course this "4 multitasking apps" limit excludes the phone app.

>Hardly leaves room for any real multitasking really.

Sounds like typical Palm marketing - promise the sky and deliver a beta product.

RE: one other revelation
SeldomVisitor @ 3/13/2009 4:49:48 AM # Q
No, the first post is not correct.

What the Palm guy said is that 4 to 5 applications is all one can run before it gets "unwieldy". I believe the Pre can "run" (if you want to call moving molasses "run") as many "applications" as the memory can take.

However, the actual User Interface Fact that 4 to 5 applications is all one might WANT to run on the Pre (or any other mobile device, for that matter) certainly reinforces decisions made by certain OTHER manufacturers about "multitasking", eh?

And, of course, if 4 or 5 applications is all one WANTS to run on the Pre then that shazamm "card"-based user interface literally is for show - 4 or 5 miniature cards could EASILY fit on the Pre's display at one time...

I wonder if Palm is going to "clarify" his remarks...

RE: one other revelation
bhartman34 @ 3/13/2009 7:54:10 AM # Q
I think a clarification is in order. Four or five applications running in total is different than four or five cards being on the screen. To take one example: SMS and IM are combined on the Pre, so while you might have one card, it's running two apps. And there are other apps (e.g., the music controls and player) that use the dashboard, rather than cards, most of the time, so you have to keep that in mind, too.

I think how many app cards one would want to run at once is going to depend on what the apps are. I can't see a lot of reason to run more than 4 apps at once, but it depends on how things are set up. However, the notion that you're not going to be able to have the Web, email, and IM running at the same time as you're playing music is silly. In fact, if memory serves, they demonstrated these things working together when the phone was demoed at CES.

RE: one other revelation
palmato @ 3/13/2009 9:18:12 AM # Q
I may be wrong, but it may depend on how many instances of webkit are actually running. If there's only one for all open cards then there's (almost) no limit on the number of applications. On the hand if each card gets it's own instance of webkit, then the memory (and resources usage in general) will fix the limit. And 4-5 might be a good guess.

-------------
Hey Admin: Why do we have to keep two profiles?

RE: one other revelation
bhartman34 @ 3/13/2009 9:43:16 AM # Q
I may be wrong, but it may depend on how many instances of webkit are actually running. If there's only one for all open cards then there's (almost) no limit on the number of applications. On the hand if each card gets it's own instance of webkit, then the memory (and resources usage in general) will fix the limit. And 4-5 might be a good guess.

I see what you're saying, but I can't imagine why each card would get its own instance of WebKit. The way the app structure works, I don't think there's a need for it. An app can have more than one card, after all. The only way I could see WebKit needing more than one instance is if it couldn't be adapted to the card model (which I kind of doubt).

From what I've gleaned from the comments here, the limitation will come into play if you have more than one card open for Webkit. If there is a 5 card limit, then it doesn't really matter how many instances of Webkit are running. If you have 2 Webkit cards, you have three more slots for open cards (assuming the 5 card limit stands). That means you can have one program using 5 cards, or 5 programs using one card each, or any combination of the two.

My point in the earlier post was that # of cards != # of apps you can have running at once, because there's the opportunity for dashboard apps and background apps using the notification area.

RE: one other revelation
SeldomVisitor @ 3/13/2009 11:34:42 AM # Q
I'm confused why there is any confusion here - the Palm guy demoing the Pre at that "webinar" was unambiguous with what he said - 4 to 5 applications (and he was discussing those in the context of cards) is about it before the set becomes "unwieldy" even though you can run as many "applications" (*) as will fit in memory.

He noted that "application" was really "web page" with this device.

I imagine quite a few web pages can be simultaneously stored in - what is it? - 8 gigabytes...

RE: one other revelation
anika200 @ 3/13/2009 11:53:42 AM # Q
I fail to see how this is important at all. Why do you need to run more than 4 or 5 apps anyway. Does the iphone or blackberry multitask? These devices seem to do fine without it. Can you talk on the phone and have music playing and be using the keyboard to email and be sending data to a blog? I doubt that would be much fun even if you could do it.
RE: one other revelation
hkklife @ 3/13/2009 12:28:55 PM # Q
We need to define exactly what is an app or a separate instance. For example, does the Pre's WebOS telephony stack count as a background process or a running app? If you put it in "airplane" mode can you have more stuff running? What if you have all radios on simultaneously?

I honestly think the whole thing is being overblown. I'd rather have rock-solid stability & blinding speed (like POS users had years ago) for running 1-3 apps at a time than have a veritable stack of cards onscreen and flicking through all of them. I think that the combination of the brute strength of the TI processor/chipset/256mb RAM in the Pre will be more than sufficient enough for any general task and certainly better than the bloated, sluggish FrankenGarnet & WinMob pigs out there nowadays.

If anything, WebOS' lack of optimization around the hardware may handicap the Pre's performance more than anything else.
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

RE: one other revelation
SeldomVisitor @ 3/13/2009 12:47:29 PM # Q
The "browser" can (does?) run each card (window?) as a (Linux) process. That is, a (child) browser instance executes the page's HTML/Javascript/etc. I can imagine quite a few of these can be instantiated.

The user interface becomes "unwieldy" when more than 5 cards are manipulatable (accroding to the Palm guy demoing the Pre - YMMV).

There undoubtedly are OTHER type of processes (like the database handler, etc) that "don't count" w.r.t. the "unwieldy" comment.

RE: one other revelation
twrock @ 3/13/2009 7:50:49 PM # Q
SeldomVisitor wrote:
What the Palm guy said is that 4 to 5 applications is all one can run before it gets "unwieldy".

Oh I see. So it's similar to Windows OS in that respect. Most everyone should feel right at home.


"twrock is infamous around these parts" (from my profile over at Brighthand due to my negative 62 rep points rating)

RE: one other revelation
twrock @ 3/13/2009 8:04:46 PM # Q
hkklife wrote:
I honestly think the whole thing is being overblown. I'd rather have rock-solid stability & blinding speed (like POS users had years ago) for running 1-3 apps at a time than have a veritable stack of cards onscreen and flicking through all of them.

Yeah, what he said.

Seriously though, why would you want to keep every little apps running in the background and have to flick through a gazillion cards every time you wanted to open it? Are there that many apps that benefit from the ability to run in the background on a mobile device? Don't get me wrong; there is a place for multi-tasking on a handheld device. I would like that ability. I just don't see how "4-5 apps before it gets unwieldly" is really worth mentioning. (Cue up that "Everything's amazing, nobody's happy" video clip.)

From my playing around with TEAL OS, I concluded that I was likely going to be just as efficient using a Garnet launcher as the new webOS launch/flick/slide/whatever system. YMMV, but I don't see how this is a big deal.



"twrock is infamous around these parts" (from my profile over at Brighthand due to my negative 62 rep points rating)

RE: one other revelation
SeldomVisitor @ 3/14/2009 3:18:04 AM # Q
> ...So it's similar to Windows OS...

Yes, just like I said up there:

>>> "...the actual User Interface Fact that 4 to 5 applications is all one
>>> might WANT to run on the Pre (or any other mobile device, for that
>>> matter)..."

RE: one other revelation
twrock @ 3/14/2009 5:02:46 AM # Q
(I wasn't talking about Windows "Mobile".)

"twrock is infamous around these parts" (from my profile over at Brighthand due to my negative 62 rep points rating)
RE: one other revelation
mikecane @ 3/14/2009 8:41:34 AM # Q
>>>(I wasn't talking about Windows "Mobile".)

Man, the Pre *has* to be better than XP SP3++ on a 1.8GHz Celeron!! You don't know Hell until you have my desktop PC! Die Microsoft Die!

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Sprint plans

palmit @ 3/13/2009 7:50:19 AM # Q
I like that Sprint has different levels of voice plans with unlimited data for the Pre. I dont need unlimited voice with a phone and like the idea of having a choice.
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Huh? Sprint Plans

mikecane @ 3/13/2009 4:50:14 PM # Q
>>>450 minutes for $69/month, or 900 minutes for $89/m

I don't understand why anyone would go for those plans. Where's the data in them? If all you want are voice minutes, why bother even getting a Pre?

Where's Gekko to step in here with some billing sanity?

RE: Huh? Sprint Plans
abosco @ 3/13/2009 11:18:01 PM # Q
All plans contain unlimited data & text. The difference is the voice plan.

Try to keep up, old man.
-Bosco
m105 -> NX70v -> NX80v -> iPhone -> iPhone 3G

RE: Huh? Sprint Plans
SeldomVisitor @ 3/14/2009 3:39:23 AM # Q
Unmentioned were the fee(s) for the Synergy et al services that Palm mentioned a few times in one of their latest SEC filings:

== "...Our Palm webOS and related service offerings rely on the transmission
== of business-critical, proprietary and confidential information for customers ..."

== "...We will transmit and store a large volume of personal information in the
== course of supporting the Palm webOS products and related service
== offerings..."

== "...Despite frequent testing of the scalability of our Palm webOS service
== offerings in a test environment, the ability of our Palm webOS service
== offerings to scale to support a substantial increase in the number of users
== in an actual commercial environment is unproven..."

and most clearly:

== "...The Palm webOS service offerings represents a new service to
== consumers that we have not provided before..."

Do ya think that's gonna be free?

RE: Huh? Sprint Plans
mikecane @ 3/14/2009 8:40:04 AM # Q
>>>Try to keep up, old man.

I'll beat you to death even when I don't have my own teeth anymore, you punk.

Let's see if iPhone OS 3.0 requires all new hardware. What would that mean for you, cost-wise?

RE: Huh? Sprint Plans
SeldomVisitor @ 3/14/2009 8:48:08 AM # Q
> ...Let's see if iPhone OS 3.0 requires all new hardware...

Ah - so you think it's possible the presentation on Tuesday will include a

== "Oh, and one more thing..."

part, too, where iPhone 3.0 is presented!

RE: Huh? Sprint Plans
abosco @ 3/14/2009 9:15:16 AM # Q
mikecane wrote:
Let's see if iPhone OS 3.0 requires all new hardware. What would that mean for you, cost-wise?

Apple has about 15 million iPhone users. I think it would be a very stupid move to introduce software that now alienates those people unless they upgrade a device that may have been purchased only a few months ago.

Also, I doubt they would bill the announcement as iPhone OS 3.0 if it requires new hardware. Apple focuses on its strong point. Presenting OS 3.0 without backwards compatibility is a huge weakness. Instead, they would show off the new hardware along with the new software, and a side-note would be no upgrades. Therefore, it is pretty obvious to me that new hardware is coming, but not required for OS 3.0. Some apps will require the newest hardware, just like some apps require an iPhone 3G for GPS or those that can't use the Touch.

Also, I'm stupid, so I'll probably buy the next hardware upon its release.
-Bosco
m105 -> NX70v -> NX80v -> iPhone -> iPhone 3G

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