Comments on: Apple Passively Warns on iTunes Syncing

iSync is the preferred way for 3rd parties to sync and there's nothing stopping pre users from copying media files from their iTunes directory to the pre.

why would palm exploit the hole to allow iTunes syncing? it gives them free press for a short time - that's all.

palm knew apple would plug this hole eventually.

jca666us wrote:
why would palm exploit the hole to allow iTunes syncing? it gives them free press for a short time - that's all.

I'm not even sure this is a "hole", per se. All the Pre does is set a metatag that announces itself as an iPod. (And it doesn't do it on the root hub, so if Apple really wanted to, they could've prevented this years ago.)

I agree with others that there doesn't seem to be a risk for Palm here. There's no reason for Apple to bother blocking the Pre.

Apple actually benefits from the Pre's access to iTunes. The Pre can read non-DRM'd AAC, so anyone using the Pre can buy non-DRM'd songs from iTunes. Why would Apple want to stop that? Is there anyone on the planet who's never heard of an iPod before (outside of maybe the jungles of sub-Saharan Africa)? Someone who buys a Pre isn't going to turn around and return it just because it doesn't sync with iTunes. If iTunes was a decisive factor for them, they'd have an iPod or iPhone already.

abosco wrote:
On the contrary, I think that allowing the Pre to sync with iTunes gives people subscribing to the Apple ecosystem an alternative. Apple doesn't care about song sales. They publicly state that they barely break even on the iTunes store. But it increases sales of that oh-so-profitable complementary good, iPods. If people can buy songs and sync it to their Pre, Apple is not benefitting from that.

But someone who buys the Pre isn't buying it because of its ability to sync with iTunes. If what you want is iTunes integration, you buy an iPod or an iPhone, because they've been available for years.

in benchmarks the iPhone 3gs is faster than the Pre.

Pre stands for Pre-historic.

When will we see an sdk that supports more than just web apps for the Pre? 2010, 2011???

OMG. Did your little mind create that on its own or did you have a lot of help?

Give me a frikkin break. The Pre hasn't been out for even a month and tinythinkers are carping in their usual tunnelheaded fashion.

webOS 1.x is not done. I've said it all along. I told Palm itself on Twitter I expected an OTA update this week, on Wednesday, to blunt the iPhone 3GS. I guess the debugging kept them going because they didn't get it out until Friday.

Still.

And all these eejits whining over the lack of SDK should look beyond playing with themselves and consider what's most likely happening in the real world of people who actually *do* things:
http://pdnblog.palm.com/2009/06/an-update-on-the-early-access-program-and-the-sdk/#comment-1491

What is hugely funny is that the full potential of webOS won't even be *glimpsed* until the final SDK is out there. So all these eejits talking about how webOS has nothing to offer will look like the eejits they really are in a few months. Keep a list of the eejits so you know who to ignore in the future.

Freak, we know what the SDK won't be able to handle - anything of reasonably high performance - you do know the difference between HTML/Javascript and binary applications, right?

>We know already that 3D games will be a challenge - although perhaps not
>as much of one as people might think, given recent demonstrations of
>HTML5's capabilities: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uofWfXOzX-g

As usual Freak, you really pull this stuff out of your butt without thinking.

The O3D demo is running under desktop Safari (and is available for Mac & Windows) - not (yet) available for any mobile platforms - certainly not for Mojo - LOL!

Maybe in a few years when hardware performance improves we might see this - however this is no replacement for Palm's (current lack of) binary application support.

>We know that those who needed it have already been given deeper access
>- Classic, for instance, or Docs 2 Go.

And since the access granted has been minimal - we can safely speculate that much of it is subject to change (or has not been finalized).

Maybe in 6 mos. or a year we'll see a proper SDK - but it's not there now.

>So what's your beef?

No beef, just making a statement to see how long it took to set you off - not long. You're such a Palm apologist, it's not even funny.

Such as? You keep saying this, but without citing any specific examples. Funny, that.

If you going to try and argue with all and sundry about this, the least you could do is not contradict yourself within the space of a few posts.

(By the way, it's perfectly possible for Palm to develop a Mojo API that handles video encoding, just as one already exists for decoding. webOS uses gstreamer, which is more than capable of it.)

Two things I've said before and I say them again:

-Regarding "whatever" Palm is going to release (like the SDK), just wait and see. All sorts of rubbish was spewed about what webOS was or wasn't going to be by all sorts of people who didn't know jack squat. Rubbish and FUD.

-WebOS isn't for everyone. If you want the coolest handheld gaming machine, go out and buy something else. What is so difficult about that to understand? Why does webOS have to be exactly what you want it to be before it can be considered an "great product"? Who appointed you "jello sheriff of the house"?

I agree with bhartman34: "If what you want is iTunes integration, you buy an iPod or an iPhone, because they've been available for years." Why, if iTunes integration is critical for you, wouldn't you just buy an iPod or iPhone? Just "buy into" Apple already and be done with it! Why are you even looking at the Pre or webOS? Is there something wrong with your iPhone or iPod that makes you want something else? Then go whine at Apple about it and maybe, just maybe, Steve Jobs will listen to you and do it your way. ;-)

(Disclaimer: If in reading the above post you somehow think I was speaking specifically to "you" and not just some hypothetical Palm-hater or Apple-loving fanboy, then all I can say is "if the shoe fits....")

Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?

jca666us said:

h.264 encoding - if the pre ever offers video recording...
...however it isn't possible TODAY!

http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/VideoRecording

Well whaddaya know. Turns out you were completely, utterly wrong! (Again!)

I'm shocked.

What are you trying to prove Freak?

Feel free to scroll back up this thread, but it went something like this -

*I originally asked what it was you thought couldn't be accomplished with webOS

*You named h.264 encoding, and SHOUTED that video recording was not possible TODAY, even though I'd already told you that gstreamer was more than capable of it.

Tim
Apologies in advance for all emoticons, LOLs, ROFLs, and any other form of depressingly annoying Internet shorthand that appears in my posts.
Treo 270 -> Treo 650 -> Treo 680 -> Centro

i agree with u 100% **** itunes

(1) iPod lock-in
(2) The music store

It can't possibly have anything to do with the software itself, because it stinks to high heaven and runs about as fast as a one-legged wombat on Valium.

No. (You idiot). "iPod lock-in" means that the iPod syncs natively with iTunes and only iTunes. It's what everybody uses because everybody has iPods.

By the way, how's that Apple-Palm lawsuit going?

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9134514

I believe a few of my words were taken out of context within the interview and/or they misinterpreted my comments about "some users" being disppointed and wrote that *I'd* be disappointed. I could give a rat's arse about iTunes and the Pre and, like Freak said, would gladly use something like DBPower Amp, WinAmp or even Windows Media Player over iTunes. My point of contention isn't with music manager software in general, but rather the sluggish, bloated pig that is iTunes under Windows. And I will still buy physical CDs or MP3s from Amazon vs. from iTunes whenever possible.

Back on topic: I agree with jca666us in that the whole situation should have been handled better from the start. Palm should have either just ignored iTunes entirely OR tried to come up with a "real" solution instead of the current fingers-crossed, "it may get broken any day now" generic iPod method.

Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

freak you inbred hillbilly - iPods can also sync with winamp.

blackberry does a media sync with iTunes - how can they do it without pissing off apple and palm can't?

easy blackberry didn't come up with a hack. palm did and they'll get burned by it.

It's what everybody uses because everybody has iPods.

apple has zero obligation to inform anyone if and when they flip the switch as it won't affect their customers.

palm has the obligation to THEIR CUSTOMERS to not put half-assed hacks in place and advertise them as features.

Apple doesn't owe Palm anything.

Let's take this slowly - in a way you can understand:

>The Blackberry media sync does not integrate fully with iTunes either.

Neither does the Pre with its itunes hack - neither does Nokia's method too. The point is - like the point on your head - that blackberry and nokia are doing their media sync in a way that doesn't piss off apple. Palm has the Pre misidentifying itself as an ipod in order to sync non-DRM'ed files with itunes - it's a first class hack - but a hack nonetheless.

My objective in mentioning winamp's ability to sync with the ipod is to tear down your assinine assumption that you're locked down to itunes and/or ipod. There are other options and methods I didn't mention - regardless, you're only locked in - if you choose to be.

Play word games all you want, but it doesn't give your statements any more validity.

Of greater importance - since this is a palm site - is Palm pissing on their customers.

If Palm gave a crap about Pre owners - they would have attempted to negotiate with Apple to license the ability to sync with itunes.

They would have used methods that weren't little more than hacks.

Obviously Palm thought this was a "must have" feature - otherwise, why implement it - and why advertise it?

Palm is obviously desperate - however they should have developed their own sync software instead of hacking their way into another company's software.

When Pre users go to use itunes and it (eventually) craps out - it's not Apple's fault, it's Palm's - for trying to give their users (what they consider) desirable features on the cheap - using half-assed hacks.

Palm only did this to get some cheap advertising - "like the iphone, it also works with itunes".

Let's take this slowly

I've got a better idea: let's not. Ever again. Ugh.

The Pre store?! For music? It's the *Amazon MP3 Store*.

Mike instead of nitpicking and wordsmithing, try actually discussing the issue he raised.

Well now you're just "nitpicking."

Or, truly, picking *on* a nit.

Next!