SanDisk Releasing Zire 71 Wi-FI SD Card
After well over a year of delays, SanDisk is close to releasing a SDIO Wi-Fi card for a Palm OS handheld, however the new card will only work with the palmOne Zire 71.
TomsNetworking reports, SanDisk says existing SD WiFi cards can't be used in the Zire 71, even with the new card's drivers, due to hardware changes that were made in the newer version card. The discontinued Zire 71 is the only model that SanDisk has managed to get to work—no thanks to the folks at PalmOne. According to SanDisk, Zire 72's have a driver problem that prevents them from working with pretty much any card requiring true SDIO capability—although memory cards work fine. SanDisk says it would like to support more PalmOS devices, but to date, PalmOne has not released a patch to correct this problem either publically or to SanDisk.
The card was first announced for Palm OS devices in January 2003 with a March 03 release. In May 03, SanDisk pushed the release back until the fall. In August the company released the card, but only with drivers for Windows Mobile devices. In November, the date was again delayed until December and it was later announced that it would finally ship sometime in late Q2 2004.
The new Wi-Fi card should be available in stores in late June/July for $99 USD. The company has also confirmed that the recently announced WiFi and memory combo SD card will not be compatible with Palm OS devices.
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RE: It's about time.
RE: It's about time.
One Palm to rule them all!
RE: It's about time.
-->Visor Deluxe-->Palm m125-->Palm m505-->Ipaq 1945-->Tungsten E-->Zire 21 (cheap and fits my needs :)
RE: It's about time.
Okay, Sandisk, don't shame me.
Now I might be considered "fortunate" that I have the only compatible palm PDA for this card, Zire 71.
My plan circa autumn 2003: buy Wifi card, continue to use in next PDA.
My plan circa spring 2004: Nice Zire 72...dual wireless when Sandisk releases the Palm drivers, buy Wifi card, later use in Zire 72.
Now something like this? I don't think so. Not with an aging PDA which I would soon abandon for another. Maybe I could get by with just bluetooth in a new palm since my new PowerBook has it.
Not Sandisk's Fault - it's PalmSource's!
So anyway, your statement should be that Pa1mOne isn't doing anything to help the situation, not SanDisk, who would love to get all the Palm sales they can and redesigned this card to be low enough power to work in Palms that don't supply enough power to the SDIO slot (and is inarguably a bigger market than for PPC's since most of those already WiFi built in anyway).
RE: Trophyofgrace
One Palm to rule them all!
RE: It's about time.
-->Visor Deluxe-->Palm m125-->Palm m505-->Ipaq 1945-->Tungsten E-->Zire 21 (cheap and fits my needs :)
RE: It's about time.
-->Visor Deluxe-->Palm m125-->Palm m505-->Ipaq 1945-->Tungsten E-->Zire 21 (cheap and fits my needs :)
What about Tungsten E ??
RE: What about Tungsten E ??
RE: What about Tungsten E ??
T|E has a marginally slower processor, slightly smaller battery, twice the memory, a USB connection vs. Zire 71's "universal" connection, a better included stylus (irrelevant to discussion)... all in a thinner case. The screen appears the same though. It may be likely that a different chipset was used.
RE: What about Tungsten E ??
Why would Palm be reluctant to have 3rd party Wi-Fi cards?
It doesn't make sense to me.
TMann
RE: Why would Palm be reluctant to have 3rd party Wi-Fi cards?
Is it technically impossible? Or is there some marketing reason for not doing so?
TMann
RE: Why would Palm be reluctant to have 3rd party Wi-Fi cards?
1. Palm doesnt seem to put alot of effort into supporting the SDIO spec... sure they say the devices are compatible, but there isnt that much SDIO hardware out there with palm drivers in the first place, so I think they kinda drop the ball on making SDIO work correctly on their devices. Hell, a couple of their devices have even had problems reading memory cards, remember the original TT anyone?
2. IMO this is the bigger reason... OS6 completely reimplements the OS wireless support, with good support for multiple wireless standards being active at once, better multitasking model for drivers, etc. so I think they might be going... we will just live with the shortcomings for now, because cobalt fixes them anyway... but its taken alot longer than I thought before a cobalt device sees the light of day.
That said, I still like palms hardware, I just wish they would get a cobalt device out the door.
RE: Why would Palm be reluctant to have 3rd party Wi-Fi card
Here you have the link to the most important part.
http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=6879#95025
If you are interested on some details, go read the whole thread and the links provided along it.
I warn you: it is a long and painful read.
Palm SD Bluetooth card drivers? Get 'em right here, folks!
Is it technically impossible? Or is there some marketing reason for not doing so?
TMann
The (heavily censored) thread described above suggested a reason why the drivers weren't released a while ago. You'll have to decide for yourself who is telling the truth and who is lying. Ask around + read about the driver issue - you'll find the answers. And it ain't pretty.
RE: Why would Palm be reluctant to have 3rd party Wi-Fi card
I *wrote* this at the end of my previous post, but deleted it because I didn't want to re-start the stupid war. Anyway, looks like it would be informative, so I'm writing it now:
[about the long and painful thread] To make it even nicer, some of the posts by a particular poster were deleted. He would say that that was because he Knows the Truth that we lesser beings are not supposed to know and so he is censored. However, the rest of the world would surely not agree and just say that he was such an obnoxious pain in the a55.
Now, go judge for yourselves - if you really feel like.
(Facey, looks like you finally followed one of my links and dared to read what Mr. Combee had to say about the subject. Nice. Now, let's only *suppose* that he finally tells us that he has talked with someone who should know, and definitively the drivers don't exist, as anybody would guess. Would you then accept that you were, erm, not right?
And what if he doesn't answer? Will you say then that you were right anyway?
Just curious... :)
Frosty: If Combee denies the SD Bluetooth drivers exist...
I know what I know from my "sources".
You, on the other hand know... nothing.
RE: Why would Palm be reluctant to have 3rd party Wi-Fi card
That's all I'm going to say.
--
Ben Combee
http://palmos.combee.net - PDA programmer weblog
Why Palm decided to HOSE customers on the SD Bluetooth
That's all I'm going to say.
As usual, you're a class act, Ben. I trust by now you've learned the truth behind the SD Bluetooth drivers. (I was surprised to hear you didn't know the story already even though you only recently came over from Metrowerks.) Maybe not actually working in Milpitas has shielded you from hearing about this kind of c r a p.
Anyway, I'd suggest you refrain from commenting further about this issue unless the drivers are actually issued.
By the way, I hope you have made alternate career plans since leaving Metrowerks. Palm is entering implosion mode and PalmSource's stock is tanking rapidly (closed at $15.75 yesterday and will probably be below $10 before long http://finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=PSRC and http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=PSRC&d=t). The upcoming quarterly statement is quite tragic and the company is probably going to start another round of layoffs. Talk to Gavin if you don't believe me. Be careful, Ben. It would be a shame to see you get burned as well.
RE: Why would Palm be reluctant to have 3rd party Wi-Fi card
Surely that's because I have no insider contacts.
What remains to be seen is whether YOU have them, and whether THOSE (hypothetical) contacts have any (reliable) info.
Because, you know, it's really hard to believe in someone that, when minimally pressed to reason any one of his (supposedly existing) points goes into a hysterical burst of insults, postulates and unverifiable predictions that of course only further your point.
Meanwhile, like traditional honest-to-Dog future tellers, you seem unable to predict things that really do happen - like the Zire WiFi card. In fact about 3 weeks ago you were postulating (again) that those cards would never appear, supposedly because of problems with the SDIO form factor. Heh. Interestingly, all evidence now points to PalmSource to be the guilty ones... in fact, I just found this post that looks like went unnoticed at the moment, but now looks quite genuine (as it concurs with what other people are now saying, two weeks later!)
http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=6846#94660
Put that together with what Mr. Combee had to say about the difficulty of drivers development on OS 5, and the picture gets somewhat clear:
http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=6879#95025
See? No postulates, no predictions, I just tried to gather facts from all over the place, and the final image looks like explaining some things. Let's see if it works better than your conspiracy theory + unaccountable insider info.
What I don't really understand is why are you THAT fixated about being censored because of the Truth you only Know. As if I (or the rest of the world) was praising Palm* for whatever! I think (and tell to anybody that would listen) that they have dug a pretty tomb for themselves by letting the OS get to this point of ... staleness, awkwardness. And, funny thing is, I've said that before - but for entirely different reasons. Remember when I said that releasing a T3-class device with a crippled & crippling OS like Palm OS 5 should be regarded as a crime?
RE: Why are "Jeff and Donna" regularly dumping Palm stock?
http://www.hoovers.com/palmone/--ID__60253,Page__1,Sort__D--/free-co-sec.xhtml
Jeffrey Hawkins dumps Palm stock:
http://www.hoovers.com/free/co/secdoc.xhtml?ipage=2850886&doc=0&attach=on
and again: http://www.hoovers.com/free/co/secdoc.xhtml?ipage=2841680&doc=0&attach=on
and again: http://www.hoovers.com/free/co/secdoc.xhtml?ipage=2834657&doc=0&attach=on
and again: http://www.hoovers.com/free/co/secdoc.xhtml?ipage=2820901&doc=0&attach=on
and again: http://www.hoovers.com/free/co/secdoc.xhtml?ipage=2809050&doc=0&attach=on
and again, and again....
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Donna Dubinsky dumps Palm stock:
http://www.hoovers.com/free/co/secdoc.xhtml?ipage=2847887&doc=0&attach=on
and again: http://www.hoovers.com/free/co/secdoc.xhtml?ipage=2839543&doc=0&attach=on
and again: http://www.hoovers.com/free/co/secdoc.xhtml?ipage=2830298&doc=0&attach=on
and again: http://www.hoovers.com/free/co/secdoc.xhtml?ipage=2818441&doc=0&attach=on
and again: http://www.hoovers.com/free/co/secdoc.xhtml?ipage=2806683&doc=0&attach=on
and again, and again....
IT GOES ON FOR A WHILE
Palm is making a big mistake
SanDisk speaks
dfsmurth @ 6/2/2004 8:57:24 PM
we would LOVE to offer palm support for SD Wi-Fi products. We have palm source rights to OS and have developed drivers for the OS - in its pure form. palmOne makes driver slot (SDIO host side driver) and netlib (networking files) modifications to the files in the OS and will NOT give access to the mods. This month SanDisk is releasing Zire 71 support but has had to hack the modified files for this device to accomplish this. SanDisk got all kinds of help from MSFT for their OS's and only obstacles from palmOne. This is Monty Python business logic.
I have told you repeatedly that Palm has the SD Bluetooth drivers, yet you prefer to believe otherwise. I even asked Ben Combee and Michael Mace to comment on the drivers on your behalf. The (usually chatty) Mr. Mace is suddenly silent and Mr. Combee is not allowed to comment. You do the math.
If the drivers did not exist, how could my contact have several Palms running SD Bluetooth cards flawlessly? Why has Michael Mace simply not popped up here and issued a statement saying there are no drivers? Simple. Because the drivers have been functioning for a long time. A LOOOOONG time. Palm purposely crippled the OS and it takes about a 5 KB update to add Bluetooth SDIO functionality back. A 5 KB patch. 5 f-ing KB!.
Ultimately, people have to weigh the evidence and decide for themselves. If enough people email Palm demanding the drivers, the update could be on their site by Monday. MONDAY. I think you're starting to see what I've said is the truth, but you're too embarassed to admit it.
Think about it, Frosty. Bluetooth implementation is NOT rocket surgery. Palm probably still has at least one intelligent person working for them. They built the OS. They have Bluetooth functionality in other models and the SDIO power requirements for Bluetooth aren't constraining. Do you really think Palm was unable to make SDIO Bluetooth part of their PalmOS 5 features? Surely even you can't believe that.
RE: Why would Palm be reluctant to have 3rd party Wi-Fi card
http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=6846#94437
Note the absence of evil plots in my self-answer, though it in fact would explain a number of things - while agreeing with known facts and with what Mr. Combee (for example) said.
Of course there's still need for external confirmation, since it's only a guess - however well-educated I think it to be. But for starters it does not ask for blind faith, does it?
I have told you repeatedly that Palm has the SD Bluetooth drivers, yet you prefer to believe otherwise.
Yes, I have this nasty habit of believing in what I can check ... rather than the evil secret plots that some anonymous chap rants about on some website.
I even asked Ben Combee and Michael Mace to comment on the drivers on your behalf.
(I already did this, but OK, let's play it again)
You *even* asked. Wow.
(that's it. Want once more?)
Now I'm gonna ask them if they killed JFK and why they want to sell us as livestock to the martians. And if they don't answer, then we will now for sure that they are guilty. OK?
The (usually chatty) Mr. Mace is suddenly silent
Chatty? I think I've seen him here... about 3 times on the last 5 months. Let's say once a month. Is that chatty?
If the drivers did not exist, how could my contact have several Palms running SD Bluetooth cards flawlessly?
I don't know. Too much booze?
Why has Michael Mace simply not popped up here and issued a statement saying there are no drivers? Simple.
Yes, I can imagine Michael Mace poppin' up here, saying "there are NO drivers" ... and you staying all calm and cool, gracefully apologizing for your rants... and we all departing as good friends, enriched by the information exchange...
...erm, no, I don't think so.
If I were him, I for sure would not even try getting into this kind of stupid catfight. After all, Palm* knowledge base is there to remind us that those drivers don't exist. You know, officially at least. (*wink, wink*)
Palm purposely crippled the OS and it takes about a 5 KB update to add Bluetooth SDIO functionality back. A 5 KB patch. 5 f-ing KB!.
Would you care to ellaborate on that, please? Because it sounds a bit absurd. Are you talking about a 5 KB driver? Or about a patch? If the latter, then we still need the drivers, and as Mr. Combee said, it's easy to develop drivers that only will work on a single device. So...?
(not that I can see much meaning to the "5KB" thing... what would change if it was 100 bytes or 2000 KB?)
Ultimately, people have to weigh the evidence and decide for themselves.
EXACTLY. Now, where's your evidence? Oh, I see, you can only offer lack of evidence. "No one says anything, so I am right".
If enough people email Palm demanding the drivers, the update could be on their site by Monday. MONDAY.
And if we raid the offices, we could get the drivers RIGHT NOW!! Get the torches! This is war!
My man, don't you think they must have been asked a number of times about those drivers? How many people would happily buy the card? How many would buy bluetooth-less Palms, knowing that the card is there when they feel like upgrading?
I think you're starting to see what I've said is the truth, but you're too embarassed to admit it.
Yeah, now even I am part of your proof.
Oh my Dog.
Think about it, Frosty. Bluetooth implementation is NOT rocket surgery.
This coming from the guy that writes "JAVA", says that Windows95/98 was perfectly stable and things got worse afterwards, does not know what BSD is nor what it has to do with Unix, and does not understand what wireless file sharing could be good for.
You still have not answered what I asked some time ago: have you ever used a compiler?
RE: Why would Palm be reluctant to have 3rd party Wi-Fi card
Let's just hope that the martians are not mean to their new livestock. Yuck!
Be happy. :)
RE: Why would Palm be reluctant to have 3rd party Wi-Fi cards?
But, if your wrong ...
Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
Of Course...
....and I HAVE A Zire 71.
The ONLY reason I did so was for the Wi-Fi, as I have a wireless network at home school and work.
Here I am, 400 dollars poorer...
I'm ticked now.
RE: Of Course...
You can have it!
Gimme my TH55 any day by comparison.
RE: Of Course...
Unless... Anyone know how to override copy protection (which may be illegal) to transfer pre-programmed MMC cards to Memory stick?
I am sure if you want to read more tirades on Mem stick, go to the Sony suspension of clies article, there must be many there. Some find it menial, others find it everything.
RE: Of Course...
RE: Of Course...
In my case, I was upgrading from another Clie, so it was all good.
It was Palm's lousy workmanship that drove me to Sony. I had worse feelings over that.
RE: Of Course...
RE: Of Course...
I think the point is the $400 that did not grow on a tree, not the specs.
Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: Of Course...
One more model...
I would like to thank SanDisk for making wifi on the TC possible.
The Federation for the Responsible Use of Acronyms
Sar´casm
The sarcasms of those critics who imagine our art to be a matter of inspiration.
- Sir J. Reynolds.
-----------------------------------------------
clueless:
adj. 1. not providing any clue.
2. completely uninformed or unaware; hopelessly ignorant; utterly bewildered.
3. You.
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It's about time.