Palm Uses Mace in Microsoft Case
In testimony today in the penalty phase of the anti-trust case against Microsoft, PalmSource's Chief Competitive Office, Michael Mace, said that Microsoft prevented Palm from entering the VSIP, Visual Studio Integration Program, for two years, according to Reuters. According to Mr. Mace, Visual Studio is the industry standard for developers and, by blocking Palm from the program, put the company at a serious disadvantage with enterprise developers.
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| Michael Mace |
Mr. Mace went on to say that Microsoft only stopped its stonewalling when it heard Palm would be testifying against it in the penalty phase of the anti-trust case.
"Microsoft sent us the contract only after we had documented clearly that there was no resource barrier within the Visual Studio team itself, that Microsoft had been using VSIP entry to get leverage over us in the .NET negotiations and after it was becoming clear that Palm was participating in the current court proceedings," Mr. Mace said.
Mr. Mace also brought up an email from Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates that ordered its developers to alter Microsoft products to ensure that Microsoft's "PDA will connect to Office in a better way than other PDAs even if that means changing how we do flexible schema in Outlook and how we tie some of our audio and video advanced work to only run on our PDAs."
He used this as evidence that Microsoft has already taken steps to insure that handhelds that don't run Microsoft's Pocket PC OS are at a disadvantage when working with Microsoft Office and other products, even if that means deliberately changing the applications.
Because of Microsoft's monopoly, in order for handhelds to work with desktop computers they have to work well with Microsoft Windows, Office, Exchange, Visual Studio, and others. There are no real competitors so there are no options for handhelds to turn to.
Whether the Palm executive should be testifying at all is still a source of controversy. Though Microsoft has already been found guilty of using its desktop operating system in illegal ways, the judgement against it was restricted to certain areas, mostly regarding Web browsers. The original judgement said nothing about handhelds.
Not surprisingly, Microsoft wants the penalties levied against it to be restricted to just the specific areas where it has been proven to be in the wrong.
However, the nine states that were part of the anti-trust case and haven't yet reached a settlement with Microsoft want the penalties to insure that Microsoft is prevented from misusing its desktop monopoly to gain unfair advantages in other areas, too, like handhelds.
U.S. District Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly has not yet made a ruling on whether she will consider penalties in areas not covered in the original trial.
Related Information:
- PIC: Palm Says Microsoft/DOJ Settlement Is Inadequate
- Microsoft: Visual Studio .NET Integration Program
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RE: infrared hotsync
http://makeashorterlink.com/?L60E2499
In Windows 2000 Microsoft changed the way infra red is handled. Windows 2000 no longer sets the IR port on your PC like a COM port anymore - the OS recognises the IR port, but does not assign a COM port to it. Palm software needs the IrCOMM protocol (a virtual COM port for IrDA) to do IR sync with a PC. Microsoft says they will not (and do not) support IrCOMM on Windows 2000.
What this means is that devices the devices that use infra red via the IRDA standard (like your Palm device and many newer cell phones like my Nokia 8210) can no longer communicate with a device running Windows 2000. This is, of course, mad, as the IRDA standard was developed to be exactly that: a standard that would enable a range of infra red devices to inter-operate. As the Palm HotSync Manager only supports COM ports, both the HotSync Manager won't let you hotsync via infra red, nor can other IR devices communicate with Windows 2000. Palm talks about it here but don't hold your breath in any way: http://www.palm.com/support/helpnotes/win2k.html
Microsoft will maintain that they have decided not to use an internationally agreed upon standard to prohibit Palm users syncing via IR with Windows (WinCE owners couldn't anyhow) but to enable their infra red file sharing bull**** (which can be implemented whilst still maintaining the IRDA standard). The 261million IRDA-enabled devices that will ship this year will not work with Windows 2000: I'm still awaiting Micro$oft's reasons for this decision.
You *may* find this Deja thread illuminating...where some guy says he got it working with his Ericsson with some workaround. Dunno about this - sounds a bit weird, but I don't wish to crush you totally.
---------------
I couldnt do infra red hotsyncs with my visor on winME. i can only transfer files
RE: infrared hotsync
RE: infrared hotsync
Microsoft does stuff like this all the time. They always break other peoples stuff and make them scramble to fix it while putting their competitors customer relations on the line. Same thing happened with Realnetworks..
RE: infrared hotsync
honestly, I might prefer digging around when I was younger but I really do miss being able to lay down my visor next to my notebook and press the hotsync button without having to carry around all those cables...
Mace...
His statements are puzzling. Palm apps such as Wordsmith and Docs to Go are already far superior to their PocketPC equivalents. The programmers for the other companies had no problems.
Well, it's obvious that Mace's boys in R&D and software development aren't as good as the programmers at Blue Nomad or other innovative Palm companies.
RE: Mace...
If Microsoft continues to get away with crap like this you can bet that sooner or later it that integration with non PocketPC will cease to be.
RE: Mace...
Tip DS
RE: Mace...
Large companies are the only ones who can afford PPC's so Microsoft has to do everything it can to gain any advantage in this area.
RE: Mace...
I have been working in Europe, Asia, and Austrilasia, on PDA developemtn, and all we develop for, now, is PPC, WAP, and the new .NET compact Framework.
All our Palm dev, and non MS devlopment has gone, no one wants it any more.
Some think this is bad, but hey, just put a new x-scale ppc next to a palm and then wonder.
Wait for the Mobile Gaming revolution from EA, doubtful they will support Palm too....
.NET
No sh*t. Of course MSFT will/should act in its own best interests. What kind of company negotiates terms advantageous to the other side??? Oh that's right, that'd be Palm - $10 for an OS anyone?
RE: .NET
That's why Microsoft caved the moment it heard this was going to be brought up in court. Microsoft's lawyers *knew* what it was doing was illegal.
RE: .NET
This isn't competition. It is malicious bullying of other companies and ultimately us, customers that will bear the brunt of Microsoft's excess. And if you are one of their fans (and probably owns a PPC), without fair competition from people like Palm, you will be stuck with WinCE 1.0 because they would not have to make their OS better. No need to.
To be fair, Microsoft CAN make great software but I don't like how they corner you and make you choose their way or the highway.
RE: .NET
RE: .NET
RE: .NET
My years may be off, but I don't think Palm is doing that bad in terms of updating their OS. Besides, everyone who is near Microsoft's touch has to worry about what Microsoft is doing, because they may be working to get rid of them, not with competition, but in ways that may not be fair. Hence the whole lawsuit. Duh.
RE: .NET
It would be very funny if the WinCE 5.0 will come out before Palm OS 6.0 the suppsedly Palm answer which would put WinCE nightmare behind. And incidentally, microsoft already seeking input for that itteration of the OS.
I wonder if it is fair comparing developmental speed of Server class OS to a desktop to PDA's
I mean there must be at least 1 order of magnitude difference in term of program lines between each. But than again I am not an OS hacker.
RE: .NET
With an OS that's about as modern as MS-DOS, stamp-sized screens, a C-based programming environment, and processors that run at 1/5th the speed of all others, Palm is hardly an innovator. That's OK: Palms are well-designed and useful. But to call them "innovative" is silly.
RE: .NET
RE: .NET
RE: .NET
As a person who was a lead for an IT helpdesk for several years in a corporation of over 15,000 employees, I can flatly say that WinCE and it's latest rehash have yet to prove themselves reliable enough for corporate use. Our support staff refuses to support PPC because it is so problematic. Palm OS is supported for all our locations, despite us being a Microsoft-based operation.
RE: .NET
Then please keep your "knowledge" to yourself, rather than clouding peoples' perceptions with unreliable and likely incorrect information.
Thanks
Nice move
Business is war and there are a million legal ways to make your rival live miserable. The world is a big place, there is always Asia and Europe to pick up fight.
RE: Nice move
It seems
RE: It seems
It's a sucker games.
------------------
from AP,
........
Microsoft also pointed on Thursday to documents indicating that Palm, the handheld computer firm, submitted written changes to the states' proposed penalties that would benefit Palm.
........
The next witness in the case was Michael Mace, an executive at Palm. Mace said that Microsoft, using its dominance on the computer desktop, could make it difficult for Palm computers to link with desktop computers running Windows.
In its cross-examination of Mace, Microsoft said Palm was also intimately involved with the states' case. Microsoft obtained internal Palm documents showing that the handheld firm submitted written changes to the states' penalties that would benefit Palm.
Palm enjoys a huge advantage over Microsoft's competing handheld operating system in both total users and applications available for the product.
To illustrate his worries, Mace cites a 1999 e-mail from Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates suggesting that Microsoft "tie some of our audio and video advanced work to only run on our (handheld computers)."
Mace did not make any specific allegations that Microsoft has crippled Palm's business.
Mace also said that Microsoft set "dramatic restrictions" on Palm's effort to be included in Microsoft's upcoming Internet services product. That service, called Microsoft.NET, would use the Internet to help users communicate regardless of their location or what devices they use.
Despite those complaints, Palm asked in October 2001 to join Microsoft.NET on simpler terms, along with an investment in the handheld computer company, according to Mace. Lawyers close to the case said Palm asked for $50 million.
Mace said Palm asked for the investment "since Microsoft had paid Apple a substantial sum of money in their agreement." Microsoft refused to give Palm the money, but the companies eventually came to a deal.
Mace alleges that Microsoft's tactics were an attempt to block Palm's development, and Microsoft intentionally discriminated against Palm because of their competition in handheld devices.
RE: It's a sucker games.
Now really who was the anonymous investor is it TI? or Microsoft? shsss......this start to read like soap opera.
RE: It's a sucker games.
Braun attempted to show that Palm was motivated to participate in the case in an effort to undermine competition in the hand-held market by Microsoft. The software giant makes a handheld operating system, Pocket PC 2002, which runs on hardware of Palm's rivals.This is from CBSBraun pointed to an internal Palm document drafted last fall that detailed proposed changes to the states' proposed remedies.
Mace denied that the measures would give Palm an unfair edge over Microsoft.
"They prevent us, sir, from being discriminated against," Mace said.
RE: It's a sucker games.
"Mace said Palm asked for the investment "since Microsoft had paid Apple a substantial sum of money in their agreement." Microsoft refused to give Palm the money, but the companies eventually came to a deal."
What !? M$ need to pay you because they paid Apple !? is this starting to not make any sense or what. Microsoft Settled a bunch of lawsuits Apple filed against Microsoft when the investment was made. Why should M$ offer you money for joining the .net program !? it's not like they need to settle anything with you.
RE: It's a sucker games.
RE: It's a sucker games.
RE: It's a sucker games.
But the point is moot. .NET will be on the Palm OS. It was necessary for both companies. They were just jockeying for position.
RE: It's a sucker games.
then those Sales person will be like, Palm OS PDA has 70% of Market share, but if you want to run those .net applications you run on your desktop you'll need to get a Pocket PC.
No that will not be a nail in the coffin for .net, that is the other way around. I am pretty sure currently people that uses Palm to get on the net wirelessly is similiar to the amount of people that use Pocket PC to get on the web wirelessly or maybe less, I know I know Palm got a super duper 75% Market share over Microsoft, but just look at the people who buy palm's PDA, they are all buying it as a datebook only, but for PPC people are really buying it as a portable computing platform.
And just face it that 75% Palm market share will count for nothing, why !? because even Microsoft port .net to palm, I am pretty sure there's no way Microsoft could port .net to Palm that runs Dragon Ball 33 Mhz processor, so I am sorry if you look at it that way Palm OS PDA has 0% Market share according to .net's target audience.
RE: It's a sucker games.
RE: It's a sucker games.
RE: It's a sucker games.
The only way at this point that you can take advantage of .Net is with a handheld conencted wirelessly to a broad band network. SOAP is too big of a protocol to work on a non-3G cell phone or pager network. You really need a handheld set up on a wireless LAN running 802.11 at this point for .Net to even work.
As far as a 33Mhtz machine not being able to run .Net (aka web services), that is a load of crap. There are plenty of XML parsers already running just fine on the Palm OS, SOAP is based on XML, so I don't see what the huge jump is.
RE: It's a sucker games.
> any benefit to a non wireless handheld?
In a couple of years, there will be hardly any non-wireless handhelds. Adding wireless access makes as much sense as adding a modem to a PC, and for the same reasons.
Don't get me wrong, there will still be non-wireless PDAs. There will always be a market for something that costs <$40 and stores phone numbers. But those aren't what I consider a handheld computer.
RE: It's a sucker games.
You will get your .NET sychronization at every sync - think like AvantGo works. You will get your instructions via the Mother Ship in Redmond synced to your wired handheld. Follow the instructions. See the Queen of Hearts.
- Manchurian Candidate.
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