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Opinion: Is the PDA Industry Losing Its Design Enthusiasm?

Guest Editor, Kent from PocketFactory, brings up an interesting opinion piece about buying a new PDA in today's market. Have PDA's as we know them lost that enthusiasm that created such aesthetic beauties as the Palm V? Read on for more.

Looking at today's offerings from PalmOne, it's not hard to see why the PDA industry has lost much of the enthusiasm that marked its early days. Palm PDAs have lost the classic look and feel that set them apart from other competing products on the market, particularly the Palm V form factor.

Take the Tungsten T5 for example. Though a decent looking product compared to other PDAs sitting on store shelves, it's just another nameless face in the crowd. The Tungsten line as a whole lacks the elegance that drove so many consumers and business professionals to covet the original Palm V, which wasn’t just a PDA..it was a status symbol.

Buying a PDA today is as boring as buying a pair of socks. The value proposition of mobile devices has certainly increased exponentially with introduction of new features, and we get far more bang for our buck now than ever before. But aesthetics have suffered dramatically as the PDA market has become commoditized. I haven't seen a PDA in recent years that really looked fashionable. Not since Sony’s departure anyway. We all had a good laugh at the Claudia Schiffer Palm V model, but I'd gladly take a Palm V that packed the same features of today's models into a similar form factor and slick looking design.

The Zire line is another example of lackluster design. Popular consumer PDAs of past generations like the Handspring Visor Deluxe sported fun designs and color options that allowed the consumer to personalize their PDA. When Handspring first introduced the Visor, people were buying these things like candy. Visor owners proudly flaunted their color choice to friends and fellow Visor enthusiasts. As trivial as color and style may be to some, it offered a great experience to consumers.

In its glory days, PDAs were much more than a piece of technology, they were a wearable fashion accessory; sleek, stylish, and infinitely cool. There is no better example of this same philosophy than the iPod. Has that product become so successful simply because it plays music? Of course not, its classic design has made it an icon….with an almost cult-like following that Palm devices once had. Those days are long gone for the PDA it seems.

PalmOne needs another homerun design that breaks molds and sets off a new trend in hardware design. Something that screams...cool! So far all we've seen are a bunch of dud designs that have the sex appeal of wet clay. Obviously just slapping an existing PDA into a more elegant design isn't necessarily going to propel PDAs back to growth. But it may reinvigorate a market in desperate need of excitement and relevance. The PDA market needs an iPod!

-Kent

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One exception

dnorton @ 2/8/2005 5:20:03 PM # Q
I think that there is one clear exception to your general view (of which I mostly agree)

Tapwave Zodiac

The Zodiac's form factor and design among other PDAs is sexy and unique.

RE: One exception
Foo Fighter @ 2/8/2005 5:27:05 PM # Q
Agreed, the Zodiac is very sleek looking. Unfortunately the Zodiac itself is a "love it or leave it" kind of mobile device.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com
RE: One exception
Altema @ 2/8/2005 6:08:56 PM # Q
Yes, the Zodiac is very cool, and agree with the love it or leave it opinions. I would get it myself, but it's not quite business oriented!

I don't think the V was the last one though... the M515 was very similar in form factor and was a very good value for a Dragonball device. I'm also biased towards the T3, not as sexy as the V, but much cooler based on the reactions I get; still causes meeting disruptions when I snick open to full screen and snap it onto the UT keyboard. Usually takes a few minutes to get the meeting back on topic.

I mourn the loss of design enthusiasm, can we use the T5 as the tombstone?

RE: One exception
jstevenson @ 2/8/2005 6:57:08 PM # Q
Agreed. A large, unadorned, plain looking tombstone is the T5. And yeah, I think the slider design of the T|T, T2, and T3 had something special. Great form factor not duplicated anywhere else. Maybe not as "sexy" as the V's and m5xx's (had both), but definitely something that stood out (in a good way) when it came out and remains unique.

RE: One exception
ackmondual @ 2/9/2005 1:34:22 AM # Q
PDA purchasing was very exciting for me recently.... T3 or Zod2... i sprung for the T3. A choice betw 2 very capable PDAs was what made it exciting, and not 2 that u were forced to pick b/c pOS has no other better choices while u're still not willing to give up pOS

[signature0]the secret to enjoying your job is to have a hobby that's even worse[/signature0]
[signature1]My PDAs: Visor --> Visor Neo (blue) --> Zire 71 --> Tungsten T3[/signature1]
RE: One exception
Sleuth255 @ 2/9/2005 10:24:43 PM # Q
Clicking my T3 open then twisting it to landscape mode to read emails in a coffee shop still gets looks....

Form = Function = Form = Function = Form = Function = Form =
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 2/10/2005 1:21:17 AM # Q
The two are parts of the whole. The Treo 600 and CLIE UX50 were the last significant designs (in terms of both form AND function) we've seen in the past two years.

The form is the function is the form is the function... ad infinitum™


******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

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Part of a bigger trend?

jstevenson @ 2/8/2005 6:46:14 PM # Q
I just wonder if the lack of "inspired design" is more a part of the death of the PDA as we know it. I'm on my 4th Palm device (a V, Vx, m505, and now a T|T2) and it's becoming pretty obvious to me that the PDA as we know it as an unconnected device is a dying breed. This could just be me or a subset of PDA users, but it seems like the direction is clearly towards Treo-like devices, i.e. converged cellular phone, PDA, pager, etc. And not just on the Palm side, but the Pocket PC world, too. I look at the new T|T5 and just don't think it offers much more than my T|T2. I think inspired design requires just what the name implies, inspiration, and there isn't anything inspiring left in the "traditional" PDA. Look to the Treo platform for inspiration.

RE: Part of a bigger trend?
mousky @ 2/11/2005 4:38:28 PM # Q
I don't quite understand how, on one hand, you can say that the PDA is a dying breed, but on the other hand you tell us to look at the Treo? The Treo IS a PDA. Plain and simple. I cannot understand why people categorize the Treo as something other than a PDA?

Gmail invites:

http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-eb40abce49-7596a94814-da043881c1
http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-eb40abce49-f4164f6017-df2d71ef33
http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-eb40abce49-e8d8370036-9cd6d18c99

I Am Canadian

http://mousky.blogspot.com
http://the-wastebasket.blogspot.com

RE: Part of a bigger trend?
jstevenson @ 2/14/2005 1:17:11 AM # Q
I think what I said was the PDA *as we know it*. The days of the standalone "unconnected" handheld are over. Yes, the Treo is a PDA, but not *quite* the same as the Palm Pilot of 10 years ago.

RE: Part of a bigger trend?
Ezra4no1 @ 2/14/2005 9:18:53 AM # Q
I agree.. The buzz which use to follow the PDA world has some how gotten lost. Their appeal just doesn't seem the same to the average folk and I don't know if design is all to blame.

In my line of work I see alot of Treo's and use them. I can honestly say the Treo is less of a PDA for what the Palm OS can do and has traditionaly done in the past for "real PDA users" than being just a pretty cool smartphone to the average and 1st time users of the Treo and it's OS (and I deal with hundreds of customers who use Treos). Even in my office where there's about 15 of use who use the Treo, I'd say about 14 of them barely use the Treo beyond, a phone, checking email, and surfing the internet. Now I don't know about you but that's pretty sad and in all reality doesn't even deserve to use the Palm OS if that's all people are going to do with the Treo. Any half decent smart phone could do the same and I think palmOne needs to Wake up and realize this. What is the Treo if it's not for the OS 1st? I think current PDA OEMs need to look to other markets and make the Palm OS work those areas as well if they are going to abandon standalone PDAs.

http://mypdacorner.blogspot.com/

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T3,

temp_user @ 2/8/2005 6:46:59 PM # Q
In my opinion, the most beautiful and elegant PDA was the T3, after Palm V.

The only official explanation I read regarding why they gave up the design is, the EX-CEO of Palmone thought, people didn't realise it could be stretched when they saw it on the shelves. Unbelievable isn't it?

T3 is a classic PDA already, in my opinon!


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Repeat of Apple

bigjarom @ 2/8/2005 7:43:14 PM # Q
This is just what happened to Apple in the non-Jobs era. The designs went utilitarian and people stopped caring. We need Steve Jobs to get to work on the Palm OS Newton. (the iPalm?)
RE: Repeat of Apple
LiveFaith @ 2/9/2005 2:59:29 AM # Q
Apple should just buy Palmsource at it's soon coming sub $5 price point and make the iPod PDA and the iFone with cobalt. Sell liscenses to PalmOne for the upcoming T6 design based on the Zire 31.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: Repeat of Apple
2xs @ 2/9/2005 3:34:35 PM # Q
ROFL !!! not the Palm IIIc ?

btw, great Article, Kent !!!

Reply to this comment

F Design! Give me FUNCTION!

Gekko @ 2/8/2005 9:32:47 PM # Q

Built-in WIFI, VGA, Multi-Tasking, Native Security, Bigger Clipboard, Graffiti 1 Option, Charger Light, Sound Recorder, REAL 256 MB Memory, Long-Life Battery, etc. etc. etc.



RE: F Design! Give me FUNCTION!
smap77 @ 2/8/2005 11:33:07 PM # Q
Yes, Yes. "Just give me one more feature than currently offered. I swear I'll be happy forever."

New uses will drive new forms and the technology will stay on par with the uses. Until people start using PDAs in some significantly different way they will continue to look the same--unless you subscribe to the General Motors philosophy of styling your way to sales. It worked well until the 80s, didn't it?

"Give me FUNCTION" also seems to neglect "beauty." I's submit that ugly cousins FUNCTION mostly the same, but they remain ugly.

RE: F Design! Give me FUNCTION!
Gekko @ 2/8/2005 11:42:00 PM # Q

Design/beauty and function do not have to be mutually exclusive.

Death comes to those companies that stand still.

The Palm apologists are the biggest fools second only to shareholders.



RE: F Design! Give me FUNCTION!
Jeffry @ 2/9/2005 1:19:56 AM # Q
... I don't want to carry a 1 pound PDA. This can be easily accomplished with the features you mentioned.

RE: F Design! Give me FUNCTION!
svrontis @ 2/9/2005 1:36:06 AM # Q
> The Palm apologists are the biggest fools second only to shareholders.

That's an interesting observation.

In case you hadn't noticed this is a 'Palminfocenter' - a website run BY Palm enthusiasts FOR Palm enthusiasts. Yet, you come here and use the word 'apologists' like it's some sort of pejorative. Well it isn't, not here.

All you have succeeded at doing is insulting us all, yet again.

I hope you will realise someday that insults are not generally productive when practicing the art of advocacy.

RE: F Design! Give me FUNCTION!
rsc1000 @ 2/9/2005 11:48:31 AM # Q
Geko works for MS

RE: F Design! Give me FUNCTION!
Masamune @ 2/11/2005 5:21:56 AM # Q
Personally, some of the designs of the PPCs with all features built in have been, uh, less than inspiring. However, I would be happy to make a small trade-off for extra function over design.

Besides, the 3 things most Palm users are looking for (Replacable battery, Cobalt, VGA, and BT/Wifi) would not need a great deal of re-designing to fit into today's chassis.

RE: F Design! Give me FUNCTION!
Wollombi @ 2/11/2005 6:33:42 PM # Q
I really like the 160MB internal memory on the T5. The only improvement I would really make, and that being temporary until the get the NVFS down right, is to make the "main" 64MB of memory actual RAM. Once they get the NVFS thing figured out, though, I don't think it will be necessary. Just give me a good, large heap though.

_________________
Sean

There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.

RE: F Design! Give me FUNCTION!
Gekko @ 2/11/2005 11:52:52 PM # Q

The T5 is a piece of garbage. I'd rather have 16MB or ***REAL*** Memory than that GARBAGE FRIGGIN CRAP SHIIIIT SHIIT FLASH SHIIT RAM CRAP GARBGAGE SHIIT THAT THOSE MOOTHA FUUCKSA put on us wit the T5. Unless one of you MOFOs had a T5 or T650, you know not what the FUUUCK i talk about.

(another straight ketel dirty martni - 3 olives plz)

RE: F Design! Give me FUNCTION!
mikecane @ 2/12/2005 8:04:03 PM # Q
Gekko is still traumatized by his T5 experience. My experience was better, but I *still* wouldn't buy it!

RE: F Design! Give me FUNCTION!
ben_TE @ 2/14/2005 8:32:29 PM # Q
Bigger Clipboard: going beyond 64Kb will require a change to the PalmOS clipboard API, so we'll probably see larger clipboard like HiRes+ support, requiring an updated version of 3rd-party software to make use of it.


Reply to this comment

No, it is the industry maturing

RhinoSteve @ 2/8/2005 9:47:15 PM # Q
"Ok cowboys, it is time to leave this town, they are starting to pave the roads and have regular sheriff patrols. This is not the frontier anymore." -- Anonymous

What we are seeing it not a decline but a maturing of the business. The "turbo geeks" that proliferate this site are quickly becoming the minority voice in Palm OS product determination.

You don't like it, well you take a hard look and put your Palm devices in a nice box that you put in the attic next to the Commodore-64, Kaypro and Osborne you have there. Palm execs don't listen to you much anymore.

While you all hate the T5, it is selling quite well. You will not see it at a local geek fest, you will see it in real world use. Microsoft is still not getting it right and frankly, they will cut this line loose when the first wave of last recession hits their internal coffers. [Gekko and Voice, bring it on!]

Look at that clueless user that taps and syncs their notes and photos. That is the new face of the Palm community. Why were hacks not supported in OS5? Because losers like you were the only ones that cared for them. The rest of the real world had more to do on a Saturday night than manage multiple HackMaster configurations.

And when there is another high-tech frontier to trailblaze, I'll be in that territory faster than you think. In the meantime, I'm having fun taking bids on the land claims that I settled and grew for some city slicker to pay top dollar for as I ride into the sunset.

Ride on boys!


BubbaSteve, BubbaSteve, BubbaSteve...
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 2/8/2005 10:46:08 PM # Q
What we are seeing it not a decline but a maturing of the business. The "turbo geeks" that proliferate this site are quickly becoming the minority voice in Palm OS product determination.

You don't like it, well you take a hard look and put your Palm devices in a nice box that you put in the attic next to the Commodore-64, Kaypro and Osborne you have there. Palm execs don't listen to you much anymore.

While you all hate the T5, it is selling quite well. You will not see it at a local geek fest, you will see it in real world use. Microsoft is still not getting it right and frankly, they will cut this line loose when the first wave of last recession hits their internal coffers. [Gekko and Voice, bring it on!]

Look at that clueless user that taps and syncs their notes and photos. That is the new face of the Palm community. Why were hacks not supported in OS5? Because losers like you were the only ones that cared for them. The rest of the real world had more to do on a Saturday night than manage multiple HackMaster configurations.

BubbaSteve, a few corrections to your weak (even for you) post:

What we are seeing is not a maturing of the business but a withering of a fad. A fad from a company not creative enough to develop its core product to the point that it could sell because of its indispensible FUNCTIONALITY rather than its fleeting FASHION.

Do you really think the T"5" is selling well?

You are correct in implying that Palm should not cater to the narrow interests of power users. EXCEPT when those interests include features that would be useful to a significant number of mainstream users. Not many companies that keep their sights low and fail to innovate survive for very long in a tech industry. Especially not in niche, non-commodity, shrinking market spaces. If Palm wanted to do the snake oil salesman act, they should have paid a lot more attention to haw Apple does it, including hiring Apple's industrial designers and their marketing company. Sleazy Steve Jobs could (easily) manage to sell ice to Eskimos...

Microsoft obviously isn't going anywhere. They're whittling away at PalmOS marketshare, and PalmSource is a disorganized mess right now. In retrospect, we'll see that Microsoft didn't kill PalmOS. Palm killed PalmOS.


******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

BubbaSteve, BubbaSteve, BubbaSteve...
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 2/8/2005 10:46:08 PM # Q
What we are seeing it not a decline but a maturing of the business. The "turbo geeks" that proliferate this site are quickly becoming the minority voice in Palm OS product determination.

You don't like it, well you take a hard look and put your Palm devices in a nice box that you put in the attic next to the Commodore-64, Kaypro and Osborne you have there. Palm execs don't listen to you much anymore.

While you all hate the T5, it is selling quite well. You will not see it at a local geek fest, you will see it in real world use. Microsoft is still not getting it right and frankly, they will cut this line loose when the first wave of last recession hits their internal coffers. [Gekko and Voice, bring it on!]

Look at that clueless user that taps and syncs their notes and photos. That is the new face of the Palm community. Why were hacks not supported in OS5? Because losers like you were the only ones that cared for them. The rest of the real world had more to do on a Saturday night than manage multiple HackMaster configurations.

BubbaSteve, a few corrections to your weak (even for you) post:

What we are seeing is not a maturing of the business but a withering of a fad. A fad from a company not creative enough to develop its core product to the point that it could sell because of its indispensible FUNCTIONALITY rather than its fleeting FASHION.

Do you really think the T"5" is selling well?

You are correct in implying that Palm should not cater to the narrow interests of power users. EXCEPT when those interests include features that would be useful to a significant number of mainstream users. Not many companies that keep their sights low and fail to innovate survive for very long in a tech industry. Especially not in niche, non-commodity, shrinking market spaces. If Palm wanted to do the snake oil salesman act, they should have paid a lot more attention to haw Apple does it, including hiring Apple's industrial designers and their marketing company. Sleazy Steve Jobs could (easily) manage to sell ice to Eskimos...

Microsoft obviously isn't going anywhere. They're whittling away at PalmOS marketshare, and PalmSource is a disorganized mess right now. In retrospect, we'll see that Microsoft didn't kill PalmOS. Palm killed PalmOS.


******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: No, it is the industry maturing
Gekko @ 2/8/2005 11:46:52 PM # Q

RhinoNerd - Stop blowing smoke up everyone's ass with your silly quotes and predictions. The difference between you and I is that you're some kind of nerd who treats this shiit like some kind of religion and I could care less which company "wins" while you seem to be in love with your Palm (pun intended) - I just want this company to improve its products since I've already got time and money invested in the platform and would actually prefer to remain a Palm customer. I'm in sales with 3,000+ contacts and if that makes me a power user than so be it. Palm is sitting on the ball and at this point it looks like they're going to lose the game - like it or not. Don't make this shiit personal.

RE: No, it is the industry maturing
svrontis @ 2/9/2005 1:07:25 AM # Q
> A fad from a company not creative enough to develop its core product to the point that it could sell because of its indispensible FUNCTIONALITY rather than its fleeting FASHION.

Perhaps. But this company is creative enough to produce units which sell at a profit - which means that their palmpilots are sufficiently appealing to people who are willing to hand over their wages for them.

Compare that to the performance of that epitome of creativity ... that paragon of innovation ... Sony ... who produced unsuccessful products. The buying public had a very simple message for Sony: take your creativity and shove it!

So you think Palm's PDAs are profitable?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 2/9/2005 2:00:05 AM # Q
> A fad from a company not creative enough to develop its core product to the point that it could sell because of its indispensible FUNCTIONALITY rather than its fleeting FASHION.

Perhaps. But this company is creative enough to produce units which sell at a profit - which means that their palmpilots are sufficiently appealing to people who are willing to hand over their wages for them.

Compare that to the performance of that epitome of creativity ... that paragon of innovation ... Sony ... who produced unsuccessful products. The buying public had a very simple message for Sony: take your creativity and shove it!

Let's consider two business plans for a minute:

Company A is first to market with a highly profitable, solid, functional design. Instead of investing in R + D and pushing the envelope, they concentrate on maximizing short term profits by cutting costs, slashing production quality and issuing one incremental upgrade after another. Arguably a wise strategy if (a) you're the only game in town and (b) the market keeps booming.

Then there's Company B who's arrives later on the market. They burn through a ton of cash, creating + releasing around 20 different models within three years. Each model experiments with hardware designs and many models sport custom OS upgrades. Several models completely miss the mark, some have only one or two decent ideas, but the feedback rolls in and ideas from the R + D lab sink or swim based on their own merit once they're out on their own in the real world. Arguably a wise strategy if you (a) have a good R + D department, (b) are looking for long term profitability (c) envision the future of PDAs as more than just PIM devices and (d) the market keeps booming.

But guess what? The market doesn't keep booming. In that case, PDAs that have capabilities beyond mere PIM seem to be the way to go. How likely is it that Company A would be able to adapt and produce a design that takes PDAs to the next stage? Simple. They can't. Company B, on the other hand already has prototyped - or even sold - the kind of devices that could define the PDA of the future: PIM/video player/camcorder/digital camera/watch/alarm clock/MP3 player/wireless internet/desktop file storage + viewer/voice recorder/micro laptop/universal remote/email/gaming console/etc.

Yes, Sony probably lost a hell of a lot of $$$ on its PDA sales department. But as I stated before in my article here (http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=7519), Sony pulled out just when they were starting to get everything right. Furthermore, Palm's PDAs have lost the company tens of millions in the past three years. Treo sales are Palm's only decent money maker. And that could easily disappear if a competitor comes out with another phone. (Any phone as long as it runs PalmOS and isn't as poorly built as the Treos.) Or if PalmOS facilitates abusing cell networks and the carriers get skittish. Great business model, Company A!



******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: No, it is the industry maturing
svrontis @ 2/9/2005 5:30:37 AM # Q
> Company B, on the other hand already has prototyped - or even sold - the kind of devices that could define the PDA of the future

I guess that means that you agree that Sony was producing the sort of palmpilots which most users did not want to buy. Have I misunderstood you point, again?

RE: No, it is the industry maturing
svrontis @ 2/9/2005 5:35:34 AM # Q
PS.

The Kent/Foo Fighter, thank you for an interesting and thought-provoking article. I hope that you will be able to find the time to continue to make quality contributions like this in the future.



RE: No, it is the industry maturing
joad @ 2/9/2005 2:05:11 PM # Q
4 Reasons that NONE of the 20+ PDAs/Smartphones I have owned were ever a SONY:

1) Memorystick has always been a proprietary disaster

2) SONY's track record of NOT standing behind their products, and leading the industry toward dropping consumer electric warranties down to 90 days.

3) Designing for style rather than usability (compare their hardware buttons to any other manufacturer and you'll get my drift).

4) TOO MANY MODELS with little difference between them to care.

SONY pushed the envelope of the PDA in many ways, but their core incompetency at the basics is what killed them. There's a reason the Ipod is in everyone's hands and the Walkman is a memory from 25 years ago... Apple was free to design a usable MP3 player, SONY owned too many things and was conflicted everywhere it turned (SONY music won't let them use MP3's without ATRAC mucking it up, the Minidisc division wanted it to sell Minidiscs, etc).

PalmOne is heading in the same direction in many ways- downsizing the warranties, dumbing down and outsourcing the support, selling "flashy" Palms that sell once, break, and collect dust in a drawer while the owners go back to their daytimer... IMHO for $400-600 dollars PalmOne should give me- someone who has consistently purchased Palms- MUCH better quality and specifications than the crappy T5s and Treo 650s. Their short-term strategy of selling garbage that's *flashy* but underpowered as a truly usable device will bite them in the long term. 16MB of usable RAM in the Treo 650, and the unlocked version is $700.00? Absolutely ridiculous.

You can sell a lot of people with clever and colorful advertising ONCE. But if you want to make another sale after they realize how badly they were suckered on that last $600 (or $700 now for the unlocked Treo), you will pay dearly (as PalmOne is beginning to find out...).

Fool me once, shame on you,
fool me twice, shame on me.

RE: No, it is the industry maturing
RhinoSteve @ 2/9/2005 2:07:08 PM # Q
I think I have proven my point here. PDAs in some form are here to stay. Gekko, if all you do is sales, I can see you exagerating your assests to claim you are worth over a million -- a house on the coast that you can't liquidate at market value doesn't count.

I'm still convinced that this is maturing of the industry. And with that "maturing" comes cycling through MBAs types 'til you realize the emperor is not wearing any clothes.

McDonalds came back, Apple came back and that was done by getting back to the basics that made them successful and not being some petri dish of a liberal/socialist MBA manager type. PalmSource will too quicker then you guys think.

The current purge of management is good for the industry in a whole.

RE: No, it is the industry maturing
Gekko @ 2/9/2005 2:21:45 PM # Q
>Gekko, if all you do is sales, I can see you exagerating your assests.

Go find some top professional salespeople and ask them what they make. Apparently, you'll be shocked and angry.



RE: No, it is the industry maturing
RhinoSteve @ 2/9/2005 3:11:35 PM # Q
Dude, I know what top sales guys make. I employ enough of them.

Sales: the last to know, the first to complain.
RE: No, it is the industry maturing
Gekko @ 2/9/2005 3:23:41 PM # Q

Oh yeah? What's the name of your company?



RE: No, it is the industry maturing
RhinoSteve @ 2/9/2005 4:05:36 PM # Q
I'm surprised you don't know who I am.
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