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Comments on: webOS 1.3.1 Packs Nasty App Surprises For Importers

App Catalog UnavailablePalm seems to be suffering from a touch of schizophrenia regarding its international customers. On the one hand, we're given new capabilities that make it easy to use international networks. On the other? We seem to be no longer be welcome in the App Catalog, which now appears to be locking out users who have not activated their Pres on O2. Understandably, those users are outraged.

Your correspondent has seen this before - specifically, when I used the webOS Doctor to install the Sprint 1.2.1 firmware on my unlocked Pre. It seems that later versions of webOS & the App Catalog will specifically check which country your Pre was activated in before it will let you inside - and if you're not on an approved carrier, you'll be turned away like a badly-dressed bum from a nightclub. The question is: was this a deliberate move on Palm's part or a simple technical mistake which didn't take the unlocked phones into consideration? PIC has contacted Palm seeking official comment and will update you as we get more info.

That's not the only issue with the Euro App Catalog that's cropped up with 1.3.1, though. More after the break...

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Here's hoping

palmdoc88 @ 11/24/2009 6:33:38 PM # Q
That a server side fix will do and we don't have to wait for the next firmware update.
Then again Palm might be stubborn and want to persist with Geo filtering...
http://palmdoc.net
RE: Here's hoping
Tim Carroll @ 11/24/2009 7:37:23 PM # Q
I suspect geo-filtering will remain in place for apps, but any problems there can be easily solved by developers just nominating to distribute their apps worldwide...

The lockout, though... that's way more serious, IMO. I suppose technically Palm are under no obligation to allow us outsiders access, but it's a great way to P'O' your fans - all of whom importers are most likely to be. Still waiting to hear back from Palm on this.


Sometime PIC blogger
Treo 270 --> Treo 650 --> Treo 680 --> Centro --> Pre
I apologise for any and all emoticons in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.

RE: Here's hoping
hkklife @ 11/24/2009 7:56:54 PM # Q
Of course it's intentional. Palm has been continually trying to bite the hand that feeds them for the past decade. Do you really expect anything else from them? Tim, you probably brought this upon yourself and all of the other importers for flaunting your Teutonic Pre all over PIC! ;-)

We need to all put our heads together and compile a list of "Shitty things Palm has done to us via WebOS" . Really, enough is enough!

I mean, ignoring the non-Sprint user community, offering no opt-out for data/location monitoring in the EULA, to an inability to use the device without an active wireless connection, to overwriting your cloud backups to this latest little gaff. Palm is one merciless company, huh?!


Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

RE: Here's hoping
CFreymarc @ 11/24/2009 11:23:02 PM # Q
Palm may have big time personnel problems. First no native SDK to the masses and now this screw up with the app store. The conspiracy theorist in me says this is a dry run to throttle app distribution when big player, big company apps comes in to out shut out existing competing apps. But then, it could just be outsourcing cheap and semi-skilled IT guys.
RE: Here's hoping
nastebu @ 11/25/2009 12:09:38 AM # Q
Palm has nothing to gain by cutting international customers off. Assuming the shut off is not a mistake, which is a big assumption, I would think the problem is probably legal.

Apple's App store and iTunes store is different for each country, I assume because the rights to distribute the material have to be negotiated in each country. On Palm's app store, that might become an issue if the applications used licensed content?

RE: Here's hoping
palmpreacher @ 11/25/2009 1:23:51 AM # Q
an email from yesterday from palm:

"...We are implementing country filtering for these devices and starting this week, your free application(s) will show up in the EMEA App Catalog only if you have selected the respective countries for distribution (if you recall, country filtering was not fully implemented at launch). To ensure your application is visible in the App Catalogs shipping on the devices in these markets, please be sure to go into the portal and check the boxes for each country in which you want your app visible to customers"

RE: Here's hoping
nastebu @ 11/25/2009 2:02:21 AM # Q
There you go! I think Palmpreacher's post explains it. Be calm Tim. Most applications don't involve anyone's intellectual property but the developers, and so will be available in Oz.

On a related topic, even though I have a Japanese cell on a Japanese carrier in Japan, my iTunes account is American, so I rent from the American from the American iTunes store. I wonder if it will be the same from Palm?

RE: Here's hoping
Tim Carroll @ 11/25/2009 4:41:42 AM # Q
^^ Like I said - I'm not really worried about the geo-filtering, all it will take is devs deciding to make it worldwide. (and why wouldn't they want to?) It's the lockout that really bothers me.
RE: Here's hoping
Gekko @ 11/25/2009 4:46:43 AM # Q

Shit in one hand and hope in the other and see which one fills up first.

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Palm is losing

stonehat @ 11/25/2009 2:51:24 AM # Q
And another few hundred potential Webos developers in Europe sigh and head out to buy an Android...

RE: Palm is losing
Wollombi @ 11/28/2009 2:21:57 PM # Q
Gasp! You mean, Gekko, that reports of the death of the non-wireless handheld device have been greatly exaggerated? =P
_________________
Sean

There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.

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Android And Palm Need Their Own iPod Touch, Fast

Gekko @ 11/25/2009 8:45:20 AM # Q

i think hkk has been saying this all along.

Android And Palm Need Their Own iPod Touch, Fast (GOOG, PALM, AAPL)
Dan Frommer|Nov. 25, 2009, 11:05 AM

Apple's iPod touch remains an underappreciated part of its success with the iPhone app platform.

Therefore, Apple's rivals -- especially Google Android's partners and Palm -- should seek to replicate some of that success by creating their own no-contract, wi-fi-only devices that run their respective app platforms.

Why?

A good, no-contract device at the right price could increase the overall size of the Android and Palm WebOS markets, giving developers more reason to invest in those platforms -- further improving them.

http://www.businessinsider.com/android-and-palm-need-their-own-ipod-touch-fast-2009-11


RE: Android And Palm Need Their Own iPod Touch, Fast
Wollombi @ 11/28/2009 2:22:42 PM # Q
Gekko wrote:

i think hkk has been saying this all along.

Android And Palm Need Their Own iPod Touch, Fast (GOOG, PALM, AAPL)
Dan Frommer|Nov. 25, 2009, 11:05 AM

Apple's iPod touch remains an underappreciated part of its success with the iPhone app platform.

Therefore, Apple's rivals -- especially Google Android's partners and Palm -- should seek to replicate some of that success by creating their own no-contract, wi-fi-only devices that run their respective app platforms.

Why?

A good, no-contract device at the right price could increase the overall size of the Android and Palm WebOS markets, giving developers more reason to invest in those platforms -- further improving them.

http://www.businessinsider.com/android-and-palm-need-their-own-ipod-touch-fast-2009-11

Gasp! You mean, Gekko, that reports of the death of the non-wireless handheld device have been greatly exaggerated? =P
_________________


_________________
Sean

There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.

RE: Android And Palm Need Their Own iPod Touch, Fast
Gekko @ 11/28/2009 2:46:09 PM # Q

no. it's dead.

http://brainstormtech.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2009/11/25/chart-ipod-vs-iphone/

is this why you crawled out from under your rock?

RE: Android And Palm Need Their Own iPod Touch, Fast
mikecane @ 11/28/2009 3:10:47 PM # Q
>>>i think hkk has been saying this all along.

WTF?

Palm: Revenge Of The Nerdi
http://mikecane2008.wordpress.com/2008/12/15/palm-revenge-of-the-nerdi/

Anyway, I'm beginning to think this time it really IS too late for Palm. It's not an iPhone and people are flocking to Android.

RE: Android And Palm Need Their Own iPod Touch, Fast
nastebu @ 11/28/2009 10:09:56 PM # Q
I would think this would be a brutal market to get into. The basic problem with a no-contract smart thing is you'd have to answer the question, "why wouldn't I just buy an iPod Touch or Zune?"

With a smart phone, there's the question of carrier which drives people away from the iPhone. But if it's just a pda/mp3 player, there's no reason to invest in a Pre-PDA which has all the disadvantages of the Pre (no App Store, tiny market for accessories, weak presence in retail chains) with none of the advantages (carrier, synergy, etc.) The same thing for an Android device.

Also, it would be hard to compete with Apple on price since Apple has a huge advantage in economies of scale here. The risk of an expensive failure is pretty big, and the possibility of a profit driving break-away hit is pretty low.

RE: Android And Palm Need Their Own iPod Touch, Fast
nastebu @ 11/28/2009 10:13:47 PM # Q
^^^^
sorry, "no App Store" is wrong of course. I suppose I meant no iTunes store, and a tiny app catalog for the Pre.
RE: Android And Palm Need Their Own iPod Touch, Fast
CFreymarc @ 11/30/2009 12:44:32 PM # Q
Yes, a non-carrier, Andriod or webOS device will only enhace either platforms. Apple launching a non-carrier and carrier configured product based off the same design was a very good move.

I'd love to know the stats on how many app purchasers are iPod Touch vs. iPhone. There are many that have an iPod Touch since they don't want to break their carrier contract. Also, it makes a good game machine that rivals the current Sony and Nintendo units.

The question is does Palm have the guts to release a non-carrier webOS device that just operates on WiFi no matter how Sprint reacts? The fact that no major mobile hardware maker has come out with a platform that lets you do VoIP to bypass a carrier tells me a lot of the board politics and where the money is going.

RE: Android And Palm Need Their Own iPod Touch, Fast
abosco @ 12/1/2009 6:46:41 AM # M Q
Try doing VoIP through a cell data network. It sucks. People who jailbreak have access to Skype over 3G. AT&T offiially allows it too, but no official apps have come out for it. That's because it sucks. The packet loss just doesn't work for VoIP.

I don't need it anyway. I don't even use the minutes I pay for.

RE: Android And Palm Need Their Own iPod Touch, Fast
Gekko @ 12/1/2009 6:53:53 AM # Q

this is pretty good -

The great iPhone death watch
Posted by Philip Elmer-DeWitt
December 1, 2009 7:59 AM

What critics were saying about Steve Jobs' smartphone in the months before it launched

http://brainstormtech.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2009/12/01/the-great-iphone-death-watch/

RE: Android And Palm Need Their Own iPod Touch, Fast
hkklife @ 12/1/2009 9:29:54 AM # Q
On the Android front (specifically the Moto Droid, as it appears I WILL be returning this piece of rubbish and going back to a Treo 755p + a Moto dumbphone), here are two nice articles:

http://stevesremoteclicker.com/journal/2009/11/27/my-droid-experiment.html

http://alsop-louie.com/gadgets/droid-doesnt-its-not-ready-for-prime-time/

The first article in particular is less sensationalized and REALLY right on the money. I've used three Droids and all exhibited the same basic problems, with some hardware issues varying drastically from unit to unit (slider tightness, screen quality, button looseness etc).

Stay tuned for the full review when time permits. In a nutshell, however, the Droid would be a phenomenal VOIP and/or data-centric platform but it blows chunks as a coverged device. I'd gladly pay $50 a month for a data-only Droid for web/email/navigation/VOIP and bypass a carrier voice plan entirely.

The telephony & PIM functionality are by far the worst of the Droid's components (and the worst parts of Android in general). For navigation it's a stunning device. For web browsing, it's very, very good. For media (capture & playback), it ranges from very good to good and can easily be improved via additional apps and firmware updates. But the device blows as a one's primary telephone and is a very weak business-oriented device, especially if you are trying to manage multiple email accounts or have a dozen + years of PIM data to integrate.

If this were my first smartphone or I was 18 I'd be a lot more forgiving. But it's not, I'm not, and I am here to tell it like it is. In fact, I think that the Droid's surprisingly huge sales numbers are mostly due to the dearth of decent hardware on VZW, huge media blitz Verizon is putting on, the sudden cut-rate commodity pricing for both VZW Android models. I think the device is attracting a lot of soccer moms (aka trendy MILFs), teeny-boppers, and first-time smartphone owner neophyte hipsters. In general, casual users upgrading from an old RAZR or some similar dumbphone who need/want to stay on VZW.

I'll hopefully have more time in the next few days to work on my review. Next great hope for me? I guess I'm back to waiting for the Pre on Verizon OR buying another 755p or Centro to tide me over until the next big thang.
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

RE: Android And Palm Need Their Own iPod Touch, Fast
MikeT5 @ 12/1/2009 1:44:42 PM # Q
Buy a Centro and don't look back.

Many find it in vogue to lambast the palm OS platform as antiquated and outlived. My take is show me what works as simply, elegantly, and just plain better for what it was intended to do in the workplace and marketplace: viz. be an intuitive platform for syncing (Outlook) with a full-fledged PIM, email, and bevy of excellent, third-party apps. My chief criticism is the limited buffer for copying-and-pasting data on palm OS smartphones. I find others' criticisms about palm OS's lack of multi-tasking curious. How many apps does one really need to run at once on the "go."Hacks exist to allow for some excellent task-switching on the palm OS, anyway, and programs like PTunes allow one to listen to music in the background, while performing other functions in the foreground, if desired. I don't think this can be done on Pre's or Pixi's implementation on webOS just yet. Still others criticize Blazer's limited web-browsing experience. While it is sparse in features compared with contemporary offerings, one still can install the superb Opera Mini browser, with minimal tweaking of Java, for a near full-blown web experience. Personally, when I am on the "go," I don't want to waste time with excessive and repeated finger-flicking and pinching (and cramping) for zooming in and out of web pages, nor do I want to tote a buff cloth for cleaning smudges almost after every use of a touch device. I simply want to access and render web information reasonably fast on a mobile web site, without Flash, and unwanted and annoying ads.

I have not tested a Droid, but have owned an iPod Touch for about a year. I use it almost exclusively as a compact media player for downloading and watching television programs and films, listening to music, playing games, etc., mostly when I'm in flight, and find no need to carry a laptop for work that I can otherwise do on my Centro. I have never used, but have tested, the Touch's comparatively limited PIMs, nor do I use its notes (memos) or email programs--though I sometimes use its calculator. I have tested an iPhone and several Blackberry models (Storm, Bold, Tour, Curve, Pearl, etc.).
The iPod Touch is probably what PDA's would have evolved into had the PDA platform survived. The BBs are probably what the palm Treos/Centros should have evolved into as business smartphones, but only better, given palm's legacy of in-house and third party software development, and formerly formidable user base. The iPhone is overpiced and doesn't task-switch let alone "multitask," but it it is an undeniable "hit" because of its sexy marketing, build, and plethora of (mostly confusing and unnecessary) applications. For me, it is a PIA to keep going back to the Touch's (or iPhone's) main launcher everytime I need to start or change programs. BBs allow limited task-switching but no multitasking, which I've already commented on. The BBs' task-switching capabilities do not approach what I can do on palm OS using RNS's Hi-Launcher/sub-launcher programs and/or other excellent third-party launchers on that platform. I have grown used to typing on the Touch's virtual keyboard, but it hardly compares with what is a more satisfying, tactile typing experience for me on Centro's physical keyboard--cramped bubbleboard and all. I make as many mistakes and corrections on the Touch as I do on the Centro--perhaps more--but from what I've read others have fared better on their virtual keyboards.


Admittedly, I don't contribute much to this website--not for lack of interest, but time. However, I have been a follower of the many useful contributions of PIC's regulars for years, and have found many excellent suggestions, tips, reviews, and comments. None of those who have disparaged the so-called "Centreo" iterations have convinced me, whether supported (or not) with my own hands-on trials, that it is worth my time or effort to undergo the learning-curve of, and transition to, competing mobile platforms that are inherent with their own strengths and weaknesses. After a decade of using and accruing data on palm OS, even switching to Windows Mobile would be a bite for me but, of course, that's another story. WebOS may be the future. I have tried the Pre, and will try it again (or its successor), later, hopefully if or when the platform and hardware have matured, synergies have been properly optimized, and privacy is resolved in favor of end-users.

Finally, while I have chuckled at the Pre's psychotic Mona Lisa and her psychodelic Pixi-teens, I ask, "Wll palm will ever market to others, again?" Many of us are not schizophrenic soccer moms, nor their freaky, 60's-wanna-be daughters. It makes me long for "Claus" and his "magical" reindeer.

RE: Android And Palm Need Their Own iPod Touch, Fast
SeldomVisitor @ 12/1/2009 2:00:20 PM # Q
> ...It makes me long for "Claus"...

Aieeeeeee!

RE: Android And Palm Need Their Own iPod Touch, Fast
mikecane @ 12/1/2009 3:28:57 PM # Q
>>>aka trendy MILFs

LMAO!!!

No carrier/no phone = buy a Zune or iPod Touch? Well, tell that to Google, which intends to do some kind of WiFi/Google Voice thing.

And there's a reason to buy it over iPod Touch if you want video -- you don't have to frikkin CONVERT DiVX/XViD AVI to damn MP4 and wind up with TWO copies of everydamnthing. At least, with an ARCHOS 5 Internet Tablet you can do the AVI -- out of the box Android is still stuck with MP4. Where the hell are the CorePlayer guys to step up and clean up?

RE: Android And Palm Need Their Own iPod Touch, Fast
hkklife @ 12/1/2009 6:37:04 PM # Q
No, Mike, I meant a DATA-centric device from the carrier. As in "if you can't do voice properly then don't bother with voice at all"! IMO, Google & Moto have done quite a bellyflop as far as voice functionality of the Droid/Android 2.0.

The Droid lacks voice dialing over BT which I recall having with my Motorola V710 5.5 years ago! It also lacks any kind of hard send/end (aka "green" & "red") buttons for the phone AND Android's stock call log is quite possibly the worst thing I've seen since the LifeDrive. It also fails miserably when detecting removal from your face (screen stays dark, no easy way to wake up the proximity sensor) and frequently has trouble hanging up from calls.

Even more maddening is that i am CONSTANTLY calling people at random and redialing calls when it's in my pocket. Slip it into a pocket? You risk dialing someone. Put it into a pouch or case? You also risk unwanted dialing. It's also developing a Tungsten T5-like mushy power button which is very disconcerting after less than 1 month of relatively gentle use. I'll often have to mash it quite hard in order to turn the screen off & lock the device.

The Droid works quite well as a non-mission critical device (IE not relying on it as a phone) and VZW has a giant 3G footprint nearly everywhere I've been in the country. And FWIW, VersaMail blows the stock Droid mail app out of the water.
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

RE: Android And Palm Need Their Own iPod Touch, Fast
gmayhak @ 12/1/2009 7:17:03 PM # Q
"MikeT5 @ 12/1/2009 1:44:42 PM #
Buy a Centro and don't look back."

I agree 100% Mike, the Centro was the last Palm device I'll buy unless things change drastically. I don't even have my Centro activated (there's not even any good service out here in the Arizona desert) but it runs all my Palm apps and makes a great little pocket music player with PocketTunes. It's surprising how many Palm TXs are alive and well, I still get lots of orders for the little Bud Mic.
My main PDA is the iPod Touch, mainly because I can write any app I want for it plus the ton of low priced apps available. I just hope we weren't responsible for the demise of Palm with all our bitching about frankingarnet, it seems garnet wasn't that bad after all compared to this web OS stuff.

Gary
iTalentProductions.com
Tech Center Labs

RE: Android And Palm Need Their Own iPod Touch, Fast
mikecane @ 12/2/2009 6:37:40 AM # Q
>>>No, Mike, I meant a DATA-centric device from the carrier.

Most likely the Dell Streak then. If it's ever released.

RE: Android And Palm Need Their Own iPod Touch, Fast
MikeT5 @ 12/2/2009 3:34:50 PM # Q
Hello Gary (gmayhak):

I doubt you, or anyone else, other than palm, should accept responsibility for Garnet's demise. The OS was overdue for an overhaul, and company resources probably were re-directed in developing the new Web OS platform for some time.

I liked the way TealOS "emulated" the look and feel of WebOS on the palmOS platform before it was "shut-down" by palm. Palm should've taken the cue, however, as it would've been nice if older palmOS apps could've similarly run side-by-side with WebOS apps under comparable emulation on its new webOS platform, along with hotsync. Since I am not a developer, but a doctor/scientist, I don't know if this would have been possible. If so, it might've enticed me to make the move to palm's new platform by now, but the pre's build quality and end-user privacy remain concerns for me--esp. the latter, in my profession.

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The fix

palmdoc88 @ 11/25/2009 1:46:29 PM # M Q
There's now a work-around using 1.1.3's app catalogue. After you do that you get 161 free apps listed again

http://is.gd/53qpj

The interesting thing is someone else got the full 400+ app catalogue by:
1) Reflash with metadoctored 1.13, bypassing sim activation. Sign in to pofile
2) Update to 1.3.1

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Palm Pre on ABC's FlashForward this week

mikecane @ 12/1/2009 3:30:28 PM # Q
Go to http://twitpic.com/photos/mikecane and see the screensnaps. I saw it ahead of time thanks to Australia. *cough cough* Nudge nudge wink wink say no more.

Do NOT click on the Tyler Durden screensnap, kiddies!

RE: Palm Pre on ABC's FlashForward this week
mikecane @ 12/1/2009 3:31:16 PM # Q
Oh, and if anyone wants to use those in a blog, go ahead. Just leave a Comment somewhere there with a link so I can see too.
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