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Comments on: Even More WebOS Tablet Details Emerge

palm tablet webos The dust has not even settled on yesterday's breathtaking WebOS tablet leak and we've already got a fresh batch of new info, again courtesy of Engadget.

Citing their usual "trusted" anonymous tipsters, the second Engadget piece reveals that the smaller of the WebOS twin tablets, codenamed "Opal", will be roughly similar in size to the Samsung Galaxy Tab. Having extensively used a Galaxy Tab over the past few months since its launch, I can confirm that it a very comfortable form factor that can be easily held in one hand or used in two hands for proficient thumb typing. Screen resolution for the Opal is said to be 1024x768, the first WebOS device supporting this resolution and a solid notch above the slew of Android-based 7" devices with 1024x600 screens. This resolution also conveniently matches the first-generation Apple iPad resolution, albeit with much greater pixel density.

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Tablet eBooks: WUT?!

mikecane @ 1/19/2011 4:11:37 PM # Q
>>>Amazon is also thankfully being leveraged as a heavy supported for Kindle e-book integration as well as mp3 and various media store duties.

Where did you dig this out from, your hiney?

First, HP already has a partnership -- which is a CO-BRANDED one -- with Barnes & Noble for eBooks. Ain't no Amazon invited to this party as a bundled app.

Second, HP BOUGHT a frikkin music/media service -- or even two or three -- last year. Look it up.

RE: Tablet eBooks: WUT?!
hkklife @ 1/19/2011 7:07:55 PM # Q
Oh, Mike, PIC's front page was such a pleasant place during your self-imposed exile over the past few months. Everyone knows these acquisitions and partnerships often lead to nothing, especially if it's potential game-changing product on the line like these tablets will be. And if you cannot join the iTunes party, then Amazon integration is by far the next best thing(especially if it's better than Android's slapdash implementation).

The rumor may be entirey off-base but it does come straight from the most reliable source for these sorts of things--Precentral:

" Related but take it with a grain of salt: we've received and unverifiable but true-seeming tip that the tablets will feature tight Amazon integration - including unbox movies, music store, and, yes, Kindle. Perhaps Jon Rubinstein joining Amazon's board wasn't just a coincidence?"

http://www.precentral.net/rumor-more-tablet-details-emerge-touchstone-size-features


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RE: Tablet eBooks: WUT?!
LiveFaith @ 1/19/2011 7:40:24 PM # Q
Welcome back Mike. I'm glad Roller Derby season is over, so you can join us again.
Pat Horne
RE: Tablet eBooks: WUT?!
LiveFaith @ 1/20/2011 11:26:44 AM # Q
Oh, this 2/9 thing could be really interesting. HP has the $$$ and the marketing horsepower to deliver powerful devices on what is already a phenominal OS. Just tinkered with multitasking on my son's iPod Touch yesterday and just chuckled at it in comparison to my Pre+. WebOS has some holes to fill, but it is feasible now.
Pat Horne
RE: Tablet eBooks: WUT?!
Gekko @ 1/20/2011 11:43:25 AM # Q

how did you escape Jonestown?

RE: Tablet eBooks: WUT?!
bhartman34 @ 1/21/2011 4:59:36 PM # Q
I think Rubenstein being on Amazon's board is a dead give-away. And I think it's appropriate, given that WebOS is one of the only (other than Linux, as far as I know) platforms that doesn't have Kindle software yet. With Rubenstein on the board, there's not a snowball's chance in Hell that HP wouldn't be working to get Kindle on WebOS. With Amazon's MP3 service already on WebOS, how could they not have the Kindle software? As for Barnes & Noble, their partnership with HP appears to have been for an online e-bookstore. And the bookstore seems to be in support of this HP PhotoSmart e-Station.
RE: Tablet eBooks: WUT?!
Gekko @ 1/21/2011 5:09:04 PM # Q

what's with all of the cloak and dagger and conspiracy theories? open is the standard today. Android has the Google Books, Amazon Kindle, and B&N Nook APPLICATIONS available for download. in other words, even Google who sells books via their own book store gives you multiple competitor options to buy books on your Android. in fact - the Kindle App is preinstalled on my Sprint EVO. the days of exclusive content distribution deals are gone - unless you own an iPhone.

RE: Tablet eBooks: WUT?!
bhartman34 @ 1/21/2011 5:48:18 PM # Q
Even the iPhone has the Kindle and Nook apps, I think. Doesn't it?
RE: Tablet eBooks: WUT?!
jca666us @ 1/22/2011 7:29:33 AM # M Q
Livefaith,

Apple's multitasking is designed to minimize excessive battery and memory usage.

While webos and rimm's playbook are more visually flashy, it remains to be seen if these contenders can get battery life in the same ballpark as the iPad.

Last I read, rim's having issues getting the battery life of the playbook past a few hours.

RE: Tablet eBooks: WUT?!
mikecane @ 1/22/2011 4:50:44 PM # Q
>>>how did you escape Jonestown?

I didn't drink the Kool-Aid marked EVO.

RE: Tablet eBooks: WUT?!
mikecane @ 1/22/2011 4:52:17 PM # Q
I didn't go into exile. For the longest time I hadn't been signed in and only found that out when I tried to Comment. So I decided, WTF for several times. The tablet news was worth coming in for. (I was about to type "coming out for" but Gekko would take that and run, the filthy little git.)
RE: Tablet eBooks: WUT?!
Gekko @ 1/22/2011 5:39:19 PM # Q

Con -

the Jonestown reference was meant for the Reverend.

we all know you're trapped on Satan Island ever since the ferry "incident".

RE: Tablet eBooks: WUT?!
LiveFaith @ 1/22/2011 7:45:21 PM # Q
I served and then backslid right at the end.
Pat Horne
RE: Tablet eBooks: WUT?!
mikecane @ 1/24/2011 4:04:23 PM # Q
>>>we all know you're trapped on Satan Island ever since the ferry "incident".

Gekko, always keeping files. It's like looking into a candy store window for you, isn't it, wishing you had my life of excitement, cats, and pizza!

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Not Really Sure About This...

bhartman34 @ 1/21/2011 6:16:21 PM # Q
I'm not in love with the idea of a phone OS on a tablet to begin with, and WebOS is particularly limiting, at this point, with the dearth of apps. They'd better have something huge planned in the meantime to deal with the app issue, and without new phones over the summer, I'm outta there. My contract's up in July, and a Pre 2 isn't enough of an incentive to keep me in the HP/Palm camp.
RE: Not Really Sure About This...
Gekko @ 1/21/2011 6:46:50 PM # Q

but don't you want to be trapped on a tiny proprietary island all by yourself?

RE: Not Really Sure About This...
bhartman34 @ 1/21/2011 7:36:42 PM # Q
Well, I don't think the WebOS world is that small. It's just the idea of being on any island doesn't appeal to me, and a tablet should have PC-style apps, not phone apps. It's the same beef I have with the iPad. On the positive side, you can sideload apps on a WebOS device w/o jailbreaking it, but like I said, there isn't the wide variety of apps you have for the iOS world. I'm wondering if HP is banking on the idea that the tablet itself will bring new developers. That's a risky strategy.
RE: Not Really Sure About This...
LiveFaith @ 1/22/2011 8:00:56 PM # Q
If they are going to attract devs with the pad, then the things had better massage your back in vibration mode, double as a heating pad, and triple as a casserole warmer, and a host of other things that leap frog iPad, Playbook, and the G clones.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but if I'm going to dev, then I want to see a robust market, or the evidence that one is on the way. HP stands for Hefty Promises at this point, and Palm has burnt a lot of good devs with Palm OS neglect, the Foldeo, wimpy WebOS APIs, and collapsing what market share was there.

Robust development comes most often from those with robust wallets. Those who look to keep that wallet padded. A great phone OS, with the possibility of a great tab OS, all w/out platform market share is a non-starter IMO. HP had better have more than a cool tablet or an "iPad killer" to get devs.

It appears they are going for seamless "sync" across scalable devices. I believe that will be the "beyond" part on the 9th. It needs to be good or this could be a one and half billion hole in the ground.

All this excepts the unbelievable Homebrew devs, WebOSinternals / Preware gang. I would have been gone without them, and I've been assigned to turn out the lights 'round here.
Pat Horne

RE: Not Really Sure About This...
gmayhak @ 1/22/2011 8:57:46 PM # Q
We're all waiting but the only thing that will get my attention is full support for legacy Palm OS apps. It's not too late for them to realize what made Palm, the hundreds of thousands man hours developing tools and apps for Palm OS. Web OS is someones guess of a cool os. No facts, just a guess!
What the hell were they thinking? Just add the flashy card stuff to a proven OS and add more processing capability to the hardware so developers can take atvantage of it and keep building on what you have. Don't throw it all away and start over. There is no room for nubees in this market!

Gary
Tech Center Labs
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RE: Not Really Sure About This...
bhartman34 @ 1/22/2011 9:29:41 PM # Q
gmayhak wrote:
We're all waiting but the only thing that will get my attention is full support for legacy Palm OS apps. It's not too late for them to realize what made Palm, the hundreds of thousands man hours developing tools and apps for Palm OS. Web OS is someones guess of a cool os. No facts, just a guess!
What the hell were they thinking? Just add the flashy card stuff to a proven OS and add more processing capability to the hardware so developers can take atvantage of it and keep building on what you have. Don't throw it all away and start over. There is no room for nubees in this market!

Gary

I don't think PalmOS is going to be a help at this point. What they should've done with the release of the Pre is license Classic and have it pre-installed on the phone. That way, people could've moved their old apps over. Back when the Pre was new, and Android wasn't the behemoth that it is now, having all those Palm OS apps would've at least put them in the number 2 spot for a while. Instead, they banked on developers making new apps, and relegated Classic to a paid add-on status.

At this point, I think Classic is irrelevant. PalmOS is too ancient to stand up to the likes of Android and iOS. (Is there anything you can do on PalmOS you can't do on Android or iOS?) It's true that there isn't a lot of room for newbies in the market, but this isn't the market for old farts, either.

Releasing the full APIs for the hardware would be a good start. It's a little embarrassing that almost two years in, WebOS phones don't have apps for scanning bar codes, recognizing music played in a room, etc. I know the homebrew community is up to the challenge if they're given the tools, but HP needs to cough them up, pronto.


RE: Not Really Sure About This...
Gekko @ 1/23/2011 4:44:21 AM # Q
>At this point, I think Classic is irrelevant. PalmOS is too ancient to stand up to the likes of Android and iOS.

agreed. the world has moved on a long time ago. does anyone really think this would significantly drive sales? of course not. Classic was already available for a small price at launch and it made no difference. giving it away free and bundling it wouldn't have done much more then or now.

>Is there anything you can do on PalmOS you can't do on Android or iOS?

this is the key question and the answer is no. and when i ask PalmOS App diehards what PalmOS app is so unique and critical and not available on Android or iPhone they can't give me an answer.


RE: Not Really Sure About This...
bhartman34 @ 1/23/2011 7:34:37 AM # Q
Gekko wrote:

giving it away free and bundling it wouldn't have done much more then or now.

I think giving it away for free at launch (as a lot of people were hoping they'd do, as I recall) would have been a way to say to the Palm faithful, "You don't have to leave your apps behind. You can take everything you love about your PalmOS device with you." The second you make someone pay for something, you're introducing a risk, however small. And some customers had significant investments tied up in these apps. (Look at apps like HandBase and the non-free version of Documents to Go.) People would've been a lot more comfortable making the jump if they knew that Classic was pre-installed from the get-go, so that they could use their old apps until substitutes came along.


RE: Not Really Sure About This...
Gekko @ 1/23/2011 7:44:26 AM # Q

did you ever use it? it was almost as buggy as the original FrankenGarnet. i'm not sure it would have made much of a difference in the grand scheme of things especially given all of the other missteps and shortcomings. come on - a bundled free Classic would not have stopped the onslaught and ultimate demise of Palm - and i hope that's not what you're saying. we would be in the same place we are today regardless.

RE: Not Really Sure About This...
bhartman34 @ 1/23/2011 9:35:03 AM # Q
Gekko wrote:

did you ever use it? it was almost as buggy as the original FrankenGarnet. i'm not sure it would have made much of a difference in the grand scheme of things especially given all of the other missteps and shortcomings. come on - a bundled free Classic would not have stopped the onslaught and ultimate demise of Palm - and i hope that's not what you're saying. we would be in the same place we are today regardless.

Do I think it would've made a huge difference? No. But regardless of how well Classic worked (and the few times I tried it, I was probably 50/50 in terms of success), the mere perception that you could take your apps with you from FrankenGarnet would've helped the Pre's adoption rate. I can't see it saving Palm from HP, because I don't think there were that many PalmOS users to save Palm. What that would've taken is a more sustained adoption rate outside of the PalmOS faithful.

The Pre's initial sales were good (not iPhone good, obviously, but good nonetheless). Where they tanked was in following-up. The ad campaign with the "creepy Pre girl" sucked, they bungled the release of the SDK, and they didn't put all their APIs on the table. And they probably didn't have the cash to follow-up on the Pre (or at least the Pixi) with a worthwhile successor. Rather than updating the phone to try and compete with the likes of Apple and Android, they just threw memory (and a slightly faster processor, in the case of the Pre 2) at the Pre and Pixi and hoped no one would notice that they were essentially the same phones.

I loved my Pre in the beginning. It's even an okay phone now. But since my contract is up in July, I'm becoming more and more convinced (unless they announce a new phone for Sprint in February) that my next phone will run Android.

RE: Not Really Sure About This...
LiveFaith @ 1/23/2011 11:57:31 AM # Q
Classic bundled would have been a nice bridge by Palm. They could have probably milked a "20,000 apps available" scheme as an ad point. Could have jumped right into the "we've got apps too" caravan.

Remember, reality does not have a lot to do with marketing and public perception. Apple has been masters at this. The average consumer believes that the iPod / Apple invented MP3 players, the iPhone is the first phone that can have apps added to it, a retina display actually means something and nobody else has it, and cut / paste is a new concept. They deserve credit for this.

Palm is the alter-ego concerning this. They laid egg after egg and Classic was not enough to save them. Like the lizard said, Classic itself is a buggy, not very valuable emulator.

They should have never abandoned true user sync of their data, and should have never outsourced backward compatibility with a relatively popular platform. But, they were well into the "in need of a miracle" category at that point anyway. Nada.
Pat Horne

RE: Not Really Sure About This...
Gekko @ 1/23/2011 12:33:23 PM # Q

so i've had my EVO for about 6 months now. just for shits and giggles i broke out my backup phone from storage - my old Centro. i have not touched my Centro in 6+ months. i took it out of the package and popped the battery back in. i was shocked to see the battery still at 99%! as you can imagine - it was strange and surreal to navigate around and view the very small square 2.2" 320x320 display. after about a minute i took the battery out and put everything back in the box and back in storage.

RE: Not Really Sure About This...
bhartman34 @ 1/23/2011 1:28:16 PM # Q
LiveFaith wrote:
They should have never abandoned true user sync of their data, and should have never outsourced backward compatibility with a relatively popular platform. But, they were well into the "in need of a miracle" category at that point anyway. Nada.

I don't think the user sync was much of an issue. It was certainly what Palm was most famous for, but Synergy meant being able to take anything on your phone and have access to it on multiple devices (among its other benefit of consolidating all your different information sources). The problem is, they didn't take Synergy far enough. If they had a Notes app that could sync with Google Docs the way the calendar app syncs with Google Calendar, that would've been huge. And as has been thoroughly discussed, notes should be more integrated with the calendar app. At one point, I was willing to chalk it up to Palm giving app developers room to come in with their own third-party solutions, but at this point, it's time for HP to step up and make the improvements.

RE: Not Really Sure About This...
Gekko @ 1/23/2011 1:35:50 PM # Q

yeah asking for cable sync and classic apps is like crying about not having a stylus. what do you want to blame next? no Athena connector support???

poor Developer support/relations/interest is a problem. Documents To Go?

RE: Not Really Sure About This...
bhartman34 @ 1/23/2011 3:44:14 PM # Q
I don't know. Maybe I'm weird, but I do miss styli. I used the Notepad app in PalmOS a lot. Being able to write on the screen is a better solution, in some situations, than typing.

I'd also like to see some decent support for Bluetooth. I could do a lot with a Stowaway-type keyboard and a Bluetooth-enabled Pre. I took notes like that on my Centro (albeit over IR, not Bluetooth). Retiring my Palm keyboard when I got my Pre was a tough blow.

RE: Not Really Sure About This...
Gekko @ 1/23/2011 4:34:04 PM # Q

this seems like a good deal for a budget conscious consumer -

$25/Month - Unlimited Data, Text, and 300 Anytime Minutes

http://www.virginmobileusa.com/cell-phone-plans/beyond-talk-plans.jsp

Samsung Intercept

http://www.virginmobileusa.com/cell-phones/samsung-intercept-phone.jsp

and coming soon?

http://www.androidcentral.com/virgin-mobiles-lg-optimus-v-priced-149

RE: Not Really Sure About This...
bhartman34 @ 1/23/2011 5:17:54 PM # Q
For the prices of those, though, I could stay on Sprint and get an EVO or EVO Shift. The Droid Incredible is also tempting, although I'd have to switch to Verizon, which I've heard mixed things about in my area.
RE: Not Really Sure About This...
Gekko @ 1/23/2011 5:29:35 PM # Q

i was talking about the Virgin Mobile service plan. $25/month is pretty good voice unlimited data + text + 300 voice minutes. really good for someone who makes few phone calls.

yes - if i was you i would stay with Sprint and get the EVO. my monthly bill is $73 after all discounts, fees, and taxes. i have Unlimited Voice Mobile to Mobile to ANY carrier, Unlimited Texts, MMS, Data, GPS, 4G, Voice 7pm, Nights & Weekends, and 450 Landline Minutes. great value.

what are you waiting for?

RE: Not Really Sure About This...
bhartman34 @ 1/23/2011 6:07:05 PM # Q
I'm waiting for July. :) I don't have the money right now to invest in a new phone, and by July, something better might come along, or the EVO might be cheaper. I'd love to upgrade from my Pre, but it doesn't suck so badly that I'd spend $100-$150 upgrading it. Especially since I don't know yet if HP will pull this one out and come up with a phone by July that I could actually buy and feel good about. It's certainly not looking good for HP, but I'm an optimist. ;)
RE: Not Really Sure About This...
mikecane @ 1/24/2011 4:07:06 PM # Q
Yo, Gekko, Sprint is screwing the pooch!

http://mikecanex.wordpress.com/2011/01/18/is-the-iphone-coming-to-sprint/

And I'm reallll pissed the tablet will not be on Sprint first. And apparently no 3G/4G tablet at the start either!

Reply to this comment

PDAs are dead

T_W @ 1/22/2011 7:01:44 PM # Q
What???? There is no way HPalm would release a handheld computing device without a built in cellular radio and phone.

Gartner said PDAs were dead 5 years ago. Noone is going to buy a handheld device simply for computing, personal management, media, and gaming.

Now excuse me, I have to go play Angry Birds on my iPod touch,

RE: PDAs are dead
Gekko @ 1/23/2011 4:36:45 AM # Q

iPods and iPads are not PDAs.

RE: PDAs are dead
gmayhak @ 1/23/2011 8:01:13 AM # Q
They are for me.
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RE: PDAs are dead
hotpaw4 @ 1/23/2011 5:50:31 PM # Q
Ok, someone doesn't want to call my iOS device a PDA. The small ones fit in my PalmPilot belt case. I cable and sync data on them to my Mac. I use them for short memos, calendar, todo list and contacts, and write software for them using an IDE which distantly reminds me of CodeWarrior. I even have a stylus for the capacitive touch screens (but seldom use it). Maybe someone thinks that they're not PDAs because they don't run on AAA batteries?
RE: PDAs are dead
dagwud @ 1/23/2011 5:58:20 PM # Q
Whether or not an iPhod or an Android phone serves as a PDA depends very much on the user.

The first apps I installed on my Android phone were ones that duplicated or approximated features of my Palm TX (e.g., gTasks). I use my phone for everything I used to use my Palm TX for - except I haven't bought HandDBase for Android yet.

PDAs aren't dead. They've just evolved.
--
PalmPilot Pro (1997) -> III (1998) -> Vx (1999) -> m500 (2001) -> m515 (2002) -> Tx (2007) -> HTC Aria (2010)

RE: PDAs are dead
LiveFaith @ 1/23/2011 6:13:54 PM # Q
Palm missed a good market for WebOS by missing out on a PDA. Could have popularized the platform and brought in more devs. I could care less, but gamers love WebOS.

I wonder if HP has it in the roadmap? It's just a tiny tablet afterall.
Pat Horne

RE: PDAs are dead
T_W @ 1/24/2011 11:20:35 AM # Q
Gekko wrote:

iPods and iPads are not PDAs.

Amazingly enough, I almost never have headphones plugged into my iPod touch. I must be using it wrong.

RE: PDAs are dead
Gekko @ 1/24/2011 11:26:29 AM # Q

you're an anomaly.

and probably a sadist and masochist too.


Reply to this comment

Will HP webOS Get Knocked Out Before Entering the Fight?

Gekko @ 1/23/2011 10:56:56 AM # Q

01.21.2011
Will HP webOS Get Knocked Out Before Entering the Fight?

What I am afraid HP will do on February 9th (I really hope I am wrong, but we will see):

1) Have no demo units (part of me is afraid they might not even show finished units on stage).

2) Pricing will not be released or discussed.

3) The lack of third-party interest will continue to be questioned, in which HP will simply say developers are really interested in the platform and they cant wait until apps start arriving.

4) HP will announce an extensive line-up of phones and tablets with silly names and useless features. People will forget their names and which product is which a few hours later.

5) HP wont announce any of this stuff and will simply talk about webOS 3.0.

HP webOS has potential, but in a mobile phone space where powerhouses like Microsoft are struggling and in a tablet market where Motorola and Samsung are having a hard time matching the right price points, HP will need to have luck in its corner for webOS to have a chance in this hard fight.

http://aaplorchard.tumblr.com/post/2864848020/will-hp-webos-get-knocked-out-before-entering-the

RE: Will HP webOS Get Knocked Out Before Entering the Fight?
bhartman34 @ 1/23/2011 11:45:46 AM # Q
I think any discussion of smartphones coming from the "AAPL Orchard" has zero chance of having any objectivity. It kind of shows in the article.

1) HP is hardly a "failing brand". In the printing space, they're still huge, and while HP laptops may be nothing to write home about (and I agree, since I owned one once a while back), at least HP can be said to have some competency in that space.

2) No Android tablets have gone past the demo stage? Seriously? Seriously?! Just what would you call the Galaxy Tab, a calculator? There's also the Dell Streak, which, while less popular than the Tab, has met with some success. And that's not even counting devices like the Nook Color, which can be rooted to run as an Android tablet, or the various offerings from Archos.

3) There are Android phones that can be had for < $100, but over $150-$200 (subsidized) is much more common. Less than $100 won't get you a current device. (And really, using the iPhone 3Gs to justify a $50 is pretty silly.)

4) HP couldn't possibly be stupid enough to release an unsubsidized tablet at $400. It's just not going to happen.

5) I think having multiple devices to show is a good thing. If you can use a shotgun approach, and aim at many different types of users at once, why wouldn't you? HP isn't the same cash-strapped entity that Palm was.

I can agree on some of the other things the author says (although I don't know where the fear of long-winded names comes from -- these aren't printers, after all). I'm particularly afraid that the app situation won't change, or that they won't even bother to mention top tier partners. (We've seen several companies -- including DataViz, that was announced as a partner at the damn Pre launch -- bail, and that really concerns me.)

I'm hoping for the best, but I think Android is looking much better to me than WebOS right now.

RE: Will HP webOS Get Knocked Out Before Entering the Fight?
gmayhak @ 1/23/2011 10:31:56 PM # Q
I'm sure Jobs is looking forward to HP's announcement so Apple can knock them out of the running with hardware specs and price point on iPad 2. We might be getting some great bargains soon ;-)
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RE: Will HP webOS Get Knocked Out Before Entering the Fight?
bhartman34 @ 1/24/2011 6:43:22 AM # Q
gmayhak wrote:
I'm sure Jobs is looking forward to HP's announcement so Apple can knock them out of the running with hardware specs and price point on iPad 2. We might be getting some great bargains soon ;-)

I'm more hopeful now than I was before HP bought Palm. Now, at least, there's some money to be put into development. I think the apps are going to be a much bigger hurdle than the hardware and price points.

RE: Will HP webOS Get Knocked Out Before Entering the Fight?
hkklife @ 1/24/2011 1:11:53 PM # Q
Gary;

You're not far from the money on that comment. Apple is close to running away with the entire market right now on the heels of the year-old, rather underwhelming iPad 1. If they bring even a handful of the anticipated improvements to the table with iPad 2 (dual-core, 2 cameras, slimmer design, better CPU/GPU), it'll be a real homerun unles HP makes a huge showing in Feb.

And if Apple gets even the slightest bit nervous, all they have to do is reduce their margins by a tad and drop the price of all the iPad SKUs by $25-$50 and they'll really decimate everyone else. I would expect the margins on the second-gen iPad to be comparable to those of the first-gen, so they'll definitely have some wiggle room if absolutely necessary. Adding Verizon to the mix with a real 3G model will only bolster their sales figures.
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid + Verizon Palm Centro-> Verizon Moto Droid X + Palm TX

RE: Will HP webOS Get Knocked Out Before Entering the Fight?
BaalthazaaR @ 1/24/2011 3:37:21 PM # Q
Quite possibly... HTC is rumored to be getting into the tablet game

http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/HTC-Flyer-tablets-rumored/

RE: Will HP webOS Get Knocked Out Before Entering the Fight?
mikecane @ 1/24/2011 4:09:47 PM # Q
There is an ominous rumor that Apple's event for iPad2 will be scheduled for February 9th, to squish Palm. I'm wondering why we haven't seen any news of Event invites sent out by Apple yet.
RE: Will HP webOS Get Knocked Out Before Entering the Fight?
jca666us @ 1/24/2011 9:56:53 PM # M Q
Feb 9th is too soon - verizon is releasing the iPhone 4 on verizon in that timeframe, so I'd expect apple's ipad2 announcement no earlier than Feb 15th.

They'll probably send out press invites before the 9th.

Reply to this comment

All of a sudden, HP has a chance!

hkklife @ 1/24/2011 9:32:15 AM # Q
Well, folks, I have been following the development of "quality non-Apple tablets' since before the iPad launch last year. Suffice to say, Palm, Google, RIM, Sony et al should be flogged for letting essentially an entire year go by and not developing anything even remotely close to a decent tablet.

Palm didn't have the cash but for Google to miss the boat on devices with screens larger than 4.3" is simply inexcusable. Nokia honestly came the closest to giving it a decent shot with their Internet Tablets from a few years ago (and they emulated Garnet too!).

Anyway, I was watching the Moto Xoom and Honeycomb with GREAT interest at its CES unveiling. But now due to the greed of the carriers and their hardware partners, they have priced this thing so beyond the realm of reason that Google has effectively ceded the tablet market to Apple without even firing a single shot. I don't care how good Honeycomb is, it will be decimated if it's only available at launch on a single piece of hideously overpriced & over-spec'd hardware from a carrier store (no competition on pricing). The cell phone carrier subsidy + exclusivity + overpriced hardware model is going to choke the life out of every non-iPad tablet out there unless HP comes through with a miracle.

I know probably a dozen people with iPads. Other than 1 or 2 power users, they ALL have the base 16gb wi-fi model . They check email, browse the web, check receipes/stocks/Ebay etc and maybe play a few games. They don't go nuts with media nor do they travel any farther than work or Starbucks with their iPads. The Xoom has killer specs but they are too killer for the target audience. At the very least, Moto obviously caved in to the pressure from their biggest customer (VZW) and refuses to release a lower-spec wi-fi tablet.

Suddenly it's up to the 2nd tier (or worse) firms such as Viewsonic, Archos, Coby etc. to release some decent no-name, rebranded Chinese wi-fi tablets to try and snag some of that <$400 market...again, unless HP comes through with a miracle. If I was sitting in front of some of the HP/Palm crew I would beat them over the head on the importance of pricing for the tablet market. These things are LUXURIES. Pepole are mostly not buying them to replace notebooks or desktops. They're complimenting smartphones and in some instances cannibalizing sales from netbooks (which is also Intel & MS's fault for being so strict on the netbook hardware requirements) but a tablet in its current guise is for media CONSUMPTION, not a CREATION device!

If HP can massage WebOS into nicely scaling up to a024x768+ resolutions and screen sizes and bring some more developers on board, they still stand a chance to snag a nice 2nd spot for consumer tablets. Apple never goes UP on their pricepoints. They will release an iPad 2 in a few months that will, at the very minimum, have a sleeker formfactor, a dual-core CPU, better GPU, and a pair of cameras. They will still have their ultra-successful 16GB @ $500 pricepoint. If HP can match them spec-for-spec at the same price points while tossing in a few extras (better cloud integration, microUSB + microSD slot), they honestly stand a chance.

My sheer virtue of the greed and incompetence of Moto/VZW/Google, they've opened the barn doors wide for HP to sneak in *IF* they announce something solid in Feb and deliver it in a timely fashion. If HP cannot hit retail shelves by the end of Q2, however, they'll be sunk too and Apple will have wrapped up the entire tablet market in a year's time (which is an extremely impressive feat in itself).
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RE: All of a sudden, HP has a chance!
Gekko @ 1/24/2011 11:27:04 AM # Q

they'll sell dozens!!!


RE: All of a sudden, HP has a chance!
AdamaDBrown @ 1/24/2011 12:38:51 PM # Q
"Palm didn't have the cash but for Google to miss the boat on devices with screens larger than 4.3" is simply inexcusable."

I'm not sure what you mean, hkk. The Motorola Xoom has a 10 inch screen, and the Samsung Galaxy has a 7" screen. Both are slated to be available in April. And the new Android 3.0 is specifically designed for larger screen tablets.

RE: All of a sudden, HP has a chance!
bhartman34 @ 1/24/2011 12:41:20 PM # Q
Gekko wrote:

they'll sell dozens!!!

You scoff, but I think HP has as good a chance as anyone else of selling a decent tablet. The UI is actually well-liked for tablets. Have you noticed the reaction of the tech press to the UI on the RIM PlayBook? What does that UI remind you of? And Palm always got high marks for the WebOS UI. Where they're going to have an issue is with the apps. I can only assume that HP is working on apps to introduce to the tablet to take advantage of the form factor. (For example, some note-taking app you could use with a stylus.) One could also imagine, since Amazon is associated with this, some integration with Amazon Unbox, letting people download movies to their tablets. And of course, syncing between the tablet and your WebOS phone would be key.

I'm not saying I'll necessarily stick around for it (unless there's a ramp-up of apps and I can justify going to an as-yet unreleased new WebOS phone) but I certainly wouldn't write it off out of hand. It doesn't take 100,000 apps to hold on. It only takes a few really good, innovative ones. I think HP has a chance to create those apps. I'm just worried they'll try to wait for third parties to do it.

RE: All of a sudden, HP has a chance!
hkklife @ 1/24/2011 1:07:35 PM # Q
Adama;

Sorry for not clarifying, I was trying to finish my rant in a rush before lunch.

What I meant was that Google never consider screens larger than 4.3"/854x480 res during the development of Android 2.x. They lost a good 16+ months in general on "tablet style" devices and essentially a solid year to Apple. There have been handful of very solid pieces of hardware (Viewsonic GTablet, Samsung Galaxy Tab #1) that Google simply pretended to believe do not exist....at the very minimum, giving those devices official access to Google Maps, Gmail and the Market with the usual "YMMV, use at your own risk, many programs will be incompatible" would have gone a long way to drumming up early Android tablet support.

While I can appreciate Honeycomb as THE official tablet OS, I still have yet to see an offiical statement if there will be wi-fi only Honeycomb devices and/or if those devices will have the full Google app load and Market access.

I still have yet to see a good reason why a properly certified "non-phone" device (ie with wi-fi only) cannot have Android Market access.
Sounds to me like a cash grab and collusion with the carriers than anything else. These companies seem to refuse to acknowledge the dire economic situation that continues to exist and that consumers simply cannot handle another $50+ monthly data package and/or another 2yr contract.

Also, Adama, I am also saying that unless Google and their hardware partners get some more affordable Honeycomb devices into the channel ASAP it will be DOA against the iPad 2. Therein lies the opportunity for HP to swoop in and at least give the lower-end iPads a run for their money in the crucial $500-$600 pricepoints.
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RE: All of a sudden, HP has a chance!
mikecane @ 1/24/2011 4:11:49 PM # Q
>>>Nokia honestly came the closest to giving it a decent shot with their Internet Tablets from a few years ago

Are you nuts? Nokia's "tablet" was an outright piece of shit from its birth to its death. Good riddance!

And the RIM Playbook is nothing a but right rip-off of webOS. In that sense, seeing it is good only as a light demo for what a true webOS tablet will bring.

RE: All of a sudden, HP has a chance!
LiveFaith @ 1/24/2011 6:11:22 PM # Q
If Apple even waited to begin work on the iPad2 immediately after the 1 release. AND, since the HP deal was not official for a couple of months later. THEN, how could HP possibly be bringing a better / = device than the iPad2 to bear in a month or so? Apple has a clear time advantage it appears to me.

That being said, HP has spent a looong time readying it's Slates, which got effectively axed when the buyout came, Therefore, they should have done plenty of initial R&D to be ready to roll out some serious devices as long as the Palm guys have gotten their scaled version of WebOS up and ready. Also, Palm may have had this in the pipeline already and topping off the software for the past 6 months may have been no problem.

Feb. 9 should be interesting. The non-Apple guys have certainly left the door open a bit.
Pat Horne

RE: All of a sudden, HP has a chance!
mikecane @ 1/25/2011 4:35:01 AM # Q
It doesn't have to be BETTER than the iPad, it just has to be GOOD ENOUGH. The Samsung GTab has shown that. And it will clearly better better than 99% of the Android tablets coming.

And I LOVE the fact the webOS tablet will have an IPS screen. I don't think others do. That's an In Your Face to Apple.

Also, HP has a big advantage in offering two sizes. A 7" tablet should not be underestimated. It's much more totable than a larger iPad.

RE: All of a sudden, HP has a chance!
bhartman34 @ 1/25/2011 6:33:03 AM # Q
I've gotta agree with you there. A 9" tablet would be DOA with me. The Dell Streak's a little small for me, but I think I could love a tablet at 7". That's only a little larger than my Kindle's screen. I could handle carrying something that size around. :)
RE: All of a sudden, HP has a chance!
mikecane @ 1/25/2011 4:27:11 PM # Q
I saw someone frikkin WALKING while checking out his list of emails on a GTab! (That's in addition to the nimrods who walk and read eBooks on their Nooks and Kindles... geez.)
RE: All of a sudden, HP has a chance!
bhartman34 @ 1/26/2011 8:32:14 AM # Q
Is walking and using an iPad difficult? I can't walk, and I've never used an iPad. :)
RE: All of a sudden, HP has a chance!
hkklife @ 1/26/2011 8:55:57 AM # Q
Of the Android tablets coming, NONE of them seem legitimately production-ready and/or to be available "really soon now" instead of the Xoom. Which, while looking nice, it godawfully overpriced, and is destined to flop harder and faster than any big-name tech release in recent memory.

Mike is right, though: no one is ASKING for an iPad-beater. They're simply asking for something COMPARABLE to an iPad in specs, features, usability, performance and, yes, pricing.


For me personally, here are MY tablet criteria:

-Not made by Apple (though I may give in to the lure of an iPad 2 if NOTHING else solid emerges)

-Good quality screen. At least 7" 1024x600. 800x480 or similar is a smartphone-caliber fail. I like the formfactor of the 7" screens but considering this thing will be used 90% of the time at home (on the couch, in bed or on the john), a 10" may be the way to go. It's good have good viewing angles and a glass (not plastic) capacitive screen. The Archos I have now is an unmitigated disaster as far as the responsiveness of its plastic screen. Personally, I think the current crop of 10.1" screens may be a tad too big. I'd like to see something like 1280x800 or 1366x768 on a 9" screen. Probably the perfect compromise between size and portability.

-Good battery life. User-replacable battery would be nice but I'm not gonna count on it

-At least 8gb of internal storage. A removable memory card slot would be nice since I have a handful of nice microSD cards sitting here that could go in it.

-At least a reasonable expectation of support from the manufacturer. HP will in all likelihood be better at this than the various Android clones but Apple usually takes the cake in this regard.

-Standardized ports (microUSB etc) are nice. No proprietary Samsung or Apple connectors for me, please! Charging via microUSB instead of a bulky AC connector would also be nice, as would having microHDMI output.

-Whether wi-fi or wi-fi/3G/4G, my drop-dead price limit is $499.99 and not a penny more. Apple has set the benchmark with the 16GB wi-fi iPad. Anyone venturing much beyond that is setting themselves up for disaster if it's their only tablet SKU (Xoom, Playbook). All these manufacturers need to at least come up with an entry-level model that matches or slightly undercuts the cheapest iPad SKU.

What is NOT important to me:

-3G/4G connectivity. If I want this, I'll buy a Virgin Mobile MyFi or hack or pay for wi-fi Hotspot connectivity on my Droid X. Just give me decent wi-fi reception on my tablet and I'll be happy.

-Dual-core SOC/powerful GPU. I would be fine with a "standard" Snapdrapon or OMAP 1Ghz CPU....basically, current 4.3" Android smartphone-level hardware. Besides, most of the current Android tablet performance shortcomings are due to the horrible memory management of Android 2.x
The Galaxy Tab runs fairly smoothly with its phone innards. I don't intent for this to be a 1080p playback machine or even a gaming rig (I hate these "console style" games that attempt to emulate a joystick or d-pad with an onscreen controls). If I want that kind of serious gaming, I'll get a PSP2. All I want it to do is play Angry Birds-style titles and handle HQ Youtube videos without hiccups.

-No carrier exclusivity/subsidies/contracts. Blow these things out at retail and with Amazon and let the retailers compete on price. I want a solid deal! 99% of the time I would never us the integrated WWAN connectivity, so why must I pay for the extra hardware?

-Webcam/onboard sound etc. I have plenty of cameras that can take far superior pictures. And if I want audio I'll plug in my headphones.


So with all that said, If I had to buy a tablet RIGHT NOW, it'd be a toss-up between the Nook Color, the Galaxy Tab, the Viewsonic G-Tablet or the current iPad.

The Nook is the chepaest, has a great screen and can be easily rooted/flashed to make it a poor man's Android tablet but there are still some reliability and compatibility issues.

The Galaxy Tab is as about as good as we're gonna get on a Froyo tablet, it's got official Market access and I love the formfactor (aside from the proprietary Samsung connector). Unsubsidized pricing is already down to $450 but I'd still like to see another $50 or $100 shaved off that price, since Samsung it likely never gonna release an OS update for that device. The first-gen GTab was basically DOA and intended to have something to sell for the 2010 holiday season.

The G-Tablet has a few coarse/rough edges (a bit bulky, no GPS or location finding capability, poor viewing angles, non-backlit capacitive buttons, mini USB instead of microUSB, uses a hideously bulky AC plug for charging) but there's no denying the horsepower this thing packs. 16gb internal + microsdhc slot + Tegra 2 & 10.1" 1024x600? For a good bit less than $400? And no locked bootloader and a rabid modding community? I'm tempted!

iPad....well, you all know that story. Still a bit bulky and heavy for my needs. And I still detest iTunes and the walled garden. Regardless, it's a solid device for the money and has firmly set the benchmark for the rest of the industry.
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RE: All of a sudden, HP has a chance!
mikecane @ 1/26/2011 3:15:25 PM # Q
>>>The Archos I have now is an unmitigated disaster as far as the responsiveness of its plastic screen

Is that a tablet? The 101? Was your screen installed properly?
http://mikecanex.wordpress.com/2010/12/16/nano-fondle-archos-101-internet-tablet/

Christ, stay away from the ViewSonics. They're utter crap. And the NookColor's screen is gorg-o-licious. There is supposed to be an update from B&N "any day now" I was told this past weekend that would also bring along Flash. So the rooting people will have new work to do.

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Topaz Specs are Up ...

LiveFaith @ 1/24/2011 6:22:56 PM # Q
PreCentral is reporting the Topaz specs tifwiw ...

http://www.precentral.net/topaz-specs-exclusive-details

1.2ghz dual core (Good)
9.8" 1024x768 (Average. You'll see pixels like a netbook. They needed to go higher to leapfrog everyone.)
WiFi(n) Thanks
8hr batteries ... nice.

... integrate the SW and offer some user value and this may work. HP HAS got marketing muscle. The creepy lady is distant past.

Pat Horne

RE: Topaz Specs are Up ...
jca666us @ 1/24/2011 7:21:20 PM # M Q
1.2 ghz dual core scorpion is great - if hp is selling this for $399

Everyone else appears to be going with dual core cortex a9 - which is lower consumption and 20% higher performance at comparable clock speeds.

8hr battery life - considering 24 hr watt battery - is ok, but nowhere near as good as 1st gen iPad.

Also no way of knowing how accurate those battery life ratings are.

1024 x 768 - as good as gen 1 iPad, but hopefully the screen is a quality part - either s-ips or h-ips.

RE: Topaz Specs are Up ...
bhartman34 @ 1/24/2011 10:30:38 PM # Q
I don't think there's a chance in hell that they'll sell a dual-core 1.2 Ghz tablet for $399. Why would they? The PlayBook is supposed to be priced at ~ $700, and the Xoom at $800. $399 simply isn't going to happen.

Given the fact that the PalmPad will have things the iPad doesn't (e.g., videoconferencing, wireless printing, 4G (where available)) it could end up competing okay. It still needs an app infusion, but the hardware's right up there with the other tablets coming to market now (and HP doesn't have that anti-Flash fetish that Apple does).

RE: Topaz Specs are Up ...
hkklife @ 1/25/2011 9:24:00 AM # Q
My whole point earlier was that I don't think anyone's begging for a $399 dual-core tablet. They are, however, expecting comparable specs/formfactor/storage to both the current iPad and the upcoming iPad 2, which may very well entail a $499 dual-core tablet. Since HP and Palm went 2010 with 1024x768 (good for e-book reading & photos, not so good for web browsing or movie-watching), I was hoping they'd come strong with their other specs. Howerver, I was honestly expecting HP to use a bunch of leftover Mini netbook panels, which would end up being 10.1" 1024x600. Let's hope for an IPS screen at least close to what Apple is using!

But really, all of this stuff at $700-$800 (Playbook, Xoom etc) is going to be DOA with the current economic situation. $499 is the key battleground for the tablet market. Just like when netbooks hit $299, HDTVs broke $999 and DVD/Blu-ray players broke $199, these things will hit critcal mass only when there is a decent assortment of nicely-spec'd units available at that "critical" pricepoint. Apple has set the bar at $500. As it stands now, unless Toshiba or someone stuns us, there is not going to be a single "name brand" 9" or 10" wi-fi tablet available at the $500 or below price within the next 5-6 months point aside from...Apple. Wow.

P.S. HP has missed the boat to atone for Palm's sins by not including a microSD slot. With the wireless carriers squeezing us DAILY for throttled speedwidth and data caps, it's only inevitable that things will continue to get worse. Why should I "want" to stream my media to me from the cloud when I have to keep an eye on a data usage widget at the same time?

I have 2x 32gb and 1x 16gb microsd cards. Prices are falling daily and SDXC is around the corner. Why not give us the ability to compliment these devices' internal storage? I run apps from my Droid X's 8gb internal space and keep all of my media, offline navigation maps etc on my 32gb card. It works flawlessly.
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RE: Topaz Specs are Up ...
mikecane @ 1/25/2011 4:30:32 PM # Q
>>>But really, all of this stuff at $700-$800 (Playbook, Xoom etc) is going to be DOA with the current economic situation. $499 is the key battleground for the tablet market.

Yes. Pricing will be a big factor. But IIRC, these will all be WiFi-only models first. And if they're very smart, they will attack the iPad with the 7" model coming out first and fast.

RE: Topaz Specs are Up ...
jca666us @ 1/25/2011 5:07:51 PM # M Q
iPad has wireless printing.

what iPad 2 will have is unknown, but it will compete on specs, and more importantly price.

Topaz cannot compete on quality or volume of 3rd party apps.

Apple doesn't support flash because it's a memory and CPU hog. the lack of flash is why apple can get 12+ hrs of battery life on a single charge.

if adobe can make flash more "mobile-friendly" I'm sure apple would support it. it's currently supported for developing apps in the app store.

RE: Topaz Specs are Up ...
Gekko @ 1/25/2011 5:23:31 PM # Q

what kind of asshole would buy a webOS tablet?

RE: Topaz Specs are Up ...
gmayhak @ 1/25/2011 8:20:55 PM # Q
Gekko,
Probably the same kind of asshole that bought a Centro a few years ago ;-o

Anyway, when you get over your Google fascination and want to join the technology leaders get rid of that crap and go Apple.

Gary
Tech Center Labs
www.talestuff.com
www.iTalentProductions.com

RE: Topaz Specs are Up ...
mikecane @ 1/26/2011 3:16:59 PM # Q
>>>iPad has wireless printing.

And Google has Cloud Printing. You think HP won't do likewise?! FFS, they make money with printing!

RE: Topaz Specs are Up ...
bhartman34 @ 1/27/2011 9:17:22 PM # Q
I didn't realize that the iPad did wireless printing. That's interesting.

The rationale that Apple uses doesn't really wash. Not when so many users are screaming for Flash. Look what happened when SkyFire was released in the App Store:

http://www.bgr.com/2010/11/03/no-flash-for-you-skyfire-pulled-from-ios-app-store/

Obviously, this is something that a lot of people are clamoring for. (For that matter, look how anxiously people have been waiting for Flash on WebOS.) Frankly, it amazes me that so many people buy Apple products when Apple consistently gives users the finger on things like this. Another example: Apple changed the function of the switch on the iPad from an orientation switch to a mute button. In that case, thankfully, Apple relented after complaints and at least let users decide what the switch would be used for.

RE: Topaz Specs are Up ...
jca666us @ 1/29/2011 2:47:25 PM # M Q
Flash is a ball and chain for any mobile device.

Until adobe can optimize flash to the point where it's not a battery and CPU hog, I'd rather not have flash running natively.

Flash running on my iPad drained 30% of my battery in less than an hour.

I'd rather have battery life over a resource hungry flash.

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