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Comments on: Pre 2 to Cost $50 More from Verizon than from HP

verizon palm pre 2 price If a four-month delay from announcement to retail shelves wasn't enough to hinder the Verizon Pre 2's chances of market success, arriving at retail after the announcement of its much more potent successor should have taken the remaining wind out of the handset's sails. Now Verizon Wireless has seen fit to add a bit of additional insult to injury by announcing their pricing for the Pre 2 will run $150 after a $50 mail-in rebate through their corporate stores and web site with the usual 2 year agreement. This rings in at a good $50 above the price mentioned last week through HP's Wireless Central where pre-orders are still ongoing.

While carrier-direct pricing is usually higher than that offered by resellers and indirect agents, this still is not going to improve the Pre 2's chances at retail, what with the bulk of Verizon's marketing push going to the new CDMA iPhone 4 and a variety of Android-powered handsets that are available at the same $199 pre-rebate, out the door price. The Pre 2 will be available in-store and online starting Thursday, February 17th.

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three OS players

Gekko @ 2/15/2011 1:05:55 PM # Q

"I do want a strong third OS out there," Melone said. "It gives the carriers more flexibility and balances the interests of all the parties. But I still have doubts whether Microsoft will get the traction they are hoping for with Windows Phone 7... I don't think Verizon needs the Nokia and Microsoft relationship," he said. "Right now the three OS players we see for our network are Android, Apple, and RIM. "

http://gizmodo.com/#!5761167/verizon-cto-doesnt-need-no-stinkin-wp7

RE: three OS players
Surur @ 2/15/2011 4:29:07 PM # Q
Sure looks like the third OS to me, even if Nokia's market share is halved.
http://wmpoweruser.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/n2.jpg
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RE: three OS players
Gekko @ 2/15/2011 5:01:24 PM # Q

welcome back Surur. you are late to the Palm, Inc. funeral pyre. years ago (2005ish) many of us here gave dire warnings and predicted the death of Palm, Inc. unless they started innovating quickly and now here we are as predicted. however - what none of us could foresee was who with be the winners today. Apple and Google. i always thought MSFT would bring something great to the table and win massive share but IMO WP7 is bad. that "Metro" UI is awful, clunky, unintuitive, and inefficient. not sure what that chart is you're showing - a prophecy or a prediction or what but IMO WP7 is toast. glad i sold my MSFT long ago.

RE: three OS players
mikecane @ 2/15/2011 6:06:23 PM # Q
Good freakin god!! Surur! Am I hallucinating?!

Nokia/W7 will go nowhere. This is FAIL + FAIL.

iOS, Android, webOS.

All others need not bother.

RE: three OS players
AdamaDBrown @ 2/16/2011 9:07:31 PM # Q
Gekko, Microsoft did bring a pretty solid platform to the party during the WM5 to WM6.1 years. But they failed to learn the lessons about how to innovate right, and most importantly to anticipate future development needs, not just improving what they had. And then all that pent-up need for revolution kicked in, and they revolved the entire platform out the door.

Surur, I'm not convinced that the Nokia deal is going to be a long term solution for either side. Microsoft has basically bought the value of the Nokia name by giving them favorable terms, but how many developers is that going to attract?

Mike, if WP7 is going nowhere--and I tend to agree--webOS is going there first. HP's devices have no serious advantages over the Microsoft offerings when they're being forced to compete with Android and iOS.

Melone is right--the most likely "third OS player" is going to be an evolved Blackberry platform, catering heavily to business needs not served by Apple and Android. RIM still has a massive mind-share in the Blackberry name, as well as an established following of business people and professionals who are reluctant to jump to a new platform.

RE: three OS players
BaalthazaaR @ 2/17/2011 7:28:35 AM # Q
Actually I think that RIM has one advantage that Android/WebOS do not have. The let you have your own BB server so your data can reside on some place that you control. Especially for business, the prevalent practice is to maintain control of your data as much as possible.
RE: three OS players
Gekko @ 2/17/2011 7:36:15 AM # Q

Microsoft Exchange Server with EAS is an open platform that can sync mail to any device with EAS support (WP7, Android, iPhone, etc.). no need for the additional expense, support, additional complexity, and closed hardware options of RIM BB servers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exchange_ActiveSync

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PalmOS Mobile Web Browsing Circa 2005

mikecane @ 2/19/2011 8:56:30 AM # Q
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TouchPad appears designed to fail

Gekko @ 2/20/2011 11:11:56 AM # Q
RE: TouchPad appears designed to fail
numlock @ 2/20/2011 11:21:37 AM # M Q
His point about the name lameness is spot on.
RE: TouchPad appears designed to fail
jca666us @ 2/20/2011 1:48:35 PM # M Q
I don't see the name being the issue with the TouchPad - the bigger problem is where's the value proposition?

What is the one thing the TouchPad has that the iPad lacks?

HP never defined it - and if HP can't demonstrate why a touchpad is a better choice than an iPad - who's going to buy it?

Right now, touchpad is looking stillborn...

RE: TouchPad appears designed to fail
Gekko @ 2/20/2011 4:53:47 PM # Q

"Developers don't develop for low-volume platforms, and this creates a huge cart-and-horse type problem: The users won't buy without the apps, and the app developers won't port without the users."

RE: TouchPad appears designed to fail
gmayhak @ 2/20/2011 5:17:23 PM # Q
"Developers don't develop for low-volume platforms, and this creates a huge cart-and-horse type problem: The users won't buy without the apps, and the app developers won't port without the users."

Add to that, developers who've been pissed on and abandoned will also steer clear.
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RE: TouchPad appears designed to fail
AdamaDBrown @ 2/21/2011 11:50:43 AM # Q
"I don't see the name being the issue with the TouchPad - the bigger problem is where's the value proposition?"

This is exactly the problem, right here.

The TouchPad may be a fine device. It may be in every matter of hardware and interface the equal of the iPad. But what is going to prompt someone to choose this OVER the iPad, when the latter comes with an established platform, library of apps, and line of accessories?

RE: TouchPad appears designed to fail
hkklife @ 2/21/2011 1:09:34 PM # Q
Hmmmm, let's look at the potential reasons why someone may pick it over an iPad:

-Better CPU. A very valid point now when comparising it to the first-gen iPad but will likely rendered completely moot once the iPad 2 arrives. In fact, I would not rule out the iPad 2 beating the Touchpad to market.

-Better UI? Possible, but people "know" the iOS UI now and it's like a comfortable old shoe. I don't see the average Joe worrying about iOS' poor handling of notifications or wanting SO BADLY to have device that uses WebOS' card metaphor.

-Better multitasking. See above.

-Avid fans of Flash. They've probably already decided to go with an Android device. The ones with big $ will get a Xoom and the frugal ones will get a Galaxy Tab, GTablet or similar or a rooted Nook Color. Besides, I don't trust HP/Palm/Adobe at ALL anymore when it comes to promises about Flash or OS updates.

-Lighter weight. No chance. The cheapest iPad looks and feels like a much pricier, more exclusive device.

-Integration with WebOS smartphones & Touchstone docks. A nifty little extra but nothing worth excluding the iPad's enormous app & accessory ecosystem. And the number of power users desiring a Pre + TouchPad combo probably numbers in the dozens.

-Full cloud connectivity (ie no iTunes). Probably the biggest thing in HP's favor. Still, people seem strangely forgiving of having to plug in that horrid little white cable to sync & install OS updates. Or, in my experience, they simply cannot be bothered and never plug in or update their i devices past the initial first-time setup.

-USB drag & drop mass storage. The 2nd biggest thing in HP's favor, at least as far as the geek crowd is concerned. Again, to your average soccer mom and teenybopper audience, the lack of iTunes will probably SCARE them.

-HP's Wireless printing integration. No importance at all other than to the grandaprent types who print everything may try to use a tablet to replace a PC.

So, yeah, it becomes quite appraent that HP is going to have to either drastically undercut Apple (preferably at the cheapest wi-fi version) in pricing or very quickly introduce a follow-up model with a very superior feature set. But really, their huge delay from Feb announcement to summer availability was pretty much the death blow from the start.
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid + Verizon Palm Centro-> Verizon Moto Droid X + Palm TX

RE: TouchPad appears designed to fail
jca666us @ 2/21/2011 3:45:06 PM # M Q
Thought I'd follow on w/ a few comments:

-Better CPU.
Better CPU, but from the videos I've seen, touchpad has much slower performance than first generation iPad - iOS is better optimized then webos.
iPad 2.0 - with similar cpu specs to the touchpad - will obliterate the competition wrt performance - any apps written to support grand central dispatch will already support dual core cpu's.

-Better UI?
Compared to iOS 4.x, I'd tend to agree - exception being the responsiveness of the UI compared to iOS.  The real wildcard is iOS 5.0 - which should be released around the time the touchpad is released.

-Better multitasking.
iOS has superior battery life because Apple doesn't allow apps to run wild in the background - not because they can't allow it.  Better in this case is subjective, but I'd argue Apple's solution is better for most people if you look at the use cases for tablet devices.

-Avid fans of Flash.
I'm an avid fan of flash on a desktop pc.  With a mobile device, battery life is key.  Say goodbye to battery life if you're using flash.

-Lighter weight. 
Not compared to iPad 2.0 - and as you mention iPad's build quality is top notch.

-Integration with WebOS smartphones & Touchstone docks.
This is a feature?  Lol

-Full cloud connectivity (ie no iTunes). Probably the biggest thing in HP's favor.
This assumes apple is standing still - they're not.

-USB drag & drop mass storage.
This is good if hp is targeting the touchpad at a more technical market.

-HP's Wireless printing integration.
Can't be any better then the iPads integrated printing - which is compatible with hp's printers.

So, yeah, it becomes quite appraent that HP is going to have to either drastically undercut Apple.

They should undercut Apple - in an effort to build marketshare, but as all of the other iPad competitors are finding - it's very difficult to do.

RE: TouchPad appears designed to fail
Gekko @ 2/21/2011 4:19:41 PM # Q

iOS and Android appears to be much more optimized/efficient than does webOS.

http://www.ubergizmo.com/2011/02/rubinstein-palm-pre-pre-plus-and-pixi-not-getting-webos-2-0-upgrade/

CPU specs don't matter if inefficient buggy laggy OS bogs it down.

RE: TouchPad appears designed to fail
Gekko @ 2/21/2011 4:40:53 PM # Q

what about the "cool" factor? isn't HP "cooler" than Apple???

RE: TouchPad appears designed to fail
gmayhak @ 2/21/2011 5:27:31 PM # Q
RE: TouchPad appears designed to fail
Gekko @ 2/22/2011 10:20:31 PM # M Q

And so begins the reign of Apotheker -

http://m.cnbc.com/us_news/41721187/1

RE: TouchPad appears designed to fail
jca666us @ 2/22/2011 11:02:46 PM # M Q
More like the reign of Apocalypse
And so begins the reign of Apotheker -
Gekko @ 2/22/2011 11:42:20 PM # Q

RE: Better but still too little, too late
Gekko @ 10/13/2010 7:27:02 AM #

p.s. i predict that Apotheker will soon run HP back into the ground and after several abysmal quarters his head will roll along and all unprofitable unsuccessful "ventures" like Palm and webOS will be shut down.
when times are good - everyone is fat and happy and there's a lot of margin for error. when times are bad - everyone starts pointing the finger at everyone else and they start looking under every rock to cut costs and trim fat.

http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/9586/first-palm-pre-2-pictures-emerge/

RE: TouchPad appears designed to fail
jca666us @ 2/23/2011 1:18:39 AM # M Q
I figure after webos tanks - yet again - hp will gut it within a year or so.

The only way to polish that turd is to dump hundreds of millions of dollars into it.

How long before HP produces a webos skin for a line of android/windows 7 devices?

RE: TouchPad appears designed to fail
Gekko @ 2/23/2011 1:21:23 AM # Q

Apotheker defends HP's strategy

By Richard Waters in San Francisco
Published: February 22 2011 23:42 | Last updated: February 22 2011 23:42
Hewlett-Packard's new chief executive officer issued a strong defence of his company's wide-ranging strategy, as signs of weakness in some parts of its business brought an abrupt end to his four-month honeymoon at the helm.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/bc9bcdaa-3ed7-11e0-834e-00144feabdc0.html?ftcamp=rss#axzz1EjyYZp8k

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Sprint HTC EVO 3D

Gekko @ 3/22/2011 6:12:37 AM # Q

Specs and details of anticipated devices from HTC for CTIA 2011, the HTC EVO 3D and HTC EVO View 4G have been leaked, the BGR reports that the Sprint HTC Evo 3D will feature 4.3-inch qHD 960 x 540 autostereoscopic 3D display, a 1.2GHz dual-core Snapdragon 8660 processor, twin 5-megapixel cameras on the back for shooting 3D photos and video, and an HDMI port for outputting 1080p HD regular video and 720p HD 3D video.

The report also says that The Evo 3D will come with 4.3-inch qHD 960 x 540 autostereoscopic 3D display, a 1.2GHz dual-core Snapdragon 8660 processor, twin 5-megapixel cameras on the back for shooting 3D photos and video, and an HDMI port for outputting 1080p HD regular video and 720p HD 3D video. 1GB of RAM and a 4GB ROM are also rumored, along with both a Blockbuster 3D On Demand app and a YouTube 3D app.

http://techprezz.com/2011/03/sprint-htc-evo-3d-smartphone-evo-view-4g-tablet-details-leaked/

RE: Sprint HTC EVO 3D
Tuckermaclain @ 3/22/2011 12:59:10 PM # Q
Yes, yes. Now I can view my Fart app in 3-D if I wear the goggles. It still doesn't have any really good PIM software.
RE: Sprint HTC EVO 3D
Gekko @ 3/22/2011 4:02:04 PM # Q

while the specs are nice, i will probably just keep my EVO and skip this 3D and save my upgrade for the next version. there's just not enough of an update here for me to burn my upgrade on.

RE: Sprint HTC EVO 3D
gmayhak @ 3/22/2011 7:01:10 PM # Q
Smart move Gekko, they are just trying to find a gimmick to one-up Apple. What they are really doing is trashing the resolution for the couple dozen people that it will impressed... https://www.3deecentral.com/whatis. It's already available for iPhone but at least it's a cover screen that you can remove.

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RE: Sprint HTC EVO 3D
gmayhak @ 3/22/2011 7:12:38 PM # Q
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