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Comments on: More Details on the Final TouchPad Production Run

HP TouchPad 4G Taiwanese Industry publication DigiTimes has posted a new article today giving some possible quantities alongside a timeframe for the "final batch" of clearance-priced TouchPads. According to the article, late October is when eager WebOS fans will have an opportunity to snag a final new TouchPad, as HP is planning on aiding their component supplies by assembling 100,000 to 200,000 unassembled 9.7-inch TouchPads. No additional information was given regarding the allocation of 16, 32, and 64GB versions or if any HSPA 4G TouchPads would be included in this final run.

Another interesting bit of info from the DigiTimes article cites an Inventec source in stating that that the smaller 7-inch TouchPad "Go/Opal" has indeed been abandoned and no units will be produced. Today's update comes on the heels of another DigiTimes article from Tuesday that reported HP's suppliers in Taiwan (including ODM Inventec) are sitting on various components for approximately 100,000 7-inch TouchPads that were originally slated to begin production at the end of this quarter. It is highly unlikely at this point that a production-ready 7" TouchPad will ever see the light of day, unlike the more established 9.7" versions.

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The mobile world is about to turn UPSIDE DOWN.

Fake Jeff Hawkins @ 9/3/2011 3:42:00 PM # Q
Hopefully people are starting to finally figure things out. A while back I had written:

"Recalled stock + warehoused HP stock + en route stock + pre-ordered TouchPads = enough to FLOOD the tablet market and wreak havoc on the pricing structure of ALL competitors.

1,000,000 devices were contracted for first phase of launch (July, August, September, October, 2011).

16 GB
32 GB
64 GB
32 GB 4G

True sales July 1 - August 19 = less than 200,000 (including returns)
Firesale August 19 - August 22 = 350-400,000
Remaining stock = 400-450,000
[I don't believe they had committed to the 7 inch tablet that was supposed to ship in October...]"

Then the rascals at DigiTimes basically copy what I had leaked in their article, saying:
http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20110901PD218.html

HP to launch second-round sales promotion of TouchPad to clear supply chain inventory


Yenting Chen, Taipei; Steve Shen, DIGITIMES [Friday 2 September 2011]

Hewlett-Packard (HP) plans to launch a second sales promotion for its 9.7-inch TouchPads in late October in an attempt to clear out inventories of components in the supply chain, according to industry sources.

HP originally released orders for 900,000-1.1 million 9.7-inch TouchPads to Inventec and has taken deliveries of 800,000-900,000 units, said the sources, noting that the shipped TouchPads were nearly all sold out after the vendor slashed the tablet's price to US$99.

In an effort to mend its relationship with component suppliers and channel operators, HP decided to help them clear out inventories, including touch panels, batteries and chassis, equivalent to 100,000-200,000 units of 9.7-inch TouchPads, the sources pointed out.

HP has apparently abandoned its production plan for a 7-inch tablet PC model, with its ODM partner Inventec noting at a recently held investors conference that there will be no more follow-up orders for TouchPads from HP.

hkklife, I'm trying to give you the scoop here: start interviewing managers of brick and mortar tablet vendors about the COMPLETE COLLAPSE of tablet sales since HP pulled its Scorched Earth attack 2 weeks ago. PlayBook is next. It's gonna get UGLY.

Here are a few other headlines from my Digitimes pals:


1) Intel reportedly plans to back off MeeGo OS

Monica Chen, Taipei; Steve Shen, DIGITIMES [Friday 2 September 2011]


Intel reportedly plans to temporarily discontinue development of its MeeGo OS due to a lack of enthusiasm for the platform from handset and tablet PC vendors. Instead, Intel will focus on hardware products, with its handset platforms to be paired with either Android or Windows Phone in 2012, according to industry sources.

In response, Intel said it does not comment on industry speculation or rumor. The company did say it remains committed to MeeGo and will continue to work with the community to develop and help meet the needs of customers and end users with open source.

The MeeGo was initiated by Intel and Nokia in March 2010, and the two companies have since then set up a joint innovation center to develop the product. However, Nokia has recently shifted its resources to develop new devices based on Windows Phone 7 as the research results from the joint innovation center have fallen short of expectations, the sources indicated.

Some market observers also concerned about the prospects for MeeGo OS as none of the major device vendors has rolled out MeeGo-based products such as tablet PCs or netbooks for the mainstream market.



2) Sony, Amazon tablets to have strong competitiveness with content advantages


Aaron Lee, Taipei; Joseph Tsai, DIGITIMES [Friday 2 September 2011]


As both Amazon and Sony are set to launch tablet PCs in the near future, sources from PC players believe the two players' advantages in their content library will allow their products to feature strong competitiveness in the market and should relatively boost the morale of Android-based device vendors.

For tablet PCs, strong back-end content and platform support providing consumers an excellent usage experience have already become major factors to drive market demand since tablet PCs are not meant to be used for data creation, but instead for data consumption, the sources noted.

Amazon's strong e-book library and retail channel platform as well as Sony's gaming content and gamer support are expected to provide the two players strength to compete in the tablet PC market.


3) Amazon 10-inch tablet PC to start mass production in 1Q12


Yenting Chen, Taipei; Joseph Tsai, DIGITIMES [Wednesday 31 August 2011]


Mass production of Amazon's 10.1-inch tablet PC reportedly will be conducted in the first quarter of 2012 with Foxconn Electronics (Hon Hai Precision Industry) to handle the orders, according to sources from upstream component suppliers.

In addition to the tablet PC, Amazon also outsources its Kindle e-book reader to Foxconn with an estimated volume of 15-18 million units, accounting for 60-70% of global e-book reader shipments of 25-30 million units in 2011.

Amazon's 7-inch tablet PC, which is supplied by Quanta Computer, is expected to start shipping in October, the sources added.


4) Samsung reportedly recruits ex-HP VP for PC business; considers buying webOS


Max Wang and Aaron Lee, Taipei; Joseph Tsai, DIGITIMES [Monday 29 August 2011]


Samsung Electronics, despite refuting reports it plans to take over Hewlett-Packard's (HP's) PC business, reportedly has already recruited HP's ex-vice president of PSG marketing Raymond Wah to handle Samsung's PC sales, and the company is also reportedly considering purchasing webOS to compete head on against Apple and Google, according to sources from notebook players.

Both HP and Samsung have declined to comment about the purchase of webOS.

The sources noted that the acquisition of HP's PC business, which has a rather low gross margin, may turn out to hurt Samsung's panel and DRAM businesses that have rather high gross margins, therefor HP's webOS may be the target that Samsung has the most interest in.

In addition, Google's acquisition of Motorola, which may seriously threaten hardware brand vendors, could also trigger Samsung to purchase webOS as a counter measure, the sources added


5) Tablet PC fever is already cooling down, says Acer chairman

Aaron Lee, Taipei; Joseph Tsai, DIGITIMES [Thursday 25 August 2011]


Acer chairman JT Wang, commenting on tablet PC's impact on the notebook industry, pointed out that tablet PC fever is already starting to cool down and consumers are also being attracted by notebooks again with Intel's Ultrabooks and Microsoft's Windows 8 the major attractions.

Acer is already set to launch an Ultrabook in September with a price as low as US$799, noted Wang adding that Acer has performed surveys and discovered that consumers have a high interest in Ultrabooks.

Some players in the PC industry agree with Wang's prediction and pointed out that tablet PCs are mainly marketed for entertainment purposes, different from notebooks, which are also tools for work and learning. Therefore, once the tablet PC market reaches saturation, consumers' motivation to replace tablet PCs will be a lot lower than for notebooks, causing tablet PC sales to stagnate once volumes reach a certain level.

In addition to Acer and Asustek Computer, which plan to launch Ultrabooks in September, Dell, Toshiba, Lenovo and Hewlett-Packard (HP) are all set to launch models in the fourth quarter of 2011 or the first quarter of 2012. Taiwan-based makers of components such as batteries, hinges and chassis have also started small volume pilot production, and are set to start mass shipments in the fourth quarter.

Acer president Jim Wong pointed out that although Ultrabooks will only account for a small portion of notebook shipments in 2011, the percentage is expected to reach 25-35% in 2012, a number close to Intel's prediction of 40% by the end of 2012.

As for Windows 8, Wang believes that the operating system will contribute a stronger sales boost to notebooks than tablet PCs and will also benefit brand vendors during the back-to-school season in 2012 as the operating system's launch date will be close to that period.


- Fake Jeff Hawkins

RE: The mobile world is about to turn UPSIDE DOWN.
jca666us @ 9/4/2011 3:04:24 AM # Q
And meanwhile Apple sells 80 million tablets and makes a handsome profit off each one.

The mobile world has already turned upside down.

RE: The mobile world is about to turn UPSIDE DOWN.
Fake Jeff Hawkins @ 9/4/2011 5:24:43 PM # Q
And meanwhile Apple sells 80 million tablets and makes a handsome profit off each one.

The mobile world has already turned upside down.

Apple has had its moment in the sun, but things can change quickly. Apple's competitors have done some pretty stupid things over the past few years and essentially handed Apple the smartphone and tablet markets. (Remember Colligan's imbecilic statement about "PC guys" not being capable enough to "just walk in"? Remember the Microsoft Kin? Remember the Palm Pre? Remember the HP TouchPad? Well Samsung, Amazon and - most importantly Microsoft - have been paying attention and are now sharpening their knives. With Steve Jobs now gone from Apple I expect the competition to start breaking down the Apple mystique. Killing the iPad market ASAP by offering tablets at giveaway prices is the best way to stop Apple in its tracks before they get too big. iPad needs to be Netscaped. Now.

Fake Jeff Hawkins

RE: The mobile world is about to turn UPSIDE DOWN.
jca666us @ 9/4/2011 5:48:29 PM # Q
lol - the only way Apple can be stopped is by companies innovating - nothing less.

Dumping cheap iPad knockoffs to market won't do it.

RE: The mobile world is about to turn UPSIDE DOWN.
nastebu @ 9/4/2011 6:48:24 PM # Q
FJH, care to put some numbers on the table? Are you saying that Apple's iPad sales will be seriously affected by HP's dumping next quarter? Care to be specific about how much of a drop in sales growth you would predict?
RE: The mobile world is about to turn UPSIDE DOWN.
jca666us @ 9/4/2011 9:24:04 PM # M Q
Nastebu,

Apples estimated to sell 20 million iPads next quarter.

Hp is dumping (at most) a million devices - doubtful those sales will impact apple at all, but I can see it affecting the android tablet market - considering its the cheapest tablet that can run android.

RE: The mobile world is about to turn UPSIDE DOWN.
Fake Jeff Hawkins @ 9/4/2011 10:44:25 PM # M Q
FJH, care to put some numbers on the table? Are you saying that Apple's iPad sales will be seriously affected by HP's dumping next quarter? Care to be specific about how much of a drop in sales growth you would predict?

1) The numbers I'm hearing from the past 2 weeks is a 90% decline in Android tablet sales and a 50% decline in iPad sales.

2) Android tablets are about to become commoditized and Amazon has the ability to flood the market at will with sub-$200 Android tablets. Amazon is also willing to fork Android at will. Google knows this.

3) Apple's name and closed ecosystem insulates them somewhat, but they are still vulnerable to attack, as the TouchPad debacle has shown. Samsung is already cranking out Android tablets with better hardware, lower price and more sizes than iPad. If Apple's lawsuits don't hold up, Samsung will hurt Apple.

4) Specific prediction on revised iPad sales will depend on variables of:
- how many more TouchPads are released
- how effectively HP hypes TouchPad sales
- how many more tablets slash prices as a response to TouchPad (RIM is next, with 50% off PlayBook later this week)
- whether or not Apple bows to price pressure and lowers iPad prices by $100. Doing so devalues the iPad brand and reduces profits but not doing so risks losing market share...
- how quickly Amazon floods market with cheap tablets


I'll go on record that - assuming no other drastic changes occur - iPad sales OR profits will be at least 25% lower than what has been expected for the next 3 months.

Samsung and Amazon are the wild cards in all of this. Apple could easily start to lose a huge amount of market share over the remainder of 2011.

Fake Jeff Hawkins

Apple's worst nightmares coming true?
Fake Jeff Hawkins @ 9/4/2011 11:04:29 PM # M Q
Apple's worst nightmare:

- Loss of Steve Jobs
- Microsoft enters tablet and smartphone worlds with credible entries
- competitors flood new, unstable tablet market with millions of tablets selling at half (or less) the cost of iPad
- Android develops into a legitimate iOS competitor
- webOS is purchased by a company with the resources to properly develop it
- lawsuits against Samsung are lost
- technical difficulties delay new iPhone and iPad releases
- loss of iPhone 5 prototype
- RIM's QNX platform matures into a capable smartphone and tablet OS
- Amazon (and to a lesser degree Sony) leverage access to their CONTENT as a means of boosting their tablet sales
- privacy issues fuel hysteria over iOS
- consumers become skittish, unsure whether to buy now or wait for price cuts + better features; sales stagnate

A perfect storm is brewing. Sudden change is in the air...

FJH

RE: The mobile world is about to turn UPSIDE DOWN.
jca666us @ 9/5/2011 5:58:24 AM # M Q
iPad sales 25% less then expected?

I'll take that bet - if amazon floods the market with cheap color tablets - it'll be Xmas of 2012 - too soon to pull that kind of stunt.

RE: The mobile world is about to turn UPSIDE DOWN.
rak @ 9/5/2011 7:26:03 AM # Q
FJH,

Your posts are most interesting and intriguing. Do you see in your crystal ball any worthwhile future for WebOS (software and/or hardware). Curious !!!

RE: The mobile world is about to turn UPSIDE DOWN.
abosco @ 9/5/2011 8:17:30 AM # M Q
competitors flood new, unstable tablet market with millions of tablets selling at half (or less) the cost of iPad

These companies have shown us that they have no ability to match Apple on specs and price, yet still turn a profit. Now you're saying they're going to undercut Apple? Apple has premiere deals with flash memory and LCD suppliers because of the enormous volumes they command.

These companies are grasping at straws. None of them are able to crack Apple's stranglehold on the tablet market. Until Apple gives poor earnings guidance, it's all bullshit.

RE: The mobile world is about to turn UPSIDE DOWN.
nastebu @ 9/5/2011 9:24:37 AM # Q
Just for precision's sake, you mean 25% below Apple's projections, right? You're not going to cherry pick some crazy super optimistic analyst later and claim victory.

We'll see how you do on your RIM prediction. (1.) That they will discount by 50% by the end of the week. This seems quite possible to me.)

A few other short term predictions that I can cherry pick from what you wrote (can you put dates on them?):

2.) HP will continue releasing TouchPads beyond the 100,000 or so made up from unassembled parts.
3.) HP will launch a publicity campaign to sell these tablets.
4.) Amazon releases a cheap tablet in numbers that will "flood the market."

RE: The mobile world is about to turn UPSIDE DOWN.
Fake Jeff Hawkins @ 9/5/2011 10:06:47 AM # Q
FJH,
Your posts are most interesting and intriguing. Do you see in your crystal ball any worthwhile future for WebOS (software and/or hardware). Curious !!!

Thank you. Just trying to keep Palminfocenter alive by posting here. It's a shame how few people are willing to debate on the site these days. In the old days PIC was as exciting as a Wild West shootout, with frequent damage being inflicted on the likes of Aunty Mike Cane and Jeff "The Kirvinator" Kirvin.

webOS has 2 possible fates:

1) Bought by Samsung (possibly along with HP's computer division) and used to launch an all out attack on Apple, as well as to differentiate Samsung's desktops, laptops, printers, etc. i.e. Samsung does what HP claimed it was going to do. Samsung makes the best tablet hardware around and makes most of the components itself, so it can afford to price hardware at a level that undercuts Apple. Apple's lawsuits show the degree to which it now fears Samsung. Samsung realizes it was suckered by Google with Android and could segue out of Android devices by buying webOS. The problem is that webOS is an incomplete OS, with much work still to be done both on the OS and development environment. (HP did not realize how underdeveloped webOS was when it purchased Palm because it's due diligence people are incompetent.) But based on how well the crude TouchPad performs once it is optimized by overclocking and removing intrusive data logging, even the current version of webOS on current Samsung tablet and smartphone hardware would severely damage Apple. Samsung has become Apple's second biggest threat.

2) Bought by Microsoft (along with Palm's patent portfolio) and shelved. If Microsoft/HP were able to continue to poison the tablet market for the next few months by pumping out more $100 TouchPads and thus killing sales of iPads and Android tablets then they will have managed to prevent Apple and Android from getting too far ahead of the Windows 8 tablets that are expected in mid-2012. (My sources tell me Microsoft will even be getting into the business of selling Microsoft-branded tablet hardware in 2012 and the devices are expected to be premium quality at subsidized prices. This time they're leaving NOTHING to chance. It's all about protecting their Windows turf from punks like iOS and Android, so a few drive by killings have been ordered.)

Because I like competition, I'm hoping Samsung buys webOS and puts the heat on Apple. But Microsoft seems to have rediscovered its killer instinct, so I think they have already locked up webOS.

As an aside, HP appears to be a ****edcompany. It's amazing to see how much damage an incompetent CEO (Leo Apotheker) can inflict on such a venerable company in such a short period of time. He actually claims he can transform HP into a purely software & services company like IBM did when it sold its PC business to the Chinese government - I mean Lenovo. HP's recent $10 billion dollar purchase of Autonomy shows just how clueless the company is. IBM, Oracle, etc. (and Autonomy) must be laughing their heads off at how HP got swindled. Was Apotheker a Trojan Horse CEO a-la-Elop? From whence?

Fake Jeff Hawkins

RE: The mobile world is about to turn UPSIDE DOWN.
Fake Jeff Hawkins @ 9/5/2011 10:25:43 AM # Q
These companies have shown us that they have no ability to match Apple on specs and price, yet still turn a profit. Now you're saying they're going to undercut Apple? Apple has premiere deals with flash memory and LCD suppliers because of the enormous volumes they command.

These companies are grasping at straws. None of them are able to crack Apple's stranglehold on the tablet market. Until Apple gives poor earnings guidance, it's all bullshit.

Nice to see you still haven't matured yet, Kiddo. Let us know when you finally develop some hair on your pubes. As usual you have your lips wrapped eagerly around Steve Jobs' teabag. You DO realize that Apple buys part of its iPad hardware from Samsung, right? And that Samsung has the ability to build almost EVERY component in a tablet itself, right? And that Samsung's new hardware is better than the iPad, right? Are you that much of an Apple pom-pom waving cheerleader that you can't see how tenuous Apple's position is right now? Wow.

Everyone is gunning for Apple and the fox just broke its foot. Release the hounds!

- FJH

Posted from my iPhone 4, but not a fangirl like abosco

RE: The mobile world is about to turn UPSIDE DOWN.
jca666us @ 9/5/2011 10:50:20 AM # M Q
FJH,

Please learn to read - and COMPREHEND what you read - apple most certainly does NOT purchase every component for the iPad from Samsung.

Currently flash memory is purchased from Samsung along with the A5 processor.

Everything else is purchased from a host of other suppliers.

With regards to LCD supplies, Apple purchases 50% - 60% of the available LCD supply for the iPads.

FYI, the reason why apple has been suing Samsung left and right is due to the fact that Samsung is infringing upon several of Apple's patents.

RE: The mobile world is about to turn UPSIDE DOWN.
Fake Jeff Hawkins @ 9/5/2011 11:05:50 AM # Q

Just for precision's sake, you mean 25% below Apple's projections, right? You're not going to cherry pick some crazy super optimistic analyst later and claim victory.

If you can find where Apple announced guidance for iPad sales for the next 3 months I'll take that number.

We'll see how you do on your RIM prediction. (1.) That they will discount by 50% by the end of the week. This seems quite possible to me.)

$250 PlayBook is a good deal. QNX is a sweet OS - too bad they let Adobe contaminate it, though. I would like to see that new Samsung 7.7 inch screened tablet that was just announced, though. The screen quality sounds impressive, but it's saddled with nasty Android. Who knows if Ice Cream Sandwich or Jello will have a UI that doesn't suck monkey balls...

A few other short term predictions that I can cherry pick from what you wrote (can you put dates on them?):

2.) HP will continue releasing TouchPads beyond the 100,000 or so made up from unassembled parts.

HP has more than that (a LOT more than that) sitting in its warehouses RIGHT NOW. They are manipulating the public for maximum effect. The TouchPad frenzy is right up there with Cabbage Patch Kids and Tickle Me Elmo... Brilliant Machievellian marketing.

3.) HP will launch a publicity campaign to sell these tablets.

A publicity campaign to sell a $99 tablet that in the past 2 weeks became the most wanted electronic device IN HISTORY? A publicity campaign to sell a $99 tablet that people are camping out for? You mad, bro? All HP needs to do is have Bryna "I'm actually a 51 year old male HP ad executive" Corcoran make a SINGLE post to Twitter and the feeding frenzy will begin anew. You'll have to get your fix of those bizarre Russell Brand and Manny Pacquiao commercials for You Tube...

4.) Amazon releases a cheap tablet in numbers that will "flood the market."

$199 before the end of 2011.

Fake Jeff Hawkins (Industry analyst, inventor, stud)

RE: The mobile world is about to turn UPSIDE DOWN.
nastebu @ 9/5/2011 11:38:16 AM # Q
That's a good point about Apple's iPad numbers. I think you're right that they don't break out estimates for specific products.

What reference point do you want to use? Got a favorite prediction for both market share and units sold?

RE: The mobile world is about to turn UPSIDE DOWN.
Fake Jeff Hawkins @ 9/5/2011 11:38:30 AM # Q
FJH,
Please learn to read - and COMPREHEND what you read - apple most certainly does NOT purchase every component for the iPad from Samsung.

Currently flash memory is purchased from Samsung along with the A5 processor.

Everything else is purchased from a host of other suppliers.

With regards to LCD supplies, Apple purchases 50% - 60% of the available LCD supply for the iPads.

FYI, the reason why apple has been suing Samsung left and right is due to the fact that Samsung is infringing upon several of Apple's patents.

I'm going to type this slowly because I realize that you don't read very quickly:

Samsung has the ability to MAKE essentially EVERY COMPONENT in a tablet and assemble them itself. At the same or higher quality as Apple's contractors. Apple, on the other hand has to BUY essentially EVERY COMPONENT in a tablet from a manufacturer that is selling the components to Apple for a healthy profit. Apple then has to pay another company to assemble its products, also at a healthy profit for the ODM. Samsung has no middlemen to deal with and has no complicated supply chain nightmare to coordinate. Who do you think has the advantage here? If you still think it's Apple then there is truly no hope for you. By the way, how quickly was Samsung able to release a better tablet once it saw how good the iPad 2 was? And how good are the next generation of Samsung tablets looking right now? Apple is scared and is trying to cripple Samsung in the courts because it knows that it ultimately can't compete with a determined Samsung in the hardware arms race.

If Samsung was smart they would stop copying the iPad look (as silly as Palm trying to sync directly with iTunes) and create a unique design with outrageous specs that Apple can't match. Release it at a price $100 less than iPad and watch Apple's iPad implode. If only Samsung had it's own OS and didn't have to depend on that steaming pile of s h i t e known as Android...

RE: The mobile world is about to turn UPSIDE DOWN.
SFO_TXUSR @ 9/5/2011 11:53:36 AM # M Q
Apple is already moving the iPad into the commercial market. There is more than one airline with plan to deploy iPads to pilots, flight attendants, and others to replace manuals, printouts and other information. All of the individuals who end up using the iPad at work also end up being potential customers for personal use. I work in the health care industry and I know my company is also taking a serious look at the iPad, and only the iPad. So Apple is already planning to stay way ahead of the competition.
RE: The mobile world is about to turn UPSIDE DOWN.
Fake Jeff Hawkins @ 9/5/2011 12:23:11 PM # Q
http://ipod.about.com/od/ipadmodelsandterms/f/ipad-sales-to-date.

6,000,000 per quarter if static, 8,000,000 per quarter if you believed the hype that iPad was the Future of Computing. I predict iPad sales decrease to 1,000,000 - 1,500,000 per month average starting from August 20, 2011. Best Buy, Staples, etc. could all give us some interesting data points for the past month of tablet sales. The graph of Android and iPad sales looks like someone falling off a cliff.

I hope now everyone sees how HP suddenly dumping 1,000,000 almost free tablets onto a fragile new market was INSANE. HP has GUTTED so many competitors' business plans literally overnight that it's not even funny.

FJH

RE: The mobile world is about to turn UPSIDE DOWN.
jca666us @ 9/5/2011 1:08:32 PM # Q
Hey Fake,

Samsung has no middlemen to deal with and has no complicated supply chain nightmare to coordinate. Who do you think has the advantage here?

If, as you say, Samsung has the ability to make *essentially* every component in a tablet and assemble it themselves, then why aren't they able to sell a tablet similar in spec. to the $499 iPad for $399 or even $299?

Apple still makes the lion's share of the profits in the entire industry (based on their sales).

Apple is scared and is trying to cripple Samsung in the courts because it knows that it ultimately can't compete with a determined Samsung in the hardware arms race.

Obviously Apple has a case, otherwise these injunctions from the courts would not be coming forward. Samsung needs to innovate, not copy.

If Samsung was smart they would stop copying the iPad look (as silly as Palm trying to sync directly with iTunes) and create a unique design with outrageous specs that Apple can't match.

Problem is, this isn't a specs. race - it's a usability and user experience race, and Samsung is woefully unequipped to handle such a fight.

If only Samsung had it's own OS and didn't have to depend on that steaming pile of s h i t e known as Android...

Even at $100 less, I wouldn't purchase an Android tablet - $399 junk is still junk.

RE: The mobile world is about to turn UPSIDE DOWN.
AdamaDBrown @ 9/5/2011 1:43:46 PM # Q
A few comments from skimming this thread:

I very much doubt that Microsoft's new entries into the smartphone and tablet market are going to thrive. Microsoft had their shot years ago, if they had continued innovating with Windows Mobile after 5.0 and 6.1. Now, they're that past-his-prime athlete who keeps talking about how he's going to make a comeback. And every time they hype up a plan and then lose interest, it makes them less likely to attract attention the next time.

I also don't think RIM has the ability to make QNX a serious platform, either. It may make it's way into a certain enterprise niche, but RIM doesn't have the cache to crack open the public market against the Two Titans. And that's where their problem is. The business market used to be enough to make RIM a serious player, but today the smartphone market has expanded massively, and most of that expansion is into individuals, not businesses.

I don't believe anyone is going to purchase WebOS. It's fate is likely to be shelved, either by HP or by the spin-off of HP's hardware side. It's hard enough for any new platform to break in against a market which is already dominated by two major players; a platform which has already failed to get traction once is pretty much toast.

I think Apple is going to lose, long term, over suing Samsung. Trying to sue away competitors has never been a particularly viable strategy, and it's usually been reserved for companies which are trying to preclude competition rather than out-competing. And it's perceptive--Samsung is one of the best hardware manufacturers available today, and they've got great advantages if they can bring them to bear. Including what is arguably the best screen technology you can find, Super AMOLED Plus.

Apple is going to hold on to the tablet market for the near future, on the strength of their brand. Android is going to continue nibbling away at it, but there won't be a serious crack until somebody changes the game. The problem right now is the lack of a high profile Android tablet that really has the strength to go toe to toe with the iPad. The Xoom is nice, but too expensive, the GTablet too low profile, and the models tied to cell carriers are too hobbled.

What the Android tablet market needs is the equivalent of a Dell Axim. Back in 2002, Pocket PCs usually cost around $500 to $600. In comes Dell, saying that they're going to offer better specs, better screen, and more options for $200 to $300. It completely realigned the handheld market, and opened up a new wave of competition that lasted years.

If Samsung comes out and says, we're going to market a $299 tablet with a 10 inch SAMOLED+ screen, gobs of memory, HDMI, GPS, and an optional $10 a month data plan with no contract, they would have a serious threat to Apple's dominance.

Samsung's problem, though, is processors. Their reliance on their own processors is hurting their products. Frankly I love my Samsung Infuse, but it's 1.2 GHz processor is not the equal of a dual-core Tegra 2. Samsung needs to either roll out a new, better processor, or suck it up and start buying Tegras.

RE: The mobile world is about to turn UPSIDE DOWN.
Fake Jeff Hawkins @ 9/5/2011 2:23:53 PM # M Q
http://ipod.about.com/od/ipadmodelsandterms/f/ipad-sales-to-date.htm

According to the trolls Apple has sold either 60 million or 80 million iPads. In what alternate universe did this occur?

Are you REALLY asking why Samsung didn't start competing with Apple on price? Same reason why RIM, Motorola, HP, etc. didn't. The tablet market is young and manufacturers are just figuring out what consumers are willing to pay. You price your goods at the highest price you can get away with to maximize profit. So far everyone except Apple and possibly ASUS has failed massively in the pricing game. Samsung won't make that mistake from now on, but Apple is using legal attacks to foil the competition. Once Samsung is back selling in all markets expect a DEVASTATING, relentless attack on Apple. Apple WILL lose the tablet market lead. It's just a matter of WHEN this will occur.

Fake Jeff Hawkins.

RE: The mobile world is about to turn UPSIDE DOWN.
Fake Jeff Hawkins @ 9/5/2011 2:37:25 PM # M Q
"skimming this thread" Ms. Brown? Please. Your forced attempt to project detachment is laughable.

I'm not sure what Pocket PC did to you to trigger the unbridled rage you harbor towards it, but it must have involved your delicate parts and no lube.

I'll put my predictions against yours any day. Attacking me doesn't change the fact that you are (as usual) WRONG.

Samsung is releasing some unbelievable hardware soon. Their only problem is that Android remains a poorly optimized OS. But with the latest Samsung devices I've heard they have finally managed to brute force performance out of the Android pig. Samsung + 2012 = devastation of the tablet market.

Fake Jeff Hawkins

RE: The mobile world is about to turn UPSIDE DOWN.
jca666us @ 9/5/2011 3:17:12 PM # M Q
Samsung isn't competing on price and neither is amazon - because you don't know what you're talking about.
RE: The mobile world is about to turn UPSIDE DOWN.
abosco @ 9/8/2011 9:39:44 PM # Q
Let us know when you finally develop some hair on your pubes.

Reread that. Did it come out as intended? No? Well good thing you revised it before you submitted the comment, otherwise you'd have looked like an idiot.

Aren't you the same guy who would trademark his own phrases, repeat them, and link to them in his signature?

"Samsung should release a tablet with better specs for less money than the iPad!!!"

Stop the ****ing presses, nobody has ever thought of this before! All this time, Samsung has been trying to charge customers more for fewer specs, but then you came along with Econ 101 graphs showing where the red supply line meets the blue demand curve, and now it all comes into focus.

Let me know when Samsung mails your check for that phenomenally creative and original idea. You should have no problem finding it - it'll be the one that comes in a Publishers Clearing House type oversized envelope, followed by a camera crew, and handed to you by Ben Bernanke.
-Bosco
m105 -> NX70v -> NX80v -> iPhone -> iPhone 3G -> iPhone 4

RE: The mobile world is about to turn UPSIDE DOWN.
jptx @ 9/9/2011 7:38:03 PM # Q

Here's one going for a good price:


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290607494037&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123

Actually a collectible foleo...

RE: The mobile world is about to turn UPSIDE DOWN.
nastebu @ 9/14/2011 11:23:02 AM # Q
For what it is worth, MacRumors posted a thread on this: http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS23034011

Which seems to indicate that the HP dump impacted Android sales, but not iPad sales, which rose from 65% to 68% market share.

RE: The mobile world is about to turn UPSIDE DOWN.
mijail @ 9/16/2011 6:25:27 AM # Q
Hey, it's increasingly looking like HP's idea of turning the mobile world UPSIDE DOWN is so good that RIM might just do the same!

;)

Poor Palm.
Well, I guess evolution works.

RE: The mobile world is about to turn UPSIDE DOWN.
gmayhak @ 9/18/2011 7:48:39 PM # Q
All they did is show the incompetence of the company.

Trying to copy Apple by buying technology and wrapping it in cheap plastic, then going "oops, that didn't work" a few weeks later must have H & P spinning in their graves! Remember when they had the drive and talent to lead the industry and put a $2000 price tag ( $395 in 1972 ≈ $2000 in 2008) on a shirt pocket calculator?

The HP-35 was 5.8 inches (150 mm) long and 3.2 inches (81 mm) wide, said to have been designed to fit into one of William Hewlett's shirt pockets.
Is the first scientific calculator to fly in space (along with the HP-65 and HP-41) in 1972[5]
Is the first pocket calculator with a numeric range that covered 200 decades (10+/-100)[6]
The LED display power requirement was responsible for the HP-35's short battery life between charges about three hours. To extend operating time and avoid wearing out the on/off slide switch, users would press the decimal point key to force the display to illuminate just a single LED junction.
The HP-35 calculated arithmetic, logarithmic, and trigonomic functions but the complete implementation used only 767 carefully chosen instructions (7670 bits).
Introduction of the HP-35 and similar scientific calculators by Texas Instruments soon thereafter signaled the demise of the slide rule as a status symbol among science and engineering students. Slide rule holsters rapidly gave way to "electronic slide rule" holsters, and colleges began to drop slide-rule classes from their curricula.
100,000 HP-35 calculators were sold in the first year, and over 300,000 by the time it was discontinued in 19753 years after its introduction.[7]
In 2007, HP introduced a revised HP 35s calculator in memory of the original.
[edit]Notes

^ HP-35 Scientific Calculator Awarded IEEE Milestone
^ $395 in 1972 ≈ $2000 in 2008 (see Inflation Conversion Factors for Dollars)
^ Retro HP 35s Launched to Commemorate 35th Anniversary of First HP Handheld Calculator
^ "Milestones:Development of the HP-35, the First Handheld Scientific Calculator, 1972". IEEE Global History Network. IEEE. Retrieved 4 August 2011.
^ http://h20331.www2.hp.com/Hpsub/cache/392617-0-0-225-121.html
^ http://h20331.www2.hp.com/Hpsub/cache/392617-0-0-225-121.html
^ HP Virtual Museum: Hewlett-Packard-35 handheld scientific calculator, 1972

Gary
http://www.BattSix.com

Tech Center Labs
www.talestuff.com
www.iTalentProductions.com

RE: The mobile world is about to turn UPSIDE DOWN.
rpa @ 9/19/2011 11:11:44 AM # Q
Gary: the old HP could have turned webOS into a viable platform. The company is now run by bean counters and MBA whizzes aka the smartest guys in the room.
RE: The mobile world is about to turn UPSIDE DOWN.
mijail @ 12/3/2011 5:45:44 AM # Q
Yeah, seems closer and closer: RIM is about to follow HP's steps for turning the mobile world UPSIDE DOWN.

http://www.splatf.com/2011/12/playbook-inventory/

(there was finally any dent on Apple's dominance after the TouchPad firesale? I don't think I saw any...)

Reply to this comment

It's not about cheaper and more specs...

jnuneznj @ 9/16/2011 7:59:10 AM # Q
It's never been about specs in the tablet market. Apple came in a destroyed the PC's tablet market on...
- size: Previous PC Tablets were just slim laptops
- usability: If you have ever used a Windows Tablet, you know that the screen keyboard was buggy as best.
- content: right now major developers are developing for iOS plus they will dabble in a couple of Android devices. For example Netflix, they are only releasing on a select amount of Android devices.

The new tablets are now just playing catch up and their gimmick is higher specs which doesn't really matter to the majority of end-users. Most of the people worried about specs are the minority. If that statement isn't true then why is DELL selling so many $300 PCs with on-board video and sub-par audio?

BTW, Dell is working on a new tablet which will use an Intel Dual Core! Wow that will fail faster than their iPod Killer did. Hope the battery last past the boot process

RE: It's not about cheaper and more specs...
dagwud @ 9/17/2011 10:22:56 AM # Q
I have to agree with your assessment of previous Windows tablets. They were just laptops without keyboards. The future looks a little bit better for iPad-ish Windows tablets, but they aren't here yet.

However, your information regarding Netflix might be a bit outdated. To quote their Android Market entry, "Get Netflix on all Android 2.2 and 2.3 devices." Things are a little less clear if you're looking at Android 3 devices. However, it works fine on my Viewsonic Gtablet running a customized Honeycomb ROM.

Their "select amount" is really rather large.

RE: It's not about cheaper and more specs...
BaalthazaaR @ 9/19/2011 10:39:59 AM # Q
Netflix is still not available on all android 2.x devices. It won't show up in the catalog for under-spec'ed devices
RE: It's not about cheaper and more specs...
dagwud @ 9/24/2011 12:12:09 PM # Q
I'd wonder how many of those "under-spec'ed devices" are running Eclair. It didn't show up for my Aria when I was running 2.1. But now that CM7 is running 2.3.4, the Netflix app is in the market. Is it not showing up for "under-spec'ed device" running Froyo or Gingerbread?

Not supporting older OS devices isn't the same as not developing for the Android platform. There were plenty of iOS apps that gave up backward compatibility with their updates for iOS4. It's not unique to Android. So I'm not sure how meaningful of a criticism is is to say that Netflix are "only releasing on a select amount of Android devices," even if we define "select amount" as "2.2 or later."


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