Comments on: Sony PEG-N710C Review

Carl
http://www.palmloyal.com

check

http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php?masterid=437805&search=clie&ut=8898c4c927c4fc11

Jay

64 meg MemoryStick = $70 = $1.09/meg
64 meg MMC = $74 = $1.16/meg

I don't mind paying an extra 7 cents a meg for a MMC since it isn't proprietary like the MemoryStick.

As for price, I would compare the SD card with the MagicGate version.

64 meg MagicGate = $128 = $2.00/meg
64 meg SD Card = $89 = $1.39/meg

You wouldn't want to compare apples to oranges. ;-)

Well, SD cards run at that speed but do you know how fast the m50x reads/writes them??? You'll be surprised!

Here are snips from an article where the MemoryStick is heading:

"Device manufacturers are also supporting this flash-memory format. In Japan, Sharp is shipping an MP3 player that uses Memory Sticks, and car-audio maker Alpine is shipping in-dash players with a Memory Stick slot. Epson has printers on the market in the Untied States that support the Memory Stick, allowing consumers to save documents onto a Stick and print them by simply placing the Stick in a slot on a printer."

"In 2002, a 256MB version of the Memory Stick will be available, followed by 1GB and 2GB versions by 2003. (Sticks are currently available in 8MB, 16MB, 32MB and 64MB versions.) Sony will also push data transfer rates from the current 2.5MB per second to 20MB per
second by 2003. "

Source: http://canada.cnet.com/news/0-1006-200-6135310.html?tag=lh

The main difference between the MS and the MG is that the MG can hold ATRAC3 files -- and you are comparing an MG to an SD????!! Duh! As you wound say -- don't compare apples to oranges!

An alpine with a memory stick slot? That rocks!! Go Alpine! Go Sony! Woohoo!

qRx is the world's leading clinical handheld application providing over 250,000 health care professionals with point-of-care information every day. qRx gives you everything from indication-specific dosing to drug interactions to packaging and pricing info.

qID is a custom-built infectious disease application designed specifically for Palm OS handheld devices. Fast and comprehensive, qID helps you find antimicrobial recommendations in a concise and clinically relevant format -- at the point of care.

We need easy wireless connectivity for wireless prescribing, normal web browsing for sites that are not optimized for web-clipping, and lots of easily accessed storage for clinical libraries that can be read with high resolution screens.

The Handera 330 seems to about the only Palm OS device that might be capable of doing all of this fairly easily, but people who follow all of the new medical apps in development are telling me that everything is being demoed on Pocket PCs.

Appreciate all of your comments.

Thanks, Rob

The killer app that drives everyone to Palm is Epocrates' qRX and qID. Also, the general feeling is that Palms are the easiest handhelds to use. The majority of Dr.'s aren't very techie and wan't something that is very easy to use and maintain.

Fast Mpx=on
Fast Page=opn
Slow Mpx=off
Fast Hotsync=off
Adjust ticks=on
Default=54Mhz
Find=54Mhz
Lcd/n=1
Gray=off
Accel=Always
Slow=Never
LClk/2=Never

Hints?

BTW, I have owned 710C since it's very early debut in US, I can't say there is speed problem between switching the apps. The photo is indeed slow, but the end results are excellent.

That may be due to Palm OS 4.0 on the 610c; supposedly 4.0 contains faster database access routines and possibly some other speed increases over OS 3.5.

The software Palm is growing as well with vendors making software that reads from MS and SD cards and the small form factor is a big plus (no sleds to add for more memory) and the ease of use. The number of different devices that work alike is helping people chose the device thats right for them as well.

You may want to take a look at the keynote address Carl Yankowski made at TechXNY this year at the Jacob Javitz Center in NYC. In it, Carl explained (with the aid of other people in the Palm industry and several movies) how useful Palms are in the medical community and how they are already being implemented to hospitals as if they were normal business enterprises.

You can find the speech (in two parts) at:
http://www.zdnet.com/special/stories/report/0,13518,2780771,00.html#

Eric Garrido

Rob

http://www.makeashorterlink.com

-- it works!

Yes, if its sidelight is also turned off. But this isn't a realistic measurement. Neither one is very useful without having its screen lit up. And Sony isn't claiming that the 710 can run for 15 straight days without being turned off. They mean with something called "regular use" it can go 15 days without needing to be charged. Nowhere is "regular use" defined. Half an hour of use a day? One hour? Who knows?

The m505 with its backlight OFF will last approximately 1 hour longer than the clie with its backlight on LOW. But enabling the backlight on the m505 nearly cuts its battery life in half.

See my site at http://gizmo.digital-alchemy.net for complete battery test results in the m505, Clie, Jornada, etc.

The m505 has alot going for it, but its not longer lived than the clie.

Oh my God, another false statement. I have been using my Clie for more than two months, I set the brightness to around 1/4 (in between the minimun and medium) and it always stays there.

you probably don't know how to interpretate the results, the m505 without backlight is only one hour longer than Clie WITH BACKLIGHT ON at minimun. It is amazing since backlight eats much more power even it is set to the lowest. A fair comparison will be both set to no backlight and Clie should last longer than m505.

The Clie backlight set to a little higher than lowest is as bright as m505 with backlight on, and Clie clearly last longer than m505.

The m505 charge fast, hmmmmm... we finally found another advantage for m505 in addition to the only form factor advantage.

Clearly, the battery used in m505 is smaller than Clie (interpretated from the results), and what is amazing is that Clie is only 20 g heavier than m505, and if m505 use the same capacity battery, m505 may lose all the trivial form factor advantage and still with 160*160 dim, dull screen.

From many perspective, Palm did not do a good job on m505, and it is very easy to see without much intelligence.

I usually leave my Clie on maximum brightness and I've never had a problem with battery life. When I had an iPaq I'd leave it on the second lowest brightness setting and the battery would last less than 1/3 as long as it seems to on the Clie with max brightness, which is pretty amazing in my opinion.

The m505 is a nice device, but I wish m505 owners could give credit where credit is due. The Clie's display absolutely blows away the m505's, people just look silly trying to say otherwise. The m505 has some great features of its own, but it's ok to sometimes admit its shortcomings.

The Clie with backlight at minimum lasts nearly as long (about an hour less) than the m505 WITHOUT the backlight on at all. Turning the backlight off should yield significantly more run time on the clie, if you so choose.

One of my favorite features of the m505 is its RECHARGE TIME! it recharges faster than any other handheld ive ever used, and makes it reasonable to pop it on the charger for 10-15 minutes while i sync it and never have to worry about batteries. The clie isnt bad recharge wise, but the m505 defintely has it beat.

One inconvience about the clies charging is that if its on the cradle under charge, the battery always reports 100%. This makes it hard to see exactly where it is in the charging process, since you have to take it out of the cradle to get an accurate reading. A minor issue, but can be annoying.

Another wierdness about the Clie recharge, is that the battery reports full at 4.0 volts while it will actually charge to 4.24. That extra .24 actually accounts for the first 2-3 hours or so of battery life so its worth leaving it on the charger for this.

Btw, in case you folks havent noticed, battery life is my thing in a handheld. I go way back to the HP 200lx where I was spoiled with its wonderful battery life. The palms approach it, but the PPC's just don't cut it IMO.

For example, I bought a Sony Digital Video Camera (PC5) and in the manual it showed two charts for battery life. One for when the device was on continuously, vs. one for when it was used under typical conditions (on, off, zoom, etc.). The difference was huge.

I use my Palm all day but typically only for short reference, or adding a calendar date. Almost always it's on for 3 minutes or under. If I get 12 hours on one charge that would equate to over a month of usage which is clearly not the case for my 505.

Again, I think it's ok to compare devices from these benchmarks, but I wouldn't expect anyone to actually get 12 or 15 hours of REAL usage from their Palm (or Sony).

You are correct that 'continuous on' vs normal usage will yield different results. But i would like to make a couple clairifications.

1. The battery tests I performed were NOT simple rundown tests where the device just sits there. They were tests performed under a continuous application load (scrolling a 400k ebook) providing more of a real world result than just sitting there at the apps screen.

2. The On/Off behaviour you describe, using a device for a few minutes at a time will likely yield BETTER performance than if used continuiously. The reason for this is that todays battery technologies tend to bounce back a bit when left without a significant draw... for example... using your palm for a few minutes and the battery drops to 17%... you turn it off and come back an hour later to find it at 19%. Its wierd but I see it alot in todays handhelds (except PPC's which just kinda such every ounce of power they can find)

Oops, m505 doesn't have 320*320 high resolution photos to show...

S***, m505 doesn't have MP3 either, what a f*** %^%*%*%*#%**#%^#

JK

-= SAM =-

I think those "little pads" have more in common with the super thin web tablets everyone will have pursuint to the markets embrace of super-thin screen technology like O-LED(Organic Display), and EDIO (Electronic Paper), and the markets embrace of webpad's in general.

Hate to admit this but, the technology we have today is awesome, but the common citizen won't even be able to take advantage of it for 2-3 years when the markets finally catch up. It will be the same situation 2-3 years from now. Unfortunately too many people expect the economy to go into a recession, and expectation creates reality (or didn't you take macro-econ?)

The length of technology coming to market may infact reverse and become longer, it seems unlikely, but you never know, this could be the peak of all civilization now. What happens when we don't have enough resources (electricity, petrolium, etc...) to power the world, what happens when we consume faster than we can renew renewable energy resources, when their is no where else to expand? Will we evolve in time, for that matter will we evolve at all? Maybe the government will patrol the streets looking for reasons to kill people like they are rumored to do in China. Will war heat up, will we instintivity seek to create mass population control like they do now in China (only two kids per couple in china, ouch!) Will we grow old while our children grow old, hoping only that the race to build giant human helper robots will succeed before there is no one left to take care of our aging population (like what is going on in Japan). I'm sorry what was I talking about again? Palm pilots?

But let me correct you, it is only one kid per couple, in China, 2 or more kids you'll have to pay more tax!!

BTW doesn't that decrease the potential Palm user base?

robbb

Everything the Clie group has, plus a larger files section!

Clie group? Who-hoh! 2,200 members in 3 months! How many versions of Clie's are there, 2 NC PEG 700-710, PEG 300/Peg 320, PEG 620. There's like 6 of them! That's about 4 members a day coming in with a Clie. The m505's groups membership has gone up over a thosand over a few days last week. Which is way more for one handheld!

Without nxt, there wouldn't be a Clie Group!

m505: May=151, June=439, July=1005, Current=1505
Clie: May=222, June=1870,July=1533, Current=2326

Anyways, whatever..

Looks like 20 - 30 people are joining every day. At that rate they'll be able to take over the world by the end of the year!

I wonder how long it will take before they start cutting prices. I'm betting that once the $400 N610C is available in numbers (seems to be backordered everywhere now), Palm will slice $50 - 100 off the m505's list price.

WHATEVER THE MARKET WILL BEAR! Isn't economics fun?

well said :)

Palm and Sony are not cut throat enemies, if anything Sony is Palm's favoured hardware manufacturer at the moment.

The Clie nx10c's arent about in europe yet, (although the n710c has just been reviewed in PCW uk so they will be soon) so i can't compare it to the m505 as I don't have them in hand, but at last we have some decent variety in the PalmOS scene, with great stuff from Palm, Handera, Sony and Handspring. Why do we have to say which is best?

-
kHiTeDev

You make some good points but whether you realize it or not, you didn't take an unbiased look at both handhelds. You lightly brushed over the 710's flaws while playing up the 505's.

The 710 doesn't come bundled with the applications businesspeople need. You dismissed that as unimportant but one of the major ways salespeople talk companies into standardizing on WinCE is by telling that they can use Word and Excel files right out of the box. You are correct, it should come with these apps and then the 710 would be a much better for business people than it is now. But that hasn't happened yet.

You've bought into the anti-505 propaganda. I have a 505 and there has never been a situation where I couldn't see what was on the screen, as you assert. Yes, the 710's screen is much better but a BMW is much better than a Lexus but that doesn't mean the Lexus is bad.

But this Palm against Sony competition is really useless. You think what you think and I think what I think and we're not likely to change each other's minds. I believe the only hope for determining a real "winner", if there is any such thing, is to see which model is selling better.

Chris

WRONG. Take away the MP3 player and the N710C is just another Palm with a higher-res screen and a MemoryStick slot. Its' screen is smaller than many other handhelds. Its' buttons are poorly laid out, and it's on the thicker side of handhelds. It doesn't come with any useful productivity software. Expansion options are limited for it, and who knows when or if there will be anything else for things like I/O and connectivity that will work with it. There's even talk that the 4.0 upgrade won't be user installable. If I were looking for a PDA to buy for my employees, these would be significant downsides. Add that it's the most expensive Palm available, and it comes up considerably lacking.

Don't delude yourself into thinking that fancy, but small, hi-res screen and a high price tag makes it something for everybody. It's not. It's a flashy multimedia handheld for people who want to look cool.

Do you have any figures to back that up? I've been trying to figure out which one is selling better for weeks and no one seems to know.

Ridiculous. Whoever said this is totally a MORON. The important thing is the pixel size, if you increse the size and the resoultion at the same time, the size of the pixel also incresed, and you will still see the jigsaw fonts. Look at iPAQ, the size of the screen is much larger than Clie N710C, but the resoultion is lower and if you look at iPAQ same sizew font, you will see the font is not as beautiful as Clie's.

BTW, the screen size of Clie is only very little smallr than m505's, I have measured Clie, m505 and Prism. Clie screen does look smaller, I guess it is because the case is smaller (m505 is very wide, even though it is thinner)

I feel sorry for Palm. Even the Palm fanatics have run out of reasons to recommend the Palm flagship. Right now, the m505's only advantage is : it's thin - if you don't use a case. $450 for thin? I don't think so.

I'm gonna have to get one !

One complaint though, does anybody know how to turn the volume down, it is a little too loud for me.

If you want a really loud alarm, get a HandEra 330. It's amplified speaker puts out some real volume.

> One complaint though, does anybody know how to turn the
> volume down, it is a little too loud for me.

Go into Prefs > General > Alarm Sound

---
News Editor
Palm Infocenter

My tip - Go Grey!

Get one off ebay. I got mine for less than $500 US inc GST. Thats a shade under A$1000, but hey its tax deductable.

As for Sony warrranty - its pretty good, global, and touch wood I haven't had to use it yet through 3 years of gadgets from them.

Documents to Go (http://www.dataviz.com/) syncs fully with Microsoft Office, including Word, Excel, and PowerPoint. It does a heck of a lot better job that the pile of puke programs that come with PocketPC.

If you don´t need powerpoint, you can use wordsmith (the best worprocesor for PDA´s) and tinysheet or minicalc

when you right-click on the hotsync icon in the windows system tray, is "local" checked?

if it is, and your palm vx won't hotsync, try using palm desktop 4.0.1. in addition to a better interface, it has a better hotsync manager.

make a backup of your c:Program FilesSony Handheld folder and then uninstall palm desktop for clie thru control panel. download palm desktop 4.01 for palm 3/5/7 from www.palm.com and install that. copy USBSwt.exe (from the backup of your sony handheld folder) into your C:Palm folder, and put a shortcut to it into your windows startup folder. reboot windows. you should see both the new hotsync manager and usbswitcher in the system tray.

right click on hotsync manager and make sure local serial is checked. if you have a usb cradle for your palm vx, make sure local usb is checked too.

although i don't have a palm vx, i do have a palm IIIxe (serial) and a visor deluxe (usb) in addition to my 710 (pseudo-usb/serial), all hotsyncing thru this same setup. i hope you find that it works for you.

Btw, I have a Clie 710c now and Palm Desktop 4.0.1 works fine. Maybe you should try figuring things out before returning them so quick. Have fun with that dim, pixelated, plain-looking m505 screen.

the reason ive been wanting one is for when i work out at the gym. granted ill have to be careful with it, that just means ill need a case with better protection. :)

but i am totally happy with this purchase. the high res is just staggering.

Have not tried it though.....

Thankx

Here's more on the Bluetooth MemStick:
www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=1781

---
News Editor
Palm Infocenter

Given, they state it's going to cost 10000 yen, which is roughly equivalent to $84, but I'm sure that won't be the case in the states.

Sony, if you can get us an OS upgrade for $30 or less, I love you! :)

Evan

if you arent synching with your serial port then dont have serial checked off.

http://www.ita.sel.sony.com/support/clie/softupdates/N710C/index.html

Junk 'em, and get a good palm pilot. You'll be a damn
site happier.

I hope this works for you. I had the same problem (I think) but I couldn't even install the freakin audio plyaer because some how I got the wrong installation CD. I took me hours with sony tech support but it turned out fine.

Good luck :)

this should work

George