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Comments on: Rumor: Palm Planning m525 for Next Year

It will probably not come as a surprise to anyone that Palm is already working on a successor for the m505. According to a source, the m525 will have an improved color screen and 16 MB of RAM. It will also have a battery capable of keeping the enhanced screen's sidelight on for eight hours. It will be announced in March of next year at Cebit 2002 in Hannover Germany.
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Another rumor...

wilco @ 8/31/2001 11:18:40 AM #
It just keep coming... March next year is too far. They should release it closer to the Christmas selling season. The Specs if true, is really what the m505 should have been.

RE: Another rumor...
EdwardGreen @ 8/31/2001 2:12:38 PM #
Hmmm. I will be really worried if Palm doesn't have PalmOS 5 sorted by CeBiTT ... unless this is a 320x320 Arm based piece of kit.

-
kHiTeDev
RE: Another rumor...
JanSolo @ 9/14/2001 4:51:02 AM #
I used to work at Palm. I know how it works on the inside.

Palm's product council is VERY slow on making decisions and are very pathetic when it comes to making anything good. A lot of them are old useless ex-Apple people who were poor performers there and are equally useless now. Why else would Palm's competitors be kicking their asses when it comes to design and innovation so easily?

''I used to work at Palm. I know how it works on the inside.''
I.M. Anonymous @ 12/8/2001 1:54:24 AM #
The speed to market may be do to the fact that they are a hardware and software vendor. No company in their right mind is going to invest in R@D and use Palm OS if Palm just keeps coming out with better products. So Palm has to hold back to sell their OS.

Palm has the minds, if they keep holding back to satisfy their partnerships they may start losing more people. They need to decide what their core business really is, find some hardware innovators and bring them on board.

Suggestion:

Split hardware and OS into two groups under different companies. There are some really innovative hardware people. There just not in your face and really quite.

John Lennon once said, "give peace a chance", will a little peace to some never heard about person with vision might be the way to go.

Have you been living in a cave?
I.M. Anonymous @ 12/8/2001 3:35:45 AM #
> The speed to market may be do to the fact that they
> are a hardware and software vendor. No company in
> their right mind is going to invest in R@D and use
> Palm OS if Palm just keeps coming out with better
> products. So Palm has to hold back to sell their OS.

Nonsense. Palm is not holding back. They simply are unable to compete now that several other vendors are offering better models.


> Suggestion:

> Split hardware and OS into two groups under
> different companies.

Like what they're doing? Everyone knows Palm can't make profits from OS sales alone. Over 90% of their income is derived from hardware sales. (If they sell 2 million copies of PalmOS per year to Handspring, Sony, Symbol, etc. for $9/copy, this generates only $20 million/year. Hardly a drop in the bucket for a company previously "worth" ove 50 BILLION dollars.)

"Sources say ..."

Moosecat @ 8/31/2001 11:31:11 AM #
Without outing the source, can we have any more information about the veracity of this rumor? How inside is this person?

On an unrelated note, what's with Palm's ridiculously long product pipeline? Almost a YEAR after release of the m505, they will release an updated version with an "improved screen" and more memory? Sheesh... I guess they want to milk the m505 as long as they can, and are betting that Sony doesn't have the clout with average joe PDA purchaser to demolish the m505 in the next few months. (Which I think is fair to assume on Palm's part.)

RE:
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 11:39:43 AM #
It's all in the marketing. Look at cars, same idea, we could get the "car of the future" today, but that would not give us the fun of anticipating the new designs and spending more money.
I have the M505, upgraded from the Palm Professional, and will be very content to wait another 2-3 more years until there is a substantial difference.
With tech products, you will go nuts if you need to have the very latest all the time.
I better get used to latest Palm becoming obsolete again :)

RE:
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 11:46:21 AM #
Better move to the Clie. What's the use of the 16MB RAM anyway?

16 MB is important to many
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 11:54:14 AM #
Many people, especially Medical users and 4 MB AvantGo users would love to have 16 MB.

RE:
kevdo @ 8/31/2001 11:56:00 AM #
>What's the use of the 16MB RAM anyway?

You're kidding, right?

RE:
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 12:01:14 PM #
Maybe he is, but I'm not. With expansion, who cares how much internal RAM you have? It's not that big of a difference.

RE:
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 12:01:54 PM #
"Better move to the Clie. What's the use of the 16MB RAM anyway?"

Get off your "Sony Rules" kick, will you? And what are you smoking on the 16mb question? You're a f***ing idiot!



RE:
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 12:58:13 PM #
Yeah!!! Let's kick his ass!

Got me 16MB of RAM
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 1:35:25 PM #
I think the more RAM, the better. The expansion memory on the Palm isn't seamless and there are still programs that won't work or don't work well with the SD card. How could 16MB RAM not be an improvement?

E Cartman Press Release for Palm Inc
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 1:38:55 PM #
yeah yeah kick his ass. to quote the venerable eric cartman 'i hate you guys, i hate you guys, i hate you guys so very much'. i am going to crawl back into my cube, call our legal department, ask them to memo this Ed guy and try and take his site down. next i am going to call security and find out who the mole is that keeps leaking info to this Ed guy. i can't even take a piss without you palm infocenter guys knowing what is going on. i am suprised that you have found out the rate of alcoholism in our PR department. its pretty high, thats why we can't do a damn thing write.

-Brian
Sr Consultant
Troll Management and Relations
Palm Inc
btroll@palm.com

ps on a serious note, once again great job to Ed for bringing us the breaking news.

RE:
mikecane @ 8/31/2001 1:42:36 PM #
16MB of RAM as the Holy Grail. Meanwhile, I just read a review yesterday at The Gadgeteer of an iPaq being stuffed with *128MB* of RAM. Just goes to show how different platforms have different perceptions of RAM. (Although I wouldn't mind a 128MB CLIE...)

RE:
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 2:51:24 PM #
To the kid who said:
"Get off your "Sony Rules" kick, will you? And what are you smoking on the 16mb question? You're a f***ing idiot!"

Are you sure you need a palm and not a laptop? You make me laugh.

What are you using your internal memory for? Avantgo? Games? Dictionary? Books? I say, improve VFS support.

RE:
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 3:03:59 PM #
umm guys, for those of you who haven't tried a hi-res clie for at least a month yet, please do, before you get angry to pro-clie users. i used an m505 for a month before i switched to a clie 610 and never did regret my decision. my .02

as for internal memory, let's be reminded that the palm uses it to store programs. not until the external memory, you would crave for higher internal memory capacity. are we missing the point? if vfs is improved, i will be happy with zero internal ram and a 128mb expansion card.

RE:
mikecane @ 8/31/2001 3:40:29 PM #
One of the Anon fellows said: I say, improve VFS support.

AMEN!

RE:
Altema @ 8/31/2001 4:16:56 PM #
VFS support needs work, but 16 MB of native RAM would be nice, as the apps run quicker without going to the card. I keep my most frequently used apps in RAM or flash, and everything else on the card. Having a 72Mb machine is great, but remember that the native RAM is used for application working space. I wish they had come out with this sooner, I might have held on to the IIIc a little longer. BTW: I DO need a laptop that fits in my pocket, the rest of the guys here at work can get their arms stretched out by lugging their 40 pound laptop bags... :-)

Get a clue!
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 4:23:42 PM #
"as for internal memory, let's be reminded that the palm uses it to store programs. not until the external memory, you would crave for higher internal memory capacity. are we missing the point? if vfs is improved, i will be happy with zero internal ram and a 128mb expansion card."

ROTFLMAO!

I hope you're happy with your 128MB brick, because that's all it'll be without RAM!


RE:
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 4:42:51 PM #
Hey "ROTFLMAO!",
I have an experiment for you. Fill up your Internal RAM with apps. When it's full, try to run an app, say the calculator app. Do you think it will run even if you have used up your Internal RAM? ;)



RE: RAM vs. VFS
GrouchoMarx @ 8/31/2001 5:36:24 PM #
Yes it will, actually. The PalmOS uses execute in place program execution, so apps run exactly where they already are in RAM. There is a separate few hundred kb reserved for currently running programs for the stack and the heap. That's why the PalmOS is so fast compared to WinCE's split memory archetecture which mimics a desktop filesystem with a separate "storage" and "active" area. There is an overhead required when programs are "loaded". Such a load time does not exist on the Palm. Unless, of course, the program is on an expansion card, in which case you do have to load it from the card to RAM. That's why internal RAM is superior: It's natural, and there is no copy-and-load time.

--GrouchoMarx

RE:
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 5:51:16 PM #
Actually, no. Programs like CardPro on the HandEra won't work without at least 100kb free. They just fail with an error box telling you to delete some programs. Other programs like Noah Pro and Wordsmith use the free ram to set up temporary cache files and won't run without enough open space.

You obviously haven't been in development...
reidjazz @ 8/31/2001 5:53:34 PM #
...of any hardware/software product. Unless you're a huge company with large resources,
product schedules are often many months to a year.

reidjazz

m525

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 11:32:46 AM #
I am now moving from Palm to Clie but if this right i will wait.

RE: m525
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 11:40:08 AM #
This is why I bought the m500 instead of the color version. I guessed that Palm would announce an improved color screen sometime within the 12 months following the introduction of the 505. And 16 megs RAM? Wow! I'll hold on to my new Palm (I do love the little grey-scaled bastard, though) until the m525 (please, rumor, be true) is available. --Oxhead.

RE: m525
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 7:37:12 PM #
I did the same. Bought an m500 waiting for better color. I'm happy.

RE: m525
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/1/2001 1:09:24 PM #
To each his own, but it seems odd to me to "scrimp" on sending $50 for the color screen when you are paying $400+ for the device. Of course, if you just do not like the m505 screen, it makes sense - but I like it. :)

RE: m525
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/1/2001 2:11:54 PM #
I read a lot of books and short stories on my M500 while commuting on the subway. I felt the M505 wasn't clear enough for extensive reading. I had no other major needs for color.

As for the price, I only paid $350 for the M500 so at the time, the difference was $100. If the M525 screen is good, I will upgrade and pass on my M500 to my 8 year old. Her Palm V doesn't have enough memory for her games, books, pictures, etc. Problem is, she want's color too.

RE: m525
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/4/2001 3:20:07 PM #
I've got to say that I prefer the screen on the m505 better than that of the IIIc. A little dimmness inside is more than made up for by the ability to read it outside.

-fuzzy

RE: m525
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/23/2002 2:26:07 PM #
I just got a new 505 from the warrentee and I can't believe how much brighter the screen is.. I'm so much happier.

How are things in Madison?

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 11:38:47 AM #
I guess Pepper's back fom vacation...

?

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 11:45:56 AM #
Great, now palm will get backlogged on invetory again since anyone in their right mind would wait for the m525 instead of buying the m505. Or, if they want the m505 they'll wait for the price drop. Why let these rumors out. Loose lips sink palms.

RE: ?
Moosecat @ 8/31/2001 11:52:31 AM #
Again (I've made this point elsewhere), the m50x inventory problem was caused by Palm's OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT of the products long before launch. There was lots of media, lots of exposure.

That's very different from what we have here -- a rumor that will, by tomorrow, be disseminated to maybe 3 or 4 rather obscure web sites. Maybe one out of every one hundred PDA buyers is savvy (okay, nerdy) enough to read sites like PIC. The other 99 will happily plop their money down on the m505 in the next few months, oblivious to the possibility of something else coming along. They probably won't even know about the m525 until after it's released.

Remember -- and I'm guilty as charged -- we're a bunch of freaks, following itsy-bitsy news items religiously on Palm web sites. Most people are far more well-adjusted than us.

RE: ?
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 12:04:04 PM #
At last! Someone else is honest enough to admit that those of us who frequent this site are not completely normal!

RE: ?
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 12:16:26 PM #
> Great, now palm will get backlogged on invetory again since anyone in their right mind would
> wait for the m525 instead of buying the m505.

If that's the way you think, then there's no point in ever buying anything again because a better model is always in development. Don't buy a Sony 610, a better model is coming next year. Don't buy a new Ford Mustang, a better model is coming next year. Hell, don't buy a Big Mac, a better hamburger is in development.

All this rumor says is Palm is working on a replacement got the m505 that will be out in about 7 months. Bet you Handspring is working on replacements for some of its models that will be out sometime next year. And Sony. And Handera. If anyone is already thinking about upgrading, they should go ahead and buy now because by the time the m525 come out, there will be rumors of the next model. And so on, and so on.

RE: ? Consumer rights
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 12:46:38 PM #
As consumer, we have the right to gain information on product we plan to buy. The same is true with cars. That is what car magazines are for. You want to know what is the best product today and to get curious of what is coming in the future. That is why we are using palminfocenter even though it is mostly rumor. Rumor and information is available everywhere on the internet. You are the only that make the buying decision.

RE: ?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/2/2001 12:22:14 AM #
Car magazines usually talk about the models due to be released in the next 6 months, rarely (with certainty) about models that won't go into production till much later next year (except for rumors, just like here...) Next years car models are only a few percent "better", if that, so there isn't a problem that can't be solved by a minor dealer promotion (pay no interest for the first six months of your high interest loan, wow!!). Computers get at least 50% better every year, which renders old inventory about as valuable as a 15 year old Chevy.

Rumors about new m525
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/3/2001 8:43:59 PM #
I think this is total crap. If this is the case. Palm should recall all m505s and make them as brite as new m525s. Is this the punishment for loyal Plam customers, to be fooled by a product like m505. We already spent a small fortune on m505, thinking this is the innovative new screen...I was accepting new SD upgrades such as a wireless modem attachement or a long promised bluetotth deal, or a simple digital camera...

RE: ?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/3/2001 9:50:17 PM #
...Actually car magazines often project what cars are coming 2-3 years out with some degree of detail and are correct about 60-70% of the time dependent on what changed with that car company's plans between the article and the car materializing (or not) on the market.

We all know that any company works on the next model as soon as the engineering staff are freed up from the previous project (this is true of cars or Palms/PalmPC's). Also it always takes longer to make changes tham people project/like.

The bright side is we have Palm, Sony, HandEra (and others, especially in the area of peripherals) all innovating the platform bit by bit. This is better than the more restrictive progressions happening in the WinCE world due to Microsofts hold on the platform. So, we should all be grateful and make our individual buying decsions on what our needs/preferences are.

I just bought a 64MB SD card and it is of little use due to the restrictions of much of the software to date. I would welcome more internal memory, but also a footprint of the m505, 320x320 16bpp screen, wireless and a soft grafiti area...so I guess I will be waiting for 2+ years before I am changing my m505;-)


High-Resolutions w/ landscapable screen (virtual graffiti)

robrecht @ 8/31/2001 11:57:09 AM #
The improved screen should be high resolution (not just 16-bit 160x160) as well as landscapable screen (with virtual graffiti).

I would buy that, you guys at Palm, but otherwise I'll wait, unless Handspring beats you to it or SONY develops I/0 wireless peripherals, or Handera goes color, or PPC improves their battery.

This may be your last chance, Palm. Good luck!

RE: High-Resolutions w/ landscapable screen (virtual graffiti)
Cheetah @ 8/31/2001 1:01:47 PM #
I agree. I'll stick with my 505 unless:

1. hi res screen
and
2. virtual graffiti area

RE: High-Resolutions w/ landscapable screen (virtual graffiti)
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/2/2001 12:57:48 PM #
you guys sux!

Palm is not to "be beat by Sony or Handera". come on Palm licenses the OS to these company. Handera and Sony are licensees to palm or as Palm calls them Partners.

Palm can call them whatever they want...
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/2/2001 6:25:54 PM #
Sony and Handera are still better, and will win. Unless things turn around in a big way for Palm soon, Sony will solve its OS problem by buying Palm. Stick that in your zen and smoke it.

RE: High-Resolutions w/ landscapable screen (virtual graffiti)
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/2/2001 6:43:25 PM #
I use that expression all the time. Anyway, Palm inc. cannot make enough money just from the licensing fees to support their massive(and shrinking) company. No someone wont buy it eithin a year! No way. All i know is that palm WILL be bought pretty sonn(2-3years). Anyone who disagrees: Shove what you where about to say back in your Pie-Hole.

RE: High-Resolutions w/ landscapable screen (virtual graffiti)
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/1/2002 1:55:57 AM #
i use to use a palm 3 then a 5 then a clie s300 fallowed by a n710 and an n760 i know have a ipaq 3835 and it rocks. I like the palm os better but the fact is the new pocket pcs have so many more features that they make up for it.
voice recorder, virtual graphiti/transcriber/keyboard/letter recognizer
240x320 (not as good as clie 320x320 but it is bigger
good speaker (you can play mp3's through it)
pocket word/excel
voice recognition (through IBM ViaVoice embedded, included)
64megs internal, with 32mb flash, and accepts sd cards
206mhz processor
finally a lithium polymar battery 1400mah giving it twice the battery life of other pocket pc's (ennough to last several days, although certainly not as long as most palm's)
and it has many wireless upgrades available

RE: High-Resolutions w/ landscapable screen (virtual graffit
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/1/2002 8:32:09 AM #
> i know have a ipaq 3835 and it rocks.

Enjoy it while you can. I heard Microsoft is going to drop the PPC platforn this year if it doesn't start making some money. For the past five yeras MS has poured tens of millions of dollars a year into PPC and has hardly seen any return. It's embarassing.

Compaq and HP want out of their PPC contracts. Dell is beating them up bad with PCs and the iPaq and Jornada are huge money losers. Last year, Palm sold almost 3,000,000 handhelds. Compaq sold a tenth of that, 350,000.

MS has already said it is going to release .NET for Palm OS. This is a sign of the end for the PPC.

Source reliable???

robrecht @ 8/31/2001 12:08:24 PM #
Any comments at all on the source?

RE: Source reliable???
Ed @ 8/31/2001 1:02:27 PM #
I don't give out any information about my sources because I don't know what might be a clue to their identity. I would far rather you not believe this rumor because you know nothing about the source than have someone lose their job because they told it to me.

All I will say is this source seems quite reliable to me. He gave me an explanation of how he got this info and it was convincing. Telling you the story would almost certainly pinpoint his identity to someone so I can't share it.

If this means you dismiss this rumor as something I dreamed up, I'm OK with that. His privacy is more important than your belief.

---
News Editor

RE: Source reliable???
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 1:43:13 PM #
>If this means you dismiss this rumor as something I
>dreamed up, I'm OK with that. His privacy is more
^^^
>important than your belief.

A-ha!!! We've tricked you into eliminating 50% of all possible suspects! Viva la revolucion! =)

RE: Source reliable???
Moosecat @ 8/31/2001 1:53:07 PM #
Unfortunately, given the gender distribution of the Palm/PDA world, I'd say we've eliminated only about 10% of the possible suspects.

RE: Source reliable???
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 4:07:18 PM #
And besides, it never hurts to accidentally use the wrong gender set of pronouns when referring to a confidential informant. Some people just don't know how to lie. Some do.

Maybe his source is that mad scientist
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 4:07:18 PM #
Does anybody else imagine the comic book seller on The Simpsons when they think about Ed? I can hear his voice whenever I read something Ed's written.

The Simpsons Dude..
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 6:58:28 PM #
LOL!

Damn you! Now I'll always hear that voice when I read Ed's posts!

"Apparently, you intellect is not vast enough to envelope the importance of the issue you currenly hold. Even if you possesed the significant funds necessary to purchase this collector's item, I would not sell it to someone such as yourself incapable of grasing its significance. Please remove yourself from my place of business."

I love that guy!
And Ed!

RE: Source reliable???
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 8:52:06 PM #
At least we know it's not Pepper... :)

Palm Planning a M525 for next year...

Jim42688 @ 8/31/2001 12:20:52 PM #
Six months too late. I love my visor, and that Treo looks really cool, but Palm has to do something really quick to stay alive in this market with Pocket PC's.

Too little, too late

emmert @ 8/31/2001 12:18:40 PM #
I've been a faithful Palm user ever since the original Pilot. I hate to say it, but I am considering jumping ship. Palm is simply not progessing the OS quickly enough. Another year for very slight improvements is unreasonable. Palm has really squandered a great OS.

RE: Too little, too late
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 12:50:17 PM #
Another year? Palm will supposedly be releasing this in 7 months (March 2002). ARM-based Palm OS will be out around the middle of 2002. By this time next year, there _will_ be a leap forward with the OS.

RE: Too little, too late
superbenk @ 8/31/2001 12:56:29 PM #
Everyone keeps saying this, and yet Palm is still here and still leading the market (not with a 90% market share, but still...).

Didn't Macintosh die about 10 years ago? Funny how new ones keep coming out and people keep buying them. I wouldn't touch one with a 10ft pole, but that's a whole other subject.

RE: consider this
Cheetah @ 8/31/2001 12:58:48 PM #
before you jump to PPC, consider these issues:

1. size - no PPC today is the size of a 505
2. battery - no PPC today has the battery life of a 505. Barely get though a weekend with my iPaq
3. reliability - get ready for daily or weekly hotsync problems, and other M$ related software quality issues. A more complex PDA means more headaches.
4. software - if you use any specialized software, be sure to check that there is a PPC software that meets your needs.

RE: Too little, too late
Altema @ 8/31/2001 4:38:13 PM #
Also consider this: Pocket Word and Pocket Excel are THE major PPC applications, and are not as good as their Palm OS counterparts. We won't even mention screen image banding and sluggish response.

RE: Too little, too late
AriB @ 8/31/2001 5:14:27 PM #
sheesh why do you think Palm bought Be for? Palm on ARM with Be technologies should leave pocketpc in the dust

RE: Too little, too late
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 6:29:41 PM #
Yes but the palms with any Be technology will be released early 2003 at best.

RE: Too little, too late
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 8:58:56 PM #
Also consider this: Pocket Word and Pocket Excel are
THE major PPC applications, and are not as good as their Palm OS counterparts. We won't even mention screen image banding and sluggish response.

------------------------------------
Only the Casio is 16-bit colour, while the m505, Clie 610 and Handspring Prism is 16-bit. What banding?

Wordsmith can give PocketWord a run for its money (except it does cost a bit)

RE: Reliability
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/1/2001 12:24:12 PM #
As far as reliability is concerned -- I have those daily/weekly hotsync problems myself. Granted, it is on a Prism, but the platform is what was being spoken about. Handspring simply posted the process to go through the fix as opposed to fixing the problem when they released Palm Desktop 4.0.1... Just proof that any platform in this business has SOME issues.

Not trying to be a troll, just pointing out a counterpoint -- and if anyone from HS is reading this, fix the Win2k HotSync issue!

RE: Too little, too late
Altema @ 9/1/2001 1:21:42 PM #
Image Banding is a screen artifact on some LCD screens, it appears as a shadow or ghost of vertical lines. If you had a picture of a vertical bar that went halfway to the top of the screen, the shadow would extend almost to the top of the screen. This is different from color banding, where the changes in a shade of colors have bands instead of a smooth blend of colors. The HP Jordana has the most notable problem with image banding.

RE: Too little, too late
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/2/2001 3:02:33 AM #
yep tooo late. i just bought a 3660 ipaq. i waited for da m505 n when it came out man was i disappointed. da screen is DIM. clies here in manila r hard 2 find n if u do find one it costs us$700+. i got my ipaq at arnd us$560. 64mb, great screen, sleek features. im a palm user for 3 years. went frm da pilot, to palm III, to palm IIIx. upgraded da memory n bought softwares for it. i wanted an upgrade to color. but man palm blew it. if sony can release a better screen dan palm, den palm is not just doing its job well, to put it mildly.
m525? i think ill stick to ipaq.

RE: Too little, too late
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/2/2001 1:05:16 PM #
To the last poster:

Please say that again in English. I didn't understood a damn.

RE: Too little, too late
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/2/2001 6:49:40 PM #
--------------------------1. size - no PPC today is the size of a 505
2. battery - no PPC today has the battery life of a 505. Barely get though a weekend with my iPaq
3. reliability - get ready for daily or weekly hotsync problems, and other M$ related software quality issues. A more complex PDA means more headaches.
4. software - if you use any specialized software, be sure to check that there is a PPC software that meets your needs.-------------------------

To this poster! Also remember that M$ is coming out with Merlin within about 2 months. A lot if not all of these issues have already been adressed and most likely fixed.


Sorry palm! Goodby



Dear PPC Trolls,
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/2/2001 7:32:18 PM #
> Also remember that M$ is coming out with Merlin within about 2 months. A lot if not all of these issues
> have already been adressed and most likely fixed.

I wish I had a dollar for every time someone told me Microsoft's next version would fix all the problems with the current one. I've heard it a million times about everything they make. In the months before the Pocket PC came out people everywhere said it was the version of WinCE that would finally crush Palm. It didn't happen then and it won't happen now. WinCE is what 5 or 6 years old and still has less than 20 percent of the market. Its a niche product. Go home and lick Bill Gates' feet you MicroSerfs.

See MS Windows, Office, and IE.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/2/2001 8:58:03 PM #
.

RE: Too little, too late
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/3/2001 12:39:11 PM #
--------I wish I had a dollar for every time someone told me Microsoft's next version would fix all the problems with the current one. I've heard it a million times about everything they make. In the months before the Pocket PC came out people everywhere said it was the version of WinCE that would finally crush Palm. It didn't happen then and it won't happen now. WinCE is what 5 or 6 years old and still has less than 20 percent of the market. Its a niche product. Go home and lick Bill Gates' feet you MicroSerfs.

------------------

No actually PPC Os is only 2-3 years old. I am not saying that they will fix every issue, but I know for a fact that they will fix a lot. I noticed one in the screen shots that were posted at pdalive! There is an X icon at the top right of the screen like on a computer. That right there is a big improvement that needed little work. I am not a PPC troll. I happened to be a palm fanatic. But they have made some really bad decisions and that is what took me away from palm. Even if PPC only has 20% of the market, who gives. PPC is growing in market share, and palm is loosing its market share. When they meet at about 50% for each of these companies. That is when M$ is gonna kick in, and come out with something really revolutionary that will break the tie. PPC WILL be ahead of palm. Palm will go pretty low, and someone will buy it. That is the truth, and there is no escaping it.

RE: Too little, too late
Ed @ 9/3/2001 3:11:53 PM #
Just in the interests of keeping the facts straight, WinCE 1.0 launched in late 1996. PocketPC, a version of WinCE 3, came out in 2000. Take a look:
http://www.cewindows.net/wce/versions.htm

---
News Editor
RE: Too little, too late
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/4/2001 7:25:09 PM #
Thank ok fine 3-4 years or so

RE: Too little, too late
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/20/2001 10:47:14 AM #
Colour isn't the real issue. Palm and PPC address different market segments.
Palm is mainly for people who want an electronic filofax, that's easy to use and fits in your pocket. I suspect that PPC's are mainly bought by PC users already familiar with the Windows interface, who aren't worried about size & battery life or who want an MP3 player.

One of the main reasons that PPC market share is growing is because the large orders come from corporates who are starting to accept PDA's and are more comfortable dealing with Compaq(who they probably already have a relationship with)than Palm. Palm have to address this issue, perhaps by marketing the Palm's superior ease of use for executives and improving security features (e.g a signature based sign on when the Palm is switched on).

Insulting

Binks @ 8/31/2001 12:50:02 PM #
I am stunned by this. I faithfully bought an M505 expecting yet another great Palm product. What I got was an overly expensive headache. Not only did I have to exchange the m505 several times but the battery still doesn't charge while in the cradle.

With the additon of this it appears that either Palm already had this planned or released a unit that was inferior upon its release and is playing catch-up to the Clie.

I hadn't made up my mind about future Palm products but this seals the deal for me, I will never buy a Palm handheld again. The clie has the keyboard and is already ahead of Palm in design and features.

I can't keep lying to myself the m505 is okay but the existence of the m525 ensures that what I bought is second rate.

What a total scam.

RE: Insulting
rldunn @ 8/31/2001 1:00:12 PM #
I just shake my head every time I read a comment like this. Most of them recently have been from Clie 710 owners, and now we hear the same thing from an M505 owner.

Why would the release of a newer, better, more innovative product make you say you wouldn't buy that company's product ever again? To see how ridiculous this is, let's flip the statement around. It's the same thing as saying that if a company never released a newer, better, more innovative product, then you would stick with that company forever. Besides being impossible, you can see how dumb this logic is.

Earth to people making these comments, your device is exactly the same as it was before you knew about this forthcoming model. It has the same functionality, design, and display. If you were happy with it before, you should be happy with it now, or at the very least, be so much more happy that this wonderful company created a device that has managed to improve on your beloved device that you want to go out and purchase this new thing or at least admire it from afar.

Progress is not a bad thing!!!

RE: Insulting
Moosecat @ 8/31/2001 1:01:29 PM #
Not as much of a scam as what Sony pulled on Clie 710 buyers -- loading it with OS3.5, being all wishy-washy about the possibility of upgrading, and then (apparently) abandoning any upgrade path for the 710 entirely and launching a whole new model (770) with one difference from the 710: OS4.0. I'd be PISSED if I owned a 710.

RE: Insulting
Binks @ 8/31/2001 1:10:53 PM #
Ridunn,

I think I understand where you are coming from. I don't think that my m505 is less than it is now. But the changes that are coming out is nothing more than what the m505 should be. The new always on palm is innovative and comes out after quite a while after the release of the Palm VII. The difficulty that I have with this is that it resolves issues that have been raised since its release. If the newer model offers something truly innovative as opposed to fixing its previous "oversights" then I am all for it.

I suppose that what will really matter to me is if I can trade in my m505 for the m525 at a significant discount. The forward thinking m525 is more what a Clie is currently thus not innovative.

I supose that you do not have a m505 and thus haven't had to make the trade off and accepted some things. The m525 doesn't sit right with me and leaves a bad taste in my mouth, like a newer model car that has merely addressed the issues with the previous model the one you are stuck with.

I do feel that I have been given a lemon by Palm, I had to return it 3-4 times and it currently does not charge in the cradel if the unit is turned off, my other Palm's did not have this issue. It has been more of a headache then its worth. Palm should be ashamed as well about releasing this so closely to the release of the m505 which will syphon off sales as the m50x series did.

Frustrated.

Catch-22
rueyeet @ 8/31/2001 1:38:05 PM #
Palm just can't win.

A truly new and innovative product without major flaws takes time...there's the initial design, then that design has to be implemented and tested, then any improvements that the testing shows to be needed have to be designed, implemented, and tested in turn. Good design is a cycle, not a process with a beginning and end....products are released at a point in the cycle where it makes sense to the execs (not necessarily the engineers!) do so.

If Palm took the time to really do this right, and released products only at those points in the cycle where they were something truly new and innovative and special, everybody would be bitching about them not having a new product every year, or six months, or what have you. And some other company could take advantage of the lag, and release their product in the meantime, and grab a chunk of that sought-after market share.

So what do they do? They release a new product before the design cycle has quite come around enough to make it really new, whenever they have any little feature to add on, simply to stay in the game, all the while watching everyone else, and complicating the cycle by trying to add in all the stuff they think they have to do because everyone else is.

And everyone bitches that these products aren't revolutionary, only evolutionary, and gets peeved that whatever they buy, something better will be out in the next six months.

And all the companies, from Palm to Sony to Handspring to Handera to all the Pocket PC people, are doing pretty much the same dance. The only thing that makes them different is where they make the compromise between allowing time to design a truly innovative, quality product, and releasing products often enough to stay in the market.

Either way, someone's gonna complain.

--rueyeet the cheerful cynic

RE: Insulting
mikecane @ 8/31/2001 1:46:02 PM #
Moosecat wrote: Not as much of a scam as what Sony pulled on Clie 710 buyers -- loading it with OS3.5, being all wishy-washy about the possibility of upgrading, and then (apparently) abandoning any upgrade path for the 710 entirely and launching a whole new model (770) with one difference from the 710: OS4.0. I'd be PISSED if I owned a 710.

========

HandEra has not yet released OS4 for its H330, so why do you think Sony can do it any quicker? I'd hold off on bashing Sony until they *officially* state that an OS4 upgrade is a no-go.



RE: Insulting
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 2:53:35 PM #
Progress is progress. Everybody using a windows based machine has to go through these same pains.

RE: Insulting
rldunn @ 8/31/2001 3:13:44 PM #
Slightly off topic, but we just discussed a hot-button issue with 6 repliers and none of them were anonymous and all were civil in stating their points. Kind of a welcome relief.

RE: Insulting
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 3:22:30 PM #
Yeah, that's friggin awesome! All of the other threads on this page just plain suck, man. The "Insulting" thread rules!

RE: Insulting
mikecane @ 8/31/2001 3:38:48 PM #
RLDUNN: You know what that means?! It's time to vote off The Weakest Link!

RE: Insulting
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 7:39:11 PM #
Give me a break. When it debuts, you trash-talkers are going to be on that new m5xx like an ass on a saddle!! So stop it with the "I'm Outraged" and the "its too little too late". And what's with the feigned outrage anyway? Are we saying that a company should not improve its products after we've bought the first model? Hey as a 505 owner myself, I say if you live on the edge, you die on the edge.

Now drop and give me 50....

RE: Insulting
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 8:12:28 PM #
thank you! somebody who finally shares my view on this!

if you're gonna be cutting edge, it's your own fault for putting yourself in the early adopter shoes

RE: Insulting
Binks @ 9/1/2001 10:02:34 AM #
This is silly, I am not saying that people shouldn't buy a Palm or that Palm is crap or anything of the sort. What I am saying is that it seems that Palm released a "test" palm (m505) and when they realized their serious mistakes they are now releasing a competitive (m525) and solid answer to the clie. The marketing department either had a plan to do this or came up with it as an answer to the m505's problems. I just don't like being turned into a guinea pig for Palm, I also don't expect that the m505 was going to be numero uno forever but the slight alterations to it (m525) indicate that it is more of an fixed alternative and not addressing the issues that those who are saddled with the m505 would have appreciated more effort more testing before hand.

I could care less about a significant alteration, but don't call addressing the screen and adding RAM a leap forward thats just more BS. Like I said I will not buy the m525 or any other Palm model I will probably invest in the clie as it is the most competitive if not significantly better. For instance where is the jog-dial that everyone says would be a huge boon?

Palms incremental upgrades is atrocious and I wouldn't be surprized if they were seriously hurt by those early adapters being burned and not returning to do so again.

RE: Insulting
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/1/2001 2:31:33 PM #
Guess what, we are always guinea pigs now matter what we buy. Incremental improvement is better than no improvement at all.

Wow.......I can be guinea pig for the m535 if I just buy the m525.

Besides, if you are like me, you will be ready for the upgrade because you'll have worn out your m500/m505.

RE: Insulting
rueyeet @ 9/4/2001 11:46:32 AM #
What you seem to be saying, Binks, is that you believe that Palm deliberately released an inferior/test product when they knew they had a better one *already* developed, or just about to finish development.

For a company to say, "Well, we've got this great new product here, but we're gonna release this crappy test version first to see how many people we can scam" is just silly.

It's not like the supposed "improvements" of the m525 were already a reality when they released the m505, or they'd've released the m525 to begin with. But to stay in the market, they released what they had at the time.

Now they've finished whatever improvements they didn't have ready yet when the m505 came out, and will put them in the m525. Yes, they could have waited until the best version was finished before releasing anything....but then the best of their line would still be the III series and Vx, and they'd lose a LOT of customers to all the other companies who already had expansion slots.

Like I said, catch-22. Take the time to design it right the first time, and lose customers who are tired of waiting for something new. Or, keep releasing every incremental development just to stay in the market, and get blasted for "lack of innovation."

Palm has adopted the second strategy. So every time you buy a Palm, prepare for the announcements of something new and better to come a week after your purchase.

The thing about being on the cutting-edge is that the edge is always a moving target. :)

---rueyeet the redundant



It better have

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 12:58:59 PM #
A landscape screen would be cool, but I'm waiting on a real speaker. I don't care if they're saving $0.07 on them, I want a real one. If the HandEra was color, I'd be gone already.

RE: It better have
Islander @ 8/31/2001 4:12:13 PM #
Size dude size.
They can barely squeeze what they have in as it is.



RE: It better have
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 6:34:36 PM #
bah, whatever.

the handera isn't that much larger than a pIII, whose size I have no problems with. it's got a speaker, amp, and a mic for recording. give it to me in color and forget the price.

-fuzzy

Hanera: Uhhh-huh-huh....Touch the screen....:-)
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 7:07:25 PM #
I just bought the Handera.
I used to have a IIIc.
I gotta tell ya.

I'm runnin at 55mhz with a 64mb CF
and a 32mb SD. I've got 42 funny WAV files loaded on
Excel
Word
Virtual Graffiti
REALLY REALLY LOUD speaker (dude, it's REALLY loud)
Landscape
Hi-res

I stuck for a long time
But I had to say it.

F-uuuuuu-c-k color!
This is The bomb, bro! I ain't ever goin' back!

JOIN ME MY BRETHEREN!!!

RE: It better have
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/2/2001 10:04:17 AM #
>"the handera isn't that much larger than a pIII ..."

It's not larger than a Palm III. They're the same size, and the HandEra 330 is lighter than the Palm III, plus the 330 looks smaller to boot.

..and I bet that they are accepting preorders!

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 1:37:52 PM #
Yep. Probably just go to the search page and type in 525. Preorder it now then hold your breath (because we know about Palm and how they treat their bestest customers!) Do you think Palm learned anything from the 505 preorder SNAFU?

Bah!

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 2:01:20 PM #
Too little, too late.....

www.palmm525.com

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 4:10:21 PM #
I just checked www.palmm525.com and you won't believe what it points to!

****** NOTICE ******

The above statement is brought to you courtesy of the Preemptive Geek Post Project (PGPP), a grass-roots effort to consolidate the inevitable Geek postings into one specific area in an effort to free the remainder of this forum for interesting messages.

If the above was something you were going to do then there is no need to actually post a comment. Thank you.


RE: www.palmm525.com
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 5:04:37 PM #
Damn! I also found there a Tech Note from Satan about using MemoPad to go from 16-bit to 128-bit color on the m525! Geez!

From Satan
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/1/2001 4:45:29 PM #
I believe you mean 64 bit.

RE: www.palmm525.com
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/3/2001 7:56:17 PM #

I just checked www.palmm525.com and you won't believe what it points to!

And that would be... drum roll, please... absolutely nothing.

Oh just stop it!!!!

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 4:56:39 PM #
Give me a break. When it debuts, you trash-talkers are going to be on that new m5xx like an ass on a saddle!! So stop it with the "I'm Outraged" and the "its too little too late". And what's with the feigned outrage anyway? Are we saying that a company should not improve its products after we've bought the first model? Hey as a 505 owner myself, I say if you live on the edge, you die on the edge.

Now drop and give me 50....

RE: Oh just stop it!!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 10:42:15 PM #
You said it perfectly. I bought one of the first IPAQ ppc and it was very cool but the screen always got dust in it somehow. I went through not one but two generations of IPAQs and still the dust came. I got a full refund from Compaq and bought the m505. Its been over three months and not a speck of dust under the screen. I personally would get the m525

RE: Oh just stop it!!!!
Altema @ 9/1/2001 1:36:50 PM #
I'll also be taking a look at the M525 when it comes out. Early adopters usually run the risk of being early orphans too, but the 505 solved my major headaches in spades: not enough space, no silent alert options. Now I have 72Mb of space, color, and TWO types of silent alerts. I think people had a MAJOR problem with the screen being silver-gray instead of white, but once you get past the mental hurdle that silver-gray is not supposed to be white anyways, you'll be OK.

BTW: just so I don't have a thousand Clie users jump me in the parking lot, I was at CompUSA yesterday and someone asked me about handhelds because they could not get a sales person. I don't work there, but I sold him on the Clie because it was the most suited for his purposes. He WAS going to buy a cheaper PPC. Just goes show there is no one handheld device which is perfect for everyone.

RE: Oh just stop it!!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/2/2001 1:15:03 PM #
I am with you man! I have a palm m505, I complain about the 525 being released early. But I am sure I will be the first inline to order the m525 when it is out.

By the way, the clie's screen is also made by Sony like the Ipaq. The clie has the same dust problems as the ipaq.

Conspiracy Theory #1

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 5:09:21 PM #
It is a rumor started by Microsoft to slow sales of all the existing Palm OS models!

No, really!

RE: Conspiracy Theory #1
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/2/2001 6:56:55 PM #
that is a definate possibility.

RE: Conspiracy Theory #1
Spock9 @ 9/4/2001 3:18:51 PM #
I would not doubt it for a minute. It seems that MS keeps coming up with false information regarding Palm and the capabilities of the Palm devices and broadcasting it as fact. I wonder if anyone at Palm has looked at attacking the false and misleading advertising practices of the PPC crowd.

tagged leak

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 5:54:14 PM #
I think that this is a tagged leak so palm can find out who is leaking their new models. (FCC excluded. )

RE: tagged leak
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 6:47:38 PM #
You can always count on someone to say that, whenever there's a rumor. But you'll never really know, will you?

RE: tagged leak
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/4/2001 12:13:28 PM #
If they were smart, palm would release a rumor like this and watch pages like pic to know what user want, here i'll make it simple

1. high-resolution landscape color screen.
2. a real speaker
3. periphials, by serial "universal connector" CF or SDIO, we don't really care

now would that be so hard?

--fuzzy

RE: tagged leak
JanSolo @ 9/14/2001 4:57:50 AM #
I talked to a friend that works in QA at Palm. They tell me that the person who was leaking things out, for instance the new Palm 7 series with notification, was a salesperson at Palm. Apparently, that person was found out and fired.

The new Palm 7 is now called Everest. Kind of a stupid code name for it.. worse than Skywalker I suppose.

Staying ahead of the curve

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 6:14:44 PM #
They ought to double the RAM and Flash RAM. By the time next March rolls around, 16M will be inadequate; and 4M flash not enough for the OS....

RE: Staying ahead of the curve
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 6:32:26 PM #
then with bigger flashrom you start getting real bloatware. 4 mb is good enough.

RE: Staying ahead of the curve
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 6:38:16 PM #
now that storage is increasing, programs will follow. DLL HELL returns

RE: Staying ahead of the curve
Altema @ 9/1/2001 1:58:03 PM #
With 4Mb of flash, OS 4 only takes up a little more than half, even with VFS support. If Palm OS gets past 4Mb, it would probably be because it was re-written by MicroSoft. Speaking of space, does anyone know why McFile suddenly expired on me? It's freeware, and I did not see an option to register anywhere.

RE: Staying ahead of the curve
Davy @ 9/1/2001 2:10:04 PM #
McFile is not freeware, version 2.03b simply expired, and like powerrun, there is nowhere to register. I know the m505 Yahoo Group has the latest version that still works, and is avaialable at

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/m505

RE: Staying ahead of the curve
Altema @ 9/1/2001 6:30:23 PM #
Thanks! Ver 2.0b4 of McFile works, none of the earlier ones are working now. Hope a way to register comes up.

Rumor or not?

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 7:18:27 PM #
Many asked about the identity (okay, we know he's male, isn't she=) of the source and
is this a rumor.....

So look in the past and ask yourself how many wrong rumors or fakes did you read posted by Ed in this forum?

And then take this percentage to see your personal rumor estimation ....!

See you in the queques for the m525 in the shops around the world in 2002

WAB

RE: Rumor or not?
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 8:22:40 PM #
All I know is that about 10 days ago on another website forum (PDABuzz), a person who had the same handle as a frequent poster at PIC was having a little fun saying s/he knew a fair amount about Palm's upcoming devices, but didn't want to say too much, for fear of getting caught. This person would confirm and deny questions, but most of the questions were lame. This person stopped repsonding, saying that they were going to be out of town for the next week and a half, and "if this thread is still active maybe I will tell you a little more" (a paraphrased quote). This person also claimed to be the user of the same handle here at PIC, and used that to vouch for their trustworthiness. I tended to believe him/her, whether that was naive of me or not. If you don't put a little trust in people sometimes, you shouldn't bother with the rumor-mongering at all.

Anyway, within 24 hours of when this person stopped posting and was allegedly out of town, someone else on the thread suggested that the person who was worried about getting caught could simply post what they know anonymously on the thread. To my knowledge, no one ever did.

But let's say this person comes back from wherever they were and decides that's not such a bad idea. Of course, why would they post that info on an obscure thread among the many active threads at PDABuzz when they could give a boost to the Palm-related website with whome their loyalties primarily lie? And so, 10 days later (or so--I can't remember exactly), here we are.

BTW, the reason I won't say who it was is out of fear that this message will be deleted (not that Ed deletes messages often, but he still has to protect his sources, doesn't he?). But look around and maybe you can figure it out for yourself.

RE: Rumor or not?
Pepper @ 9/1/2001 4:34:00 PM #
Okay, I will say this once and for the record:

I DID NOT GIVE ED ANY INFO ON THE M525!!!!

Thankyou,
-Pepper

I love my Palm . . . do you?

RE: Rumor or not?
EdwardGreen @ 9/1/2001 5:18:47 PM #
Pepper Spake Thus:

I DID NOT GIVE ED ANY INFO ON THE M525!!!!

--

So you admit you are aware of such an advice ...
:o)

--

Just wait 'til PalmSource then we'll know what's going on. (anyone wanna pay for me to go - including return flights from blighty and a nice hotel?)

-
kHiTeDev

RE: Rumor or not?
Altema @ 9/1/2001 5:52:08 PM #
Hi Pepper, welcome back! Oh, and thanks for confirming the source, we all had our suspicions...

RE: Rumor or not?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/23/2001 2:05:44 AM #
I don't mean to pick on our words, but any information is a rumor until it is release "officially". Think about the definition of the word, "rumor."

Two Cents


Yawn.

mj6798 @ 9/1/2001 2:10:29 PM #
Same old limited OS, same slow processor. Palm: stop tinkering and get on with the new ARM-based Palms. If they aren't out by early 2002, you might as well get out of the market.

RE: Yawn.
Altema @ 9/1/2001 5:47:22 PM #
Even the current models are twice as responsive as PPC, but if you want a Palm that's 10 times faster, that's fine with me!

RE: Yawn.
mj6798 @ 9/2/2001 2:27:14 AM #
Palms are "twice as responsive" because they do very little and can't access a lot of memory. I want to be able to carry around a reference library, run a GIS, zoom and scroll around large images, and/or do speech recognition, and the Palm is just not up to it.

Yes, WinCE/PocketPC is pretty awful and somewhat inefficient. But at least it is moving forward. And there are a few alternatives to it. The Palm platform, on the other hand, is completely stagnant.

RE: Yawn.
Altema @ 9/3/2001 2:16:55 PM #
With the exception of voice recognition, I do everything else you mention on a daily basis (It's nice working in an IT group, as you can compare these things head to head).
I have entire hospital floor plans, three reference sets with a total of 255 volumes, a few novels, six relational databases, four flat file databases, nine spreadsheets with special formatting that Pocket Excel wont't do, eleven manuals and documents which are too complex for Pocket Word, seven music videos and movie clips (including a NASA walkthrough of the ISS), Minidisc titling software which pulls the data from the web to automatically title your recordings, IRDA printing software, planet position locator for our solar system, and imaging software which lets me take and store digital photos.

And I still have 32.2Mb free


It's more a case of not being aware of what Palm OS devices can do...

RE: Yawn.
JanSolo @ 9/14/2001 5:00:28 AM #
I know Palm has been working on implementing a HAL for quite some time (maybe two years or so?) but has yet to bring it forth due to ... technical difficulties.

I just hope they can actually do something with Be's Stinger. Maybe move it to the licensed Motorola ARM chip and make an OS that can actually play music.

When I was working at Palm, I asked one of the dev engineers about maybe putting MP3 playback on a Palm. His response? "We're looking into it". A year or two later, NOTHING. They have this little internal web site running a Cobalt Cube where they have pics of all their competitors hw taken apart and looked at. Too bad they have not learned anything from it!

Palm new models

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/1/2001 2:23:11 PM #
I like information the new Palm, Sony Make Clie 760 with Intel ARM 66Mhz., Palm make Handhead Intel ARM with 100Mhz...
Palm is the LIDER bad I dont have information about news.
What Prossedador the new model palm?
What speed the new Palm , 66, 100Mhz.??
What RAM
What ROM
Regards apeyre@phototechnik.com.ar
Is possible spanish

Palm would be dead if there were no CLIE

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/2/2001 1:16:22 PM #
I was ready to switch to PPC and buy a Ipaq when Palm came out with M505. Sony CLIEN710C made me stick with Palm OS. Palm better get their act together soon. I see another Netescape VS Internet Explorer duel. We all know what happen to that fight....

RE: Palm would be dead if there were no CLIE
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/2/2001 2:28:27 PM #
Using the IE vs Netscape analogy, MS keeps coming with new & better WinCE os. There is a new PPC os coming in September & more hardware companies signed up to make PPC. Palm is slow in coming up with technology innovation. The new Palm devices still use the old craffiti. I think Palm will enventually become like Apple computer. I predict that Palm will only own a small percentage of the PDA market in the next three years.

RE: Palm would be dead if there were no CLIE
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/2/2001 6:31:24 PM #
I predict that Palm will become another Betamax, because Sony will buy Palm and then cancel the licensing agreements with HS, Handera, Panasonic, etc. And then most people will be afraid to buy.

RE: Palm would be dead if there were no CLIE
JanSolo @ 9/14/2001 5:06:03 AM #
I think Weird Carl Yankowski is going to bring the company DOWN. A lot of people there are pissed off at him for not being more agressive.

Why not email him asking him why he sucks ass? Anyone want him email address? Post it here and I will make it available!

I'm going to wait and see

palmguy26 @ 9/2/2001 7:32:59 PM #
Palm made such a big deal on their website about the Palm m505 a while ago, saying it was "brilliant." I think it's more like "washed out." The color quality on the m525 better be good. If it isn't satisfying, Palm better go back to the drawing board again (it's not like they've never had to). My goal for a handheld is to have a slim handheld with good color quality. Who do you think is going to be first, Palm, Sony, or Handspring?

RE: I'm going to wait and see
palmguy26 @ 9/2/2001 7:37:41 PM #
I meant to say my goal is to buy a PDA that is slim and has very good color quality.

RE: I'm going to wait and see
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/2/2001 10:00:21 PM #
I'm sorrry, but isnt there something called a CLIE 710?

RE: I'm going to wait and see
Altema @ 9/2/2001 10:42:11 PM #
Yes, there is a Clie 710, which IMHO probably has the best quality screen to date. But every feature on the device is not perfect. That perfect device does not exist. If you include the best of everything, people will complain about hardware feature bloat. If you take off some of the features, people will say it is missing something. So what could possibly be wrong with a device having a great screen? Nothing, unless you need to put a memory stick in your wallet for backups, and it breaks. Or you need to view spreadsheets in landscape mode utilizing the virtual grafitti area. Or you need silent alarm functions. Or you need a screen big and bright enough to read from several feet away. Or if you need more than one type of expansion card. The list could go on, and it could go on for any brand. We are individuals, and so are PDA's. This is not meant to be a harsh post, just something to say we choose our handhelds for different reasons...

CLIE is TOO SLOWWWWW compared to m505.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/3/2001 12:33:51 PM #
I need speed! I don't like the spongy screen either.

It is too Slow
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/3/2001 2:39:45 PM #
I agree with the post above. I was really surprised, moving between applications on the Sony, as to how slow it was compared to the Palm. Really wanted to buy the Sony because of the beautiful screen, but the delay between apps was very annoying. Gave up on color for now and went for the m500, can't beat the form factor.

RE: I'm going to wait and see
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/30/2001 12:18:31 PM #
PALM, add to "TREO", good color resolution, slot to accept MMC/SD cards, MP3 connection and at least 32 MB RAM than we will see.

RE: I'm going to wait and see
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/30/2001 12:49:20 PM #
... and it needs to detect tachyon emissions.

Get real!

Guess you want to buy my m505 for $100, right?

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/2/2001 8:43:34 PM #
This is BULL!!!
And you won't get secondhands cheaper.
Go buy one in the shop at shut the **** up with this crap

Good, but...

sremick @ 9/4/2001 12:11:01 AM #
First of all, I want to say that people bashing the m505 need to step back for a minute. For the full details of my reasoning on why you shouldn't complain about the m505, search USENET using Google Groups or whatever for my post.

But what people CAN complain about is the lack of an updated version of the IIIc. The color issues in the m505 are due to its size, plain and simple. There are people who don't CARE about size and want better color on Palm-brand hardare. The technology for this exists and should be applied immediately to cater to this group.

I can live with color on something the size of my Vx that's less than units twice as big (or more) because that's the reality of the technology. But there are a lot of people for whom color quality is more important that size... perhaps more than the market for color on the super-thin (V/Vx/m500/m505) line. Palm needs to work on this, and soon.



RE: Good, but...
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/4/2001 8:17:29 AM #
Agreed.

That's why I switched to a Casio EM500. A large PDA is just fine for my big hand. I don't mind charging my PDA every night and it's not a problem for me to carry a backup battery. But I won't settle for a second rate, or in the case of the 505 a third rate, screen.

I didn't want to leave Palm, and I didn't want to buy Microsoft. But Palm is NEVER going to build me a PDA I can read anywhere, anytime.

My two cents
JDM @ 9/4/2001 2:11:08 PM #
I couldn't agree more with the two comments above. A classic example of 'each to his own' My m505 is my first Palm. Previously I have tried both a Casio em500 and (very briefly) an Ipaq. The colur screens on these two devices were both very good, better than the m505's, but they were both to bulky for me to carry around every day. I found that I was leaving my organiser at home more often 'cos it wouldn't fit comfortably in my jacket pocket.

I wasn't very sure about the PPC operating system, it did seem ok at the time, but now I've started using Palm I'll never go back. For me once you've added the simplicity of the palm o/s to the form factor advantage you've got the perfect handheld (in my opinion).

Probably my only gripe with Palm is that they seem to take so long in developing thier products. We are already starting to see bluetooth and 802 wireless products for the PPC but when will I be able to get the same thing for my m505?

----------------------------------------
JDM

Earth...mostly harmless.

I bet Sony will have something better...

fparter @ 9/4/2001 10:28:46 PM #
I just saw this advertisement from a nationwide retailer:

Palm m505, $450, 8MB, 160x160
Clie , $400, 8MB, 320x320

Why would anyone get an m505 when the Clie is cheaper and has better resolution? I bet Sony
will beat them the next time out as well.

Maybe Palm Inc should focus on the OS and let other make the hardware.

RE: I bet Sony will have something better...
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/23/2001 2:10:31 AM #
Yes, even if this rumor about m525 is all true, it all just seems like Palm is playing catch-up with Sony. People talk about waiting for m525 for its hi-res or Audio, but Sony's got those already. Imagine what Sony will have by next March. They're are pouring tons of money into the Clie's. I tried to be faithful to Palm, but my denial is over...and Palm's days are over.

I was faithful to Palm by buying m505 and enjoyed it for a while, but I guess I was in denial, because the Clie just blows it out of the water. Damn.

BEFORE: I don't need to listen to MP3's on my handheld. I'd rather carry a CD/MP3 player. My PDA is not supposed to be a multimedia powerhouse.
NOW: I am jealous as hell that the dude sitting next to me is listening to his favorite album (while he reads AvantGo).

BEFORE: Double the res doesn't help that much. Doesn't make me organize my address book better.
NOW: I can read the news without squinting on the Clie. Look at those grainy images of Palm.

BEFORE: The dark screen won't bother me, and it saves battery-life. I don't have to charge it for weeks!
NOW: I have to keep the backlight on all the time, so I have to charge the damn thing every other day.

BEFORE: SD Card is the coolest thing ever.
NOW: Nothing else is compatible with SD card. I ended up getting a Sony Camcorder that supports the memory stick. What the heck. and where are all those add-ons they promised? I thought that was ONE advantage of Palm over Sony.

BEFORE: Palm m505 is smaller and lighter.
NOW: I can't tell the damn difference between m505 and Clie. I can hold Sony better because it is much skinnier. It ends up fitting in my pocket better too.

For 50 bucks more, I should have just bought the Clie 710. Honestly, I was one of those people who supported m505 over Clie, but that changed after I took a very serious look at them both. People who still support m505 over Clie PEG-N710C really have not tried the Clie enough. (actually, most people se the difference immediatley when they check out the resolution)

New hardware: only part of the problem

I.M. Anonymous @ 10/11/2001 10:27:05 PM #
As the number of applications you can put on your Palm increases (given the increasing options for expanding memory), the operating system is becoming the major problem in terms of usability. I am really tired of having my Palm completely unusable for anything else while I am picking up my email. The Palm operating system needs to be able to handle multiple programs running simultaneously. I am no fan of Microsoft operating systems, but the iPaq can run rings around my Palm: look up a phone number while doing email, browse the web while touching up a Word document. This is very reminiscent of the problems of MS-DOS to those of us who were used to multi-tasking operating systems. It took Microsoft an amazingly long time to figure out that a PC needs a multitasking operating system just as much as larger computers do. Now the same is true for hand-helds. The question is whether Palm understands this before PalmOS is abandoned.


RE: New hardware: only part of the problem
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/23/2002 2:07:24 PM #
"This is very reminiscent of the problems of MS-DOS to those of us who were used to multi-tasking operating systems."
Thanks to Quarterdeck software, even MS-DOS can multitask. Thanks to Kadak, even the PalmOS can multi-task (and does). One developer I know DID licence from Kadak so that their apps could make use of the Multi-tasking in the kernel. They can do email in the background...

Sidelight on for eight hours?

I.M. Anonymous @ 12/8/2001 1:45:55 AM #
"It will also have a battery capable of keeping the enhanced screen's sidelight on for eight hours."

Is that to show the enhanced power system or is the light meant for another purpose ... like e-books?

Staples M515

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/2/2002 10:11:50 PM #
I just purchased a m515 at Staples. Much nicer screen brighter isnt the word, Good for you palm keep it up.


Ray
South Windsor, CT

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