Rumor: Palm Planning m525 for Next Year

It will probably not come as a surprise to anyone that Palm is already working on a successor for the m505. According to a source, the m525 will have an improved color screen and 16 MB of RAM. It will also have a battery capable of keeping the enhanced screen's sidelight on for eight hours. It will be announced in March of next year at Cebit 2002 in Hannover Germany.

However, according to this source, the m525 won't immediately replace the m505. Instead, the m500 will be discontinued and the m505 and m525 will be available simultaneously, with the m505 costing less than the m525.

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Another rumor...

wilco @ 8/31/2001 11:18:40 AM #
It just keep coming... March next year is too far. They should release it closer to the Christmas selling season. The Specs if true, is really what the m505 should have been.

RE: Another rumor...
EdwardGreen @ 8/31/2001 2:12:38 PM #
Hmmm. I will be really worried if Palm doesn't have PalmOS 5 sorted by CeBiTT ... unless this is a 320x320 Arm based piece of kit.

-
kHiTeDev
RE: Another rumor...
JanSolo @ 9/14/2001 4:51:02 AM #
I used to work at Palm. I know how it works on the inside.

Palm's product council is VERY slow on making decisions and are very pathetic when it comes to making anything good. A lot of them are old useless ex-Apple people who were poor performers there and are equally useless now. Why else would Palm's competitors be kicking their asses when it comes to design and innovation so easily?

''I used to work at Palm. I know how it works on the inside.''
I.M. Anonymous @ 12/8/2001 1:54:24 AM #
The speed to market may be do to the fact that they are a hardware and software vendor. No company in their right mind is going to invest in R@D and use Palm OS if Palm just keeps coming out with better products. So Palm has to hold back to sell their OS.

Palm has the minds, if they keep holding back to satisfy their partnerships they may start losing more people. They need to decide what their core business really is, find some hardware innovators and bring them on board.

Suggestion:

Split hardware and OS into two groups under different companies. There are some really innovative hardware people. There just not in your face and really quite.

John Lennon once said, "give peace a chance", will a little peace to some never heard about person with vision might be the way to go.

Have you been living in a cave?
I.M. Anonymous @ 12/8/2001 3:35:45 AM #
> The speed to market may be do to the fact that they
> are a hardware and software vendor. No company in
> their right mind is going to invest in R@D and use
> Palm OS if Palm just keeps coming out with better
> products. So Palm has to hold back to sell their OS.

Nonsense. Palm is not holding back. They simply are unable to compete now that several other vendors are offering better models.


> Suggestion:

> Split hardware and OS into two groups under
> different companies.

Like what they're doing? Everyone knows Palm can't make profits from OS sales alone. Over 90% of their income is derived from hardware sales. (If they sell 2 million copies of PalmOS per year to Handspring, Sony, Symbol, etc. for $9/copy, this generates only $20 million/year. Hardly a drop in the bucket for a company previously "worth" ove 50 BILLION dollars.)

"Sources say ..."

Moosecat @ 8/31/2001 11:31:11 AM #
Without outing the source, can we have any more information about the veracity of this rumor? How inside is this person?

On an unrelated note, what's with Palm's ridiculously long product pipeline? Almost a YEAR after release of the m505, they will release an updated version with an "improved screen" and more memory? Sheesh... I guess they want to milk the m505 as long as they can, and are betting that Sony doesn't have the clout with average joe PDA purchaser to demolish the m505 in the next few months. (Which I think is fair to assume on Palm's part.)

RE:
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 11:39:43 AM #
It's all in the marketing. Look at cars, same idea, we could get the "car of the future" today, but that would not give us the fun of anticipating the new designs and spending more money.
I have the M505, upgraded from the Palm Professional, and will be very content to wait another 2-3 more years until there is a substantial difference.
With tech products, you will go nuts if you need to have the very latest all the time.
I better get used to latest Palm becoming obsolete again :)

RE:
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 11:46:21 AM #
Better move to the Clie. What's the use of the 16MB RAM anyway?

16 MB is important to many
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 11:54:14 AM #
Many people, especially Medical users and 4 MB AvantGo users would love to have 16 MB.

RE:
kevdo @ 8/31/2001 11:56:00 AM #
>What's the use of the 16MB RAM anyway?

You're kidding, right?

RE:
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 12:01:14 PM #
Maybe he is, but I'm not. With expansion, who cares how much internal RAM you have? It's not that big of a difference.

RE:
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 12:01:54 PM #
"Better move to the Clie. What's the use of the 16MB RAM anyway?"

Get off your "Sony Rules" kick, will you? And what are you smoking on the 16mb question? You're a f***ing idiot!



RE:
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 12:58:13 PM #
Yeah!!! Let's kick his ass!

Got me 16MB of RAM
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 1:35:25 PM #
I think the more RAM, the better. The expansion memory on the Palm isn't seamless and there are still programs that won't work or don't work well with the SD card. How could 16MB RAM not be an improvement?

E Cartman Press Release for Palm Inc
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 1:38:55 PM #
yeah yeah kick his ass. to quote the venerable eric cartman 'i hate you guys, i hate you guys, i hate you guys so very much'. i am going to crawl back into my cube, call our legal department, ask them to memo this Ed guy and try and take his site down. next i am going to call security and find out who the mole is that keeps leaking info to this Ed guy. i can't even take a piss without you palm infocenter guys knowing what is going on. i am suprised that you have found out the rate of alcoholism in our PR department. its pretty high, thats why we can't do a damn thing write.

-Brian
Sr Consultant
Troll Management and Relations
Palm Inc
btroll@palm.com

ps on a serious note, once again great job to Ed for bringing us the breaking news.

RE:
mikecane @ 8/31/2001 1:42:36 PM #
16MB of RAM as the Holy Grail. Meanwhile, I just read a review yesterday at The Gadgeteer of an iPaq being stuffed with *128MB* of RAM. Just goes to show how different platforms have different perceptions of RAM. (Although I wouldn't mind a 128MB CLIE...)

RE:
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 2:51:24 PM #
To the kid who said:
"Get off your "Sony Rules" kick, will you? And what are you smoking on the 16mb question? You're a f***ing idiot!"

Are you sure you need a palm and not a laptop? You make me laugh.

What are you using your internal memory for? Avantgo? Games? Dictionary? Books? I say, improve VFS support.

RE:
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 3:03:59 PM #
umm guys, for those of you who haven't tried a hi-res clie for at least a month yet, please do, before you get angry to pro-clie users. i used an m505 for a month before i switched to a clie 610 and never did regret my decision. my .02

as for internal memory, let's be reminded that the palm uses it to store programs. not until the external memory, you would crave for higher internal memory capacity. are we missing the point? if vfs is improved, i will be happy with zero internal ram and a 128mb expansion card.

RE:
mikecane @ 8/31/2001 3:40:29 PM #
One of the Anon fellows said: I say, improve VFS support.

AMEN!

RE:
Altema @ 8/31/2001 4:16:56 PM #
VFS support needs work, but 16 MB of native RAM would be nice, as the apps run quicker without going to the card. I keep my most frequently used apps in RAM or flash, and everything else on the card. Having a 72Mb machine is great, but remember that the native RAM is used for application working space. I wish they had come out with this sooner, I might have held on to the IIIc a little longer. BTW: I DO need a laptop that fits in my pocket, the rest of the guys here at work can get their arms stretched out by lugging their 40 pound laptop bags... :-)

Get a clue!
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 4:23:42 PM #
"as for internal memory, let's be reminded that the palm uses it to store programs. not until the external memory, you would crave for higher internal memory capacity. are we missing the point? if vfs is improved, i will be happy with zero internal ram and a 128mb expansion card."

ROTFLMAO!

I hope you're happy with your 128MB brick, because that's all it'll be without RAM!


RE:
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 4:42:51 PM #
Hey "ROTFLMAO!",
I have an experiment for you. Fill up your Internal RAM with apps. When it's full, try to run an app, say the calculator app. Do you think it will run even if you have used up your Internal RAM? ;)



RE: RAM vs. VFS
GrouchoMarx @ 8/31/2001 5:36:24 PM #
Yes it will, actually. The PalmOS uses execute in place program execution, so apps run exactly where they already are in RAM. There is a separate few hundred kb reserved for currently running programs for the stack and the heap. That's why the PalmOS is so fast compared to WinCE's split memory archetecture which mimics a desktop filesystem with a separate "storage" and "active" area. There is an overhead required when programs are "loaded". Such a load time does not exist on the Palm. Unless, of course, the program is on an expansion card, in which case you do have to load it from the card to RAM. That's why internal RAM is superior: It's natural, and there is no copy-and-load time.

--GrouchoMarx

RE:
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 5:51:16 PM #
Actually, no. Programs like CardPro on the HandEra won't work without at least 100kb free. They just fail with an error box telling you to delete some programs. Other programs like Noah Pro and Wordsmith use the free ram to set up temporary cache files and won't run without enough open space.

You obviously haven't been in development...
reidjazz @ 8/31/2001 5:53:34 PM #
...of any hardware/software product. Unless you're a huge company with large resources,
product schedules are often many months to a year.

reidjazz

m525

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 11:32:46 AM #
I am now moving from Palm to Clie but if this right i will wait.

RE: m525
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 11:40:08 AM #
This is why I bought the m500 instead of the color version. I guessed that Palm would announce an improved color screen sometime within the 12 months following the introduction of the 505. And 16 megs RAM? Wow! I'll hold on to my new Palm (I do love the little grey-scaled bastard, though) until the m525 (please, rumor, be true) is available. --Oxhead.

RE: m525
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 7:37:12 PM #
I did the same. Bought an m500 waiting for better color. I'm happy.

RE: m525
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/1/2001 1:09:24 PM #
To each his own, but it seems odd to me to "scrimp" on sending $50 for the color screen when you are paying $400+ for the device. Of course, if you just do not like the m505 screen, it makes sense - but I like it. :)

RE: m525
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/1/2001 2:11:54 PM #
I read a lot of books and short stories on my M500 while commuting on the subway. I felt the M505 wasn't clear enough for extensive reading. I had no other major needs for color.

As for the price, I only paid $350 for the M500 so at the time, the difference was $100. If the M525 screen is good, I will upgrade and pass on my M500 to my 8 year old. Her Palm V doesn't have enough memory for her games, books, pictures, etc. Problem is, she want's color too.

RE: m525
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/4/2001 3:20:07 PM #
I've got to say that I prefer the screen on the m505 better than that of the IIIc. A little dimmness inside is more than made up for by the ability to read it outside.

-fuzzy

RE: m525
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/23/2002 2:26:07 PM #
I just got a new 505 from the warrentee and I can't believe how much brighter the screen is.. I'm so much happier.

How are things in Madison?

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 11:38:47 AM #
I guess Pepper's back fom vacation...

?

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 11:45:56 AM #
Great, now palm will get backlogged on invetory again since anyone in their right mind would wait for the m525 instead of buying the m505. Or, if they want the m505 they'll wait for the price drop. Why let these rumors out. Loose lips sink palms.

RE: ?
Moosecat @ 8/31/2001 11:52:31 AM #
Again (I've made this point elsewhere), the m50x inventory problem was caused by Palm's OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT of the products long before launch. There was lots of media, lots of exposure.

That's very different from what we have here -- a rumor that will, by tomorrow, be disseminated to maybe 3 or 4 rather obscure web sites. Maybe one out of every one hundred PDA buyers is savvy (okay, nerdy) enough to read sites like PIC. The other 99 will happily plop their money down on the m505 in the next few months, oblivious to the possibility of something else coming along. They probably won't even know about the m525 until after it's released.

Remember -- and I'm guilty as charged -- we're a bunch of freaks, following itsy-bitsy news items religiously on Palm web sites. Most people are far more well-adjusted than us.

RE: ?
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 12:04:04 PM #
At last! Someone else is honest enough to admit that those of us who frequent this site are not completely normal!

RE: ?
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 12:16:26 PM #
> Great, now palm will get backlogged on invetory again since anyone in their right mind would
> wait for the m525 instead of buying the m505.

If that's the way you think, then there's no point in ever buying anything again because a better model is always in development. Don't buy a Sony 610, a better model is coming next year. Don't buy a new Ford Mustang, a better model is coming next year. Hell, don't buy a Big Mac, a better hamburger is in development.

All this rumor says is Palm is working on a replacement got the m505 that will be out in about 7 months. Bet you Handspring is working on replacements for some of its models that will be out sometime next year. And Sony. And Handera. If anyone is already thinking about upgrading, they should go ahead and buy now because by the time the m525 come out, there will be rumors of the next model. And so on, and so on.

RE: ? Consumer rights
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/31/2001 12:46:38 PM #
As consumer, we have the right to gain information on product we plan to buy. The same is true with cars. That is what car magazines are for. You want to know what is the best product today and to get curious of what is coming in the future. That is why we are using palminfocenter even though it is mostly rumor. Rumor and information is available everywhere on the internet. You are the only that make the buying decision.

RE: ?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/2/2001 12:22:14 AM #
Car magazines usually talk about the models due to be released in the next 6 months, rarely (with certainty) about models that won't go into production till much later next year (except for rumors, just like here...) Next years car models are only a few percent "better", if that, so there isn't a problem that can't be solved by a minor dealer promotion (pay no interest for the first six months of your high interest loan, wow!!). Computers get at least 50% better every year, which renders old inventory about as valuable as a 15 year old Chevy.

Rumors about new m525
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/3/2001 8:43:59 PM #
I think this is total crap. If this is the case. Palm should recall all m505s and make them as brite as new m525s. Is this the punishment for loyal Plam customers, to be fooled by a product like m505. We already spent a small fortune on m505, thinking this is the innovative new screen...I was accepting new SD upgrades such as a wireless modem attachement or a long promised bluetotth deal, or a simple digital camera...

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