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Comments on: Where Are the Large SD Cards?

In October of last year, Matsushita announced that it would soon be releasing 256 MB and 512 MB secure digital (SD) memory cards. The 256 MB version was expected to hit the market on December 21 while the 512 MB one was scheduled to be available January 21 of this year. As yet, there is no sign of these on any of the major web retailers, including the webstore of Matsushita's American subsidiary, Panasonic.
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MMC vs. SD

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 10:42:19 AM #
Does anyone know whether or not MMC cards can increase in storage size as well, or do MMC cards suffer from physical size limitations that inhibit this?

Also, does anyone know of any SD/IO devices in the works, other than the Bluetooth SD card?

Thanks, JBH.

RE: MMC vs. SD
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 11:01:08 AM #
I talked to one company, whose representative told me that they would be releasing a 128 MB MMC, but I haven't seen one yet. If I had to take a guess, they're coming. I have no idea of capacities over 128 MB.

RE: MMC vs. SD
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 5:16:13 PM #
Why do need MMC? I thought it is slower than SD in everything. I guess you want a cheaper medium, right?

RE: MMC vs. SD
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 5:25:36 PM #
Actually, tests have proven MMC having faster reading/writing times than SD. Yes, MMC is cheaper. Also, some people may not need the security features that SD offers...

RE: MMC vs. SD
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 5:30:28 PM #
I thought MMC was supposed to be slower than SD? If MMC is same or faster, why does SD even exist?

RE: MMC vs. SD
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 5:44:01 PM #
> Actually, tests have proven MMC having faster reading/writing times than SD

Could you provide a link to these tests? I've also always heard that SD is faster than MMC and that's my experience as well.

RE: MMC vs. SD
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 6:00:57 PM #
My wife and I each have a m505. For X-mas I bought her a 64MB MM chip. I have a 64MB SD chip. Guess what? Her MM chip is twice as fast as mine. We've raced many times.

John

RE: MMC vs. SD
EnocH @ 1/30/2002 6:18:22 PM #
http://www.geocities.com/romidar/mmcvssd.htm

mmc is only significantly slower than sd when copying/transfering files. loading time is practically the same with negligible diference in time.

God Bless,
EnocH

RE: MMC vs. SD
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 7:45:43 PM #
>mmc is only significantly slower than sd when copying/transfering files. loading time is practically the
> same with negligible diference in time.

That may be true for what the guy on Geocities was testing, but to be safe I would pay the premium and go with SD.

It may not be noticable on his Palm, at least with digital cameras it matters.
http://makeashorterlink.com/?O1D962A5

RE: MMC vs. SD
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 8:29:24 PM #
John, could you please post the statistics using VSFMark for 64 SD and 64 MMC if you have the time?

VSFMark can be found here:

http://www.palmgear.com/software/answernew.cfm?quicksearch2=VFSMark

I think this give us good info about Benchmarking SD and MMC cards in Palm.

RE: MMC vs. SD
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 9:14:48 PM #
John, it's me again as above. I think it is very hard to get the benchmark for the 64 SD and 64 MMC since your wife must have few files in her MMC (less used mb in here card) as well as few apps in her m505, I presumed. To do this properly you must have the same apps and db's size the device and same apps & db's both cards. It might explain the faster 64 MMC in your wife m505. Noli

256MB MS coming in Feb...

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 10:47:40 AM #
> lead over the Memory Stick, of which the largest
> currently available is 128 MB

I just got a Sony Digital Camera and the salesman told me to wait on buying a MS from him because the price would be droping in a few weeks (which Ed reported) and Sony would be releasing a 256MB stick in Febuary. He expected to see it for $199. If this is true the Sony would have the head start on the 256MB card.

RE: 256MB MS coming in Feb...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 11:57:26 AM #
It is more important to have
the current card prices down, than have
a large card.

128MB is plenty already. I would like
to know how many are using a 128MB SD card.

I bet it is not that many.

ted

RE: 256MB MS coming in Feb...
markpmc @ 1/30/2002 12:35:18 PM #
I have a 128 MB memory stick for mp3's. But I also have a Clie 710c. Once the larger cards appear how much longer until there's a MS slot in a Sony car stereo....

markpmc

RE: 256MB MS coming in Feb...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 1:54:34 PM #
> how much longer until there's a MS slot in a Sony
> car stereo....


Here you go:
http://shorterlink.com/?IUN7RS

RE: 256MB MS coming in Feb...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 2:34:57 PM #
That audio system can only use MagicGate memory sticks, looks pretty useless.

RE: 256MB MS coming in Feb...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 4:31:07 PM #
I have 64Mb MemoryStick with Clie 770, but I want 256Mb as MP3 take a lot of space! If I could I'd buy couple of Gigs of these (for a reasonable price!)

RE: 256MB MS coming in Feb...
jeremyf @ 1/30/2002 5:46:04 PM #
The Pioneer system sux, it costs something like $2000. =( Anything more than $200 is too expensive =)

Headstart for what?
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 7:20:14 PM #
Head Start for what? So what if MS is first or SD is first? If u get a palm device then you have no choice but to wait. It wont decide on any buying factor.

RE: 256MB MS coming in Feb...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 10:52:15 PM #
"That audio system can only use MagicGate memory sticks, looks pretty useless."

No. It also has a 10GB HDD.

RE: 256MB MS coming in Feb...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/31/2002 12:55:06 AM #
If you want to get more MP3s in your memory stick try using DietMP3, it makes the MP3 size smaller without compromising the sound quality.I use it for my 710C
the trial lets you comress up to 99 songs.It cost $20, but it saved me more than $100 on memory sticks.

http://www.handango.com/PlatformProductDetail.jsp?siteId=1&platformId=1&productType=2&productId=23862§ionId=0&catalog=1

RE: 256MB MS coming in Feb...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/31/2002 12:55:06 AM #
If you want to get more MP3s in your memory stick try using DietMP3, it makes the MP3 size smaller without compromising the sound quality.I use it for my 710C
the trial lets you comress up to 99 songs.It cost $20, but it saved me more than $100 on memory sticks.

See:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?N28C12A5

RE: 256MB MS coming in Feb...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/31/2002 7:56:53 AM #
I have a 128MB SD card. When the 505 was just speculation, I thought 16MB would be more than enough. When it was released I bought it with a 32 MB MMC. After four months I went to 64MB, and a few months ago I upgraded to a 128 MB SD. I just topped 100MB of memory used on my card. I only have one game on it, no mp3's. My Palm is filled with medical references with a slant towards Obstetrics and Gynecology. Skyscape has some wonderful medical references that saves me referencing books in the office. They are all between 3-6 MB. Other texts for i-silo or handheld med reader are up to 5MB. It's easy to eat up memory with books, but the advantage of carrying a small library in my shirtpocket is too great to not have the biggest card available. I'd guess that anybody who regularly uses a body of references would want to keep adding more. Of course, if you dig mp3's the bigger cards make sense. Wouldn't it be cool if your car radio had an SD or CF slot that you could use to play mp3s? Not as cool as XM radio, but still sweet.

tuckermaclain@yahoo.com

question

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 11:14:26 AM #
what is the maximum size card I can put in my m505...is there a limit or can i just put in the largest card available .....what about for the i705...

RE: question
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 12:55:14 PM #
As big as you want.

But why would you need a 128 card on a palm anyways.

RE: question
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 12:59:40 PM #
Can the Palm OS really handle these bigger cards?

I put a 128MB SanDisk SD Card into my Palm m505, and even though McFile and Filez can copy files to/from it, Palm's own built-in Card Info application cannot seem to reformat it!!! I either get a Format Failed message or it just never finishes. I tried this in 3 different m505s too, and read about an other person having this problem as well.

Has any one been able to reformat their 128MB SanDisk SD Card?

SanDisk tech support is very slow in answering their email.

RE: question
volcanopele @ 1/30/2002 1:47:37 PM #
"But why would you need a 128 card on a palm anyways?"

I have a 128 MB SmartMedia card for my Visor Platinum and I have only 15 MB free. I find all sorts of things to use the card for. Pictures, large documents, an unabridged dictionary, and tons of programs and program data. Give a person more memory, and they find ways of using it up and wanting more. I am sure when the 512 MB card comes out, people will find ways of using it up.

Jason

RE: question -
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 2:04:20 PM #
Yes, you can use SD cards with large memory if you get the debug fix from Palm. In fact, this issue was just
brought on a few days ago here at palminfocenter. Read this link. It will help you.

http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=2919

RE: question
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 2:26:18 PM #
I'm using the fix and still cannot format my 128MB card.

RE: question
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 5:14:14 PM #
I can't either.

RE: question
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 5:17:16 PM #
"But why would you need a 128 card on a palm anyways."


dunno... pr0n?

RE: question
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 5:51:20 PM #
> But why would you need a 128 card on a palm anyways.

Yes, why on earth would anyone need more than 640 KB of memory?

RE: question
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 6:17:16 PM #
that is funniest thing I have heard off this forum in forever.. lol

-[]V[]USKRAT

there is already a 256mb sd

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 11:20:47 AM #
sure, there is already a 256 sd, just look at the picture in the article....

RE: there is already a 256mb sd
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 11:36:58 AM #
No, it's 512MB, THAT definitely proves SD has the lead
now.

RE: there is already a 256mb sd
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 1:09:06 PM #
Just look at the 1Gb IBM Microdrive, already sitting in the CompactFlash slot of HandEra a couple of time. You'll see who is leading :-)

RE: there is already a 256mb sd
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 1:53:10 PM #
Or the Sandisk 1GB CF card.

http://www.sandisk.com/consumer/cf_card.asp

RE: there is already a 256mb sd
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 3:43:50 PM #
A 1GB CF card is something like 4 times the size (if not weight too). Not an equal comparison. Comparing MS and SD cards is at least in the same ballpark.

RE: there is already a 256mb sd
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 3:48:23 PM #
Microdrive is a power-sucking monster, it's not good for my PDA..

RE: there is already a 256mb sd
DAK @ 1/30/2002 3:59:42 PM #
SanDisk has announced a 256MB card to be available in the first quarter of 2002. Expected to sell for approximately $199 USD.

RE: there is already a 256mb sd
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 5:07:02 PM #
My digital camera is at Best Buy for service because the Microdrive went out. These things seemed nice at first, but are useless when you have to be so careful with it. I am hoping that they will replace it with CF...

RE: there is already a 256mb sd
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 5:46:27 PM #
> SanDisk has announced a 256MB card to be available in the first quarter of 2002.
> Expected to sell for approximately $199 USD.

Yes, that's covered in the article. You should read it.

RE: there is already a 256mb sd
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/31/2002 8:11:57 AM #
I use a 128 mb card and have never had any trouble formatting. I use McFile/ PiDirect/ BBVFS as my card management programs. What I did originally which may have allowed me to bypass some OS fault was to take the virgin card and put it into my SD reader. I dragged a copy of my 64 MB card from my desktop into the reader and it was formatted and loaded with all my goodies. I run all my card management programs @ 54 MHz and have never had a problem. Try it before giving up!
tuckermaclain@yahoo.com

What about memory sticks?

rsuplido @ 1/30/2002 11:50:39 AM #
CNet released an article dated June 14, 2001 and it mentions:

"Next year, the company expects to release a 256MB version, followed by 1GB and 2GB versions by 2003. Sony also plans to boost data transfer rates from the current 2.5MB per second to 20MB per second by 2003."

Looks like they are on track.

Source:
http://news.com.com/2100-1040-268460.html

Reggie
http://www.cliesource.com

Word Files on SD cards
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 12:02:13 PM #
I'm considering purchasing an m505 to do some quick proposals on the go. I was wondering if I use the Documents To Go on the palm if I could put them on the SD card then use a SD card reader on my PC to edit and print them. Or do I need to sync them. My concern is that the Palm does not have a "regular" file system.

Thanks for any info,
Tai

RE: What about memory sticks?
GregGaub @ 1/30/2002 12:11:19 PM #
As far as I know, the files would still be PDB files, unreadable by your desktop software. You would have to sync them. Then again, with a card THAT big, you could store the Palm Desktop AND DocsToGo installers and install them on any computer you needed to. hehe. Just bring a USB sync cable with you can go for it.
If you just want to print them, though, you might want to look into the carious IR printing programs. I'm fairly certain the good ones, like PrintBoy, support some of the "Office" applications on the Palm, allowing you to print your reports right from your palm.


RE: What about memory sticks?
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 6:06:55 PM #
I use Docs to Go every day and stored the docs on my SD 64MB card.. at least I used to until my m505 stopped synching..

I've been waiting two weeks for the "replacement" palm. You might want to buy two of them.. have one for a back up.

John
johspr@hotmail.com

Announced DOES NOT = Available

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 12:13:14 PM #
It is a fact of life in the technology world. The difference between companies making these sort of announcements is whether the company can deliver those products on time (according to schedule)

Apple announced the imac and start delivery as promised. Panasonic annouced bigger SDs and did not deliver as promise. Simple as that....

RE: Announced DOES NOT = Available
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 5:21:36 PM #
Yea, I remember back in 1996 when Microsoft announced "ZAW" (Zero Administration Workplace).

Last I checked, each new rev of NT causes more and more administration. Good idea though. :)

RE: Announced DOES NOT = Available
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 10:06:02 PM #
How true!

Buyer beware

Lucky @ 1/30/2002 1:39:14 PM #
What really irritates me is that SanDisk, Iomega and a couple of other companies that make storage products define a megabyte at 1000k instead of 1024k, which is the OFFICIAL size of a megabyte. Unless you read the small print, you may not realize this, so you're rally getting less storage than you might expect. Seems kind of dishonest to me. How can they get away with this legally?

RE: Buyer beware
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 3:17:20 PM #
are you really missing that extra 24k?

RE: Buyer beware
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 3:35:25 PM #
Hey genius, that 24k per megabyte in a 256MB card adds up to 6MB, or in the case of a 512MB card, 12MB...

RE: Buyer beware
jpfeiffer @ 1/30/2002 3:36:53 PM #
Lucky, you've got it backwards.

The term megabyte refers, when used correctly, to 1 million (10^6) bytes, though since the dawn of computers its been used to refer to 2^20 (1048576) bytes (the nearest power of 2 to a million being 2^20).

The correct prefix for 2^20 is mebi (mega is the prefix for 10^6), so the correct term for 2^20 bytes is a mebibyte.

So you're actually getting MORE than promised when you get a 16 megabyte card. Almost 5% more.

(Yeah, yeah, of course I feel like a huge dork for actually taking the time to answer this question, but the love of trivia can do that to a person.)

RE: Buyer beware
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 3:37:00 PM #
1024 bytes in a kilobyte * 1024 kilobytes in a megabyte = 1048576 * 256MB = 268435456
1024 bytes in a kilobyte * 1000 kilobytes in a megabyes = 1024000 * 256MB = 262144000, a 6MB difference.
1000 bytes in a kilobyte * 1000 kilobytes in a megabyte = 1000000 * 256MB = 256000000, about 11.8MB difference. (This is how Kingston does it).

You pay for 256MB and get really only about 244MB. Always felt it was dishonest, but everyone does it (even hard drive manufacturers, and that's much larger "missing" storage). And they can get away with it because they say "up to xxx MB", implicitly blaming your chosen file system.

Missing K
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 3:37:09 PM #
Well, it's not insignificant:

24k * 128 mgs = 3072K missing = 3 Real(1024k) Megs
* 256 mgs = 6144K missing = 6 Real Megs
* 512 mgs = 12288K missing = 12 Real Megs


RE: Buyer beware
mikecane @ 1/30/2002 5:33:04 PM #
And what will the block sizes of these larger cards be?! I have 16MB MStick that can be filled with just *2.5MB* of data -- because each file (90% are sub-1K) gets their own spacious 16K block!!

Anybody think these larger cards might go to 32K blocks?

RE: Buyer beware
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 6:24:10 PM #
Way over my head, lol

-[]V[]USKRAT

RE: Buyer beware
popko @ 1/30/2002 6:36:36 PM #
"And what will the block sizes of these larger cards be?! I have 16MB MStick that can be filled with just *2.5MB* of data -- because each file (90% are sub-1K) gets their own spacious 16K block!!

Anybody think these larger cards might go to 32K blocks?"

As far as I know, Sony Memory Sticks of up to 128MB are using a 12bit FAT system. That might change when they move to 256MB and bigger sizes.

RE: Buyer beware
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 8:24:17 PM #
Yep, that is a big problem with all flashcards. Ok, it's not in the card itself, but in the filesystem.
Since they borrowed the FAT12 system from PC, blocksize is huge on the bg cards. However, I think that FAT16 is used now.
This is also limiting the maximum size of the card to 2 GB...

And then we have the physical block/sector-size on the flash-chip, but thatone is smaller then the clustersize of the FAT-system.

Unless you use FAT32, but you can't..

RE: Buyer beware
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/31/2002 2:16:00 AM #
This misconception about kilobytes applies to pretty much every tupe of storage medium. It happens with hard disks, CDR's CDRW's. As long as its a standard "lie" then i guess it really doesnt matter. Besides, labels on these storage mediums are really just labels, not indicators of its capacity.

256MB SD is already out in Japan

Haj @ 1/31/2002 12:15:46 AM #
so I read, there is someone who bought it from a retail store and using it. It doesn't seem to be widely available yet.

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