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Comments on: Sony to Announce New Handheld in Japan Next Week

Update: The rumors included in this article have turned out to be true and Sony has announced the PEG-NR70 and PEG-NR70V. Read more about them here.

Sony will introduce a new member of its Clié line of handhelds in Japan on Monday, according to PC World. The article, which referenced Sony spokesperson Mina Naito as its source, has absolutely no details about the new model, only saying that the company will hold a press conference to show it off.

Fortunately, this is not the only source of information. According to an anonymous source, Sony will introduce not one but two handhelds on Monday.

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nice

Fzara2000 @ 3/7/2002 4:51:58 PM #
I wonder what the heck, different size means...how much bigger they gonna make it? till its smaller than a laptop, but won't fit in my pocket?

SONY ROCKS!

RE: nice
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/7/2002 4:58:33 PM #
Maybe they mean smaller, not larger. Like a Sony replacement for the REX... Or, how about a Memory Stick with an onboard PDA? :-)

RE: nice
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/7/2002 4:59:52 PM #
" nice
Posted by: Fzara2000 @ 3/7/2002 4:51:58 PM

I wonder what the heck, different size means...how much bigger they gonna make it? till its smaller than a laptop, but won't fit in my pocket?"

Mr Fzara2000 if you want to be a Troll, please be a Anonymous one. Different screen size could mean anything, smaller bigger, even different dimension.

RE: nice
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/7/2002 5:08:41 PM #
What about that flip around, swivel type screen that we saw pictures of several weeks back? Could it be something along those lines you think?

RE: nice
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/7/2002 5:10:57 PM #
anything is possible but the possibility is less than 1%. Also don't get your hopes too high. Different screen size could mean a virtual graffiti area.

RE: nice
SaxonMan @ 3/7/2002 5:21:19 PM #
yup i think it could be virtual grafitti

regards,
SaxonMan
Moderator-Handspring
--------------------------------------
may the holy palmostles be with you
http://www.modchip24.com/?PID5061
RE: nice
Edward @ 3/7/2002 6:00:45 PM #
I hoped (and predicted) that Sony would have a Super VZ (66mhz) device out by last christmas. Not so, but I imagine these could be SuperVZ based. The SuperVZ is also quite integrated with a built in MS controller I seem to recall.

A 66Mhz CPU would also be able to up the video quality (due to higher compression rates) available on the Clie. At the moment G-Movie underperforms compared to Teal Movie on quality and file size. I doubt that we will see virtual graffiti ... unless Sony is taking video seriously and included a Mpeg decoder chip in the unit (as they did with mp3), and the larger screen is only utilised by its output. That certainly tallys with Sonys track record, in fact I would put a small bet on them doing this. It would certainly make my day.

We should at least see a device that brings together the two audio technologies Sony uses: the MP3 and the sound chip from the T series. It would be great if the integrated a proper mixer so you can listen to system sounds and mp3's without the mp3 breaking pace.

If one is a wireless divice it is likely to be Japan only, but I will still fall off my chair with drool hanging from my lips. Integrated BT would seem logical at least.

Memory, 16Mb minimum is a cert for a high end device, although I'm not sure how PalmOS and the SuperVZ deals with 32Mb or more. What I would really like to see is 3d graphics chips stolen from the PS project ... but that is just a pipe dream!



RE: nice
Fzara2000 @ 3/7/2002 6:06:15 PM #
odds are, Sony won't make a smaller screen. Obviously they know how hard it is to read off of it, and if they're gonna release it to the japanese market, they won't have much luck.

SONY ROCKS!
RE: nice
crustyedgeofinnovation @ 3/7/2002 6:30:26 PM #
Fzara2000, i see you're back for your weekly "crappy comment" update, nothing good to say, as usual, next week put a bit more effort into your post...maybe mention Sony a bit more, or comment about how much your life sucks...

Different Operation System
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/7/2002 6:44:27 PM #
Different screen size probably means the new handheld will running pocketpc2002.

RE: nice
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/7/2002 7:02:52 PM #
"Different screen size probably means the new handheld will running pocketpc2002."

How is it that you found enough time to take one hand off your brick of a ppc and the other off yer willy to type that half baked, dim-witted message?

Alternative
skytraveler @ 3/7/2002 7:41:03 PM #
Is it possible that "different screen size" might mean a different resolution? Just my 2c

The SkyTraveler
RE: nice
Fzara2000 @ 3/7/2002 8:05:52 PM #
possibly...but how much better can you get then 320 X 320?

SONY ROCKS!
RE: nice
ahecht @ 3/7/2002 8:06:28 PM #
I really hope this is virtual grafitti!

RE: nice
Fzara2000 @ 3/7/2002 8:08:46 PM #
me too!!! Palm would die out then!

SONY ROCKS!
RE: nice
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 4:26:55 AM #
Nope, Palm won't die out then.
Because you seem to forget that the models this new gizmo is supposed to replace (?) still aren't available in many countries.

One of the most important reasons - I think - that Palm is selling so much more handhelds than Sony is that their products are at least available worldwide within days of introduction.

Cheers,
Jan

RE: nice
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 5:55:53 AM #
<< me too!!! Palm would die out then!!! >>

Fzara2000:

You need to GET OVER your notion that Palm is somehow going to die as a result of Sony. You were one of the ones saying Palm would die by the end of 2001 as a result of the N series--DIDN'T HAPPEN.

Palm's not going anywhere. Sony is still coming along, but Palm's not going anywhere.

This is the beauty of capitalism. Although competition breeds winners and losers, economic growth means BOTH win. If their competing for pieces of pie, then one gets a bigger piece and the other gets a smaller piece, except that the pie continually gets bigger, meaning even the smaller piece is STILL bigger.

Get a life...

New screen size is very intriging
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 8:31:03 AM #
This rumour that the models will have a new screen size is very interesting coming in the light of the flip 'n fold PDA concept Sony showcased recently.

"New screen" size could mean so many things. It could mean the products will have re-sized 320X320. Though unless they are going for a really really small device I can't see the point of shring the screens the Clie series use. And by the same token, with form factor being important, I can see them increasing the screen dimensions.

I believe and hope that Sony intends to introduce soft grafitti. While its conceivable they could follow Handera's lead and produce a 160X240 screen, this would represent a drop in resolution. I am speculating that the device could have 320x480 screen. This isn't beyond their capabilities. Years ago they introduce the TR 55 camcorder, which was about half the volume of anything seen previously.

Of course its very easy sitting here as the arm chair pundit and speculating but imagine the flip 'n fold device running at 66mhz, built in BT, thumboard, digital audio. camera?

I would certainly be tempted to shell out for it.



RE: nice
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 10:17:47 AM #
Or has the "different screensize" something to to with the new Sony-ericsson p800 smartphone with the new Symbian OS 7.0??????

Forbes on Palm and Bluetooth
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 11:25:07 AM #
Forbes on Palm and Bluetooth
http://biz.yahoo.com/fo/020308/0308tentech_1.html

"A year ago, Bluetooth was a technology that was the butt of more jokes than anything else." To who? To those who didn't/don't sh@t about technology maybe. Why are these people not reading/doing there own research? Instead of talking BS on something they don't know nothing about. Yep, am indeed a little bit p.o

Why Bluetooth?

-Low power: No battery-sapping (like 802.11)
-Robust wireless connection method with a small footprint that makes it very well suited for millions of handheld devices
(A Bluetooth chip, designed to communicate in the 10m range, consumes only 1mW of power, compared to an 802.11b chip, which consumes more than 1W. A single Bluetooth chipset is also fairly small, with a size of 8x8mm, compared to the smallest 802.11b at 30x14mm.)
-Chips will be cheap (when volume kicks in)
-Bluetooth does not need a base radio station because every device can create a local network.
-Another advantage of Bluetooth as a cable replacement technology are the applications (e.g http://www.bluetags.com ). Retail kiosks, pay phones, and other public access points will support proximity services.
-Bluetooth also holds an advantage concerning voice communication. Here, Bluetooth can be used in a cordless phone within a 10m range, in an office environment or home, without the need for handoffs. Other WLAN technologies need voice-over-IP to support voice communication, which is not likely to happen soon.

Even with the recent delays, the progression of the Bluetooth standard is far ahead of the adoption rates of almost any other comparable technology. Many point to the sudden emergence of 802.11b as proof that Bluetooth has already been superseded by more advanced technologies. However, the truth is that the road towards 802.11b's success began over a decade ago in 1990 when the IEEE 802 Executive Committee established the 802.11 Working Group to create a wireless local area network (WLAN) standard. The b variant simply represents the emergence of a version of the standard that is a viable mass-market commercial solution. In comparison, Ericsson first began toying with the idea of a short-range wireless technology in 1994, four years after work on 802.11 began.

Furthermore, although the inspiration for Bluetooth occurred in 1994, real work on the technology as an industry standard did not start until the original Special Interest Group was formed in 1998. The 1.0 specification was released a mere two years ago in July 1999.

Another issue that was discussed in part 1 of this report is that of interference in the ISM band where Bluetooth operates. Many are under the impression that interference from everything from microwaves to other wireless technologies will make communication virtually impossible. The truth of the matter is that the combination of Bluetooth's frequency hopping algorithms and error correction schemes will minimize most interference problems. Studies have shown that the only time significant conflict occurs is when two technologies are placed in very close proximity.

The phony conflict
IEEE 802.11 and Bluetooth wireless technology
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/wireless/library/wi-phone/


RE: nice
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 11:50:58 AM #
"(A Bluetooth chip, designed to communicate in the 10m range, consumes only 1mW of power, compared to an 802.11b chip, which consumes more than 1W."

More than 1W? I think you got a little carried away in making your point. While I'm sure some cards consume that much, it's not fair to generalize. That's the specs maximum output. The *typical* it 100-500mW.

My Symbol 802.11b card consumes about 50mA at 3.3 volts (in line with the write current of a CF memory card) in maximum power saving mode, and 165mA in full power mode. So that's between 1/15th of a watt and half a watt.

RE: nice
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/9/2002 3:26:33 AM #
"I think you got a little carried away in making your point" What about his other points? He has some great valid points. Thanx for the informative post anonymous.


RE: nice
Bartman007 @ 3/9/2002 12:24:30 PM #
To correct an earlier post. The Handera has a 320x240 rez. Not a 160x240

RE: nice
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 12:23:03 AM #
The new models T425 and T625 have been announced on Sony - Germany web site.

Just call me Russell Grant
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 4:04:40 AM #
"Of course its very easy sitting here as the arm chair pundit and speculating but imagine the flip 'n fold device running at 66mhz, built in BT, thumboard, digital audio. camera?"


Bloody hell, I was bang on the money!... except teh Bluetooth, but hey the MS BT device is out so.....

Finally, a Clié that makes me *not* think about a Palm.
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 1:05:02 AM #
Now *this* is one interesting Sony product. I like everything I see, except for the MP3 player. There just isn't enough memory to make it worthwhile for me. (I've got an iPod for MP3s.) And the video is intriguing, but no thanks.

But the screen size and memory are right on. (I don't think I'll bother with Memory Sticks.) The GPS module is trés cool!

And Sony has fixed the buttons!

How much more than the Japan prices will this cost us in the U.S.?



Now everyone can eat their words

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/7/2002 4:58:45 PM #
To everyone who keeps saying that things won't be done, can't be done, and that eveything they see are mockups, you can all sit back and relax and let Sony impress and amaze us.

Let us all be glad that competition is such that companies like Sony feel obligated to release new models on a bi-monthly basis.

I've got an N760C, and I'm just itching to get an even better Clie... let's wait and see what's coming out.

RE: Now everyone can eat their words
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/7/2002 7:55:07 PM #
Agree , thoose people now will understand anything could be possible . SONY always surprise them .

RE: Now everyone can eat their words
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 2:28:34 AM #
"... anything could be possible ..."

Who knows? Maybe another 'paperwhite' monochrome screen like on the T415. If you have no morals about lying to customers, then maybe anything is possible.

RE: Now everyone can eat their words
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 2:46:55 AM #
LoL after seeing the "un-discontinue" new of the Visor because of "popular demand" I also believe everything is possible too.

RE: Now everyone can eat their words
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 4:34:20 AM #
hehe...

After much research and unlimited funding Sony has succeeded where no man has gone before...
From monday onwards it will be possible for a limited period to order your copy of the original Pilot, re-created by Sony!
Just kidding.

Dear mr. Sony,

On monday I will read PIC and see yet another pda that wont't be available outside the US and Japan.
Screw you.

Cheers,
Jan

RE: Now everyone can eat their words
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 4:55:43 AM #
Usually most part of asia will have it one or 2 weeks after it's avaliable in Japan.

IT'S NOT NEW PALMS, IT'S NEW PHONES!!!!!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 1:22:20 PM #
IT'S NOT NEW PALMS, IT'S NEW PHONES!!!!!!!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 1:07:35 PM

PLEASE LOOK AT THIS WESITE
http://www.sonyericsson.com/cebit/

Sorry folkes,
(Wah Wah)

Just thought you might like to know!

RE: Now everyone can eat their words
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/10/2002 1:21:57 PM #
Ah..yeah - sony makes Symbian smartphones with Ericson - this isn't news. Ed didn't mix thgis up - they are ALSO releasing new Palm devices.

It's new Palms *and* new phones.
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 1:18:47 AM #
The two higher end Sony/Ericsson efforts look very nice.

I can't wait so see more on them.

I just hope that they *don't* go with Sprint, or Sprint alone. They have the worst coverage in my area. (When it's good it's fantastic, but usually, it's pretty poor.)

Cingular just put up a new antenna near me, and Verizon gives great coverage, although the signal sometimes a little noisey.

Either of those phones will compliment the new Clié rather nicely.

DA.BOMB.SONY.COM

sandbuck @ 3/7/2002 5:30:06 PM #
I know there are a lot of fierce Palm loyalists on this board. I own a 505 myself. But you can't deny that SONY is the best thing to happen to Palm OS computing. Who remembers how long it took us to go from the Palm Pro to Palm IIIxe? Sony has 86'd more designs that Palm has brought to market.

I give even odds that model 1 is the T7xx and model 2 is the Sony flipper w/ camera!

Here are some other probabilities:
-------------------------------------
10 or more posts whining that there 3 mo old Sony is obsoloete: -- 2:1

one or more post that starts out "WHATEVER" -- 3:1

two or more posts from a PPC troll that can't deal -- 1:2


RE: DA.BOMB.SONY.COM
Moosecat @ 3/7/2002 5:41:56 PM #
Whatever. My three-month old Sony is obsolete, and that's why I'm switching to PocketPC.

RE: DA.BOMB.SONY.COM
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/7/2002 5:44:18 PM #
Moosecat good job you combined all 3 whinnings in one shot :) pretty good use of connecting words too, A+

RE: DA.BOMB.SONY.COM
sandbuck @ 3/7/2002 5:45:13 PM #
I should move to Vegas

RE: DA.BOMB.SONY.COM
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/7/2002 5:58:45 PM #
Aww poor Moosecat wont have the latest toy to show off with anymore.
Jeez you old clie will still be doing all the things you bought it for
or
are you thinking the new model will be the same price as your old model and do more?

RE: DA.BOMB.SONY.COM
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/7/2002 6:21:25 PM #
Whatever! :)

RE: DA.BOMB.SONY.COM
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/7/2002 8:13:10 PM #
Those Palm loyalists should understand one thing-- SONY dose save Palm's ass or it will be annihilated by Microsoft now.

RE: DA.BOMB.SONY.COM
Brucew @ 3/7/2002 9:31:20 PM #
Moosecat, well.I think Sony had broke the 'rules' of PDA market, while Palm,Handspring and PocketPC always release new model(s) at March(Since 1998,Palm alwasy release the new/highend/flagship model in March every year),which means they release the new models once a year.(or twice,they release the low end at Sep/Oct).

I have just replaced my Vx recently.It was released at March 2000, and it was just put up to the Hall of Fame.
I agree with another person, The handheld you are using not is not obsolete after 3 months.I used PalmIII since 1998 and I dont really think there is a major difference in the OS from 3.0 - 3.5.It took Palm many years to upgrade to 4.0.From my point, I think your 3 months old CLIE is sitll one of the upper end in the handheld market.It will not be obsolete until the OS5 or OS 6 release.

and for now, I believe your CLIE can do what you want it does for you, the newwer model is just slimmer and more memory only. :-)

RE: DA.BOMB.SONY.COM
Moosecat @ 3/8/2002 12:13:16 AM #
I guess sarcasm doesn't across well on message boards. I don't even have a Sony ... I was just trying to hit the trifecta of classic gripes.

RE: DA.BOMB.SONY.COM
mikeliu @ 3/8/2002 4:53:39 AM #
Heh, I don't think it's so much that sarcasm is hard to convey on the Internet Moose. It's more like a lot of the readers on this board just seem chronically sarcasm impaired. It is hard to convey sarcasm on the net but I haven't seen any group of people have such a hard time with it as here on PIC hehe..........

Seems like we can't go a single article without some zealout for something or the other jump all over somebody who actually agrees with them and just had his tongue in cheek.

RE: DA.BOMB.SONY.COM
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 6:02:34 AM #
<< Sony has 86'd more designs that Palm has brought to market. >>

This is because Sony is a MUCH larger company than Palm, with more cash, which means more money for R&D.

Perhaps Palm, when it licensed the OS to Sony, had figured all along, "We need faster innovation - let's get a giant like Sony on board." But then, that would contradict the beliefs of the idiots who post here that Sony is somehow staffed by god-like, super-intelligent beings while Palm is staffed exclusively by neanderthals. And we can't POSSIBLY do anything to quell your ignorance, can we?

Ignorance isn't bliss, it's dangerous and just plain annoying. But if you prefer it, then go wallow...

RE: DA.BOMB.SONY.COM
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 6:08:44 AM #
"But then, that would contradict the beliefs of the idiots who post here that Sony is somehow staffed by god-like, super-intelligent beings while Palm is staffed exclusively by neanderthals."

Innovating is nothing "God-like", it is something a company should do. If a company doesnt innovate other than releasing a new product with little modification (e.g. more memory) than that certain company really deserve to go down.

In fact sony not only innovated hardware-wise, they also did alot of work on the software side too, but of course it'll only work on Clie handheld. On the other hand Palm hasn't done anything except releasing minor upgrades or bug fixs for it really aging M5xx and M1xx series. If sony didn't innovate then ppl probably won't know you can actually do some of those stuff on a palm device, and palm probably won't be getting so much critizism.

RE: DA.BOMB.SONY.COM
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 8:57:57 AM #
<< If sony didn't innovate then ppl probably won't know you can actually do some of those stuff on a palm device, and palm probably won't be getting so much critizism. >>

Of course, this TOTALLY ignores the idea that Palm may have licensed Sony because it KNEW Sony could innovate faster than it could. "Know your limitations" is an important business idea. If Palm KNEW it didn't have the $$$ to innovate as fast as Sony, then they bring Sony on board with licensing. So while YOU think Sony is an out-and-out "competitor" against Palm, PALM views them more as a "partner."

Now go wallow in your ignorance, idiot...

RE: DA.BOMB.SONY.COM
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 10:31:12 AM #
Hey, guys, cool yer jets here! Remember PALM ISN'T PALM ANYMORE, it's Palmsource :) So when you go back and look at how they've been planning the separation for some time, and how the hardware division hasn't been sharing everything (notepad) with software, that could be another possible reason Sony was brought on board, simply because Palmsource realized that Palm isn't a very fast hardware developer.


---
This public announcement was brought to you by the goof, with the purty m125, aren't you jealous?

RE: DA.BOMB.SONY.COM
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 10:48:03 AM #
" Of course, this TOTALLY ignores the idea that Palm may have licensed Sony because it KNEW Sony could innovate faster than it could. "Know your limitations" is an important business idea. If Palm KNEW it didn't have the $$$ to innovate as fast as Sony, then they bring Sony on board with licensing. So while YOU think Sony is an out-and-out "competitor" against Palm, PALM views them more as a "partner.""

LOL LOL
You make it sound as if PALM people are very smart..
And then tell me, if they are so smart how come they screwed up the m505 and then release the m515, which is what the m505 should have been from the very beggining.. that's what I call a dumb company, without even market research.. LOL LOL

JK

RE: DA.BOMB.SONY.COM
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 11:02:43 AM #
It stands to reason that the people who licensed to Sony (the OS side of the former Palm) are not the same ones who were responsible for the underwhelming m505 (the hardware side).

To use the blanket phrase "dumb company" oversimplifies the issue, I think.

RE: DA.BOMB.SONY.COM
swinginjonny @ 3/8/2002 2:04:10 PM #
>>You make it sound as if PALM people are very smart..
And then tell me, if they are so smart how come they screwed up the m505 and then release the m515, which is what the m505 should have been from the very beggining.. that's what I call a dumb company, without even market research.. LOL LOL<<

First, I would probably spell check before calling others dumb.
Second, For a "dumb" company, Palm is doing pretty well--they have sure sold a lot of those "crappy" 505's and the 515 is selling pretty well too. Neither took the "Handheld Geek" world by storm but as far as the standard consumer, I talk to them every day, and most of them love their m505.

RE: DA.BOMB.SONY.COM
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 2:41:31 PM #
"First, I would probably spell check before calling others dumb."

No spelling error only means you got a better spell cehck does that mean you are not dumb ? no. writing with alot of spelling error also doesn't make you a dumb person.

"Second, For a "dumb" company, Palm is doing pretty well--they have sure sold a lot of those "crappy" 505's and the 515 is selling pretty well too. Neither took the "Handheld Geek" world by storm but as far as the standard consumer, I talk to them every day, and most of them love their m505."

OK I get the meaning already everybody loves M505, even clie owner hate their own PDA but they still love M505, is that good for you ??

RE: DA.BOMB.SONY.COM
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 1:25:34 AM #
<>

Like that's a *good* thing.

While it's interesting to see these new Sonys, why is it that so many Sony fans feel the need to come to this site and act like thirteen year-olds? (Yes, I've seen a few Palm zelots behave poorly, too.)

It's hard to believe that these comments come from adults.

This site has a lot of great information (Thanks Ed!) but it has the highest amount of trolls and churls I've ever seen a forum.

It really needs a Draconian moderator. Adults should have some place to discuss technology products in a civilized manner.

I'm getting a m515. When the PEG-NR70 ships here in the U.S., I'll definately give it a close look.

ooh. a QVGA screen like a handera 330.

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/7/2002 5:58:10 PM #
then us handera using lepers would get some more support!

hey, i can dream cant i?

RE: ooh. a QVGA screen like a handera 330.
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/7/2002 6:04:21 PM #
Support from us, but not SONY. HandEra's cust, support is probably better.

RE: ooh. a QVGA screen like a handera 330.
rldunn @ 3/7/2002 6:07:11 PM #
No, you'll still be lepers since if Sony ever does go to virtual graffiti, it will be a higher resolution like 320x400, not something with less resolution than the current 320x320. Of course, I have no facts to back this up, but I just can't imagine Sony doing that.

RE: ooh. a QVGA screen like a handera 330.
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/7/2002 8:05:10 PM #
With the two Yahoo Groups (Clie_Users_Grou, nXt_Clie_Club), ClieSource, PDABuzz, PalmInfocenter, Brighthand, etc., who need's Sony's support?!?

RE: ooh. a QVGA screen like a handera 330.
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/7/2002 9:44:58 PM #
err. by support i kinda meant application support. like applications written that can take advantage of the extra screen real estate.

RE: ooh. a QVGA screen like a handera 330.
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/7/2002 10:55:15 PM #
What hi-res app are you looking for anyway? There might be one out already.

RE: ooh. a QVGA screen like a handera 330.
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 2:03:29 PM #
Yikes! There's almost 10,000 CLIE owners here -

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CLIE_Users_Group/


Does Sony know about this group?

Give me. Give me....

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/7/2002 6:41:08 PM #
Can't wait to upgrade my N760C

RE: Give me. Give me....
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 6:08:10 AM #
Why? Is it somehow LESS useful than it was before? Does the screen look worse? mp3s stop playing?

Oh, wait, you're one of those geeks who needs the latest gadget on your belt to compensate for a tiny johnson inside your pants.

Seriously, it's one thing to be enthused about this stuff and follow it; it's another to react like some spoiled child whenever a new model is RUMORED.

You're a very creepy individual...

RE: Give me. Give me....
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 7:54:51 AM #
Wow, you seem real angry about this guy wanting to upgrade from his n760.

Me, I love my n610c, but I would kill for either integrated Bluetooth and a dust-free screen. If I have to buy a new PDA, you bet I'd upgrade.

Nobody "Needs" a PDA. It's a luxury item. People could easily use their paper-based daily planners. Why criticize someone for thinking their n760c is no longer useful?

You've already admitted that your pen and paper are no longer useful by buying a PDA. Should you be criticized for that?

RE: Give me. Give me....
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 9:01:13 AM #
I think the reaction to the original post here was less-related to the thought of upgrading than to the childish "Give me, Give me" subject.

And yes, it DOES seem a little creepy, as many internet posters do.

RE: Give me. Give me....
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 9:27:48 AM #
Or it's a little joke. Another common trait among Internet posters is their inability to recognize humor.

RE: Give me. Give me....
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 1:04:02 PM #
People here tends to be angry if some else posted comments that doesn't go well with them. Hey! relax man! we are here to read up the and to share our opinions not to screw each other with nasty comments.

RE: Give me. Give me....
Bartman007 @ 3/9/2002 12:32:00 PM #
If the original post wants to upgrade, big f***in deal. If he has the money more power to him. Now, I have the same device and think it works fine, even thought I am thinking about going to the T615, that is besides the point. If he wants to spend his money why are you so pissed at him?

Crouching Palm, Hidden Sony

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/7/2002 8:38:43 PM #
Do you know who will be the real master at Palm?
------------------------------------------------

I guess one cannot compare a giant like Sony with its deep pockets and vast resource to a puny Palm. But, am I glad whomever he/she was who decided to license to Sony did the best thing for the PalmOS. Can you imagine what it would have been like for the PalmOS if Palm kept everything to themselves? What? Get a dud like their "new" m515? Microsoft would have eaten them for snacks by now.

When you fight a gorilla like Microsoft you need another gorilla like Sony. Palm for all its "zen" and "Mac-like cult" would have been left alone to contemplate it slow spiral to oblivion if not for Sony. So, for all those Sony-bashers out there, your Palm/Handera/Kyocera/Handspring would have had all its virtues but when faced in the valley of death, your shadow will run and hide everytime a PocketPC user wields his stylus if it was not for Sony flashing its badge.

If I were Palm, I'll say get out of the hardware side. Obviously they don't have the chops. If the m515 is their flagship (besides i705) they can't even come close to the Clie's. And when you have Sony innovating every 3 months and not 10 months as in Palm, every year longer they stay in this business they are 3 times more likely to be behind Sony.

And what about the i705? Well, as it only works in North America, it isn't a global product. Even if they are selling well now, RIM's latest Blackberry is gonna eat it for lunch. Then there's the Treo. And the Symbian-powered stuff coming soon. And Danger's HipTop...

The real master of Palm hardware is now Sony - whether or not you like their silly buttons on the T-series. Because, if Sony wasn't there we all will be using PocketPC's by now.

Palm should stop wasting time coming out with goofy products like the m-Series and focus all their limited resource and effort on the PalmOS and make darn sure things like the software and even hardware connectors are universal so that when we buy a Palm device, we don't have to worry about usability. That's the zen they should be focusing on - not if the color screen is marginally better than the previous.

Microsoft will only keep coming back with better and better iterations to their OS and whatever lead Palm has with its 12,000 programs is only a matter of time before PocketPC catches up. And as technology goes, PocketPC hardware will get smaller, better and cheaper. That curve will hit Palm's soon and if Moore's law is anything to go by Palm probably has about 18 months more to get their act together.

Why? When PPC 2002 launched that trajectory started upwards. As much as I love PalmOS, I am equally impressed on the leap made by PPC 2002 and market data shows that this assumption is correct. On the hardware side, have you seen the iPaq?

If I were Palm's CEO (and maybe he is doing this as we speak), he should cozy up with Sony and make sure he is feathering their nest. Don't forget Sony through SonyEricsson have SymbianOS devices too and they can leave PalmOS to eat dust if they decide to stick to them only.

Palm and Palm-users alike should embrace Sony because without them, let's face it, Palm will be posturing at the altar of Microsoft. All Palm has right now is their piece of paper license marriage certificate to Sony. Let's all hope Palm has a good pre-nup.


RE: Crouching Palm, Hidden Sony
Brucew @ 3/7/2002 9:49:25 PM #
hi.I agree some of the words you said.
sigh...yap.that is true.Palm has became a follower but not a leader since Handpsring.but I dont really think they should focus on OS.the best enginner of Palm have formd the Handspring alrady.Handspring and Sony have been adding new technology to the Palm OS, while the only reasons I will buy Palm now is:

1.I like the SD/MMC over the MS and SB
2.Palm is "Original" (Palm hardware, Palm Software)
3.Slim form Factor design(but I think the Clie T-series is better now, the Palm V form factor is a bit outdated to me..)

I dont know what the CEO of Palm is doing now.but he should put"Hire some BETTER enginner to the OS "on the top of his to-do-list.I am very interested in m515.but Sony's T615 has a higer resolution screen!!


RE: Crouching Palm, Hidden Sony
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/7/2002 11:37:48 PM #
Your heart is in the right place but your facts are way out of date. Palm has split into two divisions, one that makes hardware (called "Palm") and one that makes the OS (called PalmSource").

Palm doesn't have a permanent CEO at this point. The old one was fired and the company is looking for a replacement.

If Palm stopped selling handhelds, the Palm platform would collapse. Palm outsells Sony 10 to 1. While I agree that Sony's models are technologically superior, for whatever reason Palm has 60% of the U.S. market while Sony has 6%. I don't know if Sony isn't doing its job at advertising or what but that's the way it is. Maybe the roles will be reversed someday but Sony has a long way to go.

Sony also needs to do a better job selling outside of Japan and the U.S. It has done a miserable job moving into large portions of the world.

RE: Crouching Palm, Hidden Sony
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/7/2002 11:52:04 PM #
"Palm has 60% of the U.S. market while Sony has 6%."

Palm has less than 60% more like 55% (something like that.

Anyways Sony has done a good job in moving in to the US market so far, Sony has been selling Palm PDA for a bit more than a year and 6% market isn't bad really. Palm has been selling PDA since like 1995 (I think) If I remember correctly, that's like 5 times the time of Sony, so having 55% or even 60% of market share is nothing surprising.

RE: Crouching Palm, Hidden Sony
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 12:18:25 AM #
Anyone know how I can get a job at Palm's research and development?

Hey, ten months to come up with "Let's put 16 megs of Ram in our newest PDA! and "How about we provide a REAL backlight, and maybe give 'em even THREE settings (off, low, high)???

That should wow 'em!

RE: Crouching Palm, Hidden Sony
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 12:25:32 AM #
I aggree w/ u completely.
Palm V=>Palm Vx=>palm m500=>palm m505=>palm m515
2mb ram=>4mb ram=>sd card=>color sd card=>16mb+sd card

now look at Sony, less then 1 1/2 years of making Palm device: S320 N610 N710c T615 and now a new model coming soon.

two reasons that have kept me with palm instead of Pocket pc:
1. Sony - I did a ton of research, before I got my Sony Clie n710C when it first came out. I tried Palm Vx, Handspring(the color one) and Ipaq etc. I was basically set to buy Ipaq for colored lcd and mp3 capabilities. If Sony did not release N710C I will be a PokcetPC user already.
2. Abundence of software-There are ten times of software for Palm OS compared to PokcetPC. Especially medical(Isilo and Skycape) and datebook software(AN and Datebk)...Although it is not that a big issure now.



RE: Crouching Palm, Hidden Sony
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 12:28:14 AM #
I think we really need to educate the uninformed masses. 8 out of 10 goons standing in the shops are still stuck in the 90s and think Palm is God's gift to calculators!!

When I was buying my T615 in the shop, I heard 2 geeks come in with their 2 inch glasses and saying: "Look! Woah! There's the m505! Wonder if the shopkeeper will let us play with it?" while I had my backlit TFT 320 x 320 display on!!

Jeez. Geeks? Go home and play with your sticks instead.

RE: Crouching Palm, Hidden Sony
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 12:45:15 AM #
I am aware that Palm has split into Palm Inc and PalmSource with Eric Benhamou and David Nagel respectively heading the companies. This is why I am posting this comment and hope that Palm Inc's temporary CEO SHOULD NOT look for a permanent CEO for the hardware company.

While I agree that a large percentage of PalmOS devices bear the Palm logo but for how long more? They are losing market share even within the PalmOS branded devices, let alone PPC 2002 and Symbian OS markets. Yes, there are more Palm licensees and each licensee has several models within its stables thus eating into Palm's own market share but each of these licensees have more than once trumped the licensor at their own game when it comes to hardware. This is my point that I am trying to put across to Palm and readers here.

If you want statistics click this link:

http://news.com.com/2100-1040-827272.html

With limited resources and Microsoft flying like a hawk above, how much more can Palm divert its attention and resource away from building its OS and relationship with clearly much richer and more innovative licensees - big and small?

The convergence of telephony and "organizer-like functions" is evident. Shall I risk saying, even the de facto godfather of the PDA - Jeff Hawkin's Handspring has let up a Freudian slip that they will be going into more telephony-based products. Look at the forthcoming Microsoft's Stinger and Symbian-devices. Nokia's newest products have almost the same functions as would a Palm's. And we know Nokia can buy up a few countries with the funds that they have which Palm doesn't have.

So, instead of designing half-baked hardwares they should design the reference models and software and get their licensees (big and small) to come up with the products. That is the Palm-Economy they have been harping about.

And how is Palm addressing the telephony convergence? Or, are they leaving Handspring to do that? Is Sony working around Palm's multimedia limitations with their own? And if all these happens, will PalmOS itself one day fork over so many paths that what was their zen would come back as tangled mess?

One reader is right that Palm outsells Clies now but don't forget Sony has bigger and deeper distribution channels than Palm. Where you buy your Walkmans and Trinitrons, you can also theoretically buy Clies. And Sony is a global company.

Acer has also licensed PalmOS primarily for the Chinese market with Chinese text input. This is the path Palm should be embarking on. Not color face-plates for their m1xx series or the Schiffer Palms. By the way, did Carl Yankowski had a thing for her? Where did that idea come from?

The trouble now at Palm is they can't decide if they are a hardware or software company. If they want to be relevant as a hardware company, maybe they should hire Jeff as their product consultant or maybe poach the Sony designer for Palm products. Otherwise, stay out of hardware and make damn sure the PalmOS is going to keep up with the challenges ahead and keep the sweetness going with your licensees - and us.

RE: Crouching Palm, Hidden Sony
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 2:15:21 AM #
>"If I were Palm, I'll say get out of the hardware side. Obviously they don't have the chops. "

I think the actual market share is 53% of devices (that includes ALL Symbian, PocketPC and Palm devices). Throwing that kind of money making setup away would be, at best, bad business. They've done the right thing by splitting into two companies (which coincidentally is a nice rebuke to all the people posting messages yesterday about how palm was as bad as msft - Palm VOLUNTARILY split into 2 companies!!ok, ok, obviously they did this for business reasons but i couldn't resist...). The point is, if they can't make it in the hardware side of things then that company can fall while the seperate OS business goes on and maybe (i thinks its possible) continues to grow. As for the guy who said:

> "Palm is "Original" (Palm hardware, Palm Software)

..this is no longer the case - one of the reasons for the company split was to assure licensees that ALL hardware companies would get the same treatment - Palm (hardware) is no longer able to get an 'inside' advantage.


RE: Crouching Palm, Hidden Sony
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 2:15:21 AM #
most people - average people - when i tell them i do software development for handhelds or PDAs, look at me like they don't know what im talking about. Pocket PC - huh? But if i tell them 'Palm Pilot' - then i get the look of recognition. At best 1 in 4 people has a faint clue what i'm talking about when i say 'Ipaq' - they recognize this more then PocketPC!!! face it - we are all geeks here. The funny thing is, saying 'PalmOS device' doesn't register either - even though the company stopped using 'PalmPilot' a few years ago!! So, as new comer (newer then Palm,Handspring,HP,Casio and Compaq) Sony is doinmg really well. Clearly there succes owes much to word-of-mouth since they have rolled out any sort of advertising blitz/campaign to speak of.

RE: Crouching Palm, Hidden Sony
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 2:15:21 AM #
>"since they have rolled out any sort of advertising blitz/campaign to speak of."

i meant - HAVE NOT rolled out any sort of advertising blitz/campaign to speak of:)

RE: Crouching Palm, Hidden Sony
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 2:20:37 AM #
Well, several models in 18 months and yet only 6% of sales (on the most generous interpretation of the numbers). This is something to crow about? I hope the new models do better, but they can hardly do much worse now can they?



RE: Crouching Palm, Hidden Sony
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 2:41:39 AM #
"Well, several models in 18 months and yet only 6% of sales (on the most generous interpretation of the numbers). This is something to crow about? I hope the new models do better, but they can hardly do much worse now can they? "

18 months 6% of market share is pretty damn good I'd say, specially when you are in a market that has a dominated player already.

Well all the sony models are better than any palm Inc. has to offer currently, if you want to put it that way. even the lame T615 is better than the M500, for crying out loud, get out of your reality distortin field and look at the real world.

RE: Crouching Palm, Hidden Sony
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 4:01:17 AM #
Windows CE 1.0 came out in early 1996. After 6 years(!) they've got less than %20 of the market! The biggest of the CE manufacturers (compaq) has 7% after 2 yrs in the biz!! I don't know why people are concerned for Palm (hardware co.) - i care about the OS - and if other licensees can make better hardware, then i dont care if Palm (hardware)goes away. But the OS has to maintain market share before people will have faith that their new purchase will not become obselete. well - with still almost %80 of the market share, PalmOS has a chance thanks to the move to ARM processors. Basically they were battered all of this year while they invested development into OS 5.0 - knowing that this is the companies chance to survive/compete with sexy multia-media pocketPCs. I think that they might pull this off - especially since they only lost around %10 during this 'dormant' period of OS 5.0 development - is good. Now, OS 5.0 developers will push this OS to equal and better CE in many ways.

Anyways, Sony will grow in market share and if they stick with the OS they will probably overtake Palm (hardware), which is, ironically, the path to Palm's (in its 'PalmSource' incarnation) survival.

palm hardware is good
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 5:08:52 AM #
it does what it is supposed to. I believe that Palm is getting as much mileage as possible out of the current models and their refinements and that they are putting all of their engineering effort into ARM based PalmOS 5 devices. Palm has limited resources, I don't think that they can spend too much time on new Dragonball devices. Let's discuss this again in 6 months.

I would however like to see a M525 with built in bluetooth and possibly a high resolution screen.Weren't there rumors about such a device? It doesn't make sense to me to use up the only SD-card slot for bluetooth.

RE: Crouching Palm, Hidden Sony
mtg101 @ 3/8/2002 6:09:44 AM #
Yeah - I think Palm are concentrating on getting their PalmOS 5 model ready. Until then I think we'll only see derivitives of current models - possibly an M525 with the 66Mhz processor, 2 SD slots or something - but nothing revolutionary.

Then come the fall, they'll be the first guys out with a PalmOS 5 device - which from memory will be a GPRS connected device with voice capabilities.


Having said that - if Sony would ust release the InfoStick or one of these new ones has builtin BT - that's probably going to be a more exciting device - well to me anyhows...

---
russ@russb.fsnet.co.uk

RE: Crouching Palm, Hidden Sony
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 6:16:06 AM #
I agree with the above post that Palm needed a giant like Sony to back it up, since Palm is a smaller company.

But the assertion that the 3:10 month ratio means every year Palm is 3x behind Sony seems a bit in accurate. Sony's more numerous releases also, with the exception of the N series, appear to have "incremental" upgrades--nothing major.

Now granted, the m515 is another incremental upgrade, but that's because it's mainly to fix the botched m505 series. The REAL upgrades on the Palm side is the m130--that screen in that form factor with expansion AT THAT PRICE is an accomplishment.

What's more, as stated by others, Palm is focusing on OS5 and beyond, and that will change the game somewhat.

Either way, Palm needs Sony, and Sony benefits from Palm's technology. This is why they have a business relationship. Duh. Doesn't ANY of you know ANYTHING about business? Oh, wait...of course not--you're mostly computer geeks WORKING for an entrepreneur, and probably bitching about how much more you know than they do. Then why are you working for them?

RE: Crouching Palm, Hidden Sony
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 6:25:31 AM #
"you're mostly computer geeks WORKING for an entrepreneur, and probably bitching about how much more you know than they do. Then why are you working for them?"

The above poster pretty much proofed why MBA is the worse thing ever happened to man kind. Honestly they are as good as English major students.

RE: Crouching Palm, Hidden Sony
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 6:29:19 AM #
"Either way, Palm needs Sony, and Sony benefits from Palm's technology. This is why they have a business relationship."

You are just stating the obvious, and claims that 99.99% of the ppl don't know what you are talking about .. Oh well, I really don't know who's the idiot here.

RE: Crouching Palm, Hidden Sony
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 7:00:40 AM #
Catching up on the apps side will be no problem. Out of "12,000" apps there must be 5,000 calculator programs and 3,000 list programs (list of movies, list of recipes, etc...) and another 2,000 tetris / bejeweled / tic-tac-toe clones.



RE: Crouching Palm, Hidden Sony
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 7:15:37 AM #
Well, your numbers might be a 'bit' off but overall you are pretty much right on, lots of 'different' applications basically doing the same or similar things. BUT, isn't that what makes the PalmOS a good thing ?

It is called CHOICE!!!

I for one would rather have the choice to choose which program I want instead. This doesn't mean that PPC does not have multiple programs doing the same thing, it is just that you have much better choice for the Palm with the very likely chance that you can actually find similar programs as FREEWARE.



Eric i
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 8:46:08 AM #
I believe there shouldn't be a new CEO for Palm Inc. Eric Benhamou does great, in my opinion. I listened to the 2002 earnings conference call and found his ideas impressive.

cyruski!

RE: Crouching Palm, Hidden Sony
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 8:51:42 AM #
"even the lame T615 is better than the M500, for crying out loud, get out of your reality distortin field and look at the real world."

I think you meant to say that the T415 is better than the m50 and you are dead wrong. The screen on the T415 is almost unusable. It should be selling for $100.

You've got your own version of the reality distortion field. You really like the Clié and somehow think that translates into Sony dominating the handheld market. Go up to someone on the street and ask them if they know what a Clié is. You'll get a blank look. Then ask them if they know Sony makes handhelds. They'll tell you they had no idea. Then ask them if they've heard of Palm, and they'll say yes, of course.

Sony has better screens but Palm has mindshare. It's a lot easier to put a better screen on a handheld, which Palm has said it will do before this fall, than it is to teach a majority of people that your product exists.

Sony's 6% share of the U.S. market isn't bad, but don't forget Handspring had 3 times that much within a year of the release of the Visor. Just putting it in perspective.

I've said this before but Sony's rate of innovation has slowed. The N710C was an amazing breakthrough for a handheld but that was almost a year ago. Since then, Sony hasn't done much. A stronger IR port? Nice but not an important new feature. The company is coasting. Hopefully whatever they announce on Monday won't be just a N760C with more memory and the T series shape.

RE: Crouching Palm, Hidden Sony
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 9:09:55 AM #
<< The above poster pretty much proofed why MBA is the worse thing ever happened to man kind. Honestly they are as good as English major students. >>

Obviously posted by one of the aforementioned computer geeks, and an egotistical, sanctimonious one, at that.

RE: Crouching Palm, Hidden Sony
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 9:11:05 AM #
<< You are just stating the obvious, and claims that 99.99% of the ppl don't know what you are talking about .. Oh well, I really don't know who's the idiot here. >>

Did you see the "Duh" comment after the initial statement? Apparently not.

If you regularly check the Sony vs. Palm discussion on PIC (not just this thread), you'll see arguments about market share differences, innovation differences, yada, yada, yada. The general tenor of these discussions is usually "Sony is going to overtake Palm." When in fact, Sony is NOT INTERESTED in overtaking Palm. Sony wants to develop innovative, powerful products based on the Palm OS. Just because Sony makes music players using CD technology, you don't here that Sony wants to overtake Philips-Magnavox, do you?

Most people who participate in this Sony-Palm B.S. NEED to have the obvious stated (and again, please note the "Duh"), because they clearly don't get it. THERE IS NO SONY-PALM WAR! At least, not outside people's small minds.

So to answer your query about just WHO the idiot is, I suggest you find a mirror...

RE: Crouching Palm, Hidden Sony
AzureGuy @ 3/8/2002 11:01:37 AM #
Alright, THIS computer geek thinks the world would be a lot more rock based today if it weren't for the geeks AND the MBAs. Admit it, MBAs are leaders, and few geeks have been able to break through the programming of their youth. We should all give both groups a pat on the back for bringing us this far, and where they will bring us in the future.

P.S. STOP FLAMING PEOPLE!!!!! It's not polite :) Try a pie instead

* * *
HOW TO GET BLUETOOTH ON A UNSUPPORTED HANDHELD: Take a pair of pliars, place them around the nearest available tooth, pull, paint it blue, glue it to your handheld

RE: Crouching Palm, Hidden Sony
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 11:09:41 AM #
AzureGuy:

I agree with the sentiment regarding the flame wars.

That said, I have to agree with the above post that states that there is no Sony-Palm war. Sadly, too few people who post to PIC understand this. Just look at the title of this thread: "Crouching Palm, Hidden Sony." It implies the fallacious notion that Sony is somehow out to get Palm, which is just flat out false.

Someone said it earlier, and it's true: Ignorance IS dangerous.

RE: Crouching Palm, Hidden Sony
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 11:13:00 AM #
If Sony's handheld market grows, PalmSource grows. If Palm grows, they grow. Palm and Sony are tangled up in a nice Gaia construction (James Lovelock and his Black and White daisies, remember?) so it's really just between Palm and MS. Now, if the PPC would have been such a winner, wouldn't you expect the marketshare to be just a litlle bit higher? Palm should keep an eye on MS regarding their next move. Is the OS becoming more compact, start to worry. If MS goes for even a bigger OS, don't worry since MS will not be not eating in on the Palm market. Palm is for people who are looking for a PDA. They are definitely NOT looking for a small PC in their pocket which does all the things their laptop does and still weighs a ton!

RE: Crouching Palm, Hidden Sony
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 11:24:16 AM #
"The above poster pretty much proofed why MBA is the worse thing ever happened to man kind. Honestly they are as good as English major students."

Why pick on English majors? Is it because you suck at it so much? Seriously, if you want to speak (or write) with authority, be sure your grammar and spelling are in line with the commonly-used guidelines.

For example:
"proofed why MBA" should be "proved why MBA"
"worse thing ever" should be "worst thing ever"

RE: Crouching Palm, Hidden Sony
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 12:26:32 PM #
It just amazes me that people actually have nothing better to do than take the time to respond to some comments (yes, unfortunately, that would include me too in this particular case... can't help it)


RE: Crouching Palm, Hidden Sony
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 1:14:37 PM #
yeah right! now we have an idiot here commenting about himself.

RE: Crouching Palm, Hidden Sony
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 5:23:39 PM #
Many people here are forgetting that Palm is licensign its OS to Sony. Palm and Sony are definitely not enemies. They are business partners.

If it weren't for the Palm OS there would be no Clies, and Palm earns mony for every Clie sold.

Also there are a lot of Sony buffs in this site critizicing Palm. Why when the m505 came out there where so much negative comment about the milky colors.

Now with the Clie T615 and its milky colors and washed out reds I have not heard so much negative comments.

RE: Crouching Palm, Hidden Sony
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 5:55:25 PM #
Maybe because T615 doesn't have Milky color, yes the red is more like bronish red, but look M515 does't have white too, it's more like yellowish white.

Well most ppl are only critizing Palm for not innovating, then those palm supporters starts to jump on Clie saying they change connectors every months, they don't support their PDA, the T415 is a POS, Memory Stick is not standard, Clie has no accessories.

Palm supporters say PIC has too many Sony supporters here, because everytime they open a thread they see someone critizing Palm for not innovating, but that is just the truth of the whole truth. It is not beccuase there's too many sony supporters here.

You say Clie users are critizing palm whenever they got a chancce to, but the truth is no Clie users don't just critize out of no reason. Go search for M505 Motherboard frying problem, there's not one single critize oh how palm engineers are stupid or how palm is going to out of business because it that.

RE: Crouching Palm, Hidden Sony
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 6:48:14 PM #
i totally agree with the above post. I own a visor once, and everyday, i can't get my mind over ipaq or any latest ppc...

i was all set to grab a ppc, and then there is clie, thank god!.. sony does save lots of palm user from switching to ppc....

RE: Crouching Palm, Hidden Sony
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 8:56:54 PM #
>..The screen on the T415 is almost unusable. It should be selling for $100

Well, if T415 is selling for $100 , then your lovely M500 will be $20 + "Buy one get one FREE ".

RE: Crouching Palm, Hidden Sony
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/9/2002 4:06:52 AM #
I was the person who wrote the original post on this topic and I am amazed by the response and even more by the assumptions that was made. It just goes to show how words can be twisted to mean something. It is either that or, because of the nature of the Internet some response may come from countries where English is not their first language and they have taken it out of context.

This forum has seen some really childish "mine is better than yours" war of words when I believe it is our choice to choose freely. Then someone calls us as "geeks". It seems one cannot express their opinions here anymore before someone starts a flame. My suggestion is - if you do not have anything to contribute here, don't! Stay on the bylines until you have something intelligent to say.

First of all, I am NOT advocating any war between Palm and Sony. On the contrary, and if you read carefully I am saying Palm should MAKE SURE they keep Sony and other licensees big and small SWEET. In fact, they should cultivate and encourage Sony to innovate faster and come out with more products since Palm resources are limited compared to Sony.

If the m515 is their weapon against iPaq or Genio, etc. I believe they don't have what it takes. Don't forget, there is also Symbian and looking at the new SonyEricsson P800 it is one helluva device that Palm will have to compete with.

Secondly, I am advocating they SHOULD focus on the software - the OS. That's the weapon they have against PocketPC 2002. Armed with that, get Sony or Handspring hardware to deliver the bomb against the likes of iPaq.

6% marketshare from 2% of previous year is nothing to sneeze at. When you compound that growth versus the compounded decline in Palm's sales you will see that trajectory meeting at some point when Clies will overtake Palms. That is of course, if Sony decides that this business is worth keeping. This is where Palm has to recognize if they don't have the resource or the ability to come out with great hardware, they should be focusing on the OS and encourage Sony to build and yes, get the word out that Sony builds great hardware. Microsoft does that for the iPaq (see ads).

With limited resource - Palm has to decide hardware or software? Their current focus is hardware and that's why the word is not out there that there is a "PalmOS"! They are spending marketing dollars on ads pushing duds like the mSeries when they should be spending money with Sony, Acer, Handspring, et al to market the PalmOS. They should be doing an "Intel Inside" or "Powered by WinXP" kind of program. Let people know how easy it is to use their OS and not how much better the new and improved m515 screen is and yeah, its got 16mb too.

We shall see.

Hmm .. Is this the new Sony PDA?

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 4:26:27 AM #
RE: Hmm .. Is this the new Sony PDA?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 5:08:31 AM #
no

RE: Hmm .. Is this the new Sony PDA?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 5:34:28 AM #
yes

RE: Hmm .. Is this the new Sony PDA?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 5:53:54 AM #
NO, it is sony/ericsson's new phone/PDA device. Not sony

RE: Hmm .. Is this the new Sony PDA?
mtg101 @ 3/8/2002 6:12:57 AM #
Well.. it's Ericsson's device that's been in the building for a couple of years - so not much to do with Sony in terms of development. Sony were probably the ones that made it look cool though :-0

---
russ@russb.fsnet.co.uk
RE: Hmm .. Is this the new Sony PDA?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 9:07:07 AM #
Nope. But it does run Symbian "Quartz". Quartz is the "pen based" version of the Symbian OS.

I'm a "reluctant" Clie 710c user. In other words once someone else can deliver me a PDA that can play mp3's for 6 hours and still have juice left for a full day; I'll seriously consider jumping to a new platform....

Given the "inovation" coming from Sony over the last year perhaps this is a hollow threat. But Sony cannot afford to take anything for granted in this market...

Mark

RE: Hmm .. Is this the new Sony PDA?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 9:08:15 AM #
So what if they introduce two models. This one and one without the "phone" option. More like a regular PDA.

r00t

RE: Hmm .. Is this the new Sony PDA?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 1:19:02 PM #
It is stated that "Sony to Announce New Handheld in Japan Next Week"...it didn't say that it is gonna run on Palm OS.

RE: Hmm .. Is this the new Sony PDA?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 11:15:53 PM #
Just wait til monday!!

RE: Hmm .. Is this the new Sony PDA?
Ed @ 3/9/2002 1:07:44 PM #
The PC World article my article references makes it clear that this will be some kind of Clié handheld. It says, "Sony will take the wraps off a new version of its Clie personal digital assistant on Monday." Also, the anonymous source I talked to said specifically these would be Clié handhelds.

While I suppose you could make the argument that Sony could be expanding its definition of a Clié to non-Palm OS devices, I sincerely doubt it would do so.

I think it is simply that Sony is a huge company and is announcing a lot of new stuff at about the same time.

---
News Editor

And if it was the clie with flip cover?

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 4:24:54 AM #
If it's the case my predictions would be :

-screen : 320*480 virtual graffiti area
-integrated mini camera
-keyboard
-mp3 (and perhaps video???)
-16Meg of ram, cpu :66Mhz VZ

I hope :
-integrated bluetooth
-dsp for video ...

between 500 - 600 dollars?

RE: And if it was the clie with flip cover?
Edward @ 3/8/2002 7:06:05 AM #
Without the flip cover I reckon an integrated DSP that handles MPG and MP3 is a good chance, combined with 320x480 screen (3:2). CPU, Super VZ, Memory, 16 or 32.

RE: And if it was the clie with flip cover?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 9:03:35 AM #
I would like to see a dual stick slot, one for mem sticks and one for 802.11b (if it Sony ever releases it).

Think, if they release the 802.11b stick and you have to remove your mem stick to use it. If you launch most of your proggies from you stick, the Info stick becomes useless...


RE: And if it was the clie with flip cover?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 1:16:24 PM #
This is what happened here when I gonna use the Bluetooth SD Card, I have to transfer the application/program to the Palm to do it...kinda defeat the purpose in a way.

RE: And if it was the clie with flip cover?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 2:42:03 PM #
What would my new sony clie look like...
- I would go for a bigger screen. 320x480 sounds nice.
- Inside information tells me it's gonna be a virtual graphity area,
like the virtual keyboard there is now. Can't specify more, but I count on the guy (who works for a company that works with sony)
- Since I've started using it, I can't think of buying a pda without mp3. Therefor, get me an mp3 player in there!
- How about a tuner? That I can record from to an mp3 format?
- good audio speaker, that can shout my name as an alarm tone.
- I want 32 MB ram, please.
- Can I have a cellphone with it? You already make nice cellphones, and samsung is beating you on that.
- I've noticed that playing video is very slow. Can you do something about it?
- Did I hear a built-in camera??
(plus, can you please do it all with the palmos, and don't move yet to ppc :)

arigato


RE: And if it was the clie with flip cover?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 2:59:35 PM #
1) bigger screen. 320x480 sounds nice.
2) virtual graphity area,
3) virtual keyboard
4) get me an mp3 player in there!
5) a tuner
6) good audio speaker
7) 32 MB ram
8) cellphone with it
9) built in camera?

Isn't that too much stuff in one devce even at the standard of Sony ??

RE: And if it was the clie with flip cover?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 11:34:37 PM #
Gees, quick accurate preditions. Might have been posted by Sony itself?

A low/mid-range model

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 9:55:00 AM #
Everyone here seems to think Sony's going to release the "ultimate" pda on Monday.

What about a good monochrome replacement for the T415? The S360 is practically flying off the shelves right now, I mean, $299 CDN for a Palm PDA with 16mb RAM, MS Slot, Jog Dial... it's a steal.

The T615 just came out, so I don't think another color unit with more features will be announced on monday. It would also be quite a bit more expensive than the T615, making it the most expensive consumer Palm PDA to date.

A nice T415 replacement would be in order, with the same thickness as the T615, frontlit with a WHITE light, with the same monochrome screen, and 16mb ram. My main reason for getting my current n610c was the Hi-Res. I would consider a T415 replacement like I described a definite move up.

RE: A low/mid-range model
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 2:19:15 PM #
how bout a low/mid range color device that will compete with the m130. can you imagine how awsome that would be?

RE: A low/mid-range model
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 2:57:07 PM #
No, no (and another no for the go). The missing information here appears in a previous PIC quicky: the palmos 4 upgrade program for the clie 710 will end exactly when CeBit starts. This is why the new clie seems to replace the 710/760, and not any other model.

RE: A low/mid-range model
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 5:34:51 PM #
did you completly ignore the fact that 2 new handhelds were being released?

RE: A low/mid-range model
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 11:08:29 PM #
Yeah, I kinda ignored it, since the other model will be out much later.

RE: A low/mid-range model
Timothy @ 3/9/2002 8:05:12 PM #
Now, that is a fascinating idea.

I mean the idea of an M130 competitor. And it makes a lot of sense.

I was thinking originally of a T715C that would just be to the N760 what the T615C was to the N610C. Then I thought the other new model would be something like a Z8000 with the clamshell form shown at Palmsource. But it is wayyyyy too soon for anything that radical to be done. Something like that would require all new hardware, retooling, big risk, and a huge selling price, like $500-600. Sony won't do that for OS 4.1. No way.

So, what if they are thinking of the M130. The M130 opened to sales at $250. That is well below the list price. Not to be expected at this early date with no real competition in the $200-300 range. Prisms are already known to be a deadend. Handspring is going to all phone/communicators.

But, what if the sellers know that Sony has a new color model that would be like a color S360? The older case, connectors, etc. might make it cheaper to produce. Could they sell it for a list price of say $250? if it had a trasflective 320 by 320 screen and 16 meg it would sell by the billions. There is room in that case for a bigger rechargable battery so, I would prefer it over the T615C.

But, that is probably what Sony would think, too. And they don't want to eat sales of their own T615C. I expect if there is a new S500 or some such color model it will be 160 by 160. Still, could be a real good value.

2 New devices

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 12:19:10 PM #
Sony will announce 2 new devices with new connectors.

As such, one could say that this would be bad for most Sony owners with add-on peripherals, however, as this particular clientel is already used to this Sony-Only practice, there should be no issue whatsoever to maintain a 6% market share. In fact, the ultra positive attitude of Sony proponents will ensure a bright future for Sony by continuously touting Sony Clie models as THE model to own while ignoring the lack of support by manufacturers in general. The inability to use an add-on bought last week with next week's model is nothing compared to owning the latest of the latest Sony model which allows you to make utter fools of anyone else without one (yes, this IS written in the manual!).

Have fun with these new models.

The PEG-S300...and my two cents.

ColonelKlink @ 3/8/2002 12:17:54 PM #
Have we all forgotten about this Palm V clone?

Sony has had more of a natural evolution than Palm, but it still seems like hurried bug-fixing.

Sony wants to dominate the consumer market, but to do so goes against everything Sony stands for; uniformity and maintaining an industry standard. Sure 320x320 and QVGA is all fine and dandy, as well as MS, but it makes a definate split in the marketplace. Do you go with a standard proven and used by the manufacturer of the OS, or a non-standard implementation? A memory card format that is interchangeable between a wide array of devices, or a format limited to a single manufacturer?

If Sony really wants to be the leader for consumers, they will have to integrate lower-cost, third-party solutions for their products and maintain a standard.

MS, MS duo, N&S series connectors, T series connectors...

Will Sony maintain their S series when they're dropping the popular N series? If so do third-partys make products for both, or neither? Do they go with the new T-series, or will that be replaced by an even thinner format?

At least Palm is going to try and maintain SD/MMC, and Universal Connector, even through the transition to StrongARM. If Handera goes with US as well, it will be interesting to see what happens with Sony accessories.

Do you want to be limited to only those accessories that are put our by the manufacturer for the very current model, or buy a PDA with a wide range of options, options that have had a lot of time to be designed and perfected.

Buy Sony if it does everything you want it to do AT THIS MOMENT. Buy Palm if you want to keep it for quite a while, and have it maintain it's usefulness.

RE: The PEG-S300...and my two cents.
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 1:36:36 PM #
"Buy Palm if you want to keep it for quite a while, and have it maintain it's usefulness."

I don't see how buying a clie will be less useful over time. If the Clie is more useful on the first day I buy it than palm, then why would the usefulness drop over time for clie but not for palm ??
You mean Sony might one day issue a press release and announce that they are dropping Memorystick for Springboard ??
Or may be sony will be changing their connectors ever 3 months as you guy think they did ?

why Bluetooth?

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 12:58:01 PM #
I maybe wrong but Sony's market segment is mainly consumers (vs enterprise). I can understand a phone, or built in digicam (pref >1M pixel), etc...
I think they would just release the bluetooth infostick rather than build that into their units.

I would like to see two slots tho. Maybe a slot with the new Duo.

IT'S NOT NEW PALMS, IT'S NEW PHONES!!!!!!!

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 1:07:35 PM #
PLEASE LOOK AT THIS WESITE
http://www.sonyericsson.com/cebit/

Sorry folkes,
(Wah Wah)


RE: IT'S NOT NEW PALMS, IT'S NEW PHONES!!!!!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 2:09:35 PM #
thank you for your contribution:)
that is not the PDA. It's not even called a PDA, it's aphone with PDA capability

It's you who make mistake not us..
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 3:46:11 PM #
The information you gave is for CeBit in Germany.

What we're talking about here is what will be annouced in "JAPAN".

Totally two different issues!

Sorry folk,
(Wah Wah)

OOOHHHH! I see. A little touchy are we?!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 8:03:51 PM #
Yeah, I guess you NEVER make mistakes, huh!

We will see my hopeful and unrealistically optimistic friend. You mean they can’t announce a release at a German trade show and actually release the units in Japan?
BTW, if they announce a new product in Las Vegas at a trade show will it be available in the rest of the country? Can Sony really release FOUR new units in one week, is that what you mean? Hello, get a grip on reality here bub!

If they do really announce FOUR new units next week I will be happy to eat my hat!


RE: IT'S NOT NEW PALMS, IT'S NEW PHONES!!!!!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 8:16:10 PM #
"We will see my hopeful and unrealistically optimistic friend. You mean they can’t announce a release at a German trade show and actually release the units in Japan?
BTW, if they announce a new product in Las Vegas at a trade show will it be available in the rest of the country? Can Sony really release FOUR new units in one week, is that what you mean? Hello, get a grip on reality here bub!

If they do really announce FOUR new units next week I will be happy to eat my hat!"

Do you have any clue what you are talking about ?? Sony/Ericsson is different from sony. It's basically 2 different companies. sony/ericsson only makes phones related product.

Who said Sony is going to release 4 PDA next week ?? He is just saying the URL the original poster given is not related to possible Sony's new PDA.

BIG mistake for the first poster
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/9/2002 12:35:20 AM #
No matter the device in CeBIT is by SONY or SonyEricsson, that will be a different model as the one which is going to be annouced in Japan next week.

jap model goes to Japan, US model goes to US and Singapore, Germany models goes to Eurpoe, base on the language issue, they will be ABSOLUTELY different things that they annouced in CeBIT and Japan.


Come on, wake up! There's no way that you see the same model in CeBIT and Japan, no matter what language it is!

RE: IT'S NOT NEW PALMS, IT'S NEW PHONES!!!!!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/9/2002 1:16:14 AM #
I hope you hat tastes good

RE: IT'S NOT NEW PALMS, IT'S NEW PHONES!!!!!!!
Ed @ 3/9/2002 12:54:35 PM #
The PC World article my article references makes it clear that this will be some kind of Clié handheld. It says, "Sony will take the wraps off a new version of its Clie personal digital assistant on Monday." Also, the anonymous source I talked to said specifically these would be Clié handhelds.

While I suppose you could make the argument that Sony could be expanding its definition of a Clié to non-Palm OS devices, I sincerely doubt it would do so.

I think it is simply that Sony is a huge company and is announcing a lot of new stuff at about the same time.

---
News Editor

Here it is! T770!!!!

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 2:39:24 PM #
"When Sony MEMORY stick with 256 MByte capacity praises further highlights of the fair on as well as the Clie T 770 than only PDA, whose infrared interface is suitable for the control of television, Hifi plant or garage gate. "

Rough translation:
http://news.zdnet.de/story/0,,t101-s2105410,00.html

Bottom of page!

m0l3

RE: Here it is! T770!!!!
Ed @ 3/8/2002 4:01:39 PM #
Sorry, you are a little behind. Here's more on the T770 story:
www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=3101

Frankly, I'm leaning towards the belief that ZDnet Germany is mistaken about the T770 but we'll see next week.

---
News Editor

Do'oh!

zigzago @ 3/8/2002 5:41:02 PM #
What's everyone going to say on Monday when Sony releases the 615G (green case) and the 615Y (yellow case)?

Too sad, that is something Palm will do, not SONY!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 7:52:13 PM #
Too sad, that is something Palm will do, not SONY!

Especially Palm likes to do this kind of stuff after more than 6 month the product is released.



JUST WAIT TIL MONDAY D****T

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/8/2002 11:24:18 PM #
=)

RE: JUST WAIT TIL MONDAY D****T
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/9/2002 12:28:33 AM #
I AGREE! JUST WAIT AND SEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pity the guys in Palm Inc.
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 12:27:01 AM #
I bet they're crying and ask, "Why everytime we release something, Sony must release something much better in a second?".......

RE: THEY'RE OUT!!!!!!! IT'S THE FLIP SCREEN!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 12:27:49 AM #
Cool
- Virtual Grafitti 320X480
- Dragon Ball VZ 66Mhz
- 1 Meg pixel Camera
- 16MB DRam + 10MB Flash (wonder what that means)
- 8.23CMX13.66cmX1.67cm
- 200gram

RE: THEY'RE OUT!!!!!!! IT'S THE FLIP SCREEN!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 12:27:49 AM #
O my god ... They are cool looking, too bad I don't know the spec :P

The CCD only has 100k pixels
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 12:46:51 AM #
for sure.

Pity the churls...
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 1:34:13 AM #
...who need to use the "superiority" of their chosen PDA for self-esteem.

I like these new Cliés, and the Palm m505/m515. Oddly, I don't hate anybody who has different preferences.

Nor do I believe that Palm is dying, yadda yadda yadda.

I just buy what Iike. Life is too short to make fun of somebody because one believes theirself to be a better person because of the PDA they choose.

RE: THEY'RE OUT!!!!!!! IT'S THE FLIP SCREEN!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 6:42:15 AM #
the new sony clie is extremely cool but it doesn't have the wireless email functionality of the i705 that many people need.

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