Comments on: Microsoft to Put its Muscle Behind Bluetooth

According to Cnet, Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates will announce later today that this company will release numerous products that support the short-range wireless networking standard, Bluetooth. Of particular importance to the handheld world is the update planned for this fall which will add Bluetooth support to Windows XP. The company will also release some peripherals with Bluetooth built in, including keyboards.
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First this story and now this BT stuff. What is M$ strategy

I.M. Anonymous @ 4/18/2002 10:23:11 AM #
www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=3094

So what are they (M$) up to now. Hmm...

RE: First this story and now this BT stuff. What is M$ strategy
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/18/2002 10:29:02 AM #
i think it's for m$ on advantage to push for bluetooth because their own mobile operating system is going to benefit from that as well.
RE: First this story and now this BT stuff. What is M$ strategy
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/18/2002 12:16:55 PM #
As will their desktop business. Most PalmOS devices sync with Windows PCs. The more compatible Windows is the less reason to change.

ActiveBlue

I.M. Anonymous @ 4/18/2002 10:36:23 AM #
Don't forget what happened to Java.

Sun has a good idea. Microsoft licenses it, then Microsoft changes it to muddle the standards. Sun starts a lengthy court battle to stop Microsoft's conduct. Microsoft then refuses to ship its products with Java capability because Java is "inferior," chosing instead to stick with ActiveX and other proprietary solutions.

Hmmmm. Remove "Java" and insert "Bluetooth."

JBH

RE: ActiveBlue
sandbuck @ 4/18/2002 10:52:56 AM #
>> ActiveBlue

HILARIOUS!!

RE: ActiveBlue
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/18/2002 11:11:15 AM #
No way.... they're way too late to the ballgame on this... it's not desktop centric, it's about connecting many different devices.

Good to see MS support. Guess I'm being an optimist - Microsoft's history would certainly support what you're saying...

Just don't think it will happen this time.

RE: ActiveBlue
seansmith @ 4/18/2002 11:37:59 AM #
The only problem with the thinking behind the statement that started this thread is the fact that there are extreme differences between how the "standards" were set up for Java and Bluetooth. Sun created Java, but had really no way to make it an engineering standard (not that they would have anyway, as Sun would then be unable to license it).

Bluetooth is a ratified specification created by the Bluetooth Special Interest Group (of which, Microsoft is a member, with 8 other companies I believe -- which includes Nokia, Ericsson and a few others).

Java was never really released as an open standard. Merely, we were given ways to write code in Java. Microsoft licensed the technology from Sun and then bastardized it. Because Java is completely software based (as someone mentioned earlier), there are no severe interoperability problems. Code changes can be made much easier than hardware changes.

Bluetooth is a much more open specification, and Microsoft would not be able to change the specification without the permission of Bluetooth SIG member companies. If Microsoft started changing Bluetooth, devices would stop working with Microsoft products, and therefore would waste the money that Microsoft is spending on the advances to their OS's to support Bluetooth. Interoperability is the key behind Bluetooth.

Regardless, don't you already think that Microsoft has already had their hand in creating the software requirements for the hardware already (remember that they are part of the Bluetooth SIG)? They don't need to change anything now...

RE: ActiveBlue
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/18/2002 12:07:40 PM #
Well, actually, Microsoft didn't refuse to ship Java with their products because it's "inferior". Whether MS even said that is open to speculation, but the fact is that the settlement MS made with Sun effectively barred them from shipping Java in their products. Oh, sure, you could include Java from 4 years ago, but no current iterations. You can't even download the current versions from WinUpdate. Seems like Sun actually hurt the consumer as much as MS did on this one.

And now I must say that I'm irritated with the originator of this post because you've forced me to actually *DEFEND* Micro$oft! Auuuggghhhh....

RE: ActiveBlue
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/18/2002 12:19:53 PM #
> Java was never really released as an open standard.
> Merely, we were given ways to write code in Java.

I didn't copy all of your post, but your view of how Sun manages Java is very limited. No, Java isn't a completely open standard (few things are), but all of the Java standards go through committees with 3rd party (both company and individual) members for input. To claim that Sun just hands developers Java and says "this is what you get", which is what you seem to be implying, would be a very, very inaccurate statement.

RE: ActiveBlue
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/18/2002 1:13:32 PM #
>>Well, actually, Microsoft didn't refuse to ship Java with their products because it's "inferior". <<

OK, Microsoft could not ship the new JVM with XP because of the ongoing legal battle with Sun. However, the actual basis for the Microsoft defense of its violating its Sun Java license was that the Sun implementation was inferior. Here is a quote from a news article on the subject:

Microsoft hopes to overturn Java ruling

"Hanging in the balance of today's hearing is how much control Sun can exert over Microsoft to make its Java products compatible with competitors. Sun contends that JNI is necessary if Java is to run uniformly throughout the industry. Microsoft, on the other hand, says that JNI is an inferior technology that is not covered by the Java license it signed with Sun in 1995."

http://news.com.com/2100-1001-227605.html

JBH

RE: ActiveBlue
Ed @ 4/18/2002 1:20:19 PM #
Guys, you started in the right place but you've since wandered pretty far off the original topic here. This isn't an article about Microsoft's implementation Java. Let's get back to Bluetooth.

---
News Editor
RE: ActiveBlue
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/18/2002 1:35:50 PM #
No more paranoia, guys :

BT is radio protocol and MS is a software company.

MS has adopted 802.3 (Ethernet) and Ethernet remains unchanged.

RE: ActiveBlue
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/18/2002 2:05:23 PM #
Microsoft is a software company? Where have you been for the last two years? Microsoft is a hell of lot more than software these days... cable and satellite TV, video game consoles, computer peripherals, phones, and major stakes in so many other hardware companies you can't even count 'em.

It's not paranoia if they're really out to get you.

:)

RE: ActiveBlue
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/18/2002 2:53:34 PM #
hey, HTML was an open standard, and look what Microsoft did to it... and I bet the whole .NET thing will dwarf XML and SOAP standards...
RE: ActiveBlue
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/19/2002 2:24:32 AM #
What we really should be talking about here is M$ making a SoftBluetooth that requires less or cheaper hardware as they successfully did with winmodems and are now attempting with Wifi. This softWiFi thing is gonna be trouble!

I doubt it!

I.M. Anonymous @ 4/18/2002 11:34:20 AM #
"Microsoft's support will make it easier for Palm OS users to connect to their Windows PCs. "

I doubt that. Microsoft will come up with some thing like MSBlueTooth, and pollute the standard.

I am a developer - do I make my app work with the MS standard or the original standard? Oh look, a free IPAQ! My decision is made!

RE: I doubt it!
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/18/2002 11:52:37 AM #
Microsoft helped to create the spec, folks. Remember, Palm is not the only company involved in Bluetooth. Ericsson, Sony, Nokia, 3Com, Intel, Toshiba and a few others are involved heavily too.

http://www.bluetooth.com

However, it is only a spec, not a standard. Therefore they could change some things, but it would be pointless. While MS deserves a bit of bashing, it's not really appropriate in this case. Think about it this way: most of the other companies created the hardware requirements for this, Microsoft probably created the software requirements (gee, ya think?). The damage has already been done. Why go and undo all the work you've already done?

RE: I doubt it!
Wollombi @ 4/18/2002 12:12:57 PM #
Besides, it would be a bad time for MS to do something like this.

The other players in BT are pretty much all 600lb gorillas in their fields, giving them ample funding to take MS to task (i.e. yet another lawsuit) should they try anything amiss.

I don't think MS will futz with this one. Both for the reason just stated, and because they stand to benefit from BT also.

Just my $0.02.

_________________
Sean

It is not very comfortable to have the gift of being amused at one's own absurdity.
-Somerset Maugham-

First APPLE, now M$

I.M. Anonymous @ 4/18/2002 2:52:51 PM #
I believe M$ will help with the growth of Bluetooth but not in the way we would like. I think Apple will stick to the standard much better than M$. As previous posts state here, M$ may just change things here and there as they did with Java. The winner will not be the consumer if standards are not set and complied with. Everything should be about choice for us consumers, no matter what platform we choose. USB has been great for all of us, and I hope Bluetooth does the same thing for the wireless world. Let's keep hoping! :)

Microsoft Reveals Bluetooth Desktop Solution

I.M. Anonymous @ 4/18/2002 3:39:47 PM #
Microsoft Reveals World's First Commercially Available Bluetooth Desktop Solution
Commitment to Wireless Technology Is Supported With New Keyboard, Mouse

SEATTLE, April 18 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Today at the Windows® Hardware Engineering Conference (WinHEC) 2002, Microsoft Corp. (Nasdaq: MSFT - news), the leading innovator in desktop peripherals, will unveil the world's first commercially available Bluetooth(TM)-enabled wireless mouse and keyboard solution. Microsoft Chairman and Chief Software Architect Bill Gates will demonstrate the devices during his keynote address, which is scheduled for 9:30 a.m.

The Microsoft® product suite is expected to be available later this year and will include a Bluetooth-enabled keyboard, mouse and transceiver, as well as support for the Windows XP operating system. This desktop solution will highlight the benefits of the Windows-based PC platform, making the latest technology innovations accessible and easy to use.

more
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/020418/sfth013_1.html

RE: Microsoft Reveals Bluetooth Desktop Solution
mrscarey @ 4/19/2002 7:31:59 AM #
This is what I have been looking for instead of low quality infra red or RF combinations except for 2 things.

1. Microsoft will charge heavily for it - witness the cost of and M$ Mouse and non-M$.

2. How long do the batteries last - I use cells at an alarming rate on my Logitech Keyboard & Mouse combo.

Docking station for keyboard and mouse when not in use to charge rechargeable batteries anyone?

mrscarey

palmist and visionary

RE: Microsoft Reveals Bluetooth Desktop Solution
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/22/2002 3:09:21 AM #
MSFT partner Logitech is working on on Bluetooth Products ditto.
http://www.chip.de/news_stories/news_stories_cebit_special_8709052.html
http://www.logitech.com/cf/products/bluetooth_faq.cfm
"Logitech has a long-standing commitment to the development of wireless peripherals for the PC platform and believes that Bluetooth wireless technology is a key factor in the evolution of wireless connectivity,' said David Henry, senior vice president and general manager of Control Devices at Logitech. ``Logitech is continuing our development of Bluetooth capable input devices and expects availability of an initial product next year.'

from Bluetooth Wireless Technology Addresses Desktop Computing Market
Microsoft Corporation outlines integration plans as Bluetooth SIG announces enhancements to include Input Devices for Computing Industry
http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/011211/110421_1.html


Embrace. Adapt. Extend. Control. Dominate. $$$$.

orb2069 @ 4/18/2002 5:45:42 PM #
It's kind of interesting that Microsoft is the first large-scale computer hardware manuf. who's thrown their hat into the ring to start producing BT desktop peripherals... (That I know of...)

People will buy them by the truckload - I mean, Microsoft already makes cordless mice and keyboards, and they sell fairly well - Why not? Heck, the keyboards and mice might come with a free USB capable BT adaptor. If it isen't free it'd probabaly be really cheap, and might even have a built-in hub.

And as any student of computer history can probably point out, the standards are often ad-hoc creations based on what the market has already decided on. Having their hand this deep in the first step of BT onto the desktop is probably a really good idea on their part, for them. I doubt it's going to be good for consumers.

The whole point of Bluetooth is interoperabilty of devices. Let's use the internet as an comparison medium - Not too far of a stretch, I'd think.

Most of the truly interoperable applications are based on long-exsisting standards (FTP, IRC, early HTML) or standards that were dicated from relatively open groups or Open Source initiatives (SSH, Gnutella).

It seems that when a large corporation invents a standard - Even if it's just a reimplementation of a exsisting standard (AIM, MSMessenger, ICQ ex:reinventing Talk), the first thing they want to do is prevent interoperability (ex - MSM vs. AIM, ICQ vs everybody, etc...) - Interoperability prevents their having a monopoly - Why download AIM if you can use your exsisting message client?

The courts don't trust Microsoft. Why should we?

I /am/ the eggman.

input device profile?

I.M. Anonymous @ 4/18/2002 7:51:32 PM #
I don't remember seeing a profile for Bluetooth input devices. Could someone provide a link to that info/spec? Otherwise, won't you have to have a custom driver for any Bluetooth keyboard/mouse. I guess the mouse could behave like a serial mouse and use the serial profile.

I can't wait to grab one of these and start typing on somebody else's computer/PDA.

RE: input device profile?
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/18/2002 10:13:34 PM #
You can not find the spec. because it is not finalized yet (at least sepc. rev 1.0). For a Bluetooth promoters like M$, they can see the spec. rev. 0.6 and above.
More on MSFT Bluetooth approach (HID/IPv6 support)
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/22/2002 3:25:52 AM #
More on MSFT Bluetooth approach (HID/IPv6 support)
http://www.idg.net/crd_idgsearch_2.html?url=www.itworld.com/Net/3464/IDG011212XPbluetooth/" rel=nofollow target="_new">http://www.itworld.com/Net/3464/IDG011212XPbluetooth/
Bluetooth 1.1 Version and Additional Profile Specifications (including the Audio/Video Profile)
http://www.bluetooth.org/specifications.htm

There's a special Bluetooth Special Interest Group's Human Input Devices (HID) Working Group.

Blue Mice
14:15 PM GMT on Jan 02, 2002
[CommVerge]

The Bluetooth Special Interest Group's Human Input Devices (HID) Working Group has released a definition for how Bluetooth wireless technology will enable input devices such as mice and keyboards.

These enhancements are part of the new Human Input Device Profile and are expected to be adopted by the Bluetooth SIG membership. Prototype products using the specification are expected by the middle of the year.

Meanwhile, Microsoft announced plans to provide integrated Bluetooth support for Windows XP next year (2002), including adoption of the Human Input Device profile. And input-device maker Logitech is busy developing Bluetooth-capable input devices.

http://www.anywhereyougo.com/bluetooth/Article.po?id=937209

RE: input device profile?
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/22/2002 3:43:10 AM #
oooooops, this link will work http://www.itworld.com/Net/3464/IDG011212XPbluetooth/

Down with Censorship!

I.M. Anonymous @ 4/19/2002 9:53:45 AM #
Ed, does it really bust your balls so much if people run with the thread and get into a Java-XP-MS discussion? A couple of extra messages on that timely topic likely doesn't hose your server. Take a pill, dude.
RE: Down with Censorship!
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/19/2002 10:06:38 AM #
I'm glad he did. This isn't the Java InfoCenter, it's the PALM InfoCenter. I come here to read and talk about palms. There are tons of better places to talk about Java, go there. If Ed didn't cut people off, there's be people talking about cars, favorite Xbox games and movies and this site would really go to hell.
RE: Down with Censorship!
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/19/2002 10:19:03 AM #
Oh yeah, McFly? This isn't PurseInfocenter either, but the locals losers have a long debate about whether http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=3321 can be used by men. Apparently the ravings of closet homophobes are considered worthy Palm discussion.

Ignore the Wacko
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/19/2002 10:25:29 AM #
I read that thread and I've decided you are a nutcase. There is nothing inappropriate there What's wrong here is you. I'm no longer going to talk to you because you're a few beers short of a six-pack, if you know what I mean. You should sign of your computer and get some help.
RE: Down with Censorship!
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/19/2002 12:22:14 PM #
Hey redneck, why don't you go make love to your sixpack and your rifle (and maybe your sister)? I think the guy had a valid point.

RE: Down with Censorship!
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/19/2002 12:26:18 PM #
Now you have posted a messge pretending to be someone else who thinks the same way you do. Wow, you /are/ a nutcase. Do you have multiple personalities or are you a liar?

Damn, I forgot I said I was done talking to you.

RE: Down with Censorship!
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/19/2002 2:44:10 PM #
Picking on the mentally ill, huh? That's right, we have multiple personalities. We're just rollin' in 'em. Good times!

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