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Comments on: Review: Sony PEG-T665C

Sony has announced the PEG-T665C, a U.S. version of the T650C which it released in Japan earlier this month. This is essentially a T615C with an MP3/ATRAC3 player added. Despite this important new feature, the price for the T665C is the same as the T615C's was when it was announced, $400. In addition, the T665C's has an improved screen compared to the previous model, making it better able to display colors. Sony will begin taking preorders today and the T665C will be in retail stores sometime in July.

News Editor Ed Hardy has a review of this brand new handheld.

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Where?

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 4:30:26 PM #
The only question I have is where can I buy it?
RE: Where?
Ed @ 6/24/2002 5:02:44 PM #
SonyStyle is supposed to begn taking preorders today but I don't think they have started. Their site is running very slowly for me right now.

www.sonystyle.com/vaio/clie/index.shtml

---
News Editor

RE: Where?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 9:06:35 PM #
J&R of NY have it listed for $399.88 Pre-order.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?R31952021

I especially like the silver-color cradle. Also, look for the mini keyboard listed on the right hand side for $49.88.


RE: Where?
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/8/2002 12:50:55 PM #
Buy it at Dell, Best Buy, or CompUSA.
RE: Where?
andrewholler @ 1/18/2003 6:58:00 PM #
What are some of the Canadian stores where this product is sold?

Another Clie??

I.M. Notorious @ 6/24/2002 4:23:03 PM #
What's the point of yet another DragonBall, PalmOS 4.1 Clie? Ok, one could argue that it has better screen than T615c and MP3 playing in the same form factor (but not NR70's virtual graffiti). Those in the know are going to wait to see the new ARMed Clie (or Palm), and not waste their money in a supposed "new" model.

I could only speculate that this handheld had been released to fill the N710c/N760c niche.

I.M. Notorious

RE: Another Clie??
kevdo @ 6/24/2002 5:12:43 PM #
I have to give credit to Sony for making this a 66 hmz model. If I **had** to buy a Palm OS PDA today it would be pretty hard to pass up this model over the Palm model at the same price, only slower and no MP3.

-Kevin Crossman
I don't get it
abosco @ 6/24/2002 9:09:23 PM #
I just don't get it. Why would Sony release an OS 4.1 device so close to an announcement of an OS 5.0 device? While I take into consideration an upgraded screen, faster processor, an mp3 player, and worse battery life, I hardly consider this an upgrade to the T615C. If you are willing to pay an extra $100 bucks for an mp3 player and faster processor, why not just get an NR70 for another $100 and you can get a trully beautiful screen (including a control wand :D). The T665C is too much of a mixture of both.

While most people will disagree, I will explain IMO why it may not sell.

•It's an OS 4.1 device while OS 5.0 may be making its appearance in devices in a month's time. Bad timing.

•Device is too much of a mixture of other devices whereas there is basically no target market for this.

•The closest thing to a target audience for this handheld is more of a pda geek and pda geeks regularly visit PIC, PDABuzz, Brighthand, PalmBlvd, etc., so they are aware that OS 5 handhelds are just about ready to hit the market. More likely than not, most people are willing to wait one month to get a better handheld.

IMHO it just won't sell as well as the other Cliés.

-Bosco
Waiting for ARMed Smartphone

RE: Another Clie??
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 10:20:09 PM #
What's to get? By your standard the move from the M505 to the M515 wasn't a worthy upgrade, but I am sure there are those out there who would disagree. If adding a new processor, screen, and an mp3 player doesn't qualify as an upgrade, I don't know what does. What are you expecting from the first OS5 devices? With that mentality, I'm afraid you may be disapointed.

And note that the extra $100 is the difference now that Sony has dropped the price of the T615. You are essentially getting this for the same price of $400. The same as the "upgraded" M515. How is this a ripoff? The device might not be for everyone, but to say that it is overpriced is just ridiculous. Also note all those PIC readers who posted comments on the release of the NR70 about how they would buy a similar device if it was in the T615 form factor. Well here it is... and still complaints.

As far as target audience, Sony hits the nail on the head. Sony has never targeted business users. The Clie's are marketed as Personal Entertainment Organizers. Hence, MP3 players, cameras and hi-res screens fit right in. Want a more business like device? Get a M515.

Lastly my rant... This is an amazing device, not as amazing as my NR70V, but still amazing =) All of this cutting edge technology packed into a tiny form factor and people still find things to complain about. Note that not 6 months ago the same people were complaining about not having what the T665 is delivering now. People just like complaining I guess. Sony's next model could make coffee for you in the morning and I guarantee that there would be people here whining about how they don't drink coffee, so what are they supposed to do? Ack! I can't wait to read the review of the first OS5 handheld and see all of the complaints. Most, probably from those same people who are "holding out" for an OS5 device now. Now, as far as those complaining about battery life... Yes it could be better, but c'mon! Don't get a high-end device with all of the bells and whistles and expect the same battery performance. Do you buy a Hummer, then complain about the gas mileage? Or better yet, how about comparing the Hummer(palm) with a Focus(PPC) and then complain about the Hummer... Geez, if battery life is such an issue, get a PalmVx. I hear they last a long time, are cheap and doesn't have all that extra crap that no one uses =)

RE: Another Clie??
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 11:49:00 PM #
"If adding a new processor, screen, and an mp3 player doesn't qualify as an upgrade, I don't know what does."

Agreed. I'm surprised that we have not had the "This is what the it should have been the first time" argument. If I already had a T615, I would consider this one a possible upgrade. I was one who sold my M505 to get the M515, something that I have never regreted. Yet I'm sure that most only think of the screen, while ignoring the fact that it had twice the RAM and much better battery life.

Oh well, it does not matter what you get, someone will complain. That being the case, I guess we should forget about buying devices for them, and just get one for ourselves.

RE: Another Clie??
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 1:46:58 AM #
well said.....

RE: Another Clie??
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 6:27:18 AM #
Who wants virtual graffiti, maybe sony is simply make a variety of products who have different needs and interests, some who have no need for a keyboard and couldn't care less about virtual gradfiti
RE: Another Clie??
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 11:15:06 AM #
I think a lot of people want virtual graffiti but without the keyboard. So far only Handera offers this (plus voice recording and 2 expansion slots) but still no color, mp3, 16 megs etc
RE: Another Clie??
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 11:37:32 AM #
At the rate Sony is releasing new device models, I don't think they are really focused on selling. They are just doing market research in what is, for Sony, a proven (albeit rather expensive) method. And I suspect they have the brains to adjust the meaning of the sales figures on this device upward, given how close its release was to that of OS 5.

Prp
Stick that in your pipe and plunge it.

RE: Another Clie??
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 1:21:07 PM #
The Dragonball Super VZ just came out, and it doubles the speed of the unit with a minimum of effort. What's wrong with taking advantage of that... remember, the ARM-based OS was *just* released, and it's going to be a scramble to get new devices out by Christmas.
RE: Another Clie??
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 3:41:35 PM #
This isn't an upgrade to the T615c; this is just the new half-year model, which auto manufacturers sometimes release to keep up the foot traffic of *new* buyers coming into the car dealer showrooms. With cars, they sometimes only add a little trim and a few horsepower more. Sony only had to add enough features to counter a few items in the bad reviews (better "reds" on the LCD) and keep up a little marketing buzx (66 MHz! mp3!).

The upgrade model will probably be the OS 5.x.x (x > 0) models (after the early-adopter OS 5.0 wrinkles are ironed out).

RE: Another Clie??
michaelfurman @ 6/26/2002 2:18:10 PM #
IMHO: I like most PDA geeks are awaiting the 5.0 releases. I'll see if the units are what they have been built up to be, but if not then I will grab a nr70v and be happy since I am sure they will be priced even lower a month after the ARM units hit.

Rant: So when do I get a device that lets me record quick verbal notes without having to buy another addon that will not travel with me when I upgrade next. I got my Prism for $250 in Feb/2001 with the $200 rebate @ COMPUSA that I had found out about here. BTW, the prism is not over rated. Great unit, and with the super bright screen, it lets me walk through the house without a night light ;-D.

So I guess I am perched on the fence waiting to see the next unit in the parade before making my upgrade choice. I am sure that many are sitting on th fence with me.

-Mike-

RE: Another Clie??
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/5/2002 12:52:29 AM #
What's the difference between the Visor Prism and the Sony Clie PEG T655C? I am looking to upgrade to the Sony, please help me out. thanks
RE: Another Clie??
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/21/2002 4:27:35 PM #
Posted by Brent

I just bought the T-665C a couple days ago and can say I am quite impressed. My other palm pilot was a Palm Pilot Professional that my friend gave 8 months ago. I used it every day and thought it was awesome. So for me the jump between the two was huge. I have always liked SONY because the quality of their products. I paid 359 dollars with a warranty at best buy. I also downloaded the Kimoma player for it because the Gmovie software that comes with it sucks. With the kinoma player you can pretty much watch movie trailers and other mpeg files in pretty good resoultion. I think it looks great for such a small device. The sound on this thing is unbelievable that little speaker can really sound out. I have read about many people saying that they will hold out for OS 5 but the SONY T-665 is pretty awesome and its out NOW.

P.S.

If you can afford it buy the NR-70 with the camera on it. its costs about 200 dollars more but its pretty cool.

RE: Another Clie??
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/20/2002 12:59:41 PM #
The Prism is a great PDA but it's bulkier than the 665 and the colors on the Sony kicks butt over the Prism... 320 * 320 vs. 160 * 160... i switched from the Prism to the 665 and i'm enjoying the difference bigtime... plus, the 665 has 16mb internal vs. the 8 for the Prism... plus, i had some memory sticks lying around from my Sony digicam so i was able to have more memory at a cheap price... displaying pictures on the 665 is way better than the Prism... it was almost like i was viewing a pix on my computer and the software was free... for the Prism, i had to dl albums to go which was a demo... if you don't mind paying the diff, the 665 is a much better PDA but $100-$150 is a lot of money... if you're content with the Prism, it may not be worth the $100 investment especially with the new Palm OS coming out around December...

Sort MP3 list in AudioPlayer yet?

PalmAddict @ 6/24/2002 4:35:29 PM #
Ed,

You mentioned that they updated the audio player for Bass purposes, and it appears to have a new "equilizer" display mode, but I still have a couple of questions:

1. Can you reorganize the order of the songs or are you stuck with whatever order the Clie wants them in?

and

2. Are you still limited to 128K encoding on the MP3s or does it support higher bit rates, and if so, how high?

As the MP3 player is one of the major changes, I kind of feel these may be relevent.

Thanks.

"We're a planet of nearly six billion ninnies living in a civilization that was designed by a few thousand amazingly smart deviants."

-Scott Adams

RE: Sort MP3 list in AudioPlayer yet?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 5:04:22 PM #
I don't think Sony has added any new features to the Audio Player besides the one I mentioned. I don't see any any way to change the order of the files. You can set it to shuffle, which plays them in random order, though. According to the documentation, it supports up to 256 kbps.
RE: Sort MP3 list in AudioPlayer yet?
CarlJ @ 6/24/2002 5:39:32 PM #
Not quite the answers you're looking for, but perhaps I can help...

1. I, too, wish the AuidoPlayer had playlists, or at least sorting, but there is some primitive control over the display order, as Audioplayer lists tracks in the order they physically appear in the MSAUDIO directory. I prefer tracks to be sorted by artist and then song title, so I keep a batch file on my PC in the directory where the "source" copies of the MP3s destined for my Clie live, and reload the msaudio directory from scratch occasionally ("e:" being the drive where my Clie appears when MS Import is running):

e:
cd \PALM\PROGRAMS\MSAUDIO
del *.mp3
c:
copy Judith.mp3 e:
copy PlanetClaire.mp3 e:
copy DevilsHaircut.mp3 e:
...

Takes a couple minutes to run, but, well, one less annoying problem.

2. As long as MP3s are encoded as 44.1khz and Joint Stereo, bitrate can be almost anything -- I've had VBR MP3s as high as 225kbps on my 710c (upgraded to 760c) and never had any playback problems whatsoever, even in the background with extensive use of other (in-memory) apps. I've read that the external player thingy (used with the 610/etc) had trouble above 128kbps, but the internal DSP-based players clearly do not. On the other hand, if other programs are pounding on the memory stick at the same time (msmount/pidirect, anyone?), you're likely to have trouble.

RE: Sort MP3 list in AudioPlayer yet?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 9:51:48 PM #
Hey CarlJ - Isn't Planet Claire a fantastic tune!!!
RE: Sort MP3 list in AudioPlayer yet?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 12:01:04 AM #
I got no problem in playing MP3 having bitrates of over 256kbps.
RE: Sort MP3 list in AudioPlayer yet?
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/8/2002 8:06:34 PM #
Yeah I have 412 kbps Variable bitrate MP3s with a few problems at first, but they magically disappeared after a few days, don't know why, but they work now!
RE: Sort MP3 list in AudioPlayer yet?
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/17/2002 8:32:22 PM #
Guess you guys haven't had a chance to play with one of these yet... I bought mine last night, and I think SONY finally went in the right direction again.

YES - it includes an app called MP3mgr that allows you to create *albums* from the songs on your memory stick and play them back in that order. It also includes a sound creator app for your pc that lets you convert .wav and .mp3 samples into system sounds for alarms and system tones. WAY cool.

IMHO - the NR series is serious technology that is overlooked by the bloat. I don't think larger and heavier is the way to go. I was hoping and hoping that SONY would take all the goodies from the NR series and pack them into a T series form factor, which is less than 5oz and thin as anything I've ever seen in the PDA game. I also didn't know if it was possible. Apparently it is! Good for sony, and good for me, because I bought one on sale at Best Buy for $359 last night. It is blowing my mind. Fast as heck! The 66 mhz Dragonball is incredible.

For all you OS 5'rs out there: YES OS5 will be out soon. Do you really think that v5.0.0 is going to be ready for prime time? LOL Nosir... If you want a real OS5 device, without being a beta tester that paid $600 for the privilege of doing so, then you'll be waiting an additional 3-4 months for v 5.x to come out.

No thanks. I'll take my brilliant display, 310% FASTER speed, MP3's and unlimited expansion RIGHT NOW!! And the Bluetooth MS and GPS MS have already been released in Japan. Give it 4 months and we should see them here. Or give me a japanese translator and I'll buy one now (they work on US models, just are doc'd totally in jap.)

Typo?

PenreeSoft @ 6/24/2002 4:42:54 PM #
Ed,
In the first paragraph you said:

"The T615C adds an MP3 player and a processor that is twice as fast."

Should that be T665?

Nicholas J. Penree
PenreeSoft
http://www.penreesoft.com

Oopsie
mentalsrule @ 6/24/2002 4:46:14 PM #
Ok first off great review and to have it out so quicly is nice... second i love that handheld for being so small and such... but i think i still love my NR70v better :)

third.. i would check your first paragraph for a spelling error of saying the 615 and not the 665.

and on the conclusion... it says 651.

just a heads up.

---------------------
They say when you play a Microsoft CD backward you can hear satanic messages...but that's nothing, if you play it forward it will install Windows
www.pratorian.net

They should...

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 5:13:32 PM #
Sony should have spend the space used for the DSP on a larger battery. Many users of the T615 din't wanted MP3.


Ed what was the battery life of the late T615?

RE: They should...
danger @ 6/24/2002 5:35:09 PM #
I got 4hrs 15mins with my T615 with backlight on low.

I lived with it for about 4 months before I found the battery life and poor graffiti recognition were truly not worth the HiRes screen and switched back to my old m505. I wouldn't touch any PDA with less than 6 hours battery life now.

RE: They should...
Altema @ 6/24/2002 5:52:01 PM #
"I think Sony really messed up this time with the battery life; Geez it is lower than the Ipaq! Come on Sony this is a Palm not a PPC."

But the iPaq is a lot bigger, can't play video as well, and can't run WordSmith. Perhaps what they could have done is make the CPU load sensitive, keeping CPU speed low for common tasks and kicking it up for intensive ones. This is what FastCPU does, but I'm lazy and usually kick everything up to 40Mhz. However, it runs fine with no acceleration, and I forget it's turned off unless I'm mapping or doing my large spreadsheets.

RE: They should...
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 6:39:32 PM #
The phone/pda just announced by Kyocera in another article here on PIC has DOUBLE the battery life of the T665C AND it has almost the same features plus phone/data capabilities. What gives sony?
RE: They should...
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 11:35:25 PM #
'danger' said:
>I lived with [the T615C] for about 4 months before I
>found the battery life and poor graffiti recognition
>were truly not worth the HiRes screen and switched
>back to my old m505.

Wait a second, is poor Graffiti recognition a known
issue with the T6xx? It seems like I could enter
Graffiti much faster on both my Palm III/Palm V -- I
just assumed I was having a hard time with the
slimmer stylus of the T6.

Thanks for any info you can provide!


RE: They should...
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 6:44:59 AM #
"But the Ipaq is bigger"


Yeah but there are other handheld with exact same capabilities that are smaller. The Toshiba e310, even trough it is a PPC it runs for 8 hours without a recharge and it is about as slim as a Clie. (this is incredible since it is running on a power hungry Stron ARM and PPC bloatware).


RE: They should...
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 1:24:40 PM #
Doen't the Super VZ have a built-in media player? Are they using that or still using an external device?
RE: They should...
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 3:55:57 PM #
The T615C units which I've played with seem to need heavier pressure on the digitizer in order to get the same Graffiti recognition accuracy. The toothpick stylus encourages just the opposite.
RE: They should...
Altema @ 6/25/2002 4:43:40 PM #
"Yeah but there are other handheld..."

Yes, I know, but the poster mentioned the iPaq specifically. I agree that the Toshiba has a heck of a battery, wonder if I can jump start my van with it?

This trend of Sony has brought up the opportunity for people to honestly say that PPC battery life is better than some Palm devices.

One very important point we miss though, when comparing battery life between PPC and Palm devices, is standby time. If you have a PPC and a Palm, both with 8 hour battery life while running, The PPC will only go a few days... even if not used. Palms can go for months. I have an M505 which I'm keeping for someone while they recover from a health issue. The last time it saw a charger was three months ago, and it's battery is still at 70%.

RE: They should...
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 9:27:16 PM #
>If you have a PPC and a Palm, both with 8 hour battery
>life while running, The PPC will only go a few days...
>even if not used. Palms can go for months

True for all palm os devices exept the clies. According to the gadgeteer the clie (T615) goes to 25% battery in just a few days of standby.

www.the-gadgeteer.com/ubb/Forum441/HTML/000001-3.html

The low battery life of the Clie is not just while in just it also affects its standby time.

RE: They should...
Altema @ 6/26/2002 10:53:00 AM #
"True for all palm os devices exept the clies. According to the gadgeteer the clie (T615) goes to 25% battery in just a few days of standby."

Thanks for the info, I did not know that.

I wonder what Sony thinks we are supposed to do when we go on vacation. Leave it in a drawer at home to die before we get back? Take it with us to feed it and keep it alive? Put it in the cradle at home like it's on life support?

Maybe we can start 'Clie Sitting Services' where you drop your device off and they watch it and make sure it does not get low.

That m505 I mentioned earlier has been charged twice in 6 months, and that was only to top it off because I thought the owner was going to pick it up.

RE: They should...
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/23/2002 1:01:04 PM #
How hard is it to put it in it's friggin' cradle?! Geez! For those who bought this (or any palmtop computer) for MP3 playing, good luck with the battery life. I use this thing constantly for work, and occasionally play back some MP3's on a flight (although for that, my laptop's *MUCH* better), and to play back pictures of the family for friends and colleagues.

But here's a funny thing I found: every night my human body requires me to rest (sleep)...so while I rest in my bed, my Clie recharges in its cradle. Of course, I need about 6 hours of sleep, the Clie only needs about 1.5 hours...so it's always ready.

If I go on a trip, I find that I have to bring stuff with me like clothes, toiletries, etc....simple enough to bring along a charger. I guess I never go on trips where I'm no where near an electrical outlet (even Europe, Asia, Africa have power) for days at a time where I also need my Clie.

Again: I sleep, it charges. *SIMPLE*

Unaceptable battery life.

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 5:11:31 PM #
This battery life would be ok for a PPC, but for a Palm OS handheld it is unaceptable. Even the .4 inch Toshiba e310 has about 6 hour battery life! (plase don't think I am a PPC troll these are actual facts).

I guess if I want a hig res slim device with good battery life, Iwill have to wait for OS 5 or switch to the dark side. :-(

RE: Unaceptable battery life.
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 6:24:02 PM #
Regrettably, I must agree with you. One of the HALLMARKS of the palm OS and devices that use it has been battery life. Pure and simple was the mantra of the original palms. A device you can carry with you, use on a regular basis and only have to charge about once every two weeks. Now don't get me wrong, I do like all the bells and whistles that sony has included in such a nice form factor but at some point I have to think about how I'm going to recharge this thing when I'm on a 2-3 day business trip with no access to a car for mobile charging and no access to my cradle.

Sony, this is just not acceptable. When PPC products like iPaq, Toshiba and so on can get better battery life, this is a joke. 2 hours of useful battery life is absurd. Either battery technology has to catch up to all the extras that come with today's PDA or the PDA makers have to abide by some degree of care for the battery life. This is one thing I think Palm has tried to keep up is the battery life. I know it would have been very easy for Palm to include all the bells and whistles like Sony does but it seems that the people at Palm still prefer a decent battery life over all the extras. At least an m515 can go for six hours on a charge. That's 300%! more battery life than this new sony. Plus the fact that OS5 stuff is literally right around the corner. I think I'll wait for my next PDA.

RE: Unaceptable battery life.
s_n_m @ 6/24/2002 6:54:34 PM #
WHY DOES THE BATTERY SUCK SO MUCH!!!

You think they would learn and put in a much bigger battery. I understand slimness/lightness is a factor but if you run out of battery it's totally useless!

Sony....make me so angry...

RE: Unaceptable battery life.
menn0 @ 6/24/2002 6:59:43 PM #
Well about the batterylife thingie
my idea is, that as soon as the overclock programs as afterburner etc are compatible with this machine you can start playing around. I mean, 66mhz is nice but you dont need that with like 90% of your software right?!. So basicly you would underclock the machine to as low as 33 or 20 mhz for most of your software. And only use the 66mhz in software like spreadsheet, citymaps, routeplanning and so on.

You might be able to pull off way better battery results. At the moment I have a IIIc which i think is one of the few color devices with a real good batterlife.

RE: Unaceptable battery life.
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 10:19:32 PM #
>>I understand slimness/lightness is a factor


Not necessarily, there are other ultra thin handhelds that have much more battery life:

1) Palm M515, when palm replaced the m505 with m515 they did not only improoved the screen and RAM they also boosted battery life.

2) The Toshiba e310, even trough it is a PPC it runs for 8 hours without a recharge and it is about as slim as a Clie. (this is incredible since it is running on a power hungry Stron ARM and PPC bloatware).

Sony definitely could have done better.

RE: Unaceptable battery life.
jjsoh @ 6/24/2002 10:25:06 PM #
I'm also in agreement.

This CLIÉ would definitely have been my Palm OS PDA of choice if it weren't for the short battery life. I would gladly switch over to this model if it would only provide as much uptime as my m505 on a single charge.

But, like some of you have voiced, I think I'm simply going to wait until a new model with similar funtionality, with better battery life, comes out. Hopefully, this will be a non-issue with OS5 ARM based Palm PDAs.

Oooh.. can't wait! Until then, I can deal with low resolution and no multimedia playback. :)


Jim

RE: Unaceptable battery life.
wilco @ 6/25/2002 12:27:51 AM #
What's the capacity of the battery? The newer ipaqs are 1400mA; older ipaq (H3630) is 950 mA, the NR70 (printed on the label) is 800 mA, wonder what's T665's?

RE: Unaceptable battery life.
ahecht @ 6/25/2002 12:41:51 AM #
I have a palm V which I underclock down to 10Mhz for most apps (some games need the full 16Mhz). If the T665 were underclocked down below 20 for everything but movies, i'm sure battery life would improve.

RE: Unaceptable battery life.
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 9:26:11 AM #
Ed, any chance of doing a quick follow-up review with all non-CPU-intensive features underclocked? Or anyone else out there with any of the 66 mhz Sony models could do some quick comparison tests.

On a side note, many people still prefer the convenience of AA batteries. Will it ever be possible to have an m130 style unit that can operate on AAs? I have a colleague that specifically passed on a buying an m130 (got an m125 grad pack instead) due to the fact that he could drop in new batteries in the field. For many folks, this reliance on an AC charger is still a major reason for their dismisal of the PDA as a "go anywhere" device.

RE: Unaceptable battery life.
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 3:52:26 PM #
You might get a little more battery life by underclocking, but my impression is that the backlight uses more than half the power even at the lowest setting. The best to conserve battery life is find a way to use the unit with the backlight off (holding an LED flashlight between ones teeth???)
RE: Unaceptable battery life.
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/27/2002 3:57:18 PM #
I am wondering what everyone is expecting in terms of battery life from the next generation of Palms powered by ARM processors (I assume these will be XScales). I have read that the new Toshiba e740 PPC (powered by an Intel PXA250) will only last about 1.5 to 2 hours when using media functions such as watching movies, surfing the web on a wireless network, etc. Hmmm, on a par with, or worse than, the Clie 665. And why would anyone upgrade if not for the added multimedia functions? Everything else is covered by the (humble) Palms of today. It would seem that in a way Palms and PPCs will converging on the same points, and I should have thought that we can all the two-week-period-without-recharging goodbye. One might as well then go for a Clie 665, which is smaller, lighter and about two thirds the price of a next-gen PPC.
RE: Unaceptable battery life.
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/27/2002 4:12:05 PM #
uups. i missed out the 'kiss' in "we can all 'kiss' the two-week-period-without-recharging goodbye". v important... =)
RE: Unaceptable battery life.
Ed @ 6/27/2002 4:22:25 PM #
A Motorola spokesperson said last month that the Palm OS 5 handhelds will use roughly half the power as Pocket PC handhelds running the same hardware.

www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=3514

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News Editor

RE: Unaceptable battery life.
He||Raiser @ 6/27/2002 4:44:23 PM #
I was really excited when I heard about the features that this device was going to provide, but I don't believe that I can get a device with such a low battery life. In a normal day, I'll spend hours typing on my IIIc and GoType keyboard (with the brightness at about 40-50%). After such a day, I can take my fully charged IIIc to where the Palm is screaming for me to charge it's batteries. I was looking toward this device because of it's MP3 capabilities, but I want to be able to type at the same time and not have the device discharge after one page of homework. I guess I'll have to wait until OS5 handhelds to give me the battery life I'll need.

RE: Unaceptable battery life.
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/17/2002 8:46:48 PM #
You guys are hysterical. Really.

How much battery life does an average MP3 player get? 3-4 hours...??? Sony is good, but they can't defy the laws of physics, or the current state of battery technology.

And you think a next generation device running a BIGGER processor and larger OS is going to consume LESS battery life? LMAO - Come ON!

I own a T665. Personally, I do work in an office (most people who can afford a $400 PDA do, I think) and that office has <gasp> POWER OUTLETS!!! OmiGOD! That means for $9.99 I can buy an extra cable and keep it hooked up at the office! Wow! Put it on the cradle at night and you probably won't have any problems. Keep it on a charger at work during the day and you DEFINITELY won't have any problems. And if you don't listen to MP3's all day or watch movies (you are supposed to be working after all;) You also shouldn't ever notice a problem with the battery life.

I used mine for 2 1/2 hours today, without recharging, and never even saw the battery meter move. I don't know how you guys benchmark battery life, because I was listening to MP3's and surfing AvantGo for 45 minutes and didn't see any decrease in the charge. So, either my battery meter is hosed, or these *benchmarks* aren't using it in the same way I do. And that's really all that matters to me. If you like it, go for it! IF not, go buy a PPC or monochrome palm and use it as a dayplanner and nothing else.

RE: Unaceptable battery life.
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/17/2002 9:21:49 PM #
it's just a matter of time before sony optimizes the battery life, you are talking about the company who makes MD player that could play for 50 hours on one AA battery here.

Wonderful Review, Ed!

Drummer4Life05 @ 6/24/2002 5:58:42 PM #
Ed- Great job on the review!
This will definately be my next handheld! (I'm still suffering with a Palm IIIxe. ::sigh::)

Great Job!

Questions

robrecht @ 6/24/2002 6:10:28 PM #
I presume you can you use the handheld while the BC10 is charging it?

Do people expect that OS5 processors will allow for longer battery life?

Any options for a POTS modem?

Thanks, Robrecht

RE: Questions
Ed @ 6/25/2002 9:26:02 AM #
Read more about the BC10:
www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=3447

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News Editor

couple things

cyn @ 6/24/2002 7:01:09 PM #
Let's see - it's a high-res color palm, so we're already not targeting the folks who like to carry their palm around for two weeks before recharging it. Anyways, if you're a busy guy who uses your handheld for stuff, you want to be syncing it anyways, how hard is it to 'accidentally' leave it in the cradle?

well, the main differences:
mp3, twice the processor speed, 'better screen'
--
mp3 - clearly a 'bonus' glitz feature - not exactly intended for the aforementioned business types who should be syncing in the cradle often. Yes it's nice to have mp3 playing in your handheld, but there's not a lot of gain unless you don't need the headphones - which you only get if you're listening 'not on the go'. I think the mp3 addition was just a selling point, because the screen alone probably wasn't enough to warrant a new purchase, and the faster processor doesn't mean a whole lot to most folk - those it does, it alone would probably be a selling point (either games or large db's/documents/etc.)

screen - same resolution, same colors, different richness and brightness - entirely subjective and will depend on the individual.

So - really - this isn't meant to be the rock-hard tool that you take around with you for weeks on end, but it's also got the "good practices" requirement that will keep you synchronizing often if you do use it a lot. I think (mp3's aside) that there's enough battery life in it for most people, except for maybe ebook/avantgo readers like myself - who just plop down for hours on end reading. I suppose 'hardcore' gamers might be similar - I can understand enjoying a specific location and using your handheld there - be it reading or gaming - but still, 3 1/2 hours is a good deal of time - and honestly, if you just buy a memorystick and MS Backup before you go do whatever activity, you'll be able to drain the battery all the way and not worry (for gaming/book) - although in the case of gaming you might not keep those new high scores I suppose :)

What do you guys think Sony will release next?

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 8:16:12 PM #
I'm thinking maybe an update to the S360 B/W.

Personally, I think I will hold out on purchasing a sony color pda until the batter life is solved and until Palm OS 5 is released.

RE: What do you guys think Sony will release next?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 8:30:26 PM #
While you're holdin' out, I'm enjoyin' mine!
RE: What do you guys think Sony will release next?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 9:56:29 PM #
Maybe because I can't afford one yet.
RE: What do you guys think Sony will release next?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 10:16:34 PM #
Then I guess that means that your not holding out, you just can't afford one. Big difference...
RE: What do you guys think Sony will release next?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 10:38:19 PM #
Not really.

"Not being able to afford" doesn't have to mean that I don't have money. It could mean that I choose to spend on it on other areas in my life (e.g. social interactions, food, software, etc.) When the PDA that cataches my eye comes to the market, I will purchase it. The Sony T665C looks really great, but I can't justify expending $400 of my income to purchase a product that doesn't have all the features I'm looking for.

Now that I'm seeing this is turning into a flame war, I will shut-up.

I'm glad you have it or the T615C (or maybe you were just making a point). I might be slightly envious. Just understand my POV.

RE: What do you guys think Sony will release next?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 11:20:17 PM #
>social interactions

You can find "social interactions" for less than the price of a color pda. At least that's what I'm told...I wouldn't know anything about it personally, you undersatand :)

RE: What do you guys think Sony will release next?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/26/2002 3:05:09 PM #
ha ha ha!
RE: What do you guys think Sony will release next?
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/4/2002 4:46:52 PM #
social interactions? well settle for a $50 blow___.

Adaptor....

MJGunn @ 6/24/2002 9:02:35 PM #
"The T665C comes with an adapter that allows you to plug the power cord directly into the handheld, saving you some money. "

Thats great, I loved that about my original Clie. Ed, do you remember if the power plug is the same one from the original T615? If so, I wonder if us t615 users could get our hands on one of these adaptors for a couple of bucks......

RE: Adaptor....
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 12:26:06 AM #
EBAY BAYBEE!!!!
RE: Adaptor....
Ed @ 6/25/2002 9:04:35 AM #
Yes the HotSync connector is the same for all the T series. I've seen these adpaters on sale in stores but they were more than a couple of bucks.

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News Editor
RE: I don't get it
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 10:08:28 PM #
I don't think that the general public knows about OS5, Dragonballs, ARM, or X-scale. Only people like us do. Alot of my co-workers who use Palms heavily don't know that processors come in different speeds. They will just buy a Palm when they think they need one, and this is one of the best right now. Only one other guy I know of has any idea that big changes are coming soon, but he hasn't any real idea what they are. I'm sure we are a very small segment of the market. Even smaller when you account for the diehard Palm or Sony of Handspring, Handera factions who will only use their chosen marque.

tuckermaclain@yahoo.com

my prediction

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 10:17:22 PM #
will make cool demos but will go the way of the 415 because of pathetic battery life. Sorry but this is a dud
RE: my prediction
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 10:23:21 PM #
A worse prediction is that is will sell OK, but turn people off to the Palm OS because of crappy battery life.
RE: my prediction
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/26/2002 12:13:37 AM #
How about... why would people settle for a Palm m515 while they could get this Sony with a faster processor, high resolution, mp3 player...even with the shorten battery life those are a lot of extra features to disregard.

I mean come-on, how many of us don't charge our PDA's on a daily bases? Get back from work, hang-up your coat, drop the PDA in the cradle...simple. Unless you spend your time playing games on the machine...well then you really should GROW UP!

RE: my prediction
Altema @ 6/28/2002 1:12:36 PM #
"I mean come-on, how many of us don't charge our PDA's on a daily bases? Get back from work, hang-up your coat, drop the PDA in the cradle...simple. Unless you spend your time playing games on the machine...well then you really should GROW UP!"

This is a little late, but...

I agree with the first of your comments in that the T665c is a great device, and the battery life should not be a problem for those who charge regularly.

However, there are those who have full schedules, or work two jobs, or who take vacations. In those cases, the new Sony would be a paperweight before they got back to the charger that same day. For me, I do GPS mapping, relational databases, and spreadsheets all day long. I would not be able to use the MP3 player, the only benefit of the high res would be in spreadsheets, and no one make a serious GPS unit for the Sony. On top of all that, the battery would be dead in early afternoon. You can plug into a car adapter, but what about those times when I'm at a customer site and walking around on a project? And forget about having anything left when going out with family or friends after work, or late classes.

The M515 has a nice display, not beautiful like the T665c, but still adequate. For the job I do, the Palm can hack it, and still keeps coming back for more. To me, that's more important than entertainment.

I'm waiting...

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 10:28:19 PM #
I'm gonna wait till OS 5 to be released and the NR70's price to be lowered down to $399...just a few more months...few more months..few more months.

Sony's Website SHOWS FULL REMOTE!

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 10:36:05 PM #
Hey...

I just thought I'd point out that the picture of the T665 on Sony's website shows the unit with a FULL WAND REMOTE... Maybe they only sent Ed a demo with the smaller remote, but the box comes with the full? Ed, let us know if you recevied a sealed consumer box, or if Sony decided to include the full remote...

Thanks!

NYClie

RE: Sony's Website SHOWS FULL REMOTE!
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 12:24:15 AM #
i saw that too....i wonder if it *REALLY* comes with the full remote...THAT would be awsome!
RE: Sony's Website SHOWS FULL REMOTE!
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 12:33:17 AM #
i am convinced that it HAS to come with the full remote...even though there doesnt seem to be a remote connection on the clie itself...EVERY pic shows the t665 with the full remote...there are even CLOSE UP pics of the remote!
RE: Sony's Website SHOWS FULL REMOTE!
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 12:35:45 AM #
I believe that picture is wrong .....
RE: Sony's Website SHOWS FULL REMOTE!
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 2:34:34 AM #
thats a HUGE mistake if the picture is wrong...sony wouldnt miss something sooo obvious...those pics have to be edited, approved, edited again, then reapproved to represent the item for sale...there is more than one pic that shows that clie with the remote also:

www.sonystyle.com/images/250x250/shots/t665_1.jpg

www.sonystyle.com/images/250x250/shots/t665_2.jpg

i (obviously) got those from the sony site...now either blind people work on sony's web team, or THE T665c COMES WITH A REMOTE!!! which would be awsome...

RE: Sony's Website SHOWS FULL REMOTE!
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 3:13:27 AM #
I don't see how that is posible ...

http://www.sony.jp/products/Consumer/PEG/PEG-T650C/index.html

japnese site shows that it has a remote volumn control :P Probably Sony US messed up, and thought it got a remote

RE: Sony's Website SHOWS FULL REMOTE!
Ed @ 6/25/2002 9:10:33 AM #
The T665C doesn't come with the Control Wand. This is an error on the part of SonyStyle U.S. Probably no one made it clear to them that they couldn't use pictures of the T615C.

The T665C manual has instructions for using the volume control on the mini headphones, not for using the Control Wand.

Even if it did come with it, you couldn't plug it in. Look at the image of the left side of the T665C. Notice that there isn't the second small port that the Control Wand needs under the main port for the headphones.
www.palminfocenter.com/images/img_Sony_T665C_3_L.jpg

I sent some email to my contact and you should see the site updated soon.

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News Editor

Headphones for 655
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 9:46:40 AM #
I've just been to Sony USA web site. It shows there the new PDA with headphones controller from NR series(not the plain-looking one as in the review). I wonder which one you are really getting... Is it just a hoax from Sony to get more customers???
RE: Sony's Website SHOWS FULL REMOTE!
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 11:25:30 AM #
how could sony miss something so obvious. i wonder how many people pre ordered yesterday based on those pics...how pissed are they gonna be when they realise the t665 comes with no remote!

Bass not bass

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 11:31:07 PM #
Unless Sony spelt it differently, it should be Mega-Bass, not Mega-Base. A "huge" error...
RE: Bass not bass
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 1:21:06 AM #
I don't think this is a "huge" mistake. Now, that you made two errors in just two sentences, that's pretty huge. :)

You meant to name this "Bass not Base"
The word is "spelled".

RE: Bass not base
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 11:12:11 AM #
All your Mega Base are belong to us!
RE: Bass not bass
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 9:08:40 PM #
Hahahahah
RE: Bass not bass
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/28/2002 1:07:22 PM #
In re the first reply:

I disagree. It is a huge error. It's the biggest error I have ever seen, in fact. Ever!

Also, "spelt" was not an error. It's an accepted British spelling for "spelled".

I forbid anyone to respond to this.

RE: Bass not bass
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/27/2002 10:15:22 AM #
Horray for UK spelling!
Down with forcets, Up with taps!
Down with color, up with colour!
Horray!
RE: Bass not bass
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/8/2002 2:39:54 AM #
forcets or faucets?
RE: Bass not bass
formerlyanon @ 9/8/2002 4:15:03 AM #
i've only heard it said, and i'm bad at spelling

__________________________________________________________________
My palm III was 50p from a charity shop, and introduced me to pdas

Audio recording??

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 11:53:26 PM #
It is great that it has an upgraded audio playback. I was just wondering if it has a built-in microphone and the capability of audio recording? As a college student, it would be very nice if I can use it as a digital audio recorder and record lectures with it...
RE: Audio recording??
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 5:14:15 AM #
The only Palm OS machine with voice recording capability is Acer S10.
RE: Audio recording??
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 8:26:18 AM #
and handera
RE: Audio recording??
Ed @ 6/25/2002 11:38:41 AM #
The T665C has no audio recording abilities. I added something to the review to make this clear.

I may make the occasional typo here and there but I promise I don't leave major features out of reviews. If it doesn't get mentioned, it isn't in there.

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News Editor

FastCPU

Quik_Fix @ 6/24/2002 11:58:48 PM #
Unless I'm mistaken, FastCPU is already capable of underclocking this Clie. I'm pretty sure it should be able to handle it...Give it a try!

...In accordance with the prophecy...

Quik_Fix
quikfix@hotmail.com

RE: FastCPU
Ed @ 6/25/2002 8:39:27 AM #
The developer's site says peak frequency is 66 MHz. I'll write them and double check but I don't think it supports this processor.

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News Editor
RE: FastCPU
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/25/2002 4:06:03 PM #
No Go - FastCPU crases and you have to do a hard reset every time it is run. Can't underclock yet...

...Come on MegaSoft!...

RE: FastCPU
Lfh @ 7/29/2002 6:31:33 AM #
I asked them about this, they are working on it

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with Ketchup

NO BLUE!!!

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 12:27:35 AM #
I really like the blue color...it doesnt look like this color will be offered for the T665...any inside info ed??? (or anyone else??)

Battery Life

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 5:17:47 AM #
I've been waiting for this upgraded T615C to come out. Having an MP3 function is something I'll love to have when I drive home from work and can play my favourite tunes.

However the NR70V is still attractive!

And seriously, what is the battery life of the NR70V versus the T615C/ ?T655? I guess it the NR70V battery life won't be better given the bigger screen size.

I have a Palm Vx for the last 2.5 years. I have to recharge it every day - I only use for 3-4 times a day for 5-10 mins.... so I guess recharging daily ( plus hotsync too ) is not a big deal!

RE: Battery Life
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 5:55:17 AM #
if recharging mean putting it on the cradle, then I sure don't mind recharging it everyday.
RE: Battery Life
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 10:42:57 AM #
> I guess it the NR70V battery life won't be better given
> the bigger screen size.

The NR-70 is considerably bigger and thus has room for a bigger battery.

RE: Battery Life
Altema @ 6/25/2002 4:34:19 PM #
"I have a Palm Vx for the last 2.5 years. I have to recharge it every day - I only use for 3-4 times a day for 5-10 mins.... so I guess recharging daily ( plus hotsync too ) is not a big deal!"

Your Vx battery needs to be replaced (not an easy task with the heat gun and all). You should be able to go for a few weeks between recharges. BUT, if you already are used to charging every night, like music on the go, and don't mind a wonderful screen, there's a t665c with your name on it!

RE: Battery Life
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/27/2002 10:40:59 PM #
Definitely, my Palm battery needs replacement. Also my digitizer is stuffed and needs calibration once day.

I've given it some lot of thought. I would get the T665C givens its form factors, however being closely outdated soon. The NR70V is so appealing, but the idea of it sagging in my pocket, pulling out, having to untwist it with two hands to get into tablet mode, and the ability of not having 4 extra buttons to swtich it on to quickload programs - makes me go for something smaller.

I wish Sony would listen to us! Maybe we shall see these improvements with Palm Os5 models. MAYBE

Handspring and probably Palm are TOAST

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 4:56:09 AM #
if they don't step up to the plate REAL FAST with something like this. And angels might fly outta my butt.

Full disclosure: I presently own Visors Prisim and Deluxe. A few months back, I paid $229 for my reconditioned Prism. I'm pleased with the Prism, BUT compare it or the Treo 90, or any color Palm with the T665C at $400, AND THEY ARE TOAST!!!!

Sony has the spirit of innovation (even if they release too many products), the ability to keep beckoning "wow" out of consumers, and--most of all--the $$$$$$$ to hunker down and ride out the money losing PDA market till they come out on top. Oh, by the way, Sony will gladly concede the low end PDA market to others; low-end PDA are becoming a commodity and margins will soon be zero.

Does Sony even make a PDA that's not Hi-res Color? That's just for starters, forget it when you talk about features beyond the basics. Oh yes, the top Treos offer wireless, no doubt important, but 'tain't enuf to save their fate. I seriously contemplated buying one but their wireless service options are WAY toooo limited and the device offers little in the way of expansion, Handspring's former strength.

R.I.P. Handspring & Palm. Best you can hope for is to be bought out by Sony. I'd give a 1 in 3 chance of that happening to ONE of them. The other, probably Handspring, is TOAST.

RE: Handspring and probably Palm are TOAST
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 8:39:47 AM #
What is so innovative about this device that wasn't in the N710C a year ago? Palm alone will outsell everything Sony has done in the past year with just their OS 5 devices this fall.
RE: Handspring and probably Palm are TOAST
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 9:37:35 AM #
Not quite. Palm is trying to focus on business customers and vertical applications now. Handspring is focused on communications devices/converged devices. Sony is focusing on the consumer. They've partitioned the market. I have concerns for Handspring, as they've been quite inept in managing their market (and, as a side effect, their inventory backlog) and they are going into a really tough market (due to dealing with telco's, which can be tough). I think Palm is taking good steps to protect their market. (I should note that I am a very satisfied user of both the Clie and Palm handhelds.)
RE: Handspring and probably Palm are TOAST
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 11:07:59 AM #
Sony has almost zero presence in the corporate market. You certainly won't find any big companies standardizing on Clies. In the long run the consumer market follows the corporate market. That's why most people don't buy macs

Minor changes.

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 6:34:51 AM #
Did anyone noticed that the Jog Dial was moved lower? Does this improoves accessibility of it?


Also the buttons are black instead of chrome plated. It think Sony realized that the chrome tended to fall off.

RE: Minor changes.
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/26/2002 6:17:32 AM #
The new Jog dial sucks, it is more difficult to reach than when it was higher.

They should also remove the stupid chrome from the side trim it falls and makes the handheld look cheap.

wow

PIC mobile user @ 6/25/2002 10:24:05 AM #
I'm just wondering if they actually expect there to be a huge following of users with this one since PalmOS5 devices are going to come out soon and the Clie nr70 is close to the same price.

Just curious to hear the views of anyone else.Ths is not meant to be flame bait.

I Wanna Be a Stormtrooper?

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 11:06:55 AM #
Ed,
What kind of song is this and where did you get this mp3 file? I wanna get a copy for my Clie N710. I'm a big Star Wars fanboy.
RE: I Wanna Be a Stormtrooper?
Ed @ 6/25/2002 11:35:00 AM #
It's from the Anarchy Steering Committee:
http://www.earstation.com/asc/
It's pretty damn funny and can be downloaded from mp3.com.

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News Editor

''Copied'' Reviews......

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 2:39:30 PM #
I noticed that parts of the review look familiar and I found some of the same comments on your NR70V review.

I understand that they both come from the same company and that they are quite similar in some ways, but still it is worthwhile to do a separate one because each time you write, it would yield something different and maybe a different impression formed.

Some parts, like underclocking the processor for more power (which will definitely be of interest to people who are power-conscious) has not been fully followed-up since then.

Overall I think it is a good review but maybe if you can make it into an individual review with more 'character" to it on its impression and usability it would be better.

Lastly, I hope you address it and I really would be disappointed if you deleted my comment because I have been a loyal palminfocenter fan for the last year.

RE: ''Copied'' Reviews......
Ed @ 6/25/2002 3:02:25 PM #
I would have loved to be able to rewrite the entire review but I was under tremendous time pressure. I only got this handheld on Friday and getting out a complete 3,000 word review written by Monday wasn't possible. The only parts that got recycled were ones that were exactly the same between the two models. Spending extra time finding ways to write the exact same thing again would have distracted me from the features that had changed.

To cover the part about the underclocking app, I was unable to find one that supports the T665C. Can you name one you are sure of?

---
News Editor

RE: ''Copied'' Reviews......
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 3:08:30 PM #
who cares if ed cuts and pastes from other reviews...i did that with my college papers all the time.
RE: ''Copied'' Reviews......
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 3:48:59 PM #
Hmmm....I thought that maybe you have time since no one has their hands on one yet. The pressure is really self-imposed and if you really take some time to do some daily routine on it, maybe you will get a different opinion on it (maybe good or bad, but just a little different)

Maybe I am just too picky but I do treasure quality than quantity....sometimes short is good too.

By the way I don't live in Japan so I really don't have a T665 handy, and I really don't mean to pick on this specific item, just thought I used it as an example.

Multi-task palm machine?

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 8:29:27 PM #
Ed,

In your article, your wrote:

'You can play music in the background while you do other things with your handheld.'

Does that mean you can play MP3 music with the audio player and run some other appls at the same time WITHOUT turning off the Audio Player? Please Advise!

Thanx!

RE: Multi-task palm machine?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 9:38:43 PM #
yes all music playing clies do this.
Music can be playing whilst you do something else like read avantgo etc etc
RE: Multi-task palm machine?
nuopus @ 6/25/2002 11:06:00 PM #
"Multi-task palm machine?"

No, the PalmOS 4.x does not have any form of multitasking. The unit that plays MP3 music is a separate unit built into device itself.

Think of it as a cdrom in your computer. If you put a CD in and press the play button on the cd-rom itself it will play music through the sound jack on the cd-rom. If you open your cd player software, it will automatically show the current song title if its in the database because the cd-rom knows what track its playing ... even though the software itself is not controling the playback.

The software just acts as triggers that tell the device what to play from which file. Thats all. So when you quit from the piece of software ... its the DEVICE not the clie doing it.

Again .... until PalmOS 5, Palm has no form of actual multitasking.

RE: Multi-task palm machine?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/26/2002 12:41:30 AM #
actually, until OS 6.
RE: Multi-task palm machine?
nuopus @ 6/26/2002 1:40:39 AM #
"actually, until OS 6."

I stand corrected. Thank you.


RE: Multi-task palm machine?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/26/2002 2:11:15 AM #
Hi, guys:

Thanks for all the info!

Game boy emulation

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/26/2002 2:46:40 PM #
What I wonder, looking at the 66MHz CPU, how does Liberty run on this device, and what is it's 'Benchmark' (the program) score?
RE: Game boy emulation
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/26/2002 3:08:20 PM #
Running Game Boy games through Liberty would be one reason I'd upgrade to this new machine... but like many others - I'll wait for the OS5 machines... not long now!

//killah_fury

RE: Game boy emulation
torkildr @ 9/24/2002 10:04:34 AM #
I own a T675C which I believe is the European version of the T665C. The benchmark program reports 298% :-)

Battery life T665 vs. NR70

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/28/2002 3:19:11 AM #
I don't get it. Sony lists the battery life of both the T665 and NR70 as being 10 days (qualified as 30 mins. of PIM per day). However the tests of Palminfocenter rates the T665 as being only 3 hours 5 minutes non-stop use while the NR 70 manages 4 hours 40 minutes (both on half backlight). What gives?
RE: Battery life T665 vs. NR70
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/28/2002 3:32:10 AM #
RE: Battery life T665 vs. NR70
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/28/2002 2:58:42 AM #
3hours+ ..its continue using.
10Days+ its sony lying.

Does anyone know when this is available in the in the UK ?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/3/2002 12:48:17 PM #
Any information would be grateful. I'm a Palm addict and have just sold my N770C... I really need the T665C...

//killah fury

RE: Does anyone know when this is available in the in the UK ?
Lfh @ 7/29/2002 6:34:00 AM #
Hi Killah I am in the UK and I have managed to get one through www.clieuk.co.uk they have it for £300 including shipping, all requests to Sony Europe have drawn a blank about availability

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with Ketchup
RE: Does anyone know when this is available in the in the UK ?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 9:44:52 AM #
As with the T615C (T625C), Sony will rebadge the T665C and sell it as the T675C. It should be available this month (September).
I don't know, but would be interested to know, what the differences are between the T665C and T675C at least from technical and support perspectives.
Why do I want to know? Because the T675C will retail at £349 as opposed to a retail price of $400 for the T665C. At least one UK site reckons they can provide the T665C for £269 including VAT. I can't find the T625C for less than that.

T665C OS

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/8/2002 9:03:42 PM #
Hi,

Anybody know that where can I get T665C OS update? I would like to change my T650C to english OS.

Thank you...

RE: T665C OS
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 8:44:58 AM #
Also I WANT TO KNOW!!!!
If someone know if the Sony PEG-T665C can be change to english operative system, please SAY ME!!
Thank U ver MUCH!

Email me, please, to:
pbozzolo@yahoo.com

Remote Access Capability - MODEM ???

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/15/2002 7:42:46 PM #
Ed,

It was great to be able to read your thorough review of the 665. I came VERY close to buying one today until no one at Sony ( contacted two 800 numbers and the Sony On-Line assistant) or our local stores could come up with a modem for this device. UNBELIEVABLE !!
For some one that is a road warrior, like myself, what is the point of a $400 PDA if it can not receive and send e-mail remotely? I currently have a HandSpring Visor Deluxe. The Sony would offer me a MUCH improved screen res. plus the capability to listen to music while flying instead of the crying babies and the ability to take photos of customer products. I can even deal with the lousy battery life since there is a car battery adapter but, without a modem or a 3rd party modem I can not justify the expense.

When are the OS5 devices due to hit the shelves?
Should I wait to see what Sony will offer? Will they be smart enough to offer a modem with OS5?

carol_neeley13@hotmail.com

Battery Life of Clie T665

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/20/2002 9:18:14 PM #
Don't you dare call me a spoiled brat! Although I am 13 I do own one of these and I purchased it with my own money. Everybody is complaining about battery life of it. I agree. It does have a low battery life, buyt there are so many opportunities to charge it. I use it for hours a day, all I have to do is charge when I sleep, you people do sleep right? What harm is there charging it then? it's not you'd be using anyway. Plus, during the day there are many charging opportunities. These include meal times( who wants to splatter on their $400 "toy" ), while your working ( you do need a real pc for that, don't you?) , or if your out shopping ( how could you be dependent on it to the point of putting a shopping list on it?). Furthermore, it has quick charging intervals. It fully charges in about in hour and I'm sure that you aren't staring at it all day.

T665 vs. T615

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/30/2002 1:50:53 PM #
I am very impressed this these two line of clie handhelds. I don't think that I really care for the MP3 player capability. Besides that is there any other reasons for me to spend and extra $100US and go with the T665.

I actually really want to know whether there is a difference is screen quality and brightness in the two model.

RE: T665 vs. T615
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/12/2002 2:02:00 AM #
The biggest difference is speed. While the 615 is 33MHz, the 665 is 66MHz. Also, the 665 has a WHITE backlight, so the color display looks better under low light than the 615 does.

Internet Capable?

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/2/2002 11:16:43 AM #
Hi, I'm actually going to be getting the PEG-T665c in a couple of days.
I've done a ton of research, and want to know if the T665c can surf the internet using a cell phone as the modem?
I'm a student, so being able to check my e-mail anywhere around campus would be a big help, but its not a deal breaker. If anyone can tell me, e-mail me:
al_coholic7771@hotmail.com

Thanks!

Battery Life

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/3/2002 7:51:57 PM #
I love my T615. If it goes out, I plan to purchase a T665. One of the first periperals I bought was a cradle (which included the charger) for my computer at work. My next purchase was an AC charger to charge it overnight when out of town. I have never lost power! and I use it constantly. I ride the bus to and from work and thoroughly enjoy games, reading and taking notes.

I bought my CLIE for the DISPLAY. Just hold it side by side with a Palm. On the Palm, you can see the pixels. On the CLIE, it takes a magnifying glass to see the Pixels. Also, many PDA color displays totally wash out in direct sunlight. I would not use another brand of PDA if someone gave it to me!

Please Help: Sony CLIE PEG-T665C VS PALM 515

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/5/2002 1:52:19 PM #
Hi Guys,

My palm 505 just broke and i went and got myself 515 yesterday as they did not had CLIE PEG-T665C. It still sits unopened in my car. Should i return it and get Clie instead? From the reviews it looks like CLie is a better machine, but i have had palms since original PalmPilot and Sony feels different. Also, we'll i'll be able to Sinc with Outlook? I've heard from some people that i can not intless i buy additional software for $40, is that true?
Thanks for advice.
Alex

RE: Please Help: Sony CLIE PEG-T665C VS PALM 515
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/5/2002 3:16:51 PM #
Personally, I'd take it back. But then again, I do own a T665. ;)

Depends on what you use it for - if you find yourself going days or longer without charging, stick with the Palm. If you make a habit of dropping it in the cradle at night, then the T665 is the way to go. The screen simply BLOWS AWAY anything else out there. The HiRes will change the way you use it forever. And the MP3 playback (even if you don't think you'll use it - you will, trust me) is a very cool feature.

You will be able to sync directly to Oulook with the included Intellisync software. You do not need to buy anything else.

Good Luck!

RE: Please Help: Sony CLIE PEG-T665C VS PALM 515
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/5/2002 5:56:48 PM #
Thanks for reply,

I am carriying several referance books on my palm and use palm basically all the time.
In your experince, does the CLie's 66mhz processor makes a difference in a speed of the information access?
THe other question: durability. the palms starting from V, have been pretty sturdy and resist the damage when dropped pretty well - how does Clie 7665c compare?
Thanks again,
Alex

RE: Please Help: Sony CLIE PEG-T665C VS PALM 515
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/6/2002 5:17:35 PM #
I've got several dictionaries on my 665 and access to all of them is pretty damn fast.

As for being sturdy...well, i haven't dropped mine yet (and i'm not planning to!) but build quality seems very good (as i expect from sony). I've also got a Sony digital camera, and that also is very sturdy and well built. I don't think you'll have a problem! (although you shouldn't really be dropping it anyway)

Perfect for the college student!

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/6/2002 9:11:37 AM #
Ok, today is tuesday, and I got my T665c on friday, so I've had a few days to play around with it. This is my first handheld, but I have to say, I did a ton of research on handhelds before deciding on this one.
I just want to let everyone know DON'T LISTEN TO THE NEGATIVE REVIEWS! This is a very versatile device if you want a handheld to do everyone well, and is perfect for the college student! People complain about battery life, but come on, I think you're asking for a bit much to have a colour hanheld with 320X320 65,000 colour display capable of playing mp3s to run off of rechargable batteries for 2 weeks, BE REALISTIC PEOPLE!
If you need something for travelling get a b/w handheld. But for the rest of us everyday people, especially people like me, I'll take mine to school in the morning, organize my day, jot down quick memos to remind me of things to do, and when i'm in the lab, i can easily start writing up a quick spreadsheet right away to record data. And if I'm studying on campus, i can use this thing to listen to mp3s on the go. I'll be syncing this thing at night when i go to bed, so battery life isn't an issue, just like i don't think its an issue for the common user.

As for the design, I think the buttons are just fine, they don't stick out above frame, so they can't accidently be pressed.

People complain about the stylus, I think you guys are on crack. How can you have a large stylus, and yet stored into a handheld that's only 5 in. long?

I love the jog dial on the side, I'm left handed, and it's not even an issue. I hold it in my right hand, and manipulate the jog dial with my middle finger, it's very easy!

This is a super machine, and I think sony really hit the nail on the head with a very stylishly designed, powerful handheld, I can't wait to purchase a 128 meg memory stick.

I'm gonna be the most stylish boy on campus now! Thanks sony! LOL

MagicGate Memory Stick required

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/19/2002 8:25:40 PM #
I just purchased the T665 from Dell.com, with a 128MB memory stick... unfortunately, the MS I bought does not support this "magic gate" technology that is required on the T665 - some sort of encryption that Sony builds in to their mp3 players? Dell's site failed to mention this (they don't even offer the magic gate memory sticks.) So, now I have to decide whether to keep the stick for my camera, or send it back for credit to buy the mg stick. Anyone else have this problem?
RE: MagicGate Memory Stick required
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2002 7:57:07 PM #
Hey, you do not need the MagicGate white memory stick to work with your T665. I am using the purple lexar brand stick I got from dell with no problems. You only need the white stick if you want to encode ATRAC3 music. To add MP3s to the purple stick:

1) make sure your MP3s are encoded at 44.1 KHz
2) the lowest bitrate I found acceptable is 112 kbps
3) Make sure that you have the MS import utility that came on the Clie CD installed on your computer.
4) Put your Clie in the cradle and start the MS Import utility on your Clie (it should say connected to PC on your Clie screen.)
5) Drag your MP3s to the MS Import icon on your desktop and your files will transfer to the memory stick

Note, the above assumes the use of Windows 98 or higher on your desktop/laptop.

Also, MS Import will put other files on your memory stick, such as video clips, documents, ebooks, etc.

Memory Stick socket

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2002 6:07:34 PM #
I am considering upgrading from my Prism to the T665c. I have one question about the memory stick. I remember reading a while back how a portion of the Memory Stick remains exposed (not completly inserted like SD or CF). Is this the case with the T665c, or does the memory stick get completely inserted into the slot?

Thanks.

RE: Memory Stick socket
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2002 7:49:31 PM #
Hi,

On the Sony T665, the memory stick sticks out less than two millimeters. I have been keeping my stick in all the time and I have no problems with it. it has never fell out.

RE: Memory Stick socket
ikke @ 10/12/2002 3:57:10 PM #
i have the t675c same as t665 but europeen model and the memory stick is inserted completly. Doesn't stick out at all.


Battery life is good for 3h50 with full back light.

T665 replacement stylus available in Canada?

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/15/2002 7:37:56 PM #
Just had the T665C ordered from the U.S. Sony vendor (got a friend in the U.S. to make the purchase as the $ conversion rate still works out better in U.S. funds).

In this review, it mentions that the stylus that comes with this model is too small and that a regular-sized one should be purchased. Which Pentopia stylus is the best one to get? (Or are there other brands that are comparable in quality and style?)

Looked at different store sites and web outlets, but can't seem to find one that either delivers to Canada or has them available here.

Any help on this matter would be greatly appreciated...


New Sony T700C...?

martin5kh @ 11/20/2002 2:15:42 AM #
I have heard that Sony will have a new palm called T700C coming out soon. Does anyone know exactly which month or day? What are new features?

Modem

ishore @ 12/18/2002 7:06:32 AM #
Has anyone heard if they are going to have a modem for the T665? I moved from a Palm m515 to the Clie and do not regret it. But miss my communications.

Nice Review

andrewholler @ 1/18/2003 6:50:51 PM #
What a great review. So many great pieces of info and everything I ever could have wanted to know. Thanks for doing the research so I don't have to.

Multi Task...

tdau00 @ 8/12/2003 2:26:56 PM #
Ed,

You mentioned in the updated that audio player and you did stated:
"You can play music in the background while you do other things with your handheld."

I tried to do other task while listen to the music... but no luck.... Could you let me know what
the config or anything so that I can hear music while doing other things with it?

Thanks,
Roy

Where can I find one of these, nowadays? Sony refurb 615s..
ankhank @ 12/5/2003 2:16:28 PM #
I can find refurbished 615s but the reviews of the 665 are compelling.

I moved from a Palm Pilot Professional to a Palm IIIxe to a Visor Edge -- but I'm finally needing better readability.

Mainly I want this to carry reading material around with me.

So -- anyone have a suggestion or pointer to a 665c for sale nowadays, with the necessary extras? Refurbished or used is probably preferable for me.

memory stick Movies

mjsturges @ 8/27/2006 12:09:51 PM #
This is kind of far fetcher but if I could get movies on to the memstick could I watch them using gmovie or kinoma player?

And I heard that you can not put more than a 128MB memstick in. I want to get a 1gig one. will it work?

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