Comments on: Palm Considered Basing Next-Gen OS On Symbian and Linux
In 1999, Palm made plans to rewrite the Palm OS to be based on the Symbian OS but Palm's Board of Directors was opposed to the idea so the deal fell apart. Next, the company strongly considered basing it on Linux. However, the company's lawyers weren't happy about basing a proprietry operating system on one that is open-source so that plan was dropped in favor of developing one from the ground up.
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RE: and this means what?
Your lack of ability to figure that out makes me think you are a troll, a moron, or both.
RE: and this means what?
RE: and this means what?
Firstly, you must be open to a few points that are not very easy to digest when first encountered by folks who are short-sighted, or who haven't been around business long enough to understand:
1) the masses decide what will be popular, not the people on this board. The masses have chosen the Palm IIIx, the m100 and the m105. Not PocketPC. This speaks volumes. This means people want to use their PDAs as organizers, and nothing else. A few high-end people want to store pictures and sounds. That's it. And there's us.....the Palm enthusiasts.
Advantage: Palm & Symbian
Screwed: Microsoft
2) everyone and their mom is going to have a cell phone in the future. Period. End of story. People will discontinue their "Teen Lines", and buy their kids flat-out low-end cell phones, there will be no land-lines, PERIOD. If my grandparents could've called my mother directly and avoided 5 minutes of small talk with my pops, they would've, period. That right there more than doubles the amount of cell phones th eaverage American family has. Any way you look at it, land lines are goners, pure pagers are goners....to explain this further takes too much time, but I'm right.
Advantage: Symbian
Screwed: Palm & Microsoft (no truly effective distribution plan for either)
3) Whoever licenses their operating system to the most/best distributors of cell phones/wireless utilities (future PDAs) will win the war. PERIOD. Whether you realize it or not, Symbian already has a deal with Nokia that will soon make them the ultimate power in the universe. Palm may as well jump on. Microsoft stands no chance. Nobody wants their 20 MB operating system on their cell phone, and nobody wants that Stinger sh*t, either.
Cell phones will be used to make calls, used as an organizer, used to send wireless messages, and in niche markets, as a camera. Not to modify excel spreadsheets or Powerpoint presentations. People will use laptops or tablets for that.
Most of the people here have NO IDEA what is coming. If you want a clue, head over to Nokia.com and click on any other country besides the U.S.
Every country but the US has cell phones that absolutely sh*t on the Treo (and this is coming from someone who wants a damn Treo 270!).
They have higher resolution color screens, operating systems that don't fail, built in cameras, the superior Symbian operating system (which already natively works with all important Microsoft documents).
Symbian combined with Nokia (the world's #1 phone seller) would've been the death of Palm as far as smart phones go. They would've destroyed Microsoft too, only it would've taken longer.
Now, if Palm & Symbian team up with ANYONE, let alone Nokia, it will surely be the death knell of Pocket PC, and the Microsoft phone initiative (whatever it's called).
This stuff is 5 years away, but severe consequences like the ones listed above are years in the making, and that time is NOW.
I can only hope Palm buys Symbian, or joins with Symbian (or even learns from Symbian). I really, really, really hope Palm makes a partnership with Symbian, and so should you.
RE: and this means what?
"Consider-ed", not "is considering".
Well, never mind.
Palm will be in 2nd place in 5 years, while Microsoft will slog along in 3rd place behind Symbian and Palm until they get tired of flushing cash down the toilet.
Sigh.......
RE: and this means what?
Care to make any stock picks for me? Nobody knows what the future holds... only best guesses!
RE: and this means what?
Just check their website for details, it is a quite impressive smartphone ...
Just hoping that Palm is not sleeping either ;-)
RE: and this means what?
Just check their website for details, it is a quite impressive smartphone ...
Just hoping that Palm is not sleeping either ;-)"
Yeah - and Palm OS phones from Handspring, Samsung, and Kyocera are available now - with more advanced models coming this fall from these manufacturers ASWELL AS phones from Palm and presumably others. Don't get me wrong - Ericson and Nokia have the channels to move phones - but they have zero track record/ability to establish a standard OS. Kyocera is currently the no.1 selling smart-phone in the world (admittedly, they haven't had any real competition until now...). Palm OS is a huge advantage because it is the one PDA OS that most of the planet knows. For Ericson and Nokia to move Symbian phones (beyond just one-time hits because of a particular units 'cool' form-factor) they need to push the idea in the mind of the public that these devices can offer what has traditionally been considered desktop functionality. They need to help push software development so that users have selection of apps/games to choose from - NOT just whatever crap peoples service providers let them have (i.e. the lame WAP approach that lost so much $$$ for so many companies). Yes - there is a lot of Sybian OS app development going on - but it's not even close to the scale of PalmOS or even PPC development in terms of numbers.
If Palm OS 5 had come out a year ago - I don't think there would be much don't that they would be a shoe-in to win this race. But as it is - when all factors are considered - i'm pretty hesitant to pick any of these horses as the clear winner at this early stage.
RE: and this means what?
I didn't hold off buying a PC just because XP was just around the corner - I know I can upgrade.
The same applies to OS5
RE: and this means what?
You know the way people see an OS on a phone, it's transparent ...... why should I care !? Yeah it should be transparent, and hell they runs java apps. Most people don't even care if they can compose ringtone on their phone, so why would they even care for apps.
You don't need to wait long, maybe just another 12 months to see Symbian taking over the Smartphone world. Well unless one day Sony wakes up and breakup with Ericsson and start making palm OS phone, otherwise you'll need to wait for hell to freeze over in order for palm to really get into the smartphone business. Coz all those so called Smartphone makers of PalmOS sux big time right now, Samsung is clueless, hHandspring is even more clueless, and that CDMA phone maker don't even bother.
RE: and this means what?
BTW If Palm joins with Symbian and the result is a successful product micro$oft will be sh*tting in their pants. If that happens the only good thing M$ will be known for is computer hardware
--(
RE: and this means what?
Now, for the fun part.....the dirty little secret is that apparently you CAN actually get those phones to work here in the U.S., *if* you've got a friend at VoiceStream, Cingular, or AT&T Wireless (GSM version) that will activate a GSM account for you on another phone, and allow you to use that SIM card. Remember, in every country BESIDES the United States, many people have multiple phones, and simply swap SIM cards depending on what they're doing (ie Camping, Business, etc.)
There are even a couple of people out there who have bought Unlocked Treo 270s and gotten them to work on AT&T's GSM network.
Just some food for thought.
Too bad
RE: Too bad
I think it was better when i didn't know they had considered this. :)
RE: Too bad
Palm was going to beat out PocketPC anyway. Now it looks like they'll have competition from Symbian too. Either way, PocketPC is a goner, and so is Palm if they don't hurry up a find a way to get their operating system in a LOT of good products QUICKLY.
These things can't be like the Treo....they need to be like NexTel, Nokia, etc., and be available at every retailer, every street corner, every outhouse, penthouse, doghouse, Best Buy, etc.
I've YET to see the Treo 180 at anywhere other than CompUSA and ONE Best Buy (of the 3 I live near).
Read the rant that is a few subjects up.
RE: Too bad
Exactly. The Symbian consortium is formidable. Palm made the right first steps in seperating its OS business from its hardware business - but it needs to do much more in the way of involving liscensees in the process of maintaining and extending the OS - thus benefitting from the extra resources. Though Kyocera and Samsung are important - they need support from more Telco/Cell manufacturer companies. And they also need to convince Sony to hedge its smartphone bets by also putting out a phone based on Palm OS (i believe Samsung currently has plans for phones based on all 3 OSs - so why can't Sony also put out a Palm phone?).
RE: Too bad
PalmOS has a sizeable market share in smart phones already, so I'd say they are far from "screwed". So far it looks like this for the two leading wireless phone tech: CDMA + PalmOS, GSM + Symbian.
RE: Too bad
For a full list of disclosed licensees, see http://www.palmos.com/licensees/.
--
CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com
RE: Too bad
Gordon from Edinburgh
*Palms don't grow on palmtrees, they get washed up on Palm Beach*
How could Palm write a new OS from scratch?
Additionally, the decision to emulate on the new hardware could make Palm irrelevant. Think about it, I can run PalmOS programs on a PocketPC if I have a PalmOS ROM image from any of my Palms. I can run any PalmOS programs on a Zaurus too.
RE: How could Palm write a new OS from scratch?
And a Mac can run almost any software written for Windows in emulation mode, right? But that's certainly not going to make Microsoft irrelevant.
Just my $0.02.
====
Boze
====
Palm CAN write a new OS from scratch, ndeed !
The problem is no one so far has noticed yet.
I am looking forward to see it happne anytime ;-)
RE: How could Palm write a new OS from scratch?
RE: How could Palm write a new OS from scratch?
PPC emulation runs within the PPC OS. Palm OS 5 PACE emulation is as low level as you can get - it has the OS 4.1 API written in native ARM. When OS 5 comes out, not only will older apps run faster on a OS 5 device with comparable processor, then on an equivalent PPC device, but you will really notice a difference when we begin to see apps that use Armlets (if PPC emulators even attempts this). No question - OS 5 devices will run faster (there isn't much guessing in such speculation either - its an easy conclusion based on the specs). And OS 6? When Palm OS moves entirely to native ARM apps, PPC emulation will be completely irrelevant - remember, you need a device that is many times faster in order to do decent emulation - and that will no longer be the case.
RE: How could Palm write a new OS from scratch?
RE: How could Palm write a new OS from scratch?
RE: How could Palm write a new OS from scratch?
The AMX kernel used in the 68K-based OSes was from Kadak, but all the user-visible code has always been Palm, so porting to a new kernel isn't too difficult.
--
CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com
RE: How could Palm write a new OS from scratch?
Could be interesting. If it could be accomplished, then anyone with a IPAQ could buy a OS upgrade from Palm (just like 4.0) and turn their bloated handheld into a sexy, sleek palm powered device.
-J-
RE: How could Palm write a new OS from scratch?
(screen accelerator, I/O driver, buttons, audio system, etc.)
Palm OS 5 on PPC hardware
--
CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com
RE: How could Palm write a new OS from scratch?
Linux encounter such difficulties in the early days before iPAQ.
(plus who on earth wanna have PALM on handheld anyway? Linux would be much a much cooler ARM hack than running a single thread OS like Palm. Not to mention it has reliable Palm OS emulator already running.)
RE: How could Palm write a new OS from scratch?
--
"Life is what you experience between racing games"
Galley
RE: How could Palm write a new OS from scratch?
So, cross yer fingers....
RE: How could Palm write a new OS from scratch?
Palm bought Be for its engineers, not its OS. OS 6 will look like an updated version of OS 5, not Be OS. Palm already has the most successful handheld OS in the world, hands down. Switching to a failed one would be a serious mistake, no matter how much it appeals to a few of us geeks.
RE: How could Palm write a new OS from scratch?
RE: How could Palm write a new OS from scratch?
Nope, sorry buddy. PocketPalm, the only Palm OS emulator for the PPC supports the original DragonBall processor.
From the Readme:
You need a copy of a Palm ROM to make the emulator work. You must rename the ROM file as “palm.rom” and store it in the root directory (\) of your PocketPC. The following ROMs are supported in this version: OS 1.0, OS 2.0 - 2.02, OS 3.0 to 3.52 (only for DB devices, non EZ and VZ like Palm III).
It is able to display 1 bit 160x160 screen and cannot emulate color in any way. While the IrDA and serial code are complete (not USB) they still need quite a bit of work to run reliably.
I don't want to sound like an ass**** while correcting the original poster's statement I hate it when people give blatently wrong information is the basis for part of the forum discussion.
Peace,
-Bartman007
The suits, not the geeks
That's one of the things I think really blows about the tech business: you can have the greatest technical talent on Earth but the product can still suck because the suits have override power. (and usually 1/8 the brain cells)
RE: The suits, not the geeks
1/8 the brain cells, 7/8 of the $$.
The suits are right this time
RE: The suits, not the geeks
RE: The suits, not the geeks
I don't know enough about Symbian to have a technical point of view, but wouldn't that basically be handing over the PDA OS market to Symbian? A similar argument could be made for another good base for a PDA OS choice like QNX. Pretty easy to see why the suits would make those choices.
Now, they own BeOS, and that's a nice OS there for the taking. Hopefully, they've been making good use of it.
RE: The suits, not the geeks
It was designed for 286 with less than 1Mb space. iPAQ sure as heck is several hunndred times more powerfull than that.
(if you are speaking of UI, it's a matter of evolving design we are only at first generation PDA UI in Linux)
RE: The suits, not the geeks
All of the current Linux PDAs have power and performance issues. Linux was not designed for a PDA. Does it even work on a 286 any more? Add in the legal and open source issues and that makes it a poor choice for PDAs.
Slow News day?
must be a really slow news day...
can we at least paraphrase some never before seen technical white paper instead of a B-rated blogger opinion piece? Paraphrasing a recycled material would make one incredibally stale news.
RE: Slow News day?
must be a really slow news day...
can we at least POST some never before seen INTELLIGENT COMMENTS instead of a B-rated blogger opinion piece OF CRAP COMMENT? REPLYING WITH A SELFRIGHTEOUS ATTITUDE would make one incredibally[sic] stale REPLY.
Hah!
It's also interesting that Sharp has no qualms about using Linux in
a PDA (the excellent -- and frustrating -- Zaurus).
Let M$ write it for the new processors
Old news, and so
RE: Old news, and so
RE: Old news, and so
RE: Old news, and so
Lol, I see that like myself, someone has read too much www.mosr.com (MacOS Rumors) The "Apple PDA" has been toted ever since the Newton was killed.
There were talks of Apple buying Handspring. There have been Photoshoped pictures of the "Apple PDA" running "OSX Lite". The closest it has come to being a reality was with the iPod. There was buzz all over the internet about Apple dev teams playing around with a small device that had an LCD screen. Most people assumed this was a pda.
Apple, if you are going to release a pda, I'll consider it, even though I switched to the Dark Side (PC) Just let my flashed Clie 710c finish its life first =)
Peace,
-Bartman007
just be POSIX/UNIX compatible
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and this means what?
OS 5 will be a little jump that will get hardcore, early buyers to buy the units. But the person on the street will see no need, they will stay with cool outside items like the Clie line or lower price units with the older OS.
OS 6 may be cool, but any time you tell the world that you are releaseing a product that is a stepping stone to a better product. The fence sitters remain on the fence and upgrade units are not bought till the new OS shows. That is, unless the competition releases something new and real. Which us being Palm OS users will think a update to the .Net handheld OS is nothing special, but we alone do not support the future of the Palm OS, rather the masses that want to be told what to buy. M$ has not problem telling them that their way is the only way.
Just my thoughts... and yours?