Comments on: Rumor: Additional Pic and Details on the Palm Tungsten T

And so are the Nokia 8855...etc

Tony

If you look closely at the picture, it looks like there is a power switch on the top left side of the PDA (it doesn't look like the IR port to me). If that is the case, then I feel better about the slide.

Although I'm going with a Palm, I long for the higher resolution and virtual graphiti of the Sony. The rest of the Sony I can live without especially that proprietary memorystick slot.

Palm has the ISV support - for now. They need to work to ensure that remains true, and they also need some better design engineers - particularly ones with some consumer electronics experience. The sliding thing sounds neat, but it's definitely not a feature worth paying extra for.

Ick

Ick

There was only one defect looking at the Dell specs, and that defect is Windows. A big minus for the majority of handheld users, but a plus for a few...

Haven't we heard "this is the end of Palm" dozens of times before? Has it ever been right? Don't think so.

Yes, the rumored Dell entry is an incredibly impressive feature set for that price. Yes, the Palm is probably overpriced compared to the Dell and the Sony NX series.

BUT, you've got to also take into account that the rumored Dell specs place it among the bigger PPC's. Toshiba's got more appeal than this when it comes to size, and the Toshiba still seem significantly bigger than the Palm flagship models.

You've also got to take into account battery life. If the Tungsten delivers here, the name, the slider, and the lack of soft graffiti will mean much less to people.

Consider availability. Will I be able to SEE a Dell at a store, or will it be available only via mail order?

How about portability? You're more likely to see someone carrying their m505, flaws and all, than to see someone lugging around a PPC, despite its impressive hardware.

I'm not saying the Tungsten is going to be a definitive winner, but it's a bit premature to label it a sure loser based on a few rumors. And it's downright insane to rehash the "Palm is dead" argument based on ONE device.

Everyone likes toys, but the average Palm consumer is probably not going to require stuff like built-in cameras and flash memory expansion slots when making a purchasing decision."

---> I was the guy complaining about the 144 mHz processor vs. 175 mHz but I think I was justified and your argument fails to hold water.

Why?

The average consumer does not buy a $450-500 Palm with the latest OS, they buy the m130 or Zire. The Tungsten T is targeted right at us, the power users and early adopters. What does Palm OS 5 offer? Not much difference frankly in PIM functions, OS look or feel, and the built in apps. What it does offer is the POTENTIAL of multimedia, something the old units and old hardware couldn't. So someone who is buying a Tungsten T likely is going to want to play MP3's, play new modern games (maybe Quake like on the Pocket PC), some video, tape voice etc. These things require ever increasing horsepower and you can bet the difference between 144 mHz and 175 mHz and 200 mHz will be noticed in those applications (note I didn't say core OS functions.) Further if I know that they could have slammed a 300 or 400 mHz processor in there and still made a profit it makes me even more frustrated, because the high powered hardware is EXACTLY why you are buying a new Sony or Palm, because that IS what OS 5 is all about. If you want to run PIM applications, and play Bejewelled then keep your OS 4.1 unit but me... I want the promise of OS 5 and what it has to offer, which is multimedia, and already Palm is charging premium price for lack of the high powered horsepower their conversion to ARM/RISC processors promised in the first place.

This isn't a flame, but saying that mHz doesn't matter in the new OS 5 units is niave.

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615.

Palm isn't trying to go for the "biggest and best" here. They probably figure they can't compete with Sony for that title anyway, considering the 3 month production schedule those nuts in the Sony labs seem to be on. In Palm's eyes, 144 (or whatever) Mhz is still over twice the processor they've ever been able to talk about before, and it should be more than sufficient for anything their first few models will try to do.

Good question, but they would need to restructure their entire pricing lineup on all models. I think the primary reason is to recover some of the research and development cost. But, can you imagine if they released the Tungsten T at $300? There would be a *hugeP rush for this device. And after all those years of work, and finally getting up to 21%, the PPC market would collapse.

The Tungsten T is going to use the OMAP1510 processor and built-in DSP chips. I believe most multi-media applications should take advantage of the DSP chips for fast performance and yet power-savings. So it's probably not fair to judge by simply looking at the CPU hertz.

Tony

I am sure the Palm apps will fly on either machine, but OS 5 is about multimedia for the first time and video, MP3's etc. will all need the horsepower. So will more advanced games etc. What makes it worse is the 300 mHz XScale processor in the new Dell only clocks in at $199 vs. the $450+ for this unit.

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615.

Anyway, as I understand it, PalmOS 5 is supposed to use the full capabilities of the new chips.

You might also consider that Palm might use a lower mhz to conserve battery life. Lest we get the vaunted 5 hours Sony announced for the NX series...with the backlight OFF!

Also, how different is the architecture of an ARM core used in PPC to those used for PalmOS 5? You hear of people sticking Linux on their PPC handhelds. Could we buy a Dell or Toshiba PPC and somehow put Palm OS 5 on to it? Just a sudden though -- probably far more complex than it initially appears!

Would be interested in other people's thoughts.

FBN

EU Cars are more expensive in the US than in Europe and the same car is cheaper than both Here in Dubai…

Yes they will. Then they will look for someone to show them how to use it. Then they will get tired of extra complications and leave it at home. I know from experience. PPC2002 runs loads better than did WinCE, but it's still Windows and is still more complex than it needs to be. One of those new users is on his second PPC after almost a year, and it still takes him a good ten seconds to even pull up how much free memory he has on his handheld.

We're at an intersting point in history. It seems like what the world wants in hardware, PPC has it. But what the world wants in an OS, Palm has it. You can upgrade and develop new hardware, but do you think MS will ever drop Windows in favor of Palm OS? I don't think so either.

So do we choose between the really fast car, or the not quite so fast car that's more expensive? Logic dictates that we go with the faster/cheaper solution, and we are usually happy with our choice... until we go to get into the car by turning the key, flipping the mirror out of the way, rolling down the window, and climbing inside. No problem, we can master this with practice...

OS5 models are only going to excite geeks like us who follow this stuff. And anecdotal evidence along the lines of "two of my friends went for PPC because it plays mp3s and was only $249 on Amazon" is hardly marketing stats.

Let's face it, a lot of the PDAs that sell are from REPEAT customers like us who have owned anywhere from 2-15 handhelds in the past 3 years. (Like I said, we're all geeks.) TRUE "new users" still don't want to drop $200 on a PDA--they see it was a useless toy.

This is why I think, as I hold my nose, that the Zire m150 is a good move for Palm. I can't stand the lack of backlight and the 2-button design, but it's still HALF the cost of a $200 PDA, and despite the lack of relative features, Joe Sixpack sees it as a better deal. You may not agree, but that's what he sees.

Yes, the true Bluetooth to Ethernet access points are still too expensive. Hopefully they'll get into the same price range as the 802.11b ones soon.

On a side note, it'd be cool if you could use your PC's Bluetooth keyboard for the Tungsten. =)

_____
Fammy

Fred

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Originally posted by cecina
The pictures of the HP/iPaq 5400 model looks exactly the same as the 802.11 & BT model shown at microsoftmobiles.com
http://microsoftmobiles.com/phones/...cdma/index.html

Will all models have BT=Bluetooth?

Anyone?
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Yes, Microsoftmobiles.com got those pictures from Brighthand. As far as I know all future iPAQs will have Bluetooth.
__________________
Founder and Publisher
Brighthand

"There are 2 kind of people my friend....those with wires and those without"

Secondly, "size" is more than just "thickness." Y'know, "L x W x H," as the previous poster pointed out. The Toshiba e330 has a thickness that rivals the m5xx series, but it's still bigger. The Tungsten adds W but subtracts H. Sony did this with the SL and SJ models, but I didn't hear anyone griping about that. Why gripe about it for the Palm?

One final plea: can we get people to stop making statements like, "If can make with , it'll be the end of Palm?" First, it usually centers on a feature the WRITER wants, which means they make the assumption that what they want is what everyone wants. Second, it endorses the faulty logic that there exists some magical device that, if Sony/Toshiba/HP/whoever ONLY INTRODUCED THIS, they would destroy Palm and have total control of the handheld market FOREVER! It simply doesn't work this way.

wanna bet that this quarter Palms market share at $399 will be below 2% if they are lucky?

what happen after the $299 machines like viewsonic, E330, or Dell comes out? after $199 Dell?

that's right at every single price bracket there will be only PPC or Sony left. While palm can only sell something at price range where there is no competition. Ie. Sub $199.

Handspring? As if anybody still remember that company in handheld industry by now. It's dead. (or euphemistically called changing product strategy)

Not the best solution for some people, but only time will tell if it works for enough. I would suggest that if the slider functions well, the battery life is good, the extra functionality of OS 5 is solid, and the unit in general performs well, you'd have to be dead set on virtual graffiti to argue that lack of it is a deal-breaker.

Some Palm devices have a dedicated graffiti area while some provides a virtual graffiti area. It allows uses to have more choices and vendors to have differentiations.

FBN

Fine tuning OS across all chips like that are very difficult. SO far nobody has for sure answer if OS 5.0 support anything beyond the standard ARM V.5 codes on all those chips.