Rumor: Additional Pic and Details on the Palm Tungsten T

Palm Tungsten T - Click for Larger ImageIn what possibly confirms the earlier information about the Palm Tungsten T, a German Computer Catalog has published a picture and details on the upcoming model.

Palm recently announced all of its high-end products will be part of the Tungsten line. Its new smartphone will be called the Tungsten W and there is also the Tungsten MIM Solution a wireless email and groupware access suite.

While I don't, Sprechen Sie Deutch, some facts can be ascertained from the image. The picture confirms that it is based on the Oslo prototype, just like the image. This features a sliding bottom part which alternately covers and exposes the Graffiti area, allowing the handheld to be very small when closed or let user enter text when open.

The ad also confirms some of the earlier leaked specs. The Tungsten T will have a 320x320 pixel screen, built in Bluetooth 1.1, 16MB of RAM, Palm OS 5 and an ARM processor. According to rumor, the Tungsten T will use the TI OMAP1510 processor, which combines into a single chip an ARM-compliant processor with a DSP for multimedia capabilities, and runs at 175 MHz. The picture indicates a clock speed of 144mhz, which could possibly be a misprint. The unit also has an SD/MMC expansion slot.

Both Palm OS 5 and the OMAP1510 chip have multimedia support built in and, according to anonymous sources, the Tungsten takes full advantage of it. It has a microphone, headphone jack, and a speaker.

It is approximately 4 by 3 by .6 inches (102 x 75 x 15 mm) with the sliding part closed and 4.8 inches (122 mm) tall with it open. If this is correct, when closed this model will be slightly smaller than Sony's SJ series, which is 4.1 by 2.9 by .7 inches. Previous rumors spot it at 5.6 ounces.

Todd Bradley, CEO of Palm's Solutions Group, said his company would be launching a handheld that runs Palm OS 5 on October 28. It is widely believed this is the model he is referring to.

The Tungsten T already appears in the inventory system of a major electronics retailer, which says it will cost $500, though this isn't necessarily correct. The German Catalogue displays a price of 649 Euros, which is approximately $640 USD. Electronics are typically more expensive in Europe than their US equivalents.

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Still unsure

Foxer @ 10/14/2002 12:05:04 PM #
Well, it looks kind of cool, but I still don't know about the sliding thing. I think that it would get kind of annoying, but thats just me. I guess that i'll just have to see it in person.
It is also a little more expensive than I had originally thought. Basically this will put it in the same range as the new sony. It does have built in BT which is nice though.
I'm still debating on which new PDA to get, between the compaq PPC, the NX70v, or this new palm. Right now i'm leaning more towords the Sony, just because of the 'coolnes' factor I guess, but it also has the multimedia capabilities that i like, and the nice screen. Anyway, those are just my thoughts. I'll just have to hold out a couple more weeks untill I can see and compare them in person.

RE: Still unsure
Palmcicle @ 10/14/2002 12:19:38 PM #
I am also hesitant because of the sliding mechanism. The story states that the Tungsten will 'take full advantage' of the new miltimedia capabilities...I wonder if it will have a native Mpeg player. I am ready for movies on the fly.

Phew! Whats that smell!?! Did someone Zire in here? Buy Palm's only a nickle.
RE: Still unsure
asiayeah @ 10/14/2002 1:10:05 PM #
The sliding mechanisms reminds me of some models of the Nokia Mobile Phones. Some of its high-end, executive models do charge people a high premium for a sliding cover of the numeric keypads.

One model even provide a sliding cover that will slide out gradually itself by simply pressing a button.


RE: Still unsure
asiayeah @ 10/14/2002 1:19:37 PM #
The Nokia 8910 is the model I was talking about.

And so are the Nokia 8855...etc


RE: Still unsure
Taqi @ 10/14/2002 1:55:19 PM #

I am still in the grey zone!

I want to get my daughter a Palm (we home's_COOL!)

I have my M505 and I would like to give it to her but I want a PDA with Blue tooth, Sony would have it if they just had Blue tooth, I think the only thing blue about Sony is the blueness of my face as I wonder why they did not put blue tooth in!

Tungsten T
Sliding bits and pieces, can you imagine, your at your friends, they all want to have a look, you can't ersist, you don't want to be rude you let them play with it and then oops, the sliding bit has just gone, "Gee sorry...."

I just remembered WHY these things fail! I used to have a Psion 5mx, and it had a sliding key board in clamshell design. When you opened it both the screen and the key board kid of slid out. To make that work they had a connection to the screen which would elongate and roll up for the wirse going to the screen. I used it daily and after 1 and a half years the screen stopped working. I went to a psion Engineer and told him about the problem and he said that this was a well known problem and the frequent opening and closing of the machine caused the wire to wear out and the only solution was to replace the entire screen at the cost of 150 pounds (240 dollars)... that's when I switched to Palm!

Now you could be really cynical and say that PALM KNOWS the sliding mechanism is going to break in one years time, by which time they will release their next product, the guarantee runs out and you have a choice, spend 250 dollars and repair lasy years technology or just spend a bit (few hundred - what's that between friends) and keep the LATEST SCREAMING PALM!

Did somebody mention something about XS profits somewhere?

I think Palm will go down the tube, I really wanted them to succeed, but I think the Sony designers may still be on the Sony payroll ("You must give them an excellent design, just don't tell them it will break in three months." secret meeting with Sony CEO They replied in unison "By your command")

So where to now? PPC? The thought makes my heart bleed but the thought is beginning to germinate in my head again...I hope Palm don't have idiots in their marketing think tank and they release the Tungsten T for reviews at least a week early so we cn be armed with info......a hope....

"Subaa huti hai shaam hut hai yuhee zindagii tamaam huti hai" (Urdu)

"Mornings arrive, evenings arrive and thus life comes to an end"

RE: Still unsure
Altema @ 10/14/2002 2:26:57 PM #
I'd have to see the sliding mechanisim before deciding on reliability. I have other devices that flip and slide with no problems. One is my Nokia 7160 phone. Although a better modem than it is a phone, it gets pretty brutal treatment and has never failed or given me problems despite the microphone being in the sliding part. On the other hand, my Sony phone broke last night after hitting the carpet, and it has NO moving parts except for the buttons.

RE: Still unsure
alexp @ 10/14/2002 3:14:23 PM #
I think "wait and see" is a good policy on this one. It's a bit knee-jerk to assume that the slider makes for a broken PDA waiting-to-happen. People said the same thing about the twist screen on the Sony NR series (although ironically, the *hinge* appears to have created some problems with creaking).

Heck, if you try had enough, you can imagine dozens of things breaking in a PDA, so I wouldn't assume that the slider will be the "make-or-break" (pun intended) feature.

RE: Still unsure
fleegle @ 10/14/2002 3:21:55 PM #
The failure of the sliding mechanism affecting the operation of the Tungsten T depends on how it is used. If the sliding mechanism is used to turn on the unit, then there is high potential of making the PDA unusable. If it is a cover for the graffiti area, then it would only be a hassle if the slide didn't lock in place.

If you look closely at the picture, it looks like there is a power switch on the top left side of the PDA (it doesn't look like the IR port to me). If that is the case, then I feel better about the slide.

RE: Still unsure
djpedro @ 10/14/2002 3:36:04 PM #
What I don't get is how people try to deciding between the Sony and Palm decry the Palm for having a slider, while the Sony OS 5 PDA turns and twists all over the place. I also don't get how worries about a sliding mechanism warrants not buying the machine. If you are worried about the slider, don't slide it. That simple. It won't wear out that way. Problem solved. :)

RE: Still unsure
somas1 @ 10/14/2002 4:06:50 PM #
If you are unsure about the slider, wait til this product drops in price and buy a 99$ compusa warranty. They will repair your palm after the mechanism wears out. (Accidents and wear and tear are covered under their warranty)

RE: Still unsure
dsm363 @ 10/14/2002 6:05:50 PM #
I'm not sure but I think the same goes if you buy the Best But warranty for 4 years or whatever it is. That should cover the slider part.


RE: Still unsure
savvy @ 10/15/2002 5:31:13 PM #
I've been driving my wife crazy about this for the last few weeks. Sony or Palm, back and forth. So I finally listed out what I truely wanted in a PDA and stacked Sony up against Palm. I took out all "cool" unecessary factors because I know that I won't use them in the long run figuring if I wanted to have an MP3 player the IPod would be a better choice. Even so they stacked up pretty close, but overall the Palm won. Sony would have won if I included the "cool" features that I found useless in my day to day life.

Although I'm going with a Palm, I long for the higher resolution and virtual graphiti of the Sony. The rest of the Sony I can live without especially that proprietary memorystick slot.

RE: Still unsure
anondude @ 10/15/2002 9:58:34 PM #
Somewhere above it was mentioned that Sony does not offer Bluetooth. In fact, they offer a Bluetooth Memory Stick in Japan today. I heard that they will sell it for US$199. I also heard that the designers overlooked that the CLIE flip cover can't fold over the PDA with the Bluetooth stick inserted.

Which catalog did this appear in?

speedracer5 @ 10/14/2002 12:14:22 PM #
Is it known which catalog this appeared in? Just more idle curiousity to do a little searching online. I will agree with the previous poster I am not fond of the slider idea. It is more from the standpoint that usually mechanical parts fail before their electronic counterparts. Beside my M505 has met the floor a few times and survived, I just think the slider mechanism may be less robust from a durability standpoint. If the new Sony didn't waste the space with the compact flash slot and had SD instead of memory stick, I would consider Sony.

You may be a race car driver at heart if you refer to leaving your driveway as "Turn 1"
RE: Which catalog did this appear in?
perdi @ 10/14/2002 12:58:12 PM #
The order-number and the picture background looks like conrad (printed version).


Rough and Weird Translation

skccs @ 10/14/2002 12:22:00 PM #
As a daily reader of PIC I try to translate the article, which might result in not having every vocabjulary in mind:

"The innovative Tungsten T, the handheld of the next generation from palm ist the perfect compagnon for the professional mobile user. Tungsten T delivers a maximum of performance with an minimum of weight. You can work and communicate alwas and everywhere. The clever? slider covers the grafitti-area with the ergonomic 5way-navigator and shortens the handheld to about 10 cm. Thank's to the high-res color-display oft the Tungsten Tworking with microsoft-office-files or with pictures is easier than ever. Using the included bluetooth-technologie, you will be able to communicate wirelessly with compatible devices. Also voice-recorded-files you will be able to store or to transfer (not explained in which way in the original text).

Device includes?:

High-res TFT-Display (320 x 320) and frontlight . Bluetooth 1.1 . Storage Capacity 16 MB . Operating System Palm OS 5.0 . 144 Mhz ARM Processor

Deliverd together with: Pencil, transparent protection cover, USB Dockingstation with Batterycharger and CD-ROM ."

This description seems to be from a non pda-specialized dealer, as some of the specs are missing (like for ex. sd-card-slot).

You'r right ed, in europe the devices are usually more expensive and (sniff) the nx70 has not even been anounced :.-(

Christian Stocker

RE: Rough and Weird Translation
asiayeah @ 10/14/2002 12:54:19 PM #
Thanks a lot for the translation!

> Deliverd together with: Pencil, transparent protection
> cover, USB Dockingstation with Batterycharger and CD-ROM > ."

I believe a stylus is included, instead of a pencil? ;-)


RE: Rough and Weird Translation
skccs @ 10/14/2002 1:34:11 PM #
Yes you're right. Stylus is the right word for it. I'didnt have the time to look it up in an english-german dictionnary. Sorry.

Christian Stocker
RE: More expensive in Europe
Zuber @ 10/14/2002 1:53:00 PM #
>>>You'r right ed, in europe the devices are usually more expensive<<<

It's worth remembering that in Europe we are paying 17.5% VAT. Most countries don't pay anything like that. Taking that into account, I don't think the manufacturers/retailers can be blamed (in most cases).


RE: Rough and Weird Translation
amike @ 10/14/2002 1:58:11 PM #
In Europe, prices are increased about 1.5 times.
So 649Euro may be about 435$....

RE: Rough and Weird Translation
henrik @ 10/14/2002 4:35:27 PM #
Be glad you only have 15.7% VAT. In Sweden we have 25% VAT (sales tax).

RE: Rough and Weird Translation
Gepeto- @ 10/15/2002 2:59:49 PM #
In Quebec, Canada, we have 15.0025% sales tax, plus our money isn't worth ****, and products are not released here very fast, so getting it from usa with shipping makes it 170% of the US sales price... Actually the NR70 was 1000$ when it was released here :(

Shaky contender

PalmusMagnus @ 10/14/2002 12:31:28 PM #
Tungsten|T is a questionable entry into this niche of the handheld market. If the specs and price point of the new Dell PPC are true,

this may be the end of Palm in the enterprise.

RE: Shaky contender
stupidnewpolicy @ 10/14/2002 12:53:39 PM #
I agree that Palm needs to hire some marketing consultants to help them better understand their customer base's desires. Sony obviously has some clue what people are looking for. The Tungsten seems to be a bit overpriced, especially in lieu of the Dell PPC PDA.

Palm has the ISV support - for now. They need to work to ensure that remains true, and they also need some better design engineers - particularly ones with some consumer electronics experience. The sliding thing sounds neat, but it's definitely not a feature worth paying extra for.



RE: Shaky contender
SaabCaptain @ 10/14/2002 1:07:18 PM #
I hope the ad is wrong because it says it will have a 144 mHz CPU as opposed to the 175 mHz CPU we were expecting. While I would never buy a Pocket PC because of the OS it shows that for the $449-499 this unit will cost they could have easily packed in a 300-400 mHz CPU and more RAM based on a $199 Dell with those hardware stats.

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615.
RE: Shaky contender
Altema @ 10/14/2002 1:08:40 PM #
The price point of the new Dell will be the killer feature. It's an old-time method to gain market share at the expense of initial profits. Undercut the competition so bad that they lose their profitability if/when they try to match prices.

There was only one defect looking at the Dell specs, and that defect is Windows. A big minus for the majority of handheld users, but a plus for a few...

RE: Shaky contender
SaabCaptain @ 10/14/2002 1:26:11 PM #
The Pocket PC OS is horrible. But man when you read the HARDWARE specs for $199 you are left gasping... nothing has EVER, EVER come close. Nothing. Take a 300 mHz processor, 32 megs of RAM... put it in a Tungsten T for $199... dear God what a machine that would be. But even for $300-350 it would a steal for the Palm OS, but at $450-500 well... now we are overpriced.

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615.
RE: Shaky contender
alexp @ 10/14/2002 3:21:32 PM #
Blah, blah, blah...

Haven't we heard "this is the end of Palm" dozens of times before? Has it ever been right? Don't think so.

Yes, the rumored Dell entry is an incredibly impressive feature set for that price. Yes, the Palm is probably overpriced compared to the Dell and the Sony NX series.

BUT, you've got to also take into account that the rumored Dell specs place it among the bigger PPC's. Toshiba's got more appeal than this when it comes to size, and the Toshiba still seem significantly bigger than the Palm flagship models.

You've also got to take into account battery life. If the Tungsten delivers here, the name, the slider, and the lack of soft graffiti will mean much less to people.

Consider availability. Will I be able to SEE a Dell at a store, or will it be available only via mail order?

How about portability? You're more likely to see someone carrying their m505, flaws and all, than to see someone lugging around a PPC, despite its impressive hardware.

I'm not saying the Tungsten is going to be a definitive winner, but it's a bit premature to label it a sure loser based on a few rumors. And it's downright insane to rehash the "Palm is dead" argument based on ONE device.

RE: Shaky contender
jayhawk88 @ 10/14/2002 4:06:37 PM #
"Sony obviously has some clue what people are looking for."

To be fair, it's more like Sony has a clue what people who read this site are looking for. I.E., lots of cool-ass features and all the latest technologies. Witness the guy complaining about it maybe only having a 144Mhz processor instead of a 175Mhz.

Everyone likes toys, but the average Palm consumer is probably not going to require stuff like built-in cameras and flash memory expansion slots when making a purchasing decision.

RE: Shaky contender
SaabCaptain @ 10/14/2002 5:38:57 PM #
"... Witness the guy complaining about it maybe only having a 144Mhz processor instead of a 175Mhz.

Everyone likes toys, but the average Palm consumer is probably not going to require stuff like built-in cameras and flash memory expansion slots when making a purchasing decision."

---> I was the guy complaining about the 144 mHz processor vs. 175 mHz but I think I was justified and your argument fails to hold water.


The average consumer does not buy a $450-500 Palm with the latest OS, they buy the m130 or Zire. The Tungsten T is targeted right at us, the power users and early adopters. What does Palm OS 5 offer? Not much difference frankly in PIM functions, OS look or feel, and the built in apps. What it does offer is the POTENTIAL of multimedia, something the old units and old hardware couldn't. So someone who is buying a Tungsten T likely is going to want to play MP3's, play new modern games (maybe Quake like on the Pocket PC), some video, tape voice etc. These things require ever increasing horsepower and you can bet the difference between 144 mHz and 175 mHz and 200 mHz will be noticed in those applications (note I didn't say core OS functions.) Further if I know that they could have slammed a 300 or 400 mHz processor in there and still made a profit it makes me even more frustrated, because the high powered hardware is EXACTLY why you are buying a new Sony or Palm, because that IS what OS 5 is all about. If you want to run PIM applications, and play Bejewelled then keep your OS 4.1 unit but me... I want the promise of OS 5 and what it has to offer, which is multimedia, and already Palm is charging premium price for lack of the high powered horsepower their conversion to ARM/RISC processors promised in the first place.

This isn't a flame, but saying that mHz doesn't matter in the new OS 5 units is niave.

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615.

RE: Shaky contender
sandbuck @ 10/14/2002 6:45:55 PM #
>> The Tungsten T is targeted right at us, the power users and early adopters.

I disagree. Palm has made it clear that their high-end devices are targeted at enterprise users; IT department heads that place orders for tens or even hndreds of PDA's annually.

I am very loyal to Palm OS as a consumer, but completely objective as a businessman. Forced to choose between the Tungsten and the new Dells, Dell would win on price alone, assuming wireless and network connectivity options are as cheap as the base units. I hope Palm is ready to give deep discounts to corporate purchasers, otherwise the Tungsten|T is a non-starter.

RE: Shaky contender
jayhawk88 @ 10/14/2002 11:10:52 PM #
It's true that OS5 is the logical progression of Palms moving to more, better and bigger features, but I still think you're missing the point of what Palm is trying to do. Since guys like Sony and Handspring have been making Palm models, Palm themselves has never been worried about selling to the "geek" crowd. And rather been content to rely on the brand name to drive the "middleware" sales. Whether this was the correct philosophy or not is debatable, and whether they should continue to do this now that the OS is "spun off" is questionable as well. But I do think that this is what you're seeing here.

Palm isn't trying to go for the "biggest and best" here. They probably figure they can't compete with Sony for that title anyway, considering the 3 month production schedule those nuts in the Sony labs seem to be on. In Palm's eyes, 144 (or whatever) Mhz is still over twice the processor they've ever been able to talk about before, and it should be more than sufficient for anything their first few models will try to do.

RE: Shaky contender
SaabCaptain @ 10/15/2002 12:32:33 AM #
So why doesn't Palm sell the unit at a much lower price, still making a profit (as is seen by the fancier but cheaper PPC hardware) and therby make a killing amoung both consumers and enterprise? Instead they give up the consumer to either people who desire very low end, ie. the Zire/m130 or a low cost PPC on the "neato (but sucky OS) high-end" and then lose the enterprise to the low cost Dell units?

If Palm wants to differ themselves why don't they sell the Tungsten T at $299-350 and make a killing in consumer and enterprise space?

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615.

RE: Shaky contender
Altema @ 10/15/2002 2:35:39 AM #
"and therby make a killing amoung both consumers and enterprise?"

Good question, but they would need to restructure their entire pricing lineup on all models. I think the primary reason is to recover some of the research and development cost. But, can you imagine if they released the Tungsten T at $300? There would be a *hugeP rush for this device. And after all those years of work, and finally getting up to 21%, the PPC market would collapse.

RE: Shaky contender
ska @ 10/15/2002 7:34:41 AM #
Microsoft is on the marketshare grabbing mode. They won't let $300 Tungsten goes unanswered, in fact the ViewSonic V35 is already sold at $250 even before shipping. Most probably the new Toshiba E330 will also have to match.

If Palm introduce Tungsten at $199, you can bet there will be a drove of 2-300mHZ low end with 32/64mb ready to answer the price war.

Thus far Microsoft has answer every marketing challange, including interface design complain, size, and now price. All while adding feature for each itteration. Palm hasn't evolve as fast. Palm's product cycle and OS update cycle are simply not fast enough to keep up with Microsoft pace.

RE: Shaky contender
JT @ 10/15/2002 11:34:34 AM #
oh here we go again, as has happened with every Palm released in the last few years, where's this feature, where's that feature, Microsoft does it so much better blah blah. Please give it a rest, I came here to discuss the new Palm, not what anybody else is offering

RE: Shaky contender
Zippy @ 10/17/2002 12:11:48 AM #
Ah man, not another one of those psycho Pocket PC fanatics ranting and raving again. You guys were claiming that Palm was going to die 4 years ago when the latest WinCe abortion came out.
Go back to re-booting your unit and pray that your data is still there...

I hope its not $500

derby @ 10/14/2002 12:40:55 PM #
I really hope the this unit comes in around $400-450. I don't see myself paying more than that for a PDA.

-- derby
RE: I hope its not $500
Bleekerstreets @ 10/14/2002 3:24:58 PM #
well, there are other PDAs out there that wont be 500 bucks...this isnt gonna be the only PDA available.

So here is what they did SPRECHEN...

NoBackup @ 10/14/2002 12:42:03 PM #
Palm Tungsten Handheld

The Innovative Tungsten T, a next generation Handheld from Palm, is the perfect companion for the High-end mobile user. The Tungsten T offers Maximum power with a minimal of weight. You can work and communicate anywhere. The ingenious Slider covers in use the writing area (Graffiti) with an ergonomically designed 5 way navigator and in so doing reduces the handheld to just 10cm. Thanks to the High resolution color screen, work with Microsoft files or the viewing of pictures has never been easier.
Via the integrated Bluetooth technology, it is possible to communicate with other compatible devices. Even Voice recording can be created, saved and transferred.


High resolution Color Screen (320 x 320)
Front Lighting
Bluetooth V1.1
16MB Memory
Palm OS 5.5
144Mhz ARM CPU

Package contents

Main Unit
Transparent Cover (Case)
USB Docking station
Power Adaptor

Size 102 x 75 x 15 (H x W x T)

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