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Comments on: CES 2003 Coverage

CES 2003 CoverageThis article contains PalmInfocenter's coverage from CES 2003 in Las Vegas. All article and announcements from CES will be outlined here. Stay tuned as PIC will have pleny more from CES this week (1/13) as we catch up with announcements and reports from the floor. Click or tap Read Story for more from Las Vegas...
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Pics?

abosco @ 1/10/2003 8:25:35 PM #
Are you planning to post other pictures you've taken? I'm very interested.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3
RE: Pics?
Admin @ 1/10/2003 9:47:44 PM #
I certainly will, check back this weekend for more in-depth reports and pictures from the floor. There is so much to see and cover at CES that it's hard to find time to get the reports out when I would like.

-Ryan

Any news about Palm OS Smartphones?

gfunkmagic @ 1/10/2003 9:50:07 PM #
Ryan,

Great synopsis and very informative coverage of CES! Also, have you seen or heard anything new on the Palm OS smartphone front? Of course there's been stories about the Kyoocera 7135 and SPH-i500, but thoses were annouced long ago. Do have any rumors for us?

Thanx

The 2003 National Championship WAS ROBBED!!! Terry Porter, you suck you freakin REF! OSU STOLE the Chanpionship, period!!

Any comment or intelligence on the Audio Issue?

Operator99 @ 1/11/2003 8:47:33 AM #
Any comment or intelligence on the Audio Issue? Have you seen AND heard the real player? Waiting for the patch is sure getting old? Enjoy the show and keep up the good work!
There is no audio bug on the tungsten
Admin @ 1/11/2003 11:09:52 AM #
By the audio issue I assume you're talking about the tungsten t... There is NO audio issue, this is just a false rumor and I'm not sure how it started. I did ask Palm about it just to be 100% certain and they confirmed there is no issue. I use the aeroplayer on my tung without any quality issues.
RE: Any comment or intelligence on the Audio Issue?
IanJD @ 1/11/2003 11:17:29 AM #
So why is Owen (the Aeroplayer developer) reporting that it's almost ready for release?

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aeroplayer/message/42

RE: Any comment or intelligence on the Audio Issue?
Pinnacle @ 1/11/2003 11:49:51 AM #
You've got to be kidding me...a false rumor?! So your Tungsten T plays back MP3's with full stereo sound through headphones?

I'm seriously not trying to start something here, but if Palm is saying the current state of audio quality through headphones is as good as it gets, they better be ready for a huge backlash from users. Wow.

RE: Any comment or intelligence on the Audio Issue?
Admin @ 1/11/2003 1:15:06 PM #
This is a pretty confusing situation, I'll try to track down a hardware person and ask again....
RE: Any comment or intelligence on the Audio Issue?
IanJD @ 1/11/2003 1:29:47 PM #
Pulling info together, apparently an "engineering build" has been available for some time, presumably to developers only, but only addresses the 4kHz low-pass filter, not the low volume, which seems to be down to the low power output amp. Solutions such as the overdrive in Aeroplayer go some way to getting the most out of the DSP, but will result in clipping of the waveform, hence some distortion.

RE: Any comment or intelligence on the Audio Issue?
Robotica1 @ 1/11/2003 1:46:35 PM #
The amount of conflicting information on the indisputable audio problem is unbelieveable. Palm has mishandled the issue with a degree of neglect reminiscent of the M505 hotsynch debacle. The Realplayer/Palm combination was much touted as a response to the Pocket PC capabilities. Now I've heard on the forums that Palm is trying to lower expectations about the TT's audio based on the pathetic position that it's their first attempt at audio so buyers shouldn't have counted on quality sound in the first place.

Now there are many TT buyers that have come to realize that they really do want the option of playing MP3's and other Hi-Fi formats on their Palm TT. Why shouldn't they feel that way after paying a lot of money for a powerful processor that should be capable of delivering excellent sound?

I've been a loyal Palm hardware user for 4 years, but unless Palm gets their act together, I'll be gone when Sony delivers a small form factor OS5 unit which they undoubtedly will.

RE: Any comment or intelligence on the Audio Issue?
IanJD @ 1/12/2003 5:47:37 AM #
In all fairness, Sony also had sound quality issues with audio playback with the NR; in their case there was an aggravating clicking which they took a couple of months to release a fix for. I think it's worth seeing what Palm do before burning them at the stake.

RE: Any comment or intelligence on the Audio Issue?
datentod @ 1/13/2003 12:35:17 AM #
"So why is Owen (the Aeroplayer developer) reporting that it's almost ready for release?

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aeroplayer/message/42"

Why? Currently all hope has faded. Now I belive with 99% accuracy that the palm "sound" issue was a hoax. Aerodrome software was created in order to lure potential buyers into believing that there could be a fix. Palm, covertly, using corporate-espionage tactics spread the misleading information about some **patch**. I e-mailed Palm and various developers on the issue, neither Palm nor any developers could provide any specific data on the patch. None.


[img]http://www.slbs.net/images/retard.jpg[/img]

---
Do you program in Assembly?" she asked. "NOP," he said.

RE: Any comment or intelligence on the Audio Issue?
datentod @ 1/13/2003 12:57:56 AM #
My nightmare was just confirmed:(

Posted by Aerodrome Software developer -

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aeroplayer/message/137

"From: <owen@A...>
Date: Sun Jan 12, 2003 11:36 pm
Subject: Re: [aeroplayer] Re: Any real hope for sound bug fix from Palm?

We've already commented on this one enough. Nothing new to add."

RE: Any comment or intelligence on the Audio Issue?
IanJD @ 1/13/2003 4:13:00 AM #
Why is this a "nightmare"? You've read the previous comment, presumably?

RE: Any comment or intelligence on the Audio Issue?
IanJD @ 1/13/2003 4:25:04 AM #
"Palm, covertly, using corporate-espionage tactics spread the misleading information about some **patch**."

Aha. You seem to have forgotten to include the flying saucer people in this otherwise well thought out and reasoned argument.

RE: Any comment or intelligence on the Audio Issue?
Take1 @ 1/13/2003 4:55:30 AM #
Sounds like a case for Mulder and Scully!

This secret agent Palm admin stuff is rather silly. If Palm is trying to cover up the crappy audio issue with denials and conspiracy they've got Google, e-mails, Aerodrome software all implicating them with prior admission. This is going to get fixed -- Palm has no choice in the matter at this point.

RE: Any comment or intelligence on the Audio Issue?
McMagnus @ 1/13/2003 7:05:40 AM #
"This is a pretty confusing situation, I'll try to track down a hardware person and ask again...."

Never mind a hardware person. It's quite easy to try it for yourself.

Take an .ogg-song and play it on your PC. Listen with a pair of ear-phones. That's the way it *should* sound.

Now listen to the same .ogg-song in the same ear-phones plugged into your TT. The quality *should* be the same, but it sounds as if you're listening through a telephone line.

If you can't hear the difference, you either have serious issues with your hearing, (no pun intended whatsoever), or you have installed the patch some have mentioned. I have listened to a TT *with* the patch and it sounded flawless. The problem with that version of the patch was that the volume was even lower than before. Judging from the AeroPlayer people, the volume issue seems to have been solved.

RE: Any comment or intelligence on the Audio Issue?
Roberto_tores @ 1/13/2003 7:14:44 AM #
This problem can be easily fixed since it is not hardware related, neither is a limitation of the OS.

Palm Ony has to make a patch to apply the 4k filter only when recording and not when playig back stereo sound.

Other program that is limited due to the issue is Kinoma and other video players, videos are not sounding as rich as thy should.

This is like the SUDs and the M 130 screen if we complain enough Palm will fix it.

RE: Any comment or intelligence on the Audio Issue?
AzureGuy @ 1/13/2003 10:17:55 AM #
Where's Ben Combee? I'm pretty sure he's stated that there is supposed to be a patch...

If Palm is trying to pass this BS on us, hell, I'm taking the Tungsten back and getting a Sony. I'm not gonna put up with this. Their stupid email tech support won't forward my complaints to the proper people, consistantly claiming "Third-pary software may be causing". WTH!!!!! I paid $799 for this "TOP OF THE LINE" handheld, that can't even play AUDIO properly? WHEN IT'S SUPPOSED TO??? They're even blaming third party apps for causing the clicking sound I've noted. And when someone finds a bug in an app (DateBook) PALM WON'T EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE THAT IT IS A BUG AND THANK US FOR FINDING IT. They thing that I need to perform a soft reset... Then maybe a hard reset... ARGH!!!!

I'm gonna phone tech support tonight, and ask them to pass on a message to Palm for me...

------
Palm IIIe - Palm M100 - Palm IIIxe - Palm M125 - TUNGSTEN | T
Palm Powered, and READY TO ROLL!!!

RE: Any comment or intelligence on the Audio Issue?
TobyG @ 1/13/2003 11:03:43 AM #
"By the audio issue I assume you're talking about the tungsten t... There is NO audio issue, this is just a false rumor and I'm not sure how it started."

Despite the fact that I'm not experiencing anywhere near the audio quality problems that some are, it started due to the developer of Aerodrome's Aeroplayer, and the experiences of users.

"I did ask Palm about it just to be 100% certain and they confirmed there is no issue."

Who at Palm said it wasn't an issue? Don't let some PR flack snow you. Remember how Sony's guy implied CNet's memstick story was ridiculous? CNet was proven right by Sony's own press release.

[url]http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=4742[/url]
[url]http://news.com.com/2102-1040-977004.html[/url]
[url]http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=4837[/url]

"Never offend people with style when you can offend them with substance." - Sam Brown

RE: Any comment or intelligence on the Audio Issue?
bcombee @ 1/13/2003 12:26:25 PM #
I don't have any special information about the audio problem with the Tungsten T.

--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com
RE: Any comment or intelligence on the Audio Issue?
Admin @ 1/13/2003 12:34:11 PM #
I am still waiting on the official response from Palm on this, when I know I will post an article on the matter.

McMagnus- I listen to mp3's with aeroplayer often, through the speaker and headphones, and the quality is quite good (nothing like a phone line). I haven't tried an ogg file but I can't see how a different format would make a difference. Games such as Bejeweled play fine through headphones as well. Now... I am not using top of the line headphones and I don't have the ear of conductor...

RE: Any comment or intelligence on the Audio Issue?
Quiet1 @ 1/13/2003 12:37:19 PM #
Magnus,

How and where did you hear this "patched" T|T?

RE: Any comment or intelligence on the Audio Issue?
Altema @ 1/13/2003 12:53:05 PM #
If anyone wants to get to the bottom of this, we simply need to run the output of the TT through a spectrum analyzer and make a quick comparison to the original signal. I have the rest of the gear... anyone want to send me a TT? ;)

RE: Any comment or intelligence on the Audio Issue?
McMagnus @ 1/13/2003 1:17:23 PM #
I did run a spectrum analysis of the output from the TT ~2 months ago. I generated 16 bit 44.1 kHz white noise and played it via the OS function that is supposed to output the sample at 44.1 kHz and 16 bits. But the output spectrum made a dive at 4kHz.

My conclusion at the time was that the TT had a 4kHz low-pass filter on the output, but it turned out to be a matter of down-sampling (to 8kHz and 8 bits I believe).

I posted it here, or in the forum, don't remember.

Quiet1, a local developer had the patch, he didn't say where he got it from, but the TT sounded ok.

RE: Any comment or intelligence on the Audio Issue?
IanJD @ 1/13/2003 1:45:16 PM #
McMagnus - Your original posting and some followup was here, I believe...

http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=4700

RE: Any comment or intelligence on the Audio Issue?
Quiet1 @ 1/13/2003 1:48:36 PM #
Magnus,

When you say local developer would you mean a 3rd party not related to Palm? If so, that's interesting. I wonder if only certain developers only have access to the patch. This local developer creating a new player that is not out yet?

RE: Any comment or intelligence on the Audio Issue?
Altema @ 1/13/2003 2:37:11 PM #
Thanks for the info. Do you recall how much of a drop it was at 5khz?.. 3db, 6db? Also, did you get the sample onto the TT via the voice recorder, or a direct file?

RE: Any comment or intelligence on the Audio Issue?
McMagnus @ 1/13/2003 3:03:00 PM #
No, the local developer co-operated with some company. So, I believe he made some work for one of the three we know of, my guess would be beta-testing.

The sample was transferred to the TT via Card Export, so the microphone was not involved. It was a 16 bit 44.1kHz uncompressed WAV-file and I used an example in PalmSource's OS5 SDK to play it. I routed the output from the head-phone jack to my sound card and sampled it. By then it had lost ~50 dB between 4-5 kHz.

Later, we tried the same setup with the audio patch on his TT and there were no sign of a dip @ 4kHz.

RE: Any comment or intelligence on the Audio Issue?
Quiet1 @ 1/13/2003 8:37:03 PM #
Magnus,

Thanks for the information.

RE: Any comment or intelligence on the Audio Issue?
TobyG @ 1/14/2003 10:50:14 AM #
Just something to keep in mind, folks: anyone who has any more information than has already been revealed is probably under NDA, so I doubt we'll hear much more until Palm SG is ready to release something. Also, FWIW, I'm 99.999% sure that Aerodrome isn't a Palm SG front. ;)

"Never offend people with style when you can offend them with substance." - Sam Brown
RE: Any comment or intelligence on the Audio Issue?
TobyG @ 1/14/2003 9:16:00 PM #
BTW, Aeroplayer beta 6.3 is released. Get it and the latest MP3 plugin, and please post your opinions. Quality keeps getting better. Hmmm...

"Never offend people with style when you can offend them with substance." - Sam Brown
RE: Any comment or intelligence on the Audio Issue?
jgni @ 1/16/2003 11:26:59 PM #
"I am still waiting on the official response from Palm on this, when I know I will post an article on the matter."

Hi Ryan, no news yet from Palm I guess?

That Sony is HUGE

Palmpilotfan @ 1/11/2003 10:26:31 AM #
and there's NO WAY I'd pay $800 for something like that. I can think of plenty of other things were blowing that kind of cash on.

Or...
Lucky Bob @ 1/11/2003 12:48:44 PM #
Yeah, like the new 1 GB Memory Stick! lol

(Why do some people say you can kill two birds with one stone when it's hard enough killing one bird with two stones?)

Bluetooth network access points

rcpettengill @ 1/11/2003 7:46:03 PM #
How about some information on the new low cost bluetooth network access points. I believe that Belkin announced one and that Compex (www.cpx.com) was supposed to announce anotther.

Also what about the 802.11b SDIO card with memory that was announced. Were they demoing it? How does the TT battery life compare with it to using the built in bluetooth?

Thanks,
Rob

Virtual Keyboard

DessertProfessor @ 1/12/2003 7:52:34 AM #
About a year ago Palminfocenter carried a story (http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=3173) about a virtual keyboard, "projecting an optical image of a keyboard onto a surface then detecting whether someone is typing". I haven't heard much about it since. Did you see any products on display at CES based on this technology?

Thanks,
Rene

RE: Virtual Keyboard
Mandroid @ 1/12/2003 2:11:20 PM #
Here's the company that was showing this off at CeBIT back in March:

http://www.vkb.co.il/

I haven't yet heard of a commercial version of this product yet though.

Canesta also does some similar stuff: http://www.canesta.com/index.htm

Both are supposed to be available sometime this year though.

-Mandroid

RE: Virtual Keyboard
Admin @ 1/12/2003 2:28:25 PM #
The company did not have a presence at CES AFAIK.If we ever hear anything more about this technology you can count on reading it here.
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